You might need a Doula...🤰🏽

Okay, perfect. So how does this kind of work then?

Welcome to my podcast, The Girl with the Red Door. I'm Kristjana Hillberg, your host. Here you'll get to listen to stories from people who divulge real and raw experiences on all different topics. You get 9 lives on your journey here on Earth. Which one are you living?

I want to introduce you to my lovely guest, Kelsey. Have you ever just met somebody that you immediately just love? I feel like that happens a lot. There's so many amazing people, but Kelsey is just one of those women. I think that she's absolutely incredible. I met her a few years ago and have followed you know, just like followed her on social media and have chatted with her when we've been at different, you know, functions or parties together. And I just, I just really think that she is just this incredible human. And when Kurt and I were going to have Stone, we originally thought that Kurt could possibly be deployed. And so I was thinking, well, maybe having a doula would be a really phenomenal thing for us. So I got to meet with Kelsey and We had coffee together and just went over everything that she, everything that she did, and it really touched my heart. And I wanted to have her on the podcast so that she could share the— just what a, what an amazing service having a doula, or what an amazing service she provides as a doula, and also as somebody who has had children I really, I really feel like this would be such an incredible thing to have as you prepare for this life-changing event. I never really thought about it as life-changing, um, but I can't even tell you how, how life-changing it truly is. And it's, it's kind of an ongoing life change as we all evolve and grow and heal. It's, it's an ever continuous, ever continual process of learning and growing. So I love that she offers that support and love in your own space for you and your partner. So I got to talk with her, chat with her. She shares some tips and some insights, and I am so excited for you to hear a a little bit more about it all.

That sounds good.

How's everything going? How far along are you now?

27 weeks.

Oh my gosh, you're getting there.

I know, moving right along, just growing. Just growing.

I know, you guys have so much stuff going on too. Are you— I saw that you guys are teaching some sort of like workshop or class. Coming up?

Yeah, we're involved with Dakota Rural Action. It's a local— well, it's statewide, but we're involved with our local chapter that organizes around like local foods and small farmers. And so that's kind of just another area of passion, I suppose. And it all kind of ties together essentially, like I think food and, well, whole living, I guess.

Yeah, I agree.

It really ties into my values as a doula as well. But yeah, so we're going to be teaching a class on vermicomposting, these worms, which we've had, I think— I was trying to remember, I think we might be going on like 4 years having worms that just, they just eat all up all our little scraps. And usually I'm the one organizing teachers and classes. And so it's a little different to be the one actually teaching, but just as exciting.

Yeah, that is exciting. So I didn't realize, where do you guys keep these worms? In like a huge—

It's like in a big tub, essentially. It's kind of a tub system. And then, you know, there's holes at the bottom of the tub that kind of, 'cause the liquid will drain, which will feed to our plants. But you just kind of do like a carbon-based medium. And then as the worms eat your produce, they kind of turn the carbon, you know, like, base medium into soil, like a nutrient-rich soil.

That is so awesome.

Like once a year we just take all our worms out and we use the soil into— we usually put them into our houseplants and then we kind of just start all of the process over again.

Yeah, no, that's cool. We were just talking about our garden and starting— we're just going to do a salsa garden this year. And last year our onions just didn't grow.

Kelsey is also one of those people that I could just talk for hours to, just hitting subject after subject. It kind of just like all rolls together and we just keep, you know, bringing up new things. So as you can tell, we got a little off topic for a second talking about gardening, but let's get back to what we originally decided to chat about.

Perfect. Well, yeah, to stay on topic, to stay on this topic, yeah, I wanted you to just kind of start from the beginning of what led you into this doula life and how it's like your journey and how it's changed your life. And now, as, as your journey is becoming, you know, becoming a mother, kind of how it all ties in.

