Sex-Hacking Internal vs External Orgasms - With Kenneth Play and Shameless Sex Podcast #308

All right everyone, it is interview time and we are here with repeat guest Kenneth play. I don't know. Is this the fourth time? Fifth time. Sixth time. I'm not sure.

I love it. I like it when I'm repeat business.

Yes, you are repeat business.

You're so amazing. You're really fabulous. Fabulous what you say.

Yeah. We had decided after episode one we're like, can you come back every three months or so and you can pretty much talk about anything about sexuality. So this one I just want to do a shout out to one of our listeners. I don't know your name, listener, but someone had asked Kenneth to talk about foreplay and erogenous zones and this is going to include that. And we're more focused on internal versus external orgasms and foreplay and neurogenous zones will be a part of that. So if you are listening, thank you for the email and we're excited to dive in. So before we dive in, you all heard about Kenneth in the bio and maybe if you listen to past episodes. Kenneth is awesome. We love, love, love him. Can you please. This is to you Kenneth, not listeners. Tell us how you got to where you are today in the field of sexuality.

Well, I really think I am the world most unlikely porn star sex educator. I was so sexually insecure. I remember in high school I was so worried about my cock size. Now you have to imagine being a immigrant from Hong Kong, moving to the US and like see porn for the first time in American context is like shocking. So I thought if I don't have a porn star, I'm basically like sexually worthless. I was living with this huge insecurity most of my life, but also a really horny kid. So being super sexual, super horny and I somehow dodged a bullet and turning into an angry incel that in my, in my late 20s I found a sex positive community where there is a lot of education and parties and social events and I really found myself and that totally transformed my sex life. And I can't believe I make videos, sex education video and write books about sexuality and hacking and like yeah, here I am today. But it's really about sexual confidence I think, and also pleasure and that's my specialty.

We've had you on before about shows that we talked about anal which were was incredible. And then after your book came out, the sex hacking book, which is amazing as well. And then another we've had you on about ejaculation and this, this particular, this is about internal versus external orgasms which this is a pretty. This Topic is for everyone kind of like anal, right? We can, we can play with it like anal.

Everyone has an ass.

Everyone has an ass, but everyone. There's internal external orgasms, yes, for vulva owners, but external orgasms, I think penis owners could feel those as well. So.

Pretty sure they can.

Yeah, pretty sure they can feel those. So let's talk about the difference internal and external orgasms.

I think that debate's been going on forever between like their internal external orgasm. The most famous one is when for talk about like their internal orgasm is more mature. And then even within the scientific community there's like kind of endless debate and not a lot of consensus around that topic till recently. And one of my favorite sex researcher, when it comes to pleasure and orgasm itself, he wrote, I think the, the best sex research paper I ever read in my life is not dry, it's not boring. It's called the Vagina Strikes Back and it talks about the history of all that debate. His name is Dr. James Faust. He wrote the forward on my book. Like must check him out. So there's endless debate around that. And once I got to really interview him while I was researching my book, he taught me something that completely blew my mind. So if you look at their like neuro, their neuroscience between pleasure, when it comes to internal, external orgasm, it doesn't matter if you have a male body or female body itself. Their neural layout is actually quite similar. So I went on this crazy, crazy process of actually creating those diagram because they didn't exist. Like there's no like comparison diagram between that and between female anatomy and male anatomy. So when I did the layout, I realized that if you look at internal orgasm, there's two distinct nerve fibers. So external sensation, what we feel in the tip of the penis or your clitoris is somatic nerves. So they're very similar to your fingertips or your lips or if you're listening, if you could feel your fingertip. They're very localized and immediate. There's like a direct feedback to those sensation. And then their internal orgasm, their internal sensation or orgasm feels more like a full body as less localized. It radiates, right? And is, is, you know, it could come from the G spot, a spot, cervical, anal, all those nerves are visceral nerves. So they just have different nerve quality that could also induce an orgasm. Right? So then that's why so many, if you think about the orgasm gap, imagine most straight guys, they go on their first date, right? They never have an internal orgasm ever in their life. And that the date tell them, hey, we're not going to touch your penis today. We're just going to peg you and then we expect you to have an orgasm being pegged the first time that you never had that orgasm. So for many people, especially what Laurie Mintz talked about in her book literacy is that external orgasm is quite liable. The somatic nerves are touching the clit externally and touching the head of the penis because they have similar neural layout. But internal sensation require a little bit of a learning curve for most people to learn how to relax into that sensation and how to feel them in order for you to have that orgasm. So but if you, it's really unfair if you look at from like straight couples perspective. I think many straight guys for the rest of their life would feel very fulfilled never having a prostate orgasm like in their entire life. Right. And they're absolutely capable, most of them. But for most women we preach like straight women, we preach that this is, this is a better orgasm. Right. It is definitely different. But what's really fascinating about it is that I think most people learn how to have external internal but also not rank them. So there's no hierarchy in which one you prefer. Just like some, some, some guys would love a prostate orgasm all day and could care less about his penis. Is, is there exists and some, some vulva owner or some women would want to receive penetration only but that is not majority of population. So I love that debate and I can't wait to share all the hacks on how to like hack that two system.

