What a Man is REALLY Telling You if He's Afraid of Commitment
1 Nov 2022 · 30 min
Adam LoDolce and Dr. Gary Lewandowski explain commitment phobia through interdependence theory: men avoid commitment when they believe they can do better. If he won't introduce you to friends, avoids talking about the future, or keeps things casual, he's signaling he's still shopping. The advice: create distance, stop trying to convince him, explore other options, and be ready to leave.
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They say basically, commitment comes from this idea of your perceived quality of alternatives. And so that's really just a fancy, goofy way of saying, like, how good of a partner could you be with if you weren't with your current partner? Right. And so we all are walking around with this inner head. I mean, obviously we're not nerdy enough to call it our perceived quality of alternatives, but it's like you kind of have this sense of like, hmm, if I wasn't with the person I'm with, how good could I do out there on the open market?
Welcome to the Love Strategies podcast, where we help successful women attract high value men, date with a strategy and improve their relationships. Now, whether you're single or dating or in a new relationship, we're here to help you dive into the male mind and provide raw insights found nowhere else, backed by science, psychology, and our own personal experiences. Your hosts today are myself, Adam lodolce, professional dating coach and founder of Love strategies, and. And Dr. Gary Lewandowski, a relationship scientist, professor, and our head relationship coach here at Love Strategies. Please share with a friend and enjoy. All right, ladies, we have the click baitiest of clickbait headlines that Gary told me he wanted to talk about for this week's podcast that I know nothing about, by the way.
So we're.
I'm really excited about this in the sense of I don't know what he wants to talk about. The headline is what a man is really telling you if he's afraid of commitment. So, Gary, what is a man really telling you if he's afraid of commitment?
So I'm glad that I got you. Guessing. I got you. I'm keeping you on your toes. But you said it's the clickbait title. Apparently you click, my friend.
Oh, yes, I did click and viewing. Tell me what's up.
So what's a man really telling you when he's afraid of commitment? And so you know, what's. What's this about? Like, when he's afraid of commitment. So everyone's heard about commitment phobia, right?
Yeah.
And so, Adam, like, what are you afraid of? Is there anything like that you just, you have a fear of. Fill in the blank. Like, what would it be?
Commitment, Gary. Commitment. I just got married. No, I was afraid of commitment deeply for a decent period of life. What am I afraid of? It used to be public speaking. Honestly, nothing right now is I like a lot Spiders, I guess. Like, I'm thinking of what was Joe Rogan on that show where Fear Factor. You'd be in Like a box of spiders and they're crawling over my head. That. Okay, that's it.
That's it. That's your. That's your thing. Spiders. Yeah. So actually, in preparation for this, I looked up, like, what are the top ones? And spiders comes in at number six. Really? The number one, like you kind of alluded to, is public speaking, which I'm sure you're not afraid of. That two is death, then heights, closed space. So if there's one that I'm afraid of, closed spaces, like, the idea of, like, being tight in something, like in a tunnel, or like something like closing down on top of you freaks me out. Even though I did go, I did go white water rafting once, jumped through a rock and, like, swam through a rock out into the river out in Colorado. I don't know what possessed me to do that, but now thinking about it terrifies me.
You're breaking through your fears, though, dude.
I was scared.
You want to do the rest of this podcast in the closet and just, like, see what happens? I want to see.
Because there might be spiders in there, which is the sixth fear, and it's dark, which is number seven. So the thing is, I was honestly looking at the top, because I want to look at the top 20 most common phobias in America just to see if the commitment happened to be on the list of. And it's not. And yet, I think, you know, I'm sure from dealing with women in, you know, relationship coaching, you come across. And the women we deal with, they come across, you know, this fear of commitment in men all the time. And so I was just also curious, you know, in terms of dealing with this, with clients, what kind of things have you seen that are kind of typifying, like the men that are commitment phobic?
Well, it's interesting to say this because I was running late to our podcast shoot because I was finishing up a mastermind session. And we had one client who, before she was in our program, she just joined a couple weeks ago. And this is a pretty normal story. She's been a casual, we call situationship. So it's like casual dating. And he lives an hour and a half away. And he said that that's why he's afraid of commitment and he doesn't want to be in a relationship. So I explained to her, like, look, first off, if that really is the case, like, that's a problem and that's not going to be fixed anytime soon as a starting point, because she has. She can't move there, whatever. And B, that's likely not the problem here. So let's have a real dialogue about where this is going. And of course he was like, yeah, I'm actually really not in a stage in my life where I'm looking for something real. I'm not really looking for a relationship. And there in comes the fear of commitment. And I explained to her with a welcome, open arms and a digital hug. And I never said digital hug out loud.
