Dealing With Divorce

Welcome to my podcast, The Red Door, where humans share their stories. Our stories are what bring us together, connect us, and how we feel a little less lonely, giving you the reminder that you are not on this journey by yourself. As a collective, we share emotions and feelings, not the same way, but we each know what anger feels like, frustration, abandonment, insecurity, and what shit is fake or not in alignment with us. It is my mission to provide a platform for you to get vulnerable and share your experiences with the world. There is always at least one person listening who will be transformed by your message. Remember that the next time imposter syndrome pops up and tells you, you aren't ready, or you aren't good enough. Or that no one cares. Tell that voice to fuck off and then DM me. I'm here for you now and always, not just to hype you up, but to guide you down a path of mindset shifts so you can do the holy shit, this is hard inner work and create the life you love. If you're ready, enter here. Okay, I have not done a guest intro in a while, but these two are close to my heart. I actually lived with them when they were 7, so it was super fun to chat with them now that they are teenagers. They are hilarious, and they also warmed my heart. I also come from divorced parents, and my oldest, if you've been listening for long enough, know that she also lives in a split household. So it was cool to chat with them and just hear their viewpoints on having stepparents and advice that they give others who are maybe going through the same thing. Here are my favorite twins. Okay, so tell me, when was the first— or I guess, how old were you guys when your dad started dating?

Um, I think we were 4, and he started dating uh, this girl with a son. His name was— I don't know his name.

Her name was like Sarah with a T. Yep.

And they started dating, and they like— it was really weird because with Mike, I feel like we knew him better, but then when he started dating someone, we didn't really know her very well. And they were always—

it was kind of like an in-and-out relationship, like their entire relationship. Yeah, they fought a lot. Yeah.

And you guys remember that? Yes. Like before?

Yeah, even— well, I think we were 5, and like they would just storm out of the house.

I remember them like screaming. We'd be in the car on our way to daycare, they'd be like screaming, all like, don't talk, don't, don't say anything about Oliver would say that? Yeah.

How much older is he than you? Just 2 years, right?

Yeah, he was— no, he was 3.

3 years. But still, he was like 8.

Yeah, he was still going to elementary school.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so then what happened after that? He started dating his wife now, or what?

Well, then he broke up with her, and then shortly after that he started dating our neighbor, who is his wife now. And we actually really liked her. They didn't seem to fight in front of us very often. Um, in the beginning at all.

And she like was nice to us and like cared about us.

She did like us.

Mm-hmm. She bought us stuff sometimes.

She didn't have any other children. She wasn't like— and she was a little less high maintenance at first than his last girlfriend, for sure.

Okay. Yeah, but she was your neighbor.

She was, yeah.

So you guys already kind of known her?

Not really, because she lived with someone else, and my dad had waved to her every day, but we just thought they were like besties or something.

But yeah.

Yeah.

And then she moved in with us or started staying off and on there for a while.

Okay.

And sold her house, moved in, and we lived in that house for a while. And then got married in that house. Yeah.

Oh, did they move?

They moved since then. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So when did you, when did you like actually start seeing or feeling a change? Like when did she start acting differently?

Um, I think it gradually happened as we got older. Like when we were younger, I think she enjoyed taking us places. And I don't think she had to be nice to us. Number one, they weren't married.

I don't know if she enjoyed it as much as she felt like she like had to, you know, be nice to us at least and like act like—

because they were dating and they were dating and they weren't married.

We were also a lot younger. And then as we grew up and slowly after they got married, it was more of like she acted like it was a chore for us to be there and she just would not make conversation. And like now it's very little conversation we ever have and we do not go places with her. And like, if we're sick, she tells us she doesn't want us over there.

Like, very like blatant.

Like, she'll just be like, you're sick, don't come.

She's like, I don't want you guys. Like, we don't want you here.

She likes to—

yeah, she heard— she also loves her dogs.

Like, yeah, tell me about that. Let's talk about that story, because didn't one of her dogs eat a sock?

Oh yeah.

And what happened? She like— it became like this big thing.

Well, we've always been in charge of the dogs. Like, we've always had— she barely has ever had any trust in us, had like any She's— I don't know what she thought of us, but she doesn't think very highly of any of us. So, um, her dog died about eating a sock, and he's eaten many things before though.

Yeah, her dog had eaten like a bunch of stuff and just gotten out of surgery for eating a pom-pom off a hat.

Oh, okay.

So then he ate a sock, or she ate a sock and died, and then she blamed us, and like it was a huge thing, and she just— it was all our fault because it was one of our socks. But we only lived there like 3 out of 8 days. So that dog did not eat the sock when we were even there. And we're also going for like, if the dog makes a mess when we leave, it's also our fault because we let it happen, even though not.

Well, yeah, obviously. And what about your dad though? Like, could you go to your dad and be— and like talk to him about this stuff, or no?

Oh, he doesn't ever really blame us for anything. It's definitely just Allison, and he won't yell at us. And sometimes he knows that we'll get in so much trouble. Like one time I think Violet broke a vase and he covered for her.

Yeah, it was like a plate, just so Allison would not get super angry.

And Allison doesn't even yell directly at us. Normally she just yells at my dad, and then our dad will tell us.

Yeah, I think I like broke this plate by like dropping it a little too heavily, something on it, and it like cracked. It like chipped a little. And he was like— first he was super mad, you know, he was like clenching his teeth, whatever. Then he was like, all right, just tell Allison that I did this. I was— and I was— this was like a year ago, so I was like old enough to actually take the blame for something. I wasn't little. And he was like, all right, tell Allison I did this, you know. I'll try to super glue it back together. And then he was like, oh yeah, I got in trouble for it. And I was like, but why do you— like, he always gets in trouble for what we do. And she, yeah, she just doesn't really even talk to us or acknowledge us super much.

