The BRUTAL Truth About Chasing a Dream (Lyle Divinsky)

I was pretty convinced I was gonna be a professional basketball player. The first time I actually sang in front of anybody was on the basketball court because I was messing with my coach, just trying to like rouse him a little bit. Just being like, "So you gonna let me sing the national anthem at the first game?" And he was like, "Yep." It kind of backfired on the coach because I realized that for one, I got a bunch of attention from girls and I didn't have to run to do it.

Lyle Davinsky spent over 5 years performing in NYC subways while crafting his album "Uneven Floors." which earned global recognition and hit number 2 on the UK soul charts. Within weeks, he was picked up by the Motet, performing at iconic venues like Red Rocks and Madison Square Garden. After 5 years, 4 albums, over 600 shows, and over 10 million streams, he's now about to launch a brand new project that he announces in this episode.

Then I moved down to New York and got a job for 2 days in a coffee shop. Hated it. Walked down into the subways, opened up my guitar. And made more money in 2 hours than I had made in the 2 days. And then became a subway musician for 5 years. Played in the subways during the days and then the clubs at night.

You're sort of coming into this realization that I don't want to be gigging when I'm 70.

I basically meditated for about a half hour a day for probably 2 years on something that would drive me and something that would give me the same passion that music gave me. Because, I mean, at this point, like, Following passion for the last 20 years, I don't think I can really just like go get a job that's gonna pay me a good amount and that I didn't give a fuck about.

How did you land on your current idea and what are you doing?

Tell us about it. Uh, this will actually be the first time that I'm talking about it publicly, which is kind of cool.

Welcome to Money Stories, where we have conversations with founders about money, meaning, and what truly makes a rich life. Today's guest, I could not be more excited for this conversation. One of the most beautiful humans that I know. And his journey's a little bit different from the other founders that have been on this show. Lyle Davinsky has been a touring musician for most of his life and has recently taken the, the leap into entrepreneurship. So the arc might be a little bit different. I'm, I'm so excited to, for you to share your story with the world. Welcome to the show, Lyle.

Thank you so much for having me, man.

So let's start from the beginning. How did you grow up with money and how did that influence your career?

Man, I was thinking about this on the way over because I grew up in Portland, Maine and had an incredible community and I don't think I ever really thought about money growing up. Kind of had what I needed despite growing up in like lower middle class at best. But the thing is, is that we, we gave to each other and we provided for each other. This was chosen family as well as blood family. And I don't think I really thought about money until I graduated college and went to New York and realized that all my friends were rich and I wasn't. And I kind of had a, like, I worked all through college and like to try to keep up with them, but it never really even like clocked. I never really thought about, I don't know, like why people had money or not. It was just a matter of like, well, they're doing that, so I'm going to do this to be able to do that. And so money was kind of a, it was, it was a side thought. And I give it up to my parents because I was raised in what I consider a very wealthy household because I had two parents who loved each other. My sister and my nephew eventually. And it was the most loving and safe space that there was nothing that really like called me to money to a certain degree.

What a gift.

Yeah. Without a doubt.

And I know music was an important part of your home and an important part of your journey.

For sure.

Tell me about that.

Yeah, so I actually didn't start playing or making music myself until I was about 17. But my dad— both my parents are public school teachers. My dad was a musician. He turned down the touring lifestyle when he had my sister first, who's 5 and a half years older than me, and gigged on the weekends and did things like that. But he was always playing around the house. And so, like, a version of him hanging out with his friends was sitting around the living room with a bottle of wine, a couple of beers or whatever, playing music with his friends. And so it was just always around me. And it was very, it was just another like kind of soothing, safe space. So it kind of, when I discovered it for myself, even though I pushed it away for a long time, because even when you have cool parents, you, you still rebel against them. So I was pretty convinced I was going to be a, be a professional basketball player for way too long. But then, yeah, I mean, the first time I actually sang in front of anybody was on the basketball court because I was messing with my coach and I told him, just kind of just trying to like rouse him a little bit. So being like, so you're going to let me sing the national anthem at the first game? And he was like, yep. When I thought he was going to tell me to like shut up and go like, go run. And me being the competitive person I was, I was just like, all right, well, cool. I got to go learn how to do this. Make it happen.

So that was the first time you performed in public? Yeah. What was that like?

I was nervous at first, for sure, but then after I finished, kind of, kind of, it kind of backfired on the coach because I realized that, for one, I got a bunch of attention from girls and I didn't have to run to do it. And then it also just felt so good and felt like something that could also be mine. And kind of realized in that moment that it was not just my father's thing. It was also mine. And then through a bunch of experiences that kind of dominoed from there, I have a pretty— I'm pretty good at hyperfixating on things. And so first there was basketball, then the moment that that hit, it was just like complete switch. And then it was just music. I mean, it's been music.

Yeah, this is what we do.

Yeah.

So walk me through that journey. What are some pivotal points in your musical journey and how did you get your start?

