E15 The Truth About Fit: What IESE Really Looks for in Candidates | Admissions Director Paula Amorim

Because something that is highly, highly important for us at YESA is what we call the cultural fit. So we want to bring people that we feel or we believe that have this internal drive to use their careers, their influence, their eventual power to make the world a better place.

Right?

So people that are aligned with ESA's mission.

Hi everyone. Welcome. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Paula Mooding, Admissions Director at ES Business School, to deep dive into a question that every MBA applicant once answered. What truly makes your application stand out? We're going to talk about how ESI evaluates fit, the qualities that they look for in candidates, the most common mistakes that applicants make, and what separates a strong applicant from an average one. If you're applying to Yezi or getting your application ready in the future, this episode is full of insider insights that you won't want to miss. So, Paula, thank you so much for sitting down with me. It's a pleasure to talk to you. How are you doing?

Yeah, thank you so much for the invitation. Elin, it's a pleasure to be here with you. I am great. Yes. Coming out of round two and now we're about to dive into round three. So exciting times that never stop.

Always fun to see the end of that admission cycle coming together, see the class really taking shape. Well, I'd love to start. Just tell us a little bit about you. How did you end up at ESA?

Well, my story with ESA actually started in 2020. Well, 14 when I started my MBA at the SA, it actually started in 2013 because that's when I was an applicant.

Right.

I decided that I wanted to do an MBA because I wanted a career shift. So my pre MBA story is a very typical one. So if I say probably 80% of the crowd will identify themselves with it. So I'm an industrial engineer and I was working with management consulting back in Brazil, where I'm originally from. And then after three years of career in consulting, I felt that I wanted a change because I wanted to do something that I felt more driven by and more motivated and more passionate. I think that consulting for me was a great school and I'm forever grateful. And it gave me a lot of structure and also exposed me to working with good people, which is also a good way to start your career. But I wanted something with more impact.

Right?

So then I decided that an international MBA would be a good vehicle to change careers. And I also wanted like a proper international experience.

Right.

I felt that I was a citizen of the world. And then when I Came to the mba, I realized that I was very Brazilian and I think that this is a very common feeling. So it was definitely a good decision from that perspective. So then I decided to look for an mba. I found in essay a very good fit because ESA is a mission driven school.

Right.

So we exist because we do believe very genuinely and strongly that management and leadership can be a force for good and we can use business to, to make the world a better place.

Right?

So if you have maybe now more than ever, companies running the world, if you have good leaders running these companies, we can have a better environment for everyone. So yes, it is all about this. It truly is. As an applicant, I believed it was. So then I decided to come to essay and I started in 2014 and I had two very happy, very intense, sometimes very frustrating. Two years and frustrating just because an MBA is something very hard.

Right?

A lot of work.

Yeah, it's a lot of work. And it's also about putting yourself in a level that you've probably never been before, right. Because you're talking about especially an MBA at PSA and mostly European schools are very international, are very diverse. You put yourself in a pool of people among a pool of people that you've never had this exposure before, right. And everybody's very interesting and very talented.

Right.

So you, you feel that you're always making up for things that others have and you don't.

Right.

When I was in Brazil and in my, in my short career that I thought it was very long and now I realized that it was very short. It was only four years, I was 27 years old when I started every, every recruiting process that I had applied to, I had been admitted, right. So I thought that I was like the queen of the recruiting processes and that I would nail every interview without needing a lot of preparation. And then when you are in an MBA environment, that's definitely not the case.

Right.

You can be fantastic. You still will need a lot of preparation because everybody else is very well prepared, at least the ones that are getting the job that you're not. That's why it's frustrating because you get many nos that you've never gotten before.

Right.

Like MBAs, we tend to be a bit spoiled by a so far very successful career.

That's how you got to a top mba.

Yeah, exactly. But then you come here and you're playing in a different league, right? So like during the process it can be very hard, but it also teaches you a lot.

Right.

And I feel that this is what essay has given me that it was this resilience, right? This sense of prioritization. Like, what's more important now? How do I organize my time? How do I structure myself? How do I keep myself on track for me to reach my goals? Yes. Is a very academically driven school. So study a lot. Piles of cases. Yes. So if career was not a challenge on its own, we top it with a very, very academically demanding course. Because the case method is amazing. But it also means that you have to do a lot of preparation, right? So there's. It's basically 19 months without free time. There's no free time in the life of a yesa students.

Right.

Because even if you're not studying or looking for a job, you are socializing, right? You're going to dinners and parties and hanging out with your friends, which is free time, but it's not really free time.

