The Power of Gratitude and Forgiveness

I'm Kristjana Hillberg, ex-Mormon and mom of 3, and this is I Fucking Knew, a show where we break down life's unexplainable moments, the times when you know something's off but you can't put a finger on it, or you're drawn to a path that feels right for you despite others' opinions, and when your gut feeling was just too loud to ignore. Each episode features a guest who shares how their intuition showed up for them, everything from vivid dreams that a partner was cheating to meeting someone and instantly know and being called to just do something else. These are the moments that change our lives forever. Ready to strengthen your intuition?

So stoked that we get to talk about trauma today.

Yeah.

And how to move forward and talk about forgiveness and gratitude and all of the things that go along with it. And I know both of us have experienced trauma in our lives. I mean, do you want to talk a little bit about your own experience and how you were able to move forward and kind of like how you implement gratitude now? Like, can we talk about that?

Yeah, let's, let's get right into all of the good juicy stuff. So growing up, I had a very traumatic childhood. Not to say that every single second of every single day was traumatic, right? Like, I had good moments. I have blissful memories with my family. But I did, at a very young age, I suffered through sexual abuse. I was molested and it went on for a couple of years. I had emotional neglect from my mom who dealt with a lot of mental health issues. So she did the best she could and she did what she could with the capacity that she had. However, that still looked like emotional neglect. Physical abandonment from my dad. And then at a very young age— some of your audience might like drop their mouths— but, um, at 12 I met this guy who I ended up— I started dating when I was 14, got pregnant when I was 15, moved out when I was 16. Like, very fast-paced, um, wasn't the healthiest relationship. So in that relationship there was physical, mental, emotional abuse. It was very controlling. Again, I have happy memories with him. I stayed with him until I was 26 years old. But there was just a lot of trauma that was embedded in that relationship. Two amazing things that came out were my children. I have now— oh my gosh, she just turned 18. So that's just still crazy to say I have an adult. And then my baby turns 13 in July. So I'm like, I don't really have children anymore. I have a teenager and an adult. But yeah, so if you fast forward through all of that, I, at 26, like I said, in 2013, I just decided like, I don't want to live my life like this. I don't have to live my life like this. I can change. And I kind of started my path with spirituality and learning about like manifesting and that we could create our lives. And so I was like, why wouldn't I create a life that I love to live? And so, yeah, I started that journey of personal growth and development and started my forgiveness journey and really started to embody gratitude and not just saying thank you. Like we all know we're taught at a young age, like somebody gives you something, say thank you, say please. But it's like really knowing how grateful I am just to breathe, just to be living. And then you start looking at like having electricity, looking outside and seeing butterflies. And when you understand deep gratitude like that, then you see the abundance that's in your life. And I mean, from there, like, the sky's the limit, right? Like, they're not even— the sky's the limit. There is no limit. You can just start daydreaming and then taking inspired actions and bringing your dreams into fruition. And that's what I'm passionate about. Like, our past, it doesn't define us. It builds us. It helps us to become the humans that we are, and we get to process and forgive and implement and change and pivot and then learn, grow, and move forward. And I mean, I think that's what I've done. So I like to say post-traumatic growth because I've grown through all of it. It wasn't easy. Like I said, I just gave you like a lot, and you know, that was a span of 26 years, but damn, it's been worth it.

Oh my gosh. That's a lot to have gone through. But oh my gosh, I love that you said that because change and choice is so powerful. And I remember how I felt when I realized that I had a choice to change the way that I was living. And I think that all growing up, I thought that I didn't really have a choice. I just like did what I was told, did what was expected of me, all of the shoulds, right? Like, you should be doing this. And so it was such a powerful realization when I was, I mean, 20— gosh, 24, I think, that I was like, okay, like, I'm not happy, something has to change. And that kind of spiraled. And I mean, it wasn't always like happy. It was definitely a lot of like experimenting. And, and I mean, I, I drag about— I drug a bunch of people through a shitstorm that I was going through too, and it was dark sometimes and scary. But here I am. I mean, I'm like, how much, how much later is that? Yeah, but several years later, and have created a life that I actually like dreamt up instead of just staying unhappy and scared.

