Working From Anywhere in the World

Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your host. Here you'll get to listen to stories from people who divulge real and raw experiences on all different topics. You get 9 lives on your journey here on Earth. Which one are you living?

Hey, hey, hey! Thanks for putting me back in your ears this week. Today I'm talking with a sweet girl who has been living the remote work lifestyle for a while now. I wanted her to share with you how awesome it is. With Kurt being in the military, at some point we are going to get stationed somewhere else other than freezing cold South Dakota, possibly even overseas, and thinking about starting a new job every couple of years in a new place seemed quite honestly a little bit annoying. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a multipotentialite and love trying anything and everything, and even have had 5 jobs at the same time because I wanted to learn a few new fields. I, I literally will dive into anything headfirst, feet first, whatever that whatever that phrase is. So it didn't scare me. It just seemed unnecessary and not on my terms. So I started looking into remote work. This was about a year and a half ago, and my eyes were opened to this other lifestyle that I don't think I can ever go back to working corporate world. I've met some talented kick-ass individuals from all over the world. The aspect of working from wherever, whenever should entice you if it doesn't already. I have friends and even strangers make the comment, I feel like I work, eat, sleep, repeat. I'm exhausted. No freaking thank you. Life is about so much more than going to a job you hate, working with people who don't align with your vibe, and feeding your body fast food because you just worked and commuted 14 hours today and are exhausted. I feel ya. I've been there more years than I want to admit. I let just slip past me because I was— I don't even know. I was driving an hour to work. I was working 9 hours and then driving back. And gosh, even just thinking about it, it sucked. So this episode is just the tip of the iceberg on this subject. I also do a little teaser with a girlfriend from San Fran who I get to interview again in a few weeks, uh, where I'll talk in depth about what it's like to start your own business, work remotely, and how women leading and being the big decision makers is changing society. So sit back, relax, whether it's your lunch break, coffee break, or gym sesh. Can't wait to divulge a little info to get those gears turning about the endless possibilities of how to create a happy life.

How was your vacation? I know that you took some time off and just kind of relaxed. How was it?

Oh my gosh, it was so amazing, and I wish I was still there.

Oh my gosh, I hear you. It's so hard to come back from vacation. It's, it's so hard.

It was so nice. We had like entire like pristine like white sand beaches all to ourselves and just like Everything went so well and I just like am back in the cold now and all I can think about is just like waking up and my only priority being to go to the beach. I'm like, what beach are we going to go to?

I don't know.

Did you bring your book? Yep. Like, that was my life.

That sounds amazing. Where did you guys go again?

We went to the Seychelles.

Okay.

Oh my word, that's so incredible. I know my husband, he gets deployed here soon, which I was telling you about, but we have already been like planning our vacation for when he gets home and I'm like, okay, we need 2 weeks to ourselves on a beach, like in a treehouse. I, I can hardly wait.

Yeah, exactly. You just sort of like need that. And then I recommend just deleting everything off your phone so that you wake up in the morning and there's just nothing even to like to distract you. You just wake up and the sun's shining and you just go to the beach.

Ooh, I love that idea. Yeah, no, I accidentally, which was kind of funny the other night. Somehow, which who knows, maybe it was just the universe, but my phone was on airplane mode and I woke up and I didn't have any notifications and my heart was a little bit like relieved. Like I felt, I was like, oh my gosh, like there's no emails, there's no calls, there was no missed text messages. It was just, it was kind of a relief. So I can only imagine just like getting away from it all for a while and totally recouping.

Yeah, it's so different when you start working in this field because I— last night I stayed up until like 2 o'clock in the morning just doing work because there was nothing to stop me from doing that. So I was just like, oh, just get one more thing done, I'll just get one more thing done. And the next thing you knew, it was like 2 o'clock in the morning and I was like, great, well, that was good.

I know, I've totally been there before. I've gotten up at like 4:30 AM for a meeting and then I would have gone to bed at like 1 AM. So I've totally done that before too. And it's just, at least for my personality, because I feel like naturally I'm just a workhorse and I like to get my stuff done and I like to do it well and usually like right away. And so I found myself not being able to I don't know, like work out my hours and find them, like do the— I don't know, I don't even know how to describe it, but I was literally working like 14-hour days. I was at the computer on and off literally from 5 AM to midnight every day. How do you, how do you work around that?