Right.

So there's a lot of. Not a lot of rest, not a lot of Netflix. No, no, definitely not. But it teaches you a lot of resilience, right? A lot of juggling, multiple very important tasks at the same time. It really builds like a very. A very strong mental state that will help you in the future.

Right.

I feel that the general feeling after you finish an MBA from essay is that if you've been survived essaying, you can probably survive many things in your life, you know? And this was definitely the feeling that I got. And I got many other experiences that really changed my life. And when I got to the end of the mba, well, as I said, I wanted a career with impact. I did my summer internship with a essay professor back in Brazil that has an educational ngo. Wow. And this was my hint that education might be an industry that I would be interested in after the mba. So that's why I took the summer internship. And then after the summer internship, I was fully decided that this was the industry that I wanted to stay. And then from there to essay was not a direct route, but it eventually came up. Right. So my. My career counselor was saying Cape Holland, so I can give you some advice, connect you with some people in education. Maybe you want to look in more, you know, like, yes, is an educational company. At the end of the day, if you haven't noticed, we are an educational institution. And. And as I said, the MBA experience had been very transformational for me. They had position for admissions in Latin America. So this would mean that I would be able to support and assist Latin Americans. And this very hectic moment of applying for an mba. And I know that as an applicant, I Had made many mistakes, many, many mistakes. And it wasn't a very enjoyable experience, to be honest. So I said, okay, maybe I can help people have a better experience during their application process.

Right?

So I had my own little mission that it was to help candidates. So there I sort of found my motivation and my passion and would also mean to spread the word of how great ESA is.

Right?

So it was like me helping Essay's mission and me also having my own mission that it was projecting myself and my mistakes in the candidates and say maybe they can do better than I did. No. And just enjoy themselves more. Right. Because I feel that the application process is a great opportunity. Absolutely. It's a great opportunity for you to reflect about your strengths, where you want to lead, right? Where you want to go, the person you want to become, how you're going to get there, how the business schools can help you. It can be great, right? But there are so many myths in applicants minds that it gets a lot, they get a lot in the way, right. Of you really having a genuine and authentic application process and journey. And I said, well, maybe I can help. And I think I have helped.

Oh yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I was very happy. I still am. It's just that now my job is very different, right. I was four years the admissions officer responsible for Latino America, based in Brazil, talking to all these great Latin Americans. And then in 2020 I was promoted and that's when I moved back to Barcelona. And now I'm the head of admissions here for the mpa.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Yeah, it's a great story and I love that about esa, that you guys tend to really focus on bringing people from within into the admissions committee. Can you maybe tell us a little bit about why ESA does that?

Yes, I can. Because something that is highly, highly important for us at ESA is what we call the cultural fit. So we want to bring people that we feel or we believe that have this internal drive to use their careers, their influence, their eventual power to make the world a better place.

Right?

So people that are aligned with ESA's mission and as I said, because ESA is such an intense experience, we also need to know if the candidates that we are, that we are interacting with would fit well in this experience.

Right.

That they, that they understand where they are getting themselves into.

Right.

Because it is very peculiar and not everyone is looking for such an intense experience, right? Like some people have had very intense careers and they want to use the MBA to network and have a break. Not to say that, yes, it cannot be the school for that. But while you're doing that, there will still be a lot of studying, right. And a lot of effort. Because we also believe, or a very strong pillar of ESA is what we call peer to peer learning. So this means that we believe that everybody that is on campus is here to contribute to their colleagues and their classmates development and growth. So for this, you need to be in class, you need to be on time, and you need to be prepared. So the free riders, they don't really. They are not a very good fit, right. And I think that people obviously have the rights to do whatever they want with their lives, right? They just need to find the. The school that would fit their goals the best.

Right.

Um, and I feel that when you've been through the sampa, you know very well what it takes, right? So it's easier for us as MBAs from essay to look at candidates and say, I think that you would be a good fit. I think that we have what you're looking for, and we think. And you have what we are looking for, right? So it's a lot about finding a good match because we want everybody to be happy at the end, right? Like, we want us to be a good fit for the candidates, and we want the candidates to be a good fit for us. It needs to have this balance. And we feel that by having lived, we can empathize better. Right? We can do a better assessment. We can project a lot of times, like our classmates or teammates on the candidates that we like. Oh, my God, this person really reminds me of Nico or reminds me of Daniela.

Right?

So this also helps with finding this fit. And I think I trust the model because the people that we bring on campus, you can see that they're all very able to keep this very strong culture, right? On collaboration, on professionalism, spirit of service and the ethics.

