Adopted at Birth

Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your main host, and if you're wondering if there will ever be other hosts, don't worry, I have big plans for that. If this is your first episode, welcome! So glad you're finally here. If you're a regular by now, I love you. Just a reminder, November is National Adoption Month, so so the main focus is understandably adoption. If there are any questions that you would like answered in an episode, send me an email, or Anchor has this pretty cool feature that allows you to leave me a voice message. Try it out! As you know, I don't like to bullshit, so let's begin. I obviously love all of my guests, But this woman is especially lovely. I've never met anyone quite like her. She's one of those people who's not afraid to walk right up to you and tell you how much she loves your blouse and then invite you to a shindig she's throwing at her house in 2 days. Steph is an adventurer who shows passion in seriously all areas of life. She loves with her whole heart. Here's her adoption story. Hey girl!

Hi! Hi!

How are you?

I am so good. How are you?

Good. I'm so excited that we get to talk about this.

I know, me too. And excuse my nasally voice, I am just getting over this like cold from hell.

I know, what the heck? When did it start? You've had it for like a week.

No, it's been like, it's been like 2 weeks. I know, it's like, well, I got influenza. Like, I know, and then I— and then it turned into pneumonia. It's been a nightmare, but I'm like finally starting to feel better. So I'm like so one of those people too where I'm like, okay, do I get my flu shot?

What do I do?

Right?

No.

And this year I had every intention of getting the flu shot, and it was so funny, and then it was like, bam, I'm sick.

So right, you're like, well Here we go.

I know. So get your flu shot. I know, I know.

Well, other than that, how else have you been? What else is new? What's going on? You got married! You got married 2 months ago.

I know. So I'm like, we're settling into married life. That's really fun, um, you know, and just enjoying our lives and, you know, trying to relax amidst, you know, work and, you know, life and just enjoying ourselves, you know, just kind of taking it one day at a time and living. So good.

I love seeing all of your posts. Your honeymoon looked amazing.

Yeah, it was fun. We had a good time. You know, life is good. I really don't have any complaints.

Good. Well, oh, sorry.

Yeah, no complaints. And I was gonna say, you know, I'm thrilled that you, you know, asked me to, you know, chat with you on your podcast. It's so exciting. I love, you know, your fun passion project that you're working on. But, you know, like this whole theme in the month of November is something that's really, you know, near and dear to my heart. You know, like, yes, I'm adopted, but like, you know, my dad's adopted, my brother's adopted, my brother adopted two kids. So, you know, it's like a— it's a whole thing for us. You know, it's been a big part of our lives. So I'm really excited that I get to, you know, chat with you about this.

Mw Projects. Okay, we are experiencing some technical difficulties, so you get to hear from me already. Let's talk about the Mw Projects. Maya is a super adorable, talented artist who I get to call a friend. We just did a giveaway on Instagram together. If you didn't participate, you definitely missed out. Go like both of our pages so you are always in the loop regarding cool shit you could win. If you are looking for a gift for the holidays, a birthday, graduation, you name it, she's your girl. Here's a little about her business.

Hey y'all, this is Maya from The MW Projects. I wanted to quick tell you about my new business and what it's all about. I started the MW Projects back in September of 2018. It kind of just began as a way for me to get my art out into the world and has been unraveling into this crazy awesome adventure of challenging my skills and meeting rad new people. I do lots of different types of calligraphy and fiber projects. Right now I'm currently focusing on customizing mugs and creating wall tapestries. The mugs can be customized to your liking, and the wall tapestries are the perfect way to add some personality to a room's decor. The best part about it, I'm super flexible and can customize the colors to your liking as well. If you want more information or want to look at examples of what on earth I'm talking about, you can find me on Instagram and Facebook as The MW Projects or send me an email at themwprojects@gmail.com and let's get connected.

I will definitely be ordering a few mugs next week to give as gifts. All right, let's chat with Steph again. I thought of you immediately when I was going to do the podcast about adoption because I remember like sitting down in your parents' basement and you telling me. And do you remember I got super emotional and I was just like so touched? And I just— because I had known you almost for a year at that point, and I was just like, I had no idea. And it was just such a beautiful story?

