What It’s Really Like to Study at the Kellogg MBA | Valentina Tasende and Arthur Libanio

Like, some people are way more heavy into the academics. Some people are just, like, purely recruiting as social. Some people are purely social. Finding your balance and understanding, like, okay, this gives me energy, this doesn't. How do I build, like, a little bit of a routine at least? Like, we are very routine oriented people, and at the beginning, there wasn't any routine.

Takes a time for you to learn your routine.

Yeah.

And learn what you want to prioritize as well. Because in the beginning, you want to embrace everything, and you quickly realize that if you keep doing that, you're gonna burn yourself. So you have to understand, what do I want to do? What are my priorities here? Yeah. And try to focus on that.

Yeah.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Arthur and Valentina, a couple who both went through the Kellogg MBA experience together. Kellogg is famous for its collaborative culture, strong community and leadership focus. But what is it really like, beyond the glossy brochure and fancy websites, what are the surprises, the challenges, and the game changing moments that applicants should know about before they step onto campus? So if you're considering Kellogg or just want to hear what it's truly like from the inside, this episode is for you. So, Valentina and Arthur, thank you so much for joining me today. It's a pleasure to see you guys again.

Thank you for inviting us. A pleasure to be here.

Thank you for having us.

Yes, of course, of course. Always good to catch up. And could you start us off today maybe by just telling us a little bit about your kind of your background?

Yeah. So I'm Valentina. I'm originally from Uruguay. I've been living in Brazil for the past 10 years. I started the MBA journey. We started it together, and I'm now working in consulting after a few years in the startup world.

Hi, I'm Arthur. I'm originally from Brazil. I lived in Brazil for almost all my life. And before the mba, I was working in consulting and in finance. And after my MBA in Kellogg, I. I started working in consulting again here.

In the US and so let's talk a little bit about your Kellogg story for you guys. Walk us through that moment when you both realized, okay, Kellogg is the one. Tell me what sealed the deal for you.

Yeah. So first we started understanding, like, okay, do we both want to do an mba? And if it was in the US the answer was yes. So we both chose the schools that we thought had a better fit with our profiles. We had a couple that were not the same. And then what we did is we applied. I think he applied more on round one and then he got into Kellogg first and I got into another one and then we went to visit. And I think that's what made us really fall in love with Kellogg at the beginning. And when we went there, I think it was February.

Yeah, we went on February, middle of winter.

Yes. So true love. So that was a commitment. Middle of winter, very white. But we just fell in love with one. I think Evanston, like the little town. I think the campus also was a big selling point for us. Like we could see us having the day to day there and it was very convenient to do all around. We are walkers. Like we like to walk in general. So I think like that cozy vibe of being a small town with a very good infrastructure made it for us. And just like when we went to the campus just felt very comfortable. And I think that was, we came out of that trip being like. Yeah, I think I would add also.

That when we went to visit both schools that we were considering, I think when we got to Kellogg, the welcoming that the community gave us was very important because we had friends that were studying in Kellogg and gave us the tour of the campus and introduced us to other people and showed us how the life at the global hub is and what there is there to do. We felt kind of at home. At least I did at the time.

Yeah, I think it felt very cozy. It felt like people had a lot of interactions also outside of the academic environment. I feel like it was easy for those relationships to be built versus the other school that we were considering.

So we went to visit the other schools place as well. And we didn't see a lot of students at the campus while a Kellogg. Even if it were like it was a Saturday, I think, or a Wednesday, it was not a normal class day.

Right.

But a lot of people were still in the hub so we felt like people would, were leaving that life.

Yeah, I, I would say like if you have the chance to go to the school in person, it definitely made a difference for us and it definitely kind of like helped us project how our life would look like during those two years.

Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think before we went to do the tours, we were more set towards the other schools.

Yeah, because you have like, you have a picture in mind. But then when you're there, of course, like things materialize in a different way and you perceive different things. And I think that's why, like. And it was a super, super fast trip. Like we took four days, we did the two schools that's all we did.

Wow.