Yeah, I, I love that you commented. I was like, I'll just reiterate. Maybe I have a question in there because I, I like that you said that there's no hierarchy because I have heard certain past sex educators say there is a hierarchy of orgasms. You know, if internal is the way and you know, and that's G spot, G area or cervical. And if you're doing just external meaning like clitoral or like the external area of the vulva, then that's like the, the lower way or less potent or powerful or important. And I hear, and then I also heard you say something about like Yes, I. Obviously when we go inside of the body it's more, it's deeper, it's. We're deeper in the body. So. And you, if you have an orgasm that way, it would make sense why that would be more full bodied because it's coming from like deeper in your core. But I, yeah, reiterating that you're not saying that there's a better way. You know, if someone's just having external orgasms. All good for you. Pleasure is pleasure. And you also commented on why it makes sense why it would be hard for people to have orgasms internally. I'm just curious if you have anything else you want to elaborate on that as I just kind of summarize what I heard from you because I think those are really important messages for people to learn or hear.

I think the deeper understanding I want the listener to get is that the quality of the experience is different because of the neuroscience. So if you think about more of a somatic like you're touching the clit externally or touching the head of the penis, that since that type of sensation and arousal is more towards the sympathetic system. So it's more flight or flight. It's like I need to flick it off, right? I flick one off, I need to jerk one off. There's all this aggressive I want to bust a nut or I want to like get a that energy, right? So the quality of experience is different when you on receiving internal sensation because of your hypergastric and your vagus nerve, it requires for you to be in a receptive state. And we go to roving into foreplay later. Why? Especially when it comes to penetration, we require more receptive state in order for that to be pleasurable. So it's quite annoying. You randomly taking an anal exam from a doctor is not arousing. You know what I mean? Like you are receiving the sensation. But we know so much from when Emily Logowski on her book comments, you all talk about context, erotic context also connected with the physical sensation. So when it comes to internal sensation, I think the debate from many tradition, like from Taoist traditions to Kama Sutra and different sexual practices will highlight internal orgasm because their the full body nature of it. And also there there's a hypothesis that is have less of a prolactin release. So you don't have the refractor period. So you could like come in waves and ways of orgasmic experience. So one is like I finish one cycle, I bust a nut or like I flick one off and then I need to recover and go again. The other one, it could kind of roll one after the other. But that's a preference thing. It's like, it's like how do you choose between sugar and fat? You know, like sometimes I like my ice cream a combination of both. But I think American culture or the scientific community like to isolate something. So we want to separate them too, right? We want to isolate like let's be a vegan or be a carnivore right. They're like I think most people would benefit eating meat and vegetable like depending on your thing. But so I think why we separate is because the science want to isolate a certain thing. But they're two unique experience that people could have and, and I they make beautiful music when you use all the available system and all the keyboard and the combination of those. But the most fascinating thing that I learned about internal orgasm is that it works with the same emotional channels you have. So the more you allow yourself to feel your feelings, like literally your emotion, that's the same state that you have to be in in order for you to have internal orgasm. So the more you block your emotion, like you don't want to feel your feelings or don't want to connect people, the harder to feel that way. So like we don't need to connect people to get into a fight. Right. Like but you have to get into the different state for internal, for internal orgasm you have to feel all your feelings. So anytime the erotic context is off or there's not enough foreplay or you're not in that state of mind or receiving you literally blocking your ability for that energy to rise in your body. And, and I think more straight men could really benefit learning what it's like to get yourself into receptive state. And they would do way more foreplay because once they're understanding. So, so it's fascinating to me but the emotion part is a huge component to internal orgasm.

I so when you're saying that I, I some of my most like full bodied orgasms have actually been more like not fully external but only like the first inch of penetration of some sort where, so there' sort of penetration. So I guess you call that internal. But it's not like for me it hasn't generally been with deep, deep, deep internal penetration. And sometimes it has been but, and so, and I've noticed I was like wow, it's very interesting that I can have these experiences and I can't replicate them. By the way, I'm talking about like the 15 minute witchy orgasm where you're like what is that? Am I on another planet right now? And it felt, feels like you go forever. Those ones, they're like hit or miss every blue moon if I'm lucky. And, and it's based on so many things. But energy is a big part of it. What you're talking about like the safety, relax sensation because there is this receptive state that I'm able to go into that place. So yeah, and foreplay which I think Chip has a question about foreplay for you.

Well, okay. So he kind of touched on foreplay a little bit. Kenneth. So how does foreplay fit into all of this? And the flicking of the, the flick. Flicking of the orgasm, that was something that I held on to. I was like flicking.

I've never heard of no flick one off.

