Should love always be a sacrifice?

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Yes.

The likelihood that you end up with a partner who wants exactly the same things as you want out of life is impossible. Like, there's always going to be a lack of alignment between two people. Now, can two human beings work it out? So actually, your lives are better together by far than it would be alone. Absolutely. But there's always going to be some level of sacrifice in order to have that love life that you really deserve, I believe. All right, today we're going to be doing something a little bit different, because Gary and I usually agree on 99.9 of topics as they relate to love and dating. That's. I think we were just like two souls connected when we first met many years ago. But recently we started talking about this idea of should love always be a sacrifice? And we kind of started getting to a little bit of a debate. So we're like, you know what? Talk about it on the podcast.

Is that.

Is that a fair setup, Gary?

Yeah, I mean, we're like, you know, peanut butter and jelly, two peas in a pod, peas and carrots. We. We get along with pretty much everything. But this sacrifice thing came up, and I feel like there's some area, like, I'm an agreeable person, you know, in a lot of ways, but I also.

Today, you are not going to be agreeable today, I was gonna say.

But I. The academic side of me loves a good, like, intellectual debate. And so I think when two smart people, like, disagree about something, it's fun to kind of hear both sides of it and then also see how to reconcile both sides at the same time.

Right. So as anyone who's going to debate would do, I, of course, had to Google what is really the definition of sacrifice so that we are speaking the same exact language. By the way.

It'S cheating.

Just. Just the word. The Webster definition of. Of sacrifice. And by the way, this word is just riddled with like, religious stuff. Like, I was just like Jesus Christ when I looked this up. But the definition that I saw, that I think we can both agree upon is an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy. Is that a fair definition of sacrifice in your mind?

I, I agree and I didn't even have to Google it, but I think that.

So I'm gonna go with the idea that love always requires sacrifice. Right?

Yeah. I mean, always, like always.

You always love, always be a sacrifice. Here, here's. I mean, of course it depends again on like, what we're really discussing when it comes to love. But my general take on all of this is that anything in life that we start to pursue requires some level of sacrifice in order to get something. We are almost always giving up something else. And when it comes to love, there are always some. Always, Yes, I will say always. I will go that strong. There's always something that we are going to sacrifice and give up in order to be in a long lasting, committed, loving relationship. Now, is that sacrifice worthwhile? Of course. That's a healthy sacrifice that we want to make. For example, like, one thing that comes to mind for me personally that I would say is a sacrifice, albeit a worthwhile sacrifice, of being in a loving relationship is being single is fun. It's like a fun thing. It's very exciting and you get to go out, meet lots of new people and like, and I enjoy that. I, I, I love flirting. I'm like a flirt. And when you're married, which I am, you don't do that anymore. And that is a sacrifice. Now I consider that to be going from fun to fulfilling. And when you're single, you don't have much of a fulfilling love life. I mean, I think there's, there's some parts of it that's enjoyable and somewhat fulfilling, but like being married to the person you want to be with for the rest of your life, that is much more deep and fulfilling. So that would be my example of, of sacrifice. And I think that there's always a sacrifice to be made when you're in a relationship.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on exactly the level of sacrifice. I suppose that's probably the part where I get hung up on this. Like, does love require, Must it always have a sacrifice? To me, it's. What you're describing isn't sacrifice as much as it's just basic opportunity cost where by doing one thing, you can't do another thing. Right. It's like any time you spend on activity A means you can't spend that same time on all these other activities. And so, you know, do relationships require choices? Does it require us to not pursue other opportunities? Sure. So, you know, are those actually sacrifices in the, in the grand sense? I. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. They are.

Well, it's like I have to sacrifice going kite surfing today because it's windy to do this podcast. Is that a worthwhile. I love you, Gary, but like that is a sacrifice and it's something that is going to serve me long term. It's also served me like short term love having these conversations. But like, would it be super fun, fun to be out in like 30 mile an hour winds kite surfing right now? Yeah, it would. It's just. So that's what I see as sacrifice. Maybe you have a different definition of it. It's giving up something in order to get something. And sometimes you might have to give up something short term in order to get something that is going to fulfill you long term.

Yeah. And so, you know, one of the things I, I talk about in relationship synergy is that sacrifice, really, for it to work in a relationship, it's got to be mutual and minor. And so your example of not going kite surfing, you know, that's super minor. And I would also give up kite surfing for you, obviously, mainly because I don't kite surf. So it's a really for me to.

