Following Your Intuition Even When You're Scared

I'm Kristjana Hillberg, and this is I Fucking Knew, a show where we break down life's unexplainable moments, the times when you knew something was off but couldn't put your finger on it. And when your gut feeling was just too loud to ignore. Each episode features a guest who shares how their intuition showed up for them. These are the moments that change our lives forever. Ready to strengthen your intuition? Okay, so I am so excited that you chose to highlight almost like finding your intuition or coming back to your intuition, because I feel like I can really relate to that. I grew up in a very conservative religion all growing up, and I felt like I was almost taught how to not listen to my intuition. Like, I was taught to always seek outside advice and, you know, go to your scriptures or go here you needed to know, like, what you were doing was correct. And so I'm so excited to hear your story because I feel like I was probably 25, 26 before I actually started to reconnect with my intuition and be like, oh my gosh, I've actually known my whole life, like, certain things. And I always felt like, oh, well, maybe that's just not right because I was taught to go, you know, outwards for it. And so I'm just so excited to hear, like, What kind of made you think like, okay, is there another way? Or was there maybe an instance where you didn't listen to your intuition and you were like, okay, like, I, I have to kind of find my way back? Tell me a little bit more about like an experience like that.

Absolutely. I did not listen to my intuition a lot in my early 20s. I really wish that I had. As we kind of go through my life journey, we'll kind of hear more of how It definitely got me up to some trouble more than once in ways that I'm like, "I really should have known better," and I had those gut feelings and red flags, and I was like, "I just don't have the language. I don't know how to explain what I'm thinking if I go tell people that I'm not going to do X, Y, and Z, that I—" I just don't know. How am I going to tell other people why I'm choosing to do or not to do something? And I think one of the most interesting pieces as I started to think about intuition and how it's kind of shown up in my life is just how much I was not able to also— I also wasn't able to practice it as a young person. I grew up in a very safe community. It was often termed 'the bubble' by the children who lived there, and so we just didn't really get the chance to try our intuition and notice when something was wrong and test it out and try and fail in a safe way. And I would say when I left for college, it all became very apparent that I did not have the intuition needed to stay out of trouble, I guess you could say. And so it was a really interesting journey kind of going through that piece, knowing and just feeling these really strong feelings of, "I should do something." over here, but thinking that my path that I should stay on is over here. And so it often felt actually less of like, oh, I'm doing the right thing, and more of the, oh no, this is super scary. This is a huge challenge. Like, I'm not sure I want to do that, even though I always knew in my gut that it was definitely the right direction, but it was always harder, harder to follow my intuition than I think I would have liked it to be.

No, I feel like all of that is extremely relatable, and I actually want to talk about something you just said. I feel like a lot of times, at least in my experience, when I choose to follow my intuition, it doesn't necessarily feel like, oh, this is it, like super happy. It's more of the opposite of— absolutely, this is terrifying, I'm scared. Like, it's like, you know, but you're also like, okay, this is it. It doesn't mean that it's gonna be like necessarily good or happy. So I love that you like hit that because I've shared a story, um, you know, before where I've said, oh my gosh, it was one of like the biggest times that I had to make a decision. And when my gut knew, it knew, but it was the most scary time, like the most scary decision. And so yeah, I talk about that a lot of saying like just because you're following your gut does not mean it's going to be like, oh, like happy rainbow.

Yeah, it's the complete opposite of like comfortable feeling. It's really when you know. And I think that's actually one of the things that has helped me as I've grown is realizing that when I do feel that level of uncomfortability, starting to notice, is it fear because I should be fearful, or is it fear of kind of taking up space and following that intuition in a direction that is different than what I originally thought. I think growing up I was so steadfast and like focused on what I wanted and I like thought I knew, and stepping off that path in any way always felt so incredibly uncomfortable, like feeling like I'm making the wrong decision, but also somehow knowing in my heart that it was absolutely the right decision.

