Tears, Trust, and Triumph: Tracy's Path from Divorce to Deep Love

All right, everybody, welcome to the Love Strategies podcast. So glad you decided to spend a little bit of your day here with us. This is your host, Dr. Gary Lewandowski, Chief love scientist at Love Strategies. We're doing something a little special today. We've done it once before, maybe twice before. One other guest. We started doing client stories a few months ago, did it with the Year of Deb. And then we followed it up with Date Like Deb. And those episodes, let me tell you, have been wildly, wildly popular. These interviews are a chance to do something that we do in our program. We hold these masterminds, and it's a chance for us to bring a little bit of that mastermind experience directly to you. In the podcast, those masterminds get a chance to learn a little bit about the person behind the story, weave in some lessons, and really just help plot out the future. And so my guest today is Tracy. Hi, Tracy.

Hi, Gary.

How you doing?

I'm great. How are you doing today?

Good. I'm doing great. It's so good to see you in this context. I love. I was telling. Telling you before we started your background. I have severe background envy. It looks amazing. So official. I love it. And so Tracy has been kind enough to join us today. She's a client I've had the pleasure of knowing for her entire Love Strategies journey. And it's not just any journey. It's an amazingly successful journey, and we're going to get to all that. The other thing that I really love and appreciate about Tracy is she is one of the most generous and giving members of our community. So one of the things we have in our community is we have a website where people ask questions and other members get to help and give advice and weigh in. And Tracy not only is one of the most generous givers in the community of advice. I read all those comments, and it's solid. It is some of the best advice. I'm like, darn, that was good.

Thank you.

And I'm not surprised. And I just. I just learned she was a writing minor, and so it's not surprising that she does such a good job with that. And so it just. It just really goes to show what a great community we have. And Tracy, I don't know if you've noticed this, but because of the precedent you have set in our community by being so generous, other people are following suit. And it has.

I do notice that. Which I love.

That's so cool to see. I love it. And I think, you know, it's. It's that Kind of mentorship that is not only helpful to everybody else, but it's something we talk to clients about, too, is something we call the protege effect, where helping others in their journey helps you in your own. And so there's so much that I know Tracy has experienced in her journey, and just a couple of things that we are definitely going to hit on today. We're going to talk about dealing with doubts and becoming more securely attached to. We're going to hit on some trust, vulnerability, and commitment issues, and then a little bit about how relationship and love can help with other areas of our life, other relationships. So how's that sound, Tracy? You ready to get started?

It sounds great. I'm ready to dive in.

Awesome. So we're going to start on a weirdly specific date. You told me that this date, June 11, 2023. Can you tell us what happened on that day?

That was a Sunday, and I had set up a consultation with Christina, and I cried on the phone to a stranger, pretty much.

Were they happy tears? Not happy tears.

They were not happy tears.

Aw.

I was lost in trying to get through dating and relationship and needed some guidance. So after seeing one of the videos, I decided to book a consultation.

A. Yeah. Christina's one of our love strategists. She's fantastic. And so you cried on June 11? I don't have the exact date, but it was later that year on a Mastermind with me. I think it was late fall. Maybe it was early winter. And you cried on a Mastermind with me, too. I did remember that.

I do.

Do you remember why?

Because I was ready to give up and didn't think I was cut out for it.

Yeah, I. I remember that. So clearly it was, you know, and. And you're not the only one that has ever cried on a Mastermind. I. I think someone. I mean, this week, I think in the two I've done this week, I think we've had tears on both. It's. It's part of the experience in. In many ways, but I remember it because it was one of those times when someone's crying on a mashma and it's the. I can't do it. I can't do this. I'm never going to find my person. It's not. And it was like, it's not going to work out for me. And so do you want to give them a little preview? You want to. Want to give a little preview?

Sure.

So has it worked out?

It has worked out.

And how close what I think is. Really? Yeah. Right. And How. Here's the thing I think is really kind of remarkable at that point. Like that mastermind where you were crying, saying, I couldn't do it, you'd probably agree is one of your lowest moments in the whole entire process. But then what happened? A couple weeks. Weeks. Mere weeks after that, I. I met.

The love of my life. And somebody who sees me, hears me, and would move mountains for me.

Oh, I love it. Can we say his name?

His first name? We can. Um. So should I just go by his short name or what we all call him?

Yeah, just go by. Yeah, do. Just his short name.

Joe.