So it was kind of the universe working its magic that right at the moment that that happened, I was kind of going through some internal shifts of realizing there was a moment in Spanish class, like not too far before that, that I realized that I was living my life for everybody else, but not for myself. And it— that also just switched a— flipped a switch within me. And I kind of went from being a quiet jock to just like, I am going to be myself. I am going to be just like radically authentic and figure out what that means for myself. And I connected, reconnected with two of my best friends from elementary school, from first and second grade. And they had been starting to play music. And so they were just like, yeah, come, we'll come jam. I was like, well, I don't really play any instruments. They're like, well, your dad can sing. I bet you can too. It's like, yeah, I can sing a little bit. And then we started our first band like a month later and played around Portland, would play with my dad. Then I took a year off in between high school and college and traveled around Italy with a guitar. Playing on the street. And then went to college, tried to push music off so I could keep that as a passion, not a career. But no matter what, I just kept coming back to wanting to play. And then I moved down to New York and got a job for 2 days in a coffee shop, hated it, walked down into the subways, opened up my guitar, and made more money in 2 hours than I had made in the 2 days. And then became a subway musician for 5 years and played in the subways during the days and then the clubs at night.

I mean, what a wild existence and probably so foreign. First of all, I just want to back up to recognizing that you're living for everybody else at 17, 18. I mean, most of us entrepreneurs don't realize that till we're in our 40s. So how did that even come about? Like, how do you, how do you realize such a profound thing at such a young age?

I think for one, it was to again, hearken back to my parents and to the community that I was with. There was always safety and love and kind of an attraction to weird, especially my dad. And I mean, I'm basically a carbon copy of my dad. I'm just trying to keep up. But I think that we've always liked— I've always been attracted to genuine. And I think, like, we can call it weird, we can call it whatever, authentic, like, whatever word, like, because to me, weird is a really positive term. Because if you're living weird, then you're living yourself, you know? And I think that I've always been into books. I've always been into poetry. I've always been into songwriting and music. And so the things like the music that stands out to me, the books that stand out to me, the poems that stand out to me are the genuine, authentic representations of the human condition. And so by drawing into that, I think that I had at least like sourced a lot of knowledge without realizing it. And then, I mean, it's wild. It was like a lightning bolt. I just remember in Spanish class and Señora Trainer, and I hated her. So I was like, really just like my mind was going so many different ways during her class. But I just remember it was a lightning bolt and it was just like, oh, These insecurities, these worries, these anxieties, this energy that I'm giving to other people isn't serving me. What do I need to do to serve myself?

Move to New York and play in the subway.

Yeah, I mean, that was not a, I couldn't have foreseen that at that point, you know?

But so, I mean, what's that like? I mean, that has to be, you have to have some wild stories from 5 years playing in the subway.

Oh yeah, man.

I mean, let's dig in.

It's the greatest sociological study ever because when you're on a subway platform, I was usually on the L platform, Union Station, right, going in between Williamsburg and Union Station and whatnot. But I was on the platform. I didn't like doing the train thing because that's too much in people's space. But on that platform, you get 7 minutes with people who are on the same plane, the You know, 25-year-old Wall Street exec, the 65-year-old homeless man, the, you know, the teenage mother, the person trying to become a star in New York. They're all waiting. There was no cell phone service at that point down in the subways. Everyone's just waiting on the same plane. And so My thought was I would just try to do whatever I could to bring sunshine to the dungeon and also be able to read the energy of the group of people to see how I could best shine that light. And so it gave me the ability and kind of honed in my ability to see people and to be able to understand their energy in a moment, to know how I could best provide for them and lift their day up a little bit more.

So even then, it sounds like for you, it's really about serving others.

It's kind of always been that, yeah. I think that that also stems from, I mean, coming from parents who are public school teachers, like through their entire career or most of their career. I mean, my sister was a CNA, eventually became a CNA and now is a caseworker and Works to provide services for adults with intellectual, developmental, or financial disabilities to be able to live as autonomous a life as possible. It's kind of been an ethos within the family.

So not a lot of money, but sounds like a tremendous amount of love.

Yeah.

And a calling for service.

Yeah.

So you're playing in the subway, and even though you said you made more money in 2 hours than you did at your coffee shop job, that's still not a lot of money to live in New York.

Oh, hell no.

What were those years like?

New York's a really good place to be either broke or rich, and I think that it's a tough place to be anywhere in between. So at the beginning, when I was fully broke and like had no idea what quality of life was, I was living the best life. I mean, I could get dollar slices. I could get $3 falafels. I was friends with a bunch of the venues that I played at, so I could usually get free drinks or discounted drinks, or my check would be pretty low in comparison. So I would get what I needed. And it was always just kind of like, I think for a long time within Within my life, it's been kind of just get what I need. And I can find what I need as long as I'm living a life of passion and living aligned with that and surrounding myself with people that I love and reaching for the highest level of my artistry and of my understanding of how to become the musician and the person that I want to become and be able to share those things that I learned, whether it was through my music or through conversation, as long as I could pay the bills, we're good. And granted, some bills got ignored. Student loans got ignored for a little while. Oops. Learned that lesson. Credit's good now. But it's always been driven by passion and by service.