Yeah, no, that's beautiful self-awareness. And I've actually started to tap into that this year. Like this past year, 2023 was one of those years where I actually chose uncomfortability as like my word for the year. Absolutely. And I was like, okay, uncomfortability can be like a few different things. And so yeah, when I am starting to feel that, almost starting to ask those questions like, okay, is this because it actually isn't the right thing for me, or is it because I'm pushing a boundary, or is it because I'm being tested in a way that's going to help me grow. You know, there's like all of these questions where I feel like before, kind of like how we were talking about of like growing up in a bubble and almost not being able to test that. I— and now I kind of relate as a parent of 3. Like, I understand you want to like protect your own and you want to make sure that they're like, you know, making the decisions that will lead them down a certain path. But In a sense, it's a little bit manipulative because you're not allowing your child or whoever it is to make their own decisions, have that consequence, and then be able to step in and be like, oh, okay, like, this is actually how this makes me feel. So next time I'm faced with the decision, I'll maybe be able to navigate it a little bit better. So yeah, there's so many— navigating can be hard.

It can be incredibly hard. You go off to college and you no longer have your parents and safe space and like, everything changes and the people you meet. I think one of the things that I found super interesting about thinking back on my early years is that I just don't think I had realized that there were, in a sense, sharks in the water. Like, I think I had really thought everyone had the best of intentions and there wasn't anything to think was going wrong. And wow, did I learn the hard way that that is not true. And I think that that's something that until you've had the chance to practice that over and over and over again when meeting new people or even people that are evolving within your life, being able to see and feel that gut instinct of something's not right. I might not have the words for it, but it's important to step away. There are a number of times like that where I go, wow, okay, I wish I had realized earlier.

Yeah, have you ever seen that movie Taken by Liam Neeson, or like Liam Neeson is in it.

I think that's my parents' like biggest fear is that I'm like off traveling and I'm going to be taken by someone. Or even my husband is just like, oh no, like she's never gonna realize what's going on. I'm just walking down the street. And I don't know if I've seen that one in particular, but yes, I, I definitely can relate to the, the having a family that really wants to protect me, but also realizing that that's not always the most helpful for me long term. I've done a lot of learning. Yeah, totally.

That is such an intense movie. And I remember watching it probably, I don't know, like late teens. I don't remember when it came out. I feel like forever ago, but I remember watching it and being like, that is me. Like, I am 100% like, sure, I'll take a ride from you. Sure. This is our hotel. Yeah. And like, not really think further about it. And so, yeah, it's like trying to find that fine line now as a parent to be able to, like, educate my children, not terrify them into something, but also be like, hey, you know, in a situation like this, you have to, like, assess these things and also listen to yourself. Like, is this normal? Is this, like, stereotypical that someone would ask to take you, you know, somewhere? I don't know. It's just— I just remember watching that movie and being like, I know nothing about, like, I don't— self-awareness. Like, I feel like I would just, you know, so long kind of relied on that safety within the community of like, nothing will happen to me. Or I was basically just kind of given that narrative that like, you're safe here. Um, but let's kind of go back to like when you first went to college and you said like your eyes were opened because, you know, you had grown up here and you went to college. Let's kind of talk about like your experiences there and how you— how it led you to meet, you know, your partner and your spouse and just, yeah, let's start there. Absolutely.

