How To Freelance and Get Paid To Do What You Want

Welcome to my podcast, The Red Door, where humans share their stories. Our stories are what bring us together, connect us, and how we feel a little less lonely, giving you the reminder that you are not on this journey by yourself. As a collective, we share emotions and feelings, not the same way, but we each know what anger feels like, frustration, abandonment, insecurity, and what shit is fake or not in alignment with us. It is my mission to provide a platform for you to get vulnerable and share your experiences with the world. There is always at least one person listening who will be transformed by your message. Remember that the next time imposter syndrome pops up and tells you, you aren't ready, or you aren't good enough. Or that no one cares. Tell that voice to fuck off and then DM me. I'm here for you now and always, not just to hype you up, but to guide you down a path of mindset shifts so you can do the holy shit, this is hard inner work and create the life you love. If you're ready, enter here.

Hey, hey, hey.

It has been a minute since I have produced an episode. I'm sorry that I've left you guys hanging. Actually, you know what? Fuck that. I'm trying not to apologize for things. So, you know what? Like, I'm not really that sorry in the sense that, like, I've been busy and had shit to do, but I'm going to go ahead and just apologize for leaving you hanging. Like, that's what I'm sorry about, because you know that I was super efficient, very regular for a long time. And then I just decided that it was turning into more of a job and work, and I was getting a little burnt out, not speaking and sharing stories, but just the monotonous, like, recording, editing, producing, sharing, putting it up. And I wanted to take just a little bit of a break. So now I record when I'm feeling extremely motivated, and it's totally reminded me of my passion that I have for it. So full circle. I can't believe that I have been doing this now for 2 and a half years. It's just insane. But the reason I started the podcast, and I've told you guys this before, is I wanted to give a platform for people to share their stories because I have connected with so many people. I mean, just like you, right? You, you connect with people your whole life. You meet incredible people. Most people that you know, we all have stories, we all have experiences, we all have shit that we should share, and sometimes we don't. Because it feels weird to broadcast it on social media sometimes. Sometimes you want to talk about it on social media, but then you get criticized for it. And so I really wanted to provide a space for people to just show up, share their story, and not feel weird about it, because we should We all share our story. Today I get to talk with one of my favorite humans. I met her because we both work remotely for the same company currently, and she is just— oh my gosh, her energy, her vibe, just who she is as a human. Made me instantly want to be around her. We've had multiple conversations around work, around life, around just helping people in general and, and providing support to people. And I loved sitting down with her and talking about like work experience in general, but also like remote work skills you need to be a remote worker because Hi, hello, it is not for everybody. Just like anything. I mean, everything, right? I don't know if I'm like built to be a construction worker or an accountant or a scuba diver, just like those fields might not think that it's fun to work from home. So it was awesome to sit down and talk with Yaa She has her own private practice. She has so much life experience. I cannot wait for you to listen to this episode and hear exactly what you think about it. And I'm sure you are going to just fall in love with her just like I did.

My name is Ja, as Kristjana mentioned. I have a BS in communication from Northwestern. I've been a personal trainer for over 10 years, and I'm currently a nutrition and dietetics certificate candidate. And I just applied for fall match. And that's just a fancy way of saying I have to go walk around and shadow someone for 1,000 hours to qualify to sit for the RD exam, which I anticipate sitting for in 2022. But as my, like, I guess I would say this, I've spent 10 years as a trainer, but I've also spent a good chunk of that as an entrepreneur. And a big part of it has been working for myself and working in a freelance capacity. For other people. So I worked as an in-home personal trainer for myself. I worked as a group fitness instructor for myself, as well as independent contractor at a therapeutic wellness facility. I own my own in-person brick-and-mortar business where I do resting metabolic rate testing, body fat testing as well. And outside of that, even though my job titles have varied, I feel like people are like, what are you doing this year? What are you doing this decade? I've always had the same mission, which is helping people lose weight, primarily teaching them calorie counting and how to improve their just everyday habits around like grocery shopping, movement, just being more mindful in eating. So my mission hasn't changed even though maybe my job titles have varied over the last decade. And currently I'm really focusing my energy. I really niche down to helping couples lose 12, 15, 20 lbs. without focusing on exercise, really primarily through calorie tracking. In particular, I love teaching the macros. And like I said, the habit coaching is a big part of that. And doing so, I feel like it's a big thing for them to feel empowered and not be given like a paper meal plan or shortlist of foods to eat. So that empowerment and providing people skills that they'll use for the rest of their life means a lot to me. So that's a really big piece for me, is making sure people feel empowered. You know, money could be the focus for a lot of things, but impact to me is really important. If you make impact, the money comes. And outside of that, I've been really loving supporting other people as they grow their business. I learned a lot, and a lot of people often ask, well, if you've been working for yourself, why would you go and work for other people? And honestly, I didn't want to live in a silo, and I found like working for— I've worked for two registered dietitians, and one of them I worked for like 2019 into 2020. And then my most recent experience is actually more on the business side more so than the nutrition coaching side. So I've been able to have two really unique freelance independent contractor positions. And yeah, I can't wait to share more.

Um, I love that you talked about how people say like, what are you doing this decade? Or like, what are you doing now? Because I think that I can relate to that. And I actually started this podcast and kind of started like a little God, I wouldn't say it's like a tagline, but I feel like I've almost lived like 5 separate lives, right? Like when I was a little kid, and then when I was in high school, my parents got divorced, and then my college years, whoa, and then my first marriage. And that like, I'm like, there's just been these chapters of my life that have kind of, obviously, they've shaped me and into the woman I am now. But it almost feels like it's like separate lives for me. It doesn't really ever like interchange. And maybe that's just the way that I view it. So I love that you said that because I've asked people on the show before, like, what life do you feel like? Do you kind of relate to that? Like, what life are you living now compared to maybe the life you thought you were going to live when you were like 18 years old? Like, is that— did you always think, yes, I'm going to be an entrepreneur? I'm going to be like, what were your dreams back then compared to what they are now?