Give up, I would not enjoy it very much.

And I'm, I'm happy to do that for you for our relationship is what I'm saying. And so sacrifices that are mutual and minor, I don't know, like though that is a sacrifice because you are giving up something for the good of the relationship, but it's just, it's not like these big meaty sacrifices. And that's where I get concerned about love always requires sacrifice. Because I think some people hear that and they, they start slipping into this world of sacrifice where they, they become a martyr almost. And it's something else I talk about in synergy, about this idea of self silencing. And so some people will think about sacrifice in terms of, you know, I need to not be myself. I need to tamp down aspects of who I am. I need to hide things about myself and just really be inauthentic. And that's the kind of sacrifice this relationship requires to make it work. And that's where I start getting way off of the sacrifice bandwagon and say no, like that's like that sounds like a real, like sacrificing yourself. That starts to sound like a real sacrifice. And that's exactly. Your relationship doesn't need that kind of help. And what the research shows specifically about self silencing is that people will silence the self, not be authentic to try to help the relationship. And it actually just backfires. Their partner loses their respect for them. It hurts the relationship satisfaction, it hurts relationship quality. And so that's where I start worrying about this, this romanticized notion of like true love requires sacrifice. It's like, well, not all sacrifices are equal.

Yeah, I hear you. I mean, I think that that definition of sacrifice of like silencing yourself, changing yourself or a partner is not what I see as being. I mean obviously where we're getting at is there's healthy sacrifices and healthy changes that everyone's going to have to make in a relationship, I think. And then there's sacrifices, of course. So you have to stay true to yourself. And what you were saying, like, I, I agree with the idea that you shouldn't have to sacrifice. Here, here's what I would say. You shouldn't have to sacrifice your long term happiness for the needs of your partner. Sometimes do we have to sacrifice short term needs and short term wants for partners? Of course. Like there's going to be moments where you have to create compromise. Let's say your boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever lives across the got a job across the country and that is a, an amazing opportunity. They're going to do it and you're able to move, but you'll be a little away from your family than you'd want. That might be a sacrifice you have to make in the short term in order to create long term happiness that you might decide to make. And that's in my eyes, like that's perfectly acceptable. Like if, if that's a decision you want to make, if not, then you don't make it. It's where you have to change the, the human being that you are. And you know, like, like you were basically saying like fundamentally be a different human being and create a different life than you want to live. Now that's a sacrifice that's not worth living. Are you tired of committing your heart to a man who only just pulls away? Well, if so, we have a very special presentation that's available to our podcast listeners. It's at a special link. It's called he commits.com and it's going to walk you through the five secret strategies that make men commit Head on over to hecommits.com it's only available for a short period of time. I think you're gonna like it a lot. All right, back to the podcast.

Yeah, and I think that's important. I also think it's an. It's really important when it comes to sacrifice, to manage expectations, because I think, you know, even with some of those things, like the moving across the country example, which. Which I think is a really good one because I think that is a very common sacrifice. And I think that is the kind of sacrifice that it's not minor, but you do expect some level of mutuality with that, as you should.

Right.

And so part of the problem that people run into a sacrifice is they. They keep score in a way, and they expect that their own sacrifice is almost going to create an indebtedness from their partner that eventually their partner is going to reciprocate. Now, the problem with that, of course, is your partner may not necessarily recognize or realize the gravity of your sacrifice. And when they repay you, they don't know. Like, they. They're likely not going to repay you in the type or degree that is satisfying to you because you haven't communicated any of this to them. And so you're now, like, putting them up against a standard and forcing them to play roles that they never agreed to. So they're like, well, you moved across the country. You won't even do the dishes for me every night. It's like, wait a. Like, that wasn't the agreement. Like, what are we talking about here? And I think that's where, like, sacrifice creates a lot of problems.

Well, I, I think that that's kind of a different issue in my eyes. Like, that's tit for tat playing score keeping in a relationship. And that is definitely not a healthy thing to do. Like, sometimes you do have to make sacrifices, but when you make the sacrifice, it has to be wholeheartedly and without expectation of return.

Does that happen, though? Does that happen?

No. I mean, no, it doesn't. But I think that that's a healthy way to do it. It's like.

If.