I don't think I ever will again.
But I did give her a warm digital hug and let her know that she's taking two steps backwards right now. But they're the best two steps backwards she'll ever take because she's about to get rid of this just what we call emotional energy vampire. Get rid of this guy who's just sucking her energy dry so she can take 10 steps forward, 20 steps forward, because. So, yeah, we, we just talked about that. And this guy, quote, unquote, was afraid of commitment. But I certainly have other theories I've been feeling. That's where you're going with this podcast.
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's. You're dead on.
Right.
It's like, so he's saying that it's about the hour and a half, right. And what the guy's saying and what's the reality are two different things. So, you know, in this particular case, he's using distance as an excuse. You know, there's other signs, I think, of guys who are afraid of commitment, like, not introducing you to their friends, not talking about the future, you know, not wanting to move in together, you know, not wanting to, like, go on a serious vacation together. I mean, there's, there's lots of things that, that kind of all.
All show wanting to even just walk to the park for, for an hour during the day when sex isn't involved. Like just the basics. Right. To go out to lunch together. Not like have a late night booty call, you know.
Right. Yeah. Like, you know, just not wanting to hang out and just talk, talk, get.
To know each other. Right.
Like, so, you know, and then the guys were like, I'm afraid of commitment. And then they'll have a bunch of kind of explanations that are really just excuses. And so that's kind of like the setup for like, what is actually going on here. And so I think it's really useful to talk about where commitment comes from. Right. So if they're afraid of commitment, like, what, what drives commitment? And so there's a long standing theory in relationship science about interdependence and so where does commitment come from? They say basically commitment comes from this idea of your perceived quality of alternatives. And so that's really just a fancy goofy way of saying, like, how good of a partner could you be with if you weren't with your current partner? Right. And so we all are walking around with this in our head. I mean, obviously we're not nerdy enough to call it our perceived quality of alternatives, but it's like you kind of have a sense of like, if I wasn't with the person I'm with, how good could I do out there on the open market? Right?
Yeah.
And so the thing is this perception, this level that you have about your alternatives determines how committed you're going to be. And so if you are at this, if you're with a person that's here and your quality of alternatives fall below that person, you're thrilled, you're happy, right? I mean, you're staying in that relationship. Because if I lose this, I get something worse.
Dating out of your league, baby. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Like, you know, I knowledge we are both dating out of our league with our. Absolutely.
Don't. I don't want my wife to see this one.
Yeah, wife. Just don't watch this right now because you could be dating much better looking guys than me for sure.
Yes. There's a little behind the scenes. I don't want you to see this, but it's like, you know, if you're at a job that pays you six figures, you're not. And the best you could get if you weren't at that job was a job that only paid you 50k. You're never leaving that job.
Right.
But you're at that same job that pays 100k, right? And all of a sudden you think like, well, if I left this job, I could get one that pays 200k, 300. Guess what happens to your commitment to that 100k job?
I don't know, a little shaky I think they call it these days. Quietly quitting. Like you actually, don't you just like put your slack on but you're not actually working, you know, type thing?
That's the, don't you think that happens in relationships?
Quietly quitting in relationships, Quiet quitting in.
The relationship because you're starting to like get a sense of like, huh, might be able to do better.
Right.
And so this whole idea of thinking you might possibly be able to do better is really the source of commitment phobia. Now said another way, those guys who are commitment phobic, they're labeling it in this way that in a way is a kindness, because it's not necessarily blaming anybody other than themselves. They're putting it on themselves, which, like I said, is a kindness.
But.
But really what they're saying is that they have a sneaking suspicion that they might be able to do better than you. And so they're gonna keep stringing you along in a quiet quitting way or even just a. Like, it's the distance, babe. It's not you, it's me. I've got this thing and it's like, here's the. Here's the.
