I Won’t Trade Time for Money Ever Again – Here’s Why (Shane Fuhrman)

I was miserable working 6.5 days a week, most days going in somewhat early, staying till 11, going home, eating a snack, working until 2 AM, sleeping a few hours, going back to work. I did that for almost 7 years. I felt unhealthy in my 20s. I had no time for anything else. I'm just trading all of my time for money.

Shane Fuhrman is a former corporate finance attorney who left the corporate world for the mountains, settling in Silverton, Colorado. He became a real estate developer, hospitality entrepreneur, and co-owner of the Wyman Hotel, later serving as the town's mayor in 2020, a role that brought both recognition and controversy.

What was the biggest challenge you faced as mayor?

You know, 1,000 emails a day of death threats. I would get flipped off multiple times a day walking through town. I started driving everywhere in a 0.8 square mile town.

What was that like for you?

It was traumatic.

Were you interested in law at all?

I wanted to do business. I'd always felt entrepreneurial, but I I didn't have any mentors in the space. The fastest way that was to go to law school and get a job, which at the time was paying six figures. Seeing my bank account fill up, paying for the things that I'd always wanted, I thought.

And what was the cost personally? Were you aware that you were kind of sacrificing yourself on this altar?

It was actually a little different than I think what you might expect. I made a commitment to myself when I quit my law job that I wouldn't trade time for money ever again, and that I wanted to build something that I was passionate about. I learned a very valuable lesson through that, and I now—

What advice would you give someone who is, you know, hearing you talk about this right now? Welcome to Money Stories, where we have conversations with founders about money, meaning, and what makes a truly rich life. Today I am joined joined by one of my favorite humans, a dear friend, Shane Fuhrman, former corporate finance attorney, pulled the plug on that career and then moved to a ski town and became a real estate developer. I'm really excited for this conversation. Welcome to the show, Shane.

It's great to be here. It's been fun to watch the development of the podcast and I'm so excited to be a part of it.

Yeah, thank you. Well, I really appreciate your support along the way. Let's start at the beginning. How did you grow up with money and how did that drive you to become successful?

Sure. I grew up between Evergreen, Colorado, and Portland, Oregon, and I was really fortunate that my parents finagled a way for me to be in private school in both locations where I really thrived in that environment. But I came in not as one of the wealthy kids. But all of my friends and all of the things that I saw growing up was through the lens of what my friends had and could do. I was often included in some extravagant experiences, not with my family. And then I'd go home and we had a really nice family life. My parents were amazing and supportive and loving. My sister was wonderful, is wonderful. And, uh, and I still would always view that as having all the things I needed at home, but then seeing all these really crazy things outside of home. Going on a trip to Lake Powell on a super expensive houseboat with the ski boat and 4 jet skis in high school, being flown there on my friend's dad's plane, going to extravagant dinners where people dropped their credit card like it was nothing relative to the experience of like my dad looking at the menu and seeing his body language change if I ordered something expensive. So it was always something where I saw it as a way to relieve tension from the family environment, how to feel taken care of. And when we did have money or did things that took a lot of money, I saw the enjoyment that my family got out of it, and I felt the enjoyment that I experienced when I went on those other experiences. And so I, as a kid, I just had this lens of money solves problems, money creates happiness. And so it set a very strong drive in me to strive for money early.

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like, you know, really there was an acute contrast to how your family lived versus the environment you were immersed in.

Absolutely. And, and what's interesting is it's not as if we were poor. I didn't grow up in a, in a house where we were wanting in any major way. But I did see what wealth looked like. Yeah.

And that can be a really powerful motivator.

Yeah. And something that I also look back at now is that none of those— most of my friends didn't have great family environments. There was a lot of tension despite there being money, but I only participated in those peak moments.

Totally right.

Yeah.

There's, there's almost an idolization of, oh, well, if, if we just have money, then we're not going to have these other problems.

Yeah, absolutely. Even to the point where I really went after things early that had that feeling of status or money. When I was in high school, the girl that I was dating my freshman year, her dad was one of those people that had a lot of money. He was in oil and gas. He had an RS America Porsche and maybe the third week of us dating, we were hanging out in the hot tub at her house and he came home one night and I said, you know, hey, any chance if I'm still dating your daughter, can I drive that Porsche to prom my senior year? And he said, I'll make you a deal. If you're not dating my daughter, you can drive that Porsche to prom. Which was really funny. She took the joke well. Turns out I wasn't dating his daughter my senior year. We were still really good friends. I didn't remember that clearly. A week before prom, we were over at her house because that was the friend group hangout spot, and he tossed me the keys and said, bring it back after prom. And so I ended up having the Porsche for 2 weeks, and that was an amazing experience and also solidified my idea that I had to get this myself.

Yeah. So your, your, your drive for the finer things was really solidified early on.

Yes.

And where does that take you?

