Growing Up Mormon
11 Feb 2019 · 33 min
In this episode of The Girl with the Red Door, host Kristjana Hillberg interviews Allie, a former member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter‑day Saints (LDS). The conversation weaves through Allie's childhood in Colorado and Arizona, the pressures of LDS culture, and the internal conflict that began in high school when simple desires—like coffee, tattoos, or questioning doctrine—were framed as sinful. Both women discuss how the church’s emphasis on guilt, shame, and strict behavioral rules shaped their identities, leading to a prolonged period of self‑criticism and fear of divine punishment. A turning point arrives when Allie encounters the CES Letter and the Mormon Stories podcast, which provide historical and doctrinal critiques that validate her doubts. She describes the gradual process of stepping away from church activities, confronting family expectations, and ultimately deciding that her relationship with God would be a private, personal matter. The dialogue also touches on broader themes: the concept of “nine lives” representing multiple personal reinventions, the importance of allowing children to choose what feels right for them, and the liberating feeling of living outside the church’s constraints. Throughout, the tone remains conversational, reflective, and candid, with moments of humor and empathy. The episode ends with a brief sponsor plug and a call for listener support.
Chapters
What has been going on? Like, tell me everything.
Everything has been going on. You name it, it's been going on.
Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your host. Here you'll get to listen to stories from people who divulge real and raw experiences on all different topics. You get 9 lives on your journey here on Earth. Which one are you living? Okay, you guys know I am not a bullshitter, so complete disclosure: Aly and I were both raised in the LDS Church. For those of you who aren't familiar with the religion, I urge you to read about it yourself. Obviously, our chat is full of our opinions and experiences, and ours only. If you have any questions after you listen, feel free to reach out. I always love connecting with you. We are in no way bashing the beliefs of those who are still practicing. Again, just expressing how it affected us and our lives. Through the episode, you might hear cats or babies. That's just the life of a mama. All right, enjoy. I know, like, just— that's just like what happens in life. It just takes you places and you're like, well, didn't think I'd be here, but I'm happy.
Mm-hmm, and I'm just like, I kind of got to the point where I was like, you know what, wherever I think I'm gonna be in a few years, I'm probably not gonna be there, so I need to accept that, right? So I just kind of take it as I go, and that's all you can do.
I was talking to MC the other day on the phone, and we were talking about like first loves, and I was like talking about— I was like, oh my gosh, Tyson. And she was like, oh my gosh, it's Tyson!
And I was just like— Isn't it crazy to think back on like the people that you like dated or even just the people you're friends with or just anything and you're just like, I'm a totally different person.
Right. Like I just think back to being 17 and I just can't— I don't even know. It's like I've literally lived like multiple lives. So I kind of like, I've talked about it or I talk about that on like the website for the podcast because when I first started the podcast I wanted to name it Nine Lives, but there's actually another podcast called that because I was like, I feel like we're cats kind of in a way. Like we have these— we live this life and there's so many different times where like a huge event happens and we have to like get back up and start again, or it takes us in a completely different direction than we thought and it's almost like starting your life over. Yeah, when I think about it, I feel almost that I've lived 6 different lives because I lived, you know, this life of being a little, a little kid in Colorado, and then we moved to Joseph City, and then I lived there, you know, until I was 18, and then I went wild and crazy in college. So that was like my third life, you know, like I just have so many different like experiences and Yeah, so it's just totally a trip to like talk to somebody from the past and just like reminisce and be like, I haven't thought about this in years.
Mm-hmm. And it's funny that you say that because I was thinking about this the other day and I think I was talking to somebody about it, but like all the different parts of your life and how you're like, I was a different person then and then and then. And I, even in high school, I was talking to one of my older sisters and I don't even remember how old I was at the time, but she was like, you know, from now until you're 18, you're going to be one person. And then from 18 to 21, you're probably going to change again and you're going to be, you know, different in a way. And then from 21 to 25, you're going to change again and you're going to go through all these changes whether you even realize it or not. And so I kind of always kept that in the back of my head and I was always like, who am I going to be at that point? Like, what am I going to be doing? And now looking back, I'm like, I totally was. Like up until I graduated, it was like I was, you know, I was like working on like being this like, you know, the good girl and following all the rules and, you know, whatnot. And then I graduated and I felt like free in a way. And then, you know, that's kind of when I started leaving the church. And then I left the church and I was like really this whole different person. And I was like trying to figure out who I was. And then it's like I found out who I was and I'm just like, I am totally different from who I was even 10 years ago. Oh yeah, and it's crazy to look back on it. It's crazy.