I got a busy job. The job is the big one.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not ready. I need to make more money. I need to have more money in the savings account before I can do this. You know, it's all of those things that seem on the surface, like, okay, those are some semi reasonable explanations, total garbage, right? It's because underneath it, it's actually this thing of like, huh. Because those same people that are commitment phobic, we both have this easiest solution ever. You want to cure somebody of commitment phobia? Have some super hot celebrity, ask them to marry them, right? That person who's afraid of commitment, right? That guy, Scarlett Johansson says, hey, you want to lock this down? Hell yeah, I'll do that.
Until he realizes she's like crazy or something.
I don't know.
I don't know what Scarlett Johansson. Who knows if she's crazy or not.
But she's watching this. I'm sure she's delightful. I can't believe you said that about her.
Oh, I'm sure. Hey, Scarlett, give me a call. 71. Yeah, give me a call. Let me know because. Yeah, so I really hope Jess doesn't listen.
Now we establish our wives aren't watching this one. We can say whatever we want. But, you know, I think that's. That's the thing is like that you take that person who's an hour and a half away that says they're commitment phobic. There is a per. There is a partner out there that they're willing to move for. There's a partner that they're willing to make more sacrifices for. There's a partner that they're willing to move heaven and earth and everything else, like, to. To. To be with. And it's. They're not doing that. Not because you're a bad person or anything. It's just that they. You're here and they think they can kind of get up here.
Hey there, ladies. As you can see, we're just getting this podcast off the ground. And since we don't run any ads, I only have one quick favor to ask in return. Can you just take a quick second right now, pause this episode, and just leave us a review? Wherever it is that you're listening to the podcast, you really help us out a lot, and it really does spread the love, and I think the world needs a little bit more of that. So I appreciate you. Now, let's get back to the show. Now, the key word for those who are listening to this and thinking, oh, no, like, this feels terrible because this just happened to me, the key word is that they think. Yes, big word there. They think they can do better. And I will just speak out of personal experience in certain times in my life, like, I think a lot of us. Which direction do I want to go in? I think that there are certain stages in life where you always are thinking, the grass is greener. There's always something, I can do better. I can always find someone better. But the reality is that's not always necessarily true. And actually, many times it's not true. And it's kind of a mindset that certain guys have at certain stages of their life. And then I can remember certain stages of my life where I'm just like, you know what? This whole, like, always shooting for the next thing, always trying to find something better, always trying to optimize, is actually not a healthy way to live, and it's not making me happier. And so then there's, I think, another stage that a guy goes through. Maybe this is where a guy is, like, more relationship focused. Maybe it's just more realistic focus where you're just like, I want to find someone who just makes me feel really happy and who I'm aligned with and compatible with.
Yeah. And I think this. This is a typical guy move. Right. I mean, guys, one of the things we are. We're a lot of things, we're overconfident about pretty much everything.
Yep.
Right. We all think we're smarter than we are. We all think we're funnier than we are. We all think we're more talented. You know, any guy that's, you know, plays the guitar thinks he's better at that than he actually is. Right. I mean, it's work. We think we're better at a bunch of things. And so that whole thing about they think they can do better, I. You know, I'm gonna say 90% of the time, they're wrong. Right. And so you kind of Kindly said, well, maybe they start shifting to, like, more of a relationship mindset. I think that's possible. And that that's a kind way to put it. I think what happens is they take enough swings and they have enough misses that they start. Reality keeps hitting them and like, wait, I really. I want this and I think I can get this. And then, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And then all of a sudden, that same guy calls back later and says, hey.
Hey, hey, what's going on? I'm the ghoster that came back into your life.
He finally saw the light, huh?
And then, like, then they'll. The women will hang up. Like, Adam, why do you come back into my life? What is going on? Well, I don't know.
He thought the grass was greener, but then he actually, you know, finally got over the fence and realized it was just asphalt painted green. Right. It wasn't grass at all. Right. And so, you know, the guys, what they think is going on and what's actually going on, they're a little optimistic, particularly if it's, you know, a guy who hasn't been dating that much recently. You know, maybe they kind of don't necessarily know. Right. And so, you know, they're just trying to. They're trying things out.
