Award Winning Documentary Director of "A Fire Within"

I'm Kristjana Hillberg, ex-Mormon and mom of 3, and this is I Fucking Knew, a show where we break down life's unexplainable moments, the times when you know something's off but you can't put a finger on it, or you're drawn to a path that feels right for you despite others' opinions, and when your gut feeling was just too loud to ignore. Each episode features a guest who shares how their intuition showed up for them, everything from vivid dreams that a partner was cheating to meeting someone and instantly know and being called to just do something else. These are the moments that change our lives forever. Ready to strengthen your intuition?

The premiere was Friday, right?

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. How did it go?

It went great. It was sold out. We are at the Atlanta Film Festival, April 30th. We had a COVID-safe drive-in. Which I, I've never actually been to a drive-in, and I've definitely never been to a drive-in for a documentary.

Yeah, but still, that would be super— it's like retro, it's super awesome.

It was amazing. And everybody there at the film festival, they had it locked in. It was perfect. It was actually really beautiful because normally you go into a dark room to see a movie, and here we were out in Atlanta and it was a beautiful red sunset setting behind the the, the vintage, uh, marquee of the Plaza Theater. And I just took a moment there. Normally I'd be kind of a little bit nervous, and I was like, wow, this is really beautiful. That's pretty incredible moment that would never happen in a movie theater. You'd never be looking at the sunset introducing your film. And it was really beautiful. It worked great, and it looked great. I was surprised. And we had, um, a mixture of people that were involved with the film that were actually interviewees, lawyers from Atlanta. We had members of the Ethiopian community, and we had members of like university and college students from Atlanta and from Morehouse, which was really important. Like, I really want to connect with the future generation with this story, not just people who are already documentary lovers who are like usually, you know, a little bit older adults, for lack of a better term. So it was really beautiful. It was a beautiful moment.

Oh, that scene goes perfectly with the title as well, right? Like the sunset, fire within. Yeah, it's perfect. So I love it. How did you— tell me about this documentary in particular. Like, how did this come about?

Sure. So basically the story behind A Fire Within is a story about 3 women who are immigrants and refugees from Ethiopia and survivors of torture. And it's this extraordinary story about how one of the women, Edje Gaye Taye, her nickname is Edje, she loved the novel of Gone with the Wind. So over several years, she went from basically a refugee camp in East Africa to Canada, to Detroit, to different cities, and worked her way to Atlanta, Georgia. And she got a waitressing job there at a hotel called the Colony Square Hotel. It's this kind of iconic modernist compound commercial center in Midtown Atlanta. So she got this waitressing job. She starts her job. And one day she's coming out of the elevator and she's introduced to another coworker who's Ethiopian. He says hello. And she feels something in her stomach and she realizes it's the voice of the man who was her interrogator and torturer a dozen years earlier. So it's this unbelievable story of coincidence. And then followed by these three women coming together to verify this guy's identity, and they make a pact together that they're going to unite and they're going to find a way to bring their own torturer to justice in Atlanta, Georgia. And so it's this extraordinary story of women survivors of abuse who are incredibly resilient and courageous, having no power in America as refugees, as immigrants, having almost no voice in this society and just never giving up. And they found a way to find human rights lawyers who said, we believe your story, who then said, we're going to use a statute from 1789 to get this guy in court. And that's just sort of the tip of the iceberg of why this is an extraordinary and an important story. So I basically my name is Christopher Chambers. I am not Ethiopian. I'm not even from the generation of these women. These events begin in the 1970s in Ethiopia. And so they're about a bit older than I am. So I first read about this case in an article that I had on my computer. Like a lot of us, we have all these articles. In my case, they're on my desktop. My desktop looks like the desktop of a completely crazy person. There's like hundreds of articles. Because I really believe I'm going to read them. And I happened to be on a flight after touring with my last film. I was on a long flight back from Australia. And I started going through all the articles on my desktop, you know, until my battery died on my laptop. And one of them was a case that touched on the— it touched on this story. And I basically clicked and started going down the internet rabbit hole and reading more and more about this case of these 3 Ethiopian women confronting their torture in Atlanta. And my jaw dropped. And I was just like, I can't believe I've never heard of this. You know, I was just like, this is unbelievable, but also so inspiring and so important as an American story about individuals fleeing atrocity from abroad, coming here and fighting for justice. I mean, this is sort of the story of our nation, or at least the best parts of it, let's say. Yeah, um, and that was it. And I set it aside because I was like, well, this has nothing— I don't know that I'm the person to tell this story, you know. I, I, I'm so many degrees removed from knowing their truth. And then it just kind of wouldn't let go of me, you know. It's one of those things like, does this project choose you or did you choose the project? And when I reflect back, I'm like, I don't really know, because I just couldn't stop thinking about it and I couldn't stop thinking, why is there not a film about this? And then finally, I think I was just like, well, why don't I just try? What would happen if I just try? And I think a lot of things begin that way. You say, well, let's try. And that began a 4-year odyssey where I tried to track down and reach out to the women to connect with them and ask them if they'd be interested. And a lot of dead ends, because in the beginning they weren't— they weren't even interested in speaking with Yeah, so it's—

