Co-living as Co-parents

Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your host. Here you'll get to listen to stories from people who divulge real and raw experiences on all different topics. You get 9 lives on your journey here on Earth. Which one are you living? Hey you, and Happy New Year! Thanks for putting me back in your ears, this time in 2019. If you're brand new here, welcome! So you guys know that I got barre certified back in November, which, oh my goodness, training weekend totally kicked my ass. I could barely walk for like 5 days afterwards. But we opened up this past Wednesday, and I taught a couple classes, which It was incredible getting back to teaching. I think that, you know, I've been performing since I was 6 and always, always have loved being in front of a crowd and making people happy. And I think that teaching is one of those things. It just, it's kind of like performing. I love being up in front of people, making them smile, making them laugh, and it's just a way of I don't know, making everybody in the room feel good, and, and I just love it. So it's been super awesome, and I'm really excited to be back on this workout instructor journey. Uh, so anyways, that's been awesome. But my guest today has always had a really special place in my heart. We grew up in the same tiny town in northern Arizona, and through this podcast Fate brought us back together to catch up, and she has had one hell of a journey. I love how honest she is. She even made me cry today, which isn't hard to do, but still. All right, here is the beautiful Jess. Hello.

Hey girl.

Hey you, how are you?

I'm so good. Good. Just getting over those crazy holidays.

Oh my gosh, it's been so hard for me too. That meme that's been going around like, what day is it? What time is it? I'm like, I totally feel that way.

Yeah, right. I know. Not at all.

I know. I'm like, what have we even been doing for the last month?

Right? I was like, oh, I'm supposed to call Kristjana Hillberg. Okay, I'm going to call her. I'm going to call her. I promise I'm going to call her. I'm going to remember.

Oh, I'm so glad we finally got to do it. It's literally been probably a decade. Since we've chatted. It really has been way, way, way too long, so I'm excited to finally catch up.

I know, me too. I know. And the big reason I reached out to you was because I was listening to your podcast, and I mean, just the different background stories and stuff. I was like, I have— I, I don't know, I felt like I had to put my story out there and I was like, Kristjana Hillberg is the perfect person that I could talk to about him. Like, that would be so perfect.

Oh, I love that. I know, I was so, so happy you did because like I said, it's just been way too long. And I remember we used to— I, I mean, I used to just love you so much when we were in high school, and I was so happy. I was like, finally we get to catch up, even if it is through a recording, whatever.

I know.

So what exactly, what led you to where you are now? Let's just start from, did you meet your husband like right away when you left home, or how did that, how did that all happen?

Well, I started a relationship with, um, I'm sure you probably know Brandon McLaughlin, and I, um, was in a relationship with him for 2 years, and we bounced around. I lived in Casa Grande for like a year, and like we bounced around a lot, but I was not happy. It was really a mentally abusive relationship, very controlling. He just, he wanted it his way and no other way. And being like 19, 20, I was just like, okay, whatever, like this is perfect, you know, he's taking care of me and, you know, we can go and do fun stuff. But, um, then I started going to dental assisting school and My very first day, I walk into the classroom and I'm the last person there. Like, I was so late. And I walk in and the only seat open is right next to the most hot guy in the class. Like, I was like, he was the hottest guy I've ever seen in my life. I was like, ooh, I get to sit next to him. Just thinking, you know, like, it's the fun of being in school and stuff. But I mean, we started like right when I sit down, he said something sarcastic to me about being late, and right then it just sparked a connection. Like, we were both sarcastic as hell with each other, and then he started following me around like a puppy dog. And I was like, but I was about to get married. I was— I mean, I was engaged, and I mean, we were talking about getting married and everything, and I would talk to all my friends at school about getting married. And then, I mean, one day it was one random Tuesday, we just went to City Hall and got married.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. So I like ended up going to school and being like, oh yeah, we got married, kind of thing. And, um, two— not even two weeks later, Chris, seriously, I was just like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I have to I just have to like get out of this relationship. And Jeff, my husband, he, um, ended up going into the hospital and having to take an ambulance. And I was with one of our friends from school, and I text him and I was like, what the hell? You didn't tell me that you were going to the hospital. Like, what's going on? And we had never text before because just for the whole like courtesy thing and like of our other people. He was dating someone, you know, I was just barely married. It was like we didn't need to talk or anything outside of school. And so, but then once he was in the hospital and like that was the first time we had talked out of school, it just, I mean, the emotions and all of the feelings just flooded. And so it was, it was pretty easy for me to be like, okay, yeah, I need to get out of this relationship. And move on. 2 weeks after getting married, I left Brandon and didn't— I mean, he asked if we— he wanted to go to, like, counseling or anything, but I was just out of the relationship. So I left him and immediately jumped into a relationship with Jeff, but he had a 3-year-old son and that was— I don't know, I was enthralled with him. He was so cute. I was, you know, 21. I always wanted kids, so to have a little boy that was like, I don't know, super sweet with me and everything, that— it was, it was awesome. It was such a good feeling. And because I always wanted kids, it was— I don't know, I was okay with that. I was just like, let's do it, but I was in a really bad— I wasn't in a great spot to take on a parenting position. I was a complete pothead. So I, I mean, smoking constantly, constantly throughout the day, to the point where, I mean, Jeff was even like, you have to stop doing this if you want to be with me. So, um, So I ended up stopping. I stopped smoking. And so we started this little thing together. Jeff had him every Thursday through Sunday. So every weekend of ours was taken up with, you know, doing stuff with him and being that kind of parent. And he, he started calling me stepmom pretty fast. No, I think I, I got I got pregnant with my first Xander when me and Jeff were only together for 4 months.