If you have a friend, like, I believe there's like a maybe analogy works or not. Like, if you have a friend who needs money, like, there's one thing to do, one thing you might do, like, they need a thousand dollars because they're in a bind. If they're like, hey, can I borrow a thousand dollars? I'm of the mind. Like, I'll either give them the money or I won't loan, or they don't get any. Like, I don't loan money to friends because I don't think that creates a healthy dynamic. And I think the same thing applies to relationships. It's like if you're going to do it, it's not alone, it's just you're doing it. And, and then your partner, if you're with the right partner, will by nature want to reciprocate at some point and understand that there is some relationship capital involved. But keeping score is just gonna destroy the relationship. Just doesn't work for sure.

And I, I like that idea that, you know, it's like you should just give things freely without expectations. It's a no strings attached, right? And that's, that's really the relationship ideal. It's what we call a communal relationship where, you know, exchange relationships are tit for tat. It's like I give you this, you give me that. It's like we have to keep things even all the time and the best relationships don't operate that way. And if you want to see a really good example of like a communal, like just giving for the sake of giving, look at parent child relationships. That's the classic communal relationship. And like romantic relationships should be a little bit like that, except bi directional. Right? It's like when it's parent child, it's pretty much parent communally giving to the child 50 years in the future. It works out and need me, please. Yeah, but it's like with your partner it should just be like, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna give, give, give, give, and you're eventually gonna give, give, give too. And it all, it all catches up in the end, which I think is ideal. I mean, I still think though, like, as much as we should give without expectation, that's hard because I think people always just kind of expect, Should have give and take like that. I, I think. But even then there's going to be some people listening to this. It's like, you know, this kind of. I would do anything for love, right? Like, I would, I have no problem sacrificing. I will give because that's what love is about and that's what makes relationships work. To which I would say, hold that thought because research on sacrifice actually doesn't show that it's as helpful as people think.

What type of sacrifice are we talking? You can't just put on the, the nerd glasses and say research supports my point. Give me the research, let's talk about it.

All right?

I'm not letting you get away with that with me. All right. Not if we're doing.

It's not the self sacrifice stuff. It's just like everyday sacrifice. Like I'm gonna, you know, not go to Thai food for dinner because even though I want to. Because you don't want. It's like this mundane everyday sacrifice. It's like asking people like, how much do you sacrifice for your partner? Not in any sort of like specific, because the sacrifice itself doesn't actually matter. But what they find with this sacrificing pattern is that it does help relationship commitment. Right? So the more you sacrifice in your relationship, the more committed you are to your partner, the stronger bond that you have.

That makes sense.

Which is good, right? I mean, that's good that that's longevity and we generally want longevity in our relationships. The problem is it didn't make people feel any happier and it didn't make people feel any closer. So they're sacrificing, they're feeling a stronger bond, but they're not necessarily happier or closer. And so you start having this quality versus quantity issue in terms of like, I feel more bonded, but I'm not necessarily happier about it. And so one of the things that they found in this research was that sacrifices helped, particularly on days when people weren't very stressed and didn't have a lot of hassles. The problem is, I don't know about you, I don't have, I don't have any of those days. You have like how many days you have, you're hassle free and no stress and everything's great and let's. Like, like, like that just doesn't.

Pretty good month so far. I don't know, it's been pretty good. Talk to me last month and different.

Sure, but it's tough, right? So if you're having other things going on in your life and stresses and strains and just drama of work, I mean, who knows? But it's like then you actually have time to perhaps notice the sacrifice and acknowledge it and reciprocate it. The issue is it just doesn't happen very much. And that's actually a lot of what's going on is that this same research also finds that people miss about 50% of the sacrifices their partner makes. So for every 10 things you do for your wife, she only picks up on five of them.

You know, who sees all reporting on that though? How are they reporting on that though? How can you report on your partner? Misses it? How do they know how to. How it's self reported, I'm assuming. So how do they know that their partner missed it, maybe the partner didn't acknowledge it.

So they would ask, in this, this kind of research, you would ask both partners, you would say, like, hey, partner, a, how many sacrifices did you make? You know, what did you sacrifice during these three days? And I don't remember exactly. It was probably a daily diary study where they check in with them every single day.

Got it.

And then they ask the partner the same questions, like, how many sacrifices did your partner make for you in this same time frame? And so you see all 10 sacrifices you make, and your partner sees five of them. Now, the problem here is this creates a potential for, like, a recipe of resentment where it's like, you're doing all this stuff for them and they're only seeing half of it.