It's, again, this is gonna sound, I think, I mean, at least to me, I can't imagine this life in my 20s. But it— I mean, it sounds like you were free. I mean, were you worried? Did it ever get heavy or were you just living your best life?

Oh, no, man, it was heavy all the time. But I also kind of— I don't know, I sometimes call it the songwriter syndrome where you sabotage just enough to get some lessons and some songs out of it. So I think it was B.B. King that said, "Give me the woman of my dreams and then have her break my heart and then I'll make you the best record you ever heard." And I think that there is a little bit of— I think I've always kind of adopted some of that. I've addressed this since, but so many of my heroes were musicians like Donny Hathaway or Jeff Buckley or Marvin Gaye or people that either killed themselves or found ways to go early anyway. And so there's been kind of a constant battle for myself of how can I get to the point of being a songwriter and a musician who can tap into that level of understanding or the depths of the human condition while still maintaining a solid foundational grasp of myself and of the world around me, which is a tough one. It's a tough balance. It's a good tightrope, but I mean, the pain is inspiring. Come on, baby. And I've learned and continually do my best to try to make sure that whether you call it self-sabotage or whatnot, has kind of subsided. And the more that I learn myself and grow into myself and learn from the incredible humans who I've been able to be around, I realize that there's so much to write about and so much to understand that doesn't have to go to those places and that pain is only one of the emotions. And, and to be able to, to write And to be able to live by the whole of the human experience, not just one part that really does hit me in a beautiful way. But maybe it's the— I don't know, maybe this is turning into a therapy session, but maybe it's the, like, the desire for service that draws me to the folks that are in pain to be able to understand how I— if I can understand that pain, then I can better help and translate that into a space that can bring them a little bit more of a be seen in a different way.

Yeah, I mean, we just on the last episode talked about coaching and, you know, it's my belief that it's really hard to be a good coach without scars, right? You need to have walked through the fire at some point. And that doesn't mean we have to keep walking through the fire.

Yeah.

Right? But those scars, those lessons are valuable. Oh yeah. And that's where the real beauty comes from. So tell me about your journey as an artist. You're playing clubs, playing in the subway. When did you start to see some commercial success?

Yeah. So I, my goal and intention while in New York was to, I wanted to surround myself with the best. I wanted to find the people who raised my bar, but also who believed in my artistry as well and create the record of my dreams. And so I think it was about 2013, I had, made friends and kind of worked my way into the circle of a lot of these musicians. And I kind of, I kind of, I don't think I've ever said this, especially not in a public forum like this. So maybe it's been long enough. So what I did was I had the 4 people that I knew that I wanted to be on the record. And these are all world-class musicians, toured all around the world, done everything. And so I called one of them and I was like, yo, so this guy, this guy, and this guy and I were all signed on to do the record. And they said, it's got to be you. You got to be the one to play this instrument. And he's like, really? All right, sounds good. So then I called the next guy and I was like, all right, so I just got off the phone with this guy, this guy, and this guy. We all agreed, it's gotta be you. And I made sure to do that real quick so that none of them texted each other in between. But they all said yes. And then we made the record of my dreams and I'd, you know, been writing some of the best music that I had written up to that point. And then, you know, I was obviously self-represented being a Subway guy and just playing locally in New York. Sent about, I don't know, 3,000 emails and to every, like to every, I got like everybody's media list, everybody's record label list, everybody's radio list that I could find from different venues and different folks that I knew in the industry and ended up getting that record played on radio stations all around the world. It went number 2 on the UK soul charts. And started to kind of gain some traction pretty quickly, which was really cool. So I was lining up the tours. And then 2 weeks after I put it out, I get a call from this band, The Motet, out here in Colorado, and they were looking for a new singer. And at first, I was like, listen, I can't do that. I gotta go pursue this. And then they're like, yeah, but if you join, then we're gonna be headlining Red Rocks in 6 months with Madeski, Martin Wood and Wolfpack opening for us. And I was just like, yeah, let's do it. That sounds great. As long as I can do my own solo stuff too. And they're like, yeah, of course. What they didn't tell me is that they toured every weekend for like 45 weekends out of the year. So they kind of, they got me on that one. But I went from basically playing in the subways to headlining Red Rocks within a year with a number 2 record on the UK soul charts. And had to unfortunately leave that one, leave that one untoured and unpromoted because of it. But what an incredible opportunity. And that brought me out to Colorado. So, I mean, look at the butterfly effect. We probably wouldn't be sitting here if I didn't say yes.

So what's— I mean, what's that like? You're in the Subways doing everything you can to make it.

