Mankeeping: Are You Doing Too Much For a Low-Effort Man?

Today we are talking about this one term that has hit the interwebs and it is called man keeping. And Gary and I are going to be discussing this idea of whether you're doing too much emotionally for low effort men. Welcome to the Love Strategies podcast where we help successful women attract high value men, date with a strategy and improve their relationships. Now, whether you're single or dating or in a new relationship, we're here to help you dive into the male mind and provide raw insights found nowhere else, backed by science, psychology, and our own personal experiences. Your hosts today are myself, Adam Lodolce, professional dating coach and founder of Love Strategies, and Dr. Gary Lewandowski, a relationship scientist, professor, and our head relationship coach here at Love Strategies. Please share with a friend and enjoy. Gary, I think we got a little bit of a hot take today because we really want to set you up for success in your love life. And Gary, what is man keeping exactly you want to share with us?

So man keeping is this idea that's out there that it's all of the exhausting unpaid labor and gigs that women are doing to manage men's moods, manage their stress, manage their lives, including their social activities. It's all of this kind of crap that you're doing just to keep the men in your life afloat while also at the same exact time, trying to maintain your own mental health. The New York Post portrayed it as the emotional labor that is, quote, sucking the life straight out of women. Oh, bad.

I mean, sucking the life out of straight women. And look, before we go into a little bit of a rant on this idea, I want to say we're on your side, right? We're really on your side. This is what we do. We are a women's empowerment company guiding women to attract long lasting love. So hopefully we have a little bit of cred going into this conversation in that we want to set you up for a long lasting, healthy relationship. And it's ideas like this that exist on the Internet that are planting these seeds, these ideas in your mind that love is not something you should pursue, that it's going to be exhausting, that men are constantly the problem. And I understand there's some nuances and we're going to dive into this in today's podcast. But I'm just going to give you the cliff notes here. And I think that this is actually quite a toxic phrase to, to continue to propagate out there for women when it comes to dating. I don't know about you, Gary. What do you think?

Yeah, it's we're on women's side, but every once in a while we get to defend men. And sometimes those two things are aligned. I think this is one of those times where it's, it's this man keeping thing sounds terrible for women. And the way I just read that definition, it is terrible for women, but it's also terrible for women, but not in the way that you necessarily think. And so what I love about the clients we get to work with is they're smart, they're thoughtful, they like nuance, they like, they don't want. Just like the superficial hot take. And so what I love about today's episode is we're going to get to do that about this idea, because I think everything on the Internet is set up to say, man keeping is bad and you should hate it, and you should hate men for this. And I think that gets it about half right and simultaneously totally wrong. Um, so we're gonna go there. It's gonna be two guys on a rare mission to defend guys a little bit, but in a way that actually makes dating easier and better for women, which is important for you as a listener, if you ever plan on dating men.

You know, I, I, I want to say I don't actually see this as necessarily defending men. I think it's defending healthy relationships. You know, that that's kind of how I look at it is I'm so sick of this. Like, men are the worst, women are the worst, and the two side other. As if there's this battle between the two genders. And if there's anything that we've seen over the years, Gary, I mean, I used to coach men and now I coach women on how to find love. You've done a lot of research in this area over your 20 year research career. And where we've landed is that men and women are much more similar than they are different. Yeah. And I think this creates such an unnecessary divide. I get it. It's clickbait bait. It goes viral, it's going to be in every Facebook group of divorced women who want to just bash on men. I get it. And the same kind of Facebook groups exist for men who want to just bash on women. But where does that get us? Where does that land? Does that, is that helpful?

Yeah, sure.

I can complain about anything all day long on the interwebs and post on Instagram, and I'm sure I could get a bunch of likes. But come on, guys, let's come together. Gary, are we starting the unity movement of men and women? Let's Go. I'm running.

