Getting Sober From Both Perspectives

If you asked me 5 years ago if I thought that my brother was gonna go to treatment and be sober, I would like absolutely never believe that it was gonna happen.

My name is Jake and I'm an alcoholic.

We grew up in an alcoholic house with our parents being, both of them being alcoholics. And then, you know, when Jake fell into it too, that's when I was like the most alone. My name is Erica Tickner, and I am the little sister of Jake Tickner, who I have the honor of introducing for this episode. I hope you are inspired by him as much as I am. Love you, Jake. Enjoy!

Welcome to my podcast, The Red Door, where humans share their stories. Our stories are what bring us together, connect us, and how we feel a little less lonely, giving you the reminder that you are not on this journey by yourself. As a collective, we share emotions and feelings, not the same way, but we each know what anger feels like, frustration, abandonment, insecurity, and what shit is fake or not in alignment with us. It is my mission to provide a platform for you to get vulnerable and share your experiences with the world. There is always at least one person listening who will be transformed by your message. Remember that the next time imposter syndrome pops up and tells you you aren't ready or you aren't good enough or that no one cares. Tell that voice to fuck off and then DM me. I'm here for you now and always, not just to hype you up, but to guide you down a path of mindset shifts so you can do the holy shit, this is hard inner work and create Create the life you love. If you're ready, enter here.

I noticed that he was becoming an alcoholic when he went to college, and I would only see him 2 or 3 times a year, and he would come back for holidays and he would just be drunk like the whole entire time. And so it felt like I never really was hanging out with him. I was just kind of hanging out with the alcoholic version of him. And that went on for like 10 years. Like it was so long. It got so bad. Talking to him was really hard. And I would basically beg him to go to treatment or to like try AA or try all of these things. And I like felt like I was talking to him like inside of him, you know, like on the inside there's Jake, like there's baby Jake, my brother, that I love so much, but on the outside was like this super destructive version of him. And he was mean and I know he's not a mean person and like all that type of stuff where I was like, "Oh, this isn't my brother." But I knew like the Jake inside of him really wanted help. I will never forget that day when I like looked down at my phone and he was calling me and I answered and he was like, "Okay, I'll do it. I'm ready, let's do it." And I called my parents and I was like, "All right, Jake's gonna go to treatment. We gotta do it like now because he's ready to do it right now." he could change his mind at any moment. I begged them, I was like, "Can he please do it here in Minnesota so that I can be a support system for him?" Because I've learned so much about how when people are using, they get so isolated. All I knew was that if he's gonna do the work to change, we can't isolate him. He needs love and to touch him and hug him and be there for all the meetings and the family program and all these things so that he doesn't feel alone. It was the greatest feeling ever. Obviously, that was the weirdest Christmas because he went in on Christmas Eve. And but it was like the greatest Christmas present ever. You know, like it was like emotional because it was really scary. But then at the same time, like that was the first time in my whole life that I felt some like optimism around alcoholism in my family. I went and visited him that week, like right when he went in. The first time I saw him, he seemed like a little kind of like hazy and tired. And then 3 days later I came in and it was like literally the first time I saw my brother in 10 years is what it felt like. It's just incredible. Like he is such a good person. He's such a strong, smart person. He's creative. He's like the nicest person in the world. And to like see him, you know, be that version of himself again is, it's the best, it's the best thing in the world. He's 4 years older than me, which is so funny because he's always said his whole life that he looks up to me. And I'm his baby sister, but he doesn't realize like how much I look up to him and the way that he like has just the strength of being able to go through recovery and to be sober for 2 years. I kind of try to channel that energy into my life. You know, like I wanna be the best version of myself and he is like the perfect role model for that, giving up, something, it's wild. And he just looks happy. He just looks healthy. You know, like there was a light that like came back to his eyes that I missed. And that was like really what it was when I looked at him and I was like, oh my God, there's my brother. Like there was just like this spirit and this light in his eyes and in his smile. And I knew that he was like gonna be okay.

Well, I moved to Minneapolis to get sober 'cause I went to rehab in, you know, about an hour north of Minneapolis at Hazelden.

Okay.