wow, that's fascinating—

grabbed me and wouldn't let go of me. And still, I mean, I'm still as inspired by this story as I was the first moment I read the article 4 and a half years ago.

Wow. So I was able to watch it. There were so many things in there that were incredible. We love documentaries here, we watch them all the time at the house. But, um, when they were coming together after Edge, that's her nickname, right? After she had called the other girls and had said, you know, he's here. And they were like, how will we react? I think that that was such a— that statement, you never know. Like, they were about ready to, to look this man who had abused them and tortured them for years, and this was like a past life for them. How were they going to show up and react? And I was It just kept you on the edge of your seat. And to hear these stories, most of that stuff in the documentary was, was news to me. I had no idea about Ethiopia as a country and the things that happened there. So it was very enlightening and it was just a story of, like you said, complete bravery for them to, to talk about their story and like relive it. And then to also believe that someone would believe them and help them. Be like, it was just very emotional.

Yeah, it's, it's interesting doing this as a documentary because my background isn't actually in documentary, it's in narrative, so fiction. And doing this story as a documentary is so fascinating because of these little details from real life that are so truthful, that are actually what actors are trying to capture, but sometimes you just can't imagine them. So Like in that sequence in the early part of the film when they're actually— I mean, it's hard to believe because it sounds so cinematic, but the three women actually, you know, staked out the employee entrance to the hotel waiting to watch him walk in while they were sort of hiding across the parking lot. And I remember Elizabeth telling me before she consciously identified the guy, her legs started going out on her. Her legs went weak, like her body. And that is such a truthful, you know, as any person, as anyone who suffered any kind of trauma at any point, your body sometimes is telling you things and reacting in ways way before you've consciously caught up with it.

Yeah, 100%.

And so the fear and the trauma is real and something I'll never be able to totally understand, but it does make me honor them even more as what I consider, like I said, American heroes, because I think it would have been just as valid to say, he's here, I'll write an anonymous letter to a human rights organization, and I'm going to move on with my life, and I'm going to move out of Atlanta because this is not worth re-traumatizing myself.

I almost— right, I was like, I almost thought that, like, as I was watching, like, oh, what's going to happen? Are they going to leave so that they don't have to see him? How is this going to play out? So it was very empowering, I think. And just like you said, for the next generation, for anybody to listen to their story. And they all were able to communicate extremely well, like, their version, what had happened to them. And when you are creating a documentary, do you have to meet with them, like, multiple times before you decide to film? Do you guys have to talk over and over about the story? Like, what does that look like behind the scenes?