Like, like beating off. Yeah, we're talking about.

Yeah, it doesn't matter if you're like, that energy is the same. It's like, I need to go to work. Let me get.

Oh God.

That's on the sympathetic side. And on the internal orgasm is like this relaxed, trusting, letting go, surrendering, letting things be. So one is like I am manifesting, I'm driving, like making the world work. The other one is like I'm allowing. Right. For the world to happen. Very different energy. You could kind of combine both together at like a mastery level. Right. And you could dance between the two things, but they're very uniquely different.

Foreplay is the essential key component to any type of orgasm in or play in general. I mean, your name is Kenneth Play, so you know probably a lot about foreplay. How do you personally define foreplay and how does it fit into these internal and external orgasms?

Well, it depends on people's definition of real sex. Right. If they think of penetrative sex as the only real sex, then it's like everything before penetration. But when I look at foreplay is engineer to increase arousal. Right. Because you want to be aroused before you do. The sexual activity is much better. Well, although there's like, you know, there's responsive desire versus spontaneous desire. I'm just horny or like I need to be touched a little bit to get horny. And especially important for people in long term relationship where their spontaneous desire is a little bit lower on that curve. And then responsive desire is super important. So most of the time you don't really feel like you're hungry until you smell the food. So you want to make sure you smell the food, but you like, you're not hungry yet, so you don't want to shove the food right in their mouth. So there is a teasing and dancing to drive up like desire and arousal. The second piece is that when we want. You want to prime the nervous system in order for it to really be in the moment. Like when was the last time you enjoy your meal when you're in a big fight, like when you're in Thanksgiving, like you literally cannot enjoy the meal because you are in a different state. So foreplay, you could like, oh, People would say, hey, just do some kisses or hugging or whatever. Like those are the technical side. I think the why is you want to prime your body to be as aroused as possible before you initiate touch because then touch will become immediately pleasurable versus touch being annoying. You know, like this is like annoying and not sexy. And I'm like trying to get in the mood and that doesn't work for most people. So driving up arousal is super important. And the second thing about the receptive part, you, you. In order for you to be in your parasympathetic nervous system, you literally need to feel safe. And especially when it comes to female brain, like you literally want to turn off like Management Inc. Right? And like responsibility. Like I'm not a mom right now trying to take care of my kids and pay my bills and all that. That does not put you in that arousal state. So. But you have to feel safe enough that the world won't fall apart if I let go. So I think the best foreplay is that you could help someone drop in where in this next whatever play session that we have. You don't have to manage like I got this. It's like the sexiest thing before the touching and kissing. So it's a lot of contexting. And then there, there is a warm up period. Just, just say if you like, like if you go to a beautiful omakase sushi experience, they give you the most delicate fish and work their way up. So your sensory input is that if you all of a sudden you're listening to no music and it's quiet and I'm blasting you with music is jarring. So there is a, there's a, there's an amount of incremental increases that is more palatable to each person's body and situation. So, so on the comets you are bar. They talk about the excitatory system, right? So the first part is actually lower the inhibition, right? Feel safe feeling connected. The other one is how fast do you drive up their excitation? Some people as a slow builder and some people could be like two minutes and they could like not, not two seconds. They could be into that high like excitatory state. So good foreplay to me is that you can make someone feel super safe and they're able to drive them up in the pace that their body wants to. Like you know those dimmer in hotels, they don't lower the light in like just turn it off, they gradually decrease. It's the same science. The AM time that light is dim matters to our experience. So it's like how. How fast you increase the value or lower the value matter quite a bit. So that's the technical, that's the sort of the sciencey part behind it. But what I really love like I want to give always listeners some techniques and hacks. So some of my favorite hacks is pressure. So grounding pressure like a gravity blanket, like holding steady. And I'm not talking about you have to hold someone for 10 hours. I'm just hold someone in a. In building some pressure like laying on top of them or they laying on top of you and just holding them like a warm blanket hug for anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds. It really creates a grounding experience for the nervous system. That's one thing. Make sure you have a environment that you're not going to get interrupted. So then again don't have to manage it. So sexy. Like one of my favorite line that I use in bed a lot is that don't manage anything. Like it's really like just hearing that they like I could drop in and then you could start with more central touch or like a grounding touch where you are like not like teenage boy grabby. It's not sexy but like. Like a firm, like a firm touch. And then if you are more on the kinky context owner's touch. I'm touch you like I own you. It could be sexy or I touch you like how I desire you. So there's like difference like sexy energy that you could put into the touch. And I would say that you don't necessarily like go for clips and nipples immediately. It's a good idea.

No, no, no, no, no. Let me just, let me just like. Let's just say that if I'm having sex with someone and I mean sex meeting like we started to make out and you go right for my. Or nipple or clits or nipples. Well I. I mean I think my nipples sometimes clits. We have a problem. It feels like razors or like burning or ticklish or like some. I don't know if you can relate with this April. Like some almost like little ebgb. I know that's my experience when people go right for them within the first minute. Like what do you. What's going on? I need some warmup.