Yeah, I guess, well, like anything in life, it all kind of evolves, and it all has an interesting way of doing that for each one of us. I know I'd kinda almost say that part of my foundation was like started building even like right outta high school, I ended up with some knee issues, a little poor luck and surgeon error and ended up with like 5 knee surgeries within between 18 and 23. And so learning how to navigate healthcare became, You know, that was, that was a big lesson to learn at such a young age. And I had really at that point started to realize that like healthcare and medicine may be where my interests really lie. I started working for a doctor during this time as I was kind of uncovering my own, my own health stuff. And she really combined acupuncture and, you know, a lot of aquatic therapy and even dancing. And she, you know, she was a physical medicine and rehabilitation doctor, so really took like a holistic approach towards health. And so even that started kind of gaining— I started gaining some wisdom on just another view of an approach towards how we take care of ourselves. And from there, I went back to school and kind of pursued a pre-med route, thinking maybe mid-level practitioner was where I wanted to end up. And the first semester back, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so it was a pretty unique journey in the fact that, you know, a lot of, you know, all of a sudden my biochemistry was lining up with, you know, my mom's liver cancer. And it was kind of a hands-on learning it to a certain degree as I was,, you know, taking on formal education. And so patient caregiving, I think, was a big lesson learned through that time. I fell in love with anatomy class and ended up TAing, becoming a teacher's assistant for the course. And, and that's like where I really fell in love with pregnancy. I was like, this is, this is my field. Like, this is what I need to do, work to work within. And then, you know, as I was wrapping up my college degree, my mom had passed away the summer before, or, you know, right before my last semester of school. And so I knew I needed a little break and had a good friend that was going through pregnancy and just the way I was approaching her and relating, talking to her about her pregnancy She was like, "You're a doula?" And that was the first time I had ever heard that word. And started looking into it and I was like seeing some of these similar themes that had become so important to me over these last years. The patient, patient caregiving and healthcare navigation and health literacy and And you just had such a— ears were open, I think, a little bit differently for people going through pregnancy. So you just had this, you know, health was a bigger concern for people and you just had this in. And then, you know, the effect that it has on future generations, it just like all of my passions started kind of combining a little bit. And so my graduation gift to myself was doula school in Seattle, which was really special to have the opportunity to kind of explore a different birthing culture and get to learn within that kind of environment. And, and that would have been, I guess, 3 years ago now that I went to school and have been taking clients for about that long as well, a little over 2 and a half, I suppose. There was a little bit of a break there, but yeah, it's just been a really special journey. I think it's, it's different for everyone, but, and a lot of women come to A lot of women, and I should say there are men doula, you know, there's men doulas as well. But a lot of people find this after navigating their own pregnancy and postpartum experience, coming to find the value in this type of role. And mine was one that started to evolve before that, and I guess has made it all that more interesting now that, you know, we're going through our own pregnancy.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. Did you have to Well, I guess, is it just kind of a constant education, constant educating other people about what a doula is?

Yeah, I think especially in the Midwest, like, even from when I started, I've seen a huge growth and, you know, the awareness of what a doula is. I used to get that question a lot more, like, when I was first starting up, like, what's a doula? What's that? You know, and I still— and we still— I still get that question, but less frequently. I think though, you know, the awareness of— there's just been so much talk of mortality and morbidity within childbirth and postpartum depression, and I think there's just a lot more attention brought to that stage in the last coming years as well. And I know too that, you know, South Dakota is always— we're just a little— we're always a couple years behind the trends. So, so some, you know, something that was already kind of established and has been for a little while within the West West Coast. And, you know, there's even a couple states now that are— have insurance approval for, um, you know, insurance coverage for doulas, which I hope that our state can kind of— Minnesota being one of them, you know, I hope our state can kind of follow in that direction. It would be, um, so beneficial. I think just it's such a transformational point of somebody's life, and just having somebody that can walk with you and provide evidence-based resources and make sure that you're seeing all the options in front of you and just somebody that's kind of helping navigate it with you based on what your values or what you want from the experience that have you in mind. It just, it makes such a difference.

Oh yeah, I would agree. And I think that looking back at both of my pregnancies, I think the first one, I was just so overwhelmed with, oh, wow, I'm finally— like, I'm pregnant. OK, now what do I do? And I just— I didn't seek guidance. I didn't seek help. I didn't really seek resources, really. I just kind of went with the flow. And whatever was offered to me, I just said yes if it was going to be helpful or relieve. I just did not educate myself. So—

No, I was just going to say, and I think that's I think that's so, you know, I think you do what you have to do and you call up and you say, schedule me appointment, you know, right there. And there's a huge choice in who that appointment, you know, the biggest impacts to the outcomes of your birth are gonna be who's in that room, who's your provider and where you're delivering at, you know?

Oh yeah.

So even right there, it's like, there's so many options within that one phone call, 'cause you usually, you know, you just get booked with whoever. And then you kind of go forward thinking that this person is the expert, but really pregnancy and childbirth, I think, can be viewed as a medical event to some degree. And of course there are circumstances where it does become more medicalized, but it is still a natural event. And so to have that within a system of disease and illness management, You know, that's, that's the difference in pregnancy and childbirth, that we're not— that it just changes a little bit.