Yeah, and that's the thing too, like, I don't strive all the time for happiness. I also have a history of mental health issues, so a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety. And so sometimes, like, just neutrality, like, let me just get to a neutral place because I don't want to sit and like, this suck. But also, with that being said, I know a lot of women who are like, I want to change because I'm not happy, but is that enough? Like, I am not happy, but that person's happier, but my children are happier, but I have a good job. And I'm like, no, if you're not happy, that's enough to make a change. You don't have to be suffering. I think that's why a lot of us manifest, and this is a little controversial, but manifest being sick because we really want to change. We really want a break. We really want to slow down and we don't know how to just advocate for ourselves and be like, actually, I'm going to pivot right now. And so we manifest something big happening in our lives because really that's our way out. That's our key to freedom and to choosing a different path. In 2018, I did a speech and in it, it was all about kind of that, like the power of choice. And I coined this term, no more boxes, no more labels, because within these processes, people are always putting us into boxes and putting all these labels on us that do define who we are. And I mean, we do it too. And that's where forgiveness comes in because you can forgive what other people have done or said or even thought about you and forgive yourself, like have that compassion and that love and that patience and understanding for what you've grown through and then forgive and then start taking all these labels off, deciding which ones you want, like put as many labels as you want onto yourself. But then like what other people dictated for you, they'll be like, nah, like that doesn't feel good anymore. And then climb out of those boxes and be like, fuck it. Like, I just— that's not me. That— and with that too, like, I— and I've— I'm guilty of this— being on one path and then thinking like, oh my gosh, if I change my mind, I'm not credible. If I change my mind, people can't trust me. Like, I can't have a new viewpoint. It's like, well, actually you can. Like, that's a part of evolving and growing, is that as you learn better, you do better. As you learn more, you get to say, hey, that doesn't resonate with me anymore. Like, I'm not in alignment with that viewpoint or that belief system. I'm going to change it. And it's just— it's calling back all of your power so that you can do that, so that you can decide who you want to be. And yeah, I said I wanted to create a life I'm obsessed with. I used to journal that over and over and over because I felt like I was pretty obsessed with my children. And I'm remarried, so my husband that I'm with now, which I tell him every day, manifested him because He's like, he's like, he's my kind of perfect. And so I was obsessed with him in a very healthy way. But there was like, it's like you have this life puzzle and there were pieces of my life that I wasn't obsessed with. And I was like, I can have everything. I think that's the other thing is like we feel like if it's so good, something has to fall or break. Like it can't be perfect. And I was like, well, what if it could be perfect? Like what if your life could be Perfect. I mean, perfect is what we decide it is, right? Like, no two people will say the same thing's perfect. But what if you could decide what perfect is for you and you could have a pursuit of that, knowing that perfectionism is the messy stuff? Perfectionism is being like, hey, today I'm going to watch Netflix and chill all day because that's perfect to me in this moment. And so I was like, I'm going to create a life I'm obsessed with. And now everything I do I mean, it's so intentional from my thoughts to the food I eat, to movement, to jumping on a podcast with somebody. I'm like, what is going to serve me in the best possible way? And Janelle, like pre-2013, wouldn't have thought any of this. And that's how I know that like we can change anything in our lives, whether it's your hair color, your nails, your clothes, like change it.

Wow.

Okay.

There's so much to unpack. Everything you—

I'm sorry, I'm such a talker.

I love it. And I know the audience can't see, but like the whole time I'm just like nodding my head. Yes. Like silent snaps to all of it. I'm like overstimulated because I, I tend to want to talk about everything like all at once, and then I like branch off. But okay, number one, I loved how you talked about— and maybe you didn't say this specifically, but whatever you said reminded me of the book Untamed by Glennon Doyle. And when I read it, love, she talked about like being a mother and how becoming a mother, sometimes you like become a martyr, right? Like now my entire life is centered around my kids and that's like who I am and what I do. And I remember feeling like that. And I also remember feeling like that was my only fucking purpose. On the earth. Like, I, I don't think that I felt it. I think I was told that in like my religious culty upbringing, that like, you are here to be somebody's wife and like have 10 babies, and like, that is what you're here for. And so I think that when I had my first child, which, don't get me wrong, yes, I was obsessed with her and I loved her so much, and I loved being a mom. But I was like, wait, like, I don't feel all of a sudden complete now. Like, I was kind of expecting that because I was told that that's like— that was the whole reason why God put me here. And so I was so confused as to why I then still felt like pulled in other directions. Like, I still felt pulled to work, and I still felt pulled to like do things that I wanted to do. And I almost felt like guilt and shame for it because I felt like Fuck, why am I getting this wrong? Like, why do I still have this like yearning to do other things? And I mean, fast forward later and now I have 3 kids and my thought process around it is so different. Like, I'm like, my kids are an extension of me and— but I am still Kris. Like, I still have the exact same level of like wanting to do my own shit. Building a business, like being hot, like all of these things that don't really have anything to do with my kids. And it feels so different than it did when I was 22. Can you relate to some of that, or have you like worked with women who have also felt that way?