And then what. What have we all taken to calling him?

We call him my above average Joe.

Above average Joe. I love it. Joe. I love him. All right, so we give you a little preview where this is going. Let's. Let's kind of like go back to the beginning of what preceded your call, and let's go, like, all the way back to me. Like, growing up, what was your upbringing like?

My upbringing was a little interesting where dysfunction was normal for me. I was a parentified daughter around six years old, actually. I helped take care of my little brother, who I love, and he still calls me one of his moms. He does. My mom was very codependent in the relationships that she had, so I really didn't know anything different.

Okay. And so I imagine having that experience didn't leave a lot of time for yourself.

It didn't. I. I was always trying to just make sure everybody was very happy. And actually, my mom called me her peacemaker.

Oh, sweet. Definitely some of those people. Pleasing types of tendencies.

Correct.

And how did that translate into your romantic relationships through your teenage years and beyond?

I focused on school a lot, so when I was in school, I did have one boyfriend. It was volatile all the time, always targeting. Um, but later on, I met somebody and he proposed to me.

Okay.

Um. And I said yes. We got married.

How long of an engagement? Like, what. What year is a. Is this? Like, in your 20s?

So it was late 20s. And actually, and I do tell some ladies this now sometimes, I had met him, and actually we moved in together. We only knew each other six weeks. Weeks?

So quick.

It was very quick. Our engagement was about a year and a half later, and then we got married about nine months after that. And I actually questioned whether or not he'd have to. He'd show up on our wedding day.

Really? On your actual wedding day? It was one of those. Is he gonna be here?

Yes. Because it was so. Our relationship was so unstable. And I just never knew what man would get each day. Okay, if that makes sense.

Sure. So was this one of those situations where it was almost an impulse where let's get married to kind of solidify and settle things down?

I loved him, and I think it was my security. We kind of had, at that point, already had a house together. And I think he knew that, actually. His mom used to tell him, if you can't make it work with her, you can't make it work with anybody. And I held onto that for some reason. Oh, interesting. It really is. And, you know, in retrospect, I think about it, I really should have been paying attention to myself, not him.

Right, right. Like, Right. It's one of those things that probably seems pretty obvious now, but back then, wouldn't have been obvious at all.

No, not at all. I just thought, okay, he's gonna stay because I'm the best thing he's ever had, which I really was.

He just wasn't smart enough to realize it.

Right. He just didn't know what he had in front of him.

Well, and I'd imagine, too, some of those people. Pleasing tendencies from your youth also kind of encourage you to tolerate maybe a little bit more than you should have looked the other way.

Yes, a lot. A lot. He was not faithful, and I had heard bits and pieces, and he defended himself a few times, but never admitted anything. You know, when you're lying to your counselor in couples therapy and you're, you know, your husband is lying and you're backing up those lies, and you should know it's a problem. But I just didn't have it in me back then because it was all about trying to keep, you know, at that point, two kids in, trying to keep the family together.

Right. And, you know, it. It's such a tough thing because in those situations, I know there's this compulsion for outsiders to hear things like this and just think, like, why didn't you leave? Like, why not? But it's really just. It's not that easy.

It's not.

It's. There's so many things that are keeping you tethered to that relationship in that person. Kids, house. You know, in. In psychological research, we call these things investments. And they have such a powerful effect over commitment and longevity, even when you can have satisfaction be very, very low. And I'd imagine in those moments, you weren't super happy and satisfied, but at the same time, because of these investments, these things that you've put into the relationship that you can't get back or Easily extract. It keeps you in situations longer than you should.

Absolutely. Much longer.

And so was there a final straw? Was there, like, how did that end?

Well, it's funny you should say that. A few times I actually looked into getting an apartment and trying to figure out how to make it on my own. And it was just so overwhelming because I was my children's sole caregiver. So I just didn't know where to start. And ironically, on my 49th birthday, instead of a happy birthday, I got an undone text.

Oh, my God. Yeah, these guys, this is the thing is, like, these guys sometimes just have this sense of timing that just is. I don't know. I almost said pure evil, but I don't know, it's just. It's just terrible. It's just terrible timing.

It was terrible timing. And I can look back now and I actually feel bad for that person in a way because I. When I. When I did say thanks for ruining my birthday, the comment was, oh, it's always about you. And so, you know, it was a rough few weeks. He. Three months, he moved into the spare bedroom. That night, three months later, while I was at work, he moved out some of his belongings. I didn't know he would be leaving then. At that point I thought maybe we could still make it work. Crazy me. But I will tell you, after another three months, I was done. I knew I had to make some changes.