Yeah, it was like super, super fast and. But, but worth it. Super worth it.

Yeah, definitely. That's something with a lot of clients over the years that you step onto campus and there's just this kind of intangible feeling like, yes, this feels right or no, this feels wrong. And I think it's hard to know what that's going to be until you're there. So. Yeah, definitely. I think visiting is great advice.

And not only the campus, you step into the city and you see if you can live there or you cannot.

Yeah.

And that's. We saw ourselves living in Evanston, but not in the other school.

Yeah, I think it's very like personal. Right. Like how your life, how what, what are your lifestyle choices and then if you see them being replicated in, in that city or slash like environment. And so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. It's just like try to project how your life will look like. Because two years, it's a big amount of time. Right. So yeah, I think that one for us, like both of us had the same feeling when we get got to the Global Hotel. It was luckily. Yeah, that luckily.

You guys agree. And you talked a little bit about the Global Hub for people who are just learning about Kellogg. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that's like and what does it mean? Is it just, you know, oh, it's the fancy building or how does that kind of fit into the Kellogg experience?

Yeah, so it's definitely a fancy building. It's a new building. But the Global Hub is basically the building where you will have almost all your classes. Right, right. So you, you'll have. And I think it's all where the faculty sits and then there's like the PhD side also to it. But it's a big, big building that oversees the river, the lake actually, which is like the views are just fantastic and it's just where people hang around. There's a cafeteria there. You can have like lunches with the different faculty and professors. You'll have like your club meetings there. So like a lot of it, the, the student life happens around the hub. You are next to the big gym of Northwestern. So like it's very convenient there. And from like the location, it's think like a 25, 20 minute walk. Depend on your pace. Depends on, on your pace. But super, super nearby. Centrum. Some people go with like electric scooter scooters. Some people we walked like I would say it's like, rare people going on cars, unless it's winter. And like, those weeks in winter that are, like, super, super cool, which is fair. You also have, like, a bus, which is free for. For Kellogg and Northwestern. And so, like, there are many ways to get there. Sometimes you can spend the whole day. Sometimes, like, people will come back and forth during the day. There's also where you have, like, events, like company events or speaker series or anything of that sort. So it's kind of like everything happens on that.

Exactly. Everything's on the Hub. You have everything you need. The infrastructure is amazing. The classrooms are great. I think across the buildings that we compare. Yeah, it really stand out. And it's the community, because the Hub is designed so everyone kind of meets each other. So you have to go through this atrium when you enter, when you exit the building. So where you see everyone that's in the building. So that kind of speaks to the community that Kellogg's trying to build. During winter, people would just stay at the Hub for the whole day because they might have some classes in the morning, might have some classes in the afternoon.

Yeah, just very conducive to just, like, the social aspect. Outside of the classroom, you can book rooms for the team stuff that you have. So, like, you have the cafeteria. You have, like, a lot of space to just socialize. You have space to work, you have space to relax. Yeah, there's a club that performs, like, choreographies and dancing and so, like, they can. They can train there. There's another club that trains for, like, instruments and, like, the band. There's a lot of life that happens around the Hub, of course, like, summer, there's a bunch of activities, but even in winter, I just liked hanging out there. And if I had classes in the morning and in the afternoon, you just end up spending the whole day.

I would stay most of my days in winter at the Hub. And even now that they are renewing the old stadium of Northwestern and they're rebuilding the Executive center at the Hub, the Hub became, like, a more centralized part of the catalog experience. Now, even when Northwestern is playing some football games, some professors have rooms where you can see the games.

Even, like, if you have any questions or you want to dive deeper into something from the classes. You can, like, schedule time with the professors and, like, everything is in the same building. So that's super convenient then. I know that now also rebuilding their executive building, like the executive mba, which is, like, in front of the Hub. So now they're getting their, like, also fancy building. So. So Yeah, I think it's just like a very core part of the experience is being around the global hub.

Yeah. Also, I would add that the commute to the global hub is part of the experience.

Yeah. For those who walk, at least most.