Right?

So, yeah, so that's why we are structured the way we are.

And I think it's interesting that you talked about fit, and I think the cultural fit is such a huge part of it. I always tell people it's kind of almost like getting into a relationship that you have to choose each other. You can love them, but maybe they don't love you or vice versa. You really have to choose each other. But beyond cultural fit, what makes a candidate stand out in the application process for you guys?

Well, I tend to split this question or my answer in two. The first one, I call them hygienic factors. Hygienic factors would be what every top business school is looking for, right? So we are going to. We are going to look at your professional development, right? Your career progression, how fast or how slow you have, you have climbed the ladder always with the specificities of each country, region or career, the school that you've attended, your academic performance, your GMAT or your gre. Of course. But this is what all top business schools are looking for, right? So with that we don't differentiate that much, but the cultural fit is really where we are more unique, right? Because then we can see how much that person would contribute. And I feel that a very, very, very strong cultural fit. If we believe that you would be a great person for essay because you could be a good ambassador, that you hold essay's values, this can compensate for some parts that might not be that great in this hygienic bucket. But if you want to talk about these more hygienic buckets, I think a way to stand out would be a fast career progression. So if you are in your early days or years of your career, think how you can get more responsibilities, how you can take on more so you can show that you're capable fast. So that you can maybe be considered for a promotion fast. So this is something that stand out not only for yesa but for all business schools, right? Like if you've progressed very fast, it definitely means that you're doing something right. So fast, fast promotions definitely stand out. I know that we should be looking into finding our passion, but moving jobs a lot always makes us doubt.

So.

So if that is the case, just make sure that you have a very good story and motivation and a reason to explain constant moves, right? We don't penalize automatically. If you have a good story, it can definitely justify, but it is something that sometimes if we see six months here, one year there. I've changed jobs a lot before the mba, so I am definitely that person. So I had three jobs before coming to ESA and I had only four years of work experience. So if you have these transitions well oiled, this can also help good academic performance. Yeah. And then if you, if something happened during your university years because life happens and maybe you are not happy with your course, maybe you chose the wrong course or you had family or personal problems, this can also affect the GMAT is a good way to compensate for a low academic performance, right? So if that was your case, then I would suggest studying harder for the GMAT to make sure this can compensate.

Right?

Extracurricular engagement can also be a good way for you, for you to prove you know that you have other interests. It doesn't have necessarily to just be volunteering.

Right.

Like, I remember when I was an applicant, I'm like, okay, if I need an mba, I need to do some volunteering. Do a volunteering. If this is something that you want to do. And it's very noble. And I think that we need more volunteers in the world. Yeah. But it can be personal interest, like hobbies and just for us to. Just for you to show us that you're more than just your career. I think that this is something that sometimes it's taken for granted. Every recruiter, not only for. For business schools, but for careers as well, they are looking into getting to know who you are holistically.

Right.

As a person, a full person, not only as a. A professional.

Right.

So bringing your passions also into the application and your CV can also make you stand out. Yeah.

I. Again, with applicants, I use the dating metaphor a lot. Like, if you go on a date and someone just talks about work can be a little boring. But if they're like, yeah, I'm training for an Ironman, or, you know, I have a knitting YouTube channel. Oh, that's so interesting. You know, that's somebody who's a little more. A little more engaging, might get a second date.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. You want to know more.

Right.

So something that, for me is very, very. It can be very specific, but I really like depth.

Right.

So not staying very superficial and on a very shallow level. Right. Where you can go deep and you can show topics that you're interested and passionate about.

Right.

These are interesting people, and this is who we want. Because at the end, we're not just recruiting people for the two years that they're gonna be on campus. We are recruiting alumni. Right. At the end, you're going to be an alumni much longer than you will be a student. So for us, it's also about how interesting and how much you would contribute to the alumni community even after you graduate.

And I think looking at those more hygienic factors, something that I get asked a lot is, does the school penalize me because I took the gre? Do you guys see the GRE and the GMAT differently? Do you have a preference?

No, no, there is no preference. I think that the difference is the GMAT was an exam that was built for business schools specifically. So I think that it can show more clearly the potential success, academic success, at least in the MBA itself. But if a candidate comes with a gre, it would definitely be considered as strong as a GMAT taker.

Right.

I would just warn candidates not to hide behind the green.

Right.

I feel that sometimes people may think that the GRE might be a better fit because it might be a little bit easier, and then they accommodate on a lower GRE score. And we have been seeing that this has been sort of a systemic, interesting attitude. And I would encourage candidates not to accommodate.