And I think too, I really wish that growing up that I would have like been talked to about that. Like, okay, you're going to like have— just kind of like how your sister was explaining, like, okay, you're going to be this person. And then like our brains don't fully develop until we're like 26 years old. I had like no idea about that, and I felt like a complete like roller coaster. I was like all over the place, and I'm like, where are all these like feelings and emotions coming from? And I think I'm being like sheltered and conservative for so long. I, yeah, I was just like naive. Like when I turned 18, I had to learn everything the hard way because I didn't know about it until I turned 18. You know?
Yeah, and it's like you think one way for so long and you kind of like, you have like this mindset of like, okay, this is, you know, this is everything you're supposed to do. And then life just kind of changes and you're trying to learn how to adapt and at the same time you're trying to stay on like this path that you think that you have for yourself. But yeah, everything's just kind of getting thrown at you and then you're also trying to figure out who you are. But you're like— I felt like in like high school was like, I felt like I had to figure out who I was and what I was going to do with my life by the time I graduated.
Yeah.
And so I think that kind of stressed me out too, because I was like getting closer and closer to graduating, and I was like, I don't know what I want with my life. Like, I don't know, I don't know who I am. Like, you know what I mean? And it was just like— so that was the hard part too. And then you kind of realize like it's okay if you don't have it figured out at 18 or 20 or 25, you know?
Exactly.
And So I had to like learn to accept that and then, and as I started accepting it, that was when I like realized I was also learning who I was in that process. So it was really weird.
So what was the driving force of you like deciding that you wanted to completely step away from like how you were raised?
Um, so There were just things that like, it kind of started in high school where I just like, things didn't totally add up for me, especially in the sense of like what I thought was like okay. Like, you know, drinking coffee or getting a tattoo or just like, it was kind of simple things. There were also like some big things that didn't also make sense, but in my head it was just like, well, I just have to accept that. Yeah. Like that's just how it is. Like, and I'm not supposed to question anything.
Exactly.
You know? And so when I would have thoughts of like, well, like, I kind of want that, like, I want a tattoo, and I don't think that people who have them are bad people, or, you know, just like kind of things like that. But then I would like attack myself 'cause I'm like, oh my gosh, Satan's coming after me. Like, he's putting these thoughts in my mind.
You know?
Because that's how— Right. That's how you were taught. Yeah, it's like, oh, if you're having those thoughts, then it's Satan attacking you and you need to do everything in your power to go against that. You need to be praying more and you need to do your scriptures, read your scriptures. And not that I think that there's anything against that at all, but it was just, I beat myself up so much of it because I was like, what am I doing wrong in my life? Here I am trying to do everything right and I'm still having thoughts of like, I wanna try coffee or I want, you know? And looking back, I'm like, How silly was that? But that's just how we were raised, you know? Like you have to follow these certain guidelines. And then after I think it was like, it was definitely after I graduated and I was going to, I was like still going to church, I was still going to a singles ward. And then I actually got a job where I had to work on Sundays. So I would still try to go when I could, but I stopped going. But I was still just like, oh my gosh, if I stop going, then Satan's really gonna come after me. You know? Like, it was just like, that's just what you thought. Like, the more you push away from the church, the more that, like, the easier it is for Satan to grab onto you. And so I was like praying more, and I was reading my scriptures, and I was, you know, trying to do all these extra things to make up for it. But really along the way, like, I was kind of realizing, like, it's okay and you're okay. And like, I just— the people I started surrounding myself with, I actually started feeling better about myself the farther away I got from it. Which, nothing against it, because, you know, when it comes to any religion, if it makes you happy, then I think that you should still totally stick with it. But I just started realizing that it was more of a stress on my life than it was kind of a positive thing in my life.
Yeah.