Well, I took a little detour pursuing music in college and having a good time and becoming an adult without really thinking too much about money because all of my needs were met during college. But as soon as college ended, I was like, okay, now's, now's when this happens. And I applied for hundreds of jobs. And this was still in the era where you would mail out resumes. And I mailed out hundreds, if not thousands of resumes, and I didn't hear anything. Full crickets. And so I decided I would go do the one thing that I could do by taking a standardized exam, which I thought I could do pretty well on, which is the LSAT, and go to law school for the sole purpose of getting a job that paid well.

Were you interested in law at all, or was just— no, that's just the path.

No, it was just the path. It was, you know, I wanted to do business. I'd always felt entrepreneurial, but I didn't have any mentors in the space. I didn't know how to create something myself. And so the fastest way that I could transition from a liberal arts degree with a pretty mediocre GPA to where I thought I wanted to be was to go to law school and get a job, which at the time was paying six figures. Totally.

So you go to law school, uh, you—

I applied myself. I got on law review. I was in the top part of my class and landed one of those big law jobs, uh, for a summer associate position, full extravagance in Manhattan, a lot of big paycheck, the most money I'd ever seen myself. Uh, got that job out of law school and dove headfirst into the billable hour framework. Working 6.5 days a week, most days going in somewhat early, staying till 11, going home, eating a snack, working until 2 a.m., sleeping a few hours, going back to work. I did that for almost 7 years.

I mean, you were the classic big law firm Manhattan cliché.

Yes.

Hook, line and sinker.

Absolutely. And I was miserable. I felt unhealthy in my 20s. I had no time for anything else. I put all of my hobbies aside. I was in— I was married. That was not going terribly well because I was never there. And when I was there, I wasn't present. Despite seeing my bank account fill up, paying for the things that I'd always wanted, I thought, and, and just trading all of my time for money.

Yeah. And let's go one layer deeper if you like. What was the cost personally? Were you aware that you were kind of sacrificing yourself on this altar, or was that an instant realization or a slower realization?

That's a great question. The— I mean, it's the classic golden handcuffs idea where the further I got, the more pigeonholed I felt, and the closer I got to seeing what felt like it could be a reward. Partners at my firm first year were making 7 figures, and I was only a few years away from that. And I thought, oh, if I could just hang on to that, or until then, I'll make it. But then as I got closer, I had peers and friends that were making that transition into partnership, and their lives did not look any better despite their income going up. And I started to become really aware of what I was trading and being more aware of how much time was being sunk into this with only cash coming out of it. And what's the point of having a massive bank account if you don't get to spend it until you're, you know, broken both emotionally and physically? Yeah.

And so what was the experience like though of, you know, making that money for the first time? Was it, was it enjoyable at all or were you just working so hard you, you couldn't even look up and enjoy it?

I mean, as you'd expect, like each time I'd get a paycheck or a bonus, there's that endorphin hit for a few minutes and thinking about how you might spend it. But then you look at the reality of what time you have and what you can spend it on. And especially in New York where I was, the idea was like, oh, maybe I can buy a nice house. But in New York, a nice house is, you know, $2 million as a starter. So even that I was still years away from affording despite seeing more money than I had anticipated seeing. And so I just didn't have, I did, I never got to a point in that where there felt like a balance. And looking back at it, I know that even if I had gotten to that point, it wouldn't have been fulfilling.

So what was the breaking point?

So I was on my way to work in August. It was very hot and raining very hard. And I live by Washington Square Park. I'd get on at West 4th and I'd get off at 42nd and Lex, and it's only 4 stops, but I get on the subway. It's one of those days where it's just wall-to-wall people. You squeeze in barely. It was so tight that I didn't even have the ability to hold on to anything. I'm just squished into the subway. And there's this— and I remember this like incredibly clearly. This is a— this is a peak transition moment for me where this massive man is squished over me and we're both soaking wet and his nose is dripping sweat into my ear. And we're both— we're making eye contact and we're both like trying to move just enough to make it stop because he can see what's happening and he feels bad. and I'm like this, and my ear's like filling up with liquid. It's so gross. And through, and this is like a few minutes of this happening. And then finally the doors open for my stop and I have this just like absolutely crystal clear realization that I would rather stay here in this moment indefinitely rather than go to work because I didn't wanna do it that badly. So I did get off the subway. And I went straight into the partner's office who I worked with most closely. And I looked at him and I said, if you could be anywhere, anytime doing anything, what would you be doing? And he lights up and he says, I would be right here at my desk working on a super meaty deal. And I was like, and it was what I expected. The reason I went to that firm is that people were super passionate and incredibly talented. And I said, yeah, I'm here for the paycheck. I don't think I should be here anymore. And he kind of sits back and takes a minute and he's like, you know, you're crushing it, but I agree with you. If that's why you're here, you gotta go and let me know how I can help you. And that was awesome. So I left and started this new journey.