Yeah, that's a really— that's something I really struggle with literally all the time. I will work all night sometimes. But for me, I've worked out a way to structure it so that I get my day started and I try to get all of my things I know I need to get done, done. And I'll usually start my day a little bit later in the afternoon and kind of just have my mornings to myself, either to like go out and explore the city that I'm in or just have some quiet like me time or work on my own stuff. Because then later in the afternoon, all of my clients start to wake up because they're all US-based and I'm not on that time zone anymore. So then once they all start to wake up and have questions or I need clarification on things. So my days are actually kind of structured so that I almost work a little bit into the night and then I just have to cut myself off at some point and I have to remind myself like, your work is getting— your work is going down in quality because you're now up, you've been up for so long and you're getting tired and you just need to go to bed and call it a day. So I usually just try to cut myself off when I start to kind of notice that either I'm getting restless and I'm not putting in the effort that I should, or when I just— my eyes really start to hurt and things like that. But it's seriously something I struggle with so much, is like when to turn off, right?

No, and I, I wonder if that is just a thing for people who work remotely, but I feel like people who've been doing it for a while just kind of have found, um, found the best way for them. Like, I love listening to Taylor talk about it because it sounds like she is just totally inner rhythm and I need to find that because right now I'm like, oh my gosh, working all over the place randomly. And then I feel like because I'm always thinking about work, I wake up at like 2:00 AM wide awake, ready to work. And so it's just, I, I'm just trying to figure out how to get into, you know, the right schedule, I guess.

Taylor's actually really good at that. When she and I worked together, there was always like, okay, we're working now. And she was always really good at keeping me on schedule and keeping me on like, hey, Justin, stop working. Now. And I'd be like, she'd wake up in the morning and I'd be like, Taylor, while you were asleep, I did this and this for you. And she's like, you've got to stop doing that. You need to stop, right?

Like, thanks, but no thanks.

So it was really nice working with her because she really does structure her days like so well. And when it's time to be done, she's just done. And I'm like, how do you do that?

I know. I think that you just kind of get to a point though where you have to be like that or else your life is just consumed with work. And so I totally get it.

We didn't get into this so that we could just spend all day staring at a computer, you know?

Right.

No, that, that is so true. Like, we didn't start working remotely so that our lives would be even more consumed with work, which is so funny.

Yeah.

So let's talk about how you got started on your remote journey.

Okay. So I was— I've been traveling for almost 4 years now. It'll be like 4 years in a month or two. So that's really exciting. That's amazing.

Amazing.

Yeah. And the first 2 years I was just like on an endless vacation. Like I didn't do any work. I didn't even know that remote work was a thing. I just had savings and I'm telling you like every day was just like an endless vacation and it was amazing. I was just kind of thinking, how am I supposed to go back? Because before this I worked in the hospital and I was like, how am I supposed to go back to 12-hour shifts at the hospital? That's just not gonna work for me. I'm not gonna be able to do it.

Right.

And I remember this is when I met Esther and I had no money and I was like, okay, well, I guess it's time to go home. And my, like, I was going to have to ask my parents to help me book a ticket because I'd like maxed out my credit card trying to figure out a way to stay. And Esther was like, well, why don't you try working online? And I was like, yeah, what do you mean? Like, how do I do that? And she was like, just get an online job. And that's when I started looking into how I could do virtual assisting. So that's really when I got started. Like, I got started because I have a blog and I got started writing and editing blog posts for other people because that was something that I already knew how to do for myself. I just had no idea paying you to do that for them.

Totally. So were you in Bali at the time? Is that where you met Esther?

Yeah. So I was in Bali and I remember we were sitting in the pool and I just got done like volunteering at the place Esther was working and we were all sitting in the pool and I was like, I kind of just confided in them. I was like, hey, well, I don't have anywhere to go after this and I don't have any money. And Esther was like, I'm doing a house sitting job. Do you want to come with me? And I was like, you're going to let me go? Like, I'm a complete stranger. You don't even know me. And she's like, it'll be fine. There's 2 bedrooms. Like, there's 2 bedrooms. You can come hang out at this house sit with me. We just take care of dogs all day. It's going to be great. And so I went and I did this house sit with her. And that was seriously when everything just started to fall into place. Like, I got a job. It was nice because I kind of had her there as a mentor to help me with it all. But that's when it was just like, oh, cool. These people want me to work for them. And this person wants me to work for them. And she let me work for her. It just started becoming like I was able to pay off my credit card and then I was able to book a ticket home and then I, you know, I was able to kind of get my feet back underneath me.