Yeah, you know, this is going to be. This is going to sound weird to say, but it's kind of apropos that it happened on your birthday because it really. He gave you a gift.

I absolutely believe it was the best gift anybody's ever given me.

Yeah. Because I think in those situations, particularly with a people pleasing kind of past and tendency, it was going to. You might have ended it in time, but you weren't going to end it that soon. And so he ended up saving you a bunch of time by ripping the band aid sooner.

He. He did. He did. Yeah, he did.

So then what was the aftermath like?

Um, it was a very long, drawn out separation and divorce. Um, we did it. Though I will say in the middle, my daughter had a medical crisis, so I did have to, you know, manage that. But I did it. I got through. And I guess about. I'm trying to think maybe a year and a half after we were separated, weren't divorced yet. I decided I was ready to start dating.

Okay, good. Good for you.

So, yep, I got on dating apps. It was disaster after disaster. Disaster.

It can be tough. You know, it's like 18 months is a good time frame. And it can be tricky with divorce, separation. The divorce isn't through yet and. But I think that 18 months is a solid amount of time. And so, you know, I think it's, it's the right time frame. It's maybe, you know, it's disaster after disaster makes it. You may not get as ready as you thought.

That's exactly it. I didn't give up. I took breaks. I did a lot of self work as much as I could, a lot of reading. But the, but that June 11, once I was divorced, so it was another, I don't know, maybe a year, nine months, ten months, and my divorce is final. It was a little bit better. I started getting a little bit better quality. But after, you know, being led on a few times, I decided that I needed more and hence the phone call.

And so how long in total were you together with this guy?

Together would have been 22 years.

Okay. Yeah. I was thinking it had to be decades. Right. And it's, I think it's one of those things that it's easy to see now, looking back, as it almost always is. It's a lot clearer that way. But once you've been in a dysfunctional relationship for 22 years, it's really hard to get out of it and immediately be ready for a functional, healthy relationship. You don't know it for. You don't know how to recognize it when you find it. And if you somehow find it, you don't know how to keep it because you have a bunch of these patterns that you've built up over literally decades that make it really, really hard.

Absolutely, absolutely. Including, you know, anxious attachment and all that stuff.

Yeah. And I bet, you know, at that time you were probably going out a little bit alone, a little bit in the dark maybe. Did you have like friends giving you helpful tips and advice?

Yes. And I will tell you that those friends would just have fun. Have fun. Yeah, yeah. You know, not really pointing me in the direction of, you know, relationship quality, you know, more so get your needs met type of thing. Which, you know, that's really wasn't the ship I was ready to get on.

Interesting. I love. That's a stereotypical guy move. Right. It's like, you know, the guy's move is like, you want to help your buddy get over a relationship, you just say like, just get with somebody else. That's, that's how you fix things.

Right.

I think, you know, it's. Our friends and family are always so well intentioned with their Advice in these life situations, well intentioned, but not terribly well informed all the time, is you don't have the skills and the global knowledge base, I guess, to really help in a meaningful way.

That's true. I had one friend. I had one friend. We were out. Oh, my goodness. And she said, oh, that guy's really cute over there. She went up and she's like, see my friend over there? She's going through a really, she's going through a really bad divorce.

Oh. I'm like, oh, you.

Thanks.

Oh, my gosh. I feel like that's like, you know, and there's so much about relationships and mating that goes back to, like, evolutionary psych. Right. It's like, you know, how did we evolve? I just feel like that move right there is like an antelope on the savannah going up to a line and be like, you see her over there? She's wounded, can't run fast. Go after her.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that guy left just.

Like, what a, what a, what an interesting strategy. Interesting move on your friend's part. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It didn't help me that night.

Oh, my gosh. I love that. That's just, that is hilarious. So, all right, let's kind of hit like a little reset. How is it going right now?

It is so fabulous. I have the fullest, most loving, amazing life and so many areas that I mean to wake up extremely happy every single day is, it's pretty awesome.

And you and above average Joe, how long have we been together?

We have been together 19 months now. 19 months. 19 months.

And so you had shared earlier that with your ex husband, you moved in very fast.

Yes.

Same pattern with Joe.