Of the people walk to the hubs back during spring to autumn, and you see a lot of people that you know, and. And you cross paths when you're coming back or going to the hub. And it's just a time where you can take like 20 minutes to talk to somebody.

Yeah, that's true.

And meet something new or catch up, or if you don't want to talk, you just want to walk, that's fine.

And what's something about the MBA experience that caught you guys completely off guard? And it can be academically, socially, personally, any part of the experience.

I think for me, everyone tells you, but I don't think you realize how big it is until you go through it yourself. The social aspect is really big. And so at the beginning, it takes a big toll on just like your energy because your day is so filled and you have to wear different hats throughout your day. Right. Like, you wear your recruiting, like your professional aspect. Then you were like, you're academic, like, you're a student. And then you, like, have to make. Not have to, but like, everyone wants to make friends and connect with different people. That's a big part of why you're there. And so I think at the beginning, like the first two, three months, like the. The. The social one, anxiety and exhaustion. And at the beginning, you think it's you, but then you realize everyone's on the same boat, everyone's feeling the same, and there's so much to do that getting good at understanding what you really want to go and what is, like, something that you're excited about versus I could do it, but maybe, like, there's a ton of. It takes some time to calibrate that.

I totally agree with that. I'll just add that things definitely improve with time. But those three first months are very hard, not only for the social part, but because you're mixing a new life with meeting new people and with the recruiting that luckily we didn't have to do. We saw other people having to go through the recruiting process. And when you combine all those three new things that you're going through in that period of your life, things can become very stressful. And you also have to balance that with the academic as well, because that's one of the reasons you're there.

Yeah, you're back to being A student, which, like, I think for most of us being like, on the, on the workforce, you just, like, it's different. And I think for us as internationals, you're, like, thinking, living in a different language, understanding new culture, then you have to read up to everything in your life. Right. Because, like, it's not your home, it's not your, your country. You're not surrounded by people, you know, and so, like, and everyone kind of is going through the same. That's the beauty. And also, like, the challenge is like, kind of no one is from Evanston. Right. Like, some people are from Chicago maybe, but, like, everyone kind of like, comes together to Evanston and so everyone's new to the town. Like, some people are, like, way more heavy into the academics. Some people are just, like, purely recruiting and social. Some people are purely social. I think you, you like finding your balance and understanding. Like, okay, this gives me energy, this doesn't. How do I build, like, a little bit of a routine at least? Like, we are very routine oriented people. And at the beginning there wasn't any routine. Yeah. So I think, like, that, that is, that was challenging.

It takes a time for you to learn a routine.

Yeah.

And learn what you want to prioritize as well. Because in the beginning you want to embrace everything and you quickly realize that if you keep doing that, you're going to burn yourself. So you have to understand, what do I want to do? What are my priorities here?

Yeah.

And try to focus on that.

Yeah. But it's something that, like, you can tell people. I don't think you understand how it impacts you until you go through it. And then there's kind of like no way to prepare, really, other than, like, going through it and being, like, mindful of where you're going and how that's impacting you during that phase. So, yeah, you can say, you know.

We talked about, you know, the difficulty of saying no in your letter recommendation, and here we are putting that lesson into the practice in real life. But it is, it's so exciting, too. It's not that, oh, I want to overwhelm myself. It's that there's so much cool stuff to try out and you've never seen it before.

And it's all new and all these.

Fun new people to meet. And Kellogg has so many cool social events.

Yes.

That it's hard just to want to go, stay, stay inside, take a nap.

And, like, no one wants to be the person that's like saying no at the beginning, especially, Especially when, like, you're meeting people and finding your people. Everyone is trying to find their people. Right. Like the cohorts. And so it's. I think it's a natural thing. I don't think it's a particular Kellogg thing. I think, like, from talking to our friends in other MBAs, I think it's an MBA type of thing.

One thing that I also thought it was good in Kellogg, and you experienced that more than I did, was that we got to slowly get you to the rhythm as well, because we had that first month where we were having no classes, but we had that international program where we got to go to Caleb, meet international students as well.

