Hunter Terpenny, a CPA and founder of Hum Accounting, lived in a truck on the California coast for three years after leaving a corporate job, doing bookkeeping for local entrepreneurs. The 2008 financial collapse wiped out his family's college savings and sparked his lifelong focus on financial control. He now defines wealth not as a dollar figure but as autonomy over time, family, and meaningful work.
Chapters
Were you struggling? Were you free? What's that like?
Dude, I was completely free. No struggle really at all that entire time. It's funny, I have a good friend who has done some similar things, and one of her favorite quotes that— I don't know whether it's hers or she heard it somewhere else, but she says that like being poor is a calling. And I don't think that means in every way that you can use the word poor, but in the way that we were choosing to live with very little means and be completely free. If you have no money, you are basically just at the whim of whatever is happening to you and around you, and you really don't have much control over it whatsoever. With every additional dollar that you accumulate, you gain a little bit more control over your reality.
Hunter Terpenny is a CPA and the founder of Hum Accounting. After years of watching entrepreneurs struggle with outdated accounting practices that left them feeling confused and powerless, in 2021, after walking away from a funded tech startup, he launched Hum with 4 clients. In under 2 years, they hit 100 businesses entirely through word of mouth. Because for Hunter, it's never just about managing numbers. It's about helping awesome people build awesome businesses that make the world better.
And that's what I feel like I experienced a lot when I was in D.C. It was like, this is the way. And so we do things regardless of what it means, and we do them because we must, because we have families on our side that we have to take care of. And this is, you know, the rationalization can go anywhere.
Welcome to Money Stories, where we have real conversations with founders about money, meaning, and what makes a truly rich life. Today I am joined by my dear friend Hunter Herpenny. We've had a lot of life and times together over the last few years. He's the founder of Hum Accounting, who, shameless plug, does my books and for all of my companies. And thanks, Mike. Yeah, they're They're absolutely fantastic. But Hunter, you have a really incredible story. I'm excited to share it with my listeners. So why don't we just dig in from the beginning? How did you grow up with money and how did that drive you to become successful?
Man, all the way, all the way back, huh? Okay. So, you know, some of my, I guess some of my earliest memories were really around kind of the dynamic between my mom and dad. My mom worked part-time, was available for like school drop-offs and pickups and My dad worked full-time most of my life. My dad was a public servant, worked in local government. My mom worked at the hospital as a dietitian where I grew up in small kind of rural town in Virginia. When I was really young, it was really never a topic of conversation. We never really thought about it, but we always had— we always had what we needed. And I think the first memories I have were once I got to maybe kind of 6, 7, 8, kind of between like 6 and 10. You know, spending more time with friends and kind of seeing some things that we didn't have. So, you know, I grew up on a 40-acre plot of land. My dad built the house I grew up in. We had a pool. We had, you know, dirt bikes and four-wheelers. We had all kinds of cool, like, rural South, like, stuff. It was awesome. And then I go to my friends who lived in neighborhoods, and their parents, like, they didn't quite have all the same things that we did, but their parents would be like, "Hey, oh, we're going to go to the mall." And parents like, "Okay, here's, you know, $50, like, to go to the mall." I'd be like, "What? Your parents just handed you $50?" Like, What is that like? And they're like, well, now we get to go like play games and like buy stuff at the mall. And I'm like, oh, my parents have never handed me a dollar, like ever. Like, we have chores, we have to work the property, we have to do the bees and the chickens and the garden and all the things. And like, I've never— no one's ever handed me a dollar before. But we've got all this awesome stuff and all this awesome experience. And I know now, looking back on it, that, you know, that costs a lot of money. My dad worked really hard to kind of give us that, that life and that experience as kids. So So yeah, I'd say that was kind of the beginning of it. And then, you know, getting older and kind of growing up into, you know, middle school, high school, and then kind of transitioning into college. I think one of the most formative early money relationship things that I had was my dad was a, he was a college athlete. And so he got a full ride scholarship for swimming to Virginia Tech, which is also where I went to school. And he most, he wouldn't probably have gone to college if he didn't get that full ride. And then, you know, he didn't, he kind of did the college thing and like didn't really, he didn't finish in 4 years. So he actually took him 12 whole years to get one bachelor's degree in college, which I just love telling that story because he was just a professional. Like he was 32 before he actually graduated with a bachelor's degree in college. And partially because he started in mechanical engineering or in, sorry, industrial arts, switched to mechanical engineering and then almost finished that one and then switched to civil engineering. So he just, couldn't quite figure it out, but also I think he was just having a good time. You know, first 4 years were paid for, and he always saw swimming as like work at that point. It was like he's doing this for his degree, did as much as he needed to to keep his scholarship, and that was it. And then, you know, through the rest of college, he really only could do— it took him that much longer because he really just had to go to school part-time so that he could work and pay to live and go to school. Um, so he would work a double at the local gas station in Blacksburg, Virginia, on the weekends. So he'd work 16 hours Saturday, 16 hours Sunday, because then he'd still get full-time benefits for working 32 hours a week. And then you go to school during the week. So that was kind of like my— that I got like, that was very formative for me to kind of like learn as I grew up. And he kind of started to help me understand his relationship with money. Cut to, you know, college was over. He started working in local government, worked on the road crew for VDOT in Virginia. And then after that, he got a job as the assistant town manager, town administrator, kind of like local, local government guy, and then worked up and that guy retired and he became the town manager. And so, you know, did fairly well as far as like what our community, what our, what was relative for our community. And, you know, throughout all of that, like based on his experience, one of his main goals was that he was putting money aside for most of his adult life so that he could pay for his kids to go to college. It was kind of one of his like biggest, most important goals to him because he didn't have that support. And then he had to do it the way he did, and he just wanted to make sure that was possible for my sister and I.
And were you aware of that growing up?