No, absolutely. And I also think that now that I'm a little bit older and can— and now that I'm just kind of digging in deeper as to like who I am and looking at past experiences, I think that I used to look for outside validation or outside people to be like, yep, this is okay, yep. And with Stone, it was almost the complete opposite. I was like, how do I feel? What is going to make this experience exactly how I want it to be? And so it was just a little bit different to realize that I was the one who could create whatever I wanted it to be, and who was in the room, if we were gonna take drugs, or if we were going to— you know what I mean? Like, it was just like It's my choice. Whereas before, I think I was just like, oh Lord, help me, you know, like anybody, what does everybody else say? Whereas this time I was like, nope, like I'm doing what I want to do.

Yeah. And that's like such an important principle that, I mean, unfortunately isn't, I don't think, the norm, um, that people come to realize that. Like, you sound— I mean, you can hear the empowerment in your voice and saying that and, and owning this experience and what this means to you. And ultimately, it's, you know, it's— this is one of those moments in life that— and there's research that shows it— that, you know, Alzheimer's patients may not be able to remember their names, but they'll remember their birth stories. Like, this is a transformation that you're within, and, and what do you want that to look like for you? And it's going to look different for every person. I think that's what— that's where the doula role really rounds out the labor support team in the fact that it's bringing that, you know, this isn't every baby, this isn't every mother, this isn't every, you know, father or partner. This is their baby, this is her, you know, this is their experience.

Yeah, exactly.

It just brings that individualized care to the procedure of birth, I think. And everybody has a, you know, of course, depending on the circumstances or this, where you're birthing can dictate some of that as well, can have great effect on that.

So when would you say a doula's role begins?

You know, I think as soon as you give her a call or him. But as you know, I always say, like, the sooner you end up hiring a doula, the more, the sooner you have that support on board for whatever questions come up. I think typically I see people kind of starting to, starting to look for options towards the third trimester when they're like, oh, this baby's got to come out somehow, or how is that gonna look for us? And, but having, having somebody that can help along the whole way, maybe point you towards those resources that are more evidence-based instead of maybe more threatening or fear-based. Or because there's a lot of— there's just so much vulnerability along the whole path that ensuring that you're looking at, looking at, um, evidence-based resources. And that, you know, there's, there's only so much time and energy in a day, especially during pregnancy.

The—

so to have somebody that can help you be a little bit more efficient about things, um so that you're just not taking it all on. There's just so many learning lessons, learning curves to pregnancy, to labor, to breastfeeding, to parenting, to— so just to have one person that can kind of go with you through it and help navigate, that already has a know-in on local resources and web-based resources and books and a landscape of the birthing community that you're within, I think just makes— well, it just makes it a different experience. It puts you in a different place. You're already starting somewhere a little different than having to— you don't have to recreate the wheel.

Yeah, no, I love that. And do you ever have clients that ask you for help after the baby comes?

Yeah, there— and there is like, so there's birth doulas and there's postpartum doulas. So we do have some like area postpartum doulas that really focus in on coming into the house and caregiving as well. I will, as a birth doula, follow up with my clients like a couple days after birth and then continue to talk, talk to them by phone call or email, or as they kind of start navigating through that fourth trimester. So if we're seeing the need for maybe more help in the home, because a lot of people do have family that will step in, that, you know, grandmas and grandpas that'll stay over, you know, but everybody's support system looks different. So I think depending on the level of what your needs are dictates kind of kind of who gets involved. But postpartum doulas are a whole nother role that could come in and help with caregiving and maybe some house upkeep and helping care— give help, you know, care give for mom. But yeah, so it kind of just— it, it just depends a little bit.

So have you guys started making your own birth plan, or has that already been like set in stone for a while, or have you seen yourself kind of like, okay, What is it that I want? Has it changed a few times? What would you say?

It's, it's continuing to kind of, you know, I think it's, it's continuing to evolve, of course, because you're kind of, you're taking things on as they come to some degree. I definitely have an idea of kind of the values of what I want out of this experience. So, you know, we've hired a doula and navigating this too with my partner because the education, while Well, I might be starting from a little different point than he has, but I'm still walking alongside. We're taking in the information together and still meeting both our needs as far as what education looks like, 'cause that's another big one that everybody learns differently and independently, but also as couples. So we're taking that journey on together. And in that way, I think it's continuing to evolve. But now being at 27 weeks where we're, you know, here's third trimester. And, um, yeah, we, we have a lot of that already set in place, which is, which is exciting.