Okay.

So once I got pregnant, it was my hormones and feelings towards it were like, Max is also mine. Like, I also want Max, you know, to be able to have nothing different with Xander that we can just, you know, have them both call me mom and have it not be a big deal. Well, that's, that's when the trouble started, because coming in as a 21-year-old, you know, I didn't know what it was like to be a step-parent. I didn't know where my boundaries were.

Yeah. Is there an age difference between you and Jeff? And like his, uh, and his ex.

Uh, yeah, yeah, there was— there's only a year difference between me and her, and her name's Chris.

Okay.

And for— and for me and Jeff, it's 3 years. Oh, okay. So it's not too—

not too much.

No, but she got pregnant when she was 18, so she had been a mom since she was 18, 19. And then I'm a 21-year-old just coming in and thinking, oh, well, no, like, I love him. I love him so much. Like, I want him to be mine. Mm-hmm. And I mean, it didn't help having all the pregnancy hormones, of course. And so we would get in a lot of fights. It would end up her stopping us outside the car when Um, we would drop off Max and she would be like, Max just came inside and told me that you're her— that you're his real mom. And, you know, all that stuff started happening. And so I had always tried to be like, okay, we can all get along, it can be civil and stuff. But me coming in not realizing what my role in Max's life was made it so much harder because then I had Kris who was very upset all the time because I was stepping in where she didn't want me to. I mean, I know you were married before, so I mean, did you kind of like— did you have to deal with kind of that same thing? Like, no, I like think—

I think a little bit of it, um is a little different for me. Me and Lil's stepmom were friends before, so I've known her. I mean, I've known her for now a decade. Well, almost a decade. So I knew her almost as long as I've known Ammon, and I always, always loved her. Um, I'm gonna get emotional. I did not— wow, I didn't think about that. Um, I've always, always loved her and always knew that she was an incredible woman, so kind and so sweet. And so, yeah, it is a little bit emotional for me because of course, when you get divorced, there's so many emotions involved.

Yeah.

Anyway, you know, like there's hurt and there's regret and there's shame and there's there's just so many things that come along with it. And then to have that person who you had a child with now start a life with somebody else was like, you know, almost like ripping your heart out. Even though I was past the point of, of like wanting to be in a relationship with him, but he was still a part of me because Lil is, is a part of me, you know? And so there was just so many emotions. But I think that it helped a lot that I knew, knew Lisa and knew what a great woman she was. And so deep down, even through all of the hurt, I was like comfortable and at ease because I knew that Lil was taken care of. Exactly. And I knew that Lisa would, would truly love her. Like, maybe not like I did, but I mean, in the same way, like she would take care of her and provide for her. And talk with her and comfort her, you know, through life just the same way, you know. And so I think it was kind of a relief a little bit because you never know, and you never know who your significant other, you know, your, your ex is going to end up with. And so you just pray that it's with somebody who will take care of your baby. And so I was so lucky that it, that it ended up being Lisa, you know?