I wish we were in the same room. I wish we were in the same room so we could hug it out. Because I feel like that was a hug it out kind of moment, like we've arrived somewhere, right? And I think, you know, why is man keeping a problem? It's a problem like any idea is a problem in the sense that there's a kernel of truth to this, in the sense that there are some guys out there who, like, for lack of a better word, suck. Like, they're just not fully committed. They're not really in it. And so does that lead women to feel exhausted, annoyed, and taken advantage of? Yeah. Does it make it feel like dealing with men is no longer worth the effort? Absolutely. And here's the thing that we know from talking to our clients for they women don't need more to do, right? It's so much falls on women. And all this emotional labor isn't a fake concept. There's a lot that women are doing emotionally around relationships that women just traditionally are expected to handle that men just get to check out of completely. And so, you know, there's like, all different kinds of official definitions for this, but I think emotional labor, the easiest way to think about it, it's like how you are your partner's personal assistant, right? You manage emotions, feelings, motivations. You're pumping them up all the time. It's like a mini therapist coach. And this is something we've heard directly from our clients. I set a client. It was like two weeks ago. @ this point, she just broke it off with a guy because it wasn't working. There was not any kind of romantic sense of chemistry or connection. And he was a nice enough guy, but it was clear to her that this wasn't a man that met her love vision. And so, you know, as we coached, she nexted him and basically broke it off and said, you know, I enjoyed our time, but I'm just not feeling the connection. Of course, he said, okay, cool, no problem. He handled it very well, but he just wanted to keep in contact with her because she was so great to talk to. Of course, because he had been really relying on her. She was, of course, then kind, caring, and a little flattered. And so she's like, sure. So this guy then proceeded to call her daily to just dump emotionally on her. His day, his problems, his challenges, his need for support and motivation, and artificially, you know, infused sense of confidence coming from her because she had become his emotional support device. And so that's essentially she did Then subsequently, you know, we talked about it and she's like, okay, no, I really have to totally break this off. But it just goes to show, I think, how there are some people out there who really are relying on relationships for this service, so to speak.

And at the root cause of this is that there is undoubtedly a massive epidemic of loneliness from men. And we can acknowledge that. And the data supports that. There's no doubt that men are just completely breaking off from society right now a bit, especially younger men. But even older men, there's a massive, massive loneliness crisis. So when a guy is dating online or offline or starts seeing a woman, it's like, it does become a bit of an emotional dump. It does. I don't know if that came out right. He takes an emotional dump. Excuse my language, but it really is a massive problem. But the reality is there can, there can be a problem, but at the same time, we cannot focus on that to get you the results that you really want. Because if we're constantly focusing on this, it's going to create a negativity bias for you. And there's a well known psychological bias, known as confirmation bias, which means if you're on the lookout for this type of man keeping, you're like, okay, man keeping is a huge problem. Men are completely emotionally inept right now and they're lonely and all they want to do is dump their emotions on me. If you're looking for that everywhere, you're going to have a tendency to over diagnose man keeping. Right? Including some very benign, some very endearing, from some very sweet, vulnerable things. And what I've seen from a lot of our clients over the years, when they finally found an amazing man who is emotionally available and wants to share himself, his vulnerabilities, his weaknesses, as well as his strengths, there's a tendency to look at that and see weakness or see a problem. And obviously it's a problem in the extreme, but in the healthy continuum here and the healthy spectrum, that's what a relationship is all about, right?

I mean, I think I've, I've even seen it with clients where guys are doing all these really high level, what you would want in a long term partner types of things, being vulnerable, opening up, sharing how they feel and, and it even gives some of the clients what they say, oh, there, it's like, it gave me the ick. It gave me this feeling like, oh, I don't, I don't want this. And it's, I think we have to avoid vilifying the benign and not only are some of these behaviors from men benign, they're downright desirable. I also think there's this thing you. You start focusing on the negative, and then you start seeing it everywhere through the confirmation bias. It leads you to get into this mentality of, quote, unquote, all men. All men are this way. All men have these needs. All men need man keeping. All men are needy and incapable of taking care of themselves. And so that mindset is. Okay, first, let's just. Let's call what it is. It's not true. All men are not like some men. Yes, all men. Absolutely not. But let's. Let's call this what it is. It's a problem because it sets you up for something I've called the tyranny of low expectations. If you expect all men to be this terrible way, well, what are you going to do? Like, what choices does that leave you? You have to accept or excuse bad behavior. Because if. If this one guy is going to be a problem, what am I going to do? Trade him in the next guy? It's going to be the same problem. Because all men are this way. And so you end up stuck with just terrible men, male partners for the rest of your life. That sounds horrible. Or the other option is this, like, well, if they're all terrible, I quit. I quit just not doing it. That's also horrible. And so I think this is what we mean by saying this idea of man keeping there is a kernel of truth to it, but it actually falling into this trap of this mindset does have very significant downsides for women looking for partnership. It's a problem.