Yeah. So for international students, Kellogg has the ACE program. I don't know if they do it every single summer. I believe they do where, like, you start having lessons on, like, kind of like, what are the American class culture things that you should be aware of. Like, for example, like, you should read your cases, like, if the professors are going to expect your participation. And I think, for example, coming from South America, that's not always the case. Like, you first don't have to read cases. But two, it's not very encouraged participation. And so I think that's something that you need to adjust. And so, like, you have this three weeks, I think, at the beginning, where it's very light on, like, the. The weight of classes. Yeah. And the content. But you start, like, meeting the internationals that are there, getting used to the. To the rhythm, like, building your furniture. Next year. You need time to, like, go.

You need time to go to ikea.

You need to understand, like, okay, how do I make this feel home somehow? And it just helps you, because then when the MBA actually starts, then you have familiar faces, like. Right. You have people that you've talked to and that you've spent the last three weeks with. And so I think that really helped, too.

Yeah, that's a great program. And also nice that you have someone to help you build the furniture.

Yeah, no, it was just like, we would go to classes. He didn't do it because he had something else in the middle and he couldn't participate. But basically what we would do is, like, I'll go to the lessons, and then by 3, 4pm I'll be back home. And we will build furniture or, like, buy some furniture. Like, build a portion of the. Of the apartment.

But the form of building furniture, it was a good way to bond with other people. Yeah.

We also built furniture for other people.

Because what we saw is, like, Evanston, almost everyone live in the same buildings. And you have the building that we lived was only Kellogg students. It was not like a Kellogg building, but only Kellogg still doesn't live here. So you would see everyone, and when everyone is moving at the same time, you would just help them out. You would do these group dinners. You will hang with them. So I think that's another positive point for Caleb. The community is very close and very neat together.

Definitely one of the benefits of being in kind of, I get the smaller community. Right. Not in the middle of this huge urban center. Right, Exactly.

Yeah. Which is part of the reason why we chose it. Right? Yeah.

Makes sense. And how would you describe the academic experience? You talked a little bit about it, but how intense was it and how much was it really about collaboration versus kind of this individual success? I want to do better than my.

My colleagues, I would definitely say. I particularly did not feel that competitiveness of, like, I want to do better. I, I, I think Kellogg does demand participation in like, like presence in class. Right. Like, so it's not a school that you can just show up for the, for the test or like the, the review and then it's fine. Like, you are really, really tracked on the attendance. Yes, yes. So I think that, like, helps to make sure that at least, like, portion of the class is going to be there at the beginning. You have core classes, which I think can be a little bit controversial. And, like, some people, like, because we were all being leveled right, to like, make sure that you have the same type of knowledge.

Right.

And you can waive some, some part of it. I didn't. He did. He did wave some. And I think those classes can be a little bit, like, more uncomfortable at the beginning because you're like, oh, I've seen this. I don't feel super comfortable with, like, going through it again. But it helps also ease you up onto how the classes are. There's a lot of homework. Like, I think that was something that surprised me. There's a lot of homework that you need to submit. A lot of it is group based. There are, I think, two type of groups. One that you can choose, it's rare, the ones that you can choose the people in your group. And I think that's obviously intentional by design. Right. Like, because one of the ways you can connect is, like, through groups. I have mixed feelings on it and I think, like, it's not completely the most horrible experience or it's not also the best. Like, it depends a lot. Because you're doing a course and some people find it super interesting. Some people are completely checked out. Which is understandable. Right. Like, and it happens. Like, we've been through university. University. It's kind of like the same, but because this is more of, I believe, like, an intentional program, you can expect people always to be, like, super involved. And I think that wasn't, at least on my groups, that wasn't always the case. But I think the good side of that is it helps you navigate different types of people. Like, you also will find people that are super interested in the project that you're doing and other people that you need to engage more and that you need them. And so I think it helps build that muscle. Not to say it's not frustrating at times. It can be. And I think it comes down to different professors on how they want to approach it. So there are ways of, like, if you feel like someone is not pulling their weight, you can voice that. In general, I would say a lot of homework, a lot of team homework, the ones that you can choose that people are, like, you see that people are super engaged. I think a lot of relationships come out, like, friendships come out of those groups. Right. And I think you did one where, like, the professor was like, I advise you to pick people that, like, are your friends for this group.