And literally within a week of being in rehab, I realized that I cannot go back to Colorado. It's just, it won't work. So, and my younger sister who I'm really close with lives in Minneapolis. And so she literally visited me once or twice a week out of the 4 weeks I was in inpatient, which is great. So every time they allowed visitors, she was there. So I figured, I mean, Minnesota. I've got a lot of connections in Minnesota growing up and especially Northern Minnesota. So I knew moving back to the Midwest would, would be the best option. And then after being there for a year, established a new career and stuff, I decided to move back to Sioux Falls mainly for family.

Are you comfortable sharing like how you got to the realization that you even needed rehab? Was it you? Was it a family member?

Like kind of tell me about that.

It was me. It was me. I mean, it was sort of a process because over a decade, you know, it started with just drinking to have fun, drinking and partying, whatever, because I never really drank in high school. I mean, I was kind of a pothead, I guess, but didn't really drink. When I got to Boulder, Colorado, like the party school, you know, trying to find myself, trying to find who I am, what to do with my life, whatever. So many things built up that I just started drinking and it was kind of fun. And then after about 10 years of it getting worse and worse and worse, it got to the point where, I mean, my life was completely centered around alcohol. See, it was like the one important thing, you know, like family relationships, unfortunately, because my addiction sort of even that stuff took a backseat where like my main life priority was just alcohol. And that's so far from who I really am that I woke up one morning and it was just sort of like a spiritual intervention on myself in a way where I like, for once in 10 years, felt like the old me and just sort of looked at myself like an out-of-body experience, looking at myself and just asked, you know, like, what the hell is going on? Like, how are you living this way? Why are you doing this? This isn't you. You can't do this anymore because you're going to die soon, much sooner than you probably think. And so I just realized that I can't live that way anymore. I was 100% fed up with it. I mean, at that point, you know, like if I went over 6 hours without drinking, I'd start to get really bad withdrawals, sometimes have to go to the ER, stuff like that. And I had gotten so used to withdrawals over the years, like seizures, things like that. That's just normal. I have to live through that for a few hours every day until the liquor store opens at 8 AM, you know. So it just was my routine. I'd go to the liquor store at 8 AM, drink on my way to work, which was in Broomfield at Vail Resorts, like the corporate office, but I lived downtown Denver. So I'd have like a 30-minute commute, which was great. I could put down almost half a pint of vodka on the way to work first thing in the morning and then go out to my car constantly throughout the day, whatever, and just sit and slam vodka. I just got so sick of it and was so desperate to do anything to not live that way because I didn't want to drink. I just didn't have a choice. I had to. So after just realizing all that, I decided to do something about it. So I tried taking classes and doing stuff like that in Colorado, but It didn't work. I, after a little while, I realized I need the absolute highest level of care possible, otherwise it's just not gonna happen. So essentially at that point, made some calls to family members and told them. And so we, I was very lucky to have that support and resources. And so they helped me get into inpatient rehab, which was great, an amazing experience.

Did other people have that experience where they just woke up one morning and was like, holy shit?

Some did. I mean, a lot of people there, they called it a nudge from the judge to where they had to be there. You know, they had to go legally. Other people do interventions with their family. You know, like their wives would set something up or husbands, whatever. You know, like if you don't do this for the third time or whatever, like we're taking the kids and leaving kind of thing. So, but I've talked to other people that just, yeah. They were just sick and tired of being sick and tired like I was. Just decided to make that change finally.

Was relapse ever— were you scared that you were? Was there like a point in time that you were like, "I don't want to leave here because I'm scared." Was there any of those feelings that came up or not really?

There was.

Yeah.

I mean, after being like a severe alcoholic for a decade, I suppressed so many things and like I learned in rehab that like once I get out, whatever, I have to sit and deal head on with all those feelings I avoided for 10 years. And that was kind of scary. Before going to rehab, I promised myself that I'd go at least 3 months after rehab without drinking. You know, I thought that'd be great if I could go 3 months, which I never imagined would be possible. That'd be awesome. While in rehab, of course, I learned, you know, came to the realization that nope, this is literally never drinking again. And kind of scary. So I tell myself to make it easier, like, oh, you know, I'll— how about when I retire, I'll enjoy alcohol again or whatever when I retire, you know, setting like sort of timelines like that, that are so far away that plenty will happen between now and then. But eventually it got to the point I realized, no, I don't ever want to drink again. I don't have to, which is the best part.