Does that make you feel weird that your dad wouldn't just be like, I don't know, like, this isn't a big deal, Allison, what the hell?

Yeah, I don't think he's ever stood up for us in front of her, like, or in front of us, I guess. If we're in trouble, he just lets us get in trouble and like, it's our fault. And being there is so uncomfortable. Like, it's never really— it's not our home because we're always on like eggshell. We're walking on eggshells constantly because if you do one thing wrong, then it's a whole thing. Like, if the dog gets in your room and eats— like, one time the dog got into my room and ate a pack of melatonin. And oh no, well, I didn't— well, it was only like a couple, but I didn't tell anyone because I knew I'd get in so much trouble. Even though my door— I have to keep my door open because we don't have air vents. And my bag was on my bed and the dog had chewed open my bag and got in it. So like there's nothing I could have done to prevent it. And I didn't tell anyone because if I would have, I would have gotten so much trouble. And the dog was fine.

So how is it different living at your mom's house? Like, is it completely night and day different?

Yeah, I don't own one thing at my dad's. I do not keep one personal item there. Like my room there isn't really mine. All I have is a bed. I have bedding from a couple years ago. I have one dresser, but there's nothing in anything. I don't own any personal items there, and here is where I keep everything, like face wash. And if I go there, it's like traveling. I pack a bag, I pack face wash, I pack medicine, I pack anything I would need.

I have a couple clothes there just because I'm lazy and I don't remember enough.

You also go there more often.

I do, I go there more often. I'm a little more flexible, and I think I also go there more often because Lily doesn't. And Lily, this is not the wrong with you, but like, I feel like I have to go there just because it'll, you know, like compensate, kind of.

Yeah, like if Oliver goes there, but he will go out and he'll, you know, spend time with his friends.

So I feel like I have to stay there just so he— like, he won't even be there. Sometimes he'll be at the gym and are gone the whole day, and I feel like I just have to be there so he— almost like protect his feelings.

Yeah.

And it's just— yeah, it's a lot different.

I have like nothing there, but I just, you know, I feel like you need to. What about Mike and your mom? Would you— I mean, what is their relationship like compared to your dad and his wife?

Well, how does it differ? I think that with my— like, I actually have conversations with Mike. I would say I almost have a better relationship with Mike than I do with even my mom sometimes. But I— and also I feel like this is my home. If I was like, oh, well, I want to go home, this would be what I was talking about. I would be talking about this house. And I also— they're also more willing to do stuff for me. Like, I don't think my dad, if I have track or if I had basketball, he would not come and pick me up late at night. But Mike, on Mondays, he drives me to track until like 8 o'clock and then he drives me to track till like 10. And he stays with me the entire day. And my dad would never do that.

Really?

It's just something he would not, he would not go out of his way and mess up his schedule to alter ours.

Or like, if I, you know, my shoes are full of holes and super bad, I would like expect my parents to be like, oh yeah, I can help you buy a new pair of shoes. But like when my dad offered to buy me some shoes and I was like, It was crazy to me that he would buy me nice shoes or buy me something with his own money without complaining about it.

That was totally out of character.

Yeah, without like throwing a fit too. He, he really makes— like Lily said, if he has to go out of his way to do something, to pick you up, he like makes— he like throws a fit about it, makes it seem like it's all like your problem and everything is your fault.

But at the same time, if I, if I like have said sometimes I didn't go to my dad's because I didn't have a ride over there and I knew he wasn't gonna come pick me up, but then when I told him that, I was like, you weren't offering. He was like, 'Well, we do ask, but he complains and complains and complains about doing it. I mean, eventually he might do it, but he complains about it. And like the entire time he just makes the experience terrible about going, and then you feel guilty about making him pick you up. So I'd rather just stay there because I know that Mike and my mom will pick me up no matter what, or I know I can get a ride home without having to hear someone complain about it, even though that is their job.' Do you think that him doing that though has taught you a lesson of like, figure it out yourself?

Or do you think it's actually been like more detrimental than it has been helpful?

Well, I think I can, like I can, I think it's been more detrimental just because I can't, like I cannot drive these places. Like it's not like a walking distance. And I like my job from Mom and Mike, they don't just know, like they don't know my schedule, all my alerts, all my sports alerts come to my phone. So I know my schedule and I, that's my responsibility to tell them. Tell them when to pick me up or when I'm done or when it starts. But with my dad, it's just like, well, if I tell him, he doesn't really want to do it. Like, if it's not in Sioux Falls, he's not really up to do it.

And yeah, I also think it's made— personally, it's made me so scared to ask anyone to do anything for me. Or if like someone, someone will do something for me, sometimes I'll feel like really bad about it. They'll be like, oh, it was no problem, like they didn't have to do anything out of their way. But it'll make me feel so bad And I just, I get too— sometimes I get scared to ask people unless I'm like really close with them. I don't like when people do things for me because it just makes me feel like I'm like in their way or hurting them somehow.

Yeah, like inconveniencing them. Okay, so what about— I mean, have you always felt like you can go to your mom basically about anything and she's pretty like even-keeled, or does she overreact sometimes?

I wouldn't say anything. I think it really depends on the mood she's in, or like, you know, obviously the subject, but Yeah, we have a very open relationship. Like, I'll be like, oh yeah, I cheated on my math test yesterday. She's like, cool, did you pass? Um, but I think it's pretty open. She does seem to overreact sometimes over like very simple things.

Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Just, I don't— I think my relationship with my mom hasn't always been great, but it is 1,000 times better than with my dad. Like, with my dad, I go to his house twice a month probably, and I don't really talk to him. Like, I'm either in my room, and if I am talking to him, it's usually he— he— like, someone has to prompt the conversation for me just because it's awkward talking there. And like, recently since I've been going less and less to his house just because it's uncomfortable, and I've like— I've been able to express that I don't like going there, it's like every time I go I feel even more out of place just because like, well, I haven't seen you in a while, but he doesn't ever try to fix why I'm uncomfortable there. Like, he's never cared to why I feel like— he got mad when I told my mom I was uncomfortable, I think like a couple months ago about going. And I just, I did not like going. And it was a lot of stress. It was causing me a lot of anxiety and I was like having trouble sleeping. But she— and when I told him, he was more angry and he did not care. Like he just, he was like, why? I feel like I created great environment. He didn't like ask me generally. He was just like, well, I do great. He was just like, he just was putting me in the wrong and him in like, he's always right and there's no arguing.

When you guys were littler, was there like a set schedule? Like, listen, you're going to your dad's for 3 days and then you're coming back here? Or has it always kind of been like, do you guys want to go? Like, no matter how old? Because I know his schedule's been kind of him, you know, with his job, it's just different.

I think that the whole like, do you want to go, recently started. It would be like, I remember if we were younger and we were like sick, we wouldn't want to go over there because it's always just been not our house, you know.

I don't think it's always not been our house. Like, I think before Allison came and— oh well, even when we were little and Allison was there, it was— it was— I actually enjoyed going to my dad's house when we were little. It was— I never— but I think it also changed as I got older because I got more priorities. I enjoyed hanging out with friends. I had more of a social life. I enjoyed going to the gym that is at my mom's house, and it's closer to school. All my stuff is here. When I was little, I had no stuff. Right. It could go anywhere and it didn't really bother me. And it was definitely more of a set schedule the entire time. Like, you would go there because that was our dad's day. And as we got older, that definitely changed more, especially because of Oliver, or we just had more plans going on. But when we were younger, those were our days. Like, it was the same with holidays. Even if we were on vacation, like, we would plan it around someone else's days.

What I was going to say is, like, I— it has always been pretty set schedule. I remember Personally, I never— I guess I got a little bit older. I remember it being like, oh, that's not really, you know, like I'm comfortable over there. I like going over there, but it's not my house. Like if I say I want to— like you said, if I was saying I want to go home, I want to come to here, to my mom's house. I, you know, I don't want to go over there. So if I'm sick, she was like, okay, do you want to come over or do you want to stay at your mom's house? That was like the really the start of like the whole freedom and choice thing. But it didn't really stretch out farther than that.

Uh, yeah, I think your schedule's— you're still pretty— you still go when you go.

Yeah, and I feel guilty about not going when like it's his day, especially if like it's only Oliver or Oliver has plans that day, then it just— it doesn't feel right.

Would you say that all of you have a different relationship with him, or do all of you kind of have the same relationship?

I would say Violet probably has the best relationship with him. It's more open and they talk more. And I think she sometimes genuinely enjoys going.

Oh, for sure. Sometimes I do like being over there, and it's not always super uncomfortable for me. Like, sometimes I'll be like over there and having a fun time. Like, we went to, um, we went to go eat out the other day, and it was like— I genuinely enjoyed it. I thought it was gonna be super awkward and like super uncomfortable, and it wasn't. It was— I genuinely enjoyed Spend time with him. But then there's other times where I'll be like, can I eat this cookie? Like, can I eat this? Do I— am I allowed to do this? Am I like— is he gonna yell at me? Is he gonna, you know, be mad at me for doing this? It's just very, um, tedious.

Like, you almost have to ask permission from your dad, whereas like here you guys pretty much can control like your schedule, what you eat, like what you do, like all of it.

That's a big part where I actually don't feel comfortable at his house is that I have no control. I love having control of anything I can control of. Like at his house, um, he makes supper and you eat what he makes. You don't get to make your own supper. Here I make my supper every night. I don't eat what Mike cooks and everyone else is fine with that. Here I pick my own groceries out for the week on Mondays and I keep them throughout the week. Then at his house I don't have groceries. So like if I want something, I'll pack it for the next day. When I was staying there 4 days a week, that was a lot more for me and that really stressed me out. Now that I only stay there 1 day a week, it's a lot easier. You're only packing one day worth of stuff. But food is all up to him. Like, no matter what I say, he'd be like, well, you can eat it, just pick what you don't want off of it.

Onto the food subject, I think it's— I, you know, here I cook my own supper most of the time. If I don't want to eat chicken, I get some mac and cheese. I like cook my own supper, and I, you know, I make my own lunch, I make everything. But over there, over there, it's like, um, hey, I, I especially— I knew you were coming over, so I went to baby, and I specially bought, you know, buns and, and food for your— for you to make lunch. He didn't have it in his fridge already. And then, yeah, he makes supper, which I enjoy because I'm lazy. But it's, it's definitely like I don't open the fridge there. I rarely go into the pantry unless he— him and Allison are gone. I, I like— I don't really do anything in the kitchen. And she— Allison has her food labeled like Allison only, and if you touch it, she will get really, really mad. Sometimes I do it just for fun, but like, she gets mad if you touch her peanut butter or her butter, or her— she, she buys boxes of cereal but you can't eat it.

So it almost sounds like you guys are living already like in like college with roommates, because that's totally like my experience in college was like when you live with 5 girls, like everybody has their own cupboard and space, you know what I mean? So it's not even like a family unit, it's more so just like don't touch my shit. You know what I mean?