Not until right— basically like right before college and like right as college was starting. Had no idea that like much of this at all. And the reason that we became— my sister and I became aware of it was because basically because of 2008. So I graduated high school in 2009. In 2008, like, he didn't know what he was doing, so he was trusting a money manager like a normal— like, it was a guy at the local bank. It wasn't even, you know, it wasn't even like an independent guy, didn't work for a big insurance company, kind of some of the traditional stuff that we know exists. Um, just an investment advisor who probably had his Series 7 at the local bank that was in our hometown. That was it. And so 2008 just like wiped him out. And it was everything that he had saved for my sister and I to go to college and was like basically there. And then I had to take out student loans to be able to go to Virginia Tech like the next year. And then my sister ended up choosing to go out of state. And so he, like my dad, like reverse mortgaged our house so that he could pay for her to go to college out of state. So just like kind of devastated him in a really wild way.
What was it like? Those times? I mean, can you take me back there? Like, what was it like seeing him go through that?
Yeah, I think I can take you back a little bit, but honestly, like, I, I've probably blocked a lot of it, like, blocked a lot of the— there's, you know, there's also, like, along with that, he was also kind of at the end of his, his tenure with the town, and, and there was a lot of stuff going— I mean, it's all interconnected, right? So, like, it was converting into a lot of interesting dynamics with because he was— he's an appointed official who works full-time, and then there's the entire town council and the mayor that are all elected officials. And but he basically like has 7 bosses in his job, right? And so there was— it all came to a head kind of all at once in a really wild way where he was having a ton of issues with certain members of the town council. He, you know, was building a bunch of things. Like, he, he did— as a civil engineer, he was like the town engineer. He did all of the— like, he like helped with all the contract. Like, he probably had like 4 or 5 different jobs within the town that when he stuff they had to replace. So anyway, it's— it just— we just watched him kind of like disappear almost, like from his work, from my sister and I, from my mom. Like, he just— he just retreated, honestly, in a kind of a wild way. Because again, I think if I look back on like the way he grew up, like, I think that was something pretty common for his— his dad as well. It was like, that was a way— that was just men don't have emotions, right? Like, that's kind of a newer thing that we're all, like, finding a way to connect with. And, um, so that was really tough. It was really tough to kind of, like, watch him just retreat. And, uh, yeah, and it just— I think it made this kind of— took— I took this— I had a switch in my mind where I was like, I'm just never gonna— I'm just never gonna let that happen. Like, I'm never gonna let that happened to me, and I'm not— I don't want that to happen to, um, my family and anyone in my life that I build like significant meaningful relationships with in the future. Friends, chosen family, whatever you want to call it. Um, I just can't let that— can't let that happen again.
You know, at this point you've grown up never really thinking too much about money, maybe seeing some contrast with neighbors and recognizing perhaps you didn't have as much as others, but all of a sudden your world kind of comes crashing down and, you know, this is your college-age years. What do you do with that pain at that point?
You know, I think to put it in perspective, like, I was still able to go to the college I wanted to. My sister was still able to do the thing that she wanted to. It definitely changed the dynamic. And it was, it was less, it was less pain. I mean, I think I really haven't recognized or re— like, it's, it's taken me since then to, to understand the effect, right? Like, at that point it was like, it was very clear. It was like, oh my God, I'm watching this happen to someone close to me. I'm gonna make— I'm gonna draw this line in the sand, and that's it. It's just a matter of fact. Like, this is just a decision that I'm gonna make, and my life will go down this path because of it. Like, that was just— that was very clear. Um, and it's only been since I've kind of matured in, like, I guess the, my relationship with my father and the, and my relationship with money and everyone around me's relationship with money have continued to mature over my life that like I've started to recognize the like impact or effect it had on me. It was almost like I, in my own way, I kind of did like a, not a retreat, but I just like, nope, shut down. Cool. Action. Like didn't really think or process much about it at that time.
Yeah. And which totally makes sense for a young kid, right? You don't necessarily have the emotional tools.
Totally.
Most kids, especially of our generation, weren't that lucky to, to have those sort of processing tools to even know what to do with that.
Absolutely.
But you draw this line in the sand. How does that start to manifest into your life?
Yeah, so I had— it's funny, I had already been on a kind of an interesting path, and I think you probably know this, but I— the first 2 years of college at Virginia Tech, I was actually a musical theater major before getting into finance and accounting.
Which— pretty radical switch.
Yeah. And if you— yeah, I mean, if you know me well enough, you know that there's versions of that that play out in my current life all the time. So, but basically, you know, I also, I also got into the business school at the same time. Funny other kind of tangent story is that the, the local— because I grew up in that area, the local community they have something called— Virginia Tech does something called On-Site Decision where they— you don't— I never had to actually apply. I didn't have to write an essay or do anything. Like, they come to the local community, local towns, and they go to the high schools and they go run down the list and they look at your SAT scores and, um, and your GPA, and they just check off like, yeah, you can come, you— nope, nope, you can't come, you can come, you can come, you can come. So while the, while the rep from Virginia Tech is at my high school, they call me down to the office and they're like, hey man, 'Your reading and writing scores on your SATs are so bad that we're not actually legally allowed to let you into our university.' And I was like, 'What are we doing here? Are you guys just here to beat me up? What's going on?' They're like, 'No, no, but your SAT scores in math are so good that we want you to join our engineering department,' because Virginia Tech has a world-class engineering school. And I was like, 'Oh, okay, cool.' And they're like, 'If you take the dual enrollment English class that gets you technically college credit through the local community college, then and get a B or better, like we can replace your SAT scores. You got to work around it and then you can come to Virginia Tech. So I did. I took that class, I got a B- and actually got in, got into school there. So anyway, so I— so that's where it like, you know, math is— it's just numbers are obviously my thing. Even, even with the creative side of like wanting to go down that path, I, you know, outside of the money story part, like I moved to— I was— I did 2 years in musical theater and then I moved to L.A. thinking like, well, I don't really need a degree. I'm going to just go see what, you know, a big city's doing and what the entertainment industry is like. I barely spent 4 months there over a summer and came back and switched out of musical theater. And, and I was doing— I was in the business school already doing marketing because I thought, well, if I don't cut it as a performer, maybe I want to be an agent, like a talent agent. So I had put those 2 things together, came back, switched out of theater, and went in straight and took marketing and transitioned that into finance. And I took my first Finance 101 class and learned the time value of money calculation. Which was like, this is it. This is the answer. Like, 8th wonder of the world, right? Like compound interest, basically. Like, it's— this is, this is the thing. This is the thing that— and obviously there's a lot more to it. And, you know, my degree in finance and accounting, but, um, I just decided that I was going to study it and I was going to understand it all the way from personal finance, um, all the way through, you know, business corporate accounting stuff. And I just wanted to I didn't know where I was going to fall from a career perspective. Like you were saying, like young kids, um, college-age kids, like I didn't know what I was doing. Like I went to college because I was supposed to. Like, that's why I picked musical theater because I really liked the, the choir, um, teacher at my high school and she was like, you'd be good at this, you should try. I was like, okay, cool. I guess that's what we do. We just pick something and figure it out. Um, so anyway, so all that to say, um, I just really needed to have a command and control over that like kind of huge element of my life and realized that from that pretty early age because, you know, it's, it's a medium. Like, it's not like money in my mind, like money doesn't have any of its own value. And I think, you know, culturally, obviously it does. But when it gets down to like, you know, brass tacks, like it is truly just an efficient medium of exchange for goods and services, experiences, all kinds of stuff. And so I just really needed to, needed to be able to control that for myself.
