What Transformation Can Look Like

I'm Kristjana Hillberg, ex-Mormon and mom of 3, and this is I Fucking Knew, a show where we break down life's unexplainable moments, the times when you know something's off but you can't put a finger on it, or you're drawn to a path that feels right for you despite others' opinions, and when your gut feeling was just too loud to ignore. Each episode features a guest who shares how their intuition showed up for them, everything from vivid dreams that a partner was cheating to meeting someone and instantly know and being called to just do something else. These are the moments that change our lives forever. Ready to strengthen your intuition? Do I really want to change the direction of the podcast? Because essentially what it has always been is humans showing up on the show and talking about deep, real things.

Yeah.

And so whether or not that translates into— maybe not PR, like spreading your story all over the media, but it helps you dig a little bit deeper and unlock those stories that we might not share about all the time. And just kind of how you and I were talking a couple weeks ago about let's really look at like all the pieces of you and not just like share about the book and share about like what's happening, but all of the things so that we can find, I don't know, like those golden nuggets. Yeah, if that makes sense.

Totally, totally. I love that.

I want to talk about this because it can look so many different ways, and you can transform in your business, you can transform personally. There's like so many different ways that you can, like, the the way that it will look. And so I want to talk to you about maybe a transformation that has happened in your life that you didn't even realize was in transformation until you were like, oh shit, like I'm kind of changing everything that I've done before. Like what was, what was a big transformation in your life?

You want me to tell you now?

Yes.

Perfect. Well, it's funny because I joke with my friends and a little bit with my family around that I'm Demetria 2.0. And it was such an unexpected thing. Like, after the fact, I realized that I am a totally different person. And that is so many different— there's so many different components like you were talking about, right? Like, it's not like, oh, I quit my corporate job and now I'm like a different person. It was like, I quit my corporate job. I had no idea the domino effect that would have on my own life. I mean, it's sort of obvious when you think about it, like, my whole life was centered around, you know, my career and my job title. And then to let go of that and that identity, like obviously a bunch of things are going to change in my life, but I didn't really think that through fully. I just was like, I know I want to spend more time with my kids and my husband and like fix, fix my like home life and like fix my soul a little bit because I was just so off-kilter of who I knew I was. And, and even when I, before I left my corporate job, I kept saying like, I need to leave this job because I feel like my like who I am, I'm getting split in two, right? Like I'm this person at work and then I'm this person at home and I don't really like this person I am at work anymore and that person is infiltrating my home life. I was like two people and then the like person I didn't like to be was taking over this like little person that just was dwindling and I was like, I've got to stop this. So I left my corporate job and then pretty quickly all these other things unraveled where I was like, oh, I need to actually figure out who I am. I need to— I went on a like complete soul-searching mission, which I did not have any intentions of doing when I left my job or even when I started. I just like fell into it. And then all of a sudden, I joke, I'm like, well, I got into it and it was like reading this really good book. And I was like, oh, I got to read the next chapter. Like, I got to do the work to figure out that like next layer deeper. Inside of myself. And then all of a sudden, you know, I look back on that, that time period of like a year that I was doing that, and I'm like, I am a completely different person. And the number of like huge transformations that came out of it are pretty significant. Like, I was, I was totally depressed. I had no idea I was so depressed. But looking back at my life, I'm like, for sure. Like, I had no energy, like all the symptoms. I'm like, how did I not realize I was so depressed? I had debilitating anxiety. Like I couldn't leave my house a lot of times. Like I would just freak out and like, you know, couldn't, couldn't get myself there. I mean, oftentimes I would because I have kids and like as a mom, you just, you do stuff that you really can't, you don't think you can do, but you just do. But if it were up to me, if I didn't have kids, like I probably wouldn't have left my house very often. And now I'm just like, a completely different person. Um, I actually just wrote a post earlier today on Instagram where I was like, I had the most amazing weekend. I was present. I was with friends. I was with my family. I was enjoying myself. Like that was not a possibility for me 2 years ago because I would be like full of anxiety and worried about what people were thinking and worried about the project at work and, you know, all these things. And then I just, would miss the obvious thing that was in front of me, which is like having a good time with the people that you love and care about.

Right? Oh, I think that that's so relatable, the being present but not being present because you're thinking about like all of the other shit and whether it is like the work stuff or just like what's next or like, holy shit, I don't really want to be here.

Yeah.

Like I think that That in itself is just so relatable because I think that at some point in our lives we've all been there. It just probably depends on, on the situation because we've all had such different experiences. And I think for me too, it's like finding that balance of being super present and fully involved while I'm working and then completely unplugging when I'm away. And it's like, You have to be intentional about it or else it doesn't work. So I love that that's a part of your story where you could see that you were becoming like you were letting this other person or this other like aspect of yourself almost take over. And so you were able to be like, holy shit, whoa, let's back up and something needs to change. So you said that you started doing soul searching. What did that even look like to you? Because you did you quit your job like right away or did you take some time to be like, what the fuck do I even want to do?