Right.

Like, if you are taking the GRE grade, we're very sure that it's a great examination. But, yeah, like, work hard to get a good GRE as well. You know, don't just accommodate and saying, yeah, I'm struggling, so I'm going to take the gre. And schools tend to be more accommodating with a low GRE than a low gmat.

And kind of along those lines, a lot of European schools have been moving more towards accepting the executive assessment as well. US schools as well. Is that something that ES is thinking about or considering?

No, we aren't. Every year we discuss it, but we're still not at the point that we are willing to accept because we have a very diverse pool of candidates coming from that very different backgrounds. And we cannot discriminate.

Right.

We cannot say this profile can take the executive assessment and this can't. If we're taking an exam, everybody needs to be able to present it. So we still believe that the GMAT and the GRE are a better preparation and a better demonstration of your potential. And it's also a proof of commitment. Yeah. You know, this is why I'm still a very strong defender of the tests. Although I don't think it's like a perfect representation of people's potential. People have different strengths and talents and sometimes they're just not good test takers. But the exams, they are an exercise.

Right.

One, they are testing your commitment because it is hard. I've studied eight months for the gmat. It was too much. I don't actually recommend anyone is studying this long. Like, I delayed applying in round one to applying round two to study more, and I would probably have gotten the same grade in round one if I had taken. So I think that there is a problem. Like there is a risk of just overstudying because you can't study forever. Basically, if you want, you can just study forever. But I think that it puts you, you know, like this is. I have to do this. I am committed with this plan. It's something that I'm going to crack, you know, so it really puts you in the mind state. And I think it's very important. That's why we don't consider Any wave, the executive assessment might mean that you can study less. And this doesn't necessarily put you enough taking the stamina and resilience that essay demands you to have. And maybe it's something particular of essay, right? Because we're very academically driven and you need to come and the first term is very intense and very hard. We believe it's nice to have this preparation time and then it's a little bit longer because it will probably prepare you more for what's about to come. Sometimes we see this even with earlier round applicants and later round applicants, right? Later round applicants, they apply in May and they start the program in August, right. Like it's three months. You haven't completely understood that your life is about to change forever. Yeah. When you're around one, around two applicants, right? Like you are sort of cooking that, that dream and that expectation, right? And then, then when it comes, you're ready for it. Like if, if it's very late, many times you still haven't landed, right? And we believe that the, the exams, they are especially important for that. Apart from obviously the more objective assessments, but from sort of an onboarding or like putting you in the correct mind state, we think it's important.

And I know you talked about this a little bit before, but also in the application that Yazi emphasizes the international perspective. How do you guys assess these qualities in applicants?

Well, international experience is definitely a plus just for the simple fact that is a concrete evidence that the person has been able to handle a more diverse environment, right? Because we talk a lot about diversity and internationality and it's for sure a great thing to have. But it's also super challenging, right, to be away from your culture, your habits, your family, right. It can be very, can be very tough in the beginning. So having the international experience, it's like a concrete proof that you've done it, you've enjoyed it and you want more, right? But if you don't, because many times we don't have, right. Many times we want to use the MBA as our first international experience. This is totally fine. You just have to find other ways to prove that you can handle diversity, right? That you, that you do go out outside of your bubble and that you handle different profiles, right? It can be other departments, other levels in the company, right. Maybe foreigners or different people in your community, right? There are, there's that there are definitely ways to show, but it's important to sort of show this, that you can be a culturally sensitive person, right? Because yes, it is a lot about that like, we really want people that will come here and respect each other. It's fine. You don't have to agree with all the cultures and the way that people do things all around the world. There's a lot of disagreements, but you have to respect.

Right.

And there needs to be sort of this mutual respect and understanding even if you don't agree. So that's where the international experience would come in. It's a good to have. It's not a must have. It's like leadership experience.

Right.

If you have rate, it means that you're senior enough and you've lived more and you can also contribute to the class. But it's not a must have. Because many people are coming here because they want to be good leaders in the future.

Right.

And investment bankers don't. Or consultants don't always get the chance in their career path to have that before.

Yes, yeah, yeah. Or if you're young, you're three, four years of work experience, maybe you haven't had. It's great, right? If you're 26 and you're already managing people, we're like, wow, okay, this was a fast track career. Yes. But it doesn't always happen, right. Sometimes you're in a career that just. Engineers are a lot like that, right? Like, engineers tend to have a very slow progression because they come from very technical backgrounds. And you stay doing the same thing for four years, five years because there's just not to where. Where to grow. And we understand that. And many times they want to use the MBA to move away from this more technical room.