How does that play out? I mean, it sounds like you had this deep interest in finance from personal to corporate. How does that start to play out in your life? I mean, you know, it's, it's not lost on me that you were watching your dad kind of become a shell of himself based on money. You draw a line in the sand that I'm going to control this very important and real aspect of life.
Yeah.
How does that play out for you?
Yeah, well, I mean, I'll just take you into like the next couple of years, basically. So I, when I was in school, I was, I studied finance in the business department and then at Virginia Tech they had like a specific track for like wealth management and financial planning, which basically similar to an accounting like master's, it gets you ready to sit for your CFP exam, your Certified Financial Planner exam, and become a licensed professional like right out of school. Which was really cool and exciting to me because that was exactly the thing that my dad would have needed on the other end to be properly protected from what happened, right? And not that he would have been fully insulated, but even just slightly better insulated than he was would have been, would have been great. So that's what those last 2 years were, were basically just studying that all the way up to like my capstone wealth management class where the whole course for the entire semester is building out like a full 99-page financial plan for a for a, for like a complex family with different, you know, business units and investments and, you know, all kinds of stuff. Like it was a really cool like learning experience. And that was where I thought I wanted to go. Cut to, you know, around graduation, all of our professors telling us like, you got to go independent firm, you got to go RIA, you got to do it right. And then there's the handful of us that are like, no, we got it. We'll go, we'll go do, we'll go do New York Life. We'll go do like I went to AXA Equitable, which is a big French insurance company that multibillion-dollar company, you know, and it just chewed me up and spit me out. And like within 8 months, um, I went straight up there. It was 100% commission. It's, you know, the whole— it seems like the whole business model is built to get a bunch of young hungry people in and then kind of strip them of all their family members who might need annuity or insurance products, even if they don't actually need them. It's a fucking racket. Excuse my language, but—
Oh, you can say fuck here.
Yeah. Okay, cool. Awesome. So, so anyway, so that's, so I did that for 8 months. I absolutely hated it. It was not the version that I was excited about. I became a glorified life insurance salesman and I was like, I gotta get, I gotta get out of here. So, um, it, that, you know, is a major pendulum swing. Like I basically just had discounted being in finance at that point. I was like, okay, well I tried the thing, that was it. And I'm, I'm done. I moved back in with my dad. Um, he and my mom had split at that point, and I washed dishes at a vegetarian restaurant for 6 months making $7.25 an hour, um, staying up until 2 in the morning washing dishes, and, uh, saved up about $800 and then got in my truck and drove to California because from the time I had been there, I really loved Southern California, but I didn't want anything to do in the entertainment industry. And I lived in my truck for almost 3 years at the beach in Southern California, like between Venice and Santa Monica, Topanga, all the way up to Ventura County line and up into like Malibu and Calabasas and just totally did the dirtbag thing. I was rock climbing on the weekends in the Eastern Sierras and Bishop and Lone Pine up through Mammoth and into Yosemite. I was surfing in Southern California most of the time, and I had, you know, less than $100 in my— I didn't even really— I don't even know if I had a bank account. I just had $100 in cash in my truck at any given time over those first few months at least. Um, and then I met a couple while I was surfing. I met a couple that was working, uh, or that lived in Malibu. And the guy we got to— I got to know the guy pretty well. He was like, hey man, I'll pay you like $100 a day to come do manual labor on my ranch up in Malibu. And I was like, dude, that's more money than I have in my pocket. That sounds great. Um, so we got to know each other, you know. Long story short, I did that for a while. They both had their own individual businesses. And so I was like, hey guys, I can like do some of the admin, like lower level stuff that you don't really want to do. And I'd love to stop digging post holes and fixing your chicken coop if that's possible. So I started working with them. I would like run to their P.O. box and pick up mail and deal with the state and the IRS and, you know, started doing their bookkeeping. Super simple. Like met their CPA who is in Calabasas and started working with him and he was like, man, you know, I've got a lot of other small business clients in this practice. We don't like doing the bookkeeping in-house. If you want that, I'll just kind of keep farming it to you and you keep doing good work and makes our tax returns easier, yada yada. And yeah, did that for like 3, 4 years.
I want to go back.
Yeah, yeah.
To dirtbag life. So you, you're on the personal finance track. You go to New York and get this— D.C., D.C. Yeah. This soul-sucking job.
Oh, yeah.
You think you're on one track.
You've seen the picture of me with my buzz cut in the, in the suit.
And yeah, yeah, you're really doing it.
That's a shell of a human right there, dude.
And then you go live in your truck for 3 years. Like, were you struggling? Were you free? Was it both? I was like, what's that like?