Well, so I fell into like, I definitely have this strong belief and I've said it my whole life, everything happens for a reason. And I believe that really, really strongly, even though I'm not really a practicing religious person. I just have always had this strong feeling that everything happens for a reason. You don't have to understand it, but it does. And all of a sudden I had this opportunity to go meet with a shaman. And it wasn't something that I had like researched a bunch. I had kind of looked into traveling to like Peru or Costa Rica and like meeting with somebody, but it, but it was like a little idea. It wasn't something that I was, you know, actively pursuing or something that was top of mind. And then this opportunity came up to meet with somebody here. Where I live and I thought, yeah, why not? It's something like kind of interesting and cool. Why not go explore this thing? And again, like normally I would research something. I would, you know, just have a lot more foundational information about what I was getting into before I would go do something. I'm not really a risk taker, generally speaking. So for me to just be like, oh, there's this opportunity, like, let me go explore. It was pretty out of character. But I did it and I wasn't really nervous. I mean, there was a little nerves, I think, as there always is when you're doing something new. But I just sort of like showed up and I was like, I don't know why I'm here. I don't know why I feel the way that I do, but I know that I need to meet with this person. And really, I got into it because I had, I'd seen traditional therapists my whole life and I went to them for a variety of reasons. A lot of times it was about anxiety. It was about feeling overwhelmed by, like, the responsibility that I felt like I had, or it would be like relationship things, right? Like, I think those are common reasons to see a therapist. And yeah, totally multiple of them my whole life. And every time I would go to a therapist, they'd be like, hey, do you think that there's like some sexual trauma in your past? And I'd be like, no, no, like, what are you talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about. Finally, though, I was like, yeah, there's something here that I need to address and I don't know what it is, but I know I need to address it. Address it. I know that there was an incident and I had been digging into it and I hadn't really made progress within traditional therapy. So I was like, hey, let's try the shaman thing. Let's just like get after it and see if they can help me. And I was pretty terrified of like remembering what happened to me. Like, that was my biggest concern. And when I talked to them, they were like, don't worry, you aren't going to remember anything that you can't handle. And I was like, okay. And like, that put me at ease. And so then I went into the ceremony and it was life-changing. Like, I knew immediately in the moment when it was happening that it was life-changing because I was able to relieve myself of this, like, heaviness that I had been carrying. And, and like, in my energy body, just like, it was a heaviness and I didn't know where it had come from. And they were able to help me just move that out of my system. And that was the beginning of it. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, if this can help me find like this lightness, this, this ease in my life by not having to carry this heaviness that I didn't realize I was carrying for so long, like, what, what else can they do? Totally. It was seeing, it was seeing the world in a, in a different way and realizing that I had, like, been living my life with, like, these sunglasses on and taking them off for the first time and actually seeing color and, like, beauty in the world in a new way. And I was just like, I was sold.

I was like, I love it. But for people who are listening who are like, what the fuck is a shamanic experience? Because there's so many different ways to experience and have this type of, like, thing happen, right? Like, I'm sure people are thinking maybe like drugs, what the hell's involved? Like, tell me kind of what it looked like for you on your end.

Yeah, for me on my end, it was a, like a shamanic ceremony. So like going in, I didn't know what shamanism was like. I mean, very maybe like peripherally, peripherally, but I went in, it was a ceremony with I would say maybe 10 people there, including the 2 guides and a shaman. And the— there's, there's shamanism. Shamanism is very ceremony-based, so there's a lot of ritual involved. And so I kind of like went into the space, I sat down, I was directed to my spot in the circular seating arrangement. Um, and there was like a lot of Palo Santo, like a lot of smoke and clearing, um, agents, if you will, um, to sort of clear the energy, clear the energy body. There's lots of, um, crystals, there's an altar, there's things like that. And then we did do some plant medicine, which I, um, I can talk about more later, but we did some plant medicine and I didn't, again, really know what I was getting into and hadn't ever done anything at all like this in my life. So I was just like, yeah, I was just gonna ask that. Yeah. It was like very, very different for me. Like, I don't even really drink alcohol, you know, in college, like my friends would always be like, let's go drinking. I'd be like, it doesn't make me feel good. You know, like I'm just not that person that's like, way out there in things. And so it was definitely out of character for me to just be like, yeah, I don't know really what this is, and I'm just trusting a stranger that's handing me something and I'm going to ingest it. Totally. And so that was like my first experience with a plant medicine that they really feel like is sacred and connects you to this divine energy. And while you're sort of in this altered state, this shaman essentially, like, worked on my body. And the first thing that happened when I was in this altered state was the shaman was crying, and I couldn't figure out why she was crying. Like, I was just like, what is— like, she's very passionate. And I was just sitting there, you know, like, in the room, confused. There's no other way to describe it. And it dawned on me in that moment that she was crying for me. Like, I was so tied up, my emotion, like I was so out of touch with my emotions. I was so tied up in my own mess of life that I couldn't even cry for myself. And it was like I was in so much pain. I had been carrying this weight from this sexual assault as a child. And I just like, I did not know how to deal with any of my emotions and to the point that I just couldn't even cry for myself. And this woman cried for me for probably 2 hours. And I, about an hour in, I started to cry with her and we just cried for myself and like what I had been through. And it was so powerful to have another person just tap into the emotion and help you process through things that you can't do for yourself that I was like, I didn't know that was possible. You know, like, I didn't know somebody could feel my emotions for me and help me process in that way. And it was a really, really powerful moment in my life. I mean, life-changing for sure.