Yeah. I want to talk about that class as well, because when coming back to the academic experience, it can be as challenge as you want to make it.

Yeah.

So because after the core, you get to decide your classes, you can take two pathways. Like, you can go to the more challenging classes where you have to put the effort, do the homeworks, and it's like an internship as well. So this class that Valentina was talking about, which is LBO finance classes, it would be like an internship. Valentina would not see me through the quarter because I was so focused on the class that I was spending all my day working for that class. But you have other classes where the amount of work that you put in is not as big, like this.

This class is, like, kind of famous because you know that it's not going to be just like, oh, I'm just going to show up to class, and that's it. Like, there's a lot of homework that happens, and for you to, like, take the most advantage of the class itself.

Yeah, I think. And also coming back to the point, if people are competitive, so 40% of the classroom will get an A, 50% will get a B, and 10% will get lower than a B. So even if you're shooting to be, like, a straight A student, if you want to dedicate at least A little bit. You probably get an A, so you don't have to compete with your classmates.

But I also don't think that that's the spirit of people. Like, there's definitely some people that are, like, super fixated in grades, but in general, that's not the end goal, right? Like, that it's not to get, like, a straight A. I'm sure that for a lot of people, that might be. But that doesn't translate in how people, like, interact with each other. Like, people are super collaborative, for sure.

It doesn't impact how people interact with each other. For example, talking about those classes where you had to dedicate 30 hours, those classes were a little bit different because there was a competition going around the classroom which group was getting the best results.

But that came from the professor because he also wanted to challenge them on that. And it was fun for you.

Yeah, it was. But to my point, once you rank people in the classroom, people become very competitive. And it's not that people are not competitive. People are nice, they're competitive. But I think there is a balance. I think people help each other very much. But once you begin to rank people, things can get a little bit more competitive. But still, talking to the Kellogg spirit, even in that classroom, people would help and be very friendly to each other. But we would have this friendly competition.

But it was a competition between the group, not individuals, right? So, like, the groups were ranked, not the individuals were ranked. And so, like, it was a healthy, I would say healthy competition. And, like, the one that pushes you to, like, I want to do better, like, and people will actually learn a ton from it. So, yeah, I would say there's definitely this type of classes. But in general, my experience wasn't that Kellogg is a competitive school between people. Not at all.

It was a fun competition.

And kind of speaking about the culture, what was the best thing about the student culture and what was one kind of challenge or unexpected difficulty that came with that culture?

I would say, particularly for me, I appreciate the informal culture. And so students have a lot of say of say and, like, a lot of initiative that they can put forth. So, for example, all the clubs are run by students, right? Like, you. You get a budget. Like, the school administration would give a budget, and then the students that run the club will get to decide and choose what are the activities and how do they want, like, to grow that club. So I think that's a very good aspect. And just like, in general, a very good informal system with professors. Right. If you had. If you wanted to, like, Schedule half an hour to just like, hey, like, I want to dive deeper into this or I'm having a hard time understanding this. Can you like give me examples? Like all professors will be more than willing to give you that time and to have that one on one and to help you out. And also like, if you're looking for internships in like particular industries that might be a little bit more like connections related, like network related, like PE or like something like along those lines. I think professors are more than willing to help and to, to help create those connections or like steer you in how you should look at it. So I really like that more informal aspect of it. And I think that has also a challenging side that like, because it's run by students, most of the things, like it changes from year to year because that student body changes. Also the quality can, can be a little bit here and there sometimes and it can be a little bit frustrating if you're like exploring, expecting a certain like bar all the time. But once you know and once you understand like the level of involvement you want to give to, to clubs and to like extracurricular activities, I think then it is, it becomes way more manageable.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And to speak about the informal culture, there's a clear hierarchy, like professors too.