Well, you know, and I mean, I don't really know when we got cut off, like on the other line or anything, but, you know, like my whole family, like has some affiliation with adoption, you know, and like my brother, my dad, my brother adopted two kids, like I was saying, you know, and it's, I don't know, it's like this funny thing because it's all I've ever known, you know, is like being adopted. And, you know, I remember like being in my early 20s and this woman that I used to nanny for, we were talking about my adoption and whatever. And she's like, so like, how old were you when you found out? Like, when did your parents tell you? And it was like, it was an interesting thing because I had never wondered that before in my entire life. And it was one of those things where I was like, well, I always knew, you know? And then I called my dad later and I asked him And, you know, because it wasn't one of those things where I was like 14 and my parents sat me down and were like, "We have something to tell you." Right. "You're adopted." You know, like a bad joke, right?

Yeah.

My dad had told me that ever since I was a little girl, like a baby, because I was adopted at birth, they had just always told me, you know, like it was just a thing that was instilled in my brain and you know, you're adopted, your mom and dad were, you know, young and they couldn't take care of you the way that they wanted to. And so we got to have you, you know. And so it was always kind of like ingrained in me as like a really positive thing, like a total blessing. However, I didn't always see it like that. You know, like when I was in elementary school and middle school, like, you know, I was kind of a a weird kid in the sense where I really wanted to be accepted and liked. Like, it was, it was just like the biggest thing. And I think that's kind of common to some degree.

Oh, totally. Yeah.

But I didn't want to be like different, right, by any means. And so, you know, the thing about adoption, when that would come up, you know, amongst like my classmates or friends, whatever, it was like something I wanted to keep this big secret. And I remember even like my mom once told one of my friends moms that I was adopted. And then my friend's like, I didn't know you were adopted. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Like, I just, I don't know why for some reason, like I just thought it was this weird thing. And then, you know, you go through like those teenage, you know, hellish periods and then you start to love your parents and see them for human beings. And, you know, I just, the adoption thing, I just got to see like how lucky I really was.

Oh, absolutely. But yeah, like you said, I think as a kid you just want to be accepted and you want to seem, you know, quote unquote normal or whatever. And so yeah, growing up, I feel like if you thought even for a second that you were different, then you didn't want to be, which is so funny because now that we're older, I'm like exactly the opposite. I'm like, I now have totally tried to, to, uh, what is that called? Just like, just love all the things that I used to be like, oh my gosh, I'm different. I don't want to be that way.

Because those are the things that make you you. They make you unique, you know? And, and thank God. Like, I mean, how boring would the world be if everybody was exactly the same or we all had the same story, you know? And, and being adopted is part of my story, and it's something that I've really learned to embrace over the years and I thank God for my parents. I always tell people I feel like I won the lottery in that regard because I could be anybody's kid and I got to be theirs. And my parents are exceptional people and that's my story and how I feel about my adoption. But unfortunately, not everybody feels the same way. Some people have major issues with being adopted. They feel like abandonment or all kinds of emotional issues and You know, it's not saying that I'm perfect and that I've, you know, completely skated free from any, you know, emotional issues. But for the most part, like, I've embraced it, you know, with arms open in my adult life.

Oh yeah, for sure. So was it, was it an open adoption or was it closed?

It was a closed adoption. So the first, the first year My dad wrote letters to my birth mom through the agency. So he, he just would send her like updates saying, you know, Stephanie is a happy baby and, you know, just, and just what's going on in my life, you know, and she never wrote back or anything like that. You know, but he just, he just kind of wanted her to know that like I was safe and everything was going to be okay, you know, but, but it wasn't an open adoption. So I have no idea who my birth mom is or my father. When, when I turned 18, I got some sort of document that said how old they were when I was put up for adoption. It talked a little bit about their heritage, any genetic predisposition for like health problems, mental health. And also like my parents' hobbies and interests, which I thought was interesting. You know, like my dad really liked music and things like that, which is definitely something that's big in my life. But that's all I know. Like, that's all I know. Wow.

And was that ever a question for you before? Like, did you ever wonder about them? Did you ever— or was that just not even important to you, I guess, growing up?