That is incredible.

I love that. That is such an awesome story. When you were working for Esther, did you start having clients like reach out to you or did you decide, hey, I need to start reaching out and kind of making this my own gig?

I was really lucky. So, um, I, when I first started working for Esther, um, that's also when I first started working for Taylor. Um, and so between the two of them, I was really busy, but they also, you know, both of them, they run these massive Facebook groups and they have like huge audiences and they're all like killing it. And started to say like, oh yeah, Justin's doing this stuff for us. Justin's doing this stuff for us to other women who had their Facebook groups. So for a little while I worked for Digital Nomad Girls and I've worked for Female Travel Bloggers and all of these Facebook groups because I almost just like niched myself into being like the Facebook group VA because they all knew each other, so they all could refer me and recommend me. So actually I have been very lucky where I haven't had to, had to do too much client outreach myself because I was in a place of just getting a bunch of referrals.

No.

Yeah, that is, that's seriously incredible. And I know that, I mean, Taylor, even both of them talk about that, how important it is to network. And so that was so cool that you were just kind of like thrown into this huge remote networking world.

Yeah, and now I totally get it. Like, if there's an event or if there's a meetup or something, I'm gonna be there because I know the importance of that, like, face-to-face or even online, just talking with people, letting them know what you do. And they're gonna— there's always somebody who knows someone or who has a job that you could do for them.

What services do you provide for your clients right now?

Right now I am only providing Pinterest management actually for my clients. I've changed gears and I'm just simply doing marketing basically through Pinterest.

That is incredible. And you are like, you didn't go to school for this. So how did you teach yourself how to be this kick-ass marketer?

Well, I've learned that Pinterest actually has like a, has a, I'm like, school basically. It's just like webinars and things like that that they host for people who are interested in learning more about the platform. And you can apply to be a part of this. So I just had watched a few of their, like, um, a few of their, like, introduction videos, and I was like, oh, this is really cool, I totally want to be a part of it. And I reached out and was like, can I, like, become an expert in this? How can I do it as well? And being accepted into that was kind of when I started I'm really learning about how to grow and do all of that on Pinterest. So it was just one of those things that you always need to be looking for the, um, the opportunity, because if there's something you want to do, like I wanted to work on Pinterest, you just have to get, get on Pinterest's website and figure out what are other people doing.

So would you, would you recommend like those, the free courses and free webinars and free online trainings? Do you think that those are beneficial to those trying to learn and start out?

Yeah, I think they really are because they can help you realize like what the opportunities are. Because a lot of times, like, I didn't even know what the options were for someone who wanted to work online. So when you just start attending those like free things, you don't have to pay anything for it. You just show up and you listen and you start to realize that like, wow, someone actually makes like a full-time income from that. I had no idea. I'd love to do that.

No, that's so cool. Have you ever found yourself Or I guess when you were struggling with the whole like, holy shit, I just spent all of my money. I literally like have nothing left. I need to call my parents. Did you want to go back to like the 9 to 5 because it in your mind, you know, this provides stability or did that never even cross your mind?

It crosses my mind all the time, actually. Is that like giving up that like stability? Like I don't want to, but I've thought about it a lot. Like, oh, maybe it would just be really easy if I just went back to the hospital. I knew what I was doing. There was no like learning curve, it was so easy, you know.

Oh yeah, no, I've definitely thought about that too. Sometimes when I'm frustrated or having a day where I'm just like, oh my gosh, like this would just be so much easier if I literally clocked in at 8, clocked out at 5, had a lunch break. But then I have to get back into like my gratitude mode where I'm like, you know what, I am so thankful that I am able to stay home with Stone, that I'm able to drive back and forth across the state to see Lily. Like, the remote lifestyle truly is like an incredible blessing in so many different ways, and I think for so many different types of people.