Yeah, this was unusual because, uh, I've never— I've interviewed over 100 people for different projects, uh, mostly for hire projects, and I've never done something that's involving this degree of emotional intensity and individual physical and psychological trauma, right? So these, um, when I first reached out to the women and I, and I searched Google trying to find them, none of them would return my phone call or my emails. And I realized later that I was calling them in the middle of their workday saying, hello, I'm a stranger, my last name is clearly not from your culture, I have nothing to do with you, and I'd like to talk to you about the very most horrible traumatic thing that ever happened to you in your life while you're trying to get through your workday. And so none of them would respond to me at all. And finally I, I realized maybe I'll try to reach one of the lawyers because the lawyers They exist in the world, they have websites. Some of them are full-time human rights lawyers, some of them are very successful trademark lawyers that also do pro bono work. So the most successful of them in the private sector was Miles Alexander, who's actually quite famous in trademark law. He's an extraordinarily accomplished, sort of revered pioneer in trademark law. So he was really easy to find. There's 1,000 articles about him. So I called him and he said, I'm not gonna talk to you about this over the phone. If you want, you can fly to Atlanta and meet me face to face, and then I'll make a decision on whether I think I'll talk to the women about what you wanna do.

Wow.

Yeah, so I flew to Atlanta, had lunch with this, you know, very accomplished elder statesman of trademark law at some fancy restaurant. And he's very charming and very intelligent and so charming, I couldn't tell what he thought of me. You ever met these people? He's just a pro. So I had no idea. And I went home thinking, I don't know if he likes me or if he was just, you know, thinks I'm, you know, not worth their time. But then all of a sudden I got a call from one of the women, Hirut, and we had a 3-hour phone call. We didn't talk about the film at all. And then, Couple days later, I got another phone call from Elizabeth, second woman. We had a 3.5-hour conversation. Didn't talk about the film. We talked about current events, politics, books, movies, anything but the film. And then finally, several weeks later, I heard from Eji Gahu, from Edge, who is sort of the center of everything that happened. And she— same thing. We had this long conversation. And I realized— and it seems pretty intelligent. I want to use this. What they were doing was they were trying to find out for themselves what kind of person I was. Yeah, they weren't going to ask me what I wanted to do. They were going to ask me questions about other things to see who I really was. Mm-hmm. And then I made a promise to them. I said, the number one thing I'll promise you is that I will not let you down. If you trust me, I will show you the film before it's finished. I will listen to all of your notes, and if you feel that I have not done your story justice, I'll go back to work and keep working until you feel that I have. That's absolutely crazy promise to make because to this day, if any of them felt I still hadn't done justice or they had changed their mind, I would never have finished the film. Yeah. And so that gave a level. And also you can only do that with an independent film. If we had a studio backing us or something like that, they'd say, no, you can't give up control like that.

Yeah.

And that felt to me like a very, very reasonable exchange to say, I'm gonna offer you this control over your story.

It's your intuition speaking. Just kidding, it's me, Kris. If you've been yearning for more, but aren't sure where to start, your life doesn't look like your own, and you're ready to make changes that lead to a reality that feels like you, I encourage you to apply for a 15-minute complimentary Conjuring Call with me, where we unearth your true desires and craft next steps that feel completely aligned with you. Click the link in the description of this episode to apply. Can't wait to meet you.

What was their reaction then?

Oh, it was, it was really tricky. So they all felt that was very fitting, you know, because it's their life story. And they, they're not defined by this is the thing. They go through their lives, they're very strong. They go to work like every other person. And they're not— they don't go to work saying, hi, I'm Elizabeth, I'm a torture survivor. She says, I'm Elizabeth, and she's this VP of finance where she works. And she's accomplished, and she's a strong individual defined by other things. At this part of her life. But I'll tell you, it did make my life much more difficult editing because this project took 4 years and the editing itself took another, probably another 6 weeks extra because I showed the cut when it was almost done to each of the women. In 2 cases, I flew to their homes and watched it next to them on the couch, which is very emotionally intense. And in each case, they had feedback and they said, no, no, no, you are connecting this line, like psychologically, or this cause and effect, but that's not what I was thinking. You got to fix that. That's not correct. I understand why, Christopher, why you thought that. That's because you don't understand this other element. And I'd say, oh, okay, give me, give me a couple weeks. I don't know how, but I'm going to fix it so that we're— so that I'm serving your story. Because that's what this film is. It's serving— they're the heroes of the story. And if I— if they felt that I screwed it up, then I screwed up the whole movie.