Dude, I was completely free. Yeah, no struggle. No struggle really at all that entire time. Like, I— so it's funny, I have a good friend who has done some similar things, and one of her favorite quotes that I don't know whether it's hers or she heard it somewhere somewhere else, but she says that like being poor is a calling. And I don't think that means in every, in every way that you can use the word poor, but in the way that we were choosing to live with very little means and be completely free. I think that the way I think about that, if you are, if you have no money, you are basically just at the whim of whatever is happening to you and around you, and you really don't have much control over it whatsoever. With every additional dollar that you accumulate, you gain a little bit more control over your reality. And so certain people, and we all know these kinds of people on either end of the spectrum, are only willing to handle certain— are only willing to handle certain amounts of feeling out of control. And so those people do things for money that not everybody is maybe willing or excited about doing. And that's what I feel like I experienced a lot when I was in D.C. It was like, this was the— this is the way. And so we do things regardless of what it means, what the repercussions are, what the ripple effect is. And we do them because we must, because we have families on our side. That we have to take care of. And this, you know, the rationalization can go anywhere. But so anyway, I think it was extremely liberating. Like, I literally had a climbing rack and a bag in my car. I had a futon mattress in the back of my Toyota 4Runner that had 400,000 miles on it. Like, I had a surfboard on top. Like, I just— that was it. And then I started making little bits of money doing bookkeeping stuff that, like, kept the gas tank full and, you know, kept groceries in the truck. And, you know, I had— I made— I was making friends throughout. So I'd like do, do a little couch surfing. I'd do some house sitting, you know, those kinds of things. Like I was building relationships, making friends, like doing, doing stuff. It just—
the, the contrast is so wild though from, you know, this point that you just took us through. You were like, money's never gonna be, you know, my master. I, I'm gonna make sure I never end up like my dad. Yeah. Right. And then all of a sudden you take that to a completely different extreme of money won't control me. I'm just not going to have any, right?
Well, and totally, dude. I mean, it's funny because even now, like, even where I'm at now with a business that's doing well, like a couple of kids, a wife, like all of the, all the things that most people do, you know, right out of college and do really quickly, like I now have all those things, but still, like, even and And I support people who feel differently, obviously, about money because we have clients all over the spectrum with money relationships. But like, for me, like the whole reason to have money and to continue accumulating it is so that I don't have to think about it. It's the whole— that's the whole game is just that I never have to worry or think about— I watch my dad worry and think about it and grip to it and then get totally devastated by it. It's like there are instruments and strategies and all kinds of stuff that you can do that just, you just never have to think about it. And like, there are things that I don't have to think about now with the current amount of resource and income that I have that I used to have to think about a lot. And there are things that I'm also excited about continuing to solve for in the future that I'm currently thinking about that I don't want to, right? You know, one of my other favorite kind of like mental models to, to talk about or build for people is like the amount of money or resource that you have is directly related to how you experience time. Like when you have no money, you think moment to moment, day to day, week to week. You have to, because every decision, you don't know where the next dollar is going to come from that's going to put food on the table for your kids or for your family or even for yourself. But as that start— as that resource amount starts to expand, it's like, oh, maybe now we can start looking at things on a monthly basis. Maybe we're going to plan yearly, like tax strategy, right? And we're going to think about our W-2 and how much we're putting away for our retirement, for our kids. It's like, okay, now we've left the year and now we're looking at like our kids going to college in 15 years, right? And then you think about like the wealthiest people that we know and that come, that are in some of the circles that we're in, like, dude, they think about generations. Some of the wealthiest, wealthiest people in the world think about like existential, like human survival, right? Like it's crazy. Like your concept or like your structure of, and like, and that, that kind of like mindset or that like mapping, it like changes how you interact with your world on a day-to-day basis. And that's been one of the most fascinating concepts for me. Ever. It's just everybody's somewhere different on that spectrum and how much that changes the way their brain works.
This period of your life where you go live in your truck, right, is sort of the ultimate non-attachment to money. It's like, let's, let's go see if I can really survive this way. I imagine what you get on the backside of that is an incredible amount of resourcefulness. Like, how does that play into your entrepreneurial endeavors now?
Dude, resourcefulness. And, and I would say like, just like long-lasting perspective. Like there are— like I was having this conversation with somebody in Cabo just recently. Like when I really get to zoom out and I'm not like in, in my— in the trenches, like working on something or dealing with a specific problem or something like that, when I really take a step back, which those big events really do for me in a really positive way, It's like I've already, I've already made it. Whatever. Everyone's got a different definition of like made it right. But like, we are in a beautiful house in a really nice neighborhood in Fort Collins, Colorado. My, we're paying for my son to go to preschool. My wife isn't bringing in that much income other than the random photography things that she's doing when she feels like it and wants to. Like, we also have additional support from a babysitter for our daughter who's younger than preschool age. Like, Dude, I made it. Like, I have arrived now. And that doesn't mean that I don't still have goals and dreams and desires, but like that, I think again, I will get back to your question about resourcefulness, but like the perspective both from where I grew up and how I like what I saw and learned there with my dad. And then also, yeah, being in California and it was like we humans are very resilient and need very, very little. Like we've, we've got, we've all got stories, not just about money, but about like what it means to be, to be living a meaningful or good life, a productive life, a good life, uh, whatever, however you want to call it. Um, and all of that has ripple effects into what you think you need. And like, the word need is also really interesting because everyone defines it differently. Um, but man, like, yeah, I mean, resourcefulness in the sense, I guess, that like, I just, I, I always, I always have, I, it does feel more, it's hard to answer the resourceful question because I always, it does actually feel more like perspective. It's like, I always had what I needed. Like there was never a moment where my car didn't have gas or I didn't have like a single bag of groceries in the front seat. Like my bed was in the back. The weather's always nice in Southern California. I never was like cold or worried about it. Like, yeah.
And was there ever a moment when you decided that you were done with the dirtbag life, or was it just kind of a slow, gradual build? You can you know, you started taking on these bookkeeping jobs, you kind of just transitioned out naturally, or was there— was there another line in the sand?