So is it kind of like a fortune teller where they're sitting there and like telling you things that have happened? Like, what can people expect if they're like, what? What would even happen? Or is it different for everybody?

It is different for every single person that I've talked to that has been through it. Um, there, and there's shamanic ceremonies that don't involve any plant medicine. So just because you go see a shaman, it does not mean that you're ingesting something. Um, they, I've done multiple ceremonies where they're drumming journeys and you, they're just like sort of hypnotic, meditative journeys, either guided or not, that take you into yourself and help you reconnect with your inner child or emotions or different aspects of yourself that you've really, like, locked up for some reason or another through your life.

Yeah. So I feel like at some point, I mean, we've all kind of locked shit up or thinking about some sort of transformation is extremely scary, especially if you go in not knowing what to expect and what it's going to pull out of you. Because I think that that can be the scariest part, is like, okay, I want transformation, I want something different, but what is that going to look like and how is it going to change me? Because I think that, that— I mean, It almost sounds like you were very like career-focused, very driven, very like, I don't even know how to describe it.

And then you say, yeah, type A. Yeah.

And then you went into this experience. And now what would you say your, your, I'm not, I don't want to say personality, but what would you say? How has your life changed now because of that experience?

I think before I was type A and disconnected. And, and now I'm Type A, but really connected to who I am and honor what I really want out of life. Whereas before I would just be like, I know that I want to do XYZ this year, I'm going to accomplish it. And it would come at the cost of anything really. And now I really think through, I'm still very driven. I still think I'm Type A and organized, But now each decision is much more intentional. I think about if I'm going to go after this thing and spend my time in this way, then what am I giving up? What are the soft things that I'm giving up in order to do that? If I want to coach, you know, become the best coach in the entire world and be Tony Robbins, what do I have to give up to do that? That means that I'm not going to get to spend time with my kids as they're finishing out school. And I'm probably not gonna be super connected to my husband in this moment. Not that Tony Robbins isn't connected to his wife and family. I'm not saying that. I think he's gone through that hard work, right? Like he's already there and can manage his time and balance. But when you're building, you often will give up things that are unintentional. And now I really think about all of the dominoes, all of the pieces, and think through what's most important to me. Before I make a decision or take on a new client.

Okay. And I think so before, was it almost just like you were just going through the motions of like, this is what I'm supposed to have, like I'm supposed to have this career kind of thing, or did you not ever feel that?

I thought that my— the only way to gain self-worth was through my job title, so I didn't know that there was this possibility to just love myself. Sounds cheesy, but to love myself and that I was good enough regardless of what my job title is or if people think I'm the perfect mom or if I throw the perfect dinner party. Like, none of that actually matters because I love myself now and can really take care of myself and know what makes me happy. And that's the priority versus, oh, other people will think that I'm, you know, good enough to be their friend if I have a fancy title, or if I drive this car, they'll want to be my friend, or if I throw the perfect dinner party and then the perfect host, then people might want to be my friend. And now I'm like, yeah, everything's not going to be perfect. And that's okay. And I hope that you like me for me. Not because of the dinner party I throw or the kind of car I drive or the job title that I no longer have. Right. Like, it's like, okay, hopefully you just like me because I'm a fun person and I am really authentic and honest with you.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

I think that that's such a great reminder for all of us. I just got, um, a couple new tattoos a couple of weeks ago and my tattoo artist, I have, I've, I mean, this was like my 9th tattoo. So I've been in the chair several times with several different people. I've had lots of different types of conversations. And she was by far, this was my very first time getting tattooed by a woman. And I loved it. Like not saying that my, my experiences with men were awful or anything. It was just totally different. And she, like, the very first question she asked me was, Like, what do you love to do? What keeps you busy? And I was like, oh, that's the first time that someone hasn't said like, what do you do for work? You know? And then like had some sort of comment that goes with it. Like she was just very like intentional with her words and her questions. And she was, she asked me at another point in the conversation, like, what was the last time that you like were sitting in a, in a moment and you were just thinking, wow, like this is almost like heaven-like. Like, when was the last time that you had that? And it like made me a little bit emotional. I was like, who the fuck asks that? Especially while you're getting a tattoo. Like, I was like, I don't even know you, but I love this conversation because it's way more like in depth and real. And that's the stuff that, that connects us. And so I think even just thinking back to this podcast, like that was the whole point of me starting the show 3, almost 3 years ago is because I'm like, So many times we sit at like surface-level stuff, even people that we've known for years, and we do like, we know maybe what their job is or that they do throw a really kick-ass dinner party, but we don't know like the deep meaningful stuff. And I wanted this podcast to be a place where people could come and share all of the things, whether it was maybe a taboo topic or something that they usually don't share with their friends and family because they're scared of getting judged or they're scared that they might not fit in or whatever it is. And so I love that you're able to share this experience because I think sometimes that can be like scary to talk about, like, oh, I went here and this happened. And people are like, oh God, like, what is that? Or, you know, and then they kind of like form whatever opinions or beliefs around it. And so I love, I love your transformation story. If someone is, is feeling that, is feeling like, I, okay, I am totally connected to this story and I feel like I need something, what, what would be some advice that you would give? Like, do you think that everyone should go and see a shaman? Do you think that it's only for specific people? How can you tell that it's like the time in your life that you could, like, is there other options? Like, let's talk about all that.