I'll text him stuff like that sometimes, just like, "Oh, I'm just so happy that I have my brother back." You know, I lost him to it, just like we've kind of lost our parents to it too.

So I'm sure that on— I mean, so this happened over a decade of you watching this addiction kind of like take over his life, right? And I met him when he was like in the middle of this. And even yet, I still was like, I mean, he was very charismatic, kind, loving, like, and he just kind of exudes that. So, and that was during, and so I can only imagine that now, like he truly can live that like fully. But was there ever a time, like during that where you're like, is he going to, like, is he gonna make it through this? Is he gonna live? Like, were you ever nervous for his life? Did it ever get to that point?

Yeah, like every day. I personally struggle with anxiety and I know a lot of it was because growing up I was always afraid of like getting that phone call that he like crashed his car drunk or, you know, or took his own life because I knew he was so depressed in it. And yeah, all the time. That was the hardest part about those 10 years was that like when I would look down and see who was calling me, I didn't know what to expect. Like, what is it going to be this time?

Alcohol really is around us all the time. And it's insane. Like, Kurt and I did a sober year a couple of years ago and I was like, no biggie. Like, this is going to be like a piece of cake. We were offered alcohol, I mean, at least like 4 times a week.

After the month of inpatient, I did 4 months of intensive outpatient. So that's just another sort of step down, I guess, like step down care. Um, in the same—

Paul, or what do you do?

So IOP, intensive outpatient, that's, uh, you know, you don't stay overnight or anything. It's not inpatient. Um, but it was 3 hours long, 4 nights a week.

Okay.

Where there's like the first hours with, uh, like a speaker or some sort of person that would come and talk to the huge group. And then the second 2 hours, which is essentially sort of like a mix between AA, just group therapy. And so the first month was 4 nights a week and then the second month was 3 nights a week and it went down to just 1 night a week, which is regular outpatient.

Okay. And so working at the time and like, yeah. Okay.

Yep, yep. I, I ended up getting it. Well, I lived in a sober house. For the first 3 months after rehab. And so part of living in a sober house, you have to have either a 40-hour-a-week job or a 20-hour-a-week job, but then 20 hours of volunteer work. So I ended up getting a finance corporate job for Ecolab. It's a big company.

Okay.

Just this. So that is a temp, I guess, for a month. A month or so. And then, I mean, one of the craziest things about getting sober is, I mean, it's in the Big Book or Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. A lot of people have experience with it. But when you do get sober and start living your life for yourself, good things just start happening to you. And it's crazy. And I didn't believe it, but that actually was the case for me too. Good things started happening. So I ended up getting a really great job at Cigna, the health insurance company. In behavioral health, helping with mental health and substance abuse. So I finally got to use my actual degree because I have a degree in psychology and loved abnormal psychology and, you know, mental health, substance abuse kind of stuff. And at this point, obviously had plenty of experience personally. Um, so I got in—

started working.

I still work for Cigna now. I work from home. So I did 2 years of behavioral health. Um, so I got to the point where— and this was before you know, COVID-19 or anything, I got to the point where I decided to move to Sioux Falls. So they allowed me to become a permanent work-at-home employee. So everything from my office, like the computers, phone systems, all that stuff, they helped me move to Sioux Falls and then they set up like a business modem and stuff, pay for it all so that I can work from here.

So do you get to work like one-on-one with patients?

Uh, nope. I used to do intake where I'd have, I think over the 2 years I did that, somewhere between 9,000 to 10,000 people I sort of helped. So it was like 20 to 30 a day, essentially like a call center sort of setting where I did intake and would talk to people mainly for Disney, the NFL, like teams and whatever coaches and players in the NFL. I had those dedicated accounts. So it was mainly, it was all over the phone and it was non-clinical intake. So I'd get them, you know, explain their benefits, get them set up with whatever treatments seemed to best fit them unless it was sort of a crisis situation. Like if they were currently using drugs or currently suicidal or currently going through withdrawals, things like that, then I would like sort of get them to speak with the clinicians and just sort of be that step in between. Getting them set up with clinicians, which would like help get people into rehab and stuff like that.