Yeah.

Because of the informality of the Kellogg environment and culture, I think you can definitely connect more with the professors, even more, like as a friend. So for example, for me, I will have professors that would invite me, I don't think maybe you had that as well, that would invite me to go to dinner at their place and they would throw in dinners for the students so they could connect more with their students. We definitely have like lunches with the professors every quarter as well where we could connect with them.

And you don't like go to this just to talk about like their particular like area of expertise. You just like learn about like if they have kids and like what do they do? What are they excited about, what type of research they're running? Like most of them or like some of them have like their own consulting services. Right. And so like who do they consult for? What are they learning from the industry? So I think it's super nice to have that other side that is not just like in the classroom. Typically professors like know how to have a good mixture of like content and a little bit of fun and playfulness. Right. Because classes are like 10 weeks and sometimes like twice a week they get to know you, they know your name and so like they kind of Know your style too, and it's mutual. And so that makes it a little bit more like they're just fun, they're.

Very open to keep the relationship going. We graduated almost like a year ago, like nine months. And I still have connections with those professors that I really like.

And how much did you guys work with the career center and what was the recruitment process like?

Our particular situation was maybe a little bit more unconventional. So what happened to us is we ended up doing the pre MBA recruiting and it ended up going well for us and so we didn't have to use them as much. Even though we had like the internship secured when we started, it was helpful to understand, okay, like, what is my profile? Like, how do I build a good resume, how do I prepare for some interviews? Like in my case, I also wanted to explore like the tech space and so I did. I was part of this group that trained people for the, for like tech interviews. And so I learned a ton from that. They're very active, they keep a pace with the timelines. There's a lot of recruiting events that happen. You can have like student buddies too, like second year students that are like that intern in the field that you're interested in or like say the company they're interested in and have like a similar background. And they'll help you like go through and craft your cv, your behavioral stories and, and help you prepare for interviews as well. And then there's the coaches. And with the coaches it's just like, like I had a coach, not because I wanted to get an internship because I already had that one, but like, just understand, like, okay, how should I think about my career? What are the things that I should think about, like networking during my internship or how do I better prepare for the internship as an international? These are my, like, things that I have in mind. And I don't know how to navigate them. It's hard to get like an immediate scheduling with them because, like, they're very popular. But if you find one coach that you resonate with, which I think, like, if you really want to, you find it. I think they're wonderful.

And can you tell for people who aren't familiar a little bit more what the pre MBA recruitment that you went through was, like, what the program was.

Of course, some companies have what they call the pre mba, which it may look different from company to company, Particularly in consulting, you kind of anticipate the interviews and I don't know what the rules look like at the moment, but sometimes it's like you do the Interviews. If it doesn't go well, then you can re recruit. Some of them are like, well, if you do it now, then you don't get to recruit in the normal cycle. So that might change. But for us, while we were still in Brazil, you can apply and we got to do the interviews before starting. You get like the confirmation of the. If you have the internship or not before. I think on for us both, like, I wasn't planning on that on that. He was. So for me, it was part of a surprise, like, good problem to have. I, like, not, not complaining, just like, it was a little bit of a surprise for me. Yeah, it helped a ton. If you really know what industry you want to go to, because the recruiting can be a big portion of your first, at least two quarters for some people or even more. And it is kind of like your job is to get a job. Right. There's a lot you can't control on those processes. Right. So, like, you have to be very prepared and can add to all that anxiety and stress that happens on the first few months. So definitely, if, you know, search for your industry, look for the company and see if they have any pre MBA programs.

Yeah. And comparing what people went through during the normal recruiting process with what we did, I think the pre MBA process is a lighter process because we didn't have to do as many coffee chats that people had to do during the recruiting process. We didn't have to go to dinner parties and work with. I'm talking about consulting your parties to network with consultants. And then you have this whole process where you have to navigate. The pre MBA is pretty much straightforward, much more straightforward. So I think I did like one network, one coffee chat with a recruiter and then another coffee chat with a consultant. And then you get reselected to the interview process.

And then you just go