Yeah, definitely. And you know, with Chris, it was like I wanted to be really nice, so I— and I mean, you know me, I'm a pretty— I'm a super friendly person. I like to not have confrontation, and I like people to like me.

So, oh yeah, oh, I mean, I think everyone, everyone does, but you are just like, oh my gosh, you're the sweetest, sweetest, sweetest ever. So I can only imagine you being like, okay, let's work everything out.

Yeah, I bought her a gift card for her birthday when I was first with Jeff. It was maybe a month, and I was like, it's her birthday, she needs to have something from Max. And so I like bought her a gift card. But you know, Jeff and her relationship ended very badly. He was in the Marine— he was in the Marines, and you know, she cheated on him multiple times. So there was a lot of hurt and anger from Jeff. Because they had been, um, divorced for about a year and a half when I met him. So there was still a lot of fresh hurt and everything from him, and his parents were just as bad. So I was getting a lot of negative about her from everybody else, and, you know, I wasn't able to actually know her, so we never took the chance to get to know each other. It was automatically me just— me being way too pushy with her. And now that I think about it, I, I realize that as a stepparent, there are certain roles that you take and that you have to step back on that I didn't actually know.

What do you think you were pushy about now that you're looking back years later?

Um, the fact that because I was having my own child with Jeff, and I felt that it was my first child, and I was worried about him calling me Jess or calling me stepmom because that's what Max called me. Okay, so, so with that, I, I didn't necessarily get pushy about it, but it was me— him being like, oh well, my real mom, and I'm like, well, I'm real too. Like, we can call— like, she's just your mom, you can say your mom. But I did things like that that, I mean, were very selfish and were very mean to Max. I feel like now looking back, I, I mean, he automatically started calling me mom because I was doing everything for him. But in my mind, like, Jeff was telling me that and his parents were telling me that Kris wasn't a good mom and that she wasn't there for Max and that, you know, she always had to work and he was always with other people. So for me, I just took it as like, okay, well, I'm gonna step in. This is gonna be, you know, I'm gonna do this and he's gonna be mine. Meanwhile, in the background, my dad is telling me, you know, be careful when you get into a relationship, you know, when they have a kid. You have to make sure this is what you want. They will get attached. You need to make sure that this is fully— you're fully committed. I was being like a young kid stupid, and I was like, yeah, I got this, no, it's fine, like, I, I know, I know I can do this kind of thing. But I mean, for long story short, for about a year, me and Chris hated each other. And it was to the point where this huge weight was just on both of us all the time. And it was, it was just hard no matter what. Any little decision, if she needed Max for more time or we needed Max for a certain time on her days, like, it was miserable. It was absolutely miserable. We didn't We didn't like click on anything until about a year and a half ago. We sat down for coffee and she was like, I feel like we really just need to get together and just talk. So we both went out for coffee by ourselves and we just started talking and we cried and, you know, she had had a miscarriage. Miscarriage, uh, I think it was maybe like a few months before we had talked.

But is she now— is she now in her own relationship or in a new marriage?

Um, well, she has her own things going on, but she is in a relationship right now.

Okay.

And— but— and she does have another child, so she has a little boy. His name's Maverick, and he's the cutest little boy in the world. He's so pretty. But with— she, she was in another relationship when we went and sat down, and it was more so, let's just get this all out in the open. Let's— okay, let's figure out why. Because we had always texted, and you know how misconstrued text can get. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So when she had miscarried, I I mean, we were having one of our text fits, and I had told her, um, that, you know, she's missing out because she's never going to be able to find, like, see Max with another sibling. And I was ruthless.