Yeah. I think there are a million paths to transformation and there is no right or wrong way to do it. Right. You will find your way and it will be the perfect way for, for you to get to where you're supposed to be. And so, no, I don't think every single person should go to a shaman. I don't think every single person should try plant medicine. I think that it is up to you. If you're drawn to something and it sounds interesting and it feels like it might help you, then explore it and try it out and see how that, how that goes. I know people that have been searching for a shaman and trying to find a way to make some trip to Peru or to Costa Rica work, and it's never worked out for them, right? And I don't know why that is, but it just hasn't worked out. And then they'll find either you know, oh, it's actually the perfect timing now, and I'm glad I didn't do it 2 years ago or 5 years ago or whatever. Or, oh, I actually discovered this whole other way through meditation or through a church group or through, you know, breathing exercises that actually got them to where they needed to be. So I feel like if you are open to transforming your life and digging a little deeper that the method that's right for you is going to fall in your lap. You just have to be open to it. And apparently for me, it was like the shaman dropped in my lap and I was, and I was in it, right? But, um, but it doesn't have to be something that is like so sort of outside the norm. It can be something that's really, really simple. And in all honesty, my journey probably started 6 or 7 years before the shaman, where I realized that I needed to know who I was And I started with reading books, you know, that were pretty mainstream books. Um, one of my favorite books is called Present Over Perfect. And the woman is amazing. Um, she writes like short stories in each chapter about how she can be more present in her life. And a lot of that is learning how to say no, you know, don't say yes to every single request at work. Don't say yes to every, single thing that your friends are asking you to do and really create boundaries in your life. And that's what I needed 8 years ago. That's the story I needed. And that one book got me, you know, over probably a million steps to having the shaman drop in my lap at the right moment for me in my life. So I think if you are interested in transforming your life or interested in some way exploring exploring more, that setting the intention is the first thing. And then being open to sort of maybe things that wouldn't normally interest you or, you know, talking to people about it. It's really hard when you're in that place. It's really hard to be open and honest and vulnerable. But for me, talking to people and just saying like, yeah, I am struggling with this, or I am really interested in learning more about this thing. And then other people would be like, oh, well, I have this friend that went through the same thing, or I read this really great book that helped me. Maybe you could read it. So those are the ways that I would start that are, you know, simple and basic and super effective.

That's really great advice. And you know that I'm a huge believer that everything happens for a reason as well. And I have totally gone away from like the religious side of it, but when I think about just like my life in general and things that have happened, people I've met, things that I've done, it's always been at a time when I was ready for it. Like even with me meeting Kurt, for years before that, if I would have met Kurt, I wouldn't have been ready for him. And probably, I mean, vice versa. And me meeting you, like I called that shit in. Like, I— and I never used to think that I was like a manifester until I was kind of looking at all of the things that had happened in my life. And I was like, oh, I always like— once I put it out in the universe what I wanted, it came to me. Like, whether it was obviously, you know, right then, or whether it was down the road, usually down the road, and in a totally maybe different form than what I had asked for, but it came to me. And I think that meeting you at the time where I was like open and ready and already kind of there and willing to explore what my transformation looks like or can look like, I think that it was such a great like reminder that I am where I am because of all of the work and everything that I have done previous, if that makes sense, to get me here.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, once you start to see the manifesting working in your life, like, because I think so many people are— I think we all can manifest, right? We all have that capability to do it.

Totally.

And I think so often when I talk to people about manifestation, they're like, oh, I'm manifesting and then it doesn't come through. I'm like, actually, it did come through. You just didn't see it come through because you were looking for like a specific thing. Versus like the 47 ways it came into your life that you weren't really expecting. So totally, once you're able to see that you, when you put stuff out into the universe and then, you know, it somehow is delivered to you, I don't know, that is a really big turning point in my own, in my own journey and other people's journey. It's like, oh my gosh, this really works. And then you're, and then you're off to the races because then you can call in whatever you want.

It's your intuition speaking. Just kidding, it's me, Kris. If you've been yearning for more but aren't sure where to start, your life doesn't look like your own, and you're ready to make changes that lead to a reality that feels like you, I encourage you to apply for a 15-minute complimentary Conjuring Call with me where we unearth your true desires and craft next steps that feel completely aligned with you. Click the link in the description of this episode to apply. Can't wait to meet you.