I mean, what strikes me in that is that he didn't try to convince you. That, like, what a gift to just go, hey, you know what? This ain't it. If you don't love this, go on and do something else. How did you feel in that moment hearing that?

Lighter. Immensely lighter. I had no idea what I was going to do next. I hadn't made a plan. I hadn't done a budget. I hadn't talked with my wife, but I felt immensely lighter. I felt like part of the reason I stayed was the shame of leaving something so successful that I'd worked so hard for, um, and just kind of throwing it away and starting over. That felt really wasteful up to that moment. And then in that moment, once I committed, I was like, oh, here we go. Like, now, now there's no turning back anyway, but let's figure this next thing out and let's do it right.

So you essentially burned your life down and started over. What is that? Walk me through that.

Oh yeah, not immediately, but that resulted in a divorce and leaving New York and starting something totally from scratch. I had a few baby steps along the way. I had another job for a few months where I supported a tech company and became close with one of the co-founders. It was a super successful tech company. This co-founder was amazing and he'd had, uh, incredible success from nothing. And so getting to spend time with him and understand what his process was like and that it was possible and actually meeting someone live that had been through that gave me the confidence that it's possible, which is all I needed. I didn't need to know that I would be successful and that I could do it. I just needed to know that it could be done. And it's funny because you could see it and hear about it removed, but to see it directly in person with someone that you can talk to and ask questions to is entirely different, or was for me, and gave me a different perspective to take a new approach to how to build my life back.

And what's your thoughts or relationship to money at this point? You had kind of sacrificed everything to get money. You realized that wasn't it. But how was that playing into your decision-making matrix at that point?

Sure. I had a very, very clear idea at that point that money was a tool and not the purpose. Money. Money is what allowed me to take this transition because I had saved some. But I knew that I made a commitment to myself when I quit my law job that I wouldn't trade time for money ever again, and that I wanted to build something that I was passionate about that would take care of me later, hopefully. But that wasn't the point. The point was that I would live in a way that was fulfilling rather than seeking fulfillment from trading time for money.

So where does that lead you?

So I moved to Colorado and started skiing, and I didn't just move to a ski town. I moved to a ski town called Silverton, Colorado, which is at the time was 500 people, super remote, very extreme skiing. And I was like, if I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go really do this. I didn't move to Vail or Breckenridge to kind of do it and ski at a resort. I was like, I'm going to go all in. To everything I do going forward. And that move was part of that. So I ended up in Silverton and started thinking about how can I support my lifestyle now? And I was very intentional in that in-between time from quitting my law job to moving to Silverton about what was important for me from a lifestyle perspective. And I was actually pretty systematic and methodical about it where I made a bunch of lists that I would compare with each other about the qualities of life that mattered to me most, the way that I wanted to be able to spend my time or not spend my time that mattered to me most, the activities and relationships that mattered to me most, and how I could be present for all of that. And everything that I've done since then was checked against that list to make sure that I was in alignment with that and continuing to seek value in the decisions that I made. As they related to that list. And that list isn't, you know, hard and fast. I can reevaluate that and say like, oh, this no longer serves me. I know I'm going to prioritize this other thing. But they were all lifestyle related as opposed to financial goals.

So you land in Silverton, you're skiing 100 days a year, you know, really doing it. And How did you decide to, to support yourself?

Sure. I had an interest in real estate for a very long time before law school even, but that seemed like one of those things that you do once you have a bunch of money. So I kind of forgot about that for a while. But back in this space, having seen someone start something from nothing, I thought I would revisit that interest and I started looking for the biggest small thing that wouldn't get in the way of my ski habit. And it started out with the idea to buy a portfolio of Airbnbs in a place like Silverton and manage those. After doing some business planning, I realized that was a whole lot of work for side hustle type of income, which wasn't actually going to support my ski habit. It was just going to be a big set of obligations. And so I kept increasing the scope and scale of that idea until I landed on a relatively small hotel as something that could afford me the lifestyle that I had committed to, be interesting and fun, and potentially lead to, to more, to more interesting and fun. And there were a lot of components to that that all came together really nicely. I've loved hosting. I loved hospitality on the consumer side. I thought I loved hospitality on the, you know, server and employee side, but I didn't really know. But I thought that this acquisition of this building would create a platform for me to do all of the things that were on my list of important lifestyle qualities.

So you made the decision to go all in and what is, what does that path look like?

Yeah, I, I put together a business plan. I raised money for the first time myself. It was touch and go. I had a really great relationship with the sellers of the building, and so they, they seller financed half and I raised the other half and I was able to get that money pretty quickly. In my excitement and overambitiousness, I started demoing that property to make it the vision that I had right away, rather than running it as it was a fully functional business, which put myself in a, a real no-fall zone where I had to complete the renovation in order to have this valuable asset and to pursue the career that I set in front of myself. And that took about 18 months, but I did succeed at that. And ended up with Wyman Hotel in Silverton, Colorado, which has been open since 2019, and have really found my passion and voice in this space, doing all the things that I really love in ways that don't feel like work and not for the pursuit of money.