Yeah.

But living free.

Uh-huh.

Then you're headlining Red Rocks. I mean, that's got to be a surreal experience. What was that like?

Hell yeah. I mean, I think that it was such a shock to a certain degree that, but there was also a feeling of like, this is what I've always wanted and this is what I've always strived for. And I mean, it's a wild thing to kind of skip, you know, 47 rungs on the ladder and not have to do the grind of the touring and all of those kinds of things. But because of that, I felt an extra responsibility to step up. And to be worthy of that, even though I felt like I was already there. But, you know, their former singer, there were a lot of people who were very dedicated to him. And so, I mean, me stepping out onto Red Rocks, that was the first time that I'd ever played in front of the hometown crowd here. And so it's like, got 9,000 people saying, who the fuck is this? Sorry if I can't swear on my show.

Oh, we like F-bombs on this show.

Oh, okay, fuck yeah. But like, so to me, it's just like, I bet I'm just going to lay this all out and make sure that they, that, you know, it's not a matter of forgetting about the old singer, but it's a matter of being, y'all are going to be really happy about whose hands you're in right now. And, you know, aside from it being the first time that I had played at altitude, so I came out and I'm like, what's up, Red Rock? Oh goodness. Because I was coming from sea level. It was like, oh, it's going to be a long show. But otherwise, you know, I'm gonna just dance around. I'm gonna get this entire crowd to make it, make everybody feel like they're in the same space all together, connected and living the greatest 2 hours that they can live.

And I've had the privilege of seeing you do that on numerous occasions and I mean, that's exactly, that's an apt description of what you do. But how did you get the confidence to do that on your first major headlining show? Like, how do you step out on the Red Rock stage and go, I got this?

I think it's a matter of, there's not really, you don't really have a choice otherwise. I mean, I guess we all have a choice, but I'd always envisioned myself on those stages. I had, like, I knew what I was working for. And to me also, I don't know. There's one thing also that like once you get past 1,000 people, it actually almost becomes easier because the heads start to become a crowd as opposed to, like I'd rather play in front of 5,000 people than 5 people because I can see everybody's reaction. So there's a certain level of that, but I think I've, it was the chance and the opportunity for me to do the thing that I've always, that I had been practicing for, for so long. I felt very lucky to be there, but I also think that, you know, we've talked about this, like, luck is just being prepared when the moment comes. And thankfully, I had gained the confidence and the comfort within my ability to not only sing the song, perform the song, but also to be able to create the environment that needed to be created. Like playing in the subways is way harder than playing at Red Rocks. It's very, very like, I mean, whose job, who works a job where like you get cheered for just for showing up? You know, you get like handed free drinks and you step into the office onto the stage and everybody's just like, nice work. Yeah, let's go. So it's like, I mean, that's the greatest drug there is. And so for me going in front of, you know, 9,000 people, any nerves got washed away immediately. When you get hit with that applause and you get hit by that energy, and also the fact that I got to get inspired by two of my favorite bands beforehand. I was like, yeah, game on. That's like, what else am I going to do but soak in every moment of this and share this with as many people as I can?

I mean, was that the greatest night of your life to that point?

Musically, yeah.

Yeah.

From a, from a career, like in a career space. Absolutely.

I mean, what is that like to achieve your wildest dreams?

I learned quick that once you get that, then it's just like you live that. I mean, you celebrate it for a couple hours after that. And then it's just like, okay, cool. Now what? Like, it's just a matter of the goalpost gets moved. And so you go further into a different space and go further into what What is next? What's the next, what's the next thing that I got to check off? And honestly, that was a harder thing to come to realize, to know that it's not a matter of achieving one thing, that you are just constantly in process. But then I also feel very lucky that within, within the artist pursuit, within songwriting, I've always, I've always felt like the end result is not my favorite part. It's the process that's my favorite part. The coming to figure out like, how is this song going to come together? It's problem solving. It's creating puzzle pieces out of thin air and putting them together in a way that will make people feel something. And It's one of my greatest flow states, but I translate that over into a lot of pieces of my world that it's the process that we need to fall in love with. It's the everyday that we need to fall in love with. It's the who am I in this situation, in this situation, in this situation. It's not once the song is done, I'm almost like I'm proud of it, but there's almost like a mourning. Because now I don't get to work on it anymore. So I have to go and find the next one to work on. And I think about that with dreams or with things that we strive for. I'll always have goals. I'm a creator at heart and a doer at heart. And so I'm going to go after those things. But it's the everyday working on them that is the exciting part. It's the, like, you know, it's not like getting married and then you're happy. It's the everyday that you get to spend with your partner. That's the true joy. If you're living it right.

It's falling in love with the mundane.

Amen, brother.

So take me from beyond there. You start touring.

Mm-hmm.

What's that like?