Whatever transformation you want, you can— you realize you can create your life and you have that control, and control in a really beautiful way, not in the like, I need to control every detail so that something doesn't break, but like I want to create this feeling in my life. I want to create this type of environment for my family. Like, we all are capable of doing that. And I think when you start to see that what you're calling in is actually arriving in your life, that's the moment where I was like, oh, I can, I can turn this into whatever I want.

Totally. It's almost like a, it's very like liberating, invigorating. And I don't even know the word for it. It just feels powerful and it feels really good. And like you said, I am totally a believer that anybody can manifest the shit out of whatever they want. And so huge advocate for that. And obviously any type of like visualization that you have. I actually just did this practice the other day where I was thinking about the type of like work environment or work life that I wanted to be living in. And so I just sat and I was like visualizing, and I wasn't even specifically picking out like a scenario or a scene, but more so like the feeling of what I wanted it to feel like. And then it just kind of like took off and it was so amazing. And after I— and it was only like 5 or 7 minutes right before I started work for that day.. But I was like so pumped up and I like got shit done. I was excited. I had a really great day. I was very productive. And you know, whatever I define productive as, I guess. And it felt really good. And I was like, you know what? I, I don't even necessarily know what it's going to look like, but I fucking know what it's going to feel like. And I will get there by just continuing to like put myself in situations where I'm feeling those things. Have you— would you say that you can maybe relate to that? Or do you do that in your life where you just like think of a feeling? Or do you actually think of like a scenario? How do you— what does visualization look like for you?

It is definitely that feeling, 100%. Um, I actually wrote out— I did this amazing exercise. I wrote out what my perfect day would be. And not like your perfect day when you're on vacation, your perfect day, just everyday life. And it is literally a list of like 8 feelings that I have. It's like wake up in the morning and feel grateful for the weather, whatever the weather is, whether it's like beautifully sunny or raining, be grateful for it. The next thing is move my body in a way that makes me feel good. So not you know, ride the Peloton because everyone else has worked out today and I haven't or whatever. It's like, that could be taking a walk, it could be doing some yoga, it could be doing some barre, it could be doing, you know, a ride on the Peloton, whatever it is, right? But it's whatever feels good to me to stay healthy. And so it is all about the feeling of how do I want to feel at the end of the day? I want to feel connected to my friends and family. I want to, you know, have good conversation with my husband. I want to help people and really impact people's lives. And those are the things that are the cornerstone of the life that I'm creating for myself instead of, you know, that job title or the perfect dinner party or whatever. It's like the perfect dinner party is only the perfect dinner party if everyone feels really connected and has a good time. And that includes me. Oh, and that is so, so different than how I defined that in the past.

I love that. And it's totally true. And I think that at the core of who I am and everything that I do, whether it is at my computer for PR, whether I'm teaching a barre class or hosting a party, whatever it is, it totally stems down to the feeling and like how I'm helping people involved feel whatever it is they want to feel. Like there's some times where I'm even teaching a barre class and I like get super emotional because I think about these women showing up and like doing hard work. Barre is fucking hard. I say this all the time. I'm like, ugh, every time I go to class I'm like, God, I fucking hate this. But I love teaching it because it totally is like this mental game that you have to sit and pulse for 5 minutes in like one section. And it's very like it can. It's like a mind over— Jesus, sorry, Fiona is like batting around the fucking Fiona. Good Lord. Let me, let me time you.

You're right. Like the, the, the mind over your physical, right? Like when you're in barre and you're holding those poses and pulsing, it is so challenging, but you do it and you get through it, and then you feel accomplished, right? You feel like, okay, I can take on anything in my day. If I can get through that, Georgia, then I can do anything in my day. Um, it's so, it's so funny because we, I think, you know, like you and I were talking about manifesting and the feelings that come with it. And when I first started talking about this stuff with my husband, my husband's like, Okay, you're sounding like a little woo-woo. You're like a little out there. And I'm like, yeah, but you're totally into sports. So anytime that anybody is like, I'm not really bought into this, like manifesting through feelings, or, you know, you're sounding a little woo-woo. I'm like, okay, let's go back to any interview about from like Michael Jordan to Kobe Bryant to LeBron James. And let's listen to them talk about what the number one thing is that they think is most important to their game. And it will be visualization.

Visualization. Yes.

It will be the feeling of winning, the feeling of the ball going into the hoop and like through the net, right? Like the sound that it makes. It's all of that. And they visualize. And I'm like, they're manifesting that stuff. Like, yeah, you can use whatever word you want to describe it. And they're using it in the way that like they've been taught around sports. But those guys, yes, they put in the hard work. Absolutely. They have to practice. They have to show up. They have to do all of the things. But so do we when we talk about manifesting. Like, you have to vision— excuse me, visualize the desired outcome that you want, that feeling that you want. But then you also have to put in the work to make it a reality in your life. And they go hand in hand. So when you just do one or the other, like, that's where we get caught up. If you're like, oh, I'm going to manifest. I'm just going to, like, be in my head and imagine this stuff. Like, yeah, it could come to fruition for you, but it's going to come a lot faster if you then back that up with some action.