I mean, it just wasn't. And somebody said something to me recently when I had this discussion, you know, that I had no desire to open up, you know, the books, I guess, and try to find out who these people were. And they were like, well, that means your parents did a good job. And maybe they did and maybe they didn't. Maybe I'm just content, but I also feel like part of me is like, all right, I'm really content with my life now. I love, you know, everything, my family, whatever. And what if I opened up, you know, this whole thing and tried to find these people and they had spent their whole lives trying to forget about me or move on, right? And they didn't want to know me. I feel like that could create some sort of hurt that I don't want to deal with, I guess. Does that sound like heartless? I don't really know.

I mean, no, no, it makes total sense. It's almost like, you know, you're thinking of them in a sense of being like, you know, I don't want to bring up heartache if there is any.

And exactly, I mean, like, what an emotional thing to go through, right? Like, this woman carried me in her body for 9 months. Knowing that she was gonna give me away to somebody else. I mean, what a strong woman. Seriously, what a strong—

Totally.

Could you imagine?

I just— no, I really— like, being a mom myself, I honestly, I can't even. Because as soon as you even know that there's a baby there, you know, and you hear the heartbeat and you can see yourself, you know, growing, and you can feel the kicks, you just become so attached and so I mean, I've even like thought about being a surrogate and I'm like, oh my gosh, even being a surrogate, you get so attached to this, this human that's inside of you and you sing to it and you talk to it and you, you know, you're so close for 9 months and then, and then you're not, you know?

Absolutely. And I remember, this is so funny, but, um, remember when MTV used to have those things that was like True Life? You know, those like documentary things. And there was one that was like True Life: I'm Adopted or something. The whole segment was about adoption. And there was one woman that they were following and she gave her baby up for adoption and MTV was in the room with her. Like, mine was different. Like, I went to like a foster home in between for like a waiting period that was by law, you know? So like my birth mom didn't like give my— give me to my mom. My adoptive mom. Oh, okay. You know, it was like I went through a process. But in this MTV documentary, the birth mom handed the baby to the adopted mom, right? And then they stayed in the room after the fact with the mom who gave up her baby. And it was so emotional. Like, I was emotional because I was like, it made me think about my birth mom. And I was like, my goodness, like, how difficult. Like, the, like, the most difficult thing you could ever imagine.

I've been talking with a birth mother just, just in the past few weeks because of, you know, this month and this podcast. And I was asking her those questions. I'm like, okay, what were all of the emotions that you went through? Because obviously, like, you prepared yourself, you knew that it was the best choice, but it's not real until it happens, you know? And then you're like, oh my gosh, you know? And she said, oh, totally. Her her very first one, because she's had 4 kiddos, and the last one that she gave up for adoption, she said that she went through this like whole grieving process. It's almost kind of like, like a funeral, like it's a loss. And so she's like, I was experiencing grief, like so much grief. And I was like, oh my gosh, I never really thought about that. I just always, I guess in my head I always just thought that since they had made that choice, I'm giving my kiddo up for adoption, that they were just like fine. But no, she was like, I still had to go through, you know, loss and sadness and grief and like how I was going to move forward. Even though I knew in my heart it was the best decision, it was still so emotional for her.

Well, absolutely, you know, and like it's just, I mean, you're, you're essentially grieving like a human being, but you're grieving an entire life. You know, because your life would have completely changed the minute that you decided to keep that child, you know, and then you become a mom and all these wonderful things happen. You know, I mean, it's, it's really, it's, it's crazy. But one thing I know that it is for sure in my, you know, situation too is it's, you know, so much strength that woman, you know, has to have. And so, I mean, I guess like going back to our original discussion is, you know, I I don't— it could be a wonderful thing. It could be a really painful thing. But right now I'm content with my life and I'm just, I just don't have the desire, you know, to try to figure out who they are. You know, I mean, genetics are a funny thing. Like, yes, I want to know, like, who do I look like? Do I look like her or do I look like him? Or personality-wise, nurture versus nature, that whole thing. But I don't know, it just, it is what it is. And I'm okay in this moment.