It.

So your generosity and all your sacrifice is going unacknowledged. And so this isn't necessarily the partner's fault. Right? Because your partner. A lot of the sacrifices we make in relationships is just holding back our thoughts, holding back our preferences, holding back our behaviors in a lot of ways. And there's just no way our partner is going to see all those things that we didn't say or didn't do or didn't decide. And so, you know, sometimes people hear this and like, oh, well, your partner needs to be more on top of things. It's like, I mean, ideally, sure, but it. It's tough, but it's just. It's just yet another reason why sacrifice, it's part of relationships, but it can't be a driving force because it's just never going to get seen the way that the person making the sacrifices hopes it gets seen.

All right, here's why I disagree with all this. First off, social science in general, I think we can agree, like, there's a replication crisis with a lot of these studies. How you frame the question can really alter the outcome of these. So I'm going to debunk a little bit of. I'm going to lower the temperature on that being like, a final case just because I have. I have to, because I don't have any research to back up my side. So. But my thought on that, though is, like, there's nothing like just debunking research just because, hey, it suits me right now.

But I think that is the time people do it.

That is exactly. I think the issue with all of that is, like, when you're asking people about sacrifice, the people who put a lot of weight on making sacrifices are the type of people who would be keeping score. So, like, if I'm making a sacrifice for my wife. I'm not even thinking about that necessarily as a sacrifice. I'm thinking of that as like, oh, this is going to make her happy. Okay, she wants to go to the movies tonight and I want to go kite surfing. I'm going to go to the movies because that makes her happy. It's like in a, in a reported, in a report. I might not even consider that necessarily a sacrifice. It depends because of my, my disposition, who I am. But I can imagine a lot of people who really do keep score of that. It's all about me, me, me, me in relationships are like, I'm sacrificing all of the time. I'm not getting any acknowledgment. No one sees me, me, me. And I only know that. And you can, I'm sure, can also appreciate this, like working with a lot of clients. Like, we see this not only with the men, but with women in general. So I don't, I don't know if I buy that so much.

So here's, here's the problem with what you're doing.

Let's hear it.

Bring it. So people always disagree with the research when it doesn't fit what they think. Fine. Okay, sure. The other piece is you're generalizing from yourself and you're a good natured, selfless guy who's not a jerk in his relationship. That's not necessarily how most people are most of the time in most of their relationships. And so you're kind of generalizing from your single case of it sounds like you are sacrificing for all the right reasons. And that's great if everyone did it exactly that way. The problem is we also, dare I say, know from research that people don't always sacrifice for all the right reasons. A lot of times they do it out of obligation. They do it to avoid guilt. They do it because they don't feel worthy of their part partner. And so they're sacrificing to kind of gain affection. And they're, they're sacrificing to try to get things and they're trying to sacrifice to make their partner like them more. And it's a very needy based sacrifice or obligatory sacrifice.

But let me just chime in right here, coming back to the original question. Should love always be a sacrifice? Those things you just said, regardless of the intent, the reason why you're doing it, such as affection, neediness, or it's just you're doing it to be a good partner, love is always a sacrifice. At some point, I mean, they're just going to be things you have to sacrifice in your life.

Yes.

The likelihood that you end up with a partner who wants exactly the same things as you want out of life is impossible. Like, there's always going to be a lack of alignment between two people. Now, can two human beings work it out? So actually your lives are better together by far than it would be alone. Absolutely. But there's always going to be some level of sacrifice in order to have that love life that you really deserve, I believe.

Yeah. On a technical basis, is there always going to be sacrifice? Absolutely. Right. Because again, it's. You're making a choice, and by making one choice, you're sacrificing other choices. I think it is important to acknowledge, though, that since this is going to be part of a relationship, again, it's almost, as you say, inevitable. That it's a part of relationships that it's really, really important that people are doing it for the right reasons, with the right expectations so that they can make it productive for their relationship. Right. And I think. I think that's important. The other thing I would say.

Oh, sorry, go ahead. Okay.