Yeah.

So as, as we're talking, I mean, it really sounds like a pretty seamless transition for you. Were there ever thoughts of like, what the hell am I doing?

Oh, all the time. I mean, yeah, it was somewhat easy because I knew it just felt right. It felt like this for once, this is finally what I need to be doing. And I hadn't felt that way since I was in high school. You know, I mean, I really, really over-enjoyed myself those 10 years in Colorado, but sometimes it just didn't feel right. And this finally felt right. And I think my higher power, in a way, I'll give a lot of credit to all the things that would happen to me and being able to work through things and figure things out and give that credit to my higher power, because without having that kind of sense of, I don't know, security in a way. I wouldn't have the confidence to stick to some of the decisions that I made.

Totally.

And I mean, the people that you surround yourself with now, I mean, have you always felt like you've had good friends, like in college and even during this time? Like, are you still friends with some of the same people or have you completely like removed yourself?

No, I'm certainly still friends with a lot of people that I have been with a long time. Two of my best friends, one lives in Sioux Falls. We were friends in middle school, high school, Tyler Weatherwax. We're still really close and all the time. And then my other really close best friend, we were friends or became friends freshman year of college. And we're still that close. But these are friends that like, they know me inside out. You know, like ride-or-die kind of friends that with or without substances, they're always there for me. My friend David, who I met freshman year, one of my best friends, he lives in Vancouver. So, but we talk 4 or 5 times a week still.

Yeah, that's great. And your family is super supportive.

Absolutely. It's crazy, me and him became such good friends because he has never drank alcohol in his life. He never done a drug or even smoked a cigarette or anything entire life, which is crazy to me.

It's totally crazy. Yeah, it's crazy to me.

Wow.

So we became best friends even though that's what I was constantly doing. But we were just legitimate, really good friends and still are. But there's always, you know, there's also that crowd that I used to roll with that I don't really associate with anymore because it was just centered around parties and drugs and alcohol that nowadays, like, I might run into them at a concert because music is just as much a part of my life now as it always has been.

But was there deeper shit that you were trying to, like, not deal with? Or do you really just think that you were just having a really great time?

And no, it's much deeper than I ever thought it was.

How would you say that your experiences— so even though you were living on, like, separate ends of the spectrum, How would you say that you were still— how you were both affected maybe growing up and how it just like he kind of chose to go this way, you kind of chose to go this way?

Like, talk about that a little bit. Yeah, that's— I have talked about that a lot before actually, because I like— so I'm the youngest and, you know, growing up with alcoholic parents, there was always going to be the fear that, you know, one of us or all of us were gonna become alcoholics. And that is still, you know, that is still a fear that I have today. You know, like I'm constantly watching what I'm doing because I'm so nervous about it 'cause I know it's in my blood. And, you know, my oldest brother Andrew started drinking a lot and then Jake kind of followed that, started drinking a lot. And I have said this before is that I always wonder like if I was the oldest rather than the youngest, like, would I be the super intense alcoholic in our family? Because I was able to watch them and be like, okay, this is what I don't wanna do. And then be super hyper-aware of the choices that I was making. And so, yeah, I feel like it's just like an age thing because I do have that fear and wonder all the time. Like if they were my little brothers, would I be the alcoholic and I would be the one calling them and asking for help?

I mean, it all sort of started just growing up as a child in a family that had parents that drank a lot and would fight once in a while, things like that. And, you know, they— I sort of always just assumed, well, they've been together and still are since they were in middle school in Sioux Falls. You know, parents started dating when they were like 13. So I figured just sort of nagging at each other, fighting kind of thing, especially after drinking too much, was normal. But it still really impacted me in a way that I mean, I would just label it as PTSD. So I had PTSD, other mental health things going on my whole life that by the time I got out and just sort of got to Colorado at like 18, 'cause I went immediately after high school, just all alone and like, all right, so now I can just be anybody, do anything I want. Nobody knows me. It's like a fresh start.