But like their house, you don't get your own space. She gets her own space, he gets his own space, but you—

her dogs have their own space.

You get what you kind of get what's left. Like if I put my lunchbox in there, I would get yelled at sometimes like, oh, it doesn't belong there, now we don't have room for the other food. But they get— again, they get like a whole drawer, they get a whole cabinet. And like, it's also not really for me, but sometimes I can— Violet, like I think one time Violet had a cookie and then he like judged her the entire night.

Yeah, he was like, oh, are you gonna eat more cookies? Like, those are supposed to last me a while. I was like, oh, okay. And I had like— I, I'm still mad about this. I had 1.5 cookies. I had 1 cookie and the rest of the cookie he ate. And the— and he was like, who ate all my cookies? And I was like, oh, I had this many. He's like, nah, you had this many.

You had 6 cookies.

Are you gonna eat any more? Oh, I don't think you need any more cookies. And I was like, well, let's not. It just— it's—

yeah, he's a very uncomfortable environment, especially around food in there. Like, and especially if you aren't eating what he thinks you should be eating. Like, let's say for breakfast I had an orange. He's like, that's not a good breakfast. But also at the same time, I go to school and I have lunch at 10:30, so it's right.

Like, I'm fine.

I can, I can last till 10:30, and I don't need his nutrition advice because he's also older than me, he's bigger than me, he trains more than me. I don't—

yeah, his body composition is different than yours. Totally.

I think food is one of my least favorite things about going there. It is so uncomfortable for me. I like— food is just— I hate it. I hate being over there around mealtime or like just when I'm hungry. I brought a bunch of snacks from my mom's house over there, and I keep it in my bed in a drawer.

Oliver does that too.

Yeah, and it's because I feel so uncomfortable around him. Like, I remember a lot of time we'd be eating supper and I'd be going to get chips, like, that's enough chips for you. I was like, oh, thanks for that, I guess.

But here there's like none of that.

There's no— like, there's like— the pantry is all ours. There's not like— even if you hide food here, you're still probably gonna get it stolen. And like, if I put my name on drinks It's not mine. Like, sure, my name's on it, but that means— it's just— but I'm just telling other people I would like no one else to drink it, but no one really cares. Like, I don't get mad at— because they're not my groceries. I don't pay for them.

And there's no shame around eating. Like, there is— no one is gonna tell you, they'll be like, oh, too many chips, too much cookies. Like, there's no shame around eating.

Not enough protein.

Because everyone eats their own thing, and it's, you know, everyone cooks their own meal. Everyone eats their own thing. But over there, it's, it's very much like, it's hard to eat something without being like shamed or like told you're not eating the right thing, you're eating too much, you're not eating enough. It's just, it's very different environments.

Do you guys ever think that you had like some sort of, um, I don't know how to describe it. Like what a stepmom should be like or what a stepdad should be like? Because you have such a great stepdad, you know, who's so relaxed, so chilled out, that like, did you kind of want that or expect that and then you were like, whoa? Or was it kind of just like, whatever, like we have a good relationship with my mom, I don't even need—

Well, it's always been really different just because I always knew Mike since we were really little and he's known us So it's— I don't remember when I was 3 very well. So I always remember having Mike in my life. I don't remember him ever like being someone that we were uncomfortable around. Like, I remember when we were like 5, he took us to the swimming pool once. Like, I could just— I could recall a whole bunch of memories with him, but I can't recall memories without him.

I think I do have a better relationship with him definitely than Allison, but almost better than Dad. Like, I will have like conversations. I will eat whatever I want. Like, I will be very comfortable with Mike. And then it's a little— it's different. And I know I feel like I'm supposed to have like a paternal love or something maybe with him, but I don't. Like, obviously I love him, but I don't have the same like, like comforting feeling that Mike gives me that he doesn't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also when we met, and then Allison on the other hand was very— we met her at the age of like 7. I remember meeting her and I don't ever— and I remember a lot of times without her, so it's it's like, I remember having some of a good relationship with her, and it's not like she's evil. Like, I would never say she's evil. She just isn't— she doesn't want kids. She never has. She has— she owns the items that say, I don't want kids.

She wears them whenever we're around.

She obviously does not want children. So I don't— I don't think it's like— like, she didn't really— I mean, yeah, she signed up for it when she married my dad. So I never really— I don't really ever think I thought she was going to be as— like, I don't think I ever thought I was gonna be as close as her with Mike, just because ever since we met her, she's been very standoffish.

But she's never sat down with you and been like, listen, like, I don't want my own kids, but that doesn't mean that I like love you guys any less. Like, she's never said that.

She makes it very apparent she doesn't like us.

I don't want to say she doesn't like us.

Yeah, just doesn't, you know, love us. She, you know, makes it very known, I think. Just not even by what she says, but it's like how she acts around us. Like, she'll— if she's trying to talk to my dad, she'll talk to him, she'll like turn her whole body, talk to him, whisper, and then like turn back if we're like all sitting in the living room or something. And I think I remember a lot I'd be like, oh yeah, I have a stepmom. And they'd be like, oh, do you like her? And I always thought that was weird until I realized that, you know, most people don't have— some people don't have the great relationship I have, we have with Mike, with all of their stepparents. And I think, you know, it just— when I was younger, I was like, oh yeah, like her, she's great. I never really thought about it, but now I'm like, oh yeah, she's okay. Don't hate her. Nice gal.

Nice gal.