Yeah, like whether you have kids or whether you want to travel or whether you just want to be able to work for yourself, there's— and that's the thing is it can work for anyone, and you just have to always be reminding yourself of why you got into it. You just have I wanted to do this because I wanted to stay home with kids, or I wanted to do this because I wanted to be doing it from like London, and you're doing it from London. So you just have to remind yourself of that when it gets to be like, I didn't clock out till 2 AM, what am I—

right?

Taking a little break from Justin, and here's a sneak peek of what Rhiannon and I will talk about here in the next few weeks.

Okay, so I have this amazing businesswoman, Rhiannon, with me and we are actually going to release an episode here in the next month. She runs her own business. She is an advocate for remote work. So we wanted to give you a little teaser about what she does and why she thinks remote work is so kick-ass. Hey, Rhiannon.

Hi, Kristjana Hillberg. Thank you so much for having me.

I am so glad that you're here to, to tell, to tell the world how amazing remote work is and to tell us a little bit more about your business.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, remote work and starting remote businesses has been a huge part of my career since 2012 and You know, like you said, something I'm a huge advocate of because I believe that it's, you know, creating a more level playing field, not only when you think about the global workforce and emerging markets, but it particularly benefits women. And, you know, I won't get into that too much since we're going to be talking more on the longer episode next month. But, you know, one of the things that's crazy to me is when you look at, you know, women-led companies that receive VC funding. Um, less than 2% of all VC funding goes to, goes to companies run by women. Um, and we're already seeing remote work and opportunities and the ability for women to start remote businesses, uh, closing that gap, closing that gap. Um, When you think about 17% of all startups today are led by women, there's a huge disparity there, but showing that with less overhead, like, you know, office space or salaries for employees in very expensive cities, women are able to do more with less and are very motivated and are starting these amazing companies and Now 28% of mostly or completely remote companies have women as founders, CEOs, and presidents. So that's huge. And I think moving in a really amazing direction. Yeah.

No, that's unbelievable. So one last thing. What made you want to start this? Like, where did your passion come from? Where did you, where did you start? And where, what would you say has been like the biggest impact or your most— your favorite moment thus far?

Yeah, absolutely. And outside of my passion and advocacy for remote work and opportunities for women, I do run a blockchain and emerging tech agency based here in San Francisco. We have a globally distributed team of 20 engineers, designers, writers, project managers, and other, other team members based all across Asia, Europe, and North America, and well over 50% of our team members are actually women. So, you know, that's been really amazing for me, and we're working with blockchain startups, mostly early stage, to build out their technology and, you know, work on their early stage materials to help them achieve their initial seed investments. So, you know, that's a little bit about what I'm doing on the agency side, and I think the biggest thing for me in terms of what's inspired me and kept me motivated is the women I work with and, you know, being able to put such a great team together that's able to collaborate really well. And I think remote work does breed better collaboration between team members. And that's what we've seen at Seafoam, my blockchain agency. And that's also supported by other data taken from larger companies as well that have remote a remote workforce.

No, that all sounds so, so rad. And I'm so excited to talk a little bit more with you and get into depth about everything that you do, the impact that remote work is going to have on our society and as women, like being powerhouses and rocking it. So I'm so glad that you came on today. To give a little teaser and we will chat again here in the next few weeks.

Absolutely. Thank you, Kristjana. I'm really looking forward to it.

Yes, me too. All right, we'll talk soon.

How would you compare like working for somebody else compared to working for yourself and managing all of your own clients and schedule? Like what are the differences? What are the pros and cons?

I think that it's so easy to procrastinate when you're doing it all for yourself. It's so easy to just like make excuses and be like, oh, it sounded so much more fun today to just go to the mall, so I just went to the mall. And then you just tell your clients like, oh, didn't get done today, don't worry. You don't have that, like, you don't have that someone looking over your shoulder to be like, what did you do today? What, what did you get done? How much work did you put in?

Yeah.

And I don't know about that. That can be so hard for me. Or like some days it just sounds like so much more fun to go like wander around a museum than it does to open my laptop.

Oh my gosh, I can only imagine myself because right now, I mean, I work remotely, but I work from home, you know, so like I have my home base. It's not like I'm traveling, but I can only imagine if I was somewhere else, you know, like in Bali or whatever. Oh my gosh, I feel like I would be working maybe like an hour or two a day and then like in the pool, riding a bike, you know, all the other things.

