The Times That We Just Didn't F*cking Know

I'm Kristjana Hillberg, and this is I Fucking Knew, a show where we break down life's unexplainable moments, the times when you knew something was off but couldn't put your finger on it. And when your gut feeling was just too loud to ignore. Each episode features a guest who shares how their intuition showed up for them. These are the moments that change our lives forever. Ready to strengthen your intuition? So I don't typically give context into the guests that I have on the show. I've done it before, but I intentionally do that. But today I feel like this deserves a little bit of context. Delaney hired me to be her operations business manager a few years ago. That's how we first got connected, which is so hilarious to me because because I am not Type A, like, at all. I am a creative. I am just— I can be organized for any of my clients listening. I can be organized for my clients. When it comes to me, it's very difficult. Or when it comes to, like, coordinating calls, I don't know why the fuck that's so hard. But anyways, Dee put up with my shit for over a— I mean, a year and a half. And in that time, through that time, we became super close friends. And she is one of the funniest people that I know, and being with her is basically a laugh fest. So when I had this idea to do an episode that was more focused on times that I was not tapped into my intuition, that I was kind of just reckless and was still learning how to listen to myself and what made sense for me. I immediately knew that I wanted her to be the guest because she just gets me, and it was so such a fun episode to record, and I hope that you enjoy it. Okay, I have been dying to do a podcast with you that was just unscripted, no fucking topic, just like whatever comes up. So this should be fun for us because we haven't recorded in like a year and a half, 2 years.

Long time. Oh yeah, I'm so happy to be here. I fucking love you. I fucking knew. I fucking loved— I fucking knew I loved you, and I still do. Um, no, I'm excited to chat with you. I think, uh, you know, there's a lot that we can share when it comes to times that we were kind of tapped into our intuition, times that we were maybe ignoring it, times where we just truly did not know because we were so disconnected with ourselves. So yeah, and wherever this goes, I am open to sharing whatever comes up.

Oh my gosh. And by the way, you're the one who helped me land on my podcast name. Do you remember that? Like sitting outside on your porch and you're like, what do you say all the time? And I'm like, I fucking knew. And it just landed. And ever since then, I swear, every time that I'm in a conversation and I say it, I always think, oh, Dee helped me with that. Like, I don't know, it's just like this cute little nostalgic thing.

It is so nice. That was such a fun weekend.

That was such a fun fucking weekend. But for this episode specifically, because I feel like a lot of the time when I say I fucking knew, it was always this— it was always like a precursor or something that like I just knew inside of my gut. So I today want to share a story where I had no fucking clue before or after, or really like years after, until I started learning more about myself and starting— started to get more in tune with myself. Because I think for a long time I was just numbing. Like, I didn't want to have to think about anything. I didn't want to have to make, you know, quote unquote good decisions. I just wanted to be. And so this story has never been told, and you get to be the first one to to hear this crazy experience that I've had. So can't wait. Remember back in the day when everyone was using Craigslist for everything, like furniture, whatever? I decided that I was going to use it for like women seeking man, and not even in like necessarily a, I want to find a life partner, but like I want to have sex type of situation.

And how many years ago was this?

Well, 33. So 13, 13 years ago.

Were there dating apps yet or no? You were just like, fuck.

Yeah, I don't think— I don't think there was dating apps. Like maybe like the old school ones, right? Where you knew like your best friend's mom was on like Good Harmony or whatever the fuck it was called, right? But not like, yes, harmony, harmony, good harmony.

Perfect.

But yeah, no dating apps. There was just Craigslist. And dude, I'd use Craigslist for so many things, like getting a roommate or finding a table. So I was like, this place—

finding a date, that's interesting. I mean, it doesn't sound problematic. It sounds like you're just resourceful.

And you're like, well, this is an efficient platform. Like, you need something, you fucking go to Craigslist. So got on there my very first time using it. I was actually living in Florida at the time and it had worked. Like, I met this dude, 6'6", massive football player, and all I was looking for was just a good sex sesh. Like, that's it. And this dude delivered. So again, I think that that just like in my mind, I was like, fucking Craigslist, man. Like, it's the place to go.

Oh yeah.

So I was brand new to South Dakota, didn't know anybody besides my aunt and uncle who were Mormon. Like, What was I supposed to, you know, like I wasn't going to go to them for dating advice. And so I was like, well, Craigslist has proven that it is a trustworthy place and I'm just going to, I don't know, woman searching man again.

I love how you were surprised that it worked. Of course it fucking worked and it worked. A man showed up on my porch and gave it to me. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, keep going.

But you know, not all sexual encounters are like fulfilling.

True.

But this one was. So I think in my head it was like that connection of like, okay, Craigslist sexual encounter fulfilling. That means every sexual encounter will be fulfilling. Absolutely not. I mean, should have known, but get on Craigslist, have like a couple inquiries, right? And like, went with the, went with the one that felt at the time. Obviously my intuition was completely off because that one felt the most like, yeah, like this makes sense. But let me just tell you what made sense, which of course this was 13 years ago, so I'm sure my brain doesn't remember like every detail, but I think he was essentially like older than 21, which is great for me because I was 20 and usually looking to also have like an adult cocktail whenever I was going somewhere. So I was like, great, you can buy booze. And he's like, come over to my house, like we'll keep it low-key. Oh, which should have been red flag immediately.

But of course you didn't get murdered. I mean, you could have gotten murdered so bad immediately.

Like immediately.

Yeah.

But because of Florida experience, I also went to the guy's house because you know me, like I don't really think things through. I'm just like, Sure, I'll come to your house.

No problem.

Let's do it. So hadn't had a bad experience yet and didn't think I'd have a bad experience this time. So he was like, I'll grab, you know, whatever you want. And it's later on in the evening. So we don't have to do dinner or anything. I'm like, perfect. Like, don't want to have dinner with you. Just want to have a certain kind of experience. Right. So get to his house. I don't know, I'm like 10 and he has booze, and we're sitting there and like chatting. It didn't really feel super— I don't know the word— like I wasn't connecting immediately with him. I felt like I still had to, I don't know, like gumption up, like, oh, and where are you from? Like stuff like that.

And you weren't connecting with the stranger? That's weird. First of all, I just picture like your posting of like being among like white farmhouse chic hutch on the side of the road available. And then it's like pre-loved rollerblades. And then it's like a nice midnight pounding. Like, I, I so badly really want to see what your original posting read.

I fucking wish I had it.

What was the— what was the title? Do you remember, like, the posting title?

Probably like, ex-Mormon girl trying to explore her sexuality. I don't fucking know.

The tagline of a novel. This is so good. I was— okay, keep going. I'm sorry. So you're there, you're not connecting. It feels not as fun as that other dude.

Not as fun.

Yeah. Okay.

Not as fun as the other guy. So already I'm like, God, Craigslist. Anyway, so we have been chatting for several minutes at this time. I'm like downing these beers. And he's like, have you ever watched porn? And I'm like, brand new ex-Mormon girl. So I'm like, um, maybe twice, like maybe. And even then, like, it was more of like, what the fuck is happening in this video? Because I had never once seen a porn video and was always told that it was a major sin. So I'm sure when I was watching it, I was feeling like, terrified that I was going to go to hell. And so all these things I'm thinking of right now and I'm like, I see, you know, trying to like act cool. And I'm like, you know, yeah, like I've definitely watched porn before. And he was like—

calling it a porn video definitely gives it away that you were not a regular consumer.

