🙉 Follow the prophet!

Hi friends, it's Aly again. In the previous episode, I told you guys a bit about how and why I left the LDS Church. It's a topic that we could talk about for hours. Our minds are a very powerful thing, and the way my mind used to work, I felt like it wasn't mine and that I wasn't allowed to think or feel how I wanted because everything was already laid out for me. I just had to go down the straight and narrow path. I felt like I didn't have the freedom to choose because what I really wanted deep down wasn't right and wouldn't have been accepted in the church. I eventually realized that I was having a fake it till you make it mentality, but God knew what was in my heart. After feeling confused and lost and trying to get my heart and mind on the same page, I ended up leaving the church. And after I left, I was really happy and really relieved, but it was also a little scary. I was making a big change that was going to affect the rest of my life. But I was learning that Joseph Smith wasn't the person that I had always thought that he was, and that there were things about the history of the Church that I felt were kept hidden, and that there were people who were supposed to be these great spiritual leaders that weren't exactly so. I saw that people around me had left or were leaving the Church, and while they had different experiences than I did, we ended up with the same thought that the Church wasn't true, at least not to us. And that was so comforting to know that I wasn't alone. Ever since I left, I found a great guy who I married outside of the temple and was able to be surrounded by all of the important people in my life, not just the worthy Mormons. And him and I are able to provide for our family without being told that we have to give 10% of our earnings. And we have a beautiful little boy who I can't wait to see grow to be whoever it is that he wants to be. As long as it makes him happy. I have an awesome life. I wouldn't trade any of it for anything, and I do not regret my decision at all for leaving. I still feel like after all this time that I made the right choice. But who knows? Maybe there really are three heavens, and maybe the Book of Mormon really is full of true stories that were transcribed from a rock in a hat. And if that's the case, Then I will see you guys in the lowest of the heavens, and we'll have margaritas.

Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your host. Here you'll get to listen to stories from people who divulge real and raw experiences on all different topics. You get 9 lives on your journey here on Earth. Which one are you living? Happy Monday! I hope you guys all had a fabulous Valentine's Day. If you were not able to listen in last week, I will just catch you up really quick, but of course I would suggest you go back and listen to the very first part of the conversation I had with Allie. We grew up together in adjacent tiny little towns in northern Arizona. We were both raised in the LDS Church. We have kept in contact over the last several years and just were able to catch up a couple of weeks ago. And so of course we had a lot to talk about, and a lot of it was centered around religion because we grew up Mormon, and there was a lot to discuss and You know, when you're— when you grow up in such a conservative lifestyle and you're surrounded by a majority of others who are raised and taught the exact same things, I think it's sometimes difficult to see a different perspective or even have the courage to try something new. 10+ years later, as we talk about our teenage years and how being raised in the religion affected us, it was really interesting to see the parallels. We both still have loved ones who attend the church and obviously aren't speaking ill of the religion. We just know that for us in our personal lives, once we did leave the church, it completely changed our outlook on life. It helped almost with our self-worth, self-love. We both felt this relief that is indescribable unless you've been through something similar. So I urge you to read more about the religion and you know, study it for yourself. Obviously, like I said in the last episode, these are our stories, our opinions, and our experiences only. If you have questions, or if you are going through a similar experience of leaving something, whether that's your church or a group or school, whatever it is, please reach out. I would love to connect with you and maybe be a support through your transition period. Also, you should totally go and leave a comment in the iTunes podcast section, or leave a review, whatever it's called. Um, it helps so other people can see the podcast, and it also helps me know if you're loving it, hating it, or what content you're most interested in. So I would absolutely love to get some feedback from you as my guest. So please head on over there, grab your favorite drink, and enjoy the second part of our convo. Your kitty—

can you hear my cat?

Meow!