Yeah, I don't think she's ever really— she— I could— well, it's all— it's like just things that are different. As Mike tells me he loves me, he hugs— no, he doesn't. I was gonna say, I've got a couple hugs from Mike, but he has to be a little tipsy. And then— and he like— he verbally tells me he loves me, and he does things to show affection towards us, which is enough for me. But from Allison, I don't— could not tell you one time she's ever told me she loved me or have ever done anything to me to be like, oh, she loves— like, she likes me. But she's never shown any affection towards us.

So you would never just text her and like go to lunch with her or like get your nails done?

I barely text. Like, sometimes I did text a couple years ago. We sure— my mom made us text her Happy Mother's Day, but for us that was weird. She makes us do that a lot because she's not my mother. I don't feel like she has any— like, I don't think she's very motherly towards me. I wouldn't call her a mother.

We dropped a flower pot off the doorstep and did— we got back in the car and texted her like, hey, we dropped the flower pot off at your doorstep. Happy Mother's Day. For my mom, I wrote like a heartfelt note because I'm just a great child.

Also with her, like, her family— we don't know her family very well. Like, her, her— actually, her mom does get us gifts. Well, they've just been doing that since we met her, but we don't see them. We get a gift from them at Christmas Um, and then, but we haven't really met them. I mean, we met some of them and we used to go to their family events, but ever since then we have not been invited back.

We haven't gone to their family events in a while. We used to, like, when we were little, we'd get like little dresses from Target, go to Christmas with them. But then I think they, they started scheduling it around it. Like, we, we always go to Thanksgiving for my dad. It's just always what happens.

So last year when we were going to— sorry, I was super scribbly. Um, last year when you were going to go, he was like, well, can you— we were like, well, we'll be over at like And he was like, well, can you guys come at like 4? We're having Allison's Thanksgiving then. I was like, it wasn't like they tried. They don't— never have tried to invite us. They obviously don't want us there for her Thanksgiving, which is really weird because like Mike's family, that is my— like, I call her grandma, I call them my uncle, I call them my aunt, I call them my cousins. And I mean, it was my dad's family, but my dad's family is so small that it's like, I mean, I don't have a grandma, I don't have a grandpa. I have an aunt and a couple cousins and an uncle.

I don't honestly— I mean, I know we've been talking about like, oh, we knew Mike when we were younger, but we knew Allison when we were pretty young.

Like, we— no, I knew Tasha a lot longer.

Yeah, but I'd say we were young, like 7, 8. That's young. Anyways, um, I, I think it's just she's not inviting. I don't think it— you know, if she acted like Mike did, I think we could have had a closer relationship with her. I don't think it's as much of like difference in like times, because I think that if, if we met her and she was more inviting and she invited us to her family stuff, we would feel comfortable with— we would feel more comfortable with them. It's just, it's a lot, you know, different. She doesn't want to build a stronger relationship. I don't either, but she, she doesn't make any effort to try.

Do you guys remember, or were you too young to like them separating? Like, do you remember, like, my daddy and like— yeah, like your dad and your mom, do you remember them separating and like what that felt like? Or no, you guys were too little?

No. Well, ever since I was younger, I've asked if like my parents have divorced, has ever affected me. And when I was younger, it did not at all. I do not remember them separating. I've always lived with my parents in two separate houses. When it really started becoming a big point in my life was probably last year, last, uh, around when COVID started. I didn't go to my dad's for like 4 months because he was a— they were both first responders. So we were trying not— so we would— it was unsafe, so we didn't go. And to be honest, I— there wasn't much of me that missed him. And it was much— and then I started realizing more and more, I was so— I did not like— I did not enjoy going, but I would go and go. And I— but then at that point, I was literally dreading going every week so much. I would get so much anxiety and so stressed out. So that's when it really started to affect me, about last year. That's the only time I've ever felt like I didn't— I like having divorced parents affected me switching houses. Otherwise, that's what I've known. I've known that my entire life.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think it was much— I mean, I think I realized earlier on I didn't have the greatest relationship with my father. I think I've known that for a, for a while. It's just come, you know, more apparent in my mind now. But it was never the divorce that was like, oh yeah, that's the thing that's wrong. It was always just that relationship. But the divorce never really played a role. I mean, it played a small role in my life. Sometimes I'd use it to get out of like missing homework, but like it never— until I got a social life, it never played any— it never played any role in my life like that, you know, damaged my brain.

Do you guys have friends that have divorced parents?

I do have some, yeah, but it's— they're not— I think I have a couple, but most like, uh, one of my friends, he— his parent lives in Aberdeen and then his mom lives here, and he just travels to them on breaks, but he loves both of his parents. Like, he But he also has a really good relationship with his stepdad, and he has a good relationship with his dad, but he only sees him like 4 days a week. And that's the same with all my friends. They only see them like once or twice a month. Okay, during breaks. They don't have it. Yeah, they don't have a switching like thing.

Does anybody have kind of the same, um, experience where they're like, I am not close to, you know, one or the other, like a stepmom or a stepdad?

My friend, uh, one of my friends, she does, uh, not enjoy her like she doesn't talk to her dad and her dad has told her she doesn't love her and they don't like her and they don't want her there. And they literally— they used to hang out and now she was uncomfortable and she told them and she's like, I don't want to come. They're like, well, we don't want you here. So she does not go anymore unless she's forced.

So I think— okay, another question I have. Do you think that you kind of have always had like anxiety around going there? You just couldn't like name it until last year where you were like, oh my gosh, like I haven't gone there and I'm actually feeling like better and you were kind of like able to like name it finally?