Yeah, I was just gonna say, so all of my clients are women and a good majority of them are moms, and 100% this always gets brought up because everything that you said is so accurate. Like We have this innate belief system put into us that you have to be a mom and you have to raise these kids and you have to put them first. You have to do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, like, back up. I'm my own human. And with that being said, in total respect, they are their own humans. I don't need to control every aspect of their life. My job is to raise them the best possible way that I can. I tell my kids everything. I'm the most transparent person just in general. I don't want people to ever guess about me. I want them to know because I'm very clear and I do the same with my children. Like everything from— I had the sex talk with my daughter when she was like 9 and people were like, what are you doing? I'm teaching her like this is, this is my job. I have to teach her and I do everything by example, meaning I'm going to fuck up too. And you're going to see. And then you're going to see how mom processes. You're going to see how I forgive myself. You're going to see how I let things go. You are also going to see how I struggle with, like, my children know all about depression and anxiety because I talk to them about it and they have so much knowledge. And with that, my children are, I mean, I am biased, of course, because they are my children, but they have the most open hearts and souls and minds and they don't ever judge anyone. They don't form opinions based on appearance. Like, they are just such good humans and I think like I will pay tribute to me being who I am and letting them see every phase of me and letting them see the messy parts. And I'm just so much honest communication with them. But yeah, I, and even my children know this too. Like, again, I got pregnant at 15. I was somebody who, like, when, when my friends would play with Barbies and babies and want to be moms, I was like, I'm going to be the career Barbie. I don't want to play the pregnant person. I don't want babies. Like, I was like, what are you kidding me? And then when I had my daughter, the same thing. I was like, wait, I don't even feel truly connected to her. Is this what a mom should feel like? I went into instant baby blues, which is just like post-baby depression. And I remember crying to my mom like a couple of days after I got home, and I was holding my daughter, and I asked my mom to come over. She lived 2 doors down from me, and I was just bawling, and I was like, I don't even like— I don't feel any different. I feel like I'm holding somebody else's baby. I don't think I'm going to be a good mom. And like all of these things. And I think some of that too is like, people don't talk about this shit. Like you don't talk about even half the things that go down in the delivery room and you don't talk about the aftercare and you definitely don't talk about self-care because it's supposed to be that you're all about paying attention to this new human you just gave. Meanwhile, your body's like, wait, What the fuck just happened? Like, some serious stuff just went down. Pay attention to me. And what I really teach women is like two things. Number one, you have to fill your cup up. We all know that. But I teach them like it's not even about the tippy top of filling up your cup because then even one drop to somebody else, you're depleting yourself. So you have to overfill your cup and you give from that overflow. Like, so anything that you can do to give to yourself first, It's a necessity. And this goes into being selfish. I don't paint the word selfish by saying like, by being selfish, you're selfless because you give to others, which is kind of the truth. But still, can we just honor that it's okay to be selfish? Like even in the direct definition of it, it's all about paying attention and caring only of yourself. Now, if you do that 24/7, 365 days a year, you're probably an asshole. Like, maybe people are a little irritated with you, but if you are taking a pocket of time every single day to be selfish, that's— we should all be doing that because that's how we give to ourselves. And then we can give to others or give to our business or just continue to grow. But you have to give to yourself first. You have to be selfish. So just that alone, I mean, I've seen women change their lives. Just having that knowledge, it's powerful.

I love that. It's so funny, Kurt and I literally were just talking about this yesterday, and we were talking about being selfish or things that we were selfish in. And I was like, I feel like there's certain things I'm selfish in, maybe like sometimes sex stuff. And also, yes, also like food. And I was like, you know, for a second I was like, food? And he's like, you don't want anybody to like eat off your plate. You don't want anybody to like have a bite of your dessert. And I'm like, yeah, fuck that, don't. Like, I ordered this, this is mine, you eat your own thing. And he's like, you're even like that with the kids? I'm like, yeah, 100%. Like, they have their own food. But, um, just talking about that, I love that you like said it the way that you did, that like being selfish is okay. And also, I think it was just kind of nice for us to like just sit and like talk about it. Like, oh yeah, I'm definitely selfish when it comes to that, but like, I don't really feel bad about it, you know? This is just like what feels good to me.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's like— it plays into having boundaries too. Like, the kids know one of my boundaries when I'm being selfish is like, if I'm gonna go take a bath, that's my time. Like, that's mommy's time. My children Yeah, they still will follow me like into the bathroom when I'm going pee and I'm like, what are we doing? Can I go to the bathroom? Um, but they know like if I'm in the bath, like leave me alone unless like you're in a dire need, then figure it out yourself or like go to your papa. That's what they call my husband. Like go get somebody to help you. Don't come into my space because this is my space and it's protected and Um, yeah, I, I love that you're selfish with your food and stuff. Same way, like, uh, what are you doing, homie? That's mine. Yeah, I'm like, no, I don't give bites.

Sorry, I don't give like tries. No. Um, oh my gosh, I love that. Another interesting thing is I had a guest on a few weeks ago who was talking about Human Design, and before I had her on, I was like, I don't really get it. I don't really know what that is. So I should probably like get my chart and have you help me through it. So like I understand and I'll probably use this for fucking ever because it was very helpful and very insightful. But if people aren't familiar with Human Design, it's basically like Zodiac meets love language meets chakra, like all the things. And as we were looking at my chart, she kind of described it as like a car battery. Like, we each have a different type of battery. And so she was like, you— which I love this because if you— if people know me, I guess even if you don't know me, you might just like catch this about me, but I like to coin the fact that I am unique. Like, I've never liked to like fit the mold. I'm like, you know, we were just talking about this, like labels. Yeah, no, like fuck that. And so when she was like, okay, this is you, like, this is very unique to you. And I was like, yes, like, I felt like very like seen as a unique human, which is kind of funny. But she was like, your battery is a lot smaller than like somebody else's battery. So you need to recharge a lot more, like have alone time, you actually recharge by having alone time where some people do recharge by just like sitting on the couch with their family can still be, you know, surrounding them. And then she also, which was kind of interesting to me, is if you've ever seen a Human Design chart, you know that there's like all of these shapes all over the body and colored in, some are open. And she was like, your sacral energy is open, which is very interesting because you have 3 kids. And so like your kids and your energy, like your energy in your sacral area is not like solid and steady. It's open, which means that like you are probably fucking depleted all the time because you have kids. And I was like, yes, yes, I'm like, I've been telling my husband this, I've been saying I'm fucking tired. But it all makes more sense that like I haven't been prioritizing alone time to recharge. I just thought that recharging really just meant like sitting on the couch, maybe with my kids crawling all over me, but at least I was not quote unquote working. So I want you to kind of talk more into like maybe giving some tips to women who are feeling like exhausted, or that they come with baggage, or that they are tired, but they don't even really know like where to start. Like, let's talk about some tips and strategies.