So yeah, well, that's like one of the 12 laws. So people always talk about like the law of attraction, but the law of action totally is there too. So yeah, oh my god, I've heard so many people be like, well, I'm just like, you know, putting it out in the universe and like hopes that— and I'm like, but what are all the things that you're doing like in order to? And I think that this is such a perfect segue into like what we kind of touched on before, is that transformation can sometimes look scary, especially if it's something that you might be judged on or that might be out of the norm or is taboo. And so I think that in order to, in order to see that transformation, you also have to be acting and like doing things to bring that in. So whether that is like studying up on it more, or maybe just starting to practice whatever it is you want to see in your life, starting to like incorporate some practices more frequently or starting to talk about it more. Like, I think that you have to be willing to open up and be vulnerable in order to actually see some sort of transformation, or else, I mean, you can wish on it all fucking day long, but nothing happens.

Yeah, completely. And I think that, you know, when we talk about transformation as being intimidating or scary to people, it's like, it's only going to go as fast as you are comfortable with. So for me, I was on like this rocket ship of a transformation. It was super condensed and it happened really, really quickly. But I was driving that. I was driving how fast it was going. If you're not in a place where you're ready to do that and you're like, hey, I want to take some baby steps, or oh, this is like too much for me, then naturally you're going to pull back a little bit and like go back to where you're more comfortable and then proceed in your own pace that you're ready for. And so it doesn't actually have to be scary. And there's nothing about you that you're going to discover that you are disappointed in. That's the other thing. People are so scared about what they're going to find out about themselves. Um, and ultimately at the end of the day, we all are just such beautiful beings. There is so much more that is lovely about us than the incident or two in our past that makes us think that we're like not worthy or that we, you know, or there's something about us that isn't, you know, totally lovable or beautiful. The reality is, is what you discover when you go through this transformational work is that you are really badass. Like, we are beautiful, we're full of love, full of light, and we're really badass. And it's like Oh, okay. So all of that fear of the transformation or fear of discovering something about yourself is all illusion. Like, it all just eventually falls away. And I think the work of transformation is actually facing those fears and then realizing that they can just dissipate, and then you get access to yourself, which is really beautiful.

That was just so perfectly said and completely gold. Like, I'm just kind of speechless. I'm like, yeah, I don't even know what else to say. But I mean, I think Marianne Williamson— I can't remember the exact quote, but I'm sure you know— she said that we aren't scared of our dark, right? We're more scared of our light. And I think that that's totally true. And I think that— I mean, even I can relate to it as I think about, like, okay, what do I want to become, or who do I want to embody? What parts of me and sides of me? And it is like that. I think that's the part that scares me the most is maybe not what I'm going to like unlock that's scary or like, oh, but stuff that I'm like, oh shit, I, you know, I am not living up to my potential or this is all that I could be, if that makes sense. I think that's, that's maybe a scary part when I think about it. So I wonder I wonder what everybody else finds scary.

Yeah. I mean, it's easy in a weird way. It's easier to sit in your shadow. It's easier to sit in the dark and stay in this place where you're suffering because that's what you know, you know it. And so it's safe. It's a little bit like, you know, um, when you get kidnapped and you're like, oh, I actually like my kidnappers. Right. Like, because then you're safe. You know, what's, what's up. But like, once you are free and you're open to creating anything for yourself, it's like, oh, I have the potential to be anything that I want. And so now I have to actually take responsibility for what I'm becoming versus sitting in that shadow and letting, you know, being a victim and allowing other people to control who you are or how you behave. And like, once that's unlocked for you, It's like I have to take responsibility now for everything I do, including the moments where I'm frustrated. I have to take responsibility. That's me. If I'm having a bad day and snap at my daughter or my husband, that's on me. I can't blame anybody else. I can't be like, oh, I'm really stressed out and I'm tired and exhausted and whatever. It's like, even if I'm tired and exhausted, that's my behavior. And that taking ownership and responsibility, it kind of sucks. It's like, I totally have to be an adult now, you know? Like, I thought I was being an adult before, um, but I was actually just using a lot of things to hide and cover up my own behavior. And now it's so clearly on me when I'm, you know, acting in not the best way. But also, I get to make the choice to act in the way that I want to. Be, you know, show who I really am to the world so much more of the time.

Yeah, I have— I've said that before too, that like once you become conscious of either like conscious of how you've been parenting or just like how you've been showing up or whatever, it's so much harder because you're like, shit, now I know, like I can't go back. But I also think like on the flip side of it too, it's like a whole new learning experience. Like, you're almost like unlocking this side of you that you're like, okay, now let's explore maybe why I was acting like a complete dick, or like why I was, you know, like there— and there's always reasons. And then you can like, you know, figure that out. And it's so great, you guys, because once you feel like you've mastered something, 10 more things are gonna pop up, and then you can learn how to master that shit. So I think that it's always like this ever-growing, ever-evolving piece. And I, I really do, I love getting older because I feel like I just keep getting closer and closer to who I am. I think that there was a part in my life and a time period where, kind of like you when you were sharing your shaman experience, like I was so like locked up. I just didn't cry. I like didn't want to feel anything.