Watched a pornographic video in the past. Yes. Thanks for asking. And he was like, well, Would you be open to watching one? And of course, because I truly am always up for like exploring whatever, you know, whatever.

Sure.

I was like, sure, totally. That sounds great. Let me just crack open my fifth beer for this. And he was like, well, what kind of porn are you into? And I'm like, well, whatever, whatever. Like, what are you into? Let's start. Let's start there. So he opens up like this girl-on-girl schoolgirl, typical, whatever. And we're watching it. And the video is only the girls like sucking on each other's tits.

Okay.

That's it. There's like nothing else. And the video goes on like that for like 5 minutes. And it's just them like touching each other's boobs, whatever. Yeah. Which I'm not, not into. I was like, sure. Like, this is nice. Right. Can you, can you imagine some of the other pornographic videos that he could have introduced me to?

Like, right.

He was going easy on me.

Pretty mild.

And pretty mild. And after about 5 minutes, he looks over at me and says, I have never sucked on a tit before. And I was like, really?

Wow.

But of course I didn't think it was. I thought he was telling me the truth. So he's like, I've never like, and I'm thinking, well, lucky for you.

Like there's tits right here.

Yeah. Like what? So I'm like, well, do you want to practice? Like, do you want your very first experience to be right now? And he was like, acting like that was just like that. He wasn't already expecting me to do that. He was like, yes, right? I would love— are you sure? Like, it was very— it was a consensual thing, right? He was like, I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable or anything, you know, just like, only if you want to. And I was like, Well, sure, go ahead, go ahead. And sure as shit, he just like, kind of like the video, just like pulled up my shirt, did his thing for like a few minutes. That was it. Like, didn't try, you know, because you're in an encounter, like that's where you start and then you move forward. But there was definitely no intention of like moving forward. It was just the act. Of his very first tit suckling, and that was it. And then he pulled up my shirt and was like, okay, like, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And he was just like, you've had a few drinks, like, feel free to just sleep on the couch and I will go into my room. And I was like, how thoughtful of him. And he wasn't like asking me to go into his room with him. And he was just like, good night. I was like, great, good night. But I was thankful because I really had had 5 or 6 beers and I could definitely not drive. Right. And I slept on his couch, woke up early and left. And on my drive home, I'm just like, huh?

Like, wow.

Was he being serious? Like, if he, you know, like, did he— has he never really ever like touched a boob? And like, lucky him. Like, I had like double Ds. Before I had kids. So I was like, damn. And like, I don't think in my Craigslist post I had put a picture. Like, it's not like he knew that I had boobs. And like, what? I think I was just in shock at the whole experience. I never told anyone because I was mortified, first of all, that I did this. Like, it was, it was like in this sense of like What just happened? Like, I kind of felt violated, but absolutely not in the sense that, like, he was very kind and it was very consensual. But then that was it. And like, nothing. Like, I didn't get the pounding that I had been hoping for. Like, you know, so that you attract down.

Were you attracted enough to him to have sex with him, or were you like glad that it didn't get to the point where you were like, had to say no to that?

He was definitely not like, not compared to the Florida dude. Like, the Florida dude was like hot, and I was very happily like willing to have sex with this dude. This guy was like, he was like kind of tiny, like almost my size, if not a little bit smaller than me.

Yeah.

And so I don't know, it's not that I wasn't attracted. I think I was just in shock of like the whole time. Like it was just kind of like, yeah, we're not really connecting, you know, like you, at least for me, if I'm going to have sex with someone, I probably have some sort of like attraction to their personality or.

Right.

You know, whatever. But yeah, there was nothing of that. But then I almost felt like, well, this poor guy is 24, has never sucked a boob. Like, you're— here you go, like, I'll be the helper.

Oh my God, you out here.

So that was—

oh, it's interesting because like, I— to me, that, that, that kind of experience, I would almost start to spiral of like, what is this guy hiding? Like, this seems like serial killer behavior, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, because I'm like, I'd rather like, I don't know, be like, the guy is trying to go for that. I'm like, no thanks. And then it stops and it's awkward. But it's like, you didn't even try. So like, what are you— what are you doing in that room? Like, what's going on afterward? Once you suck on a boob, are you like— I don't know, are you making like a doll out of like human hair? Like, I don't know what you're doing in there, but I don't trust it. And maybe that's a problem that we just don't even trust people who are respectful in a weird encounter, right? That's probably like, no, we've been conditioned to be like, men are fucking, you know, they're gonna go for everything all the time or whatever, and just expect that you gotta play, you know, defense all the time. And that's their nature. And maybe that's the problem, is that we don't trust the people who just wanna suck a tit, right? Like, Maybe that really should be the new norm.

I just wish though, like, probably— I mean, obviously now that I'm older, yes, that dude has sucked a tit, if not many. Like, if— especially if he's on Craigslist. Yeah, I'm sure he was like, probably as a fetish, maybe, right? So he was just kind of— that was like his thing, which is totally fine. Yeah, then just be upfront and like have a category in Craigslist under fetishes for like really loves sucking boobs. Like, if anyone's interested, please hit me up. Because, you know, there's crazy shit out there, fetish shit, where there's like, oh my God, Joe Santa— I can't remember his last name— Sanagato or something. He does— he used to do that. Like, he used to do the Craigslist fetish stuff, and I would laugh for hours because it'd be like belly button here, like urine from the full moon shit. And so I'm like, this dude could have totally fit under that. But you know that there's people seeking for that. And I probably would have landed on it at some point and been like, up for this. But it's different when you go in knowing that that's going to be the situation rather than going there with like an open mind of like, okay, we're probably going to have some drinks, we're going to have sex. That's it.

Maybe he's got like one of those baby fetishes where he dresses up like a baby in a diaper afterward, like he sucks the teat of his unknown mother and then he goes into his basement and then he puts on his diaper and like crawls in a crib. Or something. You know, maybe there's something else going on that you just saw half of the fetish and then the other half happens behind closed doors or something.

Listen, like, I'm willing to believe this dude already that he's never sucked a tit, that like, if he would have just told me his fetish, I'd have been like, can I burp you? Can I change your diaper? Right? Like, I'll help you with this, dude. Like, what do you need from me for the next 45 minutes? And then I have to go. But like, oh my God.

Wow. Wow. I mean, you really, you really put yourself out there. That's, that's one thing that you really, you really like, you know what, uh, time to catch up on all the experiences I didn't have. Everything from, yeah, Craigslist tit suck to who knows what's next. I'm sure there's been a lot more things that you've tried. And, uh, hey, you gotta do what you gotta do when you feel like you have to try. Yeah. When you feel like you're making up for lost time, it's like anything goes. You know, like, yeah, it's kind of a bummer that Craigslist has fallen off.

Like, I'm wondering if there were too many creepy things that happened that people were like, we got to get rid of this crazy fucking platform because it really was like the Wild West on there. Like, you could post about anything for anything. Do you remember? Were you ever on there?

I was on there for like looking at things for like to buy from a garage sale. So yes, definitely was on Craigslist just for very different activities. Um, maybe like looking for a roommate. I think Craigslist was like, you know, that kind of thing. Um, if you wanted to sell something or barter or whatever, but no, definitely did not do the Craigslist, uh, fetish dating situation. But I was on like, when I was doing stuff, I was doing a lot of like, um, OKCupid. Um, OKCupid was the hot spot for me. I found a lot of boyfriends on OKCupid. I don't know what it's like now. But it was like OKCupid and Plenty of Fish and Tinder was kind of popping off, but OKCupid was definitely like my, my go-to, my Craigslist, if you will, was OKCupid.