Oh my gosh, yes. And I too, I, I love this because you and I are so like in alignment. Like even before when we were just chatting, It's like we just was like, oh yeah, me too. We do. I just got my Human Design because somebody I had, I had this lady come into my community and teach a masterclass on Human Design. And I was like, I don't really understand this whole Human Design thing. And can I— I'm going to get my chart. Can you tell me about myself? And so that's just so funny because so I was trying, I was looking, I didn't know if you Sorry, but I was like looking around for my paper because I'm like, shit, where'd my human design go so I could see what all my stuff was? Oh yeah, so much of that makes sense. I think that, um, okay, let's talk about— so when you're stressed out or you have all this baggage, you don't know where to start. First of all, I think if you have baggage, it is important. We don't need to sit and like sit in our sadness and sit in our trauma, but we do need to process it. So I— and I just got back from vacation, so this is a perfect analogy. Like get your baggage, get your suitcase, open it up, go through it, wash what needs to be washed, throw away what needs to be thrown away. Like, that's all about the healing and the forgiveness and kind of deciding who you want to be and what you want to do and then knowing that you get to make those decisions. And then at the end of the day, if you need to as well, like, get a new fucking luggage system. Like, you don't need to carry your baggage around. Like, I hate when people say, like, you always go into a new relationship with baggage. And it's like, wait, what? Like, Why are you— there's just so much that society tells us and that becomes our belief systems and our thoughts and our thoughts dictate everything. They dictate how we feel about things. They dictate how we perceive the world. And then, like I said, they're just so conditioned by other people. And so what I would say is two things are coming to me. Number one, if you don't journal, I'm an avid journaler. Like I journal everything. I journal my gratitude. I journal what I want for the future because I like to be future-focused, not past-focused. And I journal my celebration list, which some people call to-do list, but I like to celebrate the shit out of everything. So I call it celebration list. Like I just like journal, I journal, I journal all the time. And in doing so though, you're getting all these thoughts and these feelings and these memories out of your head and onto paper and it helps to process. And then I would say we love to outsource everything. Like tell me what to do, give me a blueprint, tell me how to feel, tell me how to speak, tell me where to go. Like I don't, I can't make any of my own decisions. Like, tell me, tell me, tell me. And I think that is because that conditioning of people telling us, like from a young age, you have your parents like, go here, go to the bathroom, go eat, like pick up this thing, do this chore. Like, so that's how we just grow up with that innate need for somebody to tell us what to do. And I think that the second that we can turn off all the noise, kind of declutter that space and then insource, meaning like ask yourself those questions. When I started this, um, post-2013 Janelle version of myself, I didn't know anything of who I was. I mean, I truly, like, if you asked me, what color of wood do you like? Brown, mahogany, black, white? I would have been like, I don't fucking know. I literally didn't know. One day I went to the store and I was like, What kind of wood do I like for my furniture? What kind of blinds? Like my ex-husband, when we got our home, I remember just wanting to pick out the curtains in our house and he took that on. It needed to be what he wanted. His— so even like the quote unquote womanly things, he still made all of those choices. And so I didn't know, and I just would do these like long journal entries of like What are my characteristics? Who am I at my core? What do I want? What do I believe? Like, without somebody telling me what to believe, what do I believe? Even things from like, do I like Pepsi or Coke? Like, what do I actually like? And when you can start doing that and unpacking all of that, that's how you call back your power. That's how you heal. And then that's how you move forward. It's like these little things that seem so simple because they are, like they're not easy to do, but they are simple. And, and then with that, having again just like that unapologetic permission to say, okay, this is what I like today, this is who I am today, but in a week maybe I'm gonna be someone different. Maybe I won't be the same version of myself because I'm going to decide I want something else. Because now that I have more freedom to live life my way and do it my way, I'm gonna decide other shit. Like, I didn't— I even for the longest time wouldn't cut my hair or change my hair color because I was like, no, this is what I've done forever. Like, I can't change it. Who will I be then? And it was like, whoever the fuck I want to be. Like, why are we so cemented into to this idea that, I don't know, we, we can't, we can't change. But I— so yeah, that I would say journaling and just figuring out who you are and what you want, knowing that it doesn't have to be that way forever. And then take the smallest steps. And if you have been in a relationship or in a situation where you didn't put yourself first for a long time, then you probably don't trust yourself. So do little things to build trust back up. Like tell yourself, it could even be in the moment. Like I have a Dutch Bros coffee in front of me. I can tell myself like, I'm gonna finish that Dutch Bros coffee in an hour, or I'm gonna drink 4 glasses of water today, and then do it. I'm gonna take a 5-minute walk. Don't say like, I haven't worked out in a month, but I'm gonna do an hour-long workout, because chances are you probably won't, and then you're disappointing yourself again, right? So I'm going to take a 5-minute walk. Anyone can walk for 5 minutes, walk inside your house for 5 minutes, but just build up that trust by telling yourself you're going to do something and then doing it. And yeah, like affirmations, mantras, like that's how we instill all of our belief again into ourselves. And I can't say enough about them. I know that some of these things seem cliché or like, okay, everybody says to do that, but there's power in it. Like there's reasons why we do these things and it's because our thoughts are so powerful, so we want to tell ourselves like 10 positive things for 1 negative thing so that we can get back on track. Um, so I mean, that's just some—