I look back and I just sometimes have to laugh because I think sometimes it came across as being ditzy or just like not really understanding what's going on. But I think it was more of that I often didn't have the language for it or I didn't know what necessarily to be looking for. But there are definitely some funny times where I ended up in situations where I was like, huh, like, how did I end up here? One of them is that one of the first groups of people I lived with outside of college or outside of the dorms was a group of people that I had met through my engineering classes. And I was like, this is great. They seem like really nice, very sweet people. And then we ended up all moving in together and there was all 4 of us and they, they had made the assumption that I was religious and I wasn't. And I, it didn't even occur to me to ask them if they were. And so I remember for Christmas it was this kind of goofy situation. They were all giving each other Bibles and I, they gave me hairspray and I was like, okay, this is, this is a unique situation to go, go be in. And they're all asking, oh, like, do you want to, do you want to go to church with us on Sunday? And I'm like, No, that's just not really my thing. And so it was so funny. We just like, I think we made assumptions about each other that we just like, or we didn't ask some important questions as well. And so it definitely created an interesting environment. And then the next year after that, I went on to go live with another set of friends. And that was, that was a group of people that I had known from the very beginning of school. Like they, they had lived in the same area the dorm room as me. Like, it was friendships that were easy, I think. And I think that that's something that so often happens in that first year. Like, you meet so many different people and everyone kind of finds their group and they kind of all huddle together and get through things. But I really wish that I had listened to the gut feeling earlier that I should have branched out and kind of found something else that was more more my style, that like fit me better. And it really wasn't until someone else had kind of come into the friend group that really wasn't treating me well. They were being a bit of a bully, more than a bully, honestly. And I was just like, "Wow, I'm really not enjoying this. I don't want this." And I remember this one particular day in the summer being like, "This is the day that this all changes." and we were at my family's cabin and I— there was just this moment and maybe it's because we were no longer on campus, the location had changed. I— maybe it's because it was really hot out. I don't know. But there was just this instant moment where I was like, when I get back to Corvallis, when I get back to campus, I, I'm not going to be relying on this group of people anymore for friendship. And I think that that was just so eye-opening and amazing. And that was actually one of the few times, as much as it was incredibly challenging, it also gave me the most breath and helped me feel the lightest I had felt because I just knew that I was finally going in the right direction. And it wasn't what anyone expected of me. I think everyone, including professors, expected me to stay friends with this particular group of people and one person in particular, and it was like, No, like I'm, I'm going to go do something different now. And wow, has that led to such a different life. And I'm so grateful for it. I, I'm, I'm so grateful for that piece of intuition. Damn, do I wish I had followed it earlier, but I'm very glad I did it. It's what led me to meeting my now co-founder, Jesse, and then moving down to the Bay Area and meeting my husband and all these different like snowball effects that really happened from that. That one day. And there was even a song that comes on the radio occasionally where I'm like, that is what we were listening to on that day. And I just like, it brings me back to this moment of like, that, that was the moment that helped to get me to where I am today. And I'm so grateful for it. I love that.

And I also love that audio can do that. I have songs like that that like totally transport me back to a different time. Yeah. And I felt that same way before of being like, why couldn't have I realized this a little bit earlier? What was, you know, why did I have to sit in that for a little bit longer? Why didn't I see it? But yeah, I totally think that, you know, the woo-woo side of me is like, you know, even in like the hardest times, it always ends up like at the exact right time. Or maybe I just needed it just a little bit longer, like to marinate it, to give you that like It was just a hot day and the sun was bright and you were like, okay, it's time. Um, but I absolutely love that. Okay. So what was kind of like your next step into meeting, you know, your, your partner for the business and how did you guys meet and how did that— tell me about that connection.

Nice. So we had already, I had already known Jesse through classes, like our, our engineering classes were relatively small. And so we all kind of knew each other, but stepping away from that other group really allowed me to meet more people. And spend more time with other people, get to know them better, and find more of the people that I really wanted to be around. And also just like go explore different things in college, whether that was ballroom dancing or taking— we tried a pottery class where you like set everything on fire. And I just— fun! Like, it was so crazy. It was like— none of my pottery turned out well, just to be clear. Like, it still doesn't to this day. But we just— we got to try things that were just so different. And I think that I never would've branched out and had those experiences if I kind of let that previous group of friends kind of mold and craft my life for me. And so this was really me being able to step out and go, okay, I wanna try these different pieces. And one of them had to do with entrepreneurship and pitching in front of a group of people. I mean, that was so cool. And, um, I really enjoyed being able to look at that and go, okay, like I'm, I'm just gonna try something out of my comfort zone. It's kind of what got me interested in it, but I would set it down. I think a lot of times as I realize and look back, my intuition, it would, it would show itself. I would go, maybe not right now. I'd set it down and I'd, I'd come back to it in the future. And I think the more I feel able pull towards something, the more I'm like, okay, like, this is something I should eventually go towards. And I've even allowed myself the time sometimes that it takes to step into it in the future when I feel more ready. And like, I kind of really appreciate being given almost the time to think and process that, okay, this is something I want to do. I'm not ready yet, but I hopefully will be in the future. Yeah, I love that.