Break time. Let's hear a little about our sponsor. All right, time to get back to Jess. I really do think that most, if not all of us, have been there because it's— I mean, it's impossible to know what others are going through. And I think when we are hurting ourselves or when we're frustrated, we sometimes just lash out and say things. And what sucks is that you can never take words back. And I had to learn that over and over again, which sucks because when you're finally, you know, when you finally healed yourself and you're older and wiser, you look back. And I think that that's one thing that just really— the one thing that really pains my heart is because who I am, like, who my soul is, is such a kind, loving person that would never ever want to hurt anybody. And I've hurt people by my words and actions sometimes. And so I think that we can all relate to that, where we've just said things and then later realized, wow, that was really hurtful. And sometimes sorry doesn't cut it, but I— it's incredible that you two are now like— you're close with her, aren't you? Like, you guys are really close.

Uh, yeah, we're super close. We are. I mean, I would consider her my best friend.

We—

she comes over pretty much all throughout the week, even when it's Max's time, or when it's her time with Max, or when it's our time. It's so nice now. We— I mean, we switch days as she needs them. Like, she is a single mom of 2 kids now. She has a lot going and, um, going on in her life. And so I feel like it was just meant to be that we're best friends and that we're all this little family now because she needs us, like, and we want to be there for her. And I, I don't know, I guess that's the thing that's changed the most, is that I don't mind watching her son Maverick. Like, we are raising all of our children as siblings together.

I think that's— it's— I think it's incredible. And I, I love that you guys are both, you know, just supportive of each other and helping each other. When this— when you guys first became close, what was Jeff's reaction? Was he like nervous or was he completely supportive of, of it all?

He was very upset for the fact that I was going to talk to her by myself, and even though it was me and her that had the issues, to him he still had the issues with her that were never resolved. He still didn't ever get the closure of, why did you do that to me? Like, I was faithful to you the whole time. Like, what, what was it that made you do that to me? And he never got that. So I feel like for him, he was upset at the fact that he wasn't getting closure, but I was happy now. Like, and me and her had our closure to start this new chapter.

Yeah, I can see that. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So what about now? Like, did it take him a while? Did they have to finally have a discussion?

He took a while. He— I mean, they had like a 10-minute discussion where it was— I mean, she, she's the kind of person that likes to keep things in the past and she doesn't want to rehash it, and it had been so long that, and like they had already moved on, that she didn't feel like it needed to be rehashed. So they had like a 10-minute conversation, and then Jeff has just worked through his feelings. And I think the biggest thing with it is I've talked to him all throughout it, making sure how he feels. And so they, so they are really good friends now too. And it's funny because He— we were texting on one of our group texts and it was just me, her, and him. And she said— and she said something and he's like, this is why you're my best female friend. And I looked at him after he told me, I was like, what? She's your best female friend? But the— but the— and of course, you know, my jealousy like sparks, like, no, she's not your best friend. And I still have those moments where I, I'm like, well, they did have a past and stuff, but he's like, no, I didn't mean like that. He's like, you're my queen. You're not even like in the same realm as friends.

So you guys basically co-parent all together?

We do, which is really— it's really nice. As of right now, her little boy Maverick is only 9 months. And so bringing them all together, it's still a new dynamic. Like, every time we go to a party or something together and I have to introduce Chris, like, hey, well, this is Max's mom, and they're like, wait, what? Because I don't know if you've heard of Bunco. Have you heard of that dice game?

Bunco?

Bunco.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, so like I would go and play that and I brought her with me one time. And so introducing her, I just introduced her as my friend, but then as everybody's talking and stuff, they realize the dynamic of our relationship and they're like, oh, I could never do that. I can't. No.