He's psycho. And I look back now and like sometimes I get like, not necessarily mad, but kind of like I get a little frustrated because I'm like, you know, like there's all these things that, you know, these are all the reasons why I don't believe in it now, but I wasted— maybe I shouldn't say wasted, I don't know, but like I spent so much time focusing on it and, you know, trying to work so hard on it and defending it and, you know, trying to spread the word and and now I don't believe in it. And I'm like, I feel like I wasted a lot of time of my life, you know, giving it to the church. And I've kind of had to like backtrack and just be like, okay, like instead of being angry about it, what did I learn from it? And what are the good things that I can take away from being in it? And, you know, I love the family aspect. I love how, you know, involved in, you know, family they are and how important family is. I think that I learned a lot of good things from it and of how I wanna raise my family and be in a family. And that's kind of what I've had to think about is I've had to sit down and be like, okay, these are all the things that, who knows if I would've really gotten these traits or been this type of person if I didn't have the church. These are the good things from it. And these are the things that I just need to focus on and be thankful that I learned from it. Exactly, you know. Yeah, no, because being angry about it is not gonna help anything. And it's just— and I don't want to sit here and just, you know, like say that it's a terrible, terrible thing. It's just there were just things that weren't for me, and I just have to focus on the good parts of it, of what I learned.

No, absolutely. And I, I completely agree. And I do think that there's so many things that I learned. I mean, even just like think about the the little things of like primary, like they make you talk in front of, in front of a huge crowd. I mean, so that potentially is giving you, you know, like public speaking. So I'm just like, you know, there's some really cool things that it's like, oh, would I have really done some things I probably would have regretted?

Because I remember when I, like, when I made the decision to leave and I like started drinking and stuff, I was kind of like I'm not necessarily just like totally lost on everything I've ever learned, but it was just kind of like, I was like, I'm gonna do whatever I want. And I did do whatever I wanted. I was just like, I was partying. I was, you know, and I was partying multiple nights a week. I was going crazy. Like looking back, I'm like, maybe it's a good thing I didn't drink in high school. Very good.

But I feel like a lot of people—

if I'd still be alive, right?

Right, exactly. I'm like, you just never quite know. But yeah, I'm like, I feel like a lot of the time though, kids who just grew up that way, like, they get their partying out like in high school, you know what I mean? Like, I've met people who were like, oh yeah, like, I used to be a heavy drinker when I was 16 and 17. And I'm like, what? Like, that was just like not even thought about. Or you I've talked to people who are like, "Oh yeah, I lost my virginity when I was 15." And I'm like, that wasn't even— I didn't even know what that was necessarily. I remember boys would talk about things and I'd be like, "What are you talking about? What does that mean?" Yes.

And I remember people would always— Yeah, people talking about things and you're like, "I don't know what that means, but maybe it's because I'm not supposed to know what that means." Right.

Let's just not talk about it.

Yeah. I was like, oh my God. So, so naive.

I know, I know.

It's kind of like, you know what though, I'm really glad that my party phase was after the fact. And probably a lot of it was because I didn't have to do much, like, you know, it's like sneak around, right? And I was like, I was an adult, I could just go do what I wanted and I didn't have to, you know, I still was like, didn't necessarily want everybody to know what I was doing, but I also didn't have to like sneak in a house late at night, you know, worrying that my parents were gonna wake up. So I was kind of like Yeah, maybe I'm glad that I didn't do that in high school.

Yeah, no, that's totally true. That's a good way to look at it.

Um, but so you definitely would have, uh, what? I would have had fun in high school, especially because I kind of feel like I'm a pretty fun drunk. So I'm like, everybody in high school really missed out on who I am.

Oh my God, that's hilarious. You're like, okay, I'm really cool. Let's go back, you guys. This is— I'm so much fun.

Like, it was really cool, I promise.

That is hilarious. Um, gosh, it's so funny. God, what was I gonna say?

Seriously though, I'm gonna send you— I'm gonna send you the CES letter. Not that I like— you want to convince people that, you know, I know, I like always do with their lives, but I'm like, you should read this because I think that you'll— I don't know how much you know, I guess, so I'm just gonna have you read it. Well, just like about like the history of the church and just, you know, just like the Book of Mormon and all that stuff. Like, it just— like, there were things that— I don't know, it'll just blow you away. Yeah, there's so much.

I'm super interested in reading it just because I think—

I'm pretty sure I read it in one night. Like, it's 84 pages long, but like, oh my gosh, crank it out because you'll just be like, oh my gosh, I can't stop.