It was— it was twofold. So actually, the answer is it was both. Um, there was a slow— there was a slow crawl out. Basically, the reason it was 3 years is because when I drove to California, I actually took— it was my— the first half of the trip was with my sister because she was 4 years younger than me. She went to high school. I graduated Virginia Tech when she graduated high school about the same time. So I drove and dropped her off at CU Boulder on my way to California. And so she did— she finished in 3 years, didn't do a full 4th year. Again, I think probably because of the money thing, right? She just knew she could get through it more quickly and not cost, you know, not have to take all the money out of the reverse mortgage, like, right? Um, so she basically was calling and starting to talk to me about like, hey, I want to move to California and like You know, do the thing with my big brother for a little while. And I was like, well, we're going to have to get a place together. Like, you can't just come move in with me because I don't live anywhere. So at that point it was like, okay, now that's a little bit of like additional expense requirement. So like, you know, talk to the CPA that I'd working with, kind of give him some ideas. He's like, cool. Yeah. Like we got more projects. So just, it was very much like, it felt fairly like seamless and easy just because I had these good relationships. Built where like I could, I could tap. That's where I guess the resourcefulness is not— the resourcefulness really came from building relationships because I think that like when you don't have resource like that or resource in any capacity or control over your situation or your environment, the, the resource that I did have was really great strong relationships, like people who would let me sleep on their couch and this guy, the CPA that I worked with, who I still have— we still do a lot of the books for the clients he does tax work for. Like, you know, 12 years later now, like, we have a great relationship. And so I think that's where the resourcefulness came in, is like I learned a ton about how important having good strong relationships where like you don't over, over ask or over need from anyone, but then when it comes down to it and you actually really do, people are there for you. Like people have got you, right? And I think that's something I learned a lot from growing up. And like that came with me from growing up in the South, like in kind of rural Appalachia. But anyway, so, you know, just had a couple conversations with him and he's like, hey man, like if you want to do more than the bookkeeping and you want to come in on an hourly basis and help me out during tax season and start prepping tax returns with me, like that would also be a big help. I was like, great, okay, I'll work a little bit more than I'm currently working and I'll have enough money where I can split rent with my sister when she gets here and she'll get a job and figure it out. So I floated us for the first couple months and then And then she got a job and figured it out. And, um, so I'd say that was like maybe— excuse me— maybe version number one. And then during that, I was like, oh, this accounting thing, like, you know, not that I wanted to do tax, but I was like, if I want to keep being this version of a person, this like, you know, dirtbag— I, I didn't, I didn't full— I didn't shed all of the things that come with being a dirtbag. Like, I still have a lot of those, those qualities of myself, as you know, and a lot of people know. But I was like, if I'm going to do that and eventually be a financial professional and get back around to this thing that I, you know, really kind of withdrew from, from my experience in D.C. and all of that, like, you know, some letters behind my name would probably help because I'm not going to get rid of my ponytail at this point. Probably not going to start taking showers. Some of the things that, like, you just don't expect from a traditional accountant or CPA. So I just felt like that was an important thing to do. I had all the resources. I had the hours working with the CPA in California, taking the exams and studying for them weren't that, that much more difficult. Now that I had an apartment, it was easy to create a space to actually like study and, you know, be more intentional about that and had obviously plenty of time to, to study and take those exams. And so it just became this kind of like incremental knowing. And then I'd say that the real shift was when I met Meg, my wife. Um, and wives don't like dirtbags.
They're not necessarily signing up for dirtbag life, dude.
Wives, wives are not signing up for dirt. Girlfriends love dirtbags. Girlfriends love dirtbags. Like, if it's a short trip, which is, you know, I won't go super far down that rabbit hole, but like when I met Meg, I was just a— I was just a fun toy, like in the beginning. And even after I knew, I was like, oh, this is a forever— this is forever. Like, I was like maybe 3 weeks in and I was like, I know that we're— I'm like out of the game. I'm done. And she was like, yeah, yeah, no, I'm going to put you back in the pond and go back to fishing. And I was like, okay, cool, whatever, whatever you, whatever you think. And because partly because I was a young dirtbag, like, that's just who I was. But something inside of me, it has had nothing— she loved the dirtbag part of me because again, I was probably just a toy at that point. But something shifted and it was not because it feels important to say, like, full disclaimer of like, it had nothing to do with her putting any pressure on me or making me feel like I needed to be a different version to be her partner or anything like that. Like, none whatsoever. She loved every part of me for who I was from the get-go. And something just shifted inside of me. Like, I was like, I'm ready to do something serious and real. And like, with, with my, like, with my contribution to this, this world and this, like, greater community. Um, because before that I had just been exploring and learning about myself. And it was like, I've learned enough and I now am making a commitment to my partner like myself and therefore also my partner, that I am ready to like take on some, take on some different, different shit. It's so interesting.
I want to go back to something you said of like, you know, you've made it.
Hmm.
When did you know?
Well, also, before I answer that, kind of caveat to that is like, I don't, I don't know that or hold that 100% of the time. Right. Like, when, when in this conversation, it's easy to, to remember because we're zooming all the way out, right? Um, in, in Cabo, when we're with our, when we're with our people and like we're all doing the full zoom out thing, like easiest perspective in the world to keep. But when I'm dealing with employee issues, clients are leaving, we got cash flow holes, like the, the normal entrepreneur stuff, I don't feel that. I'm like, this has not made it. Like this sucks, this is hard, and I need to solve for that and get to a different place.
So I say that just to kind of, you know, I think that's a really critical perspective because I think so often we think that there's some magical finish line and then we're never going to be in pain anymore. You know, I had that version when I sold my company. I was like, oh, I've done it. Yeah. And it turns out I was just getting started. Yeah.
No more suffering.
Yeah, ever again. Ever again. But made it as a perspective. You know, I think there are so many of us as founders that wouldn't know made it if it hit us over the head because we're so zoomed into more and growing. And, you know, it's easy to get lost in the problems of scaling a company.
Yep.
Right. And so how do you balance that perspective? Like when you're in it, how do you zoom back out?