But backing up a little bit, I know it was a bit of a bumpy ride What were some of the challenges that you faced in getting the Wyman off the ground?

Well, raising money sucks. So I put no personal capital in myself. I just was able to support myself and not pay myself during the process. But raising money for a pro— any type of startup is hard. And then raising money for a real estate acquisition and hospitality play in a 500-person town that's highly seasonal that's considered a frontier environment is really, really tough. And I ended up being both, I think, lucky and resourceful in finding people that believed in the vision and believed in me and my passion to do this enough to support the project to get it off the ground. But there were— when we met, for example, I was days away from running out of money. I had a contractor bill that was like net 30, and I think I had 3 days left to pay, and it was a pretty sizable chunk of money. And I went to a Baby Bathwater event to kind of talk to people who had been in similar places and just to make sure, you know, I wasn't losing my mind and that like I was on, on a path that worked. And if it did blow up, you know, what that looks like and would I be okay and does it matter?

And what's your stress level like heading into this event? Like what's your stress level with this, this looming payment?

I would say that I had come to a point of acceptance. So I had already peaked in stress and released, and I actually didn't spend most of the event doing anything terribly productive. It was, it was at Powder Mountain and it was a ski event. And I said, you know what, I'm just going to meet a bunch of rad people instead of trying to push this through really hard. And so I just skied all day and talked about where I was at in life and asked questions to people, what they would do in my position, and got some amazing advice and had an epic time. And one of those conversations was with you and your partner Jay, and you guys kind of asked me what What does this look like if it doesn't happen? And I told you what that looked like. And you said, well, you know, what would it look like if we made a small investment? And I was like, well, I would, I would be able to live another day and keep pursuing this thing, which I believe in wholeheartedly. And you guys did come through with that. And I made that payment on time and actually have never had a similar crux moment like that since. Certainly some hard things have happened, but I learned a very valuable lesson through that and I now do a lot better when it comes to planning.

Well, and I didn't even particularly know that that story was going to come out, but I mean, I know there was a lot like you were not paying yourself and you were, you were fully committed to this deal and there were a lot of lean times and, you know, having a front row seat and cheering for you, I think it's really important for people to understand, like, like you were all in and, and even though it was in support of your ski habit and like living this life, like it was stressful.

Yes. And it was, it was actually a little different than I think what you might expect because I was living in alignment with those lifestyle values. And so I, Even after that, I've had a lot of conversations where I, I'm often not wealthy compared to any of the people I'm in the room with, but my lifestyle's ridiculous. And even during that period, I was in the place that I would've gone on vacation. And so even on the most stressful times when I don't know how to solve a problem, whether it's financial or otherwise, I still had the ability to go out and have, you know, a best day ever. Skiing in the backcountry. And so because I wasn't pursuing money, it allowed me to be a lot more clear-headed in those moments because I still was living this like dream lifestyle for myself. And in a lot of those moments since, like whether or not money comes, I'm getting to do all the things I would do even if I had unlimited wealth. Yeah.

And what a, what a cool perspective. You know, it's almost like you truncated the entrepreneurial journey that a lot of the founders are on by going and completely selling your soul to this law career that didn't serve you, saying, okay, I'm not gonna do that. It's like you got the gift of knowing better than to put off your life pretty young.

Yeah. I feel very fortunate that I learned that lesson early, and I see that a lot is actually a very similar— I see people go through the exact same transition I went through after a big exit. And I feel really lucky that I, I was gifted that early and had that moment on the subway early. Because I, I see friends of mine that are, you know, any stage of life, whether it's in their 20s or their 50s, and they have a big exit, and then there's this existential conversation around what do I do next? And what does this money mean? And did I achieve all the things I set out to achieve, and maybe you did in terms of the money that you received, but what does that mean and what are you going to do now? And having spent some time building that framework for myself of what I do now, even though I didn't have a massive exit, it still was a very similar experience. And now when I see other people navigating it, it's like, oh, I've been there. I, I know what you're going through and you'll figure it out probably.

With a little bit of intentionality, which I think is a real key point here is, you know, what a cool way to go about it. Like this list of like skiing's at the top of this list, lifestyle's at the top of this list, and everything else will just kind of shake out the way it shakes out. And again, not to suggest that there was no, you know, plan or vision for building your life. I mean, you're a, an amazing entrepreneur and as we'll get to have built some pretty incredible things along the way, but it was always in service of your life, which I think is, is so cool.