And we've talked a little bit about essays, and I think that's probably after the gmat, the second most stressful part of the application for people. What would you say makes a great essay and what makes a bad one?

A great essay is an ESS essay that shows a lot of research. This is definitely what makes an essay stand out.

Right.

And we love to see that we are the number one on people's list. Of course, everybody wants to be the number one. So it's very disappointing when you just see a very generic essay, right. An essay that it could be for us, it could be for another school. So a good essay is an essay that has. Shows that. That the candidate has done good research on the school, that the candidate has done good reflection on themselves.

Right.

So our essays now are very short. We have very few essays. If you want, you can do only one essay. Because if you're not applying for a scholarship and you don't have anything to say in the optional essay, you are left just with the career essay.

And it's pretty short compared to other schools. Like you don't have a word count.

Yeah. So we've tried to make it short, but then, then it needs to be good quality, right? Because it's not that you have a lot to work on, so we go for quality instead of quantity. And then on the career side, because I know that this is something that generates a lot of anxiety on applicants because many candidates are doing the MBA because they want to figure out what they're going to do with their careers, because they have no clue, right? And then they're like, okay, can I put this in the essay? No, you cannot put that. You don't know. Well, you can, you shouldn't, right?

Yeah, you can do, you can do.

Whatever you want, but you shouldn't if you are not completely sure, have hypotheses, assumptions. Okay. This would be my plan A. If this is your plan A, a potential plan A, do research on your plan A.

Right?

So if you are an American that wants to work in the sports industry in Europe, talk to people, talk to Americans that have done this transition, see what their, their path is, have been what they had to do to get there. I think it's important to show that you, you have based your answers on substantial argument, you know, so this research is important because also it also shows intentionality, shows maturity, right? Because if you, if you just read like very random and very romantic, unrealistic, you have no idea the world is. Right?

Yeah, yeah.

I was applicant. I was definitely that applicant. I had no idea. So talking to people is very important. You know, like LinkedIn is amazing. You know, like go in LinkedIn, do your filters, you will find people and then people from usa, people from the other schools that you're applying.

Right?

So this is how you do a good research. You don't do a good research, just cracking the website and, and attending online events. The online events are great, but they are part of the, the journey. Right? This is how you should start. Okay. Start by researching the website. You like the school. Great. Join an online event. You like the online event. Join a personal, an in person event. Right? And then talk to alumni and current students.

Right?

Talk to us as well. At essay, we are very accessible and available. We really like to talk to candidates. So at some point there you can talk to the admissions team. But talking to current students and alumni is crucial, right? Because they will prove a lot of your hypothesis, right? Prove or improve. Prove that it's Right or wrong, but they will give you the reality.

Right.

Because as applicants, we come with a lot of dreams. And then if we don't do good research, we are just going to wait for these dreams to be crashed during the mba, which is not a good situation, Right?

Not a good.

It's better to crash them a little bit before and then come in with a more realistic plan and understand that maybe the dream is not going to come right after your mba. Maybe your dream is going to be fulfilled one or two steps after the mba. Two, three years. We tend to be very immediate and short term, but the MBA is there. We are not that headhunting platform.

Right.

Like, we're really preparing you for your career. So the more ready or more researched you are about where you want to go in your career before you come in, the easier your path is going to be. So my journey has been so hard also because I came with very idealistic ideas, hypothesis that I didn't test with anyone before I came, right. So I waited for my idealistic vision to be crashed while I was here and then I had to redo it.

Right?

So it can get very, very frustrating and very disappointing. But then if you do this before, it definitely stands out in the essay.

Right?

And then we're like, okay, this person understands what they want. You can come to the MBA and everything might change. It doesn't matter, Right. You've already done a lot of the work and this really shows, Right. And practical advices. Do your essays and then run it by some sort of generative AI platform so you can find maybe better ways to say it, correct the mistake, you know, like now in this age, I find it super disappointing when I see grammar mistakes.

Yeah, yeah, you know, exactly.

It's like, come on, you didn't even made the effort to run it through ChatGPT or Copilot, you know, anyway, I don't think that the. It's not in the essay that we're going to test your English level, right? So in the essays I want to see your authentic ideas. But it also needs to be well written, Right. And in the ages that we live today, I think that it should be well written, like revised at least. But then having the other way around, right? Like having like just a very simple prompt that you put there and it gives you a very generic. We are trained.

Yeah.