Yeah. Need some more. The nipples feel good. Just slightly added like a soft touch slowly sometimes. But not like a flicking. Not the flicking.

She loves get rid of the flicking.

No flicking.

Although later on when I'm super warmed up, flick away. But like let's talk about it universe.

You know Like I like how Ali Wong puts it, like let's go in like boys to men, like R and B, slow and then and like and as a epic action film. But I think the whole idea is also anticipation. Like if we talk about dopamine system, our what we want something is something that we don't currently have. So if you're anticipating a wanting, it makes the wanting more desirable. So if you do a lot of drive by and hinting, it allows the nervous system to build up enough wanting before you have it. So like the gap between the timeline of like, oh, I want you to want something and really want it bad enough, then I give it to you is more of a reward system. It's like feeding someone when they're completely full or have no interest in food. So. So I think the art in foreplay is about developing the amount of desire, hinting towards their desire and then fulfilling when is like they, when people are yearning and like, like craving it. So creating that craving is super sexy. So teasing any type of drive by. Yeah. And then also people go for nipples and clits too immediately and forget their entire body is also extremely pleasurable if you touch it correctly. So, so it's not like you need to necessarily rush it to genitals or nipples or any of the popular zone in order for it to be pleasurable.

I've taught sex ed classes where I asked the audience like, so what's your favorite erogenous zone? And everyone's like my whole body or like, or, or quizzing people like, what name you know, your top three Rogers zones that you know of. And some people are like, you know, nipples. And some people are like my elbows, you know, the pit of my arm, my neck. And they're like, you know, so it's kind of a trick question because it's different for everyone. So I'm curious about this piece about erogenous zones. And we've heard that, you know, people talk about it, but then there's so many different definitions, definitions of it. So with that confusing message, what are erogen zones? Where are the erogen zones? Your answer might be the whole body because it's different for everyone. And do I need a magical treasure map to find them? And how do erogenous zones and accessing erogenous zones contribute to internal vs external orgasms? Lots of questions.

Yeah, there's some very awesome data that I, I put in my book on like all the different like key spots that you could touch that could stimulate those nerves. But there's also the sensory cortex in your brain. So you know how you touch your belly button and you feel it somewhere.

Else like your taint?

Yeah, yeah.

Do you feel it? I feel it.

But that's, that's. That's beautiful because you feel it in your taint because of your particular neural layout. So for some people their elbow could do the same thing as their belly button, but they're connected to their clit because is where. Which part of the brain is lighting up right? That like hey, this real estate is that if any overlap feels kind of like a sexy touch. So and then the brain is also a learning machine. So for some people like if they have a neck injury from the neck down, they could no longer feel that genital. They could remap their earlobe to induce orgasm by their association and building that, that nerve, that association. So your brain is capable. So some people are wired. So I call it pleasure mapping for everybody. Like you have some like Basel wiring that makes a particular spot more pleasurable. And. And then the pledger layout is literally if you could imagine like obviously every clit or every vulva, every penis is not exactly the same like the diagram that you see in books. And the nerve layout might be slightly varied between humans to human. So like why would one woman like it at one o' clock and one people like it in the pubic mouth? And they're. The reasoning behind it is that the nerve layout is slightly vary. Just like our face is different, we both all have eyes but slightly spaced differently. So one person might be a little bit to the left. So that's why you never use your ex girlfriend map on your new girlfriend neighborhood because it does not work. Because it could give you a general sense, right? But it's not the same because her layout might be slightly differently and the preference might be a little differently. So I think it's really fun. When you have a brand new lover, you could use your historical learning but also map this new person as a brand new neighborhood. And then you remember where you park your car and where the house is because there's a certain spot that is a higher responder. And then you basically have to figure out like I teach this class back in the day how to wow your new lover. Like someone you never play with before. And I hate sometimes sex education become like everybody's lifting. Just communicate, communicate, communicate. But it doesn't really like what the fuck do I do when I'm actually in that situation. So I have a. I have a process where you go down sort of a decision making tree. So when you first Meeting someone and let's assume that person don't tell you shit. And most people don't actually. Like they want you to figure it out. Like that's in some way that's a sexy part. I'm saying that, that, I'm not saying that is the best practice. Right. The easiest practice. I do, I value communication. But let's face it, for, I think for, and I'm sorry, using more like straight context or some of my straight guys, I have more of those experiences. But they're the experiences that my lover wants me to figure it out. Like that's what's sexy about it. And. And as soon as she's teaching me how to touch her, it kind of loses their erotic context. So I, I'm thinking I'm going to go into most sexy situation. Not getting a lecture right on like what she likes and don't like and very vague. So how do I still learn what to do? So the most logical conclusion I came up with with the sex hacking method is use research data and use the most popular one first and work your way down. So imagine yearlope orgasm is. There's a certain percentage of human that could do it. But do you start like spending your whole hour on the yellow? No. Right. Like you go for the external clip because most people do it and then there is like variation in speed, angle, amount of pressure and rhythm. Rhythm is a big one. Like people forget about rhythm so much because there's this process in your brain called entrainment. And it's like when you finally drop into a song, you're like in the groove. Like how many times that like someone is like eating you out or touching you. Finally they get it right, the rhythm is correct and then decided. Then you react to it and then they think that's the time to change something. You're like why did you, why did you. Why'd you change the song? Like it was just getting good. So, so, so the idea is if you go down this decision tree and you try the most popular one based on data and then if you, you seriously like for most people you just need to find 1 to 3 reliable sensation for someone for them to have a great time. Right.