Oh, gosh, no. Right? Gosh, no. It has been paced and slow and thoughtful. So much communication.

How's that working out?

It's, it's great. It's so good. I, I, I'm blown away.

Very different approach, right? It's a little bit very different.

And I'm not gonna lie, I felt kind of weird, uncomfortable sometimes because I really didn't know if it was normal.

Right.

But now I'm, I'm very accustomed to this feeling and know this is how life should be led, lived. Yeah.

And it's, it's, I think what's interesting about what we share and how we teach dating at Love Strategies is it's different than how everyone has dated in the past and in many ways have been taught or encouraged to date. A lot of people are encouraged to date almost. Not exactly like the wounded antelope. Version of your friend, but more of a, like, go with the fuzz. Like go with the feelings and the bubbles and like all the tingly feeling and like the sparks and the romance and like go, go, go fast f. Like you don't want to lose that feeling and it's, you're going to lose that feeling, right? Like that feeling is going to dissipate and you're going to get yourself entangled in a relationship that becomes hard to get out of. When all those tingly feelings go away and they just, they naturally do. Because we're humans and we habituate to everything, you're going to be left with emptiness. And I think, you know what we really try to encourage and you're such a great guest to have on this because you have followed what we suggest very closely. You take it slow when issues inevitably arise. You discuss them and you keep small problems small and you just keep allowing the emotional closeness to build so that you start feeling more and more comfortable. And like you just said, if you haven't had that kind of relationship in the past, when it first starts happening, it's like, ooh, what's this? It's a little, a little different. It's a little unsettling almost. And so it just helps to have some other folks around to kind of keep reminding you, like, no, no, this is it. This is what, this is like, this is long term love. It's very different than the chaotic love, that teenage kind of young love. It's just a very different experience because we want a very different outcome, I think. And so that, that, that's the goal. And so I know along in this journey I see you share a lot of words of wisdom with, with other folks in our community. So I'm hoping you can share some, some words of wisdom, some things that you've learned with all of our listeners here today. You up for that?

I am.

Okay, so I, I know one of the things that I've seen you talk about and you mentioned already today is that you've become more secure. So how, how have you dealt with doubts and such along the way?

A lot of self reflection and even now I still notice sometimes if I'm, I'm feeling something, you know, something happens, something outside, you know, happens and I internalize it. And I think, okay, why am I getting upset about this? Because I can't control it. So I've really learned to control my emotions and how I react to my environment as opposed to letting it control my emotions. And it's been very life changing doing that, and now when something hits different, it's like, oh, where did that come from? And you can immediately, I'm able to really just say, oh, that doesn't seem. Seem right. Let me, let me go back it up and see where was that coming from within me? And there's no anxiousness.

Good. So you would consider yourself a recovered anxious person.

Absolutely. You know, and, you know, anxious tendencies at times, you know, trying to try to make a ferry when we're running late, that, but we need it, things like that. But I, I can honestly say that I am more secure now than not.

Yeah, I, I'll give him my stamp of approval because I've been here for the entire journey, I feel. And I remember you in the early days and it's a very different experience now. And I think, you know, when you're walking around full of anxiety, anxious attachment. Right. And so we've talked about this in other podcasts, so I'm not going to kind of go back through it all, but if you're interested in anxious attachment and things. Adam and I have talked about this on some other episodes, but you're in a constant state of doubt and you're chasing, and it's all this yearning and it's, does he like me and is he into me? And it's, it's leading you that anxiety to ask a lot of the wrong questions. It encourages a lot of the wrong behaviors. And so, you know, just simple things like a guy not texting for 12 hours. Right. Like formerly, you know, anxious. It's like, what's happened? What's going on? And it's like, I. Now I know from, you know, some of the things that you, you've talked about on just recent mastermind sessions that you don't like. That stuff doesn't even bother. Like that doesn't even phase you anymore.

No, it doesn't.

And so along the way, I know one of the things I suggest and it's. It's okay if you haven't taken this suggestion, but one of the things I always suggest to folks is in those moments, asking yourself, what would a secure person do?

I do that.

Okay, good.

I do that.

Is that helpful?

Helpful. It has been extremely helpful for that. What would a secure person do? And also always assume good intentions, I think, is one of the things that I pulled out of it. And attraction. Right. Even on your worst days sometimes. But if you ask yourself, what would a secure person do? Well, a secure person wouldn't be, you know, chasing and, and, and, you know, and I have to say that with Joe, like, I, I didn't chase in any way, shape or form. Um, he pursued, he pursued consistently and appropriately, I have to say.