I don't know. It wasn't. But also the stress before, I think I was always kind of a little stressed about going. But again, I didn't have a routine, I guess. I could— I kind of floated anything. And then having all that time to kind of think, I guess you're in quarantine, I don't really have much else to do and kind of develop a routine, develop things I enjoy doing and then going there was like very stressful. So I don't know if it was as bad as it was until then. I think it got really bad then.

What about you?

Kind of zoned out for a second.

What was the question? Were you ever like, okay, like how Lily kind of had time during quarantine to be like, okay, kind of like put a name to it? Like, it actually gives me like anxiety to go there. Did you feel that like at that point, or had you kind of always known, or are you pretty like rolled go with the flow anyway.

I've kind of always felt uncomfortable. It's a lot, you know, I felt uncomfortable there. Not like, oh, I want to— I'd be like, oh yeah, time to go to my dad's, like totally excited, haven't seen him in 8 days. But it was always like I'd get there and I was like, oh yeah, I don't love it here. Like, this isn't my favorite place to be.

It's a little just like the feeling, like you'd get there and be like, oh yeah, like this is what it feels like to be here. Kind of like that.

It feels like you're staying at like, um, like a house, like a friend's house. It feels like you're staying at a friend's house, like you don't want to touch anything, you don't know like what to do. Yeah, it's very, you know, it always has felt like that for me. Well, not always, recently has felt like that for me. But it, uh, it was always— I always wanted to go there until I got there, and then I was like, yeah, I'm ready to leave now. Like, I can go back.

Do you think that these experiences of like— and I'm only just saying this because I mean, I've known your mom for a decade. I've known you guys since you were like 2. And her home has always been like very— I don't even know how to describe it. Just kind of like everyone's welcome. There's like not really rules. I mean, she has rules, but it's just so different. Not that I've ever been to your dad's house, but the way you're describing it, I'm like, oh, no thanks. I don't want to go there. But Do you think that it's kind of shaped you for who you're going to be, not just now, but like as an adult? And do you think that you're going to be more aware of like the environment that you create? Like, are you guys— do you think maybe a little bit more hyper-aware of those situations now? Like, what type of environment am I creating?

I think that it's— I think definitely just because I feel like I can tell. I've been able to tell if they really want me there or not. Also, So to kind of learn boundaries of like, what are people's— like, my mom doesn't have many. Like, her food is our food. Her house is our house. Like, things that she has, yes, she likes to keep them, but she's not going to throw a panic attack if we take some of them. But like them, I know their boundaries are very strict. They're like, their things are theirs. Ours are kind of ours. It could be theirs if they wanted. But like, we're not really allowed to have boundaries there, but they are. And I know here that like there's not many that we could cross, but like at their house you just like, you have to be very careful all the time. You have to always be worrying about other people's feelings at their house.

I think it has made me realize that one, it's a lot easier to tell when people don't want you there than I thought it was. Like I thought you could fake it a lot easier, but it's very easy to tell when someone doesn't want you there. Not that they don't like you, they just don't want you there. And it's made me realize that like I never want to ever create an environment for like that for someone because it's not like she's like, you know, it's not like they're abusive or anything, but it's really like, personally, I really, I hate it. It's really hard for me to hear like, oh, we don't want you here, we don't like you.

Well, they don't say that.

It's not we, it's her.

She doesn't want us there.

Yeah, but she, I think she speaks for him a lot.

Yeah, well, especially because it doesn't sound like he's really using his voice.

No, he does not.

It's like when we were sick, he was fine with me coming. We were getting, we had close contact. And I was sick when I was getting COVID tested, if it came back negative, he was like, yeah, you can come. And then Allison threw a big fit. She's like, you're still not coming no matter what.

Like, I—

like, even if it comes back negative, you are not coming.

So who said that? Like, were you guys on the phone or was he texting?

Well, no, first he called me.

How do you know?

He was like, yeah, you can come if it's negative tomorrow. And then he called me again. He's like, well, Allison doesn't want you to just because— but he verbally, he was like, Allison does not want you to. And she gave us a reason of, well, her grandma hasn't got the shot that. When are we gonna see her grandma?

Yeah, and we're never invited to the family.

I'm not gonna lie, I low-key thought her grandma was dead.

And like, she, she doesn't— she would be working anyway. She works in a hospital, she works in the ICU with COVID patients. She has more exposure than I would, right? And it's not that I— and I tested negative for COVID, so I didn't have it. I had— I literally had a cold then. Yeah, so Girlie girl.

For me, I, I still enjoy going over there sometimes, so it's a lot harder for me to hear over the phone. Like, I remember I, we had gotten there and I was like, I think, yeah, I didn't really have symptoms, but you know, I was in close contact and Lily had symptoms. And I remember this, obviously I remember it was very recent, but like over the phone my mom was like, oh, or no, someone texted, someone called me. My dad was like, oh yeah, you know, if the, if the test is no good, negative, you can totally come over. Like, we really want you here. Well, he said, I really want you here, I really want to see you. Um, but then I got on the phone with my mom and just like, oh yeah, Allison just texted me or called me or whatever. And she was like, we don't want you here, we don't— you cannot be here, like you need to leave, we do not want you here at all. And I remember feeling like so hurt, I just like broke down on the floor crying for like 5 minutes until Oliver was like, all right, time to leave. I was like, oh, all right. It like, it hurt so bad, especially since I like going over there still because you guys were already there, like you had already—

yeah, she had already got—

I I wasn't going. I didn't feel well, and I don't— like, I'm already uncomfortable there, so I didn't want to go. I didn't feel well, and I had so much stuff to do here anyways, and I just didn't want to go in general. But— and then Violet and Oliver still went because our COVID test came back negative. So she still went because that's what— that was the first thing we heard, right? So then her and Oliver got there, and Allison freaked out, threw a tantrum, was like, you need to leave right now.