No, I love it, and it's not cliché. I mean, we, we learn by repeating. Yeah, so I love that you're saying this, but I also think that you can make it personalized. Like, you don't have to journal the way everybody journals. If you would rather you know, like sit out in your car and journal instead of in your bed, or if you want to journal at night or in the middle of the day, like you can make it totally personalized to you. And your affirmations can also be completely personalized. Don't Google what affirmations— just like, think about what like feels good to me, or what feels right, what feels happy, what do I want. And I think that that can sometimes be really scary because just like you said, we kind of seek outward, uh, thoughts and ideas and validation all the time. I mean, I've even done it where I'm like, what does everybody else think? Like, I'm gathering, I'm gathering, you know, doing market research. But that's, that's not true at all. I'm just looking for like somebody who's maybe done something that I want to do it that way, and I'm like, oh yes, okay, good. Like, I feel now validated that I can do it. So I think that once you turn inward, it can feel weird, especially if you haven't done it lately or in a while, because you're like, what the fuck? Like, is that really like my own thought? Is this like, where is this coming from? I can't hear it. Like, what is it? But I also think like, the more you do it, the more you sit with yourself. And yeah, people, you can call it meditation, or you can really just sit there and like try and, I don't know, dig a little deeper and just like allow it to be uncomfortable. And then your intuition and gut will start speaking to you. And the more you do it, the clearer it becomes.

It's your intuition speaking. Just kidding, it's me, Kris. If you've been yearning for more but aren't sure where to start, your life doesn't look like your own, and you're ready to make changes that lead to a reality that feels like you, I encourage you to apply for a 15-minute complimentary Conjuring call with me where we unearth your true desires and craft next steps that feel completely aligned with you. Click the link in the description of this episode to apply. Can't wait to meet you.