And that's what happens. And I think that's the thing is, like, if you're a little insecure, you think, gosh, if I don't do all this, all this reminding, texting, and he's going to forget about me and he's going to go the other way. And it actually drives people away when you act like that.

It does.

Versus the kind of sit back you're not chasing. It shows that you're a little more composed and increases your perceived quality in many ways. It's like, oh, she's not going to chase me. She must have other options. She must have other things going on in her life. And there's something about that perception from guys, ooh, she's got other things going on. It tells him subconsciously somewhere in the back of his brain, like, I better step up my game, like, I better get on this, because if I don't, I'm gonna miss my chance.

Sure.

That that's what we want. Right?

And it, I have to say, Gary, it gets more comfortable, like when you're first doing that and, you know, trying to beat down that anxious feeling, but trying to be secure. The more you do it, you, you live it. I think one of the things you terms you've used sometimes is fake it till you make it right. And honestly, it, it really does work. You, you're, you're training your brain, I guess, to really become that person.

And really, like so much of dating differently is about retraining your brain to let go of previous patterns and start forging new ones. And it's possible to do that entirely on your own, but it's a lot easier when you have folks around you to support you and kind of help remind you about the path, right? Because you're going to have doubts along the way. It's not going to be an instantaneous flip of a switch where all of a sudden there's going to be rainbows and you. And it's like just amazing all at once. It just doesn't happen like that. It's. It's a little bit of a struggle. There's going to be setbacks. And having a support system, or in the case of our program, many support systems in place to catch you when you fall or help you when you slip up. It's so incredibly helpful. I think one of the things that you said in there about attachment, I think is really important is recovered, anxious, secure. And you said, but I still have my moment. And so what does that mean?

That means sometimes I might react in a way that the old Tracy would react. And honestly, it feels yucky.

What a great word or a great.

Descriptor because it really, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right. So that's what's great about this is because you, you've changed from the inside so much that you can identify that something's just not hitting right with that situation. So you can redirect yourself. So you might have the. I might have those moments but I'm able to pull myself out of it pretty quickly and then rehash what happened with, you know, one of my love strategy sisters or you on a mastermind. And I think that is we all still need a little bit of redirection sometimes and that somebody to go to to make sure I guess to hold us accountable too.

Sure. Yeah. And I think I, I can say for myself the entire reason or the definitive reason why I ended up joining Love Strategies and being part of this program is Adam's belief that we should not only help people get into relationships, but help people keep those relationships going strong. Because it's not that the world, as soon as you find your guy that all of a sudden everything locks in, everything's perfect. The rest is smooth sailing. It's, we're human, we're going to have slip ups. There's going to be those impulses and on occasion we're going to say the wrong thing and need to do a little repair. We're going to have to, you know, learn some of those communication skills and calibrate our expectations for when our partner does some of those things. Because that's going to happen too.

It's true. It's true.

It's just, it's constant. Like you know, when, when things are going on in your life, you know, you're hungry, tired, stressed, anything having to do with moving or home repair, there's going to be stuff said that it's going to be tough.

Right.

Some of those moments for sure. Yep.

True. Well, Joe knows that I need to eat before 8 o' clock at night.

You understand? And that's very important. You already know when to feed the, you know, that's Tony makes sense. So let's, let's pivot a little bit away from attachment and such a, it's always such a big topic with clients. Like how do you think about trust and vulnerability and commitment now? How has that changed?

It's changed because I know now that it really does exist. I know now that I really can trust not only myself because I think a lot of what got me to where I was was not being able to trust my own decisions. So how could I possibly trust anybody else if I didn't trust myself? But you know, trust, commitment, relationship, and it kind of all goes blends together in my mind, I think. But one thing, well, one of the many things that you taught me is our current partner can't pay for past partners mistakes. And you know, and that helps me immensely to remember that because the person in front of me today is completely different than that person that was in front of me. And I have trust in that. I have trust that, you know, the man that I am with now is. He would absolutely do anything for me as me him. And we trust each other even to the conversations, you know, if we have to talk about a. You know, like I mentioned the other night on A Mastermind, I had a little moment and I was able to speak to him about it without any fear. I was able to trust that he would listen and we would be able to just move on from it.