You read a lot of essays. You know, I can know.

I've heard this essay before.

Yeah. So one day we got an applicant that put the essay and it even had the prompt. Yeah. No yeah, it was an immediate reject.

Right.

Like, okay, this person is not really interested in us.

You didn't even proofread your application if you didn't touch that.

Exactly. You know, and that's why. Okay, so touching another point here. That's why it's very dangerous to do many applications at the same time.

Yeah.

Right.

So I would always encourage candidates to have an application strategy.

Right.

So if you have time, apply to three, maybe four maximum in the round one. And then if you don't get these three, four, then maybe you can try another three in round two.

Right.

Because then you're not. You don't find yourself with eight different applications where you're gonna have to write or ask recommenders to write 8 or 16 different recommendation letters. It's just not going to be good. You cannot have eight excellent applications at the same time.

Right.

So this is also something that I always advise candidates to, to think strategically.

Right.

Sometimes we're like, I know, but I'm gonna hedge and I have to guarantee that I'm going to have my safe options. But then you just spreading yourself too thin and you're not going to have anything that deep on the research.

Right?

Yeah. It's important to focus and have a clear priority list because then you can really show your passion and your motivation for each school.

And we've had clients, of course, you know, against advice, do that in the past. And even just thinking about interviews, you know, logistically, most of those are going to happen within about a month long range. Right. And trying to fit in potentially eight interviews in four weeks. How can you prepare well for all of those, you know, talking to people, doing the research, practicing, it's really, it's really difficult and exhausting as well.

It is, it is.

And it's just not going to be well done.

Right.

And that's it. Admissions teams are very well trained. They will know.

Right.

And if motivation is a big criteria, then it might hurt your chances.

Right.

And okay, if you are a great candidate, maybe, maybe we will still admit you, but maybe you're not going to get a great scholarship.

Right.

Because we're like, if they don't like us as much, maybe we're not going to put that much effort, you know, so it's important to know your priorities very well as well.

And when he's looking at scholarships, what are some of the main criteria that they look for when deciding who they're going to give one to and who Maybe not.

Yeah. So the scholarship is very, very competitive. Unfortunately, we're not as Rich as the American schools. I think that this is a general situation in Europe. So it's very unlikely that you find a full ride in Europe if there's no institution behind that could offer this big grant. So it will be very competitive.

Right.

And I think that this is, this is something that candidates need to already expect. It's also true that the whole cost of attendance in Europe tends to be much lower, right?

True. Yeah.

So this is something for people to weigh when they are also comparing the different scholarships, right. But anyway, not to deviate from the question, we have two big criteria, right? Merit and need. On the need side, we don't go very technical. We are going to believe anything that you say. But of course, please be true, tell us the truth. On the need side, what we would like to assess and to get more information from the candidates. It's not where you're coming from, because where you're coming from, we know and I have a very international team. So I usually have people from the region covering the region. So I wouldn't spend that much time talking about it just to say because I have very, very specialized people, let's, let's put it like this, that know how much the currency has devaluated. So I wouldn't waste the words to talk about that.

Right.

But maybe you have a personal situation, right? Maybe you have, you're still paying your undergraduate degree, right? Some people already have that. So maybe you're paying your own debt, maybe you're paying for your siblings education. This happens in many cultures, right? You are the eldest, one of your parents passed and you have to support or they are retired, they cannot support and you're, you're paying for their education or just their living costs or like a health problems. So these are very specific and we will take into consideration or maybe you come from a very humble family, right? And, and you've had to help with the house expenses and, and you haven't been able to save, right? So maybe you have a good salary but you support your family and this has led you to have like less savings, right? So if you have those particular situations, I would encourage them to use the scholarship essay to talk about them, not to make it all about it. Because then we have the second part that is the merit, right? So the scholarship essay is the opportunity that you're gonna have to really sell yourself, right? But it is the moment to show off your, your successes, right? Your everything that you, your achievements. So if you've done great at university or like a great project that you've been in.

Right.

So something that you feel very proud, something that would make you stand out. It could even be your personal hobbies, enter your personal interests. This can make you be like a very interesting person.

Right.

That I, I would like to have you in class because this is what the scholarships are also for.

Right.

It might be on the need, it might be on the merit. So if you are a very cool person, it means that maybe other schools will also want you.

Right.

So then I might put more money on the table to have you in my school.

Right.

So it's really showing how special you are at the end.

Right.

And so the scholarship essay is a great opportunity to do that. And you can also complement with the optional essay that it's just an open ended question. What, what would you like to share with the admissions team that you felt you didn't have the opportunity to share before?