Yeah, no, I think it's crazy just to look back and be like, okay, I lived 21, 23 years of my life in this. And so now it's interesting to go back and you've heard it all before, but now you're reading it as holy shit, I never thought about this this way because you were just told this is how it happened. This is, you're just supposed to accept it and that's that.

Well, and it was always like, it's two sides of the story, right? Like you always hear, like, there's two sides of the story. So it just depends on who you talk to. And our whole life we just heard one side of the story. And it was like, this is what happened and this is why he was treated the way he was treated. And this is how everybody was so wrong and everybody else was, you know, didn't they weren't following Joseph Smith, and so they were making wrong decisions and whatnot. And then you kind of hear about the other side of it. And there's journal entries, and there's, you know, all these facts about the other side that you're just like, oh, I guess that's true. I guess there are two sides. And I guess this does make sense, actually, listening to it. And I think that was another thing is when Like, I— when I like started actually leaving the church, I was like, okay, I need to have like an open mind. Because that was the other thing is I felt like I wasn't allowed to. I felt like I was never allowed to just freely think, even though they always kind of say like, no, like we're, we're put on Earth to make our own choices.

But not really though, because you have all of these things that you have to do.

Exactly, exactly. It was like, no, you're here to— you can make your own choices, you know, that's That's why God put you here. Like, you can do whatever you want, but you better make the right one.

Right.

Like, so it's like, so I don't really have the freedom to make my own choices, right? You know? So once I like allowed myself to just completely open my mind, and one of the first things was, is like, I need to not judge other people. Instead of like judging them and just being like, how dare they make the decision, it needed to be like, why are they making that decision? You know, like, whether it was something else in their life that was affecting it, or just because they simply wanted to make that decision and learn, you know, maybe they'll learn from the consequences. But I think that was something that, like, actually helped me, was just like, I need to just open my mind and just look at everything from a different point of view and then see how I feel.

Yeah, there was a lot of things for me, I think, where I would question because I felt like it was just like contradictive. So we teach, you know, they teach all about how important family is and that we're going to be with our families forever, you know, but then there's also the Three Kingdoms. And so basically if one of your kiddos decides that, you know, they're— they don't want to live the LDS lifestyle, well then in heaven you're— you guys aren't together, but families are still super important. Or what if one of your kids is gay? Then that means that you're not going to be with your family forever? Like, fuck that. No, absolutely not. So I— yeah, like, I just remember being like, are you kidding me? Or I remember my mom was telling me, because she'll still talk about like state conference and different things, and General Conference, whatever. And she was like, yeah, they just came out with a new, um, a new rule. This was several years ago that if you were raised in a household with same-sex marriage, that you can't get baptized until you're 21.

Makes me so mad.

And I was like, uh, and she was like, well, they're basically saying that you're being taught one thing at home and one thing at church. And I'm like You can say that about fucking anything.

Anything.

Yeah, I'm like, okay, so Lily has divorced parents and at church she's being taught that you don't get divorced, but yet she goes home to separate households. I'm like, so should she not be able to get baptized? And I was like, and honestly, nobody should be able to get baptized until they're like 25 because you don't fucking know—

Amen.

What that means to take on your sins when you're 8 years old. You don't sin.

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I don't even think I knew at like 16.

No, you don't. You're still figuring out like who you are, what makes you feel good, what's right for you. Like, you're still— you're like such an emotional human being from like 12 to now, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm just forever.

Yeah, for all the time. And I'm just like, you should not have to feel like, oh my gosh, am I making the right choice? Am I sinning? When you're 14 years old, like, you, you should be just free and enjoying life and enjoying school and enjoying your friends and sports and whatever it is that you want to be a part of and not have that huge weight, which I really feel like it was— that it's a weight. And not— I, at least for me, I felt—

no, I agree, that's how I felt. And, and that's like one of the things that bothered me too, was like I always felt like I was being told like the church never changes, right? Like the world will change, but the church and their teachings and everything, it won't ever change, right? But like looking back, I'm like, no, it always changes. Always. Like, oh, it's always new. And that was one of the biggest things that was contradicting, was like, no, like they're always changing policies. And even the Book of Mormon itself is getting edited and changed. So If it was, you know, so true in the word of God, wouldn't it just been one thing and that was it? So why do we have to go change a few words to make it, you know, whatever excuse it is, right?