And so I kind of like was just going with my feelings and I just kind of felt like, you know, this isn't right. And it isn't, at least it isn't right for me.
Mm-hmm.
So I kind of went along with that and then I read Have you ever read the CES Letter?
I don't think so.
Well, you should read it.
What is it?
If you want to read it. But this guy that went on a mission came back and had all these questions basically about the church that just— and it's 84 pages long, so it's kind of long and there is audio of it. I've read it and I've listened to it. But he like had all these questions and he was like, hey, this doesn't make sense. And he had referenced a lot of church documents and like, talks and stuff. He was like, "This is where we're either contradicting ourselves, or these aren't adding up." And there's a lot of things about the history of the church and Joseph Smith. And listening to it and reading it, I mean, at that point, I had already kind of made the decision that I didn't think the church was for me. But I didn't really have a good, I felt like I didn't have a good enough reason other than I just felt it in my gut, you know?
Yeah.
And then I read that and I was like, oh my gosh, like, I really don't believe in it now. And like I said, like, I don't want to like shy anybody away from like religion because like I said, if it works for you, I think that's great. But I just— it kind of validated it for me that my focus at the end of the day was like, I think that I just need to be working on just being a good person. And sometimes that's hard enough. You don't need to throw all these extra things at me of what I should be doing in my life and whatnot when, guess what? Drinking coffee actually makes me a better person throughout the day. And a glass of wine at night makes me a better person. But so that validated it a lot for me. And then just even over the years, just things that I've like heard and read that I just really did not agree with. Just, yeah. So I kind of, that was, it was really between like high school and like, by the time I was 21, I was like, yeah, I'm done with this. And I knew a lot of people were probably like, she's just rebelling. She just needs to go through a phase of, you know, partying and you know, drinking and just doing whatever she wants, and then she'll come back, she'll know. But really, in my heart, I was like, no, I know this is not for me. Yeah, exactly. I feel like I'm a better person outside of it, and I think that's what's more important to me, is that I'm doing what I think is right now, and I feel like I'm still a good person, you know? And I feel like I'm still gonna go to heaven. I think I'm gonna make it.
Yeah, no, and exactly like you said, I think that no matter what religion you are, like if it gives you, you know, faith and hope and it truly is like helping you along the path to become a good person and a kind person, then yeah, like more power to you, whatever religion it is. But yeah, I kind of just came to that conclusion too, that I felt like most of my life I felt like shamed for things that you should not feel shamed for. And so it was kind of like a realization to be like, wow, um, like, I, I was just always told, don't do it, don't talk about it, don't ask about it, don't think about it, or else, you know, and like, God will take those blessings away from you. And I'm like, no, no, no, like, God doesn't withhold God doesn't withhold blessings, or the universe doesn't withhold blessings because you chose to stay out an extra hour and hang out with your friends, you know, or whatever it is, or to try a drink of alcohol, or to have sex with your boyfriend, whatever it is.
And I even remember, like, I remember in high school, like, if I would like think, get too lost in my thoughts, or even if I like said a cuss word in my thoughts, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst person. Yeah, like, God is so mad at me. Like, I need to like pray and be like, I'm sorry, and you know, whatever. And now I'm like, I cuss all the time and I think I'm okay. And you know what? I drink coffee all the time and I think that I don't think I'm gonna go to heaven and God's gonna be like, you know what? You drink coffee, like I can't let you in here. Like, you know? Right. And just like stuff like that. And even when I left, it was like, I went through this huge, like, what choice am I supposed to make? I've been taught my whole life what I'm supposed to be doing, and it's not feeling right. So how do I know, you know, leaving is the right choice or not? And I knew that if I talked to somebody in the church, that they were just going to say, well, here's all the things you need to do. You need to be going to church more, and you need to surround yourself only with church members. And, you know, like the typical, here's what you need to do to stay in the church and be closer to God. But then I also knew if I go to somebody who's not part of the church, then they're going to tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't be part of the church, but it's because they're not.
Exactly.
And I ultimately made the decision. I was like, you know what, I'm not going to talk to anybody about this. This is going to be something that's 100% between me and God. And, and, you know, I still believe in him to this day, and it was just like, you know what, I I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna pray to God and I'm— this is gonna be 100% between me and him. I'm not gonna ask for other people's advice or anything like that, you know, unless it was just like just to learn about other people and their thought process and what it is they believe in, because maybe it's something I've just never thought of but could end up believing it.