Right.

So you can talk about anything. Anything. You can talk, you can talk about like a life changing trip you took to Southeast Asia and the local people that you've met, or you can talk about a person that you've met that mentored you and really changed the way you see the world. I don't know. It can be anything. It's one of the essays that I like the most.

Yeah, I like that one too.

Yeah. People don't like me to say this in my team because they're like, Paola, you're just incentivizing people to write one more essay that we'll have to read.

We have it for a reason.

But I personally like it because then you also see what the person chose to talk about.

Right.

But yeah, this is on the scholarship and this is how we allocate.

Right.

So it is, it's, it's going to be, we are going to weigh. It also depends when you're, you're coming from how rare your profile is.

Right.

Sometimes if you're coming from a more overrepresented region, maybe things will get very competitive. So we'll have to allocate scholarships more strategically.

Right.

So it depends on different various factors. It's definitely not a hard science. It's a very hard thing to do. It's us looking at the overall pool, looking at each person. So it's collective and individual at the same time.

Right.

Which makes it very hard. Yeah, but this is how, this is how we try to do it.

And what about the assessment day? Is there anything that candidates should keep in mind while they're participating?

Yes, many things to keep in mind. So the assessment day comes very much in hand with whole cultural fit assessment, right? Like, how great of a fit would you be at? Yes. In. So it's basically to see candidates on a very different setting that we have seen before, right? Because if we haven't been in touch or even if we have been in close contact with the candidates, we haven't seen them in a team. So what the assessment day is really doing is trying to show us how you would work in a team. Because a TSA is very important. We are basically just working teams. You come here, you're assigned to a team, you meet this team every day. It's the same team throughout the year, the first year. So it is a very collective oriented school, right? And it's a moment that people tend to lower their guards and be more genuine and authentic, right? Because it's also very hard to be the full assessment. Very conscious of every single word that comes out of your mouth and your gestures and your body language, right? So it's like, okay, so let's put people in a, in a setting that we can maybe see their more natural side, right? And see how they. And how they perform. So this is basically what we are assessing, right? It's your ability to work in teams, how respectful you are with others, how you communicate, how you think, right? How engaged you are.

Right?

Because then this is also something that you have to balance. You want to show your engagement, but you don't want to be the person that is overpowering everyone, right? Because then it's just very annoying to have that person in the team, right? That person that wouldn't shut up and maybe stealing the offer, the chance that other people that might have had better things to say than you just didn't have the chance because you would just take over the whole discussion, right? So. So these are the things to keep in mind. These are the things that we are assessing, right? So try to be as natural and thoughtful that you can, right? You don't have to show off a lot. So don't feel you have to be the person talking all the time because there is an inflection point, right? So, okay, it's good that you participate, but then after a point, it's just too much and it's just going to be fully assessed, you know, and, and seen. And usually there's not much preparation. If you are working with the virtual session, then yes, there's a case to prepare. So it's also good that you're well prepared because we can, we can see it. But if you're doing an in person, one depends on where you go. In Sao Paulo, in New York now they're also working with the case. But in Barcelona we always have a surprise for candidates. So there's not much to prepare other than like just being in the right attitude.

Don't, don't panic. Do prepare, but don't panic.

Yeah. And try to enjoy.

Right.

Because I feel that the assessment day is also a good opportunity for people to feel, see how they would feel in this environment.

Right.

Do I like being in this, in this setting? Do I like to be in such an international team? Do I like to have of people that will disagree with me constantly? It's a good opportunity. So I would also encourage people to like, relax and enjoy.

Right.

And also be mindful that many of these people will be admitted and they might be your colleagues and your classmates.

Right.

So you don't want to create a bad impression either.

Yes, that's good advice. I never thought about that before, but yes, absolutely. So let's get into our Fast Pass insights. This is the part of the podcast where we shoot you some rapid fire questions. So what is one word that would describe the ideal ESA applicant?

I think that it would be someone that is well driven and well prepared. I think that these are two very good, very good expressions to define an ideal candidate. Well driven and well prepared.

What's the biggest essay cliche to avoid?

Maybe sometimes people try to say what they think we want to hear. Yeah, I think that that's a cliche that you should avoid because you don't know what we want to hear. You think you do, but you don't. This is something that I learned being an applicant and being in the admission side.

Right.

It's like you're not going to know.

Right.

So don't make assumptions and write what, write what you really believe and what's really true to you and hope that is what we want to hear. Because if it isn't, then it also means that it might not be a good fit.