Like, I—

and I intentionally did that. Like, I was so tired of feeling like sad and lonely and worried and all of the bad emotions. But when you turn off the bad, you also turn off the good. And I really do remember feeling that way. Like, I remember listening to people's stories and like not feeling anything. Like, I didn't feel moved, I didn't feel emotion. And I remember my mom being like extremely concerned but also a little bit judgy. Like, she's like, what the What the fuck is going on with you? Like, why are you doing this? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know. I didn't have an answer then because I was, you know, 19, 20, 21. And I didn't know why until later. And I was like, oh, like, I was so, like, sad of being sad. I didn't want to feel it anymore. So I just— I know I relate it to people who have watched Vampire Diaries, but it's totally true. When Stefan and whatever the other hot brother's name is, when they, like, turn off their feeling, and then they can just like ravage all the people. That's totally what it felt like. Like, I just didn't want to feel. I turned it off and like, it was off for several years. And then when you start feeling again, it's super hard, but then it just keeps getting easier. And so I think that as we're talking about transformation, that was kind of one of them, of like a transformation of, okay, you're safe to now feel all of these feelings. And like, You don't have to be happy all the time. Like, you can feel sad and angry. And like, let's learn how to channel those feelings and that energy. And where is it coming from? Instead of just always wanting to show up and be like the perfect version of Kris, which there isn't one, but I was like making it up in my head. And so it was— I think that sometimes we can get stuck in those like repetitive beliefs. So yeah, transformation can be so beautiful, but it doesn't always look like this beautiful rainbow. Like, it can look like anything. Like, it can look like a tornado, and it's still transformation, right?

And sometimes it feels like it, right? Like, it isn't always smooth sailing. And I mean, it's so interesting that you talk about the feelings and, and turning them off and then turning them back on and so much of my experience is this new access to joy and happiness and connection with people. Like, that is such what I was desiring, what I was chasing, and what I found. But you're right, it doesn't mean that I'm not like— I still have moments where I get anxious or sad or depressed or whatever. But the big difference now in my life is that I I am able to recognize those moments and move through them and actually have a process for moving myself through them versus just being stuck and locked up again. Right. Like before, as I was starting to go through this work, I was like, oh my gosh, I was super happy. And then I'd swing back and be depressed and have anxiety again. And I was like, all over the place, back and forth, back and forth. And it was because I would feel the emotion and then get stuck. And I didn't know how to actually just be open to it and let it move through my body. And I think back, like, how many therapists tried to teach this to me over the years?

Right, right.

They were like, feel your emotions. And I was like, I don't want to feel them.

Maybe later.

I don't want to. Yeah. So thank you to all the therapists out there that worked on me for all the years to get me to this point. Where I can feel my emotions. It's really actually a better place, right?

And totally, how powerful is just that question that I know kind of gets made fun of in mainstream media? But like, how do you feel about that? I'm like, oh my God, it truly is like such a powerful question, especially when you like sit back and truly think about how that makes you feel and like all the emotions that come with it. I mean, and it, it really can be such a great question to ask yourself at all times, like throughout the day, when you're talking about relationships, when you're talking about work, when you're talking about anything, like, how is this making me feel? Is it giving me energy? Is it draining my energy? Like, am I feeling anxious? Am I not feeling anxious? And then that can kind of help guide you in like how you choose to live your life, spend your time, who you're around, like all of the things. It can be like a really great question as like your base.

Yeah, yeah. The one that I keep asking my daughter lately is, how do you feel? Okay, is that feeling from what just happened or is it from something else? Because what I found for myself is that a lot of times I'm, you know, feeling whatever emotion, but that emotion is not actually tied to what just happened. It's the trigger for something else that I haven't dealt with, right? Totally. I keep asking her as sort of like this, like, scientific experiment on my poor daughter. I'm like, okay, but is it, is it what happened right now, or is it something else that's bothering you that this reminds you of? And she's usually like, no, Mom, it's this, like, my friend ripped my head off of, like, my toy, and I'm, I'm upset about that. And I'm like, really? Or is it something deeper? She's like, no. I just really like that toy. I'm like, okay, goddamn.