Yeah, it's so funny. Anyone that knew me and I would say college more so high school had poor fashion sense, but I was like committed to being trendy in college. So everyone that knew me in college knew I was all about fashion. My nickname was Shoe Love. I had it like in parentheses, you know, on Facebook. Everyone used to back in the day give themselves a nickname. So it used to be, "Ya shu love Gucci." It was a whole to-do. It was a whole to-do. So funny enough, I really thought I was gonna go into fashion. I started a fashion photography group with a couple friends on campus because we were like kind of the outsiders. We tried to get into the more traditional like fashion photography magazines and stuff on campus and doing kind of like fashion journalism, but it was like so hoity-toity because it was Northwestern. I was like, I don't have time for this. I don't have time for this. I'm from the South Side of Chicago. We know how to make our own way. We don't believe in waiting for opportunities to come to us. So I really took that South Side mentality and took it upon myself with others to do our own thing. And we actually even did like custom clothing. We would stud clothing. We were in a fashion show on campus. And really, I thought for sure I was going to do something in fashion. And I worked in retail too. At any given point in time, I had at least 2 retail jobs. Upwards of 3. I worked at a maternity store while working at a resale store while working at Urban Outfitters. Like, I was juggling like quite a few retail gigs in downtown Evanston. So a lot of people like, oh yeah, she's definitely going to do fashion. My undergrad degree, I had a hyperfocus in screenwriting, and I thought for sure like the communications background with that, I was like, oh, I can see myself doing maybe fashion journalism, though I wasn't in the journalism program. On campus. I had started a blog and I was like showing all my Jeffrey Campbell shoes when Jeffrey Campbell—

Girl!

—was a whole vibe. Like I was like probably his number one influencer before they were influencers. I was all about the Lita shoe. I had like 15 Litas in like different colors. I would go on all these like random websites. I used to know about 20 different shoe websites to find stuff. Like I don't even remember them now. I remember like Pokémon, like collecting them all. So I thought for sure, and everyone around me, thought for sure I was going to do something in fashion, but I honestly thought I was going to be working for other people. Most recently, I had an interview with a woman that was interested in my nutrition services. We went to undergrad together. It was really funny. And she like reached out, she's like, oh, who do I know that knows anything about weight loss? Like, oh yeah. But during our interview, she's like, we all knew you were going to be an entrepreneur. You just had that go-getter attitude. I would say probably other people saw it, but I for sure thought I was going to work for other people. And part of the reason why, my dad and my mom were entrepreneurs when I was growing up. It is very, very rocky. It is not fun. I'm just gonna put it out there. It's probably an unpopular opinion. We really glamorize entrepreneurship for the flexibility and the free time. And those things are great, but it also comes with a lot of hard work. Like you don't get overnight success your first year or two. It might be 10 years of doing stuff, and then you wake up and you're an overnight success. But it's like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of nights of going to bed with uncertainty and action too, like action, having an action plan and taking action daily that you can really find it. So I saw that hustle and I was like, ooh, I think I'm just gonna work for other people. I like the consistent paycheck. So I did work for other people. I did work for other people. I worked as a manager at Aldo. I worked as a manager at Urban Outfitters. I worked at— as a manager at Michael Kors lifestyle store. So I've— I had a lot of great leadership opportunities. But I will say, you know, it is very rigid. Like, for instance, at Michael Kors— I love working for Michael Kors. He's a fellow Leo too, which is awesome. I love Leo energy. But at the company, you know, we had like a fashion wardrobe budget, so we have to wear the latest collection. So you couldn't even have any identity in your fashion. So I already Express, but I kind of like wearing my own clothes. And like, I was automatically trapped in that position where we had to wear the latest collection, you know, sell up that. And I love the clothing, don't get me wrong, but it was just kind of like, man, I wish I could just kind of wear what I'm wearing now on this podcast or something, just wear what I want to wear. So that's kind of the funny thing. And then Urban was actually complete opposite. You can wear whatever you want, like the, the crazier the better. Parents would be like You've got like 5 holes in your tights. They're like, where can I buy those? I'm like, ma'am, this is just from like— I've been like scraping myself against all the shelving around. That's why these holes are here. Yeah, like, oh, but they're so cute. And I'm like, I love— I love working at Urban. That was one of my favorite retail jobs to this day. I honestly was obsessed with the environment.

Yeah, that was a vibe of that store. The whole vibe is like I'm totally down with that vibe. Yeah, I love it.

But I just didn't see myself there long term. A lot of people there, you know, I saw them try to go up the ladder and how hard it was. I was like, eh, it's probably not worth my energy. But as a company, it's great. But moving up, I was like, nah, I probably don't see myself here. And when I worked at Aldo, I had just an amazing manager, Adam. I had a couple managers. I worked at two locations, and the one in the Water Tower location, he was just really outgoing. He was just so boisterous. He made that experience great. But again, very strict rules. Like we had really specific KPIs, which everyone has come to know, whether you're a freelancer or you work for someone else. Like we had conversion tracker. So like we could count everyone that came in the store. How much did you sell during this hour when you had this many people? And again, it just felt very rigid and it kind of took the fun out of fashion. So part of it was I found something kind of flawed in each experience. Michael Kors, I couldn't kind of wear what I want. It lacked the individuality that I was seeking. Though it was a great environment, it was fun working in semi-luxury. At Urban, it was just no— there was just basically ceilings on ceilings on ceilings. And I kept seeing people bump their heads on the next earning ceiling. So I was like, eh, that's probably not the move either. And then in Aldo, it was so much data. Like, oh my God, I love data and I love it now, but it was a lot. It was for shoe care, it was for jewelry, it was for people, it was— the standards and the display, it was like, it's great for like scaling, but it was like very limiting because I just felt like, wow, this is really stifling. So kind of to answer your question, I didn't really see myself in entrepreneurship, but it was a series of working for other people and putting myself out there that I saw the allure of what could be possible working for myself. But I didn't go into it necessarily about money as I did like wanting to have control over something. And then if I had an idea, knowing that it would be implemented And that's been kind of like a fun thing to see working as a freelancer too, because, you know, sometimes it doesn't work out. Like your ideas aren't implemented and you kind of wish, man, I wish I really was an actual employee of this company. And then other times it is implemented. So I've had fun working for myself because if you find the right environment, you can get that sense of being a part of a company, but having the freedom as a freelancer. And if you can find places like that, that can be really wonderful matchup.