Yeah. Well, it's— I mean, dude, to your point, like, it's, it's relative, right? Like, making it is, is a relative. It's a, it's a generally relative statement. Like, I've made it when I, when I am able to zoom all the way out. The reason that zooming out is an important part of that process is because what I mean is I've made it relative to how I grew up, right? Like, there's more to that sentence, right? It's like I made it relative to what I thought was possible. When I was a child or when I was in college or what, like I have made it so much further than any of those previous times. If I, if I look that far back.
Yeah. Living in a van down by the river.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But if I look 6 months ago or 1 year ago, I haven't made anything. I've made very little progress relative to that, like, period of time. That's again, not to get like too existential, but that like time expansion contraction of how we like actually view and experience time. Like, I think that's an important piece of it, of like those zoom outs. So I think those are my tools. Like when I'm in, when I'm in Fort Collins and I'm in my daily routine life with two young kids and the business and all the daily and weekly problems that come up in the business and those kinds of things, like I don't generally feel like I've made it. So I then schedule or structure these like bigger, like, you know, we go a couple of times a year, we go on these big adventure trips together, which a couple of times a year we go to these big events with couple hundred people and like, we're happy. These are the zoom outs that I need to like properly schedule because there's a lead up on the front end that I think is positive, like emotionally positive. And then there's the kind of like, like tail end as well that's also emotionally positive. And if they're properly spaced throughout a given year or period of time, like that really is what I think that's— that feels like that nice kind of ebb and flow. Because if I stay with that perspective all the time, then I don't— it like the other side of that coin is that I don't take any real kind of like fervor, gusto, or energy into my business to continue building it, which I do have long-term goals to do, right? Like, that won't happen if I'm constantly like, I'm good, I made it, like, let's just keep reducing the amount of hours I have to spend. It's like, no, no, I do, I do want to keep building and growing, both for what it will create in terms of resource, but also just because of what it's teaching me, the things that I'm like building for my family and also for my clients and the community that I serve. But also, like, I care a ton about our team and how, like, you know, we won't— we don't have to get into this side of it, but like, I, like, I'm, I'm so frustrated by what's happened over the last 50 to 70 years in financial services, right? Like, just the way that you're expected to work and what that does to the rest of your life is really just kind of ridiculous to me. Um, so anyway, all that to say, like, I think that those, those bigger, those bigger zoom outs, those bigger trips, whether they're like with our, with our community, whether they're with my wife or whatever they are, like, just have to do that, that step back and that separation.
I mean, I think, I think what you're really hitting at here is the ability to hold paradox. Uh, and I think this is one of the most— two things can be true, right? Like, this is one of the most critical skills for, for any entrepreneur because You know, on one hand, you're living your dream life like you're doing it right. You've got the beautiful family, the house. Like, it's totally— it's all working out.
Yeah.
And you have big goals, right? And I think the trap, the entrepreneurial trap, is thinking only one of those matters, right? Is focusing only on the big goals. And it's this nuance, this inhabiting of paradox where you go, I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.
Yep.
And I still want to grow, but instead of that dirty push, you know, of I've got to grow at all costs, there's a more positive spin that you can, that you can take of like, I get to grow.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
How do you think about holding that paradox? Like, like, like what does that look like in your life?
Yeah, it's funny, man. Makes me think of something that I brought up kind of in our, in our Baby Bathwater community. Maybe, maybe a couple of years. It might have been 2 full years ago, maybe a little bit less, but um, it was a post I put in the app to start a conversation about how, um, and, and pull me back if I'm deviating too far, but send it, brother. Yeah, the, uh, the idea that like if I— let's say I got a job as an account— like I'm a CPA, I got a job making $150,000 a year, I was working at a Big Four accounting firm. If the requirement for my job was to travel 4 times a year for a week at a time to be with clients or whatever it was, that would not be a difficult thing with— within like the structure of my family, right? Like to, to get the money that I have agreed to receive for what I'm trading is— that's a part of the equation, right? Entrepreneurs don't have that. And so every time we choose to leave, it's a— every time, every time you leave, it's a choice right now. And then you— and then every time you're back with the wrestling match of, is the value— not just business value or ROI, but like, every time I leave, is the value that I'm— that is being created by my, my leaving worth the cost at, at home or whatever of me going? Emotional, mental, spiritual, monetary, whatever, all the things, right? And so it just— it's this interesting thing that I thought was important to bring up in the entrepreneur community because You know, maybe those things lead to business that ends up taking care of things that you wouldn't— would have had to solve for. But you can't— like, you can't do the cost-benefit analysis of that equation, right? So like, I don't know, I don't think that answers your question, but like, it's a— that's my— that's kind of my version of the paradox at this point of like, two things are true. Like, I want to be— I love my kids and the age and stage that they're at, and I love being with my wife as many minutes of every day as I possibly can. but I also have other shit that I, that I need for my whole being. And that means making the hard decision in one place to do it. Right. Like, I think it's, it, so I guess what I'm feeling or saying is that like that paradox exists in, in, in my mind, like in almost all of the areas of our lives. Right. Like I do, like maybe one other way is to say like, to have the opportunity for this to be a problem is like, is a blessing.
It's an immense privilege. And so shifting gears just a little bit, right? Like you're in the back end of a lot of businesses as a bookkeeper and accountant. Sure am. How do you see this, this broader money story playing out across the way entrepreneurs relate to money and seeing so many businesses?