Well, yeah, and I mean, at this point you have relationships with these women, like you have worked with them for years, like you truly care for them. So I'm sure that that's difficult on the level of, okay, I'm creating this film, but I also like very much value everything you have to say and your entire input in this. So it's— I feel like there's so many emotions that are kind of behind that?

Yeah, it's been— I mean, there have been screenings where I've been in tears because of what is happening in the room.

Yeah.

And honestly, there's also a degree of guilt, I have to say, because I know that bringing— when I flew across the country, say, to go to Edge's apartment, uh, to her home and to show it to her, I know that I'm bringing something with great darkness into her home. And it's not like she's not watching another person's trauma, she's watching her own. And that begins a chain reaction of events that don't stop for days or weeks after that, which has been— they've told me that, you know, like when you call, even if you're not calling about the film, I know that you're part of this story now. And that triggers things in them where they can get PTSD, they can have flashbacks, they will have nightmares.

Yeah.

So knowing that is also this really complicated relationship that I think is only navigated in a humane and equitable way by saying, hey, do you— would you like me to come over and show it to you? Not I'm coming over, but when is good for you? When are you ready? And so they're in control as well, or in some ways at some points even more than I am.

Yeah.

When they agreed to do the film, did they— were they like, okay, we understand that this is going to be like a long road, a journey, it is going to bring up you know, some PTSD? How are we equipped to handle that? Like, was there that discussion beforehand?

Um, so that was interesting. That's a line in terms of their personal dealing with it. That's a line I didn't cross until much later, until I, I actually— we became actual friends in terms of talking about their personal life, uh, and their personal way of dealing. And I have to say that Um, you know, these women are much stronger than I am for sure. They've been through much more than I ever have, and they've achieved more than I ever have. So they have their own ways of dealing, and it's been over multiple decades now. So I sort of feel like, uh, I can't really comment to them about my ideas of what's— oh, this might be a healthy, you know, because it's just I'm so many degrees away from really even understanding. Um, what, what it's like that they're going through.

After they had all talked to you, obviously they probably all communicated and were like, okay, we like him, we want to move forward with this. What was their reasoning for deciding to move forward? Like, did they share that with you?

Yeah, well, it is actually put the opposite way, which is very much like an insight into the psychology and the culture. I think you do have a culture there's an interesting manner about the way that Ethiopian culture works. It's actually quite intellectual in many ways. And so they posed it to me as— Elizabeth was the first. She said, "Well, what's the point?" She didn't say why she was considering it. She said to me, she said, "You tell me, what's the point of doing this? You know the story, you know what it would take to cover it." to do it, uh, what you would be asking me to tell you and share with you, uh, what's the point? And that was honestly a very difficult question because she basically said, do you think you're going to change the world? Because you're not, you're not going to change the world, so what's the point?

What was your answer?

I just told her honestly, I said, uh, I think this story It's a historic trial that's sort of lost to the human rights textbooks. Like, only human rights lawyers and other Ethiopians of this generation know this story. In 40 years, I've never met anyone else who's outside of those two categories of people who've heard of it. And I said, I think it can be very empowering for other survivors of torture in America and around the world to see this story. In America, I read an article that said in America, There are 1.4 million survivors of torture, uh, who are immigrants from other countries, which means that if you add on the psychological stigma of being a torture victim or survivor, that number could be easily twice that.

Yeah.