That's super relieving.

That's.

That's not a lot. Like one to three. That's totally doable.

But think about how many different ways you masturbate. Like usually go to a topic not that diverse. You know, like we're like there's a. There's a. We are a creature of habits because it's interesting on the neuroscience side is that like we want to be openness to like to new experiences as James how has put it. But we also. The role of learning is important when it comes to sex because we want to know what's reliable and pledgeable so we don't have to spend time thinking about it because it takes us out. So this is fine balance of go to the most reliable one because it require less thinking and less sensing because it's already there, that pathway. But then you don't want to stuck on doing the same thing over and over again. It gets boring. So it's this ratio of how much exploring and how much I could just like trust that this works. So I love, I love that math and how to figure all that out.

It's. Yeah, it's easier said than done or more. I mean you're saying it's. It's actually kind of simple or easy, but also it's a little complex because balance is hard for a lot of people. Right. If you just gave me like this clear thing. But you're saying it's a balance between multiple things that's a little more challenging for folks to learn.

Yes and no. Like, like it is is complex in the mastery level, I would say. But like look, I am talking about closing the orgasm gap as like most people who want to orgasm get orgasm at the end. So if we're talking about the barrel minimum entry, it just that you have to have provide one sensation that is in a consistent rhythm that that person prefers. I don't think that's a lot to ask. The balance between is like how much do you want to add to your repertoire? Like how many different types of orgasm and erotic context or kinky sex or romantic sex we want to add on top of it. But if you don't, if you can get one arousing situation and one sensation that feels good, I mean so that's the baseline. Then how you built from there is completely different. And I really want people to have a clear answer on how to get to that figure out that one sensation and one erotic context that works for that person. And then if you are also the brain is brilliant because if you know that person provides reliable pleasure and orgasm, your brain wants more of that. So we create this reward system. So if you disappear and unfortunately if you disappear disappoint people in bed, their brain will have this anticipation and this is not going to be very good. Right. It's like a restaurant. Right. Like you just need to wow them. Like wowing Them early is good because it's like, I want to go back and eat that good food again. So it's really about figuring that out early. But I do not think it's rocket science. And we also make it like we, I don't think the people really need their extra intimidation or to compare female pleasure more difficult than male pleasure. The principle is the same. Right. So when you masturbate, is it difficult once you find the thing that works and you keep doing that thing? No. And it doesn't take long. We were talking about like anywhere from 2 to 10 minutes for people to like when they feel like when you masturbate, you have the big three ingredient, right? You have, you have the erotic context. You may be like thinking about something that turns you on. You're watching porn or reading erotica, whatever it is, right? Are you recycling your historical sexual experiences? And then you are, you are paying attention. So you're not like doing something else. You're not like flipping through Instagram. You're paying attention to your own sensation and you're feeling safe enough because you'll have privacy. And the third thing is that you're providing yourself with consistent rhythmic sensation that you like. Like, that's all it takes, right? If you get people to pay attention, something sexy and touch them in a rhythmic continuous sensation, it does the trick. And so I, I, I really want to take back the complexity. It could be really simple, but mastery could be really complex.

So this probably is the same for external and internal orgasms. It sound like, it sounds like they all can align with one another, whether it's pleasuring yourself or if you're attempting to. Because those three things I can align in my own head, like if those things happen, not maybe imagining someone else while I'm in a sexual experience with my lover. Like I'm imagining the porn I'm seeing. Or maybe I do. But with internal orgasms, I feel like for me, those are a bit more difficult because I enjoy external stimulation. So what are your top tips for internal like, like for internal orgasms.