Ah, I love that you said that, that everyone learns differently and at different paces. And as your partner and you, you know, are kind of navigating the field together, I think that that's so important to have like just love and patience and Yeah, it really is this major journey that you take together. And yeah, it takes a lot of love and patience and growth. And it's beautiful.

Yeah, there's just like— there's such a— and that's such an important principle to learn that there's no set path here, that it's going to look different for everyone, that there's such a broad range of normal that exists within pregnancy and delivery and postpartum and parenting. And I think that, you know, for no matter what pregnancy number it is or whatever baby number this is looking, it's a transformation for your family. But that can be a pretty big learning curve and pregnancy and through this experience of labor, I think it really kind of has the opportunity to teach that, that like, that we're finding our own way through this. And, you know, ultimately, you know, because that's what parenting is going to look like too, that, that we're setting the stage for that, that kind of empowerment and how to navigate these resources and figure out what's right for you. And to know that that happens. And yeah, that happens in pregnancy, that happens in labor, and that sure as heck happens in parenting land. No, that's totally true.

I just wanted to remind you really fast to head on over to the iTunes podcast app and rate or subscribe, leave a review, show me some love. I love you. It would be awesome. It just helps other people find the podcast, and we want to just be able to get into everybody's headphones.

Have you faced it all with your clients? Have there been partners who have been a little bit intimidated by having a doula? Like, do they feel like that's maybe taking the place of their role? And how do you— how do you describe—

yeah, I think that can be a— I think that can be a big, a big misconception, but also one of the big, bigger barriers to, like, women may— and I've heard that a lot from some clients, like, I'm sold on this role, but I need to convince convince my partner. And, but it's always, it's always the partners too at the end of the experience that are like ready to sell you that much harder. 'Cause they, 'cause you really, I think, and as for as much, for as valuable and as important as this is for walking along with women through this, I think it's just as important for partners to have that kind of support too. 'Cause there's nobody else in that labor room that's thinking I mean, of course they're thinking of that dad, but nurse is in charge of baby stats and mom stats and the doctor's in charge of this mother and dad's along for the ride or, you know, or whatever the partner is along for the ride. And so to have one more person that can like, that knows the dad that already had, or mom, you know, whatever the situation is, but that has that kind of trust established that can help them participate to their comfort level, as much as they want to be involved. And I think ideally be involved because, you know, mom has that stability and trust established with her partner, like, and that we want, you know, we want that in the birth room. So to be locked eyes with partner and, you know, maybe that doula is like behind helping with a hip squeeze or whatever it may be, helping them figure out, you know, that doula brings in that extra wisdom of what to do when in labor based on, you know, where baby is. Like, is baby engaged? Is baby really low? Are we stalled out in labor? You know, bringing that creativity to positions to keep things moving along, I think, is a lot to put on a partner because, you know, there gets to be a certain point in labor that Mom looks at partner and says, I just don't know. Like, I don't know what feels good. And, and partner's like, partner's expected to have that, you know. And of course there's sometimes a nurse, but you need like what to do when. And that's when we can help kind of smooth that out. Like, my job as a doula is to make partners look super good. Mom can look at them at the end of the labor and and be like, you were the most amazing support. And that's what I get to do. And I just, that's such a special part of my role, I think, is getting to work with partners and be able to help bring a little bit more calm to their role and a little bit more confidence.

Oh yeah, no, I absolutely love that. And like I talked about before, what I've even said to you, I mean, a couple other times is from pregnancy to pregnancy to birth to birth and experiences were so different. And I— it's so funny to like, as we talk about it now, Kurt and I, you know, he has this— the experience was different for him, you know, and it was different for me, obviously. And it's just this incredible I can't even describe, describe it. It's just so full of so many different emotions. And I think that a doula would have been super helpful to have. It's just kind of like a— like you've been talking about, somebody who was like, okay, let's try this now, let's try this. Somebody who I knew and trusted. Because at one point I do remember, I mean, And I'm not trying to scare anybody off, but I do remember being like, I am possessed. I feel like my body is possessed and it's just like this pain takes over and it just kind of does. My body just does whatever it needs to do to get through this pain. And I remember this one nurse was just trying to make jokes and trying to position me and everything in my body was telling me, no, I don't want to go there. I don't want to do this. And it would have just been so nice to have another trusted friend confidant there to just be like, okay, I'll take it. I'll take it over. I'll help from here. And it would have just been nice because I think Kurt was like, holy shit, what do I do?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, she's in pain. And he was just trying to be like, okay, babe, you've got this. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but I don't know. Weirdest— it's so weird because I mean, like, I love him, he's my support, he's there to help me, but it was just different because it's not like he knew the pressure points or what to say, or that the fan was too close to me and it was making me cold, you know, just like little tiny things that I'm like, oh, would have been nice for both of us to have just that extra person who we both trusted and had talked about about this experience with, you know, multiple times. We were comfortable and yeah, I think it just adds to the experience.