I think that sometimes people in their mind, um, because it's just such a like a taboo topic sometimes. Like, I think that people in their mind have it as, oh, step-parents don't get along, or exes don't get along. You, you know, it's just like, that's what everybody has built it up in their head to be. And I will never forget when I was, gosh, 18 or 19, for some reason I thought that it was a good idea to to be a T-ball coach when I was in college, which was not smart because, hi, hello, I was in college and wanting to stay out, you know, till 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 AM with my friends. And when you coach a T-ball team on Saturday morning at 8 AM, you don't really want to get up. But it was a really fun experience and I met some incredible people doing it. And one— no, two of the kiddos on my team, it was a really interesting dynamic. So the mom had a son and the dad had a daughter, and the mom and dad were just really good friends, and they bought a house together in Flag, and they both lived there with the kiddos. And then their exes— so, you know, the mom and dad of these kiddos were like best friends with them as well, but they lived separately. So one night they like invited me over for dinner and I went over there and like True's mom came over and Amari's dad came over with their significant others. And it was just all of these parents at this house and just chatting like they were best friends. And it really just kind of opened my eyes to the fact that just because you are separated or divorced or whatever does not mean that you can't get along. And my parents got divorced when I was 14, and they didn't speak and still don't speak. So I think that to see that, I was like, oh, wow. And so then taking it now, you know, 7, 8 years later.

Yeah.

And it was now my life. I was like, wow, okay. So I, I've seen lots of different, lots of different couples and how they handle it. And I worked in a law firm for a while and saw that dynamic as well. And I, I love that and I crave that is the friendship because I feel like for the kiddo, it's the absolute best way to be because then they know that you are on the same side no matter what. And You know, it just, it helps.

I think for Max, sometimes he's like, oh no, I have all my parents together, so I'm good, right?

I'm screwed.

Or he gets all of his siblings together and he's the oldest out of all of them. And I mean, we, me and Jeff have 3 kids together and then Chris has 1. And so he has all these little monkeys that he has to wrangle. I just need some time. Right. But for all of us, and like growing up, and as he gets older, and you know, he's only 8, so he's got his way of thinking still. He wants his own time and everything. But as they get older and like just see that it's possible to be happy and to push negative out of your life, so you feel like a huge weight has been lifted. I really do. And the negative that you can get out of your life just from something so simple. Me and Chris sat down and I mean, we are like the same person. It's the weirdest thing. Like I tell Jack all the time, you have a— you definitely have a type because we are so much alike and we didn't give each other the chance to know it. Until it— until we sat down and finally got over ourselves. I feel like, yeah, we had to get over our feelings and realize this is all about Max. This is what is going to be best for Max. And once we did that, I mean, it's just been going great so far. Like, I feel like I'm really— even when Max is at our house and we're all together and he calls, he just says, Mom, and I always am very courteous of her and I let her answer first. And then after he's like, no, my other mom. And then I feel bad. I'm like, dang, I should have just answered so she doesn't have to hear my other mom, you know? Yeah. But now I'm thinking more about her feelings instead of my own feelings about it, which really helps is I'm out of my own head and I realize like I had two pregnancies that put me over the top every single time. But the fact that she could get over what I said to her and I can get over the things that she said to me and make us one big family— and she's actually planning on moving in with us in May.

What?

Oh yeah.

Oh my gosh, that is gonna— is there like a basement area where she kind of has, or is there just an— how's that gonna work?

As of now, we, cause we are moving out to Queen Creek area and she lives 5 minutes away from us. So when we decided we were going to move out there, it was, you know, a big talk. Max has to have schools. We have to make sure it's like equal for both of us and it's okay. And she is to the point where she's like, I'll move wherever. I'm fine with just going wherever. So we were like, okay. And it was actually Jeff who put it out there and was like, you know, if you need some time to find a place or, you know, just have a little bit of time in between moving out there and getting yourself set up, then you can move in with us. And so, wow. And it's— and for me, that's huge for Jeff because never— he's always been the kind of like hold back still on the relationship, and he doesn't— and he never wants to hurt my feelings and get too close to her. So we're always having to work around that, but it's really— it's, it's come a long way and it's so awesome. And I don't know, that's why I had to put it out there, Kris, because it's like, it's the craziest thing that we never thought would happen in our lives.

No, I, I'm so glad that you shared it because like I said earlier, I think it's just kind of a taboo topic that people, we don't really talk about that or talk about even like, if it was up to me, we would totally start a commune and we would all live together and we would all be best friends and all help each other. Hey everybody, this is Maya from The MW Projects. I hope you all had a good holiday and a great start to the new year. Just wanted to hop on here quick and let you let you know that the shop is back open and ready for new orders. So definitely reach out and let's get connected.

Now let's get back to the episode.