Thank you. Yeah. And what has followed has been really exciting. I, so with the Wyman, I quickly found out that I had actually built myself a new job, you know, a boutique hotel with 15 rooms, 16 now, is, is a tight margin business. And it only worked if I was working. And so I, I quickly, and it worked in terms of lifestyle. I wasn't working 80-hour weeks anymore or more. I was working a pretty reasonable amount, but I had created a new job for myself, which hadn't been my goal. And so I started working on how do we, how do we get to the next phase of this where I unbuild this job for myself? And that was through scale. And so I was able to do it again 2 more times in 2021 where I acquired 2 more properties in a nearby town, Durango, Colorado. And with that scale, I had the ability to hire the people that would be the day-to-day operators, and I was able to move myself even closer to my ultimate goal of passive income with projects that I have input in and responsibility for that are totally aligned with the passions that I have and where I've identified the most value I can provide.

Yeah. And really sort of, you know, nailing the center of that bullseye of, of getting to fund your dream life, but also do work that lights you up. I mean, how cool is that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it, it's funny when I talk about hospitality. When I talk about hospitality, it's hard for me to not light up. I get to think about things that are so nuanced and how people experience things that mean something to me. And I can tell when someone else's eyes are glazing over when I'm talking about the orientation of a chair in a room and how that changes the way people interact. And, you know, I'm this excited about it and other people are like, okay, cool. But I, I, I keep feeling that over and over again that my day-to-day includes a lot of, uh, decisions and pieces of creativity that I just get. I can't hide how excited I am about it. And so that's felt really awesome to, to get to a point that that's 90% of my productive effort is towards things that I care deeply about.

So you start to find a little success with SCaLE and life is going pretty well, and then you decide to go into politics. Let's talk about that.

Yeah. So Silverton, Colorado. Was my— is, was a little of both— my favorite place. It's my happy place. It's just such a unique experience where I've also had so many memories and made great connections. And it was at a true inflection point. And I had time on my hands because I was mostly out of the day-to-day at that point. And I thought this would be really interesting to, to give back. And to contribute my perspective to how this place might hold on to what's important to it while still deciding its own future, which is what a lot of communities, I think, fail to do. They, they white-knuckle what they are and what's important, but they don't pick the point in the future that they're becoming. And everything's constantly changing. And so it's really important, I think, for anyone or any place or anything to have an idea of where they want to go. Because if, if you just decide that you like what's now and you don't think about where you're going, you're going to end up somewhere you didn't mean to.

Yeah. And Silverton is interesting because, you know, it has sort of a sister city right over the mountain. That's either a cautionary tale or a success story, depending on your perspective. But Telluride changed dramatically. And I think the residents of Silverton watched that And you sort of came in at the inflection point where they've got to start deciding what they're going to be.

Exactly. And in Silverton, Telluride and Aspen in a lot of ways are bad words. And I agree with that. Silverton is one of the last, like, true Old West mountain towns, but it has heli-skiing, which is this really interesting contrast. It's not one of the other, you know, tiny places in the Mountain West that can stay under the radar because there are people with means going there that are having these experiences, and then they're looking at the town where the real estate is still affordable and development is still pretty easy and the processes are pretty easy to navigate. And it's ripe for this influence from wealth and outside perspectives that may not be welcome, but also may not be something that the town can stop. And so the idea was to come in and contribute in a way where we could set our own future and almost like a race, like, could we get there faster than the outside influences would get us there so that we would retain the magical qualities of this place?

And you're sort of bridging that gap, right? Like, you are sort of an outsider, but, but very much with a vested interest and a love for this town. So you're kind of touching two worlds. Yeah.

I mean, even though I had, like, invested myself very deeply there personally and financially, I was entirely an outsider, really. I'd been there 5 years or so when I ran for mayor. I didn't expect it to go how it did, but I was elected with a thin margin, and that was kind of like an oh fuck moment. Like, what, what did I get myself into? And, and what do we do now? And look at all these people whose lives and livelihoods relate to the decisions we will make over the next 4 years, and I hope that I can do well by them.

Yeah. And take me through that journey as mayor.

Well, I share the perspective that it's like being the CEO of a company where you can't tell anybody what to do. We have a weak mayor system in Silverton, which meant that I was on a board of 7. So I was 1 of 7 votes. I did facilitate the meetings and set the agenda with the town manager, but otherwise I was, you know, 1/7 vote in any decision. But the perspective from everyone outside is that you're the mayor and that you're making these decisions and you bear responsibility for the outcomes. And so there is a huge amount of perceived responsibility, whether or not I could influence things. So I had to do my best to use rhetoric to influence people since I couldn't actually tell anybody what to do. And similar to a CEO, I also had tons of context from the town manager and all of the information inputs that I had as mayor that maybe other people didn't have. Uh, where, whereas a CEO can use that context from their specialist, their C-suite, to make decisions, uh, the mayor can just share their opinion and hope that people understand. And in a lot of cases they do, and a lot of cases they don't. And it was, it was challenging. Absolutely.

What was the biggest challenge you faced as mayor?