Right. No, I think you're right. I think genetics would be like, that's kind of fun, or to think of like your heritage, you know, where did they come from and who are you, you know, linked to? Because even just more recently than not, not that this has to do with adoption, but I have like felt myself being really interested in like my grandma's grandparents or like my grandpa's grandparents. Like I feel like really pulled to know who they were and what they did because I'm like, I wonder who I'm most like, you know what I mean? Or my characteristics, like who am I, you know? And so I think that that's a cool thing for really anybody. Um, but when you got that packet, did they say anything about like possibly having siblings, or what are your thoughts on that?

No, it didn't say anything, you know. And I don't know, like, I don't know, Chris, like why I just— I don't ever think about it, you know. I just, I don't ever think think, you know, if I have any other siblings. I mean, it's just like, I'm like, this is who I am, you know. And, and funny, Michael and I, so we were talking about this the other night, just, I was letting him know, you know, that I was, um, gonna be a guest on your podcast. And so we just started talking about the subject, you know, and he's like, what about the idea of like blood relatives, right? Like, like, does it ever feel weird to you that like your brother isn't your blood? And I'm so one of those people, even like with my dearest friends, right? I'm like, your family doesn't have to be your blood. Like, they're your family because like they're your family. Like, they're your people. Oh yeah. You know? And like, totally. And so, I mean, like my brother, yeah, he's like, he's my blood. He's my family, you know? And, and I just, I don't ever really think about the possibility of what else is out there for me, you know? And I don't, I don't know. I mean, I know a lot of people who have been adopted who have taken the road to find out their family. And I just don't know what it is about me that makes me not so interested, I guess.

Well, I mean, it, it does. I love what you said about, I mean, you, you choose like your best friends too, and your family was incredible. And you had, you're so close to your mom and your dad and your brother, and you love your nephews. And I mean, They're, they're a part of you, like, whether they're blood or not, they're— they are blood, you know, like, in a sense. And so I totally get it. Um, as far as like growing up, I know we already talked about like a little bit of wanting to like fit in and stuff, but do you think that it like— now that you're older and you have your own little family, do you think that it's, uh, shaped your view on life or adoption itself? Like, do you look at having kids differently, or do you look at adoption differently, or— I don't know, I guess.

Okay, yeah, definitely. I mean, it's something I think about because, you know, since, you know, we're married and, you know, I'm almost 30 and blah blah blah, but like, I think often like, okay, like, my dad was adopted, my brother was adopted, my brother adopted two kids, I'm adopted, like, and we've all been so lucky. Like, is this some sign or do I have some responsibility to continue this, you know, whatever, you know, like this adoption process? Like, do I hold some responsibility to adopt on my own, you know, like to keep this going? Because, you know, we are such loving people, you know, and we are capable of giving, you know, a child in need of a home, like so so much love and a great life, you know, it's something that sort of speaks to me sometimes, you know, or adopting another child from another country. You know, there are a lot of kids out there that need homes. And, you know, so it's, it's— I know, I know, I know people who have said, oh, I could never adopt, right? Like, they're like, I could never adopt, I just want my own baby, or whatever, you know.

Totally.

And I'm like, what's to stop you from loving some child that you didn't carry for 9 months? Like, why? Like, my mom doesn't love me any different than she would even if she would have carried me for 9 months, you know?

Oh, I totally believe that.

I'm her baby, you know? I'm her girl. And, you know, and so part of me, you know, is definitely open and thinks about, you know, adopting just because of my success story.

Oh yes, and I love that. And I Even though I've carried my own two kids, I read this article once about a same-sex couple who adopted this little girl. And it totally touched my heart because I kind of had those questions too. I was like, do other people love, you know, how, how do you love another child who you didn't grow? And I just, I think that I was just kind of naive and I really didn't know. And I, I think I was just like searching for an answer. And when I read this article, one of the men said, I had never loved a human being like I loved her when she was placed in my arms. Like, my whole heart just opened. And I like, when, as I was reading those words, I was just like, oh my gosh, like, whether or not you carry the baby or you don't, like, that baby's yours and you love it more than, than anything. And so whether it's, you know, whether you're the birth mom or whether you're the adoptive mom or a foster mom or whoever, like, mothers just in general, I'm like, they can love. And fathers too. Like, I just— it's an incredible thing that human beings have to love. And even to, like, I think about, or I thought about this, it was kind of a fear of mine as Like I had Lil and she was my baby, you know, and I love her more than anything. And I was like, how is my heart going to grow? Like, am I going to love Stone like as much as I love Lil? Like, what is, you know, what is it going to be like? But it really truly is incredible that your heart just like doubles and you just open, it opens and it grows and it's incredible. And I love that. And that's one reason why I just love adoption is because I'm like, what an incredible gift that you can open your heart so big and you love this little person like they've always been yours. Yeah, like they've always been yours and that's how it was meant to be, you know?