That's what happens sometimes though. But that's why I think it's so important that you just like make sure you're taking that time for yourself where you're like, okay, in the mornings I'm not going to work because I'm going to go surfing. That's what I had to do when I was living in Bali because I wouldn't want to work, I would want to go to the beach. And so I would just say, okay, so In the mornings, I'm gonna go spend my morning at the beach, or I'm gonna go watch the sunset at the beach, or there's gonna be a time of day when I know that I get to just go to the beach and I don't have to be on my computer and I don't feel guilty about it because I've given myself that time.

No, exactly. And I love that. I love the idea of blocking out specific time to make sure that you're taking care of yourself. And it also seems like Bali is one of those like remote work hubs where there's just a ton of digital nomads there and like community working.

Would you—

is that like, is it like that there?

It is. You can, you meet so many people just through working and there's so many work meetups and coworking spaces. But sometimes it gets hard when I'm not there because I don't have anyone to cowork with. So I'm like, oh, there's nobody to work with today. And it gets— so it's nice because you have that. It's almost like people to like be like, what are you working on today? And then you tell them and then you set goals and you just are a little bit more accountable. But it's also fun because there are people doing the same thing as you. So it's not like when you talk with your family about it and they're like, oh sure, yeah, you're just living in Bali. I haven't even gone to the beach yet. You know, they don't get it. They think you're a crazy person. But when you're actually there with all the people doing the same thing, you can be like, I haven't been to the beach in ages. And then you can all set time together to be like, yeah, neither have I. I'm like, I'm not here for the right reasons. Let's go to the beach today and we'll get back at it tomorrow and stuff like that.

Do you think that you have a clearer mind, like a mind space, when you have just been like, you know what, I am not productive today, I'm just taking the day off? Do you come back and feel completely refreshed?

Yeah, I kind of did that for half of the day yesterday, actually, to be honest with you. I worked really good for half the day, and then I was just sort of like piddling, and I wasn't doing anything. And my friend was like, I'm gonna go to the museum and have lunch, do you want to come? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I do.

Absolutely.

I got home and I felt a little bit guilty because I was like, oh, I didn't finish. And then I realized, like, actually all those things can be done tomorrow morning. And I woke up this morning and I was just like, ready to go. I was like, okay, yeah, it's going to be fine today. We're going to catch up on all of it. And today's actually been a way more productive day than I think yesterday would have been.

That's awesome. I love that. And I, I love hearing that too, because I'm kind of the same way. Sometimes I'll wake up and I will be in like kick-ass mode. I'm gonna get so much done, and I work for, you know, 4 hours straight and I kill it. And then I look at the clock and it's only 10 AM, and I'm like, oh, this is really nice. Now I have the whole day to like get my workout done. I can run errands. I can meet up for coffee with a friend. It really is just like this freedom that you don't have working in the corporate world. How long do you plan to stay where you are currently at? Like, do you have future travel plans already in the making?

Yeah, so my year I basically have planned out through like quarter one. So I am in the UK for another week, um, and then I'm going to Egypt and then going back to Paris for Fashion Week. And then we're going to— I'm going with a friend and we're going to Israel and Iceland and that's as far as we've got planned, but that'll take us out through, um, like the beginning of April.

That sounds so amazing. As far as like travel, because in my brain when I think about traveling, I think about, oh my gosh, it's— it costs so much money. So I have to book my plane ticket, which is like $1,000 to get to Europe, and then I have food and I have lodging. How do you keep everything within budget?

Well, things get a lot easier when you work for yourself because you have to keep in mind that like you, I know your husband is in the Army and everything, and so it might not be as flexible for him, but you, you don't have to fly at specific times. You don't have to fly on specific days. You don't have like set days off. You can kind of like mold that vacation around when tickets are cheap. So if I need to spend an extra week somewhere because a plane ticket's too expensive, then I can spend an extra week somewhere. I don't have anywhere to be. And then I don't have other costs at home, so I don't pay rent, I don't pay any bills at home. So my, my like places I stay, that's my rent. So my cost of living is just travel.

Got it.

So you can say like, okay, I have $1,000 to spend on living arrangements and then you just kind of build your travel plans around that.