Exactly.
And that ended up like being the best decision I made, was just, you know what, if God is really in control of everything, then there's nobody else I need to go to. Other than him.
Yeah, no, that's so true. And I think that it's hard when you've grown up thinking one way and being like being taught something for 18 years and then trying to get out of that mindset, even if you're open and wanting to learn other things. It's those thoughts still like pop into your head, you know, like, oh my gosh, what if, you know? And you're like, get out of my head. Like, I, you know, I'm open to something else, I want to try something else, but then those thoughts are still like, what if? Or, you know, what if God really is withholding blessings now? Or, yeah, you know, it's so fucking insane to, to be away from it and be like, oh my gosh. Like, when I started listening to that Mormon Stories podcast—
mm-hmm, is it so good?
I can seriously relate to, like, when I listen to those stories, I'm just like, holy shit. Like, this was my— this was me growing up, you know? Like, this was my mindset. Or just hearing, you know, like, the girl talk about, like, EFY or going to Mutual, and I'm just like, oh my God, it's just— it's insane. And I never thought about it as, like, being cultish or being, um, you know, like, I always felt like it was super strict, but you were just you don't question it. Like, that's what God exactly wants, and so that's just what you do.
And yeah, and it's gonna be hard, but it's gonna be worth it. And right.
Hey everybody, this is Maya from The MW Projects. I hope you all had a good holiday and a great start to the new year.
Just wanted to hop on here quick and let you know that the shop is back open and ready for new order. So definitely reach out and let's get connected. Now let's get back to the episode.
The girl that I just listened to that was just on there recently, she was talking about how her bishop told her like, well, if you have sex outside of marriage, you're like a chewed piece of gum. And nobody, nobody wants a chewed piece of gum. And Ali, I swear to you, I've been told that by a bishop too. And I was like, oh my gosh, is this just like a Mormon thing to where they like say that to people? And I think it's just complete bullshit and it makes you feel so awful about yourself.
Uh-huh. And I, looking back, I'm like, I was so hard on myself. And I think a lot of it was because the way that like, you know, whether or not people meant it, like— in lessons and stuff, it was like, I felt like such a shitty person just because it was like, if you're doing this, like, you know, regardless of what it is, if you're sinning in any way possible, you are frowned upon. And, you know, God sees it, and he sees everything, and he's gonna be very disappointed in you. And you're just like, oh my God, I'm terrible. I'm a terrible person. And nobody's ever gonna love me if I make any kind of— if I, you know, if I have sex before I'm married, like, if I get a tattoo or if I, you know, anything. Like, you just, I realized how much I was beating myself up because I was trying so hard to be perfect. And there's no such thing as being perfect, at least here on earth, you know? Like, everybody's gonna make mistakes and it's okay. And other people are just gonna make different mistakes than you and that's okay. But it just made, I was constantly feeling like, I was never good enough because I had to live up to all these expectations. And I was just— I was always embarrassed because I was like, everybody probably knows all the mistakes I've made, and I'm not gonna make it to heaven. And I don't know, like, I was just so stressed out, girl.
Oh my gosh, it's so crazy. And there's like a couple phrases that I heard growing up so much, like, what you're supposed to be doing, and also like choosing the right. And when I think about those, it just pisses me off because first of all, like, supposed to be doing, like, what does that even mean? I mean, each person is so different. We're all, you know, these, like, we all have our own souls and our own personalities. Like, what is quote unquote supposed to be doing, you know? Or like even choosing the right, like You choose what's right for you and what feels good to you. And so, I mean, I've even talked to my mom about this as far as like, okay, now I have my own kids. And when it comes to teaching Lily, we've just had this talk the last couple months that I'm just like, does it feel good to you? Does your heart— is your heart really happy? And of course, she's 6, so she— I mean, what is she doing right now? You know, nothing that could ever— but I just want her to like start feeling that now so that as she grows older, she can like look inward and be like, okay, is this what's making my heart happy? And even if it's not something I would do, if it's something that's making her happy, then that's fine.