Yeah, I mean, think about like foster families, you know, like these foster parents who bring in like kids from all over the place and so many kids, you know, just because they are. And that, that's how I feel. Like I'm saying, like my family is so loving, and we are capable of loving so much, you know. So why, you know, I mean, that's why I'm like, do I have some responsibility to like keep this going, you know, like to, you know, be able to give some, you know, little, little one in need, you know, the love that it deserves?

Oh yeah, no, I can, I totally understand what you mean. And I even feel, I used to do, I mean, I've worked with kids before, like at a daycare or doing therapy, and I even, like, those weren't my kiddos, but I would be like, oh my gosh, I want to take them home with me. Like, I want to care for them. I want to take care of them. Like, it's just like in my blood, in my body, that I want to like take care of anything that needs caring, you know?

Well, and I'm the same way. I mean, even think about like my, you know, me and Lily. Like, I adore Lily. And, you know, when I was a nanny in college, and I loved those babies like they were my own, you know?

You just—

oh yeah, you become— you just become attached, you know. And so yeah, I mean, it just— you don't— you don't need to birth your baby to love your baby as if it's your own. Like, absolutely not, you know. So I just— yeah, I mean, I think when Michael and I get more serious about talking about having kids, because it's— I mean, it is like, there's so many kids out there that need homes, and we already have so many people on this planet, you know. It's like, it's just something I think about sometimes, you know.

Does that scare you at all to open your heart and your home to, to some, you know, this came up with another person that I was talking about. So she said, you know, I never thought about genetics. I know we've talked about genetics earlier too. She was like, you know, I never thought about how this little person that I was bringing into my home would have her her birth parents' genetics. So like her mom was an addict and I just like never thought about that. And she's like, so then when she grows up and now she's a drug addict, like I— now it's very real to me. And I— does that scare you? Like, is that even a question? Or would you just, as soon as you made that decision, you would just be willing to take on?

Well, I mean, you know, genetics and addiction and all that stuff is a funny discussion because it's really just like my dad says, the roll of the genetic die, you know, because you can be born from an alcoholic and it can skip a generation, or you can be, you know, a rampant wild thing who anything you touch, you abuse, you know? And yeah, it's just, that's just life. You just don't know what you're gonna get, you know? But I think as long as you make, I mean, even my parents, you know, like I, I, you didn't, they didn't know, you know, anything. I think my My birth parents were normal. We don't have any history of drug addiction or whatever. And I was like a wild thing in my later teenage years. And, you know, you just, you just never know. But that doesn't mean that you're going to love your kid any less, even though things sometimes get, you know, difficult at times.

No, and I totally, I totally agree with that. I heard this. I heard this thing one time. Have you ever heard of the Anasazi program?

Mm-mm.

No. It's for troubled youth, and they can go and they basically live in the wilderness and they live off the land and they do certain weeks out there. So there's an 8-week program, 12-week program, whatever. And the guy who started this whole program, I was listening to one of his little talks that he was giving, and he said You know, he's a religious guy and he was saying, you know, I think that the only rule that God, you know, gives you as a parent is to love your child unconditionally. And he said, and that's sometimes, you know, easier said than done. And he said, but like at the very end of the day, like no matter what happens, whether your child, you know, is like quiet or loud or an addict or not an addict or a perfectionist or, you know, whoever they are, whatever they do, your only job as a parent is to love them and love them wholeheartedly. And that totally was eye-opening to me because I was like, you know what, no matter what happens with my kids, no matter who they become, that's my only goal, and that's what I'm gonna strive to do, like, with all of my heart.