Oh my God. I love it.

No.

And it's just like wild thinking back and being like, what in the actual fuck? Cause there were many red flags and also just thinking about at different times in our lives, like especially mine. That my intuition totally was turned off. And some of it, I think, was like, yeah, probably, a, because I was fucking curious, because I feel like for so many years of my life, I was always just shamed for fucking doing anything, like letting my boyfriend even think about touching my boobs. So when this guy's asking this, I'm like, sure, like, let's try it, because everything else around my body always felt really shamey and icky. And so I definitely a pendulum swing in my life where it was like nothing to like everything. Like, you name it, I, I will try it because I have no idea what to like relate it to. And nothing ever felt like a red flag to me because I didn't know what to look for. That makes sense, right?

Oh my gosh, it totally makes sense. Totally. Yeah, I feel like with my dating stuff, I felt similar in the sense that I was trying to catch up for lost time because I was in like a 4.5-year relationship from a very young age, from like 17 to like, I don't know, 22 or something like that, on and off kind of. And so when I got out of that relationship, I was just like, I just want to date. I don't really care if I'm feeling the person or not. I just want to meet people. Have experiences and, and all of that. And, um, wasn't even— yeah, I kind of was of the mindset of like, well, I followed like, uh, the feeling of like feeling in love with somebody, and it didn't really work out very well because the relationship was not great. So maybe you're not supposed to feel that way. Maybe you're supposed to just kind of feel like, whatever, I could take it or leave it, you know? And maybe that's how people get into relationships that actually work. So I was really like a lot of those experiences trying to force myself to feel or like the person or stay with the person, even if I wasn't feeling connected to them or attracted to them. Because I'm like, well, maybe this is like a healthy, normal thing that you're not really supposed to feel like too intense feelings for somebody because maybe that's how you always end up in a crazy, toxic, unhealthy situation. Yeah. So I can relate to just making up for lost time and being kind of down for whatever. I mean, I went on a date with like a guy who like, you know, only rides motorcycles. I'm terrified of them. I was like, fuck it, I'll ride a motorcycle with this dude, you know. Um, just things that I wouldn't normally probably have been likely to try in the, the dating world. Um, God, there's, I mean, there's so many, there's so many things. I was just kind of, I blew through a lot of dudes, literally and figuratively. I used to set dates up like they were interviews. I would go to the same little cafe and I would schedule all like my OKCupid dates. I would do like a breakfast, lunch, and dinner in the same day with 3 different dudes. And in between my dates, I'd go to my car and change my look up a little bit. I put like, you know, if my hair was down, I put it in a ponytail, put some new lipstick on, maybe change my shirt or put a little jacket on because I kept going to the same place. And I'm thinking maybe they won't realize it's me over and over again. With a different guy. So yeah, you know, I tried to be efficient about it, having like jam packing my experiences. And then, you know, some people turned into boyfriends and some people didn't.

And, you know, was there any like a completely wild experience where someone said something or offered something where you were just like immediately, what the fuck?

I did. Okay. So there was one situation where the guy showed up. He did not tell me that he was from Germany, so he had a very thick accent, which is fine. He had a very thick accent, showed up. And so I was like, oh, it's interesting that he didn't like mention that. And then he quote unquote forgot his wallet. So I had to pick up the tab for the date. And then he asked if I wanted to go have sex with him in his helicopter or his airplane or something. He had like a private jet or something. And I was like, no, thank you. He's like, what about a second date? And I'm like, no, this This date did not go well. There will not be a second date. So that was kind of an interesting one. There was a situation where I didn't realize that I had met the guy before. Like, I, I was doing so much online dating that apparently, I don't know, like a couple of years before what I thought was the first time meeting him, we went on a date and it just like, well, I wasn't feeling it and we just kind of, I kind of maybe ghosted or fizzled out. And then years later, we messaged again or something, and we went on another date. And again, didn't like the person. He thought maybe I had a change of heart or something, and I was like, I've never met this guy before. And so kind of fizzled out. He's like, well, how did you do this to me again? I'm like, what? So that's really bad when you're like, you're dating so much that you don't even realize that you've gone on a date with the person more than once.

Yeah.

Or we had connected on a It was something of that nature where like I probably should have known that I had met him or connected with him in some way and wanted it to just kind of fizzle out more than once. Like, oh God, what are you gonna do? So I, I was kind of, you know, I wasn't the most connected person to myself, but probably wasn't great for other people either. I was kind of unknowingly being quite an asshole. Um, and then Oh my gosh, this was not too long ago. One of my friends was on a dating app and showed me the guy that she was going to go on a date with. And I was like, oh my God, I think I recognize him from like doing stand-up or whatever, right? And we must have been on shows together or something. And then it turns out that no, I had gone on a date with him and also forgot about him too.

Oh my God, Dee.

I know I'm not proud of it, dude, but like, this is where my head was just like, I, I'm just doing my own thing. I'm dating. I'm also like, I'm not wanting a relationship. So I, my brain obviously just didn't think it was important to like keep this, to retain this information of who I was, who I was meeting and who I wasn't. And, um, but apparently it came out on the date that I had gone on a date with him and we had even kissed and everything. I mean, again, not proud of it, right? But, you know, it was a few years in between, or actually maybe actually longer than that, several years in between.

So I'm like, oh my gosh, again, I'm not remembering that I went on a date with this person because I mean, also like LA, like I'm being a little bit judgy about it, but LA is different than fucking South Dakota where like, you know what I mean? Like there's maybe 80 people that I, that were like in the network, whereas for you, you're probably meeting people all the time, especially at your shows. Yeah, so I'm just like, that could ease—

yeah, I was meeting—

not memorable.

Every single night I was going on dates, it was just new people overload, you know. And so I— and I was so focused on trying to figure out what I wanted to do for my career and figuring out my own stuff, and I wasn't looking for anything serious that I wasn't like— I just, you know, if I go out and have fun for a night or a couple dates or something. It's just not— I don't know, it's just not really top of mind if I run into them again, I guess. I don't know.

Um, totally. I had one time I was working with multiple— I don't know, maybe like 15 colleagues— and it was— I was using Tinder at the time, and I ended up kind of dating a guy from Tinder, and he ended up coming because I was not coming, coming, but, you know, coming to the work. And, um, the one of the guys after he left was like, you'll swipe right on him but not on me. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, like, I, I've— you've been in my whatever the fuck, like, right, I swiped right on you. Yeah. And I was like, oh, hahaha. But I I felt so awkward. I didn't know like what to say. I was just like, oh yeah, that was probably an accident or something. And then it was just like this awkward thing because I didn't want to be like, oh yeah, I usually only swipe right. I'm very superficial on there. Like, it's not like I fucking know you. I'm just looking at your face and I'm just like, am I attracted to this person? Because when you don't have that and that face-to-face connection with someone where you're just meeting them for the first time, it's hard not to just be superficial. Like, okay, I'm only looking at your face. I either think potentially I could or no. And like, I guess you were one of those nos, but like, not because I don't know you and think you're great now, but right when I saw your face a couple of months ago, it was definitely a no. Like, that sounds bitchy, but at the same time, I'm just like, that is the app, right? Like, that is fucking the app. You don't swipe right on like potentially I could like them. Like, no, you don't know.