Right.

And that's the best thing for everyone.

And what's the first thing you notice when you look at an application?

Well, if we're talking about cv, it is about the career journey, right. Where you graduated, then your first job, then your second job. So how you progressed and the impact that you've had on each of them.

Right.

And then when we go on into more details is. Okay, so what's the story that you're telling?

Right.

Because I can see your cv. So how does your CV or how do you translate your CV to your story and the person that you are.

And what's an instant interview? Red flag.

So body language is a very important part. So how you're dressed is important. So just to keep in mind, you don't have to be suited up completely, but to show a professional outlook is very important. There was once that I was interviewing a person and the candidates rank directly from a milk box. If you want to drink milk is okay, but put it in a glass, you know, so these things matter because they show other, other things. So this is a red flag how, how you portray yourself.

Right.

You don't have to be like a consultant, you know, like with the sweater, you don't have to be that. But in your world, in your reality, be as professional as you can.

Right.

It's one of the underlying values of ESA is professional excellence.

Right.

So we think that you need to be professional when you're coming to an interview and be prepared.

Right.

Practice. Practice is very important. If I asked you to tell me about yourself, have an answer that won't last more than three minutes, I don't want to hear about your story for 10 minutes because otherwise I won't be able to cover all the other questions that I have.

Right.

But train, you know, like practice, there are very standard questions that will probably be answered in every interview. So practice is also very important.

And you have a limited amount of time. You've got to get through a certain number of questions, a certain number of things. And I always tell applicants, if you tell me about yourself in 10 minutes, there's a lot of things I don't learn about you that I learned about somebody else. And they have an advantage at that point.

Definitely, definitely.

And what's your golden buzzer insight for ESC applicants? One small but powerful change that they can make that will instantly strengthen their application.

I think that developing relationships with the community.

Right.

So being very close to your admission officer makes a huge difference, but also with other people in the community. But it's also important, like if you talk to current students, if you talk to alumni, that these were relevant, substantial conversations.

Right.

So just a LinkedIn message that the person answered is not enough for you to put it in the application that you've talked to that person.

Right.

Like, if you talked and engaged and followed up, kept in touch, then, yeah, that person can be a reference. But so make sure that the interactions that you have are meaningful and that they can be used as a reference in the application. But that's definitely something that it really stands out.

Right.

When we see that the person has done the research and has tried to be close to our community. That definitely is a good.

And our final round. If you had to give just one piece of advice to every MBA applicant.

What would it be to enjoy the journey? I think that the application process can be seen as a big privilege, especially because we're talking about the moment, usually a moment on people's career that we've worked for five, four or five years, usually on a very automatic mode, right? Like you graduate university, you start your job, and then if you didn't stay in your job, you're probably just like trying to get to the other job that you're going to like more, you know, like, and it's very fast paced and like sometimes very automatic. And you never get the chance to stop and reflect where you really want your career to go, who the person that you really want to be, what your strengths are. So this was something that I remember, I still remember when I was doing my essays. I would struggle a lot to know where my strengths were. And it's crazy. We should be the people that we know the most, but we don't because we don't. We don't think about ourselves. So I think that the application process can be a very empowering opportunity. I think that this is the best piece of advice because then if you really see this as an opportunity of growth, then you're gonna do everything that you can to do it the best way, right? And then the best way is connecting with alumni, students coming to visit the campus. I know it's not always possible because it can be very expensive, depending on where you've, where you're coming from and you know, like your financial situation. So again, it's not a must, but if you can, it's great, right? Because then you, you know how you feel when you enter campus and is something very important. So I think that enjoying and seizing this moment is, I think it's a good opportunity and I think it would just make you happier.

I always think everyone should apply for an MBA or go through the process, even if they're not planning, because it does just give you so much clarity about where you want to be, where you want to end up. You know, we work with executive MBAs. Sometimes they're like, yeah, I'm 40 and now I'm here and my options are kind of limited in terms of how I can switch. And I wish I'd done this, you know, when I was 27, so that I could have thought about my impact and my legacy. So Absolutely. I think it's a great process for growth if you give yourself the time and you commit to the process.

Yes, I agree. Awesome.

Well, thank you so much. These have been amazing insights. I really, really appreciate your time.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Eileen, for the opportunity to share.

Of course. Well, if you haven't already, check out our other podcast with Paula where we're talking more about esa. And if you're planning to apply to essay or thinking about another school, visit our website@EllenLawis.com to learn more about working with us. So thanks so much. Have a good rest of your day.