Well, and it's almost like a responsibility too, you know, like, you're, you're bringing in this life, you know, and as human beings, we all have those needs, you know, what is it, like, the hierarchy of needs, you know, where, like, one of those is, you know, absolutely, like, love, you know, and yes, and support. And as a parent, you know, I feel like you have a responsibility to continuously love your child regardless. And yes, sometimes it is harder than others, you know, like, it's Sometimes we do break our parents' heart, you know. But if you're one of those people who, you know, it's like, yeah, I love things, but I'm not that nurturing or loving, or, you know, love is a hard thing for you, then maybe you're not meant to be a parent, right? You know, right? Like, maybe you're just, you know, I mean, it's, I don't know. I mean, that's just something I, I feel like, like, like not everybody's meant to be a parent, and that's that's totally fine. And, you know, sometimes people who are, you know, really self-involved and it's hard for them to, you know, love things unconditionally, maybe, you know, parenting just isn't for you.

Well, and I, I know you mentioned this earlier when you, you know, started to get older and you realize like, oh my gosh, my parents, like, they're their own humans, they like have their own life. I, after I became a mother, is kind of when I like, it really opened my eyes. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, my mom, like, she had her own life while she was raising me. Like, she was at one point, you know, she was a 32-year-old, you know, and she was like having her own plans and her own dreams.

And, and a single mom.

Yes, and a single mom, like, working her ass off. And so even just looking back and being like gosh, why do I feel this need to like work, work, work and work all the time and have multiple jobs? Like it's because my mom did and that's what I saw my mom doing and she did like everything that she could to give us a good life and she always, you know, she would work and work and work and she still works and works and like neither of us live at home anymore and so it's just, it's just insane to like think, oh my gosh, like, we're all, we're all our own person with our own dreams and goals, and like bringing it all together, you know, and like syncing up, you know. I don't know, it's just, it's incredible.

I know. And it's, you know, when I think too about— I don't know when the shift happened, like, with my parents, you know, and with me even feeling inside like, hey, it's pretty cool that I'm adopted, like, what a gift, right? Like, where me growing up and being like, oh God, I'm not adopted, like, don't talk about it, big secret, whatever. To me just embracing this, you know, thing about me that I'm happy to talk about, you know, and also I've, you know, it's, I've formed funny connections in life, you know, because I am adopted because it is something I wear so openly on my sleeve. Like even my boss when I was meeting with her when, before I even started working there, somehow it came up in the conversation and she has two kids that she adopted, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's So it's like a thing that's about you and sometimes it reaches other people and then you form these other connections of like, whoa, how cool. And I've met lots of other people out there who are like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. I'm adopted or my mom's adopted or it's not that weird. It's not that uncommon. It's a blessing. It's literally the biggest blessing. And my life is so amazing because of my, you know, my parents' ability to provide and love in a way that my birth parents felt like they weren't able to do. Oh yeah, you know, right? And it's such a gift.

Um, I love how you said that your parents were just always super open with you. It was like very openly talked about and discussed. And, um, Lil, actually one of her really close friends is adopted, and they have an open adoption with her mom, and she's hilarious about it. Like, she'll just be like, oh yep, like, I grew in, you know, her tummy, and like, I drink bottles, so I didn't drink from my mom's boobs. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And she like tells Lil all the time, like, she's like, so you grew in your mom's belly, but I didn't grow in my mom's belly. And that's totally fine. So my mom's name is— and she's just like so open about it, and I love that. And I think that it's so important to be open and honest with your kiddos about everything. And I feel like you just grow up being more comfortable and more open too.

You're just like, it is what it is. Like, the world's a big place with all kinds of stuff going on, and not everybody's, you know, white with brown hair and married to, you know, the opposite sex, you know what I mean? It's just like you just become so open. I feel straight out of the get-go, which is pretty awesome. And I love hearing you talk about Lily's Friend because I love hearing this open conversation that normalizes adoption. And I feel like nowadays it's probably even more normal than when I was young because for some reason I still had this weird fear and anxiety about, like, is it weird? It's different. They're not my parents. You know what I mean? Where now it's like, yeah, they are my parents and there's nothing weird about it. And I feel like if we continue to raise our kids, you know, who are adopted, well, thinking that like, what a blessing, there's nothing wrong with this.