I think that you hit the nail on the head with, um, number one, experience. I think my, my work experience working for other people for a decade almost allowed me to become like a kick-ass freelancer because I had learned so many things over the years, like good, bad, scary, ugly, what I hate, what I love, what works or it doesn't work. And I don't think I knew it at the time, but I was probably just internalizing it. I was viewing it. I had feelings about it then. And then when I decided to become a freelancer, it all was just like a light bulb. I was like, ah, okay. And just like you said, being an entrepreneur or a freelancer working for yourself, oh my God, it is not like, I don't even— what is the word? Like, I think a lot of people, or at least this is what people have brought to me, like, that must be so nice, Kris. Like, you can sit at home and do your laundry and do your dishes. I'm like, girl, I sit in the same room from like 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. and like rarely eat lunch if I remember, you know, or like I'm just constantly going. I mean, obviously I'm working on life balance. We all know that. But I think that a lot of people have that like envision in their head that when you quote unquote work from home or like #laptoplife, that you really are just like fucking around sometimes. And I'm like, that is totally not the case. However, I guess it could be like, that's what is attractive to being a freelancer is if you did find a gig that really was part-time or the part-time that you are looking for, like somebody who needs to be a community manager in UK hours that, and you're a night owl, perfect. That like works great for you. Or like there, I feel like the freelance/contractor life can ultimately be anything that you want it to be. And I think that it's hard sometimes for people to, to grip that or understand it. I was talking to a dude yesterday. He has his own podcast and he was kind of, we were talking about mindset stuff and I was like, I think I have like this, what is it called? Like when people ask me, oh, like what do you do? I immediately am like, oh, I don't want to talk about it because number one, then I have to explain all the things I do. And people are like, what is that? Like what? Like you schedule social media posts and like write blogs and edit podcasts? Like, what is that? And then I'm like, forget it. I don't know. It just, it like takes so much time to explain. But I'm like, why, why do I feel like a resistance towards it? I don't know. Because I want to share the message that you can do it. But it's like this, I don't know, man. It's weird. Like it feels weird sometimes. Do you have any insight into that?

Yeah, I think the resistance is it's for a very certain person.. And it's not like you're advertising someone to be a cashier, and it's not like you're looking for a lawyer for your law firm where there's very specific, like, standard procedures and hiring and teaching. Our job is really based on whoever you're working for. So it varies. And I think because it varies so much, it's very hard to kind of nail down. And I mean, and ultimately, I guess it comes down to like what you, what you're doing. It's like, I help entrepreneurs save time so they can focus on the stuff that they really want to do. But when people dive in a little bit more, it's kind of like, but the things I do to do that and afford them that freedom is like wildly crazy. It's like, and it's not always traditional. Like sometimes you might have to spend, you know, 5:00 AM to 7:00 AM like brainstorming or something. And I think a lot of people, there's a lot of judgment. People aren't open to non-traditional careers and it's very easy for people to say, oh, I could never do that. And I think most of us don't want to sign up to be a part of some type of pity party that we're like, I don't feel bad for myself, but you're making me feel bad for what I'm doing. But I'm helping someone grow their business. And it's weird because a lot of people are just used to being worker bees. And to say that I'm not a worker bee, I'm over here helping someone like build this treehouse instead, people are like, why are you doing that? That's not what worker bees do. This is what we do. We do all this stuff with the honey. Like, no, I'm going to do something different. And it makes people uncomfortable and they want to challenge it. And I think part of it is the fear that they have for themselves to possibly be doing something, like they could be doing something, but they're not. And they're holding themselves back. So they project on other people to say, almost like, oh, she's going to tell me all these things that she does. Oh God, that just, that sounds terrible. What really they're trying to say is my life is terrible. My job is terrible. No offense to people that really like their jobs. But there's some people that are judgy mcjudgersons. And those people usually have something that they're dealing with. And I think that's why a lot of times freelancers don't want to explain what they do because there's— then you have those people that are just kind of like, "Oh, I could never do that." And they try to convince you of the righteous, the quote unquote righteous path of like collecting, you know, W-2, W-4, whatever stuff every year. And I get it, but it's also disheartening because it's like, I don't want to sit here for this pity party. But then you have some people that are so cute, secure and love what they do. They're like, that's great. It's great to do what you love. I think it's so important. And those people like what they do, but I think there's something about the, the unknown and like the yo-yoing of what your day looks like that is so scary because we're regimented to kind of go here for this semester, go to, or go to these classes this semester, clock in at this hour, um, turn in an assignment at this day and time. Like, people are used to doing that, but to tell to be the person to have to do all that stuff yourself, like set up your day, set up your quarter, set up like what you're doing. That scares a lot of people and they just have a lot of judgment around that, which is— it makes it hard to have that conversation.