It reminds me of— gosh, what is that called? Have you ever heard of the book Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert? I haven't. Oh my gosh, it is such a beautiful— I cry like every chapter, of course. And I was listening to the audiobook that she transcribes herself, and she's just so animated. And there's just something different, right, about hearing like the author transcribe her own words. And it's really just about creativity can be in every aspect of your life. And it doesn't have to look like art, like it doesn't have to look like you sitting down and drawing or painting or whatever. And it really is just such a, such a great, emotional, amazing book. And she does talk about like, our ideas are meant to be executed, and they come to you as like, like they're yours. But she does share this one story that, that she had an idea and she kind of just sat on it and kind of sat on it. And then she kind of like did a little bit with it. And then she would like sit on— she was like, I'll get to it later. I'll get to it later. And then she met somebody, um, a colleague later, and it was a book that she was writing. And the colleague was like, oh my gosh, I just started writing a book. And she was like, oh my gosh, tell me about it. And the— her idea or her book idea was literally Liz's idea that she hadn't done. And she was like, so what I'm saying is I think that our ideas, like if we sit on them long enough, they jump to somebody else who's gonna execute them. And it just really like sparked this thing in me that I was like, okay, like I've definitely had ideas where I execute and like even if the product comes out or, you know, whatever it is and I'm like, meh, at least it was like out of my body and I did something with it. And then there are ideas that I've had since I was, you know, a younger person and they, I've just kind of like set them aside. And it is kind of like a cute thing to think that like that idea may have like made its way into somebody else's brain that knew it was gonna execute. Um, but anyways, that just made me think about that.

And like, I think that's actually really cute. And I think that especially when it comes to the company we founded, I think like to, to step back. So Jesse and I, we were in our bioengineering senior project class and we were asked 'What are 10 things in the medical field you want to change?' And we all go about our lives and we come back and tonsil stones ended up being at the top of both of our lists, which was absolutely shocking to both of us. Like that was one of the moments where it's like, if we hadn't been asked that question, to this day we would not know that we both have tonsil stones and we stick different things down the back of our throat trying to get them out. Like we just, it was, just one of those moments that really was quite incredible there. And we were like, okay, like, we want to work on this. And we had a professor who was like, I've literally never heard of this. Could you not work on this? And we were like, no, we want to work on this. And so that's what our senior project ended up being. But we still decided to set this down multiple times. We would pick it up, set it down. We weren't sure how to take it forward. We didn't know about how to manufacture, about how to go through all of these different pieces that it takes to build a company and bring a product to market. It really— we, we were engineers. We were wanting to think about how do you build something different and do this better for a group of people who were really struggling and needed help. And I think we— it was probably the business side of it that we were like, wow, like That's the piece we didn't learn, we didn't know how to do. We could figure out a lot of the other pieces, but I think there were a lot of times when we were like, well, it would be really great if someone else took this on. Yeah. And I think there were a number of times in my life where I've realized, okay, someone else hasn't done it. And at some point we have to step up ourselves and create the world we want to be a part of. And so I had practiced that a number of times in my life in different ways, and this is probably one of the biggest ways that I've done it. It's the most responsibility that I feel like I've taken on for a topic that I'm advocating for. And there are definitely times when I go, "Wow, okay, I do kind of wish that someone else had made it easier. And Jesse would always joke, why can't we find this at Target? Like, there should be something for tonsil stones. Like, we love Target. Like, we want to go there and like just have someone else have already fixed the issue. And I think that the more time I spend in society, the more I realize that it's actually up to us to fix the issues that we see. And so I, whenever I have an idea of like, okay, something that I want to fix in the future, I will sit down and I will write, write out all my thoughts, all my ideas, and I might not get to it immediately, but there are things I'll probably get to in the future that were those ideas. And to what you were saying about how ideas can go from one mind to another and it eventually reaches someone who will take that initiative, we definitely had people reach out to us and they were like, "Oh my gosh, this is ingenious! Like, I always like wanted to like find a way to do something for this," or So glad someone finally did it. Or, um, that's nice.

It's a nice validation. Yeah.