Right? Yeah. I think, you know, it's such an important point that trust is built over time. And your current partner, it's not fair to make them pay for the sins of your previous partner. It's also not fair to ask a partner to fix you. And you certainly weren't doing that. But there's a version of you that without some of the growth that you've described here today. And I just, I love what you said about how you couldn't even trust yourself and you did things the right way and exactly how we suggest, which is that you took the time to build that piece up first. That's why things were able to work, continue to work so well with Joe. Because if, if you weren't able to have that trust in yourself first, even an amazing guy, it. It probably wouldn't have worked. Like the doubts would have gotten the. The best of you.

Yes, I, I wholeheartedly believe that. And I think the biggest thing is when we go through these things and, and I don't think it's a test of trust or it's just, it's that old me sometimes I always make sure that I tell him how grateful I am and I thank him for recognizing that I had a moment. And that's. That's huge. That's huge.

Such a great reminder. I love like gratitude, right? Like just saying thank you to our partner and in moments when they don't expect it. It's not like right after they help you bring in the groceries. Thank you. Of course you thank them then. But it's the quiet moment you're sitting around saying, hey. He's like, what? Thank you. Thank you for being you. It's like you. It's like that is the, the stuff of long term love that keeps those bonds strong. Right. It's like that is the thing. I know this, this just kind of. This is a little bit of a tangent and this made me think of something you shared. How do you feel about marriage? Is there okay, fussy talk about this?

It is, it is. Yes.

You had a little bit of an evolution about this and there's something you just said that made me think about it. And I got the same feeling now, just kind of thinking. It's like I got like the little tingles on my arm because it's like so adorable.

Okay. So I believe, even after a very not so great marriage, I do believe in marriage. I would like to get married someday. But I've recently had the revelation that the commitment in the relationship is more important than an actual marriage certificate.

Right, right. And I think that's big because of course, marriage still possible. Still on the, like. It's not that you don't want that, but I think it reveals to me it's like one of the mistakes that people make, there's. There's two kind of big ones about words in relationship that people make. And I think it's when people say I love you or how long that does or doesn't take. I think people put way too much stock into that. I also think people put way too much stock into like, are we going to get married? Versus people worry about weddings when they should be worrying about commitment. And you said something I think was in a mastermind. It might have been on a community comment and I can't remember in which venue it was, but it was like I realized I didn't need a marriage as much as I just needed someone to share my Sunday coffee with.

Yes.

And I was like, I just did it again. Like, I don't like that just gives me like the warm fuzzy tinglies like that. Because that is it like whether you have a ring, whether you had a ceremony. Yes, you want those things. But it's actually like, do I want to spend hundreds of Sundays drinking coffee next to this person? It's like that. That's what it's about.

Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree. Wholeheartedly.

There's One of the things that you said in there, that I made a little note to myself because I just. I want to highlight it because I love it when I hear this. You referred to a version of yourself as the old Tracy. Yes, I love that because that means we are not a finished product. And I say this all the time on Masterminds, and it's. We are very empowering, growth oriented, all this stuff, and we're not done. We're not finished. And so I know people have come very far in this journey when they start talking about their previous self as a different version than who they are now. And it's. You're right, you're right.

It's huge.

You're different now.

I. I feel it. Even. Even my kids feel it.

Awesome. Well, okay, great. Perfect segue. Because I did want to ask you, because I know we've had some conversations. The Masterminds are far ranging in terms of what we talk about on these things. Um, it's romantic relationships, parental relationships, family relationships, even. I was giving job interview suggestions the other night. Um, how have you found what you've learned about romantic relationships has applied to other relationships in your life?

Um, it's definitely shown me how to communicate effectively intentionally. Um, and it's really. Actually the skills I've learned through strategies and through the program has helped me really build a wonderful relationship with specifically my daughter. My son, too, but he's kind of out on his own. But my daughter, you know, she's with me living in the house. She actually said to me the other day, mom, um, I just want to tell you I love you so much and I see how much you've grown and I. So lucky. And I tell my friends how lucky I am to have you.

Oh, that's like. Oh, that. Like, I'm a little bit of a crier. Like, that kind of stuff. Like, that is. How sweet. How old is she?

She's. She's. She just turned 20. She just turned 20.

That's gold. That's such gold.

You know, and I think it's. I saw her question how the new me responds to certain things, and she didn't trust it at first. And I stayed in my, you know, I stayed in my conviction and who I was going to be until she believed it. And now it's. It's just so much different. The environment, everything is so much different now.