Oh my gosh, that reminds me when I got into a Lyft, a Lyft, you know, I was, I was— my gosh, I think I was actually Lyfting home from like somebody I was dating's house. And the Lyft driver mentioned that, you know, he had swiped right or whatever on a dating site on me. And so he like basically thought I would recognize him and kind of started chatting like we had talked on there or something. And then basically told me, and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't even take a freaking Lyft without being everybody.

Why?

Why are you being an asshole to me? I was like, oh my gosh. So yeah, those things, it's tough. Like you said, it is very like one dimensional. You're seeing a few photos and maybe some fun facts and that's kind of it. Um, I would do things— I mean, my approach to dating back then was very much just like, let's get off the app as soon as possible and just go meet for coffee or a drink or whatever, a snack in person. Like, I don't want to go do this back and forth texting thing. I think now if I was like to be on them at some point again, I would try to roll it over into like a FaceTime chat for like 15-20 minutes before meeting somebody in person. Because I do think you could get a feel for that before—

totally—

before you spend like an entire hour or whatever in person with somebody. I think you can weed it out a little bit that way. So, um, but they didn't have that capability, uh, back when I was on the apps. They didn't have like the, the video chat built into the app yet or anything. But I would definitely do that before like, you know, making plans and meeting somebody and then not feeling like you can leave a date. Although I did leave a date early one time where, gosh, it was just really weird vibes that this guy with— I met him at a bar and he just was saying some very offensive things as we were getting to know each other. And I was like, this guy, something feels off here. And then he took a phone call in the middle of our date and was yelling at the person on the phone. And so I was like, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Then I was in the bathroom, like, okay, I'm just going to— I want to say something to get out of this or whatever, because he'll see me leave if I just take off or whatever, which I wouldn't give a shit about that now. I would just have left. But, you know, in my early 20s, I cared a lot more about what people think. And I just got back and I was like, I'm going to— I have to go. I have to go early. Something came up, kind of a thing. And I thought he was leaning to try to, like, hug me goodbye or whatever. And he was leaning in to try to kiss me over this table. And I was like, no. Not, not interested in that. Thank you though. You know, great meeting you. Best of luck. That kind of thing. But that's the only time I left early and I think it was like maybe 35, 40 minutes into the date. So it wasn't even that abrupt.

Good for you. I think that like, and as I now have 3 kids of my own, like talking about all of those things, because I think for me there was so much about like people pleasing that came with it. Like make sure they're comfortable, make sure that like if they ask about something like you don't want to be like a disruptor, right? Or you don't want to be like the person that's causing some sort of scene, which is just so funny because anymore I do want to be that person, right? Like, I do want to be the person that's like calling you out for your bullshit. And just like you, like, now I would totally walk out and feel no reason to give any sort of explanation.

Exactly.

Yeah, but definitely, like, I remember even like second or even third dates I would say yes to, not even necessarily because I thought anything was going to come of it, but because I almost felt this like, well, they asked me and I should say yes. Like, that's the nice thing to do. But then I would almost get like ridiculed for it because it's like, you were leading me on. And I'm like, but I wasn't though. Like, I felt like, I don't know, it was just like such a wild time for me because I was trying to figure out like What is— what— how do I feel when I am just upfront? And how can I handle this situation? Whereas, like, asking a friend just, like, didn't really do much for me because every single friend is different. Every single friend is going to handle it differently. And so for me, it was like, okay, does it feel better if I just say, like, yeah, like, I'm not really feeling this, like, I'm glad we connected, but that's that. Or do I really just want to be like, don't like you, you know, like, I don't want to lead you on, but this is not going well, like, I don't want to— yeah, ongoing. But yeah, it was just such a learning experience for me to be out of the religion dating, and also dating after a marriage where it was kind of like a totally different vibe. Because at that point, there was certain times where I was just looking for what I was looking for before on Craigslist was like, I just want to fuck somebody tonight. Like, that's it. That's it, period. And like, I don't necessarily care if I like you. I don't care if we really have a conversation. I just want to like have fun for one night and like, that's it. But then after that, like after a few months of that, then I was like, you know what, the people that I want in my life, I actually do want to like them and I do want to have like some sort of connection with them. And also like, it's not just me anymore. Like it's It's my little one. And so if I am going to be serious about dating, then, you know, I need to be choosing people who I actually enjoy and who I think I vibe with. And oh my God, I'll never forget this one guy. I was like so into him. He was like, checked all the boxes that I thought, you know, a partner should check at the time. And he was like, listen, love spending time with you, love like our one-night things, but like, that is it. Like, I want nothing else from it. Like, I would never marry a woman with a child. I would never. And I was just like, okay, like, thank you so much for being super transparent about that. And I think we hung out maybe like 2 more times after that, and that was it. But yeah, it was refreshing to have somebody be so honest with what they were looking for, and that was it. And it was— so it kind of made me feel like, you know what, if He can be so honest, like, why can't I do the exact same thing? It was kind of like an expansion, an expansion moment for me because I think for however many years, you know, I had just always thought like, it's your job to make sure that everyone's comfortable and like feeling good. You don't ever want to hurt someone's feelings. So like, just take it easy. Whereas after that I was like, oh, you can like be direct. And he wasn't mean. It definitely was like, oh, sad, because I liked him. But it was not— it felt like kind of an empowering moment for me to be like, oh, you can be like this too, right?

Oh yeah, I think I did a lot of— I tried to be direct when needed. But if I feel like I didn't have to be and the same result would happen, I tried not to. Like, I tried to be more people-pleasy. I also was a little bit nervous because I'm like, I don't know these dudes. Like, I don't want to piss one off and then like be in danger or something, you know what I mean? So it's like that kind of like survival kicks in of like, if they ask you on a second date and you're by yourself because they walked you to your car and nobody's around, it's like, what do you say if you're uncomfortable and you don't want to go on a second date? Uh, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a lot that, you know, we've had to think about as just far as our safety goes. And so for me, it always felt way safer to end something via text versus in person, depending on how much I knew them. And, you know, if things could just kind of fizzle sometimes without us having to talk about it, great. Or if they kept asking and, you know, or they asked a couple of times to go out, then I'd say like, I'm, I'm just kind of feeling a friendship vibe or whatever. But yeah, yeah, it's a It's a weird experience, uh, and I, I definitely hit a wall where I'm like, okay, this is not what I want anymore, you know. This is like— it used to feel really fun and exactly what I wanted. I was able to like focus on my own goals. I had so many experiences. I dated a lot of people. I had a lot— I had a few like boyfriends as well, um, and met some really incredible men from doing this and kind of figured out what I want. What I don't want. And then, you know, at some point, they're just kind of casual stuff, felt very empty and unfulfilling. And I'm like, oh, I guess I'm done and I'm ready for something else. Like, so I think I was— I'm glad I listened to myself because I really needed that time to just put myself first of like, okay, I really want to do stuff with that dude, I'm gonna see if he's into it, you know. And then I'm gonna go about my business. Like, I don't feel like I don't want to, you know, take care of everybody's needs. I think I could have done a better job in a lot of situations, um, being like kinder or whatever. Um, but I think I was also still reeling from a very traumatic relationship where my needs were not taken into account at all. So I think maybe I felt a little bit justified with not really giving a shit about dudes' needs. And that is not okay. But I was so young, I didn't realize. I was like, whatever, this guy probably doesn't give a shit about any of the girls he's dating. Why do I have to give a shit? Right? So, yeah, I would definitely deal with things differently now. But that whole us being socialized as a woman of like, yeah, don't hurt anybody's feelings, be ladylike, invite everybody to your birthday party, even though one of them is your fucking bully and terrorizes you, right? Like, you don't want to hurt their feelings. So it's like, we've been told to put other people's feelings first. And, um, you know, like, yeah, and sometimes when you put your own feelings first, like, people are gonna get their feelings hurt. And like, that's okay, you know?