We—

I am your mom and your dad, you know, whatever. They're never going to grow up with those, you know, weird insecurities.

Yes, that was totally the word I was looking for. Like, they're just going to be so secure in who they are, what they believe, and just so much more open to all types, you know, all types of people, all walks of life. It's just— I love that.

Well, and I just— it kind of has me thinking too, though. It's like, well, I wonder how many kids out there who are adopted, you know, that their family isn't having those conversations with them, you know, that maybe they don't know that they're adopted, or maybe, you know, I mean, because it is a weird thing to talk about. Like, it is kind of like— it's uncomfortable. Like, it's a serious thing, you know. Like, but if you do it right, like, I feel like my parents did, where you just instill in your child, like, you're adopted, whatever, you know, it's, it's not a— it doesn't become a thing. Versus, like, sitting your kid down at 16 and being like, we have something to tell you, you are adopted, right?

Because then I almost feel like that's trauma. Yeah. And it feels like your parents have been keeping this huge secret that shouldn't have been a secret. Like, secrets, secrets can sometimes feel like it's a bad thing, you know? And so, yeah, to be super open, then it's not ever looked at as a thing, like you said. Exactly.

And as I was trying to touch on earlier, I feel like there's such a shift, you know, in the world these days too, with like people being more open-minded and accepting towards everything, that even back then, you know, because I was born in 1989 you know, and things weren't as open back then, you know, like they are now. And even before then, like when my dad was adopted, 1952, you know, it wasn't such a thing that I'm sure was, you know, glamorized as being like, you know, my kids adopted, or we adopt, you know, these kids aren't ours, or whatever, you know. And maybe it was a little more hush-hush back then than it is now, you know. Yeah, I could see that being a thing just because of the way that things you know, were back then versus now everybody's like, yo, hey, right?

That is, that is one thing that I totally, I totally love that about this day and age is like how, yeah, how much more people are like talking about things that weren't really talked about and people are experimenting and taking a stand and talking about things, you know. And I love that and I love that we can raise our kids in it.

Yes, and I love too that, you know, we can have podcasts like this where we can talk about who we are and who, you know, we've been and what we've been through that lead us to this moment right now, because somebody out there is listening who is like, yeah, me too, girl. And I feel like that's what it's all about, you know, is like connecting with other people and sharing your story, you know, to help somebody else, you know, to reach somebody else. I mean, what else, what else is it about other than human connection in my book, you know?

Oh yeah. And that is— I mean, that's the whole purpose of this is because I'm like, you know what? I feel like we sometimes shy away from talking about things because we're scared or we don't want to seem weird or we don't want to bring attention or whatever the reason is. And I think it's so important that we, even if one person listens to this and they're like, oh my gosh, I feel this exact same way, and it, it like touches them and it, it helps them, you know. And as long as it's even just one person, I think it's super important.

Yes, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So I'm so thrilled that you asked me to be on your podcast, and this is, you know, a conversation I love to have. And, you know, adoption has been nothing but a blessing in my life. And, you know, I hope people continue, you know, to see the need for adoption, you know, and that a lot of kids out there need homes, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it because you don't have to birth, you know, carry somebody in your womb for 9 months for them to be your baby.

I agree. Well, thank you so much, Steph, and I hope you have a good night. Love you. I love you too. Thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks, girl. I'll talk to you soon, okay?

Okay, bye.

Bye.

If you are listening the Midwest and are currently thinking about, in the middle of, or have questions concerning adoption, I want you to call Jeff B. at Banks McCullen Law Firm in Sioux Falls. He has years of experience in all areas of adoption, both domestic and international. He is also an adoptive parent. Jeff will be able to help with anything you need. He's the best. I put the link for the law firm in the notes as well as the office number. I can't believe this is our second to last episode for the month. As we head into this Thanksgiving holiday where we are surrounded by family, friends, and loved ones, we are reminded how much we have to be grateful for. Thank you for saving space and making time to hear others' stories. I encourage you to connect with someone this week and really listen. Listen with your whole heart. There is nothing more important than genuinely loving each other. It's what makes this life a little more cozy. Love you all. See you next Monday.