That's perfect.
Yeah. And then that's what she's—
and I love that—
quote unquote supposed to be doing. And so I even have, you know, some LDS friends still, and I was talking to one of them, and she has a teenage daughter right now, and she was like, you know, just kind of like bitching about her, and she was saying, you know, how messy she is and blah blah blah. And she's like, she's just not doing what she's supposed to be doing. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, let's just like take a look. I was like, let's just take a step back. Like, she you should look at it as like she's this incredible human being. Like, I'm like, she was on the news, she volunteers, she does a bunch of service, she has a job, she— like, there's so many amazing things. And when you're 17, oh my gosh, like, it's you against the world, I swear.
Seriously.
And so I'm like, give her a little bit of a break. Like, she's working her ass off trying to make it in this world just like you are. Like, it's fine, you know, if she accidentally— or if she like was too tired to make it to seminary one morning, like, she's fine.
Like, it's okay, right? And I just—
yeah, I just feel like there was just so much pressure, so much like, you're gonna be in trouble, more so than it was like, no matter what, God loves you, be free, you know, do what makes you happy, we always love you. It just wasn't— it wasn't that way.
And I feel like, okay, so one thing that they always would teach is, you know, you're never going to have true happiness outside of the church. Like, you think you're going to be happy, but it's not. You're not really going to be happy. You know, it's just going to be temporary happiness. And I remember, like, you know, finding my happiness outside of the church and kind of being like, okay, Well, this isn't gonna last very long then if the truth really is true, because it's supposed to only be temporary. And I swear to God on it, I've still never been happier in the last 8 to 10 years or whatever since it was that I actually left. I still have never felt this kind of happiness in the church. And—
Oh yeah.
Said a lot to me and it still does because I still feel like, you know, I think that, you know, we still have our good feelings and our bad feelings. When we do something, we're obviously gonna feel guilty. And I think that that speaks to me too because, you know, I'm not in the church anymore. I haven't been in the church in a long time. And if you have seen or heard some of the things that I've done in my past, then I definitely wouldn't be worthy of so many blessings. But how am I still feeling, quote unquote, the spirit? You know, like, I still feel like I have a good feeling when I do something good or a bad feeling when I do something bad. And I don't necessarily think that it's church related. I just think that that's kind of—
it's like a human thing. Yeah, yeah, like all humans have that. I mean, besides maybe like Ted Bundy, who maybe doesn't have that. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, there's a few people out there that are probably don't have it.
Right, but no, I totally— I feel like once I decided to completely step away and just be like, okay, I need to focus on myself, try and focus on what is the— because I feel like I went through some crazy shit between 18 and 20. And then of course, I met Ammon and we decided that we were going to get married in the temple. So we worked super hard. And so I feel like I literally went from like light to darkness back to light, you know, as far as like in church eyes, you know. Like, I was super— in high school, I mean, I always like obeyed everything and, you know, Laurel class president. And anytime that I did anything that was like questionable, you know, I would go to my bishop. Just like thinking about it now, I'm like, oh Help me. Um, anyway, I know. And so I think I, I really have been fully immersed in both lives, you know. I've been— I was fully immersed when I was young. I was fully immersed as an adult. I was reading my scriptures and praying and doing everything, and I still, like, I've still always been myself, if that makes sense. Like, it's still always been me, and I've still always had the questions. Even when I was fully immersed. So I feel like, well, there had to be something there if I was still questioning. And so when I decided to like fully step away, I was just telling somebody the other day, and I kind of got emotional about it, but I was like, I have never felt more myself, more grounded, more who I am than I do now. And whether that's just because I'm older and wiser, or because I I truly feel like I am free. Like, I feel— I just— it's just something that you can't explain unless it's something you've gone through yourself.