I think that's really great insight because I think too, um, I'm like, girl, I have so many, so many thoughts now. But yeah, coming from that my whole life, coming from the 8 to 5 and being extremely, you just get into like these habits that you don't even realize are necessarily like, I guess, habits. But then yeah, as a freelancer, that's one reason that really pulled me in that direction or one thing that I was just like really yearning for was flexibility and not in my schedule. Like I could be a pretty regimented person and like wake up at 6, go to the gym. Like, that's fine. But when it came to like the work I was doing, and I just saw that in my everyday life, like at one point when I was a single mom for a little bit, I was working like 4 jobs and it wasn't like a bad thing. Like I loved it. Like I was, you know, working as a legal assistant. I was also, you know, being a fitness instructor. I was being like a beer tender at a local brewery, which also gave me that like connection of talking to so many different people. Also getting to try the beer, which is not a bad thing. So there was so many things that I, I've always loved to have my, my toe in like multiple things. And I used to even in like the quote unquote real world when I was like working real, a real job or with a real schedule, people would be like, oh, Kris, like you're all over the place. And it almost like It made me feel bad, even though it totally shouldn't have, like, because I loved what I was doing. I might have been tired. And looking back, it's totally different when you're working for jobs because you have to work for jobs, even if you do love it. It's different than being a freelancer or even not a freelancer working for jobs because you want to work for jobs. It's a totally different vibe. But I love the variety of it that, like, you know, on Mondays, maybe I'm really focusing on like helping a client with PR outreach. So then I'm like connecting with journalists, I'm figuring out like what podcast they would be a really good fit for, I'm like building out that list. And that's like super fun for me. And then maybe on Tuesday, I'm like recording a podcast and then also working a lot on like helping my clients edit their podcasts and get them scheduled and writing show notes. And it really is like a fulfilling for me a fulfilling career path that like, obviously when I was 18, I don't even know if I had necessarily like a plan. I was just there to like party and have a great time and learn. And like my first semester of college, I just took all the classes I wanted to take. I had no idea. I was just like ballet, perfect. Yoga, absolutely. Spanish, yes. Like music theory, 100%. Like my whole schedule was just like, random classes, but I loved it and I really did have a great time. It wasn't until my second year that I was like, okay, like let's maybe figure out, like get a little bit more niche. And even then that was like hard for me. Like I'm like, how about I just learn everything? So I think that becoming a freelancer for me and for my personality in the sense of loving that variety was like, was one of the best things that I could have ever done. Yeah. Even though, even though just like you said earlier, some months could be— I mean, freelancing, sometimes your gigs are like really short. Like it's just like a short time. Like, hey, I'm looking for somebody to, you know, really beef up my blogs. I'm just looking for, you know, like a blog writer for 10 blogs. I'll pay you this amount for 2 months. And then you have to like find another client or, you know, so it's a totally different like arena than just walking in and being like, hey, look, I want to apply for this position with these exact same, you know, with these exact skills and requirements. Whereas a freelancer, it's like different. I don't even, it's just like up in the air. Like you said, each job is different. Each entrepreneur is different. Some people are super laid back and very like you do it, you take the reins. Other people are very— they know exactly what they want and they can relay that to you. Like, I want this, this, and this, like, please deliver it. And other people are like, I have no idea what I'm doing, please help me. And then they look for— look to you to kind of guide them on that road. And so it's just like, it really is super fulfilling to my personality for sure that I get to hit all of those different like categories and things. And I also think growth— I have a growth mindset of I have never been scared to just like jump in and try something. And so if a client is like, hey, do you understand like the back end of this? I'm like, not today, but you better, you better know that tonight like I'm gonna be like YouTube, you know, all night long like trying to figure it out. I'm gonna download it myself. I'm going to sign in myself and like figure it out. I was like, but don't worry, like by tomorrow I'll know it. So yeah, it's definitely like you said too, it takes a, you like a certain type of person because even though as like, you know, being a freelance mentor, some people show up and regardless being a helping somebody and guiding them on their path, Whether or not they want to be a freelancer or not is totally already something that it's like my passion. I love helping people. So whether they come to me and really within that first hour, like, "Okay, I actually don't want to be a freelancer. That sounds really scary and I don't want to." I'm like, "That's totally fine. Let's figure out what you do want to do and then I'll just tailor and help you down that path." But it really does. I've had a ton of women be like, okay, uh, freelancing, like, how do my skills in life transfer over to like the remote world? Did you ever come up against like having that feeling, like, how do I utilize all of these years of experience? Or was it pretty easy for you to be like, okay, no, like, I know exactly what I'm gonna do online?