Like, I ran upstairs to go assemble my snack bin, and then I got the call.

Yeah. And she's like, you need to leave. Like, she called my mom super angry. She's like, they need— they she can't be here.

And it wasn't Oliver.

Oliver was allowed to come back, but Oliver was able to be there even though he's been in contact with us.

And I was the one who had the negative test. It, it was just, it really, it, it was hurtful. And like, I hated it so much.

It was really bad. Our dad said nothing. He never, he did not. Like, and he called me and he was like, I'm really sorry. He's like, I, I want you to come, but you know, Allison doesn't want you here. And I'm like, then why don't I?

So it's not just Allison's house, but But would you guys ever feel comfortable like telling him this or like talking to him and being like, why don't you ever— why don't you ever— let's bring him on.

Hey Dad, anything you'd like to say about the situation?

Let's do it right now.

Let's talk right now, have this conversation.

Um, like, do you guys think that you would ever be comfortable telling him this is like how we feel?

Well, I have.

You ever?

I would love to try. I did. I think when I— so the choices my mom gave me were to keep either going to his house when I told her I was really uncomfortable there, or I needed to have a talk myself with him. Like, I couldn't just keep— like, I— because I was just making excuses. I'd be like, I don't feel well, I don't want to come, or I have this going on, or purposely make plans with people so I didn't have to go. And— or I would ask my mom to tell him I don't want to go, and then, then she became someone he would yell at. He's like, well, why are you keeping them? So she's like, well, you can either tell him or you go. So then I had to call him. And she was— so we had a conversation about how I was uncomfortable going and I felt like Allison didn't really want us there sometimes. And I felt like that we— I wasn't always— that wasn't really my home. And I felt that it was more work for the both of them. And he didn't— I mean, he didn't agree with me. He just— at first he was very— he was like, well, why do you— but how do you feel like that? I think we're very welcoming. It doesn't make any sense. But he— but he wasn't like listening. He was not open to listen to me at all. Like, he wanted for his answers to be correct 100%. Like, my— what I was saying was not okay. And then—

so it's more important for him to be right.

Yeah.

And to feel good than to— he never considered wrong and not try.

I personally feel like I am a very confident person in most aspects of my life. Not all of them, but most of them. I am very confident. I am straightforward. I am a loud proud. Like, I will be able to be like, oh, I don't agree with this. But it has been— I really want to have something happen in my life so I can bring it up with him. Like, all of my problems, they're not super like big, so I feel like it'd be a really bad argument for me. Don't care about your problems. Um, I feel like for me it would be really hard to bring up, especially since mine are more like emotional, like food, like for food emotions, or like, you know, just— he— and he's pretty nice to me too. He's a lot nicer to me than he is Lily. So it would be really hard for me to bring up this conversation with him and, you know, pick— not really pick a fight, but try and talk to him about it. But I kind of always wanted to. Kind of wish sometimes he'd just do something. I'd be like, all right, this is what's gonna happen.

So next time he's like, okay, are you gonna eat another cookie? Like, yes, yes, I am gonna eat the whole thing. I'm gonna eat this whole box of cookies and I won't feel bad about it.

Yeah.

Or could you just be like, why does that make you uncomfortable? Like, can we talk about this? Like, because this is kind of my life.

Well, on the topic of liking Violet more, he is very rude to me me and Oliver. Like, they're like— more Oliver than me, I think.

Yeah.

I mean, he's not ever like— to Violet, if I were there at his house alone, I would not have got the same treatment as Violet did. Just Violet went out for a movie, or what did you— they went out for supper, they watched the movie, he bought her shoes. I've never gotten— since like, I don't know, 5 years ago, he has not bought me a single thing.

And he picked me up and he was like, hey, it's just you, what do you want to do today? Let's, let's go take the dogs out. And then you want to go like, you want to go to a movie? You want to go to supper? Let's buy you a new pair of shoes. And I think it's— honestly, I realize that it is different when I am there by myself. It was probably the most enjoyable experience I've had there in a while when I was by myself than when I was with, you know, Lily or all of them.

But you wouldn't have that same experience with him if it was just you.

Well, why I think Violet likes it more when it's just her is that he is way nicer when it is Violet. He's nicer to Violet. Like, when we— back to that, when Violet broke that vase thing, He would not have covered for me and Oliver. We would have got the blame. We would have been grounded, especially with Oliver. He's not nice to him. Like, it is that Oliver has expressed many times he does not want to go to his house because he's uncomfortable. And except Oliver is a little nicer than me and sometimes feels better about it. He'll be like, well, but I feel bad about not going. But recently he's, he's done going. Like, he does not. And he can drive, so he does get to make his own decisions.

But yeah, yeah, I think, um, but he— even though me and Lily are the exact same age, he babies me a lot. Like, I remember I used the stove for the first time in that house like this summer, and it was like— I was like, whoa. And I didn't— I never told him about it because it— I, I would have been so scared. He'd be like, oh, we're gonna start the house on fire. Like, he definitely babies me. Oh, like, he babies me. He babies me a lot. He still calls me like the same nickname I've had for like, I don't know, forever. Yeah. And that's basically what he refers to me as.

I think they have very low standards of us at that. Like, here I think I, I'm set— like, and I don't mind being set high to high standards. Like, there's sometimes I, I— like, Allison doesn't trust me to watch the dogs, but I'm trusted at my mom's house to watch the babies for 2 days in a row overnight. But I'm not trusted to watch not even living human things at their house. Dogs. Yeah.