Totally. Oh my gosh, thinking about— that was one other thing that I felt like a little sad about was being so young and not understanding what I was doing, like, potentially to the dude. Like, I'm like, God, I held so much shame around so many things that I probably was like projecting that shit onto them. Or like, yeah, someone shared with me once that he had dated a Mormon girl and how she eventually ended up breaking up with him because he wasn't Mormon and wasn't going to become Mormon. And I was like, oh yeah, 100% have done that like multiple times. And didn't do that as like, you know, to be mean or hurtful, but because it was like a part of the religion. Yeah, it was a part of your belief that like if you were Mormon, you married a Mormon, and if they weren't Mormon, then you converted them to become a Mormon, right? And if they didn't, then that was like not an option for you. And so just thinking of things like that and the way that I handled younger relationships where I would just be like, sorry, but like you're not exactly what I need, and probably like almost shamed them into feeling like they might have been, you know, not good enough for some sort of reason. But to me it was just because probably in my head I'm thinking, well, shit, I can't make it to the top kingdom if I marry this dude. And eventually that, you know, anytime you have sex, it could potentially lead to marriage. So like, make sure that if you're going to have sex, Chris, that you're having sex with Mormon guys at least. And that— but you're not even supposed to have sex as a Mormon. So I don't know where my thought process was, but you know what I mean, right?

It's just like the guideline. It was a guideline. Line you were given your whole life. Like, it totally makes sense. It totally makes sense.

So I'm like, God, do I have some sort of like, you know, like, do I have some sort of obligation now to go back to every guy and be like, I was holding shame and I probably projected that on you and I'm so sorry? Like, I feel like I need to complete the circle somehow because I'm just like, God, he probably at some point had some sort of thought like, damn, or like has a has a thought because I said something at one point. I don't know, maybe I'm putting too much weight into it, but I have thought that because I'm like, God, when you grow up with such strict beliefs, it's hard not to project that onto everybody you come in contact with, whether you mean it or not.

Oh, of course.

I know.

It's like, what is that title of that movie? To All the Men I've Something Before or whatever. It's like, to all the men I've dated. Yeah, I've hurt before. I am sorry. I'm real sorry about that. Uh, you know, I was doing the best with what I had at the time, and I— yeah, it's like, I think I handled a lot of things very well, and I think I could have handled a lot of other things much better than I did. Um, and, um, yeah, wouldn't, wouldn't do a lot of it, uh, the same this time around if I was ever back in the dating world for whatever reason.

But, um, I want you to tell us about because we've talked about dating and how we didn't fucking know. But what about when you knew that you were going to marry Cam, or at least wanted to marry Cam?

Yeah. So I've had some very weird instances in my life where— okay, so this was 6 weeks. So I've been with my husband for a little over 7 years, and about 6 weeks into dating, we were like dancing in the shower and we were singing a song or whatever, like listening to music, right? And it was okay. I know it sounds so crazy, but sometimes you feel like you can hear words that are not your own, or you can feel words that are not your own if you've had that experience, right? So it was almost like somebody said, like, this is your husband, right? Like, that was it. And I'm like, oh, that's fucking weird because I have dated a lot of people. And had boyfriends and never had that moment of like, you're actually going to marry this dude. And so that was like, whoa, that was weird. Where'd that come from? And married him. Yep, married him. But it was so early on that I was like, can I really trust that? That's a very strange— it was a really weird feeling. And it's happened only two other times in my life. One was when I was 15, I got really sick. I was having all kinds of digestive issues and health issues and was going in and out of different specialists. Nobody knew what was kind of going on. I had to get a lot of different tests. And I was at school in the bathroom one time, and the word just like bacteria popped up in my head, like bacteria, whatever. And then very shortly after, we went to another specialist who ran some tests. I had like a big overgrowth of Candida, which is like a bacteria kind of thing that we all have in our stomach, but I had too much of it. So I was like, oh, that's really interesting that my body knew that's what was going on. I don't know, maybe trying to communicate with me. It sounds so weird, but it was the same feeling that I had when the words kind of popped up for Cam and then that for about the illness I was having. And I think I even told my mom, Could it be a bacteria? You know, like, it was such a weird occurrence in my school bathroom that I, like, felt like I had to tell somebody that this was weird that happened. Um, so those are the only two instances where I feel like I got, like, a weird message from my body or something, right? Um, and then there was another instance, uh, when I did, uh, I wasn't really doing stand-up for the first time, but I was in this in college, uh, this class where my friend really convinced me to take with her. And it was like, basically, long story short, you had to perform like an original monologue in front of a live audience for your final. And, um, I basically was doing stand-up without realizing it. And so that moment of like being on stage and like getting the kind of those first laughs, I felt like a really weird sensation, like very warm, like, kind of, oh my God, I have to— I guess I have to pursue this. Like, it was, it was without question of like, oh, I'm supposed to do this next. So it wasn't like words like the other instances. But it felt very weird. Like, my body immediately got warm, like, filled with kind of light. I like it. Like, I don't know, it was really weird. And I was on a track to do something totally different, by the way. I was religious studies major. I was going to be going on to become like a professor. I was considering law school. So not comedy related. Yeah. And I changed course very quickly, told my professors I no longer needed like recommendations for my master's programs that I was applying to, like all this stuff. And I did it. I did it for, you know, the next 6 and a half, 7 years. But that was a really weird like, oh, I know without a doubt I'm supposed to do this other thing next and fuck all my other plans. It was very weird. So those are 3 instances of like moments in my life, I guess, you know, one about my relationship, one about my health, one about my career path. Yeah. What about you? Anything come up for you related to that?