And if God was all-knowing, and when he was writing the commandments in, or, you know, like giving his prophecies to the prophets, like, why didn't they write that rule hundreds or thousands of years ago? You know, like, he obviously knew that there would be same-sex marriages. There, there always has been and there always will be. And so I'm like, why?

It's just a little more accepted now, right?

I'm like, why wasn't it a rule then? Or like, there's just so many things like that that I'm like, hmm, this sounds interesting to me.

It's like the same with like the Blacks in the church. So it wasn't until, you know, it definitely wasn't when Joseph Smith was here that it was like Blacks were allowed to have the priesthood. But all of a sudden, like many years later, all of a sudden it's, it's okay now. Like now it's okay, now God is okay with it. Like the God I believe in would not have just like not accepted them from the beginning.

Right.

You know, so, and that was one of the things too. And I kind of remember learning about that when I was younger and just being like, that's kind of fucked up. Like, and, but I'm supposed to like agree with that. Like I'm supposed to like, you know, that was like, it's things like that, that it was like, even if it was something that they changed to, from one thing to another, and I believed in the thing of— how do I word it? Like, I believe in the way that they're going with it now, you know, but it wasn't always the way the church was working.

Exactly.

That was still hard for me because it was like, even though I wasn't around when they were making the other decision, or they— like, the policy was what it was before, it still bothered me that it was like, that's still what it was. Like, at some point, that's what it was. Or even like with polygamy, like yeah, they don't practice it now and they say that it's a sin now, but it's like, but Joseph Smith was a polygamist. So.

Right.

You know, it's just very contradicting to me. And like, I remember even being told when I was little, like the prophet actually speaks to God, like has a conversation with God. And I was just like, oh my God, that's so crazy. Like, that's how you really know. And how do people not believe in the church? And like now looking back, like, they'll like, it's, they just go based on their feelings. That's really all it is. And it's like, well, I have feelings too, like, and I really think that God speaks to me too. So should I go start a church? Because I, you know, I've got some things I could say. Maybe, yeah, you know, maybe I'd have some good advice. I could probably lead some, at least a small group of people, right? But, but it's just, I don't know, like the way that I think that it's some of the things are worded is to make it, you know, more of just like, let's convince people, let's try to, you know, and I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm gonna die and, you know, end up in one of the three heavens that I right now don't believe that there are three heavens, but maybe I'll die and I'll end up in one and I'll be like, all right, I was so— I was wrong, right?

You're like, shit, bummer.

Um, darn it, I did my best. Like, A for effort because—

Yeah, seriously. When we were watching, um, the Abducted in Plain Sight, which isn't that fucking nuts?

Uh, yeah.

So I like—

it almost messed me up a little bit because I like finished it and I guess I didn't full— like you told me a little bit about it and I was like, oh, this is gonna be good, I'm gonna watch this.

Yeah.

And like it ended and I was like, what just happened?

What? Yeah, that was us. We couldn't stop talking about it like all week long. Like one of us would just randomly come into the room and just like start talking about it again. I'd be like, oh my gosh, can we just talk about this one more time?

Yeah, but it was just— it just doesn't make sense because I'm just like, oh, I— so many things, just so many things.

But of course, like, we talked about the fact that they were Mormon and that— so, okay, after the first kidnapping, right, which was fucking nuts that they didn't call anybody for days. Yeah, uh, yeah, that's already just like insane. But as I was watching it and like knowing that they were LDS, I was like, I can totally see people thinking that way. Like, oh yep, well it's this person, like we've known them our whole life, he's in our ward, we trust them, it's not a big deal. Like he probably just took her across the country, no big deal, forgot to tell us.

What?

He goes to church every Sunday. I've seen him read his scriptures, right? Like, he's fine.

He comes over here for dinner. Like, he holds a calling, you know. So I could just— I could totally see it happening. And then when he came back and he talks about how, like, oh yeah, we talked to the bishop and he sent me to this counselor who— or a psychotherapist, or whoever it was, a psychologist. And, uh, that psychologist told him that he needed to sleep with the little girl, you know? And she'd listen on the headphones. And I'm like, you have got to be fucking kidding me that a bishop would refer him to this person, come back, tell the parents, like, this is what my psychologist says, I have to do it. And then nobody questions it because that's just what the church That's just like what your leaders told you to do.