It is a huge problem. And I will say, gary, I have a terrible habit that my wife knows all too well about me. And that is sometimes in conversation when someone's talking, I'm like, not all there. I don't know if you've ever done this where, if they just start talking to you and I, I just. I can't pay attention. It's like my ADD and I'm. I know I should, but I'm just so bored in the conversation or it's just so downright not resonating with me that I can't listen. And I will say whenever I borrow to a client, whether it's a man or woman, if a man says all women, anything that comes after that, I go. I go blank. I go into my black space because I'm like, I don't care what you're about to say. It's not true. And just with our clients who are now women over the past decade that we work with. And anytime a new client will come in and say all men, I just go into my deep dark place of not listening. And because it just can't categorically be true. And I know that I'm going to have to just reframe that mindset. And sometimes like if I don't go into my deep dark place, I'll just say if all men are like that, then don't do it. What are you doing here? You know, and because I know that they don't actually believe that. Right. If you really believe that all men cheat, then what are you doing here? And they're like, well, it's not all men. Okay, good, good. So, yeah. And, and as part of this strategy, like one thing that we're always doing is trying to give you strategies and mental models that you can use through this process that help you kind of overcome some of these biases that we, we develop because we're pattern recognition seeking animals. Right. We're always trying to just look for patterns and we, I get why we say all men and all women, but one thing that we always do with our clients is we give them strategies to oversee that. And if you want a strategy to really help you kind of some of these biases that you might have when it comes to love, then I recommend just checking out our 7 Little Love Steps training. You can head on over to lovestrategies.com it's on the homepage there. Just walk you through that process. It's going to give you some mental models to be able to really stop over generalizing through this process. Give you some frameworks you can use to be able to meet the right types of guys and get really focused on finding a relationship with a guy who doesn't drain you.

Okay.

Because that does exist.

Yeah. Well, I think a big part of that pattern recognition machine is breaking those patterns. And so I think when it specifically comes to man keeping, the pattern to break here is, let's see why this man keeping idea isn't as bad as you think. And I think it just starts with recognizing the simple fact that yes, low effort men exist. There's always going to be people on a group project who don't pull their weight, who don't do their part, but it's not everybody all the time. And I think this is one of those things that our clients really benefit from every time they come to a mastermind is that, you know, you're in a, you're, there's a group Setting, there's a bunch of people talking about their experiences. People are dating multiple guys, and you'll hear somebody say, well, they're stuck in the pattern. All men, they're just not emotionally available. And so this guy went on a date with blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. But then literally the very next client will have the exact opposite story. It was like, you know, every guy I date just is such an open book. He's just spilling his guts and it's, it's just, why are all guys like this? And then I get very excited in these moments. Like, my face lights up, I get animated. I'm like, everybody, did we just see that two people back to back just said all men are blank and they're two opposite guys? Like, wow. And it's, it's one of those things like, you know, Adam and I can say this 10 times per podcast that all men aren't the same, but there's something about seeing it from others. But then it really sets in when you yourself are talking to three or four different guys and you realize, like, wow, the conversations I have with guy number one are nothing like what's going on with guy number three and so on. And it's just, it just shows you all guys aren't the same. And there are low effort guys out there, and we do want to recognize them, but we also want to be on the lookout. And this becomes, you know, this confirmation bias thing. Let's flip it on its head and turn it around. Let's do confirmation bias in the other way. Let's look for those sincere guys who are looking for long term relationship, who want an equal partner, who want to have an amazing life that they're generously sharing with you so that you and him together can have what we talk about as relationship synergy. We want those equal types of relationships. Those guys exist too. And we have to kind of reprogram ourselves in some ways to recognize those patterns.