Right, Right. Yeah. And I tell this to my clients a lot and I. There's a lot of science and research that backs this up, that men, as you were saying, we tend to over perceive interest from women, whereas women tend to underperceive interest for men. So basically, what does that mean us guys, we're walking around, going on meetups, going on dates, and be like, oh my God, every girl's totally digging me. They get my swagger and all this stuff. And while you're thinking like, okay, dude, like, you're okay, whatever, but. And then women are going around thinking like, oh, no guys are really that interested in me. No one's. I'm not really that pretty. I'm not that great. Whereas, like, all these guys are super into you. So realize that it's. I don't know if it's. It's a feature or a bug in, in the human brain, but that is a pretty well known thing when it comes to dating. And I, having coached men where and then coach women, I definitely noticed this. Like, sometimes I had to be like, dude, like, take it down a peg, okay? She's not into you, man. Like, just read her body language. And then with women, I have to be like, holy crap, all these guys are super into you're. Just not giving them the time of day. So I think that that also kind of plays into this. Where do you think that comes from, like, men just being so overconfident and over perceiving interest from women?
You know, I think it's an evolutionary thing. I think, you know, for guys, they have their. Their whole goal is to pass on and have a lot of offspring, Right. And so there's no. There's not a lot of investments necessary for them to father a bunch of children. And so casting a wider net increases your chances. Right. That. That shotgun approach, you're just playing the odds. It's actually not a terribly dumb strategy because it works, right? I mean, you shoot enough shots, right? Like, some of them are going to land. And so, you know, the guys, it's another form of overconfidence. They're going out in the world and they're seeing, you know, every time the barista says, oh, here's your. Here's your drink, and gives you a smile, you're like, she wants me.
Oh, so she didn't want me today. That's Starbucks. No, that Starbucks woman, she was so into me when she smiled and said, here's your change. No, I didn't have change. I use a credit card. But anyways. Oh, my God. I. This is devastating to hear.
So. So here's the thing. When you have a guy who's commitment phobic, what do you think they should do?
What do you think the women should do? Well, the best way to create desire is through distance.
Yeah. Take a step back so they can step forward.
Yeah, yeah. And. And value is perceived. So a man, when he thinks he can do better. Okay, so now let's. Let's dive into. This is a really good train of thought for all the women who are like, wow, there's a lot of information, but, like, what do I do? Value, when it comes to mating is truly perceived. So depending on how available you are and a number of different factors, but let's just say how available you are and how much you're giving him affection, he will set a certain value. Value in his mind. And whether or not you think like you are raised as women that believe that all has to do with looks, your boobs, your butt, all that stuff. Value, actually, yes, that is a part of it, but actually in many ways is not. And he. When he thinks he can do better, he's just making a value judgment. So the question is, how do you raise your value to this guy? Well, the only way to do it that I know, and I've been doing this for a long time, is to create distance and explore other options. When you explore other options, men start to get this spidey sense in their brain. Like, oh, I'm starting to lose her. Like, she must actually. And they're not actually thinking this, but this is kind of how it goes. Like, she must be a high value woman if she's not actually willing to stick around with my bs. She's willing to go off and explore other options. Wow, maybe I misjudged her value. And then what does that do? It might bring them back and then realize what is missing and so on and so forth. And I don't know, did I get the quiz right?
Yeah, no, I think, I think 100%, you know, I think, you know, it goes along with exactly what not to do. So what not to do? When he says, oh, you know, I'm commitment phobic, you know, I live an hour and a half away and I don't really know, don't do the things that you kind of want to do, which is like try to convince them, nag him, guilt trip them, coerce them, blackmail him with sex. I don't know. Like, there's a whole bunch of things. Give them an ultimatum, like, give him some kind of countdown clock, like, if you don't do this by this date, and I'm going to. Because even if you do any of those things, even if you win, and he like somehow is all of a sudden over his commitment phobia, you didn't win, you're still going to lose. Because why always in the back of your mind you'd be thinking, is he here because he wants to be here, or is he here because I coerced, nagged, annoyed him so much that he wanted to stay. And so when the guy says, oh, listen, I'm committed phobic, I don't really know. You know, what I think women should do is like you said, create some distance and say basically, no, okay, that, that's fine, that makes sense. But you know, just so you know, I hope you're, you're going to be comfortable with this, but I'm going to then look elsewhere, right? And just kind of like pivot right away and be like, okay, that's fine, I'll be fine on my own.
Yeah.
And he's gonna be like, wait, wait. What? Wait, you're not gonna wait around.