Oh my gosh, I'm just like laughing because I'm like, this is So I just like you more and more. Excuse me. But yeah, I mean, going back— excuse me, now I'm losing my voice. Going back to doing it your way, my Clients are always like, how do I meditate? Or can you write my affirmation for me? And I'm like, no. I mean, can I? Yes, can is the ability, but it won't be as impactful if you just do it yourself and having that trust that you can write an affirmation. Like the easiest way of writing affirmation, like you said, feelings. Everything for me is on feelings. I'm highly intuitive. I'm an empath. I'm sensitive. I'm an introvert. Like, I sit in my feelings, my feelings, have feelings all day. But then think about like, what in your life do you want to change or you don't exactly love? And you flip it. And that's, that becomes your affirmation or like your I. So if you're very shy and you want to be confident, I am confident. Like, it doesn't have to be some long-ass thing that you can't even remember because it's so long. And then like put them on sticky notes everywhere because going back to that repetitiveness, like we have to see it, we have to think it, we have to hear it. So tell yourself, speak in third person, like, um, yeah, all the things. And then, oh my gosh, you said something else I forgot. Um, but I did think of this too when you were thinking is when we, when we can tell our stories and share with others as well, like that's another way of, of not only processing kind of the past and the future and deciding what you want, or I mean the present and the future, but like when we tell our stories to others, it's like we're giving permission for them to know that they're not alone and also that we're not. So it's kind of that valid— that's— you said validation and it triggered story sharing. Because we're not meant to do this alone. We don't, we haven't walked through everything we've walked through alone. It's just that we keep ourselves in these bubbles and we feel alone. And I think feeling alone is one of the worst feelings. Like solitude is one thing. It's to be alone is something and then feeling alone is something completely different. And that was something else that I really struggled with the majority of my life is always feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm alone. I'm an outsider. Nobody understands me. Nobody would want to hear me even talk or know what I'm feeling or thinking. So I'm going to keep it all inside. And specifically with being molested, I didn't tell anyone that for years, years and years and years. And I think it was like 2018. Yeah, 2018. I finally told like my soul sister best friend and we were sitting eating tacos., and I was like, I just— she's just one of those— we just have one of those relationships where we can tell each other anything and we feel so safe and secure and supported in doing so. And I was going through the forgiveness process of forgiving this person for molesting me because that was like the last person that I forgave because it was the hardest because even in my own mind I couldn't process what had happened. I felt like shame and guilt and dirty. And when you're molested, there's also these other feelings that come because I mean, when people, when we're at such a young age and people touch us and do things like our body's responding in different ways as well. So you don't, there's just so much shit, right? Like, I mean, you know this, like there's just so much that goes on. And so there's so many layers of forgiveness and of of unpacking and processing. But when I told her, first being able to say it inside my mind, like I said, was a huge leap. But then telling her was so like, oh my gosh, like, wow, it doesn't have to control me. I don't have— my throat doesn't have to close up. I don't have to start sweating when I think about it. And then I waited like 2 more years until I— so in my Community, I have Story Sharing Night, which is just very intimate. We don't record it. It's just women can share their stories and some are like super inspirational and some are women sharing something that they've never told anyone. Women range in age from like late 20s to in their 60s. And I've had women in their 60s say like, I've never told a single soul about that. And I'm like, like you hold on to that for so long. But that's so in one of those containers is when I shared and it was one of the most therapeutic, like you couldn't. I mean, you'd probably spend hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars with a counselor, which I 100% think people— I mean, counseling and therapy is so necessary for a lot of these situations. But just that release of sharing my story in front of a group of women and having them hold that space for me without judgment, without comparing trauma— like, fuck, we need to stop doing that too. And then just for me to see, like, I'm okay to say these things. Like, this thing did happen, but it doesn't have to be something that stays a part of my life anymore. Like, that was just so powerful. So I think that's something else I'd really like to just share with the, with the audience, those listening, is it's okay to share your story. It's okay. I mean, community is important because you need to have those you trust. And community could be like a community of, you know, like a huge community, something, a membership, or it could be like your best friend circle, or maybe your community is just your spouse or your partner or your children, like whatever community means to you, just having a supportive system so that you can talk out things. Because as we hold things in, they stay in our mind. And then what happens is we have like our conscious mind and our subconscious and it ends up being on replay. So like for the longest time in my mind, it was like, I'm dirty, I'm shameful, I'm disgusting. People can take advantage of me, like anyone can do whatever they want to me. I have no power, I have no choice. And when I was able to really forgive, all of that fucking changed. Like, and of course there were parts, like, I mean, 2013 to '18, like I had grown stronger, but there was still that subconscious mind where I was like, gosh, why sometimes when I go to be intimate with my husband do I all of a sudden feel super disgusting and I can't do anything? It was like, oh, because that's the ticking clock in my head going like, you're gross, you're gross, you're gross. So, um, I mean, that— I mean, that's kind of like heavy emotional stuff. But I think that that's the kind of shit that— I mean, even talk— going back to baggage, like, that's why we have that baggage and we need to get the new fucking suitcase to be like, I'm done. I'm just like, fuck that noise. I'm done listening to it. I'm done reliving this over and over and over again. And that is why forgiveness is really calling back your power and I tell women that forgiveness is like if you have all these shackles on your body and then gratitude forms these keys because gratitude allows us to have that perspective and that compassion to forgive. But then you are able to unlock and then take off all of this weight, all of these shackles, and really find freedom and hope. And gosh, it is just such a beautiful journey. But it is a journey. Like it is. We don't— some things you can forgive quickly. That's the other— sometimes there's just so much with forgiveness, and we could talk about that all day because it stops people from forgiving because we have all these ideas of what forgiveness is. And like everything else, do it your way. Like, there's no, there's no one way to forgive. But yeah, I don't know. It's just, it is a journey, but sometimes it can be quick. And so It's just, it's however it is for you, and it's wherever you're at in your life. And then what happened? How many layers is there? How much work have you already done?

Oh yeah, but no, I, I can totally relate. I completely understand. I— shame is so shitty because, yeah, and I mean, it fucks with your brain. Um, I had a close friend the other day, she was telling me, Oprah has a new book out, what is it called? What Happened to You? And she said that she is reading it. And that it really breaks down how when you experience trauma, you legit start thinking differently. And I was like, oh, 100%. Like, there's a few different experiences in my life that I know for sure. That I started thinking differently, or maybe telling myself a different narrative. But yes, like you said, what's so beautiful is forgiveness and gratitude. And it really is. I mean, sometimes it does take a while, or maybe you think the person that you were going to forgive, like, it's actually a different person than you were thinking. Like, I've had that happen before where I'm like, oh, I'm really working to like forgive this person, but then I'm like, What the fuck? And then like something else comes up and I'm like, actually, I need to like work through like something else. So I think that it's like, just like you said, sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's not, but it's always a journey. And I also want to start talking about or bring up like kind of a taboo topic, but there's so many things, and you had mentioned this, is like that we keep hidden, we keep— we don't talk about because We don't want to be judged. We don't want to feel gross. We don't want to feel different. We don't want to cause hurt or pain. So we just like hold it in. And so I was thinking about this whole idea of like opening up and sharing with community and like change, right? So if you're unhappy with your life and you want to change, and all of a sudden, you're like, well, shit, there's so many things I want to say that I've been holding in, and how's that going to affect my family now? Because if you've been holding something in for a decade or two and you now decide you're fucking done and you need to change, well then what happens when you like express it out loud? Like, I'm even thinking like sexuality, or with fucking anything that you've like kept, kept hidden, or you want to leave a religion, or you want to I don't know, all of us— you have 4 kids and all of a sudden you're like, you know, I, I don't really wish that I was a mom right now. Like, there's so many things that we just hide inside because we're afraid. So how do you think we navigate that? And like, to honor ourselves, but to also like— is it important that we don't hurt other people? Does that matter? Or do you think that not— or being able to speak your truth is way more important than hurting, you know, like a ripple effect of people.