Everyone else was also thinking, damn, there needs to be something better for this. And so that was one of those pieces where it's like, wow. Yeah, it does eventually find someone who figures out how to take it to that next step. And it definitely took us moving down to the Bay Area, being, working in different startups of different sizes, different types of medical fields. Um, and then when I worked at a, a company that was doing 3D printed medical devices, like, that's really what kind of helped take us to that next level, because it was like, oh, like, we could test this with 3D printing. Like, that's awesome. And so I— we didn't fully jump on it until, until we felt ready. And I think that that was kind of a really interesting piece and journey to it as well. And 10, 20 years ago, I don't think would've been the right time, honestly. I mean, they stopped doing routine tonsillectomies in the 1980s. And so the majority of people who have this issue are between their teens to their forties. And it, when we found out it impacts women more, it was like, wow, okay, that's even more of a reason to feel inspired to work on this. And so we just had this constant pull coming back to this issue and It wasn't until 2020 that we officially launched and we were like, okay, we are actually going, we are actually going to do this. This is real. We're gonna figure it out. And we've just kind of figured out each step of the way and it's been uncomfortable the vast majority of the time. I mean, I think that's really the main thing that I've taken away thinking and processing about my intuition is that Wow, is it not— it's not comfortable at all. It really makes you step outside of your comfort zone. And I'm still glad I'm doing it, but wow, it really, it can be taxing sometimes. And I think that it really also takes a fair amount of self-care to go, okay, I'm gonna do something that makes me feel very, very overwhelmed sometimes, taking on more than I might feel like I'm ready for. But when you find right topic or problem that you want to work on, it definitely makes those challenges well worth it.

Yeah, no, totally. And it reminds me, you know, even just thinking back to your story of when you left your friend group, you know, sometimes when you follow your intuition, it looks completely backwards to everybody else. And so to stay with it and to keep pushing. Yeah. Is also sometimes where that uncomfortability comes from because like you said, people could be like, what? Like, this isn't you or why? But, you know, This is so hard, why are you choosing this? So yeah, that's just like a testament to, you know, your character and being like, no, like, I know myself and I know what I need to do. And yeah, I've practiced it now for years that like I know what happens when I don't listen versus when I do. And even if it is, you know, a process that takes a little bit, you know, to like sit on, you're still moving in the direction that you, that you know you need to go on. Absolutely.

And I think that for anyone trying to decide like whether or not they're going to kind of take that next step, it's really thinking about are you ready for it? You'll never be 100% ready for it. And realizing that you'll— you have the potential to be so much happier on the other side when you are kind of following that like gut feeling. It's like you have that for a reason. Keep going, keep trying. And I think the biggest thing that made it easier for me to follow my intuition really was realizing that it's not gonna feel better or easier right away. It comes later. And the more I've followed that and gone, "Okay, like, I'm pretty sure I'm going in the right direction," the better I've felt long-term. And I think that And I think that's kind of what gives me the inspiration to like keep going and keep trying this out and keep, um, kind of listening to some of those gut feelings.

Yeah. Do you guys seem to always be on the same page when it comes to business decisions? Has it almost been like, you know, she's had a gut feeling before that you've just had to trust, or vice versa where you're like, I know this, or this is how I feel and she's kind of had to trust you, or does it truly feel like Yin and yang. Like, tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah. So I would say that we really just got to be so creative when we were going through the process of like, okay, like, what is this going to look like to solve this problem? There isn't really anything out there that's specifically designed for this. Like right now people are using their fingers, bobby pins, ear cleaners, chopsticks, you name it, like all sorts of things that they shouldn't be using. And so it's like, please stop. And so we were really able to go through this in a way where I was like, okay, like, what are all the different things we want to see? And we definitely had different design ideas of like how to go through this. But I think that it really came down to this realization that there are so many different products that need to be designed for this issue. And so we really started with the one that was in a way easier for us to figure out how to go get manufactured because there are other things where it's like, wow, like this one thing that we thought we'd be able to figure out is so much harder than we thought. And even when you bring on other people who you think are able to like go tell you, oh, this is how it's done, even they struggle with it. And so there's no one that like 100% knows how to do what it is we want to do. And so as we kind of went through it, it was like, okay, like, let's figure this out one step at a time. And, um, I think that it's kind of fun to be able to also trust another person's gut instinct. I, I definitely— there are times when it's like, okay, like, let's go for it, let's see how this goes. Whether it's my co-founder or my husband, it's one of those pieces where it's like, okay, like, this is something they want to do and I, I will back them for it. And I think that that And that's an important thing to be able to do because if I'm having a super strong gut feeling myself about something, I would definitely want the important people around me to also support me in it. And so I think that's one of those pieces that's just really interesting. We definitely have pulls towards different things in our lives and being able to support each other, and that is incredibly important.