Dude, man, Oh, so many, so many places to go from, from that, from that question. I was just taking, taking a beat to let it like fully, fully settle into me. Um, the, I mean, dude, every, every single per— like we, let's say we have, you know, around 100 clients, every single person, like these businesses are just as unique as the people who own them, right? Like when you get to bigger business, everything gets standardized. You've got GAAP accounting report, like reporting requirements. You got like, you know, everything, everything after operations has been solved for becomes an investing and financing activity. Like it really just becomes about dollars, becomes about debt and leverage and investments at some point. That's business at a certain level. None of these businesses have anything like that. And like you see the ripple effect throughout their operations throughout about like throughout their current accounting systems, like literally everything has to do, like it comes from, and I think that's why as like a 100% extrovert, fairly, what I would, again, not to toot my own horn, but like emotionally intelligent human, like that's where I connect with entrepreneurs the most that make them excited about working with, with Hum, um, is because of that piece, not the, not the like, oh, we can do the numbers the best way. Right. And I think, like, let me give a few examples, right? So like, you know, you know that we worked with, with Seth and FPC in a partnership throughout 2025. And I think one of the really wild things to learn through that process was that specifically for functional medicine doctors, like, they are entrepreneurs just like the rest of us, but they are also still practitioners. So like, you end up with these, these, these individuals who are trying to figure out how in 4— they can practice medicine in 4.5 days a week and then run a 7-figure business in half a day a week. That's tough, right? And then, and then you see the ripple effect of that, of like the frustration with how their teams are functioning, the frustration with how much money they do or don't have, or their understanding of where it's going or what's happening to it. Like all of these, like downstream ripple effects that take hold on the entire business infrastructure or ecosystem. But that's just, that's just one example. And they don't want to stop practicing. It's like in some, they're, they're interesting cases for entrepreneurs because they, they didn't really necessarily choose the entrepreneurial journey like maybe an e-commerce founder or like you or I did, right? Like they were forced into it because they didn't want to take insurance anymore. Right, right.
So, you know, that just, that just being one example, like it's, well, I'll give you another great example, which is, um, if you're listening to this podcast, you know, my— I've built a career in the second half of my life on understanding my relationship to money. So you might think that guy is dialed. But also one of my definitions of how much money is enough is so I don't have to worry about it, which, you know, is really cool. And I've built a life where that's mostly true. But the shadow side of that, as it comes out, is like, I'm probably your most avoidant client. Like, I'm going to ignore your bookkeeper's emails until it becomes an actual problem in my life. Because responding to those, no matter how much work I do, no matter how much therapy I've done around my money story, responding to bookkeeping emails feels like worrying about money for me. And it's a daily ongoing struggle, right? And so my personal relationship with money that I'm still healing— and that's one of the reasons why I have this podcast— is that it manifests as avoidance in my business. And you've got 100 clients playing out some version of their money story, and you get to see all of that happening real time.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting because it's been absolutely the most difficult thing for us to solve for that I don't think has been even a topic of conversation in most traditional accounting firms or financial services firms is like, I want to be able to do— I want to be able to solve for the Mike Browns. Like, I want to be able to solve for like our service is Like maybe it's— maybe you have to pay a premium, which most people in your— like, we've got other people just like you and they're like, oh yeah, I'll pay the premium so that you don't have to— so I don't have to touch it or think about it or worry about it. All the way to the other end where people are like, no, this is important to my mental and emotional health to be this dialed in and understanding and have someone to call on and talk to and, and do that proactively. Yeah, man, it's, it's unbelievably difficult because everyone is— everyone's their own edge case. Like there is no standard, there's no standard formula. Risk tolerance, I think, is a big one that I get a lot of insight into, um, from across all of our clients and how that man— how that risk tolerance manifests in the way that their teams are structured, the way that they, uh, their relationship with their team, the relationship with their vendors or service providers and how like that, that kind of like, you know, let's call it like that slightly tighter grip on financial anything can really, really— it just ripples everywhere. It ripples into everything about how they've built their business, how they connect with or interact with every person in their business that somehow connects to money or the flow of money. Because you've got the people who don't have a whole lot of runway but will send it through the roof because they just trust that everything is going to work out. And I like You know, it's funny, I think I tend more to that side. And, you know, it's nice having an actual romantic partner like my wife who has created some more balance in our, our life, which has been beneficial to our business and my business. And then you've got people on the other end of the spectrum that it doesn't matter. Like we can't get them to put money even in the market because they're like, nope, staying in cash, not going to do it. And there's, you know, a bunch in there and we're not going to do anything with it because we're not putting any of it at risk. It's wild. Like, like I said, like not just the businesses themselves and how they're structured, but the ripple effect of that on their lives and their relationships and all the people are that all of those things are just as unique as the individuals.
Like there's no particular single money story that ties people together. But, you know, there's flavors, right? There's the high-risk, high-reward mindset, which I'm a little familiar with, right? All the way to that other end of the spectrum of like shove it under the mattress.
Yep.
And, you know, it's just— it's wild for me because we have similar perspectives into people's finances, seeing how this situation, like, you know, your dad watching him pull away, caused you to become financially educated, right?
Yeah.
The people's personal relationship with money shows up in their business everywhere.
Literally everywhere. Yeah. I'd say one of the, you know, that— I mean, you know, even within the people that we work with, actually, our, you know, our, our ICPs avatars are slightly different, obviously, but within the entrepreneur community, one of the things that I find super fascinating is that you do, there are people, the spectrum of high risk to low risk exists within that ecosystem, but it, we're still like of the top 5% of all humans in terms of risk profile, right? Because we've gone out to start businesses in the first place. Um, which is a pretty interesting fact, but one of the things that I find fascinating is that the— I think it's necessary to the entrepreneurial journey that the confidence in your own ability and what you can produce and the return on that production, um, are higher than anywhere else. But I think one of the things that can often kind of like, I think again, it's kind of the time, the time perspective is that you can lose The idea that the, we're not going to want, we're not going to want to hold on to this exact business or this version of the business forever. And so what I find people not doing that I'm constantly trying to talk to people about is like, I know that your art, that you believe that your ROI within your own business is better and that every dollar you take, you're trying to double back down into your business because of that potential ROI. But if you don't, like, as you grow and your business becomes larger and more complex, if you don't start taking chips off the table and diversifying in some kind— it doesn't— you don't have to do the like, oh yeah, I got a stocks and bonds portfolio, but like you have to diversify in some way, or that risk— you're starting to even out— like outpace that what I would call like a healthy amount of risk, even for your personality type, right? I'm not saying there's an objectively healthy type of risk or amount of risk. I'm just saying that like for you, that starts to get pushed. And one of the places we see that is people stop making decisions, right? Like they, they don't have the right data in their businesses and they start, they like hit this glass ceiling where like they kind of stall out and they don't really understand why. And it's like, well, you're, you're about to make decisions that you don't have the right data for and they're going to create more risk than you've ever created before in your business, whether it's a dollar amount or, or a number of people amount or clients relationship, whatever it is like you're, You're, you're just— your body's, your body's not going to let you do that. And that's been a really interesting thing to try to like help people kind of sort through as we've watched them hit those ceilings and then help them try to figure out how to, you know, break through it.