I think what's so interesting is that all of us feel those things like the I fucking knew so differently. Like some of them, even, even just in your 3, like they were a little bit different. Like one of them was words, like, and almost like a, I don't know, like you were with that person. And it was just like, this is it. And then the next one was, yeah, like a phrase. And you were like, maybe this is it. And it was like your body telling you. And then the next was just a fucking feeling that you were like, okay, this is the path. And I, you know, not right this second, I can't recall, like, exact words. But something that I've been practicing the last few years. And sometimes I feel like a fucking, like, broken record because I constantly talk about religion and growing up in such a conservative religion. But you're basically taught— and I've told you this multiple times— is that, like, you're taught to not listen to your intuition. So I think growing up, it was just so muffled and so low and so turned down that I didn't even— like, I'm sure I had a lot of those moments, right, where I felt a certain way, or I was maybe like, you know, urged in a certain direction. But maybe I didn't listen because, you know, we're taught that like, if it isn't really like revolving around the church, then it's probably Satan. So, right, like not, not to do that. And so I think for me, it's been really getting back in tune with my intuition, with my body, with listening and actually following through with it. Because there are tiny little instances like, where the fuck are my car keys? And I'll get like a little tiny like ping, like, did you check in Roxanne's purse that's pink underneath the counter? And I'm like, what? And sure as shit, there it is. But it's— but some of me is like, is that really just because I at one point saw her with my keys and she was carrying that bag and my mind is just remembering, right? I— for me, it's just more of like getting back there. It— I love this story, and I actually think I shared it on Self Helpless when you and I were talking, but Kurt, when he was first walking up to my house the first night that he came over— yeah, and I like never share it, but he like was walking up the steps to my house. We had never met. He was coming over for a New Year's party, and he was invited by a friend.. And he was just like, you're meeting your future spouse here. And the thing about Kurt is that he had never brought a girl home. He had never like thought that he would get married. Like he just wasn't, it just wasn't in the plans for him. Like he never thought that that would happen. And he, you know, was a world traveler and at the time was like training to go into the military, which isn't really the time that you're looking for a partner. And so I remember him coming in and I didn't have those exact same feelings, but I do remember feeling really excited about him because of how he was acting. Like, we were all, you know, 27 and he was very disciplined, which he still is. But he was just like, you know, I can only stay for about 45 minutes and then I'm meeting my family. And he like wasn't drinking. It was just very— I was very like drawn to him. And then he stayed in the friend group until until he left for training. And throughout that entire time, like, he was a very consistent person in the way that he showed up. And I loved that because I think for myself, I was on such a roller coaster that it felt very grounding to have somebody in my life that was showing up so consistently and kind of showing me that like, oh, at this age, you can also be consistent. Because I was hanging around with a bunch of people who were also numbing, right, and trying to like drink all the time. And it was just— yeah, I don't even know how to describe it. It was just very— whenever I was around him, it just felt very grounding. And he never, like, tried to make a pass at me. He was just always very friendly and very kind and always willing to, like, help out if that needed— you know, if I needed something. Um, and so it just felt so natural when we did end up, you know, just deciding to hang out, go on a date. And then I was like, oh my God, like, I've always had that, like, warm home feeling with you that I haven't really ever had before. And I think he has now for the last 7 years been able to watch me truly get to know myself better. Whereas, you know, when he knew me then, I was just kind of like drinking and not really, you know, knowing exactly how I felt about things. And so he has watched me, been able to like, you know, work through so many feelings and emotions of leaving the church and figuring out who I am and the career path I want to be on and the type of people I want to surround myself with. And so, yeah, there's something really beautiful about having him as a partner. And he's always known who he was. Always. Yeah. Like, and he even like, I've always known who I was and I always knew like, you know, a type of path that I wanted to be on. And so it's just, it's been very— and I think I've said this before— is that he's just very consistent in like who he is and how he loves me. And we were just talking about this the other day, is that I'm like, you are the first person who has loved me the way that I needed to be loved. And not that that's always been, you know, easy or simple or like super romantic, but in a way where he's like, I see you. You know, whatever you need. And so, yeah, such a totally different world than what I had come from, you know, and me being able to figure out who I am has probably been a little bit a part of that because he is a safe place, because he is so consistent, because he is grounding. Whereas I have been in relationships that are, you know, with people who are more like me, more like up and down and all over the place and exploring that it doesn't really allow so much for feeling safe and feeling like, okay, I can kind of explore who I am. And I always know that I'll have someone who's there to, like, reflect back to me and be a mirror. And, you know, I don't even know how to describe it. But I do love that he, that he shared that story because he isn't really woo woo. And so I love when he's like, I just had this this cute little feeling, and I'm like, oh my God, I love it, I love it.

It is weird how sometimes, yeah, your, your body picks up on things before you do, you know? Like, you're— because when, when I got that little twinge of like, this is your husband, I was like, fuck off, you know what I mean? Like, right, I, I was dating the guy for 6 weeks, you know, and I was not looking for a husband. I was not. I was looking for something casual still, um, and so I was like, that's ridiculous. And so whatever was going on, whether it was like energy or some kind of signal I was picking up on or whatever, it knew before I did. That's kind of how it feels. Whether your brain's picking up on something and trying to communicate that to your body or vice versa, it is really weird. Whatever is happening when you have a feeling, whether it's you're picking up on energy or your your brain's seeing little things that it's happening so fast that you don't even realize it. Um, totally. Very, very, very weird. I, um, some of the things that have freaked me out the most probably have been when I've known that people or animals were going to die. This is like a very weird recurring thing over the last, um, I don't know, several years or something.

And, um, Uh, yeah, it's, uh, like before there's a diagnosis or anything, like you just get a feeling or what?

Well, okay, so it's always been— okay, so the first one that, uh, really freaked me out was, um, I was hanging out with Cam in our bedroom one day and I— we were laying in bed together just like relaxing and I just got this weird overwhelming like rush sensation over my body where it's just like somebody in your family, it's their last birthday. That was the message. Like, someone's about to die. And I'm like, oh. And it freaked me out. And I had a weird kind of vision that paired with it. It was so weird. Right. And usually I would not share something like that with Cam because he is so not the woo person. And I don't want him to think I'm absolutely batshit crazy. So I would have kept that to myself. But he was laying right next to me and I was like, whoa, you know what? And so I'm like, I know this sounds weird, but like, I know wholeheartedly somebody in my family is about to die. Like, it's— that's— I don't know how I know, but I just know. Within, I think it was like 7 days, my grandfather passed away. And he hadn't— like, he was old, obviously, but it wasn't like a, you know, even though he was very old, it wasn't like we were given like he has X amount of time to live or, you know what I mean? It wasn't like, you know, They'd been around for a long time. And within that, like, yeah, 7, 8 days, he was admitted to hospice and then immediately, like, died within, I don't know, a few days of being in hospice. Right. So I'm like, wow, that's so weird. And yeah, I just like, I knew without a doubt, like, I was willing to say to my husband who doesn't really believe in this shit, I know for a fact somebody is going to die very soon.

And how did he receive that?

He's just like, okay, I like— I, I just— I think he's been used to me being like, oh, I have a weird feeling, but yeah, not like— not something so matter of fact. And then this weird little vision I had that was paired with it was being at my grandparents' house and like being given a gift.. And so I was really worried that it was actually the person that was giving me that gift who was going to pass away. And I was like, oh my God, this person, much younger, would have really— and so I was like, oh my gosh, what if it's this person? But what happened was that is the person who called me to tell me that my grandfather had been admitted into officially in hospice. So it's like I had a vision about the messenger delivering me a message almost about the overall person. Does that make sense? I was at my grandparents' house being handed something, and here I was being handed a message about my grandpa. It was so fucking weird. And I was like, I'm just going to keep this to myself because it sounds so strange. I actually had talked about it, like admitted it on Self Helpless, and I was like, oh, people are gonna think I'm crazy. I'm gonna get so many weird messages. And I was— it was overwhelmingly, um, so many messages about like, oh my gosh, something similar happened to me. I knew, you know, my parent was gonna die 24 hours before they died. Like all these mess— so not like you're crazy and all that. It was so the opposite of like Thank you for sharing that because I have felt crazy too. And just tons of experiences of like, yep, I knew somebody was going to pass away and they did. And it made me feel really, you know, kind of creeped out or whatever.