Sometimes it really is just that simple. But I also feel like most of the time, at least for me, it's like something, something that happened way beyond or whatever. It's hilarious. I mean, and you've heard that, those, those experiences too, where you're like, you know, you get in a little disagreement or whatever with your significant other and you're like, oh my god, remember like 6 months ago and you fucking said my middle name wrong. Yeah, that's what I'm pissed about. So anymore, yeah, I try and be like extremely— and that's like a whole nother topic of like communication. But I truly think that talking about all of this, and even like in my transformation, like I was almost scared to talk to Kurt about some of the things that like I was interested in or that I was like Hey, like, I really like— okay, and I have to share this really quick story. But I was working at a law firm. And somebody put in their, like, their resume or whatever to be hired. And like, on it, they like, they listed out all of the things that they were like really into. And they were like gaming, vampires, like all these things. And they like really put vampires and it was like, everybody at the office was laughing. And I was like, to me, I was like, that's really great. And that's also really nice information to know, because now I can talk to this girl about Vampire Diaries. And I can't talk to any of you about it. So I was just thinking about that as far as like, what type of information do I disclose to like certain friends or even Kurt about like, oh, hey, I really do like this. Can we talk about it and not have it be like, uh, you're weird, because I feel like that's a legitimate fear is that people will say you're weird for liking whatever it is. Because I think I even told you about this one experience I had. And of course, it's gonna stick with me forever. But I was 10 years old, and we moved to a new place. And I had this amazing Old Navy shirt on. It was like bright pink. And there was like glitter and like crazy weird stuff going on. And I wore it specifically because I thought that people were going to be like, oh my god, like, she's so cool. I love that shirt. And it actually got like the exact opposite effect. And people were like, that is really weird. Like, we don't dress like that here. And like you talk a lot and you talk really like loud and excited. And I felt so out of place and I totally did feel like the weird girl. And so I think that sometimes when you're interested in something, you can put it on your resume and you like resume as in like even resume of life where you're like talking to a friend about it or your spouse and people are like, oh, like that's interesting. So with all that being said, Do you have any advice for people who have something that they want to talk to either a friend or a family member about that they might feel a little bit like, how do I approach this and say it? How do I, how do I get it across? How do I communicate it? And also not be attached to the feelings of, are they going to judge me? Because ultimately you will probably be judged at some point or at some level. And how can you detach from that judgment?

Yeah, it's, it's such a great question and one that I have been working on myself. I think that once you— when you start transformation, it starts with self-discovery, right? Under— like discovering this new part of you. Then you go into self-acceptance, which is like accepting that that's part of you. Self-love, so now you're like actually embracing it and love that part of you yourself. But then you have to have self-expression and share that with other people. And so a big part of my, my personal journey is actually sharing with people that I channel, that I sort of tap into this spiritual realm. And it's pretty woo-woo for a lot of people, and especially in the community that I live in, it's like pretty out there. And so I've been really contemplating how to balance being authentic with people and helping, you know, helping them get to know me by sharing this you know, information about myself while also not freaking people out. Right. So I'm like, okay, how do I, how do I manage that situation? And what I've come to is I really personally want to be authentic with people. So I want to share the information as it comes up in conversation, or, you know, they ask me, what, what do you do for a living? I kind of weave that in a little bit. What I tend to do is find language that can bridge. So if it is too woo-woo for me to be like, I tap into people's higher selves and I channel your spirit, you know, to you, like, that might be a little much for people. So I'm like, oh, you know, I feel into people's energies and, you know, I help them discover new things about themselves through one-on-one, you know, talk and coaching. Or, you know, like, I just try and like bring it into some language that they can actually consume and not be freaked out by and immediately put up a defense mechanism. So where I'm like, I'm like cautiously always trying to find that spot for somebody. It's like, okay, how can I make this the least woo-woo with still being really authentic with you and honest for some people? And then some people I'm like, hey, you're totally going to get this. I'm going to go full in. Now the cautionary tale is like, you kind of have to read people and hit that right. And I have erred in moments where I'm like, oh, that person is totally going to get it. And then they're like, I don't know if we can be friends. And I'm like, cool, OK, I misjudged that one. And I just have to be OK with that, right? And I'm like, that's OK. And I also have adopted this philosophy that like, OK, so like, You know, if some of the people that I've overshared with, with the wrong language, you know, are talking about that, like, great, because maybe that will hit somebody that needs to get that information through that person. Yeah. I wouldn't have told or wouldn't have interacted with or whatever. And so I just sort of released that into the universe of like, okay, you know, like maybe I wasn't meant to be friends with that particular person. Cool. But maybe they'll talk to somebody else about it, or maybe they'll be more open to it in a year or two when something happens in their life and they really do need support and they'll think back to me. So I let go of, of the reaction in the moment and really just trust that whatever is going to happen is actually happening for their best good, for my best good, for somebody else that I don't even know yet. You know, like there's some domino effect that happens. Um, when I share and I just trust that that's the right thing for everybody, but I also do try and manage the, the language that I use to ensure that it's something that is consumable for people.

I love it. That's such great advice. Letting go of the reaction and the time. I think that that's really great. I love it. Yay. This has been so good.

I love it. I love you. I love you so much. It's so fun.

I also, like, I just have to say this because I keep looking at your background. And to me, I see like a woman with huge boobs and like a really cool like necklace.

Oh, I see it now. Okay. I've never seen that. I love it.

Like, I'm like, whatever is happening is really great. It makes me want to like get a top like that. But anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I know where your mind's at now.

I was like boobs. Love them. Oh my God, hilarious.

It's so funny. I love having this background. I put it up at the beginning of COVID because I was like tired of, you know, this room is— I'm in a pretty plain room in the rest of it. And so I put it up and everybody has a comment on it, which I love. It's such a like piece and everybody has a different interpretation.

Thanks so much for tuning in to I Fucking Knew. To apply for a complimentary Conjuring call, Click the link in this episode's description and share with a friend.