Yeah, that's such great advice. I feel like it's been a little bit harder for me. It's funny when I think about like, you know, Kurt telling me something or having like a certain feeling, I tend to like push for my own way. So it has taught me, yeah, to be like, okay, let's look at this. And like, it's okay to also, like what you said, like trust somebody else and be like, let's do it. Like, I, I totally trust you too. So yeah, it's been a little bit, um, I think because I went so many years, like 25 years, without even really being in touch with it or even necessarily thinking about the word intuition or like your gut feeling, um, especially because in the religion we were taught, we were taught that it was like the Holy Ghost, like it was like, you know, a prompt from like still an outward person prompting you. And so I think when I first started like discovering what my intuition was, and I feel like this in my life, is like I became a pendulum swing where I was like, well, now I know my intuition and I'm not going to listen to anybody else because my intuition will tell me. So yeah, it's been kind of an interesting process to like witness myself like pushing, you know, pushing against that and like allowing myself to be like, it's also okay, you know, to like let somebody else in, to trust somebody else's intuition every now and then.

But yeah, it's I, I remember with the first house we bought, it was a one-story house and my husband's like, I want to put a deck on the house. And I was like, okay, like, cool. Like, you want to put a deck in the backyard? No, I want a two-story deck. So like, it's like, wait, what? Like, and so he's like out there in Canva, like making all these drawings and like calling these different people to see if they can and like help him bring this vision to life. And I'm sitting there being like, they've never done this before. This is very odd. Like, what on earth is happening? But wow, did we end up loving it. Like, we would sit out there and watch the sunsets, the sunrises. Like, it was beautiful. Like, it was so cool. And there was this area, like a pathway that goes by, and people would walk by, and everyone loved that deck. Like, they were like, this is so cool. But I remember, and initially just being like, what is he thinking? Like, this is so weird. But yeah, I think the more we kind of let people in our lives to be creative and kind of bring some of their different visions to life, it's like, okay, I'm actually super cool with this. I love being able to think outside the box, and it's, um, truly one of the most fabulous things. It really inspired a lot of other people in the neighborhood too who wanted to do it, and I was just like, oh, that's great. Right. So just something different. And I think that it's— there's so much there that it takes to learn to be okay with that and like trust that other people are there. They're doing what they think is best. And so finding a way to trust them in that is pretty cool.

Yeah. Yeah, that's really great advice. Let's kind of switch topics a little bit and talk more about like, say that somebody is listening to this and they are wondering if they might have tonsil stones. Like I— to kind of talk a little bit more about like, how did you figure out that you had them and how was it like affecting your life? Like if someone's listening and they're like, what is this? Like, let's just kind of talk a little bit more about that.