So that's why I'm going to— whatever, like I'm going to Egypt because I need to spend a couple of months not even a couple of months, we're only going for a month, but I need to spend a month kind of saving money. So I like pick a country that's like got a really affordable rate to spend that time in and then I go there.

Do you have any advice for people who are wanting this life but have no clue where to start? I mean, other than like joining Esther's group and Taylor's group, what else would you suggest?

I would just— oh, sorry, can't speak. I would just suggest to start looking into it, start thinking like, what are my skills? What am I good at? And then if it's something like super obscure, just start looking into seeing what other people do with that skill. So you can, um, sorry, so sorry, you can just say like you're really good at like bookkeeping and that's something you really enjoy doing. I don't know who that person would be, but I'm sure there's people out there. You can just start looking into like, I love bookkeeping, how can I do that as like a remote thing, or how can I do that for myself? And start looking for those people in your industry because maybe you don't want to be a virtual assistant, or for me, Taylor helps people find remote careers. I don't want a remote career. I don't want a remote job. Like, I want freelance clients where I still work for myself and I don't clock into anyone and I don't report back to anyone except my clients, you know. So that's something when I worked with her that I realized very quickly, I don't actually want a remote job. I want to be a freelancer, and that's very different. So I think you just have to realize that, like, there's all these people there to inspire you, but you need to find the person who's doing what you're doing. If you want to do photography, photography, find the photographer that's making it and see if they have a free class or webinar or a blog you can read. You have to find the people who are doing what you want to do, um, so that you are, you know, you're not just being like, well, a remote career is the only way I can do this, because it's not. You can do it so many ways.

Yeah, I know, that's, that's such great advice. Um, back to you. So being a freelancer, how do you know Do you ever get crazy clients or have you, have you always just taken on everybody who's requested or how do you kind of go through that process when you're picking clients?

For the longest time I just took anyone who wanted to work with me. I was like, you want to work with me? This is such a compliment. And now I am much more particular as, so I do Pinterest management and I've had clients, especially recently, people will just be like, can I have the first month for free to see if we work well together? And I have to be like, you're like, no, no, you can't. But no, like, try to come back with a negotiation. And I just said just right then, we're not going to work together because you are crazy for me and I'm never going to like, we're never going to see eye to eye on things. So you're always going to be cutting corners. You're always going to be trying to cut costs. So now I'm much more particular. If someone is being difficult, per se, I will just be like, never mind. It was so great. If you want to work together in the future, like, please let me know. You can always reach out to me in the future, but at the moment we're going to have to go with no.

When you were first starting out, did you ever do any like trial periods? So like, hey, I really want to, you know, dig my feet a little bit deeper and learn a little bit more. I'll do this for you at half cost because it's going to help me. Like, did you ever do something like that?

Before I had reviews and before I had clients and before it was really consistent for me, I did a lot of that. I never did anything for free, but I would do a lot of things for a discount. Discounted rate where I just say, you know what, I'll give you like half off, um, and then you can see how it goes. But then after the half-off period, like, this is how much it'll cost. And then I'd get— be able to get a review from that or like do some trial and error with the way I'm doing things. So I think that's a really good way to get started. But once you've established yourself, if you're talking to like a really good potential client and they're like, I would like to do the first month for free, and you're like, I've just sent you 13 reviews about how good I'm not giving you the first month for free for you, sorry.

Did you find it hard at all to stick with your prices or has that always been something that's been easy for you? Like, nope, this is the set price.

Oh no, I'm terrible at that. I swear I do the same service for like 9 different clients and each one of them pays me something different.

I can just see myself doing that. Like, okay, this is my set hourly. And then I feel like, yeah, I would be like, oh, Well, okay, I'll help you out and then change it. And then I'd be like, dang it.

Afterwards, each of my clients, I just kind of think of it as each of my clients pays what I know works for their business. And that's, mm-hmm, as long as I'm okay with it, as long as I'm not feeling underpaid, I'm okay with that. So if I know some of my clients are like in the beginning stages of their own business or it's a client I really wanted to work with, I will be like, okay, here's my hourly rate. But I'll— yeah, so, but I never just like, I always give people one price and then there's people who are like, yep, we'll pay that price, that's fine. And then you'll always have people who are like, oh no, I can't pay that price, or that price is a little high for me. And after doing some talks, if I know they're not going to be like crazy and they're not asking me for things for free or anything, I'll be like, okay, well, I have a package rate, but I'll take things out of the package. Like I won't create pins for them if they want to have the lower rate, but I will give them a lower rate. They just have to do some of the work themselves.