Yeah, so that's really funny that you, you bring this up. This is why I say it takes a very specific person And you said it, you have to be that go-getter, like, "I will figure it out tonight. I don't know it now, but I'll figure it out." That is the essence of freelance. It has to be because you're never going to be able to pay yourself if you're not willing to go in it with a growth mindset and everything's like, you can figure it out as you go. So people that are, not to say that the people that have no clue how it can translate are like struggling, but I think like the best freelancers though are the ones that are just kind of like not afraid. Like, you're gonna put something in front of me, Cool. How much time do I have? Okay, I'm gonna figure it out. So I was never afraid because I've always liked the variety and I like learning. I really like learning. So I never came at it from what has my past life experience taught me to freelance. That's a good place to start. I kind of just said I have a willingness and I love tight deadlines and I like time frames. I was like, okay, let me just kind of figure it out. I think that was what worked for me and I think it's just the way I grew up. Like I grew up you know, having to cover a shift at the last minute at work, or being asked to babysit at the last minute. I also like to just spin as babysitting. And I think I was just so used to just doing things kind of last minute, kind of random. Like one day I'm babysitting, one day I'm folding jeans, next day I'm talking about tops for breastfeeding. And it was just like, yes, like learning. And I think retail, I owe a lot of that to retail, where you would be given like the latest style sheet, like, okay, this is our new denim. These are kind of like the things that are different, like it has these front pockets, this wash, and being able to communicate that information. And because I was always in environments where I was forced to learn stuff kind of like on the, on the nose, like you sign in, okay, we have this shoe care line that we're implementing. Okay, this is what you need to know about it. I just think I just kind of put myself in a position to be like, yeah, I'm just going to show up and sometimes I'm going to have to learn something new today. And it really translated well. And I didn't really think about how it prepared me for doing freelance. I kind of just showed up to the interview. I'm like, I'm going to figure this out. The job at the therapeutic wellness facility, I was only my second semester in, in my dietetics DPD program. And it was working for a dietitian. I would be doing personal training and nutrition counseling and grocery store tours. Never did a grocery store tour ever before. Never did any counseling in this regard, like following— I was like, I'm going to just figure it out. I'm going to show up to the interview. I'm going to communicate my skills. I have nothing really, no exact like page for page, line for line experience doing what was on that job description. For some of it, the training stuff I did, the rest of it was totally going to be me figuring it out and like kind of like, okay, what's a good way to do a grocery store tour? You know, how do I explain this to someone who's like never been grocery shopping? Being like thinking through that process. I was like, I'm just gonna figure it out. I just showed up and like, I'm gonna figure it out. And that's the attitude I take with everything. Even with my most recent gig, I was a client within the mentorship. So teaching it, you would think would be easy, but it's different when you have to remember what it's like to be a beginner again. So I had already been through it. So I had a bias in how I would explain things. So I had to really sit back and like, how would I explain this? But I went in it with the attitude of, I'm going to be innovative and think of like cool ways to really inspire people to get it because I get things because of who I am. But I realized some people don't think the way that we do, Chris. So the way I took to like creating content, the way that I took to sales calls, the way that I took to some of these things are so foreign to people and it scares them. I'm like, I'm not afraid to do like, oh, you want to practice? Yeah, let's practice. Let's do it. And I didn't realize that, you know, some people don't have that in them and it's It's really tough. It can be really tough to pull it out of people, but I found like being a freelancer has really opened up my empathy and has allowed me to get really creative in the way that I communicate with other people. And that's why I like it. I think if I would have been pigeonholed in a role where I was kind of just kind of doing the same thing, maybe there's updates to the way that we do things every quarter or a few times a year, I wouldn't be challenged. And it's very easy to become like kind of like sour, bitter, and just like out of touch. Freelancing allows you to be really in touch, but you really have to just be that person that likes having sweaty armpits and just being told something that you literally have to Google what you were just told. And that's rewarding. I feel like life experience could prepare you to an extent, but this will really still throw things at you where you're like, I literally, I'm going to have to go to Wikipedia for this.

Oh my gosh. I love that. When I, I don't really sit on my ideas for very long. Like I'm an implementer. Like I usually, when it comes to anything, chopping my hair, as you can see, I'm like, needs to happen today. And so I, a few months ago I was like, you know what? I should probably try group coaching at some capacity because it could potentially be really great. I could potentially love it. For me, I don't love group coaching only because I think that everybody comes in at a completely different level. And I love like the very personalized focus. And so when all of my girls, you know, came in, I had like 9 people. And I'm like, yeah, let's talk about freelancing. And all of them like came with a completely different question, a completely different mindset, and at a different level. Like first of all in life, and then just second of all, in like, from work experience. And so I think that for me, because I, I am already like a natural empath and just very like, I can like feel energy and I like immediately was like, felt overwhelmed myself for a second. And I was like, oh my god, there's so many things to touch on there. But it was good for me, I think, to just jump in because then I knew the next time what to expect, how to prepare, how to be ready. The question, like I already knew, like I already pre-thought about what those questions that they were gonna come with. And I'm like, girl, I got you. I thought about this like all week long. And so I think that that almost, that can kind of correlate into your jobs or gigs as a freelancer. Like you can set yourself up for success by going in with a mindset of like, Okay. I already have these questions to ask. Like when you're, I'm like, okay, I've totally switched gears as far as like finding your clients, right? Or working with the people that you want to work with. You can go in and already know what value you can bring to them, how you can help them. But also with a growth mindset of what are you looking for? Because let me tell you, girl, my personality will get that shit done for you. Even if I like don't know it. Today, I will learn it. And so I don't, it's just, I'm like, I feel like I'm just saying the exact same shit, but really, I think that it's always like, you're just always learning, always growing, always trying something different. And the impact that you make, or even just like the reach, meeting people that you never would have met ever because you're working online with people. I mean, My clients have been all over the place. I had one girl who was living in Bali. I was super jealous of her life. It was amazing. Like, she would just wake up and get fresh juice and like bike through the rice fields. And I was like, listen, we should probably have a meetup. I'll just come to Bali for a few weeks. Um, and I've had clients, I mean, in Cali, New York, like Texas. They've been all over the place. And and these amazing women who I would have never met. I mean, and so it's just, it really just all around is obviously I'm like, I'm a little biased, but I really am like, I always am like pumping up freelancing. I'm like, it's not easy. It's not just like boom, overnight I'm making $10K. It's like after 3 years of like trying everything, everything, literally just trying everything, like and finding clients and researching and Googling and YouTube tutorials and like figuring it out myself. Like finally after 3 years, it's like, okay, like now I can truly say I feel comfortable in this space and like I'm starting to now maybe almost like niche down a little bit more. Whereas before I was just like, Anything you want, I'll do it. And then finally I'm like, okay, but also how do I balance my energy? How do I balance providing what I'm truly good at versus what you need? And so I've almost like tagged myself as like, I want to always be a resource for people, right? So if I'm not the right fit for you, let me give you 10 other names of people who will be a good fit for you.. And I like, I found myself even just in the last few months, like I'll have people reach out and be like, hey, like you were referred to me via, you know, like for podcast stuff. And I'm like, I don't really have the time right now. But girl, here's like 5 people, here's their information, this is what they're good at, contact them. And then let's talk back and like, see if they were a good fit. And then I'll just like check back with them and be like, hey, were you able to connect with Susan? Like, did that work out? Just because I always want people to know that they can come to me as a, as a resource. And even if I won't, you know, be on their team or help them at the time, that I could always provide them with something, whether that's another freelancer or advice or a strategy or a plan or whatever it is. And so it's almost like helped me unlock these skills that I didn't even know I had, or passions, like a passion I didn't even know. That I had. Did— has, has working online or being a contractor kind of like opened up a new avenue that you were like, oh my God, I didn't even know that I liked doing this and now I love it?