Okay. So tonsil stones are the calcification of food, mucus, and bacteria that form in the pits of tonsils. Not everyone has pitted tonsils, but those that do have these little things that form and kind of look like a white-ish, yellow-looking nerd, like they're kind of odd looking, but wow, do they smell. Like, these things are incredibly— like, they, they are pungent and it is visceral. Like, it is something else. It like can permeate a few feet out. And when they get bigger, you can start to feel them in the back of your throat. You might have— it kind of feels like a popcorn kernel that's stuck back there. If you open your mouth, you might see little white spots back there and you're like, oh, there's a tonsil stone back there. Not everyone knows what to call these things, so maybe you didn't know. Maybe you spit one out on accident or something, and— or accidentally swallowed one and didn't understand what they were called. Um, it's actually called a tonsillolitholith, which I can barely say. It has so many I's and L's, and it's just like, this, this is ridiculous. So most people call it a tonsil stone, but we've really heard people call them all sorts of things. Tonsil rocks. My favorite one is throat peanuts. So when someone told me that's what their family calls it, I was like, oh my gosh, I absolutely love that. So everyone kind of calls it something different, but overall the main sentiment is that these things stink, they feel super uncomfortable when they get big enough, and they're really hard to get out. And people typically will use their fingers, the bobby pins, Q-tips, Q-tips, any form of ear cleaner, just all sorts of things under the bathroom sink or kitchen sink. And the creativity is probably the thing that I love most about these people because they, they hate these tonsil stones so much that they are willing to just go to all lengths and be creative to get them out. And it really does make me want to give people a better, safer option to be able to use. And so There are just so many fun stories, I think, as well about this topic, ones that are heartwarming, funny, but also just realizing the way that this impacts people's lives. I mean, my husband will walk up to me and be like, "Hey babe, I think you have a tonsil stone," and it's like, "Oh, okay, cool. Thanks for letting me know. I'll go handle it." But we also know other people who don't tell their husband what they're doing, and they're in the bathroom for 20 minutes trying to get these things out, and they're like, What is she doing in there? Yeah. So there are all sorts of different experiences. We've had people tell us that they accidentally spit one out on a date and it's just like, oh no, that's not good. And other people who have told us that as they've gotten older and they've gotten arthritis, they can't get the bobby pin back there to get these things out. And so there are just so many interesting stories. Like I even went to the optometrist lately to go get my eyes checked and my doctor was like, "Yeah, I'm the tonsil stone queen." And I was like, "Wow, I love that. Okay." Like, people just have such an interesting kind of experience with this. And like, now that there are a lot of videos on TikTok and this is starting to be talked about more, it's really kind of cool to see all the different ways that people are starting to have conversations about this. Because when we first started and looked into into this issue, the number one thing people would tell us is they thought they were the only person that had tonsil stones. And so that's why that moment with Jessie of us both being asked that question of like, "What are 10 things in the medical field you wanna change?" And having tonsil stones on our list, like if that hadn't happened, even though we had been friends, like we never would've known that we both experienced that. And so you really end up with this this kind of odd situation of this being something that affects at least 10% of the population. It could be closer to even 20% based on X-ray and CT scans. And so you have this massive amount of people dealing with this issue that people aren't talking about, that isn't in the oral care aisle, that they're not seeing that other people have. So you I've had people who think they're the only person, and they're not. There are so many people struggling with this issue. But it is really fun to kind of hear how the younger generation is dealing with this. There are a bunch of teenagers that'll get together and have little bathroom parties getting these all out together. And it's like, "Wow, that's such a different experience from what I had where we were just not telling each other about this." And so I'm, I'm very curious and excited to kind of see where this goes in the future. But it'll definitely be— it'll be an issue that is recognized in the oral care aisle in the future. And I hope to be a piece of that advocacy making that happen. Yeah.

You saying that this generation coming up, I think, is— they're like breaking barriers for the way— absolutely. Communicate and talk and say no. Like, it's just very, um, yeah, they seem to be following their intuition way better than we did. Nope, this doesn't feel good. But, um, no, I think whether it's tonsil stones or really anything that feels maybe, you know, something that you wouldn't necessarily tell somebody else, like, I think that you can feel whether, you know, like I said, whether it's tonsil stones or something else, can kind of put you in this space of like, I'm the only one I'm the only one who's dealing with this, or I'm the only one that has this. I don't want to talk about it. It's embarrassing. And so, yeah, I love that you are also like becoming a loud voice in this space and talking about, you know, how it does affect you and how it can affect confidence. And yeah, just like normalizing it. I think that that's something that is really important and I see more and more of it, of even like normalizing that we age and it's okay to get wrinkles and it's normal that people have tonsil stones and it's not like all these things that I think, you know, have been just kind of like not talked about for a long time. I just, yeah, so excited to see like where this conversation goes and all the people that you impact. I mean, already having people reach out and be like, oh my gosh, this is the product that like I've, you know, about or something. And I think I shared with you, like, I don't think that I had tonsil stones, but I definitely had like inflamed tonsils. I got them out when I was 15, but I remember like getting strep all the time and like getting huge, you know, like pustules. And I remember like my mom was a hairdresser and she had these combs that had like a really long end with just like, you know, the comb on one side. And I remember like like getting back there with that. Yeah, like it's just like anything you can find to just like alleviate pain or whatever. Um, and so it's just so wild that like you telling me this story and like us connecting, I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is so important. And things that, yeah, like I would never have told my friends that I was standing in the mirror like shoving things down my throat. Totally. So I love normalizing that.