Yeah, so I love taboo topics, first of all, because I think that's, that's what I'm passionate about, is like talking about the things that people don't want to talk about, shining light into the darkness so that we can kind of unbury ourselves. I think Oh, a few things. So many things are coming to my brain. I'm going back to doing it your way. We have to honor ourselves and our stories. We are responsible for the energy that we put out in such a way of I'm going to share this and I'm going to share it with confidence and I'm going to share it in my best light without trying to hurt anyone, without any negative embeddedness right? Like, I'm just, I'm just sharing, and I'm just sharing my true authentic story and, and myself from my perspective, my point of view, because that's all we can do, right? We can't share from somebody else. That's like they say, there's always 3 sides to a story or whatever. It's like, of course, but you're sharing from your point of view. Um, you are not responsible for how somebody picks that up. I think that, that I could say it a thousand times. We— it's kind of like how we sit in this fear of judgment or not living up to someone's expectations. It is like all these things, it really boils down to we are thinking of what somebody else will think. And number 1, we don't know what they are going to think. We are not responsible for how they think. And also, if we are going to project, that is projecting, right? So if we are going to project that, hey, so-and-so is going to think this way or feel this way, they are going to judge me or they are not going to like me anymore. Why wouldn't you actually think, hey, this person is going to receive this with love? This person is going to have more understanding for me because they now know what I've been through. This person is going to accept me fully. I am supported in this process of me sharing who I am the best way that I possibly can, like project more positive feelings instead of going to the negative. But we don't owe anyone explanations. We don't owe anyone anything. So we, it's kind of like with forgiveness, like if you forgive somebody, you don't owe them even letting them know that you forgave them. Like if you forgive somebody, that's, it's for you. Forgiveness is for us. It's not for somebody else. So do it for yourself. Do it unapologetically. And yeah, it's so much more important to share and to be who you are than to hide these pieces because we're scared that 'Oh, somebody else isn't gonna like it.' And I say that with so much understanding because I too, like, with the person that molested me, it was a family member. I was actually— I've been sexually abused twice, both by family members. And, um, the first time I was very young. They still don't know what all happened, but my mom filed charges against this person, and so much of the family was so upset with my mom. And it was like because they of course wanted her to sweep it under the rug. And things happen inside families, all this other bullshit that really infuriates me because I'm like, what the fuck? Like, this is what is so damaging to us because people get away with shit and we don't say like, hey, no, you're gonna have consequences. Even if that consequence is just knowing what you did.

Yeah, they're not accountable.

They're not held accountable. Um, and then the, the other person It took a long time for me to share. I think besides all the stuff I said before, it was also like, how will my family respond? How will they react? Like, it's been years now. Now I've forgiven, now I've healed. What is it going to look like for them to learn? How will they process? And my mom is my— one of my best friends right now. Like, my mom and my sister are my best friends. My mom, my sister, my daughter, we call ourselves the she-wolf pack. Like, we're very close. But when I told my mom about what happened to me, my mom— and this is why it's important to understand that everybody has their own capacity— because she wasn't able in that moment to hear and to really listen and to process what had happened to me. And so her way of dealing with that in that moment was just to kind of shut me out, like Oh, okay. And it left me like, oh my gosh, like I just said what happened. At that point I had told like my— I talked to my sister about it and then my mom. And it was like, wait, am I not worthy of being held right now? Am I not worthy of being understood? Like, because worthiness is huge for us as well as humans. And it was really fucking hard. And then it was like, oh wait, this took me, by the way, lots of months. But to understand, she just didn't have that capacity because that was a lot for her to take on as well. Like, we are our own characters, like in our own movies, right? But you have to understand that while you're the main character and the director and the writer, it's all in your own movie. Everybody else is that same thing in their own movies and So when you share something, if somebody doesn't have the reaction that maybe you hope for, be okay with that. Be okay with saying like, okay, that's their reaction. That's how they handled it. I did my best. They're doing their best and let that be it. And then move forward knowing that like you can revisit or maybe you talk about it more at another day. You say, hey, I really need more from you. Like I need to know that you heard me. I need to know that you see me. Because I think at the end of the day, like, that's all we really want, right? We want to be heard. We want to be seen. We want to be held and loved and supported. And instead, we spend most of our days feeling judged. A lot of comparisonitis going on, feeling like we're not good enough, like living in all of these stigmas. And it just really holds us back and it keeps us playing small because we don't want to go out and live our best lives because we're like, how will that look and how will it affect other people? And it's like, Fuck that noise. Like, just go do you and be the best person that you can possibly be and live your dreams. Like, truly create a life that you're obsessed with. And as long as you're not walking around being an asshole to everybody, like, who the fuck cares? And then on the receiving end, like, let people do what they want to do. Stop judging everyone. Like, stop trying to control how they live their life. If you think they should do something a certain way because you would do it, No, like they won't do something the way that you would do it, and that's okay. We can have a difference of opinion. Like this whole cancel culture, it's because we don't let people do what they want to do, say what they want to say, think how they want to think. And we get so like, if it's not my way, then it's wrong. And so you either are going to cancel people or you're going to have people running around just lying their asses off because they're like, fuck, well, I'm not going to tell, I'm not going to tell Kristjana Hillberg that I feel this way because she's going to cancel me. So I'm just going to lie to her and I'm going to go do something And then it's like, oh, well, are you two-faced? No, but you gave me no space to be right now. But that's what— or it's also like, if you don't— if you truly don't like someone, hey, there's billions of people. Move on, go find somebody else. That person's not your person. Good thing that there's more options for you readily available. I don't know, I, I just like— I got a little passionate there, but I went on a tangent.