Just kind of one more thing. It's like I do kind of, you know, begrudgingly admit that every relationship is going to require some form of sacrifice. It depends very much on the form and all the. And the reasons why and all that kind of stuff. I also think in an ideal world, it's not as important that you make sacrifices. What's more important is your willingness to sacrifice. And so you should have a partner who wants you to not make sacrifices, ideally. And you reciprocate by not wanting your partner to make sacrifices. Like, you want to have a partner who's willing to do X, Y and Z all the time for you, and you're like, no, no, no, you don't have to do that for. And like, that's the kind of relationship where it's like, your partner's willing to do it and you're like, you. No, no, you don't have to do that for me because I'll do, like. And you just kind of negotiate and work it out and compromise that way.

Right. I. I agree. I mean, I think on that note, I agree with 100% on that. I think in some ways this question is flawed because sacrifice is kind of a spectrum. It's the degree to which you are making sacrifices, not like it's a binary. It's not like, like, of course, like, obviously there's always going to be some Level of sacrifice. It's just the degree to which you are making sacrifices, I think is the first point. And the second point is what you just made, which I think we both agree with. Well, of course you agree with, but I agree with it as well, is that it has to be balanced and that you have to desire that your partner's not creating this massive imbalance where she's sacrificing everything. Her job, you know, my case, like her job, her life, her desires, her free time, things she wants to do with her life, who she wants to spend time with. Like ideally she's making as few sacrifices as possible in order for me to get my needs met and vice versa. And if that's the case, then, you know, you're, you're in a pretty good place and by nature the relationship will be balanced so well.

And this is exactly why I started off by saying like, this is the academics. I mean like, I love these kinds of discussions because I think early on in this podcast it's really easy for someone listening to this to be like, sacrifice. Yeah, you have to. Or sacrifice, absolutely not. Your partner would never ask you to do such a thing. And it's really, it's easy and over simplistic to see the world in, like you said, a binary, like sacrifice good, sacrifice bad. And that's how most people look at most things in the world and especially relationships, because it just makes it easier to understand. But like we just spent the last 22 plus minutes kind of going back and forth and like it all comes down to what you just said, which is like, it's a continuum. Like there's a, there's a matter of degree. Some sacrifices are really good if done the right way. And some sacrifices are really bad, detrimental to the relationship, particularly if they're done in the wrong way for the wrong reasons. And it's like that's the nuance. Like that's, that's what, that's what happens when you start thinking strategically about relationships is like you actually start seeing more shades of gray, which is only going to help you in the future with your future relationships.

Yeah, and the problem with shades of gray and nuance in anything, especially in media, is that people don't like it. It's much easier to be like, no, relationships should never have sacrifice. If I created like a 30 second TikTok and be like, you should never sacrifice in relationships. You are perfect, you live the life you deserve. Click here. Whatever, blah, blah, blah. Okay, that'll like go viral if I'm like, well, it's a continuum. And it depends on the situation, it depends on the environment. And you have a 23 minute conversation, people are like, boring. I want the yes or no, you know, So I think that's just, that's the world we live in now, Gary. That's it.

I will say it depends on who your audience is. And I think what. Right. Like our, what we've seen from doing this podcast now for the last couple months is like, our audience, they're high value, they're smart, college educated. Like, they are so good and they care so much about the nuance of things. Like, this is hopefully this is exactly what they want. I would love to, you know, hear more in the comments and things, but it's like, not everybody wants things simplified because when you simplify things, you're inevitably wrong. Like, this actually makes you more accurate about love and relationships. And I mean, isn't that actually what people want? Don't people want to be more accurate about things? Like, I, I always, I say all the time, better data, better decisions. Right. And like, that's the nature of better data.

Well, Gary, next debate podcast, let's try and make this a thing. I want to debate, do people always settle in relationships?

Yeah. Or like, does positive relationship outcomes requiring require settling?

Yeah, I don't know if we're going to agree or disagree on that one, though. We'll have to talk about that next time. So why don't you, like, follow. We got more of this coming up. Gary, that was really fun and you're the man I enjoy. All right, so now we're at the end of the podcast, and hopefully you got a lot of really great information from this podcast. But as we know, information can only take you so far. It's time to take some action. So what I recommend you do now is head on over to loveapply.com it's going to walk you through a series of questions, and then you'll be able to book what we call a complimentary love strategy session. Yes, you've heard it. Someone on my team is going to get on a phone call with you, be able to understand your situation, what it is that you're struggling with in your love life, and create that strategy to help you attract that man, that relationship you truly deserve. So take that action. Go make it happen. We cannot wait to speak with you, Love apply dot com. And yeah, let's help you create that love life you truly deserve. All right, speak soon. Bye. Bye.