Well. And even taking a step further, we have a value here at Love Strategies, which is turn every obstacle into an opportunity. And in this case, perhaps this new challenge of men being lonely and being a little bit more emotional, who knows, maybe it's an opportunity. Right?

Right.

For all of human history just throwing it out there, women have asked for men to be a little bit more emotionally vulnerable and create those deeper connections. Like, think of the opposite approach. Imagine if men were becoming less man keeping ish and becoming more and more cold. Right? That would be way in my, my, my thinking for a healthy relationship, way worse than men Being on the lonelier side, therefore leaning more into their relational counterpart. Now, obviously, there's a toxic level to that where they're just sucking your emotions dry and they're not actually reciprocating. Yes, I agree. But perhaps this is an opportunity to actually build those deeper connections that we've been looking for. I don't know. I feel like I'm gonna get a lot of hate for that.

No, I don't think so. I. I love that. You know what? And I love that about you. Like, you're. Oh, you're very good at finding the positives in things. And so I appreciate that. That is so true. Because I think what is the opposite of a man kept guy? A guy who's like, I don't need you. I don't need you for nothing.

Right?

Stay out of my life. Like, I don't. I don't need this. And I think it comes down to this idea, like, some of this man keeping mindset vilifies extremely desirable behavior. Right? Like we call it. You can call it emotional labor. You could also just as easily call it emotional care if you're not trying to be sensational about it. It's like, oh, do guys require emotional care? Yeah. How is that different than emotional labor? Flash. It's not. It's the exact same thing. And it's. It's just like thinking, oh, I have to do all this for guys all the time. Oh, bother. Both. He's not doing anything for you ever. I think there's no positives that he's bringing to the table. And I think this is the thing. In relationships, there is a give and take. It's. We want to be in a relationship where there's support, there's some sacrifice, like calling it work and labor and all that kind of stuff. I get it. Like, you don't want to be a servant, but at the same time, labels matter. And if you take something that's potentially solid emotional care and you start calling it emotional labor, gosh. I mean, you're just setting yourself up for failure. And I think in just the grandest thing. One last thing on this is that I think thinking about this man keeping thing of, like, this is what I have to do for guys. It just makes relationships transactional in a way that relationships are not meant to be transactional. It's not this where. This is not the 1800s, where it's like, I give you three sheep and, like, you give me that. It's not like that. We don't want it to be like that.

No, no, no. Hey, Garrett, I gotta say, I love woman keeping. I say that. Oh, that'll get me canceled.

There you go.

That's gonna be a.

That's gonna be an audio clip. Yeah. Dear Adam, what do you mean by woman keeping that you like so much? Oh, my God.

No, it's just. That's the thing is, if I say that now, that's creating a divide with women. And I would never want to say that because that's not what healthy relationships are about. So also think of how men might read into this and think, I can't win. You know, this. I can't wait, because now I'm man keeping because I'm opening up more. That's. That's tricky. So segueing. And I gotta shut my big mouth today. Clearly, I'm. I'm. I'm getting myself in trouble. But there is a better way to think about all this, in our opinion. All right? So take it for what it is. And we are certainly good at giving our opinion on things like this. The first thing that I would say is, with this whole man keeping thing is that it's not about having guys do less. It's not about you doing less. At the end of the day, like, I don't want you to have this, like, race to the bottom mentality, where it's like, oh, I don't want to have to man keep him. So he's got to go figure out on his own. The solution isn't to do less, is find the right man who embraces doing his part. So it's finding a guy that, yeah, you might have to quote, unquote, man keep with him, but he is also woman keeping with you. Now that I've just thrown out that terminology.

It's.

It's a dual keybology of connection.

Is this working?

What do you think? I'm just riffing here.

You're not only riffing. I think you're inventing new words left and right.

You add ology to anything, and it works. It can go viral.