Yeah, so you bring up such a good point. I think what's really interesting— I'm gonna go back, backtrack a little bit to your first question about like past experience, because something came to me. I do think something that's really important if you're, if you're reflecting if this is for you, like think about transferability. There's like really a few things that really are important: your communication skills, your ability to manage your own time, and then your ability to manage stress. So if you've ever been in any position where you've had to do any of those three things, that's all you really need to do freelancing, I personally think. Um, people are used to— yes, right? Yes, yes. Because if you're in a place where you didn't ever have to manage your own time and it was like someone did it for you, like then yeah, you're probably going to struggle with this. If you're someone who never really got to talk to people, you were rarely front-facing, you're going to definitely struggle. I'm just going to put it out there. This is probably not for you. So those— I think it's like really important that we kind of look at that and kind of like really sitting with ourselves, like, do we have these qualities? So I just wanted to say like that would be my answer to that first question. But to come back to this question about did I like find something that I wasn't sure if I was even into to begin with. Yeah, that's the great thing about freelancing is it's a good way to figure out what you're good at and what you're not good at, or things that you may have not even thought were like things that people would pay you to do, which is really cool too. Like, you get paid to do that is like kind of like a really cool thing when you think about it. I would say the good thing about what Chris just said about just taking on all gigs, as much as niching down is like the core of a lot of industries I do think for VA work, it is actually a lot helpful to just dabble in a lot. Maybe you're, um, doing— maybe you have an accounting background, so you can do profit loss statements, and then you do graphic design, and then you do website management, and then you do like graphics for their Instagram, or you're doing like PR work like Chris and stuff like that. I think it's so important to have all those skills because they're going to teach you something that's going to transfer, and it's going to make you really a hot commodity because you can communicate with people in that manner. So I think a lot of VAs struggle is because they get so niche, really specific, like so soon that if you go and work for a tech person and all you, all you have is your graphic design focus, you're not gonna— you're gonna have to spend a lot of time kind of hustling that up versus if you work in how to do someone's WordPress backend or you had to do like figure out where you go to get an SSL certificate, or like where you have to go to like understand like the privacy policy, then you can better communicate with them. But if you hyper like specialize in all the cutesy stuff that you like to do, you're missing out on an opportunity to be a better communicator, and you might be missing out on money because you could learn about something that can allow you to amp up your prices even more. So I think that's kind of really interesting that you brought that up. I do think the variety of it all is really cool, and I would say for me I would— I didn't think I was going to love coaching other people as much as I do. Like, I'm a very friendly person, I love giving advice. I get the sense from you as well, Chris. We've had a lot of conversations, but you know, we don't get paid to do that. We would do it for free, right? And I, I really like it, and it's not something I ever thought I— well, first of all, I just didn't think I would ever get paid to do it, you know, in that sense. Like, and fairly good money. I was like, oh, this is actually It's like, oh, I get to just share with people what I'm passionate about. So you just never know when you get a chance to find something and that you're passionate about and get paid for it, which is really exciting. And then other stuff like creating TikToks and Reels. I would, I never even posted one on my own personal page, but I got paid to learn how to do it and create it. And it's just, that was really cool too. And I didn't realize how much I liked it because I was so against it. But when you're a freelancer, things that you were probably super against, you might come to love. And when you're getting paid to do something that you're like, oh my God, I'm not interested in learning like another platform, you might come to love it and it might be totally your thing and you can freaking crunch them out and charge a premium because they are really hard to create and someone wants to offload that stuff. So it's, it's kind of cool in that sense. But I totally agree, like it's definitely afforded me an opportunity to find out the things you can get paid to do that you probably didn't think you could get paid to do consistently. At the same time, challenging your fixed mindset of like avoiding things and then allowing you access into arenas that can make it easier for you to take on more gigs and like diversify your clientele.