I think I think it's so fun when like people will start to kind of share their story and it's like, okay, like you have this instant kind of connection of like, wow, we both know what we've been doing for like several years. That is kind of crazy. But I think that the normalization piece is, it's just really inspiring to be able to be a part of. I mean, we're a group of people trying to help and impact what ended up being way more people than we ever would've guessed. I think when we first started this, we, I don't think we would've guessed it would be at least 10%, if not 20%. Like it's really changing and the more people grow up with their tonsils, the more tonsil stones there will be. And so just that realization of the impact that it's having on people and their relationships and friendships and family and just whether or not they feel confident to go do a presentation, or maybe they were offered a mint by a coworker and they're all embarrassed now. I mean, everyone has a different coping mechanism. Some people bring gum with them everywhere they go, or mints, or they are checking on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. Like, everyone has a different way to handle this, but smell is such a visceral, visceral kind of like gut feeling in and of itself. And so it is important, especially for young people who are dating or in relationships. I mean, even myself and my husband, if he's like, oh no, like, I definitely think you have a tonsil stone. And it's like, okay, like, I'll go handle that. Like, it's important. It's— our breath really does matter. And sticking objects back there that were not intended for our tonsils is definitely not a great idea. But when you look at mouthwashes and other things that have sometimes been recommended, it's like, mouthwash isn't going to get it out. Like, you, you actually remove the source of the stink instead of just kind of masking it. And so I think that what we really appreciate about what we designed is that It makes it super fast, easy, and it's safe. And what used to take us 15 minutes to do now takes us 30 seconds. It just completely changed how we view, view this issue. And I think it's also so interesting just how much people have a hatred for these things. Like, we don't hate our teeth. We don't go and like get our teeth taken out in the way that people will go and go get a tonsillectomy to deal with this issue. And we just like, we find other ways to manage it. We brush our teeth for 2 minutes morning and night. Like, it's how we manage it. But we haven't been given solutions for tonsil stones to be able to do that. And so it just makes people so angry. And I think that's a really interesting problem to be able to solve for. So I'm really enjoying that journey. Yeah, that—

no, I just I love this and I love the path that you're on. And it does remind me of, you know, of thinking like something that can make you so angry that you almost— there's no solution. It makes you feel hopeless. It makes you feel like this is something that is always going to be like a massive thing in my life. And yeah, that can already take you kind of down a road that, that makes you feel alone, that makes you feel ashamed, that makes you feel so— yeah, I love Again, I love this idea about normalizing it and being like, we have a solution that's actually going to make your life like so much— like this, this, um, problem is simple, you know, like it's simplified. It is, exactly. Um, so absolutely love that. As we wrap up, you already kind of shared, but I mean, everyone has a gut reaction or a gut feeling a little bit differently, and some people like to sit on it, some people act immediately. Did you have any advice for somebody who's, you know, trying to tap back into their intuition? Like, do you have any advice on how to kind of push through that scared, uncomfortable feeling?

Yeah, I would say that it's start to kind of notice where do you— where you feel pulled to. Like, where are you pushing back? Why are you pushing back on it? But for me, it's— I definitely sit on things a bit longer, um, but I think For me, it's the pull, that constant pull, or anytime the topic gets brought back up again, I'm like, "Wow, I feel really inspired or passionate about that, but maybe I'm feeling nervous about moving forward with it." And I think just kind of taking note, tallying like, "Okay, this is one of those pieces that keeps coming back to me, it keeps popping up again." And I definitely have a lot of different ways that that shows up, I think I just kind of— one of my mentors explained to me that our life, it's kind of like chapter books. Like, we get to look at each different piece. We close certain chapters, we open new ones, and I kind of think of those gut instincts as something that will most likely be a future chapter book, and I find that super exciting. I love that. And even though I'm not ready to work on it right now, there, there are these pulls that I know I will be pulled to work on in the future when the moment is right.

Oh yeah, that's great. I love that, seeing patterns and like being curious about it. And yeah, like getting it all out. I also find that therapeutic for myself. If there's something in my brain, I love to just get it out. Sometimes it just needs to like leave my body, and then other times, yeah, I will go back to those things and it'll be the right time a little bit later. So yeah, I absolutely love That.