I did not anticipate some drama that, that came about through some stupid, objectively stupid things that, that I did by accident. I was given the directive to shorten the meetings. We were running like 6 and 7 hour meetings on Monday nights and it just wasn't, sustainable. And so I just took a red pen to everything, and if it wasn't essential, I cut it. And one of the things that I cut was the Pledge of Allegiance, with the thinking that it was just a few minutes that we didn't need to include. Nobody else did it. The school board didn't do it. The county commissioners didn't do it. It just wasn't— it wasn't something that even crossed my mind as terribly important. It was just a process thing that we did every day. And Unfortunately for everyone, uh, that announcement of cutting all of these things, including the Pledge of Allegiance, was done on Flag Day, which I didn't even know was a thing. But people who— the Pledge of Allegiance is a really important part of their tradition and process in these meetings, uh, noticed that immediately, and there was there was a bit of an uproar about it, which I also handled badly in my, in my role of, you know, keeping decorum. I stopped some people from interrupting the meeting in the middle of a meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance and telling them they were out of order. Unfortunate for everyone that was on Zoom because this is slightly post-COVID and that video clip of me telling people that they were out of order for doing the Pledge of Allegiance went viral and resulted in, you know, 1,000 emails a day of death threats. And I learned a bunch of new words and actually having to leave town for a little bit because it was, it was pretty scary.

Yeah. I mean, we're, uh, we can laugh about it now and, and you are, but at the time, uh, it was a big deal.

Yeah, it was, it was traumatic and it was an accident. And once you've done something like that, there really isn't anything you can say to to un— unsay it and or to appease the masses. It's just not the way that everything is set up. Once it goes, it goes, and you just have to tough it out until it passes, which I did.

Totally. But once it got kind of picked up into that viral media, what was that like for you?

It was, it was interesting to become a known person for a moment. In town, there were people that had stop Shane signs like every third house. I would get flipped off multiple times a day walking through town. I started driving everywhere in a 0.8 square mile town. I would get recognized. It ran on every Fox News, uh, media cycle nationally for a full week. And so I actually was getting recognized in other places as well. Which was really uncomfortable because a huge amount of the tourism population in Silverton and Durango are coming from conservative areas that would see Fox News and take this quite seriously. And so I felt pretty unsafe and also realized that I didn't want to be a known person pretty quickly.

Yeah, totally. And, and how did that end up playing out?

The, the net-net was that we had, we had a recall election, and I apologized. I survived the recall election by a much larger margin than the original election, which was a good result. People did— I, despite there being so much negative publicity, I did get a huge amount of support as well. And so that was really meaningful. It's a little disconcerting to know that, like, you know, that sweet old lady around the corner actually prefers to swear at you than, than get your back. But I also found out a lot of people that I didn't expect to support me did support me. And so that was awesome. But ultimately I survived the recall election and we were incredibly successful in that 4-year period navigating COVID, navigating a— what is known as one of the most divisive places in Colorado, Silverton, to become an entirely different cultural experience. We, we were successful in putting together a master plan during the same time period for the town in a historically quick period of time that when we released the first draft, I expected complete uproar. It's one of those things that it speaks to what the community's values and goals are, and I'd had a huge hand in it. And I assumed that the perspective would be, we, you know, if I said, you know, today the weather's great, 50 people in town are going to be like, the weather's awful. Like, it was just anything that I said was, uh, immediately met with some type of, you know, negative response. And so I expected this to be like a really rough process. We put out the rough draft and we received 100% support from every different aspect of town and type of person in town and perspective in town. And that was a huge surprise to me. And I credit this awesome consulting group that worked for the town of Silverton that put that together for having that success. But we, we accomplished that and it did get adopted almost exactly in the rough draft form. And is in place now and has given the town an idea of where they're going, which is very, very cool.

And I mean, what a, what a win, especially with the, the setback of making a very public mistake, right? Accidentally, and being able to recover and still really accomplish what you set out to do. How did that feel?

It felt awesome. It, it also, it's one of those, kind of like hidden gem moments where when you think about what your, what your ultimate goals are and where you're trying to, to end up, there's a lot of things that happen along the way, hiccups, surprises. And I would say the Pledge of Allegiance debacle was certainly bigger than a hiccup, but it was, you know, massive, massive drama, lots of negative experience. But through all of it, we did end up in this awesome place with tangible awesome results. And that really was what mattered. And knowing that I showed up for this service every day and did my best with the information that I had. Is one of the more satisfying experiences I've had despite all of those kind of like negative moments. Yeah.

And I know that the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't the last kind of public brush with criticism and all that. How do you deal with that? You know, either from the really acute Pledge of Allegiance moment or kind of the more prolonged criticism where you maybe have been painted unfairly Like, how do you deal with unfair criticism like that?