Me and my mom did the family program together in January when he was in treatment. And like seeing how much that was impacting my mom and like talking about all of these things. So I was sort of afraid to approach them, but not really, you know, like it was about Jake. It was about helping Jake and we weren't going to, and I didn't want to make it about anybody else. And like I said before, like I was just so afraid he was going to change his mind at any point. So it was like, okay, calling them, it's like, okay, we have to do this now. And I remember like that day, like because of his insurance or something like that, he was gonna potentially have to go to treatment in a different state, like in Colorado or in Oregon. And my dad said he just stayed up like tossing and turning all night and he called me that morning and he's like, you know what, eff the insurance, whatever, like he's going to Minnesota, he needs to be close to you. They did all the right things.

And a lot of that was just sort of running from the past. And then I found alcohol and that really helped running from the past, you know? So there's all kinds of stuff that is much deeper that all put together is the perfect recipe for a severe alcoholic.

So do you work on that stuff as you're in rehab? Do you just like I mean, kind of walk me through like what does a day look like? Because I'm just thinking, at least on my end, like when I've come out of something like that, I mean, because I used to drink heavily to avoid any feelings and emotion like that I didn't want to deal with. And so thinking back, when I would come out of that, it would be like it's either drink and be kind of happy or cry. And so I can only imagine what it would be like when you're coming off of all of that and really facing your emotions and you don't have anything to, I don't know, you don't have the alcohol anymore to drown it away. So what is it?

Yeah, I mean, the point is to just face it head on, deal with it, overcome it. And so it's not being drowned away, you know, which is much harder than it sounds even.

I used to feel like I was the rock in my family for everybody else. And now I genuinely feel like Jake has become like that person for our family. Like he really is the hero. He is the rock. Like he keeps us all together. Yeah.

It's incredible. And you feel like you can come to him now if you were like falling apart and you're like, and you feel like you can trust that he will truly show up like fully.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. I went through a really tough breakup last year from a super long relationship. And in the past I would like maybe call Jake and talk to him a little bit about it. But the thing about when he was drinking was he was just really selfish in conversations. And so it was hard to talk to him about my life because it would always kind of turn into his life. And now he's so selfless in his conversations that like when I was going through this really hard time last year, I could call him at any point in the day and he would drop everything and sit and talk to me for like 3 hours and just let me like cry to him through the phone or moments of being really depressed. I can call him and just be like, "Jake, I don't know why I'm so sad today." And he's like, "Well, let's talk about it." Like, yeah, he's, he would do anything for me, which is such a nice feeling. And I know my brother Andrew would too. It's just a lot different now with Jake being sober because he is such a different person than who he was when he was drinking.

A typical day in rehab usually consisted of like different sort of group therapies, speakers, sort of exercises just to help give you the tools to deal with that. Because I mean, 28 days in rehab, that's not nearly enough time to deal with 10 years worth of shit. You know, a lot of it I still do today and it's been over 3 years. So yeah, I mean, it's all different, those, all those different kinds of settings, workshops, therapy session type things, just sort of talking as a group with people about your experience.

What would you say is really like something that's done in rehab that really should be done like in real life?

I mean, I wish, I wish it was that easy. It's so hard to know during that time how bad you might be, you know, because especially having an addiction living inside your brain constantly telling you the wrong things. It's really hard to realize the right things. As far as like something the general public that I would recommend doing that can be done with anything, whether you have a drinking problem, drugs, or even like the comedian Russell Brand does. He's like 18 years sober or something. The British guy. I recently did one of the workshops with him where just being addicted to a cell phone or using a cell phone too much. He worked 12 steps or the 12-step program with a cell phone or using your cell phone too much. So a lot of people, I guess, I don't know what I can and cannot say about something like AA because it's anonymous. You know, we're not trying to— but general, the 12 steps, I, in my opinion, are something that can be applied to any sort of issue in your life. Doesn't have to be drugs or alcohol. Working something like the 12 steps or just reading through it, applying it to anything can be helpful to literally everybody. I think it's such an amazing way to live. I mean, it's being honest with yourself, being 100% fully honest with everyone else at all times, being conscious of your actions and things you say to people. And if need be, on the spot apologizing for it or making like quick amends in the moment. Things about the steps that if people actually lived that way, we'd be in a pretty good spot, in my opinion. It works for me.