Yeah, as if it's like, well, God said that I need to do this, so you can't fight against God, right?

And I was just— which I'm blown away, just like blown away, because I'm like, I feel like sometimes we've done that to where we just like, oh well, he's a church leader, or she's a church leader, we just need to listen and follow follow what they're saying and doesn't matter what I think. It's, you know, it's been given by the church leader, so we just have to follow it.

And that's another reason why, like, when I left, I was like, I can't talk to anybody in the church because, hey, they're humans too, and I know that they can make mistakes, and whether they intentionally do it or not. And I think that there's great people in the church, but I also think that, you know, some people kind of use it as a cover. And I would probably say, not that I know anybody who's high up or anything in the church, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some people who would use it as a power thing. And so for me, having that mindset, I'm like, it's a trust issue at the end of the day. And that's why I was like, this is between me and God, because I can't trust just another human being to tell me what I need to do with my life. And the choices that I need to make because of situations like this. Like, and it's crazy because you look at it from an outside point of view and you're like, that's, that's nuts. Like, that doesn't make any sense. But to those people, they're just like, okay, that's what we got to do then.

Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, that entire documentary, I think, just kind of like brought flashbacks into my life. Not that I was ever abducted, but I was like, oh my gosh, like just the way of thinking and the way that they were talking And I— yeah, it was— it blew my mind. And then when we watched the Ted Bundy tapes and he was Mormon or got converted, and I'm just like, who would baptize this man?

Like, yes, if you're so intuitive, trusted this guy, and look what he got away with.

Yeah, if you're so intuitive and feel the spirit and like can feel evil, who the hell let this guy in. Yeah. So it's just—

yeah, I was listening to one of those, uh, Mormon Stories podcasts and— or no, it wasn't the podcast. I think it was when I was listening to the audio of the CES Letter and they were talking about a guy who like was telling this spiritual story and, you know, everybody was moved by it. And afterwards they were like, oh, like, I totally felt the Spirit and whatever. Which, side note, I definitely think you can feel those things but I don't necessarily think it's religion related. Yeah, but like they were like saying like, you know, I felt the spirit when he was telling the story about himself and da da da, and it ended up that he made the whole thing up. What? So then it was like, and it came out that he made the whole story up. So then I was like, so what were you feeling then?

Yeah, seriously.

So, so I think that people can be inspired by stories whether or not they're true, but it just makes it a lot harder to believe in something like a religion when they're saying that it's, you know, when this person is like, "Oh, this is a true story, and you know, this is because I have the Spirit or because I have some, you know, the priesthood power or whatever." And then you kind of come to find out that that's not true. It makes it really hard to trust in where that's coming from.

Hey everybody, this is Maya from The MW Projects. I hope you all had a good holiday and a great start to the new year.

Just wanted to hop on here quick and let you know that the shop is back open and ready for new orders, so definitely reach out and let's get connected.

Now let's get back to the episode. I mean, we evolve all the time, like we change and we evolve and we're different And at different times in our lives, we need different things. And so I just love to think that, I mean, if there is a God, a higher power, which I, I believe in, then— and we are, you know, like, he made us and created us, and we can all become, you know, our minds are incredible, and we have so much power in our mind, you know, we can our minds are just so vast and we use like such a tiny percentage, and we're all like controlled by our subconscious. So whatever you've been taught your whole life, you have to like fight really hard to move past it and get through it and not think, like be stuck in those thoughts. And so I love the fact that you can just keep growing, keep evolving, and keep learning, and that you can be your own like savior in a sense of like, I found out who I am, I healed myself, I didn't need to like quote unquote give my sins to anybody.