And like validation, you were giving them validation and like, we are, we are energetic humans. And sometimes I think we forget that, like, yeah, we are meant to be intuitive and like we're meant to to be connected and like feel things and hear things. And it's a part of like generations that have done it. And so even when I started talking about, you know, like energy work that I was working on, because, you know, for a while it was kind of like a focus of mine. And I remember being freaked the fuck out when my one girl I was working with was like, can you just do this as like a trial. And I know after now that she was like, I was doing that to kind of push you forward into it. But then when she like gave, you know, the person all the things that I had said and everything that had come up, the person wrote back like, oh my God, like every single thing had like happened within the past week, all of these feelings, all of these thoughts and blah, blah, blah. And that was kind of the first time I think that I was like, you can trust yourself. Like, even though you— we tell ourselves that like over and over, or even for little tiny things where we like get a ping and then it later comes true, and we're like, oh, like we knew, right? Like, I fucking knew, I trust myself. But I don't think I actually let myself trust myself until I was actively like having people be like, hey, Wanna do a quick, like, energy reading on me? And I was like, well, we'll see what comes up. Because I— right, sometimes you feel fucking crazy because you're just like seeing things, right? Like a little tiny vision that you're like, I have no clue what this means. I have no idea how the other person is going to receive it, right? Like Cam, like you saying that, I'm like, I don't know how you're gonna receive this. It's, you know, it's a little bit scary. But after, you know, practicing over and over and getting feedback and having people. Like, I think I told you this one. I did a reading and I was like, I'm seeing a trailer park and like you're living with your grandparents. I didn't know this person at all. Like, they just reached out to me, so I had no history into them, which I've done like close friends, so it's a little bit different because I feel like I do have a more, you know, like my outlook on them is a little bit different. I've known them for 20 years, whereas this person had no idea who they were. And I was like This is what I'm seeing. And it felt fucking weird and it felt uncomfortable. And she was like, I grew up in a trailer with my grandparents.

Oh my gosh, that's why I was like, okay, what?

And so I think that coming from never trusting myself to being thrown or being, being, yeah, kind of thrown into that space and then learning to trust myself, I think it really was like this uncomfortable push that I needed and maybe not even to like necessarily quote unquote help anybody else. But I do feel like it was just kind of a needed thing that I personally needed to be like, you're in tune, Kris. Maybe all the shit that you don't— that, you know, maybe all the shit that you think or that comes to your vision is like 100% accurate. But also, like, we're all in tune. Like, somebody else could do an energy reading on me. And really, they would just like— we all have that gift. Like, we all have that ability to like tap into ourselves. And it's basically like meditation and just seeing like how we feel, what comes up. And it's just such a fun thing to practice, especially with people who are open, like open to just being like, okay, I'm open to this, kind of like the tit sucking thing, right? It's just like, I'm open. Like, this could be great. This could be awful. Don't know until you try it. Gotta try it.

It is interesting how the more that you do like work on it, the stronger it gets. Because like, oh yeah, things really started happening more when I made a conscious effort to start trusting my instinct more and just any way possible. And, and like, you know, some advice that I had been given too is just like, yeah, when you have an idea or a thought, whatever, just like allow yourself to follow it, right? So if I have a dream about somebody, I allow myself to look them up or send them a text or whatever. And something— sometimes something weird will happen, right? Like, I'll like, I have this dream about this girl from college, and then I'll look her up and see that she had a baby last night, right? Like, these are like, oh, wow, I wouldn't have known that if I didn't allow myself to be like, I'm just going to look this up, or I'm going to Google this thing, or I'm going to whatever. And, and without doing those things, I would have been like, oh, that's weird, and then gone about my day. Why did I have this weird dream about this girl from middle school? Strange. Okay, bye. And when you actually allow yourself to follow it, there's some really interesting things and connections that you might make where you're like, that is very strange. I had this really vivid dream about my grandpa, and it was just us walking down this grassy knoll somewhere. And he just kept saying, you're looking pluck, you're looking pluck, kid. And I'm like, I don't know what that means, right? You're looking— and he had a very thick Irish accent. You're looking pluck, right? And I just woke up being like, what? And you know when you have a very vivid dream versus other dreams where you feel like that felt different than my other stuff. So I called my mom and I was like, did Grandpa ever say this word? And she's like, no, it doesn't really. Ring a bell. Like, I've— we've all heard of the term like plucky, right? And that kind of stuff, but never like you're looking pluck. Um, and so I was just like, okay, that's weird. It's probably just a weird dream. And then I, I decided to just Google the word and, um, found that pluck, um, was Old English boxer slang. And my grandfather was a professional boxer in England. And I was like, holy shit, what? Boxer slang, you know, English origin. And it's not something he said when he was alive. So I was like, how do you explain that? I haven't heard that before. My family hasn't heard that term. And that's the thing that I remembered from the conversation in the dream. And I just decided, fuck it, I'm just going to look this thing up.

And then I did.

I'm like, oh, wow.

Weird, really weird. What did it— what did it mean, like, to look pluck?

It means you're looking courageous. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, wow, that is so interesting, right? Um, yeah, so just things like that where, like, it's at minimum, it's just like a fun thing to do. It's just kind of entertaining. It's just kind of fun. I had a dream about this, I'm just gonna look it up, or I'm gonna text my friend like, I had a weird dream about you. She's like, oh my God, I was just thinking about you, right? So It's just even if you don't believe in any of that shit, it's just a fun time. And we had a really incredible woman on the podcast not too long ago who does dream work and dream interpretation and helps you with that. And I told her, I was like, this sounds really crazy, but I've known when people were going to die, when animals were going to die. I knew when, like, my friend was going to get her period when we were, like, in elementary school. And I felt, like, kind of creeped out, right? And she's like, yeah, you're probably bleeding in the next month.

Exactly.

I was like, I had a dream and this was the dream. And then basically it happened. And so she's like, yeah, that's not really weird at all. It's like you seem to be picking up on somebody's— what's happening in their body, right? So picking up maybe something that, like, your friend was about to menstruate without you realizing it, whether it was right. Picking up, like, maybe the last time you saw your grandfather, something you picked up on the fact that he was not doing well internally and you just didn't know, right? So all these things, I was like, that makes the most sense because they were all people that I saw in person that obviously something was going on with their body or the animal or whatever. And I just was like, I know that this is going to happen. And should I tell anybody? I don't want to freak people out and I don't want to say something that it's not the case. And so that had— that made the most sense to me. And that makes total sense. Really weird, right?

I love that. I love it. Okay, well, let's give a couple of hot tips for people who are wanting—

want to feel crazy. No problem. We got tons of those down.