I love what you said about, um, like not, not even knowing that you could get paid to do stuff like making TikToks or just coaching people, like Hell yeah. Love that stuff already. But yeah, to get paid for it, absolutely sign me up. But that reminded me of in Jen Sincero's You're a Badass at Making Money book, which I'm sure everyone who writes about money mindset and stuff like this, or I've heard it multiple times, is envision that life that you want, right? The life where you are working for money and your work is totally something that you're passionate about and you love. But I would 100% like would say, if anything from this episode, like get this and start already envisioning yourself like buying a laptop, working online and doing stuff that you love to do. Obviously, if that's what you're listening to this episode for. If not, and you're just listening for conversation, like great. But if you're looking to become a freelancer, I think that like just envisioning yourself, whatever that looks like to you, whether it's just because you want to work from home for a little bit more flexibility, whether you want to be a digital nomad and travel the world, or whether you're in a situation like me and you're traveling back and forth across the state every other weekend. Like there are, you can make this life work no matter at what level you're at. And so I would being like, being able to envision yourself, like creating or learning and doing it all from your laptop is gonna be like 100% one of the best things that you can do for yourself. Because once you envision it and you can hear, you know, my story and y'all's story and so many other women and men and humans who do this, like you can totally fucking do this. And like, yeah, it's scary and it's hard and it's frustrating some days. And sometimes it's like, holy shit, I just lost I lost a big client, how am I going to find another one? Only live in that mindset for a second because you already were able to find other clients. You know that you can find another client. You know that you can do this. You've already been doing it. And then it almost opens another opportunity to, hey, what have I not tried yet? Like what have I not gotten into in the remote world yet? Like let's try that now. Let's see if maybe that is a better fit for me right now. And I mean, we're humans, we're evolving all the time. So just because you liked creating Pinterest graphics and, you know, doing that for a second, a few months ago, doesn't mean that now you still like doing that. So it's just like checking in, you know, like with yourself and being like, okay, what am I really into right now? What can I provide somebody? And really as an entrepreneur, this is why I hire out myself is my time. So if I need more time, then I tap into my network and I'm like, who can help me? Like who wants to manage my QuickBooks? Or because I'm not a, I'm not a pro at that. Or who wants to help me create my content because I'm helping my clients create theirs, you know? So I'm like, you have to learn how to like outsource and delegate yourself so that you are giving yourself time. But it's like really being a freelancer can be whatever it is that you want it to be. And you, it can be a side gig, it can be full-time, it can be when you want. It's, it really is incredible. There is one more thing that I wanna touch on before we leave though is, and, and I've come across this being in the freelancing world when I like pitch and I pitch, I've never been afraid ever to like just shoot for the stars. I'm always shooting like way high all the time. And so I'll even see, I'll come across like a job post It's like, you know, looking for blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, ooh, that's me. Perfect. And in like the tiny print, it's like W-2 employee. But I'm like, I'll just, I'll just reach out anyway, because I think sometimes they don't even know that like a contractor might be a better fit. However, I think that as an employer, there's like a misconception maybe that an employee is, is more, um, stable or more committed. Whereas from a contractor standpoint, I'm like, if we have a really good relationship and we're vibing and we can grow together, I am totally committed to staying with your company long term. Like, just because I'm an employee or just because I'm 1099, like, in my head doesn't— there's no difference really. Have you ever come across that? Or even as like an employee, employer or your own entre— like your own business? Like, do you have a mindset around an employee versus a contractor?

Yeah, so this is a great question, and I can talk about it from a couple different angles. But before I answer, I wanted to kind of touch on kind of what you said before, which is like believing that you can do this and it— you can do it in any way that makes you feel good. I think it's so true. I work and I have my own company that I work like every weekend. I do weekend work and then I do my freelance work Monday through Friday, and then I still have classes. So I do like on average, I would say recently about 13 or 14 hours of freelance work a week. And that works for my schedule and it's extra money every month, which is great. So just know you really can do multiple things. And I still have like pretty decent space on my calendar to do stuff like this. It's not like from the waking hour, I'm like, oh my God, on my laptop. So I definitely want to say that. And the last thing I wanted to say on that note is, you know, we really have to channel our inner child. Like, remember when we would read about fairy tales and really think there was like a princess in a castle and we believed in dragons? You have to really write down what you want and you had to remember what it was like to be a kid and believe that all that stuff was real. And I think having that, that passion and that why, like Chris said, is so important. Like, why do you want to do this? The freedom and flexibility is so key, like nailing like what that is for you. Because I just heard somewhere, and I wish I could attribute who said this, but I think I was running through a bunch of YouTube videos in the background in my headphones, but this guy said money is a result, not a purpose. So when you write your story, really think about all the things that afford you— the prince, the horse, a fairy tale ending— not like bucketloads of $10,000 a month or $20,000 a month, because That is not a purpose. Your purpose is going to allow you to have that fairy tale that is going to very much become a reality. So I just wanted to touch on that. But to answer your question about the difference between freelance and working as an employee and kind of like the misconceptions around it, I'll start with when I had a salon. I had a salon in the West Loop of Chicago. I was a licensed nail tech for years and I had 11 employees at one point in time. So I will say this, whether you pay people well, and you have kind of the resources, it really comes down to their purpose. So it's actually a nice little segue to what I said, you can have people that are employees that don't really have a purpose. They're just here, there to collect a paycheck. Hmm. Yeah, which is really unfortunate. You can have freelancers that have a purpose, they know what they're after. And it's not about paycheck, they just love what they do. And they're going to continue forth. So at any point in time, there is no guaranteed relationship as a 1099 or an employee. Either one of those people can leave you at any time. So really, when you're hiring, you should be really looking for people that have a clear purpose, have a clear outlook, are really talking about value that they can add, not so much what are all the benefits and what are all the things I get being here, how much hot coffee and free donuts do I get, how much vacation time. It's very evident. You really— it all comes down to looking for people with a purpose unless you're just a company That's a churn mill. Some companies don't even care if you have a purpose. They're just like, you're a warm body to fill this space right now. And I know it also comes down to companies having their own energy behind that. And that's a whole nother conversation. But in essence, regardless where you fall on the spectrum of I need a warm body or I'm looking for people with purpose, you really should be attracting people that can be with your brand consistently because your internal workings is going to really resonate and it's going to kind of peek out behind the curtain to your people that you're providing a product or service. If you're always turning around your own employees, you're, you're lacking the consistency that's going to allow your company to do great things. And a way that you can really get consistency is maybe leaning on remote workers from time to time, because maybe your salaried employees are really stretched thin. So, you know, you want to keep your finger on the pulse for like how you can balance some of these things. Sometimes it's not in your budget. To necessarily onboard and do all the tax obligations for another employee, but you can lean on a freelancer and still get quality work, especially if you vet them and see what they're available to do, like what their energy is, you know, kind of tapping into that. I know that there's no energy working, like training for HR people, but you can get a good sense of people. But if you could just use your energy radar, you can hire really great freelancers. I think the problem is if you go at it thinking that these people are temporary, they're not going to care as much as we do, and you treat them as such, well, they're going to react as such. So it's a mutual energy exchange. It's a mutual energy exchange that really matters. If you make people who are freelance feel like they're employees, they're going to react like employees. If you treat your employees like they're freelancers at your disposal, they're going to leave you. So it really comes down to how you communicate and the intention you set with people. And I think both serve a purpose and for financial reasons as well, why you might want an employee versus a contractor. And both have really interesting opportunities that they can present to you. And you may think, opportunities to present to me? It's like, yeah, because if you're getting employees that are coming from working from other companies, they're bringing that experience. If you have a freelancer that's working in different sectors, they're going to bring perspective and insights that you wouldn't have already gotten. Because typically you're hiring people that are just in like sector internally sector hopping to just kind of move and make more money. A freelancer brings this really cool outside perspective, and they're industry hopping, they're sector hopping, which is really cool, and it can bring some fresh perspective. So in essence, I think both are really important, and we just have to change the narrative and the higher hiring policies just to really adapt to that instead of like treating people like temporary. There's just like this energy around it, and I'm like, yeah, but with value, with purpose, with energy, not just temporary. It's like there's more to it than that.