So let me paint a picture. If someone who never have an internal orgasm before and want to explore it or have unreliable internal orgasm, it kind of happened randomly. So here's one of my favorite hack and I definitely cover on beyond Satisfied. So there the trick is that you use your most reliable technique. Just say if you like external sensation. And again, I don't want to separate both. They could happen simultaneously. Internal, external, could simultaneously. But your brain do have to differentiate the two. Like, blended sensation is like Sour and sweet could go together, right? But, but they could say sour and sweet, right? They could be different. The first thing is use your most reliable method of giving you getting yourself off. So if you like a vibrator or you like rubbing your a certain way. I'm talking about female body. So you edge yourself so you get yourself into the highest amount of arousal you could possibly off before you tip off. You know like when you're about to come, everything kind of feel good. Like choke me, slap me. Like everything feels amazing. So we want to get to that state when your brain is like this is really good, anything feels good. And then you want to lower the sensation that you're providing externally and then increase the amount of internal sensation. So you're using your rely your learn reliable external stimulation to drive up enough arousal to get you to the state. And then you lower it enough and then you focus more so not all the way. Then you start losing like the arousal just lower enough that it doesn't tip you over and amplify their internal sensation high enough that eventually if you basically do this, this would tip you over. Their internal orgasm will tip you over. Your brain could learn. So if you, if you own a penis, right? Same exact thing, masturbate with your penis, have an insertable toy on your prostate and as you get closer lower the stroking of the penis and then increase their internal sensation and have your prostate tip you over. Then after that moment you wire your brain to have a reference that I my body could do that. And the coolest thing about those two nerves for, for a penis owner or for, for a guy, just say if you do the edging with your penis and you start the prostate experience and then you lower enough with the penile stimulation and then you get your prostate to come. You could immediately masturbate before your prolactin releases all the way through like before your refraction period really kicks in. And we have like a 30 second, it depends on the person but like a 30 second window if you jerk off vigorously, you could get yourself to have a multiple orgasm or back to back orgasm immediately. So proctor come and the penis could come two different distinct nerves and they could have a back to back same thing if you own a vulva you could like edge yourself that way, have an internal orgasm and immediately turn on your hitachi too high and have a orgasm back to back. And so that's one way to. Because it's two distinct nerve. But female body could have a lot more of that much easier. Like us bros is like he has.

Bros. We're all witchy over here, y' all just bros over there. So basic and, and well, I like what you're saying too is that it doesn't have to be basic too. There's these ways to access different nerves, nerve endings and nerve sets. And then also the piece about how. I mean the possibilities are limitless. And the brain just kind of like habituates. It gets used to something and just like it's getting used to something that doesn't feel good. You can get used to something that feels really good. And this is just before I move on to something else that is kind of similar to penis things. I. You know someone who didn't like nipple stimulation for a long time. My whole life until someone very special reactivated them in. In a non sexual environment. It was an exercise in a sex and relationship coaching training. And my nipples are being touched over my breasts with my. Not my, even my. Beyond my consent. It was consensual. I was actually requesting it. And all of a sudden I was like whoa, they're alive. And I was like. And then I had three clips for a while and then they went away because I got pregnant. But I'm not, you know, not pregnant anymore. And you know, so. But then, so I did this kind of like yo yo thing back and forth of. I don't like this, I like this. And my brain got hooked on liking it and then it went away because then they were razors and then it took a while to get them back and now I like it but it's not quite the same as it was when they were three clits. They're like. They're kind of clit ish but. But I know it's available. I'm like, I'm aware of that and that's beautiful and that's hopeful because I know that my body is highly malleable and I have to feel safe and respected. So anyways, coming back to. I mean this isn't necessarily about penises but you have this concept up premature penetration. What is this? And how can foreplay help with this?

I think there's unfortunately too many. Too many straight women or even. It doesn't matter whoever like to be penetrated, right? They've been prematurely penetrated. They're not aroused enough. They're not ready. The person just want to stick it in and like like masturbate their. Their. Their junk on your whole. And that is not sexy and is not so what I like when most guys worry about premature ejaculation. I actually want them to worry more about premature penetration. Because if you could arouse someone enough and turn them on like all the teasing, all the grounding thing and then when they're like why are you not me? Is a great state to be like, I want you inside of me. So it's not about patient, it's not about waiting. So you could get off. But you get the, the best version of that sexual experience if people are craving like that porn star attention, like please fuck me energy. But you have to get to there. Like you have to get there first and which makes the penetration way more pleasurable. So premature penetration is ultimately that you didn't have enough foreplay for penetration. And then you're trying to use penetration to get more aroused. Which most people will wire that penetration not being fun and want to fuck you less. Yes. So it's not a good bargain. So the goal, and we're not talking about like let's spend like two hours on four place where some people there they could lower their inhibition and get excited in two minutes. Where some people in these five minutes or whatever the amount of time depending on what's happening in life. But it's a worthy investment that because it makes a quality of sex so much better.

I love that, I love that you created that term because that totally resonates with me and I think a lot of people that I know and I love that statement like just me now I need you to me really hard. Like that's. That's like the porn stars or just like I really need you inside of me. Or like I want. Yeah. Like raw and hard and dirty. But if I'm not in that state and we do. You're trying to do that. Oh no, no, no, no. Hard. No. And then my body's gonna be like next time. Nope. No thank you.