I mean, it's a dream in a lot of ways. Not growing up with money. I didn't really have the ability to travel or to do anything like that. So it was always, it was never like a, oh, like I wish I was able to do this. It was like, okay, well, how am I going to do that? Music is a great way to do it. So I was like, great. One of my biggest goals was to be able to travel the world through music because I knew that that was my avenue to traveling. That was my avenue to getting to see different places. And I got to do that. You know, most, most of the time with the Motet, it was primarily domestic. And we did a couple of things outside of it. And then I traveled a little bit on my own to, to be able to go and do some other things outside of the country. But it gave me the avenue to fulfill some of those greater joys and dreams. And I mean, shoot, like, it's kind of cool to be able to say, like, no matter what city I go into or, like, urban area around the country, I probably have at least one person that I consider family at this point. Because I always made sure that whenever I traveled, I would get as much time out in the local space as possible, go talk to people, go out and, like, granted, even though that sometimes was an hour a day or something like that, go for a walk when I had a chance, go talk to some random people, figure out what it was like in that town or what the ethos was or what their everyday was like so that I could better show up for people when I'm on stage and be able to understand their environment a little bit more. And then usually after the show, I'd go to the merch booth, try to wheel and deal and sell some extra, sell some extra things because nowadays with you know, music being inherently free. Musicians are also, you know, brand designers, marketers, social media design, like social media, uh, uh, marketers and everything like that. So it's like, cool, we got to get our money wherever we can. So I make sure to go out, connect with everybody, sell some extra stuff, but then usually find some fun people to go out with and go, go get some extra, make some extra memories on the road.

So I'm hearing the beginnings of an entrepreneurial bend here.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're, you're a performer, but you're a businessman.

Oh, without a doubt. I mean, the thing that I've kind of realized as I've stepped into the entrepreneurial space is that without even realizing it, I think I've, I've just always been that, but the product was me. And so that's been a really interesting piece of recognition where I've just always had to market me. And that's a really interesting space. And, you know, one reason why I've kind of started to make this shift is because I realized that after 20-plus years of self-promotion and saying, look at me and like support my creativity, kind of realizing that I would like to do that for other things as well. And so, you know, especially being able to step into a place where I feel like, you know, what I'm creating now is going to support everybody else's creativity. And now I get to flip the script and be able to give back to everyone else while still being able to take these things that I've learned and the things that I've learned by making it about me and about my own pursuits, but turn that around and ideally give that gift to them.

Well, I definitely want to dive into the entrepreneurial journey, but I, I— we're skipping ahead a little.

Oh yeah, without a doubt, bro, without it.

So by all sensibilities, you're a touring musician, right? Headlining Red Rocks, you know, playing shows of that caliber, but not ever reaching it to that maybe next level or next level. Yeah, right. The mega show artist type level. What is the, what is the struggle between the level that you were at and that ultimate level? What does that look like for you?

I think that one of the, one of the main reasons why I'm no longer with that band that I was with is that I kind of realized that it wasn't mine. It was a collective's, but it was also like, I came in as a replacement singer. They had built and still are doing incredible things and have an incredible fan base and community around them. But I think I missed creating something that was mine. And something that felt like it truly and wholly represented who I was. You know, that band was, you know, party funk, super, super high energy, great times, and like, and just like filled with some of the best musicians that I've ever played with. But when the pandemic hit, I realized that I was only listening to like super mellow songwriter kind of things and writing emo R&B songs and stuff like that. And it just kind of all clicked to me that I would no longer be able to provide for the band in the way that they needed me to. And I didn't see myself being able to give to them to be able to reach those plateaus or like reach those next levels. And that like maybe within this space I had reached a plateau. And so I needed to kind of get back to my foundational roots and kind of remind myself who I was and how I was. When I was in the driver's seat. And so, yeah, I quit on my 35th birthday and then started writing my next record and realized, like, my sister always joked around that I went from Subways to stadiums. And then I would joke around with people saying that I went from Red Rocks to coffee shops because it was just like I went straight back to the bottom. And I loved it. It was the best. And I was like, ever since then, I mean, the shows that I, the shows that I would, that I've been playing have been more the listening rooms, the 200-person venues that where people are sitting down and it's just me with a guitar. And it's like part amateur, really shitty stand-up comedy. Part group therapy, and sometimes music. But there was an energy that I knew that I could create there. And there was a space of sharing that inspired me in so many different ways and kind of drove me to thinking, like, am I going to become a therapist? Am I going to become a coach? Maybe. Am I going to, like, what kind of, like, how can I take what I'm experiencing in these small rooms and provide value and service, not only for other people, but for myself and realize that like my passion for music is always one of the top things and creation is always one of the top things, but my desire for fame started to wean. And the desire to be on the biggest stage as possible started to not be as sexy to me because I knew what it took to get there. And I didn't think that I, it didn't really align fully with what I needed and what I wanted to be able to give to that.

And this is such an interesting inflection point because We've kind of touched on it a bit, but the theme of this show is money stories.