Yeah, exactly. I know, and that's exactly how I feel. Like, I feel free, and I feel like I kind of have like a weight off my shoulder. And like, in high school, I seriously, I was like, I was working hard on doing everything I could. I mean, I was still making mistakes, but I was going to my bishop and I was repenting of it. And so reading my scriptures, I mean, I missed softball all-stars every year that I made it because it was the week of girls camp. And I was like, no, I have to go to girls camp 'cause that's the right thing to do. And that's what God would want me to do. And so now looking back, I'm like, sometimes I'm mad at myself 'cause I'm like, I missed, I feel like I missed a lot of things. And I missed out on so much because I was really thinking that I was doing the right thing. And to be honest, I was like judging so hard when I was in the church because I was like, how could other people do that? Like, God was— God would be so disappointed. And now I look back and I'm like, oh, I was a terrible person.
It's so weird. That's how my mindset would work too. Like, I would be like, oh my gosh, like, she has a steady boyfriend and like, that's not what we're supposed to be doing.
It's like, he needs to focus on going on a mission.
Right. And I just am like, this is wacky. Like, this— I just look back and I, I really think that after I listened to, you know, the Mormon Stories podcast, and I've just listened, or, you know, just heard more and more about people who are slowly deciding that, you know, the religion's just not for them, and how they've separated themselves and they're living, you know, freer, happier lives. And it just— it's insane. And I, I think that it's especially just so crazy to me because we grew up in such tiny LDS communities, and to have so many of us like who grew up together who are like, what the fuck? Like, what did we grow up in? You know?
Yeah. And like, you kind of look back and you're kind of like, this is a little crazy. And but I also remember like, so like when people who are still in the church, you know, talk about the church now and, you know, the way that they defend it, like now I kind of like sometimes in my head I'm like, they don't realize like what that actually sounds like. They don't realize like what they're saying, but it's just because, but I know where they're coming from. I'm like, I used to have that mindset, right? Like I used to think, I used to fully believe it. I defended it. Like, you know, it was my number one priority was, you know, I got to make sure that I'm doing everything in church and that everybody else is, you know, that I'm teaching it the best as I can, you know. And looking back now, I'm like, oh gosh, now it kind of sounds crazy to me. But it's— I think it's also because I've just like opened up my mind so much, right? And I've kind of learned a lot of different things that I had no idea about back then, right? And I'm just like, okay, now it sounds— I mean, it sounds a little crazy to me, but not that it's necessarily wrong, because if other people believe it or, you know, if it works for them, more power to you, because maybe some of the things I believe in are a little crazy to other people, right?
Yeah, I know. And everybody like has their own beliefs, and obviously we all experience things differently, and we all perceive reality so different. I mean, you could be sitting in the same room as somebody and both have completely different experiences. And I mean, that's the beauty of being a human and being able to connect and, you know, be friends with so many different types of people. Like, it really is so amazing. And I, you know, I'm glad that I, that I was able to at least experience it and have that now as like a Okay, like, I've been there, I've done it, I've been fully immersed, and you know what I mean? Like, now I— now I know, like, it's a legitimate choice, whereas before I felt like I was just doing it because I was told to.
Hi there, I'm Allie. I was raised Mormon and realized when I was about 20 years old that my heart was pulling me in a different direction. I needed to find what it was that I really wanted in life and not what someone else wanted for me. I started reading and questioning and following my heart for once. It's changed my life in ways I wasn't expecting. I feel free, relieved, confident, and most of all, happy about it. The God I believe in is unprejudiced. He wants us to be our best selves and to be happy and comfortable with who we are. Life is hard and crazy, but it's also beautiful and exciting if you open your mind to it. Find your truth, however and whatever that may be. I promise you won't regret it.
Religion is such a personal thing. It's sacred and between you and your God only. Have you ever heard of the "everyone is touching the elephant" analogy? We may all believe different things, touching the elephant in different areas, maybe one of us on the tusk, the other at the tail, leg, or ear. Essentially, we're all touching the same thing. I think our chat happened at the perfect time, right before Valentine's Day. Roses are red, violets are blue, follow your heart and find what's true. Am I right though? I wanted to remind you that you can help support the podcast. It's kind of like a monthly subscription. It helps me purchase quality recording equipment so I can keep bringing you amazing guests with great content. If you decide that's something you want to do, it's totally optional. You can go to the Anchor app and click support. Easy peasy. All right. I love you. Hey, give someone a flower on Thursday. Tell them they're cute. Send them a handwritten note. Spread all that love. Put Ally and I back in your ears next Monday. And have a great week.