No, I love that. And I don't know if I told you, but I'm in a PR course right now because I've always loved PR and I've helped clients with like podcast PR for the last couple years. But I was like, there's a totally new avenue for me, right, to learn editorial, TV, like all of that. And so I was like, okay, invest in yourself and learn some more stuff. So I've been taking this PR course and I love it. And this lady that's running it is, oh my gosh, like this course is just jam-packed with value. But she, tomorrow is our call with Jason Pfeiffer, who's the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur, which I love Entrepreneur. It's like one of my, I've always read Entrepreneur. And so I'm stoked. And we got to watch this webinar that he did And he said something in the webinar that was like, okay, most publicists are bad at their jobs. And of course I'm like, oh shit, what am I doing? Like, how can I learn from this? Like, how can I be better? And he said, because a lot of people, what they want to do, especially with publicists, is they almost want to like rent your media list, right? To just pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch. Without a purpose, without like a true meaning or story. It's, it's just very like self-serving, right? Like, get my shit out there. And they treat editors or journalists or producers as kind of like a service-based business. Like, here's me, how— look how amazing I am, feature me. And he's saying like, that's not my job. My job is to serve the public, right? Like, I'm bringing them stories, stories that are going to touch millions of people. And like, yeah, maybe your story, like there's something in your story that's very fascinating and like that will be the hook. And so as somebody who wants to start like providing PR services or more PR services is I was like, ah, like almost like, so the deliverables that I could give my clients is all about relationship building. So As soon as I have a good relationship with someone, and that might foster, or that might take time to build for like a year, then we could maybe pitch them. But like, you don't just like pitch people just to be like, hey, I really need media press, like I have a really cool company. But like, he wants to know like, what did you figure out within building your company? Like, How did that, how is that trend? How does that transcend? Or how can that be relayed now to the public that's going to inspire them? So like, he gave this really quick story about this woman who had pitched him to write about her company. And he said, you know, he got to like the second paragraph, and he was about ready to be like, man, you know, like, this isn't, I'm not going to talk about her. And then she said in there that she hired, she wanted to do market research, right? So she like called the company to do market research for. And the company said, we're going to charge you $10,000 to do market research. And she was like, yikes, like I don't have $10,000. So a couple weeks later, she was in the airport, you know, getting ready for a trip. And she was like, oh shit, I'm in an airport full of like thousands of people. Oh my God. And totally utilized that time that she had like before her flight. She went around to everybody and was asking them about her product. So she did her own market research, saved $10 grand, and this story was able to then be featured and inspire thousands of other entrepreneurs, right? So I really loved how he said, we're not robots, right? Like we're humans. So if you pitch us and then like within 1 second of connecting with us, like it feels icky. Like I don't want to, you know, like I'm not here to to necessarily like, you know, talk about your business. But with the intention of helping other people, then I'm there. Like then I'm ready to listen to this story. And so as I'm writing out my own services, right? And building out kind of like my deliverable package of like what you get when you sign me on as a, you know, to work for you, is I was like, my business is in the relationship business. Like I build relationships So if you're just looking for like a media list built out of like 100 people to cold pitch, like I'm not your girl because for real, I really am. And that totally transcends in my personal life and in my freelancing life. And what I give my clients is I'm like, I don't want things to be impersonal. Like I'm developing my entire brand of who I am and how I show up as someone who builds like true relationships. And I loved that he said that because I don't know if I would've thought that. Like I honestly thought that a publicist's job was to pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch for their client. But now I was like, ah, like it makes sense. Like I do this in my personal life. Why wouldn't I then do that in my PR, you know, side of my freelancing business? So anyways, I just wanted to share that with you because I think that you are really good at building relationships, like true relationships. Like you don't just show up and say like, hey, I'm here for you for 1 hour. Like I'm here for you no matter what. So connect with me, talk to me, come to me with your struggles, even if it is, you know, outside of our allotted time. So I really— Yeah. I think that that is so important as, yeah, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a freelancer, but also just as a human in general, right? Like how you show up always. And that's one reason why I just, I love you and connect with you so much is I'm like, you get me like 100%. Like there's more to just showing up and like providing that service right then. Like there's like heart and soul and passion that come with it too.

Yeah, 100%. You have to, you know, meet people outside of the time clock. It's very easy to say, okay, we're on the clock right now. But if you really want to establish yourself, people know time is valuable, time is money, we've all heard it. But sometimes you just have to use your intuition, be like, is it worth it for me to just stay on for an extra 10, 15 minutes with the client? And that will help you big time. So anyone out there that is on the fence about doing this, if you like relationship building, if you like talking to people, there's so much good that can come from being in this line of work for sure.

Yes, I love that. Okay, well, thank you so, so much for taking the time to chat. I'm so glad we got to connect. And yeah, this, this really was such a great conversation. I'm like, I love how I feel like you are very like a very structured list, uh, giving answers, and I'm just like, let's touch on 87 topics all in one.

I love it, I love it, I love it. I don't mind. It's good to switch it up. It's a good challenge. That's kind of like, that's freelancing. Like, you're not gonna be prepared, and I like it. I like conversations like this.

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