Oh my God. No, just like we've both been in places where we haven't listened, haven't trusted, and then have listened, have trusted. And like maybe just things that you've done to like— so for me, I have been trying to validate things. So like if I have a certain thing that I'm like looking for or needing, I try to find ways to validate that. So for instance, and I'm talking about me reading people's energies every now and then, if I want to feel validated, I will do a reading. And then I'll be like, hey, put this through your filter, see how it felt for you. And just hearing responses back, like, is a huge validation that like, Chris, you are like, you, you are in tune, or like, you can follow like that little thing, or even let's let's not even talk about energy work. But let's just talk about in my day-to-day work life and my career. Sometimes I'll get like these little feelings where I'm like, hmm, I think that this client might need XYZ. I'm just gonna ask. And then I'll ask and they'll be like, oh my God, that would make me feel so good if that, you know, and it'll just be like little tiny things, nothing that's like massive or a huge game changer, at least to me. But to them, they're like, oh my God, actually, now that you say it, that would be extremely helpful. Or that is something that I have been thinking about but haven't known how to put into words. And so it's just like things like that where it's like, hey, instead of living in fear of like, oh shit, people are going to think I'm fucking weird, or my client is going to be like, no thanks, but thanks. Instead, I just do the thing or I say the thing, and then I just let it happen how it's meant to happen. Because I think it's, it's like a win-win. Like, it feels good to me because it's now up and out of my body. And then it also gives them an opportunity to say yes or no. And that's that. And so I think that's a really great way that I practice listening to my intuition, or that inner voice, or whatever it is, is that I'm just like, okay, great, I got this thing. And I'm just gonna put it out there and see what comes back. Yeah. What about for you?

Yeah, no, I think just like thinking of it as just kind of a fun game without like, without any weight, right? Like, yeah. And I'm just like, yeah, I had a dream. I'm just gonna look this word up that I found in a dream, or I'm gonna, you know, I'm just— who cares? It takes a second and it's just kind of a fun thing. And I think the more that you do that, I think you get faster with your decision-making of like, I had this little twinge and I'm just going to go ahead and do it. And just maybe makes you more decisive, maybe more trusting. Because if you do that enough, I think for me, I have started to realize which twinges actually seem to lead to something and which don't. And sometimes you like— sometimes you actually don't even know why you know or how you know something, but your body just knows. So for example, I was in a relationship for a long time where, um, when I would leave like his place, I would just cry all the way home. I just, I just had a feeling. I'm like, I know this person is gonna hurt me really badly. I feel like something is off. I feel like something is up, but I couldn't point to anything. It was just like a body response. So it's not like he had done anything that night or said anything mean. It just was something innate. And then, you know, years later, I find out that he was cheating on me behind my back, had like a full-on other relationship with somebody for like, I don't know, over a year, right? So I was picking up on something without really realizing that's exactly what it was. So if you're having even responses like that, or if you are, you're not like, I feel like something's up and I'm trying to figure it out and I'm researching it and I'm trying to figure out like, what is up with this What's up with this person? Or what's up with this situation? That is enough. Like, you don't even have to know what exactly it is, but the fact that you're even thinking to Google things because you're confused or whatever, that is sometimes all you need to be like, something isn't right. I don't have to have all the fucking facts to make a change or to confront something or to leave a situation. And I think especially being women, we have been told that we are crazy and we know this and don't listen to yourself. I think we put this pressure on ourselves to have every single fact before we make a decision or do something or bring something to somebody. And just if we're having a body response of some kind or an off feeling, that's enough to be like, all right, I'm moving on to something else. I fucking have to explain it.

Yeah, I love that point because I think sometimes in our society we're out to like fix something. Like, oh, we see this wrong, so now we have to like kind of like, to your point, like we have to like find out the reason, we have to like dig to the bottom of it. Like, why am I feeling this way? Like, let's figure out why, let's look at all of the reasons, let's— and it's like, holy shit, that's it though. Like, the, the feeling is it. Like, there's no— and kind of like what we were talking about before, it's like You don't have to give a reason why you're fucking standing up and leaving the date. Like, you just fucking leave, and there doesn't have to be any other reason other than like, I have a bad feeling, and that's it.

That's enough, and that's good enough. God, yeah, exactly. Oh, this was a— this was a deep one. Oh yeah, we had a lot. We covered a lot of bases.

The Craigslist sucking things.

I mean, yeah, everything from that to, you know, knowing your grandpa's gonna die. I mean, what else could you want from a podcast episode? We're trying to give the people what they want.

Oh my God, I just have to tell you one last thing before we hop off. Okay, so, you know, maybe I told you this story, but Kurt and I got matching pineapple tattoos.

Did I already tell you? Oh my gosh, yes! And apparently that's like a swinger thing or something.

Yeah, but like, also, I'm not a fucking like expert in swinging, like at all, but people think I am because I shared story once. And so I swear to God, people will be like, so is the pineapple upside down or right up? Like, just randomly, like in a friend group, we'll just be chatting and they're like, oh my God, had a conversation with someone, they were talking about pineapples, thought of you, what happens? And I'm like, bitches, I don't know, because I am not a swinging expert. But it's just so funny because I'm like, I guess I just—

funny.

Exude that I have all of that knowledge and the people need that info and they're coming to me for it. And I'm like, I wish I could help out more, but I can't because I just don't know.

You seem very open to trying shit. I think that's the vibe. It's like you're very open, like, hey, whatever, I will— I'll follow my bliss, I'll try this thing out. You have a very like free kind of vibe. So I'm not surprised that people think, man, she's probably banged 5 dudes at once or something.

Where'd you get that from? Where'd you get that from? Why would you think that?

I mean, if she, if she was on Craigslist looking for a, for a, you know, a good time, I bet she's probably done this other thing, right? I mean, yeah, oh my God, it doesn't mean it's correct, but I, I can understand why people think that you've maybe had a variety of experiences, especially coming from the background that you did where you're like, I'm gonna try some shit. I'm gonna try it all.

I'll get a tattoo. I'll get a tattoo. But yeah, it's just so funny how like now all of a sudden I'm a fucking expert because I got a tattoo 7 years ago.

But gosh, I think you should learn how to capitalize on it and just be the next big thing.

I'm like, should I? Is this the universe telling me that I need to go down this expert route? Like, maybe I should know all the things about pineapples, and that could be like a fabulous new career thing for me. I don't know. But yeah, I just had to share that with you. But, um, this episode has been real and a plethora of all the things, which is one reason why I love you so much, is because we could literally sit on and talk about one topic that leads to the next, that leads to the next, and pretty soon it's been like 5 hours and we're like, oh shit. We've covered everything and there's still more.

Oh, I know. I could talk to you all day and night. I love you so much. You truly are an amazing person. You are a really special person. And I'm just— yeah, I'm so glad to have you in my life.

Yeah, ditto, ditto. You're my fave. You'll always be one of my favorite people because I think that it's so wild that I was just thinking about this the other day, that I'm like, she hired me to be an OBM and like I'm not even Type A. Like, you're more Type A than me, but I'm like, girl, I will get you organized in not an organized way. Like, you know what?

Talk about feeling and intuition. I hired you off of a feeling. I totally did. I mean, not that you weren't— that you didn't have a skill set too, but like, it was very much more about like, I enjoy talking and connecting with this person. And I'm really glad I did, even though it was like C-minus skills.

It's like, okay, we'll have some skill building here.

You know what?

It's like a little embarrassing.

It's exactly what I needed.

I needed—

I'm like, I don't know what I'm up to. So I'm like, we are in this together.

No, I just like cherish that time. Bless you for having me as your OBM. And I feel like it was totally meant to happen just because we were meant to be in each other's lives, and that was the thing at the moment.

But anyways, exactly, exactly.

Love you. Thank you for coming on and having a wild convo with me.

Thanks for having me.

All right, talk to you soon. Bye. If you fell in love with Dee, which I am sure that you did, you can listen to her on another podcast that she co-hosts called Self Helpless that covers a variety of topics. And her and Kelsey, and when Taylor comes on, they are just absolutely hilarious. It's such a great show, provides motivation to create positive change and practical tips and it's amazing. I'll link that in the show notes.