I'm like, everything Everything you said was just— it was great. It was beautiful. It was, I think, exactly what everybody needed to hear. Such a great reminder. Um, yeah, man, taboo topics are the best because I think that that's where we start breaking these societal habits and norms, is because for so long it's like, don't talk about it, don't speak about it, don't even think about it. And, and even when people do talk about it, it's still like, oh, like everyone gets super uncomfortable. And so I'm all about it too. I— Kurt and I both— well, probably more so me— but being very open, like, with our kids about everything. I mean, I have an almost 9-year-old, and even just like me being uncomfortable, I'm like, okay, because I'm uncomfortable, it means that I need to probably talk about it, right? Because I don't want them to grow up in think that like we keep secrets or that we hide things or like, I always want to be able to hold space no matter what it is. And just like you said earlier, like our kids aren't— I hate, maybe not hate, but it like grosses me out when people are like, oh, it's like a mini you. And I'm like, ew, no, like, she is completely who she is. Like, she might look like me, but she is is totally her own person. And the same for my two younger ones. Like, I'm there to be like a guide, and they can watch me go through all of the things and hopefully learn. But I mean, as far as me like instilling beliefs into them, other than to be a good, kind, loving human— that's like the only thing that I truly like hope they leave my home with— but other than that, I'm like when it comes to like religion, sexual orientation, career, like hobbies, I don't give two shits what they decide to do. I really don't. Have you ever seen— what is it called? The Family Stone?

Yeah.

Diane Keaton.

Yeah.

Oh my God, that is like one of my favorite movies because her as a mother is just so like, she's so open and she just like says exactly what's on her mind. And she loves her kids so passionately. But she's still like, so who she is. I'm like, she's totally my idol when it comes to being like a mother. I know she's a movie character. But still, it's— I love that. And like, I really truly hope that as a woman, I can embrace all of me. And even kind of going back to what you said, like, I think I've said that before. Before, like, I come with baggage. Even though, like, so I've been trying to kind of unpack my thoughts around that. And I'm like, how could I rewrite that narrative? Like, do I truly think that it's baggage? Like, I don't think that I do. Like, I think that most of the experiences, all of the experiences that I've had, have changed me in a way, and not necessarily good or bad, just like who I am. So I think to kind of go back to like conscious beliefs, subconscious beliefs, writing your narrative, changing the way we talk to ourselves and to other people. I think that when we say we come with a lot of baggage, we're like believing that. So instead of saying that, just like fully show up as who you are with everything that's happened, and you don't have to look at it as baggage. You can just look at it like this was my life experience, and it is like who I am. That's why you— obviously, um, that's why we're connected now is because of all of the things in the past. So yeah, I really like that you talk about— I mean, some of it you can keep and some of it you don't have to keep, like, and you can rewrite whatever you want. So I think— oh my gosh, this entire conversation has been so great. We've talked about so much. I'm like, I feel like there needs to be like episode 2, 3, 4.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Multiple chats, but I'm so glad. Is there anything that you want to leave the listeners with? Moms especially, or maybe not even moms, anybody, any woman who is at a point in her life that she just feels like she needs to break free and change. What is— I know we've talked about journaling and affirmations, and unpacking and all the things. But is there anything else, like any advice or just like words of encouragement or hype or anything that you want to leave?

Oh my gosh, well, with that, I think we need to learn how to be our own hype woman. Like, hype yourself up in the mirror. Like, when you walk by the mirror, like, smile at yourself, high-five yourself, like, give yourself a compliment. Um, I would just leave them with knowing that while we did cover so much, it's also okay to just be still. And whether that is meditation or just taking moments to breathe, we run through life, like, and I say run because I feel like everybody, like, we're always moving so fast and it's okay to just pause and go into transition periods. Like if you were working and now you're gonna go spend time with the kids, take a moment to just breathe, feel gratitude for what happened previously, and then close it up. And then think about how much fun you're gonna have in the next hour of your life or the next 3 hours. Um, I think that's really important. And then like celebrate the shit out of life. Like when you go to bed at night, think about how great your life is. Think about what a great job you're doing. Hype yourself up. Be like, fuck yeah, like today was I had a great day because I'm a great person and I did the best I could. And like, if you did something that you don't typically do in the day, like give yourself kudos for it. If you sat outside, if you took a moment to take a walk, like if you had a great call with a best friend, like think about all that. And that is a form of gratitude. Like live in that and soak it up and know that like it's okay to be super blissfully happy and it's okay to be neutral and it's okay to not be okay. Like it's just all okay. It's just, we're all living our own version of this human experience. And yeah, and no more baggage. Just say like you said, Chris, like, I, I come with experiences. That's what I come with.

Love it.

And still do. Right.

Experiences.

I come with experiences.

Oh my gosh, I love it. I'm so glad that we got to connect.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. Thank you. And thank your listeners. I appreciate this time.

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