Well, therapy is awesome, but I think it's what I just said, where if, if every time you're put in a— every time you experience a moment where you don't know what to do and it feels like there's significant potential outcomes either way, I make the best decision that I can with the information that I have and I just show up, I'm present. I try to be as intentional as I can. I think about how this impacts myself and those around me, and I do my best. And a lot of the time I'm wrong, but a lot of the time I'm right. And either way, when you look back at it, you know that you did your best and it's really hard to regret that or to have negative feelings around that, even when you make mistakes, because you're trying. And especially in entrepreneurism, we're taking risks all of the time. We're making huge bets all of the time. Sometimes we probably shouldn't be making bets at all. And it's like, it's a good skill to know, like, when you're in a position to have enough information to make a decision or not. But assuming you have already done that and you're at that moment where it's like, go, no go. You do your best and you own the consequences and you feel pretty good about it because you did, you made the best decision you could.

I mean, what I'm hearing is really you're describing self-compassion from a, from an entrepreneurial and controlling the outcomes you can control and sort of being forced to let go of the things that you can't.

Oh yeah. I think one of the biggest shifts in my mindset that's led to me feeling— I've always been pretty positive and feeling pretty happy and smiling a lot. But one of the biggest shifts in my mindset that make that, like, the depth of that satisfaction and comfort and alignment feel really true is letting go of attachments. So if you attach yourself to an outcome, and you're driving towards something that must happen and you don't get it or don't get it exactly how you thought you would, that can lead to feelings of, you know, negative self-thought or dissatisfaction or any other form of unhappiness. But if you're doing what you're doing because what you're doing is the thing, not the outcome, then the outcome stops to matter as much. And I, that's, tying it back a little bit to the wealth idea, it's tying it back to the exit idea, but it's the process, not the outcome that matters to me. And that's why as long as the process was done with integrity, with intention, then whatever happens happens and we'll figure it out because we're all, you know, crafty people with a lot of, a lot of creativity and most of us have, you know, quite a bit of energy as well.

Well, and one of the things that I've learned over the years is that being attached to a specific outcome is actually wildly limiting. Like our, you know, by definition, outcome is something that we've imagined that we want. And by doing so, like we, what a limiting, what a limitation to place on ourself. Only what we can imagine. You kind of shut the universe out for, to unfold in your favor. And when, when we, you know, both of us can kind of look at our journeys and go, wow, look at this thing that happened that I could have never dreamed of. And it's so much better than whatever my, my dumb dreams would have been.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think you're, you're a constant example of that in a really positive way. You know, a lot of the decisions you have made and the places you've ended up There's no way we could have predicted this 10 years ago. And, and how much more awesome is it than what we could have come up with 10 years ago?

I mean, absolutely. I, I know that's been true for me certainly, but I, but I, I want to get back to this concept that I think you are really world-class at is, is alignment, right? Is determining from first principles what's really important to me and then You know, pursuing actions that support those first principles. And that is the thing that actually allows you to let go of, of the attachments to outcomes. Because, you know, if we're living out of alignment, then outcomes are really important because otherwise it's not worth it, right? If you're, if you're giving up your life at a corporate finance, uh, you know, attorney job, you better get the outcome you hope for. Otherwise there's, there's a, you know, it's, it's, the whole thing's not worth it. And so how can we, like, for someone listening, how can they start to find that alignment? Or what, what advice would you give someone who is, you know, hearing you talk about this right now?

What you just said is, is about as close as you can get to the, the best advice I think you can give, which is that if the reason you're doing something is for the outcome, then what's the point? And, and I've rarely seen an outcome that satisfies all of the, like, effort, desire, tension that comes in the process if the process doesn't matter. So I would say figure out what matters to you and spend your time doing that. And then it doesn't matter what happens. Most, most of us are coming from a place of entitlement where our worst case scenario is not necessarily something like homelessness or, or total life destruction. You know, most of us are, you know, making big swings, but at a point where it's like, not that I ever would, but like, I could always get a job. And so, and I don't think about that much. That doesn't really feel like a safety net. That sounds like a terrible scenario and outcome. But, but if you are compromising yourself in your process and how you're spending your time, then you're probably not gonna end up somewhere satisfying. And so I think it's really important. And, and so for some people, like, it's not related to work or money or building a company. For a lot of people, it's like, I want to be able to spend 3 hours a day with my kids, and nothing else during the ages of this and this matter to them. Like, they've, they've felt it innately. That's super important to them. And so make the decisions that give you those 3 hours. And that might be spending your time having, you know, being a barista, which is super respectful, like, but it's about aligning your values and your purpose with, you know, how you're spending your time and, and what fills you up.

So well said. And, and I really appreciate your perspective here. And, you know, I, I think one of the cool things right, if we draw this out, is that when you're living in alignment, when you're living from your first principles, the universe starts to unfold things. And you've got some really exciting things on the horizon. Can you tell me what you're up to?

Yeah, I mean, crazy stuff happens when, when you're living in alignment.