When I was like going through the whole process of like leaving and like finding myself and like who am I and like who am I supposed to be, you know, like this whole thing, like as I was realizing that I was like, finding myself and I was like happier and all the stuff, like the sense of like part of me was just like, good for you. You're doing this and you're pretty much doing it by yourself. And this is how good you feel. And you're still making good choices and you're still like doing things with your life. And like, it was just kind of like a, like I didn't have to like, have somebody tell me what to do. Like, I did this for myself, and I feel like I'm in a pretty good spot in my life, and I kind of owe it— or not necessarily owe it to myself, but, you know, I kind of do. Like, it's kind of just like, I was kind of proud of myself. I'm just kind of like, good for you.

You should be.

No, and it was weird thinking that because you just grow up thinking like, hey, here's these books that you need to read, and this is how you're supposed to feel, and this is what you're supposed to do, and then everything will be fine. Mm-hmm.

No, that's true.

It wasn't fine. It wasn't fine.

It wasn't fine.

No, it wasn't okay.

I really think that, like, I wish that— I mean, Mormon or not, I think that starting out at a young age, we need to be taught all the things as far as, like, okay, let's talk about how you calm your mind. Let's talk about how you get through a hard situation. Let's talk about that little chatter voice in your brain that's going to tell you that you're a shitty person and to not listen to that voice. I really— I just am like, oh my gosh, our world would be a totally different place if we started teaching kids those things. Or maybe instead of being like, hey, don't have sex with your boyfriend, you can say like, hey, sometimes this is what happens. 'When you have sex, you could get an STD,' or you could—

exactly, here are the consequences of if you do it, right?

And like, or, you know, 'When you drink, it really like, uh, messes with your brain, and you know, you don't really feel normal, and it's fuzzy. It's super fun, but this could also happen, and it's really scary,' or, you know, and like, that's why I I would advise you to not do it, but you know, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, so like it's fine. But you know, like, yeah, think about—

there are consequences. Yeah, just like anything though, right?

Exactly.

No matter what you do, but it could be terrible.

Totally. And I'm like, you know, you never really— at least for me, I wasn't ever talked about like, heck yeah, like sometimes it's super fun to be in that like buzzy state and you're like laughing hysterically with friends and you're like feeling so happy. There's like nothing like it. It's super fun. But then there's also like the awful, like, I drank way too much, I'm hungover, I'm puking, I have alcohol poisoning. Like, then there's that.

I'm never drinking again. Exactly.

And then like 5 days later you're like, maybe, maybe I'll try it again.

Oh my gosh, I just need like 3 glasses of wine and I'll be fine, right?

It'll help. So I just think that there's— there should always be like the two sides. Like here's these, you know, scenarios, like, you know, do what you are gonna do, but this is why, instead of just like, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah. And I think that was like one thing that, um, that I've kind of told myself, like, when I, you know, like, when I raise my kids, I kind of— and I think it's because when I was raised, it was kind of just like, we just don't do that. Exactly. We just don't. Like, you That's just not what you're supposed to do.

Right.

And so that's just really all I knew. It's just, you just don't do that. And now it's like, there's a lot of things that I've learned and I've had fun drunk stories. I've had bad drunk stories and same with just any other kind of subject. But I'm glad that I did good or bad because now when I raise my kids, it can be like, well, just like you said, these are the things that it can do. So you can make the decision when you're old enough to make the decision. But just so you know, here's what can happen.

Exactly.

And I think that that's really all we can do. I don't want to sit here and just be like, you can't do this and you can do this, because I feel like that almost screws— it's going to screw them up. But I just feel like I want my kids to have that freedom to really choose. And I don't necessarily want them to feel guilty even if they make the bad choice because I think that they'll learn from it.

Yeah.

But I think it's important to be like, you know, here's the— here's what could happen that's good. Here's what could happen that's bad. But you need to learn from it. So make the decision you want to make because it's your life. Right.

And I think we're so hard on ourselves as it is. Like, it just makes it harder when somebody you love is like disappointed in you. And I really hope that I can keep that mentality when, you know, in 10, 12 years when she is going through that stuff. And I don't freak the fuck out. But I really hope that I'm just like, girlfriend, I totally get it, it sucks, I'm so sorry you had to go through it, you know, now you know how it feels. And then I'll be like crying in my room, oh my gosh. But right, but at least I want her— like, you can't learn stuff unless you learn it for yourself. I mean, people can tell you all day long not to do something, or that something's, you know, scary, or something's going to be messed up and you still have no clue what they're talking about until you do it for yourself. And then you're like, oh shit, maybe I should have like taken their advice.