Amen. And so with this client, like, had she been in the program for longer, she would have done this, or hopefully known to do this. But the advice would have been, rather than have a whole conversation with him, be like, oh, well, I don't think you're ready. Or, I'm ready. I'm looking for a long term relationship. Like, will you be in a long term relationship with me? Now, we don't do any of that stuff. The answer is break up with him. And don't break up with him and say, oh, it's because you're not looking for a long term relationship. Just end it with him. Be like, you know what? I don't see this as necessarily a fit. And then let him fight for you back.
Yeah.
Like, if he doesn't fight for you, this isn't to play. And by the way, this isn't to play games. Like, look, at the end of the day, you could say, like, look, I do think the distance is an issue, and I just don't necessarily see, like, the fit here right now. And that's based on what you've been saying. And this is based on where I'm at in my life. And see, if he fights for you, and if he doesn't fight for you, he's not the right fit for you.
Yeah. You got to know your value. Right. Like, so he says, I'm not willing. Okay. You say, okay, great. But it's perfectly fair and fine to say why. What I'm really looking for is someone who can be there for me. I feel like I deserve that. And so that's what I'm gonna go look for.
Right.
Right. I can do better. Basically. You know, you don't have to come right out and say, hey, look, I deserve and can do better than this, but you need to basically say that.
Yep. And. And the nuance to this that. That I always teach in Love Accelerator is like, when you say that you're looking for a relationship in a situation like this, be very clear that when you're saying that to the guy, like, in this situation where he's being commitment phobic, don't say, I'm looking for a relationship with you. I want you to be in a relationship with me. I want you to be committed to me. I want you to work harder. Just say, I'm at a stage in my life where I'm looking for something real. And based on how things have been going, I get the sense that you're not ready for that, and that's perfectly okay, but we cannot see each other anymore. So now it's kind of taking it away from like, oh, I need to be in a relationship with you. And just saying, my standards are. I'm looking for something real. I'm looking for a relationship, whether that's with you or someone else. That's. We don't know. The jury's still out. And it, it positions it in a way where you are very, very high value. Right. Because you're now the high value. Say, I'm up here and maybe it's with you, maybe it's not. I don't know. You still have, like, a lot of work to do. If he's like, well, I, you know, I. The distance is in the way and all this stuff. Yeah, I totally understand. The distance is away and this, this is not going to be a fit. And then you. And then you actually cut the cord. And most people don't do it. They say, oh, well, we can make it work. No, no, no, no. Like, you actually do it.
Yeah. You gotta be willing to walk away. Right. And the other piece that I see women fall into in this situation is they feel guilty about advocating for themselves and advocating for what they want. Right. And it's like you feel like, oh, well, I shouldn't say that, or I shouldn't feel like, you know, I don't want to be mean. Listen, he's telling you exactly what he wants. He's already, he's made that move. He's already declared what he's looking for. Isn't it okay for him to do that? Well, sure. Like, I mean, that's reasonable. Like, he's being honest. That's. That's what we want in relationships. We want people to tell us what they want. And so if he's doing that, you get to do the exact same thing. And not only get to really have to. Because you want equal, right? Equal is how that relationship is. If it's ever going to work, that's what you want. And so you don't want him to kind of make his own rules and you're just kind of like, waiting and just kind of watching and hoping. Like, that's. You start then having this kind of relationship and that's not what you want long term, I would guess.
Definitely not. Definitely not. I don't think anyone would want that relationship where you're. You're hoping. And the thing is, if you're hoping and he is being commitment, focus, phobic, and he just wants to keep it casual and whatever that is. Man speak. Okay, ladies, like, this is just a direct translation. I got to get this on, like, Google Translate. Okay. That means I want to keep seeing you. I want to keep Sleeping with you. I want to keep having maybe even emotional connection with you. I want to be able to even tell you my deep secrets. But I also want to get out there and see if I can do better.
And it's that can I do better? Part.
Back to your thing. Can I get out there and do better? And I don't want you to take this as a reflection on you. It doesn't mean that he can do better. And that's not even necessarily a healthy way to look at it. But the reality is that guys that are in that stage or people that are that stage, that's just what they do, right, Gary? I mean, do women. Are women guilty? I mean, I know women are guilty of this. My clients are, can I do better? Constantly in that phase. But do you feel that men are much more guilty of this than women?