Yeah, man.

You saw a lot of success, but that didn't really translate to financial success.

Woo, yeah. I actually remember a moment. I moved, I lived in Denver from 2016 to 2019, and I moved out to Tahoe for my ex in September 2019. And the last show that I played, I was playing with one of my absolute heroes who was probably about 72 at the time. And I remember talking with him in the green room and I mean, this man is, his music has been played all over the world. One of the most sampled bands ever. But we learned lessons from the past. They didn't own their masters. And so they didn't make their money in that kind of way, despite the fact that they should be multi, multi, multi-millionaires. But we were playing a show. It was like a post-Fish show. It started at like 1 AM or something and ended at 3:30 AM. And I was like, so you're going to stick around and enjoy Colorado while you're here. You're going to get out in the mountains, do whatever. And he's like, nah, man, I gotta go straight to the airport after the gig, catch a 6 AM flight, fly to New Orleans to go do a gig. I was like, well, why are you doing that? And he looked at me with just kind of like a sadness in his eye and he was just like, I need the money. And this is one of my heroes. Fuck. And I kind of realized in that moment that I don't know if I want to, if pursuing music for, whether it's for fame or whether it's for anything in that kind of level, I didn't want that life. I didn't want to still be living on the road like that when I'm in my 70s. And I think that that was kind of the beginning of the search for What's next? Or what can I do differently?

Yeah, I mean, you know, this is again, such a different arc from most of the people on this show because you grew up in a home filled with love, never worried about money. You chased your dreams.

Yeah.

You went and got 'em. Everything. And it's not to say that there was never dark times, right?

No, of course.

But sort of living your dream life.

Without a doubt.

But there's one thing that always sort of eluded you, right? Money.

I had many pillars of wealth. One of them was not a bank account.

Most people on this show, their money story that they inherit as a kid drives them to success. And then at some point they rewrite that money story. Your money story, if I may, was money doesn't matter. Do what you love.

Money was other. I didn't know anybody with money. It was like, it wasn't even a, I never even had an example to go after with that. And I mean, even, you know, my parents, when they would talk about it, there was always kind of like people with money were other. And I think that I've kind of recognized that through, especially through hanging out with y'all on the, was it the Wealth Thermometer?

Yeah.

Yeah. Under— understanding what my, what my history with money is, both in the positive and negative spaces. And I feel really lucky that I never had to consider it for a long time. But I also know that there was also a, like, probably a mindset that I didn't even think it was possible or like had never seen anybody grow into that space. And so it was always just kind of like a, Well, yeah, like that's over there. And thankfully for me, passion and safety and love was always there and had always given me everything that I needed. But like in that moment when I talked to my hero and heard that, it was kind of the first time that I recognized like, oh, Yeah, this needs to be considered. You know, I don't want to have to live. I've seen a lot of these wonderful musicians have to live this life until the end. And oftentimes, if anything happened, have to open up GoFundMes just to be able to handle a health emergency or things like that. I don't want to have to rely on people like that.

So how did you start to rewrite that story and how did that lead to your entrepreneurial journey?

So after my ex and I split, I moved to Nashville thinking I was going to become a songwriter because I was like, well, I don't have to travel. I can recoup and like get all the royalties and all that kind of stuff. But then also at the same time, I came in with the Baby Bathwater crew. And I came in first as a musician. 2021, I think, was the first time that I came down and played and immediately fell in love with the community and was just drawn in as people, you know, as just first and foremost. And then played another event, then played another event and was just like, man, I need to find out a way to like, stay around this crew because not only did I just love y'all, but I also was so inspired and intellectually and emotionally and spiritually stimulated. And I'm very much a— I can be an experiential learner in a lot of ways where I got to see musicians that were peers do things at a high level. I mean, I remember when I was 17 and first started, my dad brought me down to a local venue that he knew the door guy, got me in to be able to see a show that was being played. And it was my now brother, Nigel Hall, actually one of the guys who was on the record that I conned into playing on my record. but I saw him playing soul music. I was like, oh, you can do that. Okay, cool. Now that I know that you can do that and I see an example of that in real time, it's like, oh, bet, let's go. And I think that Baby Bathwater kind of provided the same type of experience for me where I got to see peers. I got to see people who are now becoming close friends. Operating in these really high levels and creating businesses that are wildly successful and, you know, in a whole different span of ways. And it was just like, oh, you can do that. And it also expanded my mind into different ways of thinking and realizing that everybody, like, Entrepreneurs are songwriters. Entrepreneurs are making albums. Like, to me, my entrepreneurial journey right now is stepping into making one of the biggest albums that I've ever made. And that's the way that I look at it. And I look at a lot of y'all creating these songs and moments and these albums and products and these different types of live show experiences and coaching. Like there's so many synonymous things that go on that it just, it kind of opened my eyes to a bigger world and a different way to think. And also put me around, honestly, the type of community and culture that I love to be around are people that think differently and experience life differently. And, you know, I was in the music world where I was only around musicians. So there was a very, of a very small scope, you know what I mean? And we think about, a lot of musicians like to think about themselves as having gotten out of the system by becoming artists, but really you just put yourself in a whole other system and one that doesn't really have a lot of upside in the financial department. A lot of wealth in the spiritual department, but not a lot of upside in the other. It takes a, a very small percentage to be able to make a good living doing it. And so it really just, it, being around these entrepreneurs, these creators really stirred my brain and really showed me some different ways of thinking. And then when we were in Croatia a couple of years ago, Hollis, I think there was somebody who dropped out last minute that was doing a content session. And Hollis and I had been talking about the kind of antiquated nature of the music industry. And so we had just kind of an open forum, like Socratic seminar on the last day with all of the members and the musicians, just deep dive exploring the music industry and how we might be able to shake things up. And like, I've always been good at kind of breaking the system or like realizing once I realized the system, I'm pretty good at using it to my advantage and understanding it and how to rise up. And I had never really understood that I was within a system. And that kind of just like broke me open in the greatest way. And so I started getting, my creativity started to go into different spaces of like, okay, cool. Like, how can I think differently? How can I find a way where maybe my time doesn't have to equal my money? Where, because I had basically just become a gig worker because you don't make any backend on albums anymore. In fact, you pretty much lose money by making a $40,000 record and then getting it streamed however many times, because a million streams equals like $3,000 now. Which is insane. So how does anybody recoup? So it just, it drove me into a constant kind of meditation and search for what would be my next thing to be able to expand myself and put myself into that space.