But, and also like, I want, I want to have a relationship with my kids where it's like, I want them to be able to come to me and just to be honest and to say, hey, like, I screwed up. Or, you know, like, hey, this is going on and I don't, I don't know what to do. Like, I just, I I wanna be their friend even though I know that I'm still gonna have to be a parent, but I want them to feel comfortable enough to come to me.

Right.

Even for the bad things. And I feel like the way that I can do that is to let them know, hey, you're gonna make mistakes, and I might be really disappointed and I might be really mad, but I'm still gonna love you and I still want you to come to me. And I feel like if I was just constantly like, don't do this, you can't do this, I'm just gonna— I'm gonna end up pushing them away, and that's what I really don't want, right?

No, that's totally true. And I think that once you become a mom, you kind of like— your heart softens a little for your mom to be like, okay, like, she was a human with all of her own like feelings and emotions and her own life outside of being a mom. And it's just kind of like, okay, like, at least for me, I was to be like, oh, Mom, like, you sweet little love. Like, I'm so sorry for some I put you through.

Like, you just want to like go back and just be like, oh, I'm so sorry that I did this, or I like said this stuff to you, or, you know. Yeah, it totally changes. Even though my son's only like 5 months old, I'm like, oh man, my poor mom. Like, and she did it with 6 of us, and I'm like, oh my gosh.

When you decided to leave the church, were your parents pretty like that's, that's fine, like we accept it and that's fine, or were they like, what are you doing?

You know what, I kind of, I kind of feel like I cheated because when I left, I kind of just like snuck away. Yeah, because I wasn't living at home, right? And I was work— I was, I was working on Sundays, so I mean, they knew I wasn't going to church, but I think that they also like knew that I was falling away from the church, even though I was doing my best to like hide it. But it never really got brought up. Like, we didn't really ever talk about it. But there were times that like, I know, I remember having conversations with my mom and she'd be like, you know, are you going to church? Are you trying to go to church? Are you reading your scriptures? Like, you need to be doing this. And you know, you need to be doing all these things in the church. And I remember in my head being like, nah, I don't need to. But I just wasn't ready to have that conversation.

Yeah.

And then it wasn't until, um, my brother left, which, I mean, that's all his story, but he did like have a conversation with them. And so then that's when I knew that like they really knew that I left. Yeah. So I never really had that conversation with my parents of like, hey, I'm out. But I remember my mom did kind of talk to me about it once, which I had like just gotten home from work and I wasn't ready to talk about it. Like I was just like frazzled and I was like, "We can do this later." And it just kind of never happened. But I remember her sending me an email that was kind of like, to be honest, I don't remember exactly what it said, but I remember her being concerned that I didn't believe in God anymore. And she knew I had left the church and that I wasn't like active anymore. And so I remember writing her back and just being like, "Hey, like I still believe that there is a God. I pray to God all the time. Like I talk to him probably more than I did when I was in the church." Yeah. And I am okay. Like I'm okay, I am fine, I am happy. You know, and that I think like gave her peace of mind.

Absolutely, because I'm sure she just wants you to be okay, you know, right?

Yeah. And, and I think too that they've kind of seen like I'm still like a— I feel like I'm a pretty good human being, and I think that my parents are probably know that I'm, I'm a pretty good person, I would think. And I think that that's helped that it's not like I left the church and I was making all these terrible decisions and now I'm like this terrible person. It was kind of like, oh, she left, but she's okay. And I think at the end of the day that they just, I know that they love me and they want me to be happy. I'm sure that they would appreciate it if I made different decisions, but they have been really good about just respecting my choices. Which is all I can ask for, really.

No, totally.

Because I know, like, I've heard other stories on those, like, Mormon podcasts where families straight up are just like, you are not one of us anymore. Like, you don't belong here. You can't come back. Like, we don't accept you until you accept the church. And that is hard to listen to. That would be so hard for me. Like, so, so hard. So I'm just really lucky that they were very very still accepting of me, you know.

As always, thanks for tuning in. Can't wait to talk to you next Monday. Love you.