That's so good to hear. And I know from being along for this ride that in the early days, it wasn't always obvious that it was going to end. Up this way.

It was not. It was not. She was not thrilled that I had a boyfriend. She thought it was ridiculous that somebody my age had a boyfriend. She, you know, really didn't want to meet Joe in circumstances. Kind of had to force a meeting with a funeral. And then he helped me get my house ready to sell. And I stood by what I needed to do to look out for myself. And she liked it or not and did it. But I will tell you right now, she's excited to see Jo just as much as she's excited to see me when she comes home.

And I know, like you just said, you know, like it or not, but I also know you did it in a very gentle, respectful way. And I know from having those conversations with you that these things are tough. And dealing with kids and integrating new partners is always difficult, and it always seems like they're never going to come around. But what you did so wonderfully, and it's the proof is in the outcome. And you know what she said to you? Um, you modeled setting healthy boundaries.

I did.

And so she may not even realize that part yet. But so much of what we know about relationships, it's generational. We learn from our parents, and so you get to be what they call a cycle breaker.

And I am so excited about that. I'm very excited about that.

And it's just like, you know, and sometimes it's not something you can, you can't explain these kinds of things to anybody. It just has to be something that they see and you model, you show them how it's done. And clearly she has internalized some of that from just how she's responding to you now.

Yeah, I, I, I agree. I agree. And it's, I couldn't be happier. In fact, she had good news about something, and Joe was outside and she told him and forgot to tell me. And it was so funny because he mentioned it, and I said, I don't know. What are you talking about? And it was kind of funny. And then she came in and you know what? I didn't get upset. I was thrilled. I was so happy that she, you know, wanted to share her news with Joe.

Yeah. Like, oh, gosh, that's huge. And it's, it's, she's come a long way. Right. Times when she wouldn't talk to him, wouldn't be in the same room, didn't ever want to see him. All the stuff that I should also just say for everyone is typical. Like, that is part of, it's not them doing. It's that's just. They're doing what they're supposed to be doing as. As teenage kids and. But, you know, it does. It does work out if you handle it the right way. It does work out.

And no, I'm thrilled that I did it the way that I did because other. I had gotten some terrible advice from the same friend.

No.

Well, it doesn't matter. And I played it out right. Intentionally because I did not want her to be hurt if it didn't work out or whatnot. But.

Well, and I. I think, you know, I will say one thing in defense of your. Your bad advice friend is a lot mo. A lot of friends are bad advice friends and don't know it. And they're not in. No one's intentionally giving bad advice. It's just so much of what we think is true about human psychology and relationships, it's just not accurate right there. There's just a lot of misinformation out there and that it. Things that kind of seem okay or like you've seen it work once before, so you think it's. It's. Well, we always. And what I love about what we do is everything's based on science and research. And so, you know, everything we're doing is going to give you the best percentage shot to get it right. And it. That ends up, over the long haul, being immensely more helpful than some of. Some of the advice you get from friends. Even though they mean well. They mean well.

Right. And I think you don't know what you don't know.

Yes. Right.

Well, so, you know, like, I always go back. You know, my mom did the best she could, and I'm very grateful for all the lessons that I've learned and seen along the way.

So I love that because that's also something we talk a lot about on Mastermind is like having Grace. And most people most of the time really are doing the best job they possibly can. And a lot of times they're dealing with limited information or who knows what their situations are. There's a lot that goes into it, but, yeah, no, it's important to keep that generous interpretation, as we say. And so, Tracy, as we kind of wrap up here, do you have any next steps with Joe, like, what's on the horizon?

Well, on Friday, we are meeting a realtor to put his condo on the market, and we are starting the process of having him move in.

All right.

To the house that he helped me move into. So he has every bit of stake in it, as. As I have emotionally. So. Okay. Yeah. So it's exciting.

I wish you all the best. Moving and living together. There's. I know you know this. There's going to be little bumps. There's going to be little things along the way. But, you know, the great news is now you're equipped to deal with them. What would a secure person do? And it's like, what would Tracy do? That's really all you have to ask?

No. Awesome. Thank you so much. I really have enjoyed this.

Thank you, Tracy. I'm sure all our listeners have as well. And so maybe I'll see you on a Mastermind tonight.

All right. Sounds good. See you later.

Take care. Bye. Bye.

Thank you.