And what an interesting crossroads. You're sort of coming into this realization that A, I don't want to be gigging when I'm 70.

Mm-hmm.

B, I've come into my own creative limitations, at least in the current iteration. And now all of a sudden money's no longer other, it's around.

Yeah.

So what does the journey look like from there? I'll ask it a different way. How did you land on your current idea and what are you doing? Tell us about it.

Oh yeah, this will actually be the first time that I'm talking about it publicly, which is kind of cool. —But so I moved to Nashville, was getting into the songwriting thing, but then I was also thinking about, am I going to become a therapist or something like that? But also, I don't know if I want to do that yet. I don't know if I want to give up on music yet. I don't know if I can, if I want to, I don't really know how to do this. But I basically meditated for about a half hour a day for probably 2 years on something that would drive me and something that would give me the same passion that music gave me and gives me. Because I mean, at this point, like, following passion for the last 20 years, I don't think I can really just like go get a job that's going to pay me a good amount that I didn't give a fuck about. It's a little too late to sell your soul. Yeah. And also, like, I haven't worked for anybody. Ever. And so I don't think I'd be very, very good at that part either. So I was playing around with it. And one thing over the pandemic, I started teaching vocal lessons via Zoom and eventually in person a little bit, but I was never like formally trained. And I didn't realize it at the time, but when I worked with people, I was working with people at all levels, all ages. And didn't realize that I was kind of creating a different framework than most. And my vocal lessons kind of became a more therapeutic, spiritual kind of endeavor. And I came to recognize that people of all different success levels, of all different ages, is like it, No one is held outside of this, but people have walls around their voices. People have built walls around their voices. Society has built walls around people's voices, whether it's public speaking being the number one fear in the world, whether it's people saying like, oh, I can't sing. Like when people say that I can't sing, like I have never called bigger bullshit. Doesn't mean that you gotta go on stage. But people silence themselves. People hold themselves back and for a multitude of reasons and for a multitude, so many different stories that lead to the same place of silence. And kind of another moment of clarity, I realized, oh, I can create something and use my abilities to make people feel safe and to meet them where they are, to be able to open them up. Because, I mean, all I would need with somebody was an hour. I mean, really, like 15 minutes. And even using their words, they would say, like, you've changed my life. Like, now not only do I feel more comfortable singing, but I also feel more comfortable in my body. I feel more comfortable talking to my partner and talking to my coworkers and realizing that, oh shit, like, so I found the thread and then just started pulling at it and then learning more about the science and the biological benefits of using your voice and the emotional and spiritual benefits of using your voice and how that could ripple into the rest of your world. And so, yeah, so now I'm creating the first ever vocal wellness platform that kind of marries like a Headspace model and a Duolingo model, puts them together and finds a way to make using your voice a daily practice that can be just yours. You don't have to do it in front of other people, but guaranteed, even within 5 minutes a day, you're going to be entering into your day differently and you are going to be entering into your day more confidently. And it's one of the greatest ways to activate the vagus nerve. It's one of the greatest ways to slow cortisol by just hanging out for 5 minutes. And maybe instead of just meditating in silence, bringing in a hum or bringing in some dynamic work within your voice, you can change the course of your day. And by doing it in a way where it's not saying like there's a right way and a wrong way. This is just you and you're getting more in touch with yourself and more and more comfortable with yourself. That then brings you to the world in a better way. So yeah, I've been iterating on that for about the last year or so and should be out at the end of the year.