What do you tell somebody like that? Like if you see somebody with all of their chips in the business bumping up against this natural growth ceiling and they're about to go for it and take on a risk that they may not understand, How do you talk them off the ledge or what do you do in that situation?
I think, I think I try to, without doing any like really heavy lifting as far as like technical work-wise, I try to help them do the thought experiment of like the most likely potential outcomes. Because if we run, if together we run all the way down the rabbit hole in the most likely scenarios and you're still okay with all of them coming from, from the most likely most conservative, like worst-case scenario— there's not that all three of those are the same— all the way to like, this would be the most ideal outcome for this. If you've run down the gamut and you still do it, great, dude, it's your life. Like, do the thing, do the thing. Um, but what people are, I think, looking— like, what I want to provide to people, not just within our client base but my friends and my community, and then specifically within our clients, what people are actually paying for us to do is help them not make the decisions, but give them the information and/or confidence to make those types of decisions. So I think the thought experiment is super, super helpful and valuable. And yeah, I had another thought, but it's escaped me.
As we start to wrap up, this is, this is so fascinating. I'm sure we could jam on out on this for hours, but based on everything that you've seen from from clients and in your own personal journey. What does wealth mean to you now and what makes a rich life for you?
Wealth to me means waking up every single day with the full autonomy to choose exactly what is the most meaningful and impactful for me to be able to do that day. And that is across all of the aspects of my life. Like, I really do like what I'm working on and building within my business. Like, I enjoy it. It's fun. I'm not doing it just because it will create resource that then becomes a medium for other experiences and things that I can accumulate in my life. I actually enjoy it. And I like, I don't think that there's a number of dollars where I would stop doing the things that we call work, right? I like building stuff. I have like a very, my dad was an engineer, like I have a very like engineer's tinkerer kind of mind. The wealth— like, I guess using that word— like, the, the richness of my relationship with my kids. Because I've intentionally chosen not to work as much as I could have while they're like preschool age, basically. Like, my kids are 2 and 4 and a half. Like, Ollie's gonna go to kindergarten in, in the fall, and Scotty will be 2 years behind him. And so like, I can see a reality where like, I work more at that point, but I've really focused on making sure that we are comfortable and stable as a family, but not at the detriment of really any minutes possible for spending time with them and, and my wife and just having this like container. So I think, I think the answer is that it changed. Like, I guess the first answer I gave was objective, but that right now that's my, that's my current version is like I know that even the goals that I have for building the business and growing all those things. Like, I'm not moving at a pace that I, you know, when I'm in the hole, I'm like comfortable with necessarily. But it was, it was a choice. Like, I'm no victim to any situation. Like, I, I chose that and I choose it every day to like prioritize those things because of the, the season or the chapter of life that I'm currently in.
A really beautiful perspective is when the walls start to close in and you feel the pressure to, to build and grind, you can pop out and go, wait a minute, what are we really doing here? What am I doing all this for? Totally right. And yes, meaningful work is really cool, but being with your toddlers is cooler.
So cool. And I can make money anytime into the future as far as things stay similar to the way they are now. Um, but man, I'm never gonna get any of those days back.
Yeah, I love that. If you could leave our listeners who are typically similar to us, maybe they're running a 7-figure business, 8-figure business, what would you tell them about money that maybe you wish you knew when you were starting out or that you see as a common pitfall?
Do the longest version of the thought experiment that you possibly can to figure out how much you think you need, because I can almost guarantee you that it's— what you think right now is way more than if you did the full thought experiment all the way to making a spreadsheet and putting all the things on it and then total it up at the bottom. Like, what you think you need for the life that you want is most likely orders of magnitude bigger than what it actually is if you go all the way down the rabbit hole. And like put the details and the pieces in place to build the life that you want. Like, don't, don't think about it like, I need $30 million. Think about like, what do you need every week? What do you need every month? Like, what are the thing? And, and what is that?
What—
and not just how much, because you just pick a dollar amount, it's still totally arbitrary whether it's $30 million or it's $3,000 a week. Like, it doesn't matter. But what are those $3,000 doing? Like, what, what are you do— like, Take the time, go down the rabbit hole, work that equation, and then work backwards from that equation once you've got it defined. But if you just like threw a number out there because of what everyone on Instagram is telling you and what you've seen your community or people around you doing, or what— like, it's all bullshit. Like, everybody's doing it for different reasons. Like, go do the thought experiment and do it in a silo. Do it by yourself. And I bet you'll be very, very surprised.
Yeah, I mean, this is, uh, this is a subject near and dear to my heart, uh, because one of the fundamental things I try to do in my work is help people answer the question of how much is enough. And, and my experience overlaps completely with what you just said, is that, you know, people who are in the position of working with me, they're typically high earners, right? But when we run this thought experiment, they're either at are within striking distance of already having enough to live the life they want to live. Totally right. And now you get to back into bigger questions of like, okay, what are we really doing here? If I've already met this threshold, by the way, we're not the kind of people that just give up and ride off into the sunset typically. But what am I doing here and how can I start to shift things so that I'm actually increasing my, my life?
Yep.
You know, and the impact in my life rather than just scaling for more.
100%.
Hunter, what a pleasure. Thank you for coming on. If people want to get in touch, where can they find you? Where can they learn more about, about Hum and what you're doing?
Yeah, humaccounting.com or just hunter@humaccounting.com will get me. If you, if you need me, I can give you my info too. And yeah, yeah.
Love it, man. Well, thanks so much for being on. Thanks for sharing your story.
This has been a pleasure, man.
I love your little dirtbag heart, so I appreciate it.
It's not going anywhere. It's not going anywhere. I'm going to raise it into my children. Awesome, man.