I'm older now, like almost 30, which I can't believe. It's so funny, when I was 18, I thought 30 was so old, and now I'm thinking 30 is the new 18. 30 is so young. We have so much life ahead of us, and we're finally older and wiser and who, you know, just more stable, which I love. So anyway, I feel like I've literally lived multiple lifetimes already. Like, I feel like my life has been broken up in these huge chunks, and I've been a different person and molded into a different person throughout. How do you feel about that? Like, do you feel like you've kind of lived multiple lives because you were raised a certain way and then went to college and were, you know, like, what are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, you know, I do. I feel like life happens in increments, like, because up until I was 18, I was going to church, you know, I was living the LDS life completely and I graduated and, you know, and then I had my time of finding myself and figuring out, okay, well, like, what do I want to do? Oh, I want to party for a while. Like, I want to go out and do whatever I want. And so, I mean, there was a lot of time where I was, I was not myself. I, and I realized that now, that I was just being this person that I thought I wanted to be. But then, you know, being in the relationship with Brandon, and that put me into a different aspect of it. And now I look back and I can't even imagine not being with Jeff. It's so— I just feel like it's destined.

I totally feel the same way. Kurt and I have talked about, about it before. Like, we met exactly when we were supposed to, because if we would have tried before, there's like, there's no way, right?

And, you know, it's hard. It's hard to get past the feelings of he has a past. Okay, I wasn't the only woman in his life. And even having her still be in like our lives is— it's hard and it's something that we work through. But I mean, if I can stress anything to anybody who's listening to this, like communication is what it's all about because he has— he is completely in love with me. And even though I don't feel it sometimes, like if I express my like my fears and everything to him, he reassures me, you know, like that it's just my insecurities coming out. And so, I mean, I feel like it's really all about communication, right? Oh, absolutely.

Communication is huge, huge, huge. It, it's so important to express exactly how you feel because people can't read your mind.

Right. And that's what I noticed too. I'll have something that bugs me and before I would just let it go, but now he can see that it bugs me and we automatically just get it worked out. Like, and with this dynamic of having her in our life so much, and I mean, Jeff gives her hugs every time she comes and every time she leaves, like it's, and so for me, knowing that they had that relationship is a hard thing. But when we talk about it and he reassures me and he tells me, you know, like, there's a reason why they had Max and they didn't work out together. So, right. So I—

when I think— I think too, there's just— there's just different types of love. And I mean, he still, I'm sure, cares for her in the sense of like, that's his oldest son's mom, you know, and he wants her to be okay. And just because I can relate to that in the sense of, I always hope that Ammon's happy and healthy and that he truly, you know, is, is doing everything that he wants to do and is okay. But I, I don't, even think about those feelings anymore, you know, like it's just not even— it's just not even there. So I can, I can understand. And I mean, even if thinking about how you love your best friends or how you love your brother, you know what I mean? Or love somebody you've known your whole life. It's just like a different love. You know, you can— love is different and can be expressed differently. I don't know if that makes sense.

It does. No, it completely does because I feel, I feel like that's how it is. And, you know, they were so young when they got together that they are so good as friends. Like, they are awesome friends. And I think it's nice to know that they have come to the realization that they are better as friends and that they weren't supposed to stay together in that way. And that, I think it helps Max. To in that way.

But no. Yeah, well, I am so, so glad that you reached out to me and wanted to share this story because I think it's important. And it's important to— gosh, I don't even know what I'm trying to say. I just, I really love your heart and I love that you have made this, this life work for you. And it sounds like you guys are truly happy. And I'm so— that makes my heart happy for you.

Thanks so much, Kristjana Hillberg. I'm I'm so glad that you started this podcast because you're doing great things, girl.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. It means so much to me that you take time to listen. Seriously, I love you. Did you know that you can help support the podcast? It's kind of like a monthly subscription. It helps me purchase quality recording equipment like a microphone or headphones so I can keep bringing you amazing guests with great content. If you decide that's something you want to do, it's totally optional. You can go to the Anchor app and click support. Easy peasy. Also, when you have time, head over to iTunes and leave a review. Happy Monday. You're gonna rock this week. Sending you love.