Yeah, I know that sounds really great. And this is kind of off topic, but I was just having a conversation with somebody about that around like just me showing up and in like my space as a service provider for, you know, online business owners. And then just me, right, who I am. And I was telling this person, I feel like I, I've shown up and I've like talked about little things, but I've never shared my journey with it. And I was like, I almost feel like it's a disservice that I'm almost just trying to sugarcoat it, even though I never thought that I was. But I think that I have been. I show up and I say, "Oh yeah, I went through a divorce," or, "I co-parent," or, "I cheated on my spouse," things like that. That I maybe mentioned but don't really talk about. And I was like, it feels so much better to me when I just— when there's like transparency around everything. It just, it feels so much more like genuine and real. And I feel like I connect with people on a way deeper level than just living surface level. And I think that I've done that and it It makes me sad, but I love that you bring that up. And I want to get the 12 steps because I'm like, that would be really interesting to read and to just to start implementing in my own life because I question that too. Like, how much is— how much am I being surface level and rather than just being real and honest, like at all times?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if you or anyone does look into the steps, What I find, at least in my experience, being helpful, the first few, or I mean almost all 12 in some ways, but especially the first few, it seems as if it's religious in a way. Personally, I'm not religious whatsoever. Yeah, I do have a deep conscious connection with my higher power. Some religions call it God, whatever. I don't have a name for it. It's just something that's much bigger than all of us. That has to be out there.

Yeah.

But it doesn't have to even be anything like that. That's one thing we learned in rehab. It can be a doorknob if you're not into things like that. For me, my first higher power was my sister.

Yeah, it's tough. I think the biggest thing is I would say, like, it's not your fault. It's pretty easy to feel like in those moments that it's your fault. And I don't know why it feels like that, because you can be logical and understanding that it has nothing to do with you, but it still just kind of feels like you had to do more or do something different, or do you— like, you feel like you have control, um, but you don't. Like, it really is up to the addict and to the disease. Like, that's where the control is. Um, and so I think for anyone watching somebody that they love struggle with addiction, they have to just protect their own heart. They just have to like take care of themselves and be patient and utilize resources. Al-Anon, I know, is like an amazing program. I've done therapy, that's helped so much. I've connected with friends that have addicts in their life. And yeah, just to remember like it's a disease and It's really important to detach yourself from that and remember like, this is the person I love. And then this is like the disease, you know, and they're two different people.

And just sort of the relationship we had together and the feelings and emotions like that, that gave me because she knew who I really was my whole life, you know. And I know she was worried those years I was an active addict in Colorado. But one of the best things I've ever heard is even after like the first week or two in rehab, she like came to visit and just started crying because she could see it in my face. And she was just like, "I'm so happy to have my brother back. This is crazy. I feel like it's been so long." You know, and it just— I— so I just started bawling too. And like, just that connection and those feelings, that's a perfect example of what a higher power can be.

So that's me.

No, that's incredible. Well, thank you so much. And, um, are you open, like, I don't really know much about AA, but I mean, do you like sponsor people? Is that something you do, don't do? Like what's that about?

I haven't been a sponsor yet. I mean, every meeting I go to towards the end, if someone, you know, when they say like, if you're willing to be a sponsor, please raise your hand. I mean, I raise it every time. No one's come up to me and asked me to be the sponsor, I guess. So that's part of staying sober is helping other people. So, you know, if you're not willing to sponsor somebody even at a day sober, then how are you supposed to stay sober? So I don't think there should be any criteria.

Well, are you open to people reaching out to you if they have questions or need advice or something?

Yeah, always.

I want you to let me know your biggest takeaway from today's episode, whether that's you sharing it on social or emailing me, DMing me, whatever that looks like to you, please let me know.

I want this to be a place where you come to learn and grow, feel connection, build relationships.

So please reach out. I can't wait to connect with you soon.

Please share this episode with someone you know who may be struggling with alcohol or someone who may benefit from talking about it. I'm willing and open to talk anytime and can be reached at Jake Tickner on Facebook or Instagram. Instagram.