No. There's another very important reason is that because like genital arousal, like the total engorgement of a vulva and the vaginal tunnel is so important for that to be fully engorged. It's like, like you're trying to have penetrative sex when the other person is not hard. Like the quality of their penetrative experience is so much better for both party because it's really swelled up. So it's like, it's like is when it's like like prime and juicy and warm and like I actually like, like my favorite foreplay is some like warm up orgasm. It's so much better. Like I want to kind of want to have a couple warm up orgasm because I know that makes a Penetrative sex even better. And it doesn't take that much investment to have some warm up orgasm if you know what you're doing on their under when you figure out that person's like how they like to be touched. And I think you know when you are like you have in the beyond satisfied territory when you, when you learn how to touch someone and I'm serious is not that hard. And then you know how to like they, the more they climax with you, they're more likely to climax with you. So it's like, it's like compound interest when it comes to that. So if they learn how to do that in the beginning like is is you get less effort and more reward down the road. So I think also I think it's just a good strategy for people who have performance anxiety when it comes to their penis. Like staying hard, not coming too early. Like I love Ian's Ian Kerner's perspective where she comes first is really good in a straight couple context that she get a couple of one orgasm before penetrative sex. So you don't have to, you could worry less as a guy like do I need to last long enough enough blah blah blah. So at least you know you, you, you've you front loaded like an orgasm on the other side so you have less anxiety on the other side.

This is the thing you have all of this information and much much, much more and beyond satisfied. It's a sex hacker's guide to orgasms. And well how can people find this book? Because there's so much, there's a lot of the subtitle of what they can get from this book. And we, we love your work. We're. That's why, why that's why you've been on our show so many times. Because every time you're on the show not only do we get so much information from you about a variety of topics but the way that you deliver the information is, is digestible. So it's not just technical and scientific, it's digestible. And so I know folks out there want to buy your book because I love it and it's a great resource that you can have again and again again. So how can they find your book? How can they find you and work with you? We're have you on again. So it's not I'm not going to say goodbye, it's just see you later.

They can find me on can play.com or like my social media handle. I'm building also a beyond satisfied brand so it could be beyond satisfied book.com so you could get the book. I have a special edition which is this one. It has. If you ever watch this on video, like the book looks wet because I did embossing.

That's beautiful.

Yeah. So it's. It's.

I love. And it's available now, right? It's available right now.

Website that you could. So this special edition is on. Their paperback is everywhere. And also I have a new audiobook that is coming out. By the time this episode come out, hopefully I could release it first. I also interview Dr. James Faust. Ian Kerner who wrote she Comes First. Dr. Janna is in there for some extra bonus content that I couldn't cover at all. Like that entrainment rhythm thing that I talked about earlier. I actually get to talk to Ian Koerner a little bit about it and James fan spouse also doing research behind it. Super fascinating, super cutting edge stuff. But ultimately, like I think what I look for as a sex educator is not to just inform people. I'm looking for transformation. So informing people doesn't necessarily help them experience better sex. So what I do is instead of like just giving you the scientific explanation, I like literally have a accompanying video course. I show you literally how to do it in the moment, in context. Like full on explicit version. Because. Because I think it's very hard for people to visualize what I'm talking about until they see it. Oh, that's what you're talking about. So I develop all my educational content. Like you could watch a TED Talk like lecture. Like imagine Steph Curry trying to teach you how to do a jump shot to win the championship. So he does a lecture on the physics of how to release a ball, the timing. And then you see him do a demonstration and then you see footage on how he win the championship game.

That's after he came over to my house though. And we banged it out.

Right.

I was just making sure.

Yeah. So make sure he's the mvp. So it's really important for people to receive their education from this 360 view in one from really to practice it and feel the confidence to execute it. And I taught fitness for 15 years before I did this. And so it's more about embodiment and transformation than just knowledge itself.

I love how your book has the QR codes too. So when you're reading you can go and scan it and then go move forward to your website to go and actually see visuals and there's this technique moving in movement.

Yeah.

And I also do like, because I'm Such a fitness nerd. I do internal representation and external so you could piece it together. Like if I say finger someone and you're like looking at a diagram and it's not moving even if I do the like, like different illustration technique is different than movement. So I have to make like over 80 custom diagram just to kind of nail all the movement down. And more importantly, like since we on the erogenous zone, when we talk about internal sensation versus external, the key difference when, when it comes to internal sensation is that those nerves responds to pressure better. That's why like finger jabbing don't usually work for most people because it does not provide enough pressure for the sensory threshold, meaning the amount of sensation your brain needs to register in order for it to like be something and feel like something. So that's why I teach a lot of squirting things because that technique requires you to amp up the amount of pressure and you're going, oh, hello. Like I, like, like what is this? Like I kind of have to pee kind of feeling that I feel and like I don't know how to feel about it. That's when it's most important. You learn to let go and trust your body that the function is correct, the feeling is good, and then if you attach to like, like squirting ashamed, then you, you, then you back to inhibition. So like that's why I teach squirting a lot because it really, really like framed that lesson really beautifully. So how can you get your partner into the right receptive state where you could remove the shame, increase arousal, and then you apply enough pressure and a rhythmic sensation that that could ride into internal orgasm or combo with external orgasm because you could also rub the clit while you do it.