But I think this is the thing. If there's man keeping, then there's woman keeping. And it's like, wait, wait. I just say there's none of the above. I think there's just being in a relationship, and what we call it in relationship science is just support. Like, you want support. Do you want support from your guy yet? Should he want and accept support from you? Yeah. What we also know is when we are. When we support somebody else, it actually makes us like them more when we accept Support from somebody, it also makes us like them more. Like support is this really great connective tissue that helps relationships grow and thrive. And so support, it's got to be give and take. It's got to be mutual. It can't be scorekeeping, right? And we know this from research. There's two different general approaches to relationships. There's communal and exchange. And exchange is basically a scorekeeping mentality. I did this for you and I'm doing all this man keeping. So you need to do X, Y and Z for me. And what we know is those relationships don't last. They're not fulfilling, they're not satisfying, there's less commitment. It just, that's not how we are geared in relationships. We're geared to be communal, which is it's, I'm going to give things to you sometimes and then you're going to do a little bit more for me sometimes. And in the grand scheme of everything, it's all going to even out. And I think that the best way to convey this communal orientation. There's a phrase that I've been really fond of saying for the last couple months, which is sometimes you, sometimes me, always us. Which is sometimes I'm going to do more of the heavy lifting because you're at a tough part. Like there's something going on at work or something going on in the family or something. Like you just need more from me right now. Cool, I'm there for it. Sometimes I'm going to need a little bit more, right? Like I can tell you, like every time I'm in a semester and it's midterms and finals, I need more from people around me. I just need more keeping, or I'll just call it support and kindness and caring. Like that's what I need. And so sometimes it's going to be you needing it, sometimes it's going to be me needing it. But the thing is, if we always keep it about us and let that support and the sacrifices be mutual and minor, that's, that's relationships, baby. Like, that's what long term love is all about.

It's true of all relationships, even professional relationships. One thing I love about us, Gary, the way we work together is it's very much so like that. Like we're not score keeping. And it's like sometimes I'm going through chaos and I'm like, dude, I just need help. And you're like, what can I do? What can I do? And sometimes you've got your finals and you got your stuff, I'm like, what can I do? And it's just if. Imagine if we were keeping score on each other, right? Like, good luck. No way.

Like, what a waste of mental energy.

It's so silly. But when you have to be with the right partner and the right person in order for that to work. Because there is, there is a level where sometimes in relationships, it's just a constant investment, investment with like, nothing in return. And it's not about man keeping or woman keep or any of the silly terminology. It just means wrong partner. And yeah, that's where you got to take a hard look. And don't create generalizations about all men or all women. You know, if we have the 1% of guys who are listening to this, I also want to speak to them because like you said, like, sometimes you, sometimes me, always us. I always say one plus one equals three in a relationship. And you both give and you both invest. Maybe in different parts of the relationship. What you get is so much more than the sum of each part. Right? That's what it's all about.

And I think there is one very important caveat to add here at the end, and you just kind of brought it up, which is this all works really well with the right partner. If you're with the wrong partner, if you're with a narcissistic dirtbag who's going to take advantage of you. This is not the right perspective, but I think that's important to hear because if someone is taking advantage of your support and not reciprocating, not doing their part, not, you know, sometimes me, it, right, that's not about you. It's not that you're doing something wrong. It's just they're not the right person for you. And so it's a matter of finding the great relationship partner that you truly deserve and not personalizing in terms of what am I doing wrong and what am I the problem, How? Why? I don't know. It's just like sometimes the guy's not doing his part and will never be willing to do his part. And we want to cut that off as soon as possible so we can find the guy who is going to do his part with us. Because that's going to be a better life.

Absolutely. And Gary, this is a good one. And for those who are listening, who want a little bit of support in their love life on their journey, you're clearly invested, want to make things happen. Just head on over to loveapply.com you can apply for a free love strategy session with someone on our team. Who's going to dive deep into what it is that kind of holding you back in your love life and get you the results you're looking for so you don't have to over invest in the wrong types of guys so you can be in that sometimes you, sometimes me, always us type of relationship. Gary, that was a good one, man. That was fun.

Love it.

Thanks so much.

Thanks man.