Um, imagine—

so think about the days where you're just— and if this isn't something that you relate to right away, like, think about the days where you've slept well and you wake up and you're just like, something awesome is going to happen today. And you walk around and because something awesome, maybe you like hold a door open for somebody you normally wouldn't, you start a conversation. All of a sudden, like all these weird things start happening. Like maybe that person knows somebody else that you know and you happen to talk because you held the door because you woke up in a good mood. I feel like living in alignment is where it's like that almost 24/7 where things that don't otherwise exist just pop up as obvious options or possibilities. And so part of that was because I was pursuing hospitality, because it's something that I've become so passionate about, because I aligned with my business partner Hollis Carter on what that meant. When a property called Gold Lake popped up for sale last June and he sent it to me, I was in a position to be able to pursue it. And this is, this is something that I've been thinking about for over 10 years. I had this idea for a property that is, uh, I, I was calling it back in the day, a deconstructed hotel. So a campus style property or resort style property where there's multiple buildings. We have a central lodge and I wanted it to be in a remote feeling location. And I've been looking, I've been on the ground in 200 different properties looking for something like this. And turns out you don't have to go 10 hours away or 2 flights away. It's 14 miles outside of Boulder. And this property popped up. I went and looked at it. Hollis and I, within a few hours, were like, you in? You in? Yep. Resounding yes, actually. And made an offer, had it under contract, and have I've been working on that for a year now, and it is, it truly is the culmination of all of the things I've been working towards in terms of what I can accomplish. But it is the thing that I've been aiming for since I started this journey over 10 years ago.

Yeah. And, and speaking of it in, in terms of a, of a culmination, I think is really fair. What gave you the confidence? To move on this so quickly and, uh, feel so, you know, confident in your, in your ability to execute at this level?

That's a great question. I've been doing hospitality now for 10 years, different scale, different scope, but all the same component parts. And my biggest constraint has been the size of the properties and the amount of investment into the properties. And I have a very, very clear vision of what hospitality means. We talk about, I talk about, and Hollis talks about the art of atmosphere. And so the art of atmosphere is all of the components that go into an experience. It can be the lights, the humidity, the temperature, the textures, the colors, the people inputs, the human component. And there is an artistry to it where not every atmosphere is exactly right for every person, but in a hospitality setting, the idea is creating a space that gives people an opportunity to feel seen, to feel connected, to connect. Um, and I think that's something that because of all this time spent thinking about it and working on it, I'm uniquely suited to create. And Hollis has done the same thing through his events. Baby Bathwater, uh, one of the magic things that I see is that they overlay their hospitality in a physical setting. They take over a hotel property and they execute a high-ticket event where it doesn't matter how nice the hotel is or how nice the food is because they overlay the human piece. So incredibly well that you don't even notice that these other things are incredible or just okay. And our idea is to combine my knowledge and experience of setting the physical setting and some of the human component with his experience of setting the human component and creating something really magical here.

Yeah, I mean, truly a situation where 1 1 is greater than 2. You're both bringing your own unique experiences and true passions, because I see both of you guys light up when you, when you talk about this thing. And it really seems like the universe in this case is conspiring in your favor because you've got your 10,000 hours, you've paid your dues, you've been so dedicated on this path of alignment. This is almost like a logical conclusion to that, to that path.

Yeah, I mean, when, when it came time to make the decision and go all in, it wasn't even really a question. It was like, yeah, of course we're, of course we're doing this. What's the best way to do this? And that's been what we've been working on for the last year. And we've come up with a really awesome plan for that property that it's, it's 90 acres. It has a 35-acre private lake. It's 30 minutes outside of Boulder. It's under 2 hours from the Denver International Airport. And it also is a really unique, magical landscape. There have been humans, uh, spending time on this property for hundreds of years. There's a natural lake, and our intention is to create a built environment that doesn't detract from the beauty of the natural space, but gives you everything that you need to have just a magical experience. And Every time we're up there, we feel it and we see it. It's tangible. And it's such a compelling environment. Every time we go up there with people, we have like a 1-hour meeting and 3 hours later, like everybody's looking for an excuse to stay. Nobody's getting in their cars and we're just, it's just this awesome experience and we get to add to it, which is just so cool.

Uh, it's, it's incredibly inspiring. I, I can say from personal experience, it's a, it's a very special, unique, and, and truly magical place. And, and one of the most stunning and inspiring places I've been. I, I cannot wait to see what you do with it. I, I've seen the vision. It's incredibly impressive. If someone's interested and wants to get involved with the project and, and learn more, how can they find you?

Yeah, so the best way to get to us is our email. Which is info@goldlakehospitality.com, and I'd be happy to share information about the project and its proximity to Denver and Boulder and all of the amazing stuff we're gonna do there once it's open.

Yeah, it's a, it's a really unique vision and I, I can't wait to see, truly have a front row seat to what you guys are building. Shane, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story, the, the wild ride. It's, it's just been such a pleasure to, to watch, and I really appreciate you.

Thank you, Mike. It's been awesome to be here and to have a front row seat to your wild ride and to have your support through mine. What an awesome life we're living.

100%, man. Cheers, brother. Cheers.