Amazing. If people want to learn more, Where can they find you? Where can they check that out? Is it still in dark mode?

Yeah, we're still in dark mode. We're just about to start the beta testing in like 2 weeks, which is exciting. And then, yeah, I think it should be out. I mean, you can, you can, you can hit me up. Just email me at, I won't even, I won't even give the name away yet, but you can email me at lylelevinsky@gmail.com right now and I'll get you on, I'll get you on the, uh, the inside track.

All right, well, I happen to know that Lyle has raised a decent amount of capital, but there's still some road to go on the raising front. There is. Every great company is always raising, and he's in that journey now. So if you're interested in supporting a great human, and more importantly, a great human bringing something great that hasn't existed before, at least as far as I know, from a wellness perspective, We'll make sure we drop that link in the show notes.

I appreciate that a lot, man. Thank you. We're going to change a bunch of people's lives.

I'm watching it. And it's such an honor and a privilege to watch your evolution, your journey as a human. I'm not ready to go just yet. What limitation, right? We talked about the confidence standing on the stage at Red Rocks, but what limitations have you had to face or rewrite to step into that entrepreneurial journey?

Oh man, you've, I wanted to say this in a thank you if we were closing out right there, but I mean, you have been hugely, hugely impactful for me in my transformation here. I'm sure that you've probably talked about it on recent podcasts, but the Cloud Camp that just happened in for the Baby Bathwater crew, I did that last year. And it was one of the most transformative experiences of my life because I, there was a real imposter syndrome that was going on. You know, I got all the confidence in the world when you put a guitar in my hand or a mic in front of me. But also, you know, with the money, always feeling other with doing something outside of music and not having like full fully integrated the similarities and seeing where, how my career in the entrepreneurial world was as synonymous as I realize now. I had not given myself permission to be able to step into that world yet. I, it wasn't necessarily that I was telling myself that I couldn't. It just felt like there was a, why do I belong here? Or like, do I belong here? Like, why, how did I even get myself into this space? Like, I know I'm good at working systems, but like, I worked myself into a place that I'm kind of uncomfortable in. But what you and what some other incredible humans in the Baby Bathwater crew have really shown me is that it's like those are self-made walls. And I think much like I talk about the walls that we've built around our voices, I realized that I had walls around my abilities my deserving of success or even trying to go for the success in a different way than I had for the past 20 years. And they were all self-made. And so, I mean, over the last year, it's just been a— it's been an active pursuit of knocking down all the walls that I've built and wide open spaces so I can take a look at the view and really take it in. And you've helped me knock a lot of those walls down, whether you realize it or not.

I appreciate you, man. And it's been an honor to watch. And my compliment to you is every time I've seen, whether it's me or somebody else, reveal one of those walls, you smash through it. And it's that commitment to doing the work that I think is so beautiful. And I get to watch you do that every day. But what would you, what would you tell an artist or an athlete or even someone with a regular job that feels other, like, like entrepreneurship or maybe even money itself is other for them? What would you tell that person with what you've learned now?

Recognize that the walls that you feel are around you don't actually exist, that I mean, this sounds maybe a little, maybe this is a little too general, but that there really are no rules. And that if there is something that could drive you to joy, there's no better pursuit. If, and if that's money, if that's a passion, if that's going to talk to some girl across the room, by not doing it, it's safe. Fuck safe. Safe is a quick way to mediocrity. And I don't think any of us really want to live that. I think that we are going to— the purpose and passion are the juice of life to me. It's the thing that keeps us young at heart, but also wise of mind. And the more we pursue them, the more we grow as humans. And so, I mean, whether it's just a hobby, whether it's like, well, I've always wanted to play guitar, but like, I don't know, I can't do that. It's like, yeah, you're gonna suck for 6 months. And then you're gonna start to play all the songs that you've been wanting to play. And that's going to feel really good. Whether it's, you know, for me, I mean, shit, man, I'm down like 40 pounds in the last 7 months. It's like I just got it in my mind that it's like, well, I don't like gyms. It's like, cool. So I bought some weights. I don't have to go anywhere to do it. You know, it's like if there are problems, you're the only one that's going to be able to solve them. But you can do it with help and you can do it with friends. Surround yourself with the people who drive you. Surround yourself with people that inspire you. And the best thing to do is to start. You're going to learn so much along the way.

Well, you inspire me daily, my friend. And I really appreciate you coming on the show. I appreciate you sharing your journey with us. And thank you, man. Man, I can't wait to see you win.

Yeah, let's win together, man. We're going to share it all together. Only way. Great. Yeah. Thanks, Lyle. I really appreciate you, man. Thank you. And thank you for doing what you're doing here. You're bringing a lot of really important things to a lot of people.

Thank you, my friend. Cheers. Cheers, man.