Oh, should we, should we lock them up in their kennels before we leave? And I remember sometimes my dad would be like, no, they can do it, like they can handle it. She'd be like, she'd like whisper to him, and then they'd be like, actually, let's lock the dogs up. And I was like, whoa, what are we saying? Secret secrets are no fun. Secret secrets hurt someone.

So, okay, last question. If there was somebody who is listening who's struggling because they don't really know, like, how to talk to their parents, or how to, like, bring something up. Would you say it doesn't really even necessarily matter having a great relationship with every single one of your parents, as long as you have a good relationship with at least one of them? You know what I mean? Like, you can go to Mike for certain things and go to your mom for certain things. Maybe your dad, maybe not. Allison, never. So like, I mean, or do you think that— I don't know, like, what do you guys think about that?

I think having at least one person in your life that you can like— that can be your outlook, that you can go to and tell things that like maybe you're uncomfortable to tell other people, especially having like a female and a male, just because my mom sometimes if I say something, she takes it very out of context and will be like, well, and the whole problem has to be fixed. But if I complain to someone else, like Mike, he's very, uh, he's very honest and open with it, and he's not like, woman empowerment, he's just, break that glass ceiling, girly. Um, but, and I think my mom, like, I obviously don't want to talk about some subjects, Mike, that I would talk about with my mom, right? And it doesn't, like, to me, having a bad relationship with my dad, like, yes, I would like to fix it, but at the same time, it's not like I don't stress about it I'm like, wake up in the morning like, how would I fix my relationship with my dad today? No, I don't. It's, it just is what it is.

It is at this point.

Like, if it ever gets fixed, sure, I'd love that. But with Allison, I don't really want to try to fix it because I don't think— I mean, she doesn't like me.

I don't know how.

I don't want to think there's like nothing relatable, I guess.

Like, you guys don't really have anything in common at this point other than your dad.

Yeah, there's nothing really to fix that. So I don't really care about— like, I would— don't even think I would try to fix that with my dad. Bad. Like, there's some things I've tried, but like, at the same time, it doesn't really work. I think I just leave it. Like, I'm— I have two good sources that I can go to that I love and that are open with me and that I can be open with, that I don't really feel like I need two more.

And do you think for you, you'll ever, like, at some point be able to just be with your dad and just be exactly who you are and have him totally, like, love you 100%? Or do you think you'll always have to alter?

Absolutely not.

I am a completely different person. I my dad's, I like, I go down like 3 maturity levels. Like, it just, it's instant. I drop. I hate it. I don't like, I don't like doing it over there. It's like, you know, like dumb yourself down. It's just, I don't, I don't want to be my actual self over there either. Like, I feel like it would be different and he would, you know, stop babying me and being nicer to me, which I'm totally fine with. I like that he's nice to me.

But do you think that that will always be enough though? Like, do you think that when you like turn like 18 or whatever, that you're gonna be like, fuck this, I actually want like a real relationship? Or do you think that you'll always just be like, you know what, if I want to spend time with my dad, I'm just gonna act this certain way?

Um, I don't, you know, I don't care. I have, especially since my, you know, my mom are so supportive and like they are really— I mean, she's not a great parent, um, like parenting book, but she's pretty, she's pretty great, you know. They're your Yeah, she's like, not feed us. She'd be like, oh, you didn't eat lunch? Nah, wait till supper. Oh, sorry, I paid Oliver. Your first lesson in women inequality: you don't get paid. She's not great. Love her, not the best.

Well, I just think she's been very— just taught us to be self-dependent. We'll be good people in the world.

Yeah, for sure. Um, and but yeah, Mike probably fills in sometimes, but they are both really, really great parents emotionally. Um, for the most part. I don't crave— I've never, you know, I wish— I don't even wish I had that great of a relationship with my dad because sometimes I'm like, is that too much? Like, I feel like it'd be a lot harder to love all of them.

Really? You think so?

Yeah, it takes a little bit of work, you know? Have to spare his other feelings. Too many people like me.

Well, I think by the time— I think as I get older, I will stop going more and more. It's like, by the time I can drive myself and I can make those decisions when and where I go, I don't think I will end up going.

I, like I said, I really want to confront him. I—

it's like a phone relationship is good for me.

My favorite thing I really want to do is like talk to him about how I feel when I go over there. And I don't know if he would completely shut me down like he did you. I think he'd be maybe okay and listen to me and make changes. Changes, but I don't really like— except for the conflict. Love to fight, love to argue. That's the only thing I crave in this situation.

Well, he does too, so it never will end. He will— he loves to be right, he loves to fight. Literally love it.

Yeah, exactly.

I hate fighting.

I will—

I don't care if I'm right or not. Like, so when I put my opinion out there, I let him shut me down. So I don't know, I don't—

you know, I don't want to necessarily come out of that argument winning and him being nicer. I just want to argue sometimes and, you know, fix some of those problems and make sure he He knows that he is not the best parent. Um, as I get older, maybe that'll change. Maybe I'll want to have a better relationship. But as long as I have Mike, you know, as my father figure in life, I'm good. Most people only have two parents anyways, you know.

So you've got a set of mom and dad. That's all you need.

Yeah, I'm fine.

Well, thanks. We'll end this so you can call your dad back. know your biggest takeaway from today's episode, whether that's you sharing it on social or emailing me, DMing me, whatever that looks like to you. Please let me know. I want this to be a place where you come to learn and grow, feel connection, build relationships. So please reach out. I can't wait to connect with you soon.