Oh, got it. Yeah, I know, that totally makes sense. Have you ever experienced, um, working with a client where you feel like you were underpaid and it felt like a chore working? Like, how did you deal with that?

I have. There's been a couple times when I felt like my clients were just like— they just don't— it doesn't feel like they appreciate you when they're not paying you what you're valued at. And had multiple clients in the past where I just felt like, why am I even doing this work for you? I'm getting nothing out of it. And at the end of the day, I just realized if that's how I feel, I'm not even doing good work for them. Basically just came up with a way that I was like, I don't feel appreciated by this client, so I'm gonna tell them that it costs this much to work with me because I'm raising my prices. And I wasn't upset if they told me no because they weren't appreciating me in the first place. So for a lot of my clients, I raised my prices by a lot and most of them agreed to pay the higher price actually, which was very surprising 'cause I was like, you're like not even paying me enough and now I've raised my price by like tripled it and you're okay to still work with me?

Okay.

Yeah. So now I value you enough to continue doing your work. So I'm just saying, if it's getting to the point where you're actually really frustrated and you feel like you're not appreciated by your client, just raise your prices. And if they say no, then you say, oh, it's been so great working with you. If you get a higher budget in the future, make sure to reach out to me.

No, absolutely. I think that's such a great way to handle that. I've— it sucks being— I mean, even working just at a regular job, it sucks to feel like you're not being compensated what you do. And I feel like I also kind of wonder if it's just certain personalities, because I feel like no matter what job I've ever had I go in like full force, all my passion comes with me, and I like take on this role, and I think about it all the time.

I—

you know what I mean? Like, I just take on everything. I'm just consumed by this role. And so I kind of wonder if it's like a personality thing too, where I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm giving everything, I'm giving my all, and they aren't appreciative. Whereas they must might just view it differently. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I've kind of— I've struggled a little bit with that too, is finding like, okay, bring your passion, bring your creativity. And then like we've talked about before, and then like shut it off, leave it in it, leave it in the workroom and, you know, like have your own life.

Yeah.

And then, you know what I mean?

Yeah, because at the end of the day, it's their business. And so if they're, if they're not in it at the same level you are, then you're just going to exhaust yourself being like, but wait, right?

No, totally. And I felt that before. So I've tried, I'm trying really hard this year to just kind of like work when it's scheduled working, you know, I schedule it around all the other things, work as hard as I can be, you know, passionate and creative in that. But then, like I said, I still wake up sometimes at like 2 AM with like this crazy idea, and I'll want to, you know, text my boss and be like, oh my gosh, I just have this idea, and have this idea. And then I'm like, okay, Chris, just wait until like 8 AM, see how you feel about it, we'll talk about it then. Well, I am so glad that you came on, and I just feel like remote work is the way to go. And I have so many people who have confided in me and just been like, oh my gosh, like my job, it's exhausting. I feel like that's all I do. I literally wake up, I go to work, I come home, I never have time for myself. And so I love being able to talk about the remote work style because I feel like everyone, everyone needs to at least like try it and experience it. And I don't know, get a little bit, a little bit of experience trying that, you know, and feel the freedom of it.

You can always go back to what you're doing before, honestly.

Oh yeah, I, I feel the exact same way. I feel like try something, if it doesn't work, you can always go back no matter what. So I'm all, I'm all about that.

Yeah, that's what I always tell people too. I'm like, what, at the end of the day, you just, you tried it and it wasn't for you and you go back to what you're doing. Cool, you already used to that. No, no, totally.

Well, it sounds like you have an incredible spring lined up, and I am so excited to see your pictures and your posts. And thank you so much for taking the time to chat about your awesome remote lifestyle.

Well, thank you. It's been so nice to chat with you about it as well. It's exciting, and I think it really can be for everyone.

Can you believe only one more episode after today for January? I swear time just disappears. I hope you're all having a great new year so far. All of that fresh start energy and determination, I love it. Thank you again for tuning in.

It means so much to me that you take time to listen.

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Talk soon.