So there's millions of people who have gone through something like what they've gone through, and to see someone who survive, thrive, and also fight for justice and bring and fight to bring their own torture to justice, I think, could be tremendously empowering. And if one of those people sees this and feels stronger, more empowered, able to act, able to take action in their life, then I think that's way beyond anything I'll ever accomplish with any other film in my lifetime. So I said, that's— and if one college kid or law student sees this and sees a story of three women who have no power at all in this American society, No contacts. They didn't— they weren't third-generation Harvard grads, you know, from banking families. You know, they just were three women. It's a waitress saying, this is not right, and I'm not going to stop fighting until I find a way to try to bring this man to justice. If one college kid or one law student or one grad student says, you know what, actually, I could— I can make a difference. Maybe I'll try to do something to make the world a better, more just place. Well, that's also more than any other film I'll ever work on will achieve. So I said, that's my humble goal, if one person might be empowered or inspired. And I think they agreed with me. They said, well, if one person can be reached in that way and changed in that way, then it's worth it.

4 years' worth of work and emotions, But that really is a beautiful, beautiful reasoning. And the film is very empowering and inspiring and done so extremely well. And really, by the end of it, I mean, you love all of these women. Like, they're just— everything about them. And they're all different, but they're all so— there's just something about them. You love them all by the end. So it was done very beautifully. If people are wanting to— watch the film? When will that be available? Like, tell me more about that.

So this, uh, this past weekend was our first premiere in Atlanta, and we wanted to do that to try to make our film festival premiere meaningful. Not just to say what's the best film festival we can get into, but where can we do something more meaningful and something we can really have an impact rather than going to Tribeca or some random place like that. Yeah, and then now we'll start rolling out to some more film festivals. So on our social media, we'll be posting about it because the film festival websites can be very confusing, and this is not exactly front page news, you know, this independent film. So on Facebook, we're at facebook.com, uh, slash A Fire Within Doc, like documentary, and same Twitter and Instagram, uh, at A Fire Within Doc, like A Fire Within documentary, but A Fire Within doc. And we'll be posting when we're coming to new cities, 'cause we don't really know yet, 'cause it's such a fresh, it just happened. The word of mouth just started spreading and we got all, it's amazing review from their version of like the Village Voice there. And we got coverage in the big newspaper there. So something's happening. People really connected with this film. I'm delighted and surprised to see. And so basically probably in about 6 months or so, we'll start planning a rollout where we actually do theatrical events. Hopefully COVID will be under control. People will not just be able to gather in theaters but comfortable doing it because this story was designed— yes, you can watch it at home if we end up streaming on Netflix or HBO or Hulu or something like that down the road, but it was designed to have a collective emotional experience, to connect with these women emotionally and to follow their journey. So the dream and the goal is that we will tour the cities with like 300-seat theaters and we'll do panels afterwards because people always want to talk about the story after they see it.

Yeah, so the women will travel there and be able to answer questions. I love that. That's, that's amazing.

My, my, uh, promise to them, the other promise I made to them, uh, but much lesser, is that whenever we do anything with the film like touring it They'll always be invited, but they'll never be obligated. So it's just up to you. Like, you control it, you tell me, and I'll make it happen. Yeah. So that will be— so I don't want to promise, like, if someone sees we're showing, we're coming to New York City, which we've been invited to, or, or some— or coming back to Atlanta, which we definitely will do. I don't know who's going to be there, but I can tell you that they're categorically invited.

So, wow. Wow. Well, I'm so glad that you came on and shared this story. It's beautiful. I highly recommend it. It was incredible. So thank you. Thanks so much.

Thank you. I mean, I love— I was listening to your podcast, and I love that your intro really struck me because you said it's about stories and how stories can bring us together. And that's really hit me because that's really what we're trying to do with this film, is to have audiences from around the world connect with this culture that they have nothing to do with And to have a journey like you, where the opening of the film helps us to connect emotionally in ways that people will see when they see the film. And if it works, then we're taking stories and we're bringing people together. So, I mean, I just— I love that that's what your podcast is about.

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