I think men are much more guilty of this than women when it comes to relationships. Because I think women are factoring in multiple things, and so they can see value in some areas and not others. And then they kind of do this global average where men are much more. I don't know, it's simplistic, right? And so it's easier when you're simplistic to be like, you know what, my iPhone 13 is pretty good, but the iPhone 14 has one extra hour of battery life, so clearly that's better. Right. And I think women are just much more thoughtful about relationships. They're much more intentional. And so they know that just that one extra bonus feature isn't enough to throw away what they already have.
Yeah, right. And I do think that there's. For those who are. I mean, I have certainly seen some of my clients who, or maybe I don't know if it's can I do better? But they get distracted by the wrong things that maybe don't set them up. So they're looking for certain qualities, like, as in, can I do better? Like, let's say they go with a guy who is just a director and they're like, oh, I think I could. There's this other guy hitting me up who is much more successful. Can I do better on that stage? And I think that there's some wisdom just having seen this time and time again and just realizing that a long term, healthy, committed relationship is just all about how that person makes you feel. And do you have a really good focus on the relationship and the connection rather than the things, the shiny objects of a relationship? And once you focus on like the relationship and the connection, the feelings that you feel and don't get distracted by, is he more attractive? Is she more attractive? Does he have more money? Does she have bigger boobs? But whatever. Once you kind of can focus on the emotional part of it, how that person makes you feel when you're around them, suddenly I think you don't get as distracted by that. And I don't know, that's. That's how I think about it.
Yeah. And I think, you know what you're calling shiny objects. Remember that a lot of these things that we're like, seeing what, how we want better, it's all the things that are easy to see, right? Like, all those physical things, the titles, the success signals, how much money it looks like somebody has. These are all like those superficial things, super easy to see, super easy to measure. So we think that those matter more because we can pick up on those things.
Right.
But none of those things are actually what's really important long term. But the problem is all things that are important long term are below the surface. Like, it's the more complicated. Like, do I feel comfortable when I'm with them? Do I like them? Do we share a lot of mutual interests? We laugh together. Like, you know, what's our conversation? Like, how is this person gonna grow over the next five years? And they going to grow in a way that I'm comfortable with? Are they going to support my growth in a similar direction? Are we going to have that synergy together? Right. That's stuff that's harder to figure out, particularly because a lot of times we don't even know what to look for.
Right. And it's. And on that, like, so In Love accelerator, like, what we're looking for, we call it the lasting love formula, which is attraction, compatibility, and friendship. Let's just focus on the friendship side of this. Like, when you're friends with someone, are we always thinking, like, can I do better than my friend? I don't know. Like, I've. I've never. I mean, maybe I'm in a certain stage where I'm like, I think I could step up who I'm surrounding myself with. But it's not like in a. In a one particular person, I'm not like, can I do better than my best friend?
No, you don't even do it. Like, those people that you're thinking about, can I do better than that? But it's like those are like the people on the periphery of, like, your circle.
Right?
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not your best friend. No one's thinking about, like, huh, can I trade in My best friend for a better best friend. My new best friend give me a better necklace than the best friend necklace I have with my current best friend. Like, you just don't think like that. And your relationship partner should be, like, your best friend. And so we want to, like, treat them with the same level of, like, gravitas. Like, it's. It's that important. And so that trading in thing, I don't know.
Yeah.
But I do think, going back to what you're asking about, you know, men versus women, I think women are much less likely to trade in best friends than, like, I think guy best friends can. Can shift around a little bit easier.
Hmm. Interesting. We need to do. All right, maybe we didn't talk about what next week is going to be about. So how about this, Gary? How about men versus women? The differences between the two when it comes to dating and love? How's that?
Yeah, yeah, a little similarity difference. Like little, you know, men versus women, battle of the sexes kind of thing.
Oh, that sounds good. That sounds good. I'll bring some perspective when I used to coach men because, man, that was a crazy time in my life. And you bring some of the science, and we'll go from there. That was awesome. Anything else you want to add to this?
No, I think that. I think I'm good. But just remember, you know, don't listen so much to the superficial things that guys are saying about their commitment, phobia and all the excuses, because a lot of times those are, like, those shiny objects where it's, like, about distance, and you start thinking, like, how can I problem solve this one problem that he says is the problem. It's not the problem. There's other things going on.
Right. It kind of sets you free. It allows you to stop listening to someone's BS and be able to move on and actually find someone who does value you. So good stuff, Gary. That was awesome. And see you all next week.
All right, take care.
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