Yeah, I think there's just, and there's so much vulnerability and there's so much, you know, there's such a wide variety of personalities. You know, you just never know who that nurse might be, you know, whether that might be a more off-putting relationship for one or the two of you. So to have somebody that you already kind of have that foundation built with that can kind of, that can help bring that creativity, I think, you know, let alone sometimes these births get long and you're meeting a number of nurses and it's just kind of all blurring together. So to have a constant face that both of you can look towards, that's like, okay, yep, yep, let's try this now, or let's, let's, just to help, help, you know, kind of, it's like having a little shepherd on an unknown path, you know? Yeah. But I had a dad, they didn't have a doula the first birth, and there was a moment that I think that came up that mom looked at dad and just said like, "Go get the nurse." Like, it was, you know, he had kind of run out of ideas and she needed that extra, and that's kind of where they reached towards the doula in the second birth. And after going through the experience, he was like, "It was amazing to have a doula." He said, "I could participate and comfort my wife in the ways I already knew, and you just adapted to what was needed." unique about birth, because that's the big factor, you know, like, you know what works for the both of you within your partnership, but we just need to make some, like, you know, minor adjustments based on, you know, where this labor is at and what part of the experience, because just as much as a transformation for partner as it is for mom, and ensuring that that is protected and that space is held for both of you, I think just goes so far for the whole family.

Oh yeah, no, I love that to say, you know, I was able to comfort her like I always do and how I know how, but you added that like birth wisdom and you brought so much, so much into the room. So I, I love that. What if, um, someone is interested in a doula, where would they go what would they do? How do they find the person who, who fits for their family?

Yeah, there's, there's a couple. I mean, you could— Google goes a long ways. By even just putting your, your city and your doula followed by it, you'll probably come up with a long list of resources. DoulaMatch.com is a national kind of a searching ground that can be used. South Dakota Doulas is one locally that can be used. But like I said, you could even just go in with doula and your location will go, go a long ways. In Sioux Falls here, we have like— we do a Meet the Doulas event every other month. So a group of area area doulas kind of comes together. And so parents are welcome to kind of meet and interact with, with all these different individuals to kind of feel what's right for them. And then, and then I think the best way to kind of go from there is to take an interview, take more than one interview so you know who exactly, so you feel confident in the choice that you're making, as you know, whether it's just mom or mom and partner making that choice of who's right for the both of them.

Awesome. No, I'm, I'm such an advocate, and even though I haven't had one, I think that it's phenomenal and amazing. And I feel like now that I've been through two births and, you know, maybe eventually another one, that that is something that's like on my, my wish list or need list, is that I would love to have that close connection with somebody who just adds to the experience. And I love it. I'm so glad that you came on and just kind of shared your experience and journey. And I'm so, so excited to hear, like, post-baby, all the things.

Oh, thanks. I so appreciate your time. Um, and I should point out too that in your neck of the woods on the west side of the state, Black Hills Birth Network, um, they— and they have some great events too that, you know, um, talking through your birth stories or sharing— lots of opportunities to get involved in their— the birth community out there as well. We continue to, um, evolve through these experiences as we get older, you know, whether birth was a couple years ago or whenever it was, or just a couple months ago. It's, um, just as valuable. There's so much value in and how that shapes who we are, I guess.

Yes, it's totally, totally true. And just because you've— I mean, you can have 6 different pregnancies and births and have a completely different experience through all of those. And I love that, just evolving and growing and learning always.

Yeah, yeah, always. And always healing. I think that's a big part of it, too, healing through some of this. It's just such a special— it's just such a special role. I feel very fortunate to have found a true vocation.

Yes. And I mean, just knowing you, it's— you can just— I mean, you radiate with love and kindness. And so I just— oh my gosh, like imagining you helping and giving love to all of those mothers and partners is just amazing.

Oh, thank you so much for your words. I appreciate that. Yeah, oxytocin makes the world go round.

So true.