Well, I use your bear down. You were the one that taught me in the episode that we did about ejaculation, about bearing down and the release, because it's the opposite of what you want to do. And I use that technique all the time.

Time.

And it works. So there's so much that you have to offer. And thank you for being on the show once again and for sharing everything with us. Don't go anywhere. I just, I'm. I'm gonna do a little outro real quick, but stay tuned because Amy has something to share with you that's very importante. I just want to give a shout out to all of our beautiful listeners, you shameless sex revolutionaries. Thank you for loving us. We love you right back. Thank you for listening to the show. If you love us, please go ahead, rate us on iTunes and Spotify give us five stars. We read every single review and we love you and we hope that you love us too. It just helps more people find folks like Kenneth Play and all of the experts and fabulous folks that we choose to have on our show. Also check out our the sponsors that we have. There's only a few every show and they help us feed ourselves and they help us make this show free for you every week. So we love you and don't go anywhere because Amy's got something to tell you.

You.

Oh, yeah. All right. So. Oh, Kenneth has something too. I saw.

Oh, sorry.

I'm sorry. I know this is coming out in Christmas of a Christmas special for everyone. Like my ebook, which you could download anywhere in the world and have it in your. In your favorite apps is only A$99. So 80 off of Christmas. Like if you. If. If budget is a restraint, like $2. I think any most people could do it on this planet. So come check out my. My ebook. And then you could also have access to all the QR code on the ebook. You literally on the picture opens to the website. So I have endless content. There's a really easy way to learn about what I do@kennethplay.com.

Where can you get the ebook?

Can you go get that? But it's 80% off on my site.

So it's on just Christmas Day or.

December 25th is on for the entire month of December. Just go to canay.com for 1. 99. 80% off ebook.

2022, y'.

All.

Happy Hanukkah. It's Hanukkah right now. What? Day 2 Hanukkah. Hey, Mom. Happy Hanukkah. Yeah, April's better at that than I am, even though I'm the Jewish one. Merry Christmas. And all the other holidays. And if you don't celebrate holidays, just go get Kenneth Clay's book because why not? You're going to learn a lot from an expert and it's fantastic. I love, love, love beyond satisfied. And so thank you so much, Kenneth, for coming back on our show. You'll be back in about three months, so maybe we'll have something for the spring. We'll see.

We'll find another Hot Topic survey coming out. So new data, the biggest sample size we have. Like, when it comes to being a size queen, our data set is legit.

Let's spoiler alert. That's what you're gonna get soon, y'.

All. I love a good size queen. And I also actually had some questions about scoring. I Was like not relevant. Amy. Hold it, hold it. So we'll do an episode on that again. Okay, everyone, we're going to do a trailer for you. A teaser, we said. Right? It's a teaser. Or what you call Sizzler.

A teaser. A please. Sizzler.

I like Teasel. That's a Teasla. So we're doing a Teasela for you and it is a trailer. A Teasela Sizzler from our podcast network, specifically from the Body Storytelling podcast. This is. And I'm saying body like B, A W Y.

B A W, D Y. Oh, sorry.

I forgot a letter. Damn it. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Jamie. Glad I have a Jamie here. And by the way, Dixie De La Tour has been on our show before, so she is the host of this podcast. And then she also used to do live events. They're probably not happening right now, but I think that they have been quite popular in San Francisco and Seattle. So episode 112 called the Best dating advice you ever received with body storytelling. Listen to us. You understand why we're calling the best dating bicycle because it's not exactly what you would expect. I implemented her tools and they're amazing. Her podcast is incredible. So as weekly episodes and their personal stories about sex, everything from kink, non monogamy, all kinds of life changing sexual adventures or maybe just like one sexual experience that just really altered someone's being, but they are told in a. A really juicy, awesome, empowered, sexy way. I highly suggest checking it out. And body Body storytelling is part of the Pleasure Podcast network. So it's the network that we are a part of. Chip, how many, how many podcasts are we with? Is there like 15 now?

I believe it's 15 or 16. I could actually probably count if I went on the website, but I haven't done that. So I should do that.

Well, yeah. So our podcast, that's over.

Over the holidays, I'll do that.

Okay, we'll look at that next time. So our podcast network, Pleasure Podcast is full of sex positive podcasts with a lot of different focus. You know, we are shameless sex with a specific focus. Kind of. We're pretty broad, but there's all kinds of really wonderful, amazing podcasts there. You have to check out Pleasure Podcast Network and go and listen to all the podcasts there and shout out to Cam, who runs Pleasure Podcast Network. We love you. All right, Kenneth, Chip listeners, y' all ready for this? What do you call it?

You already ready for bliss?

Are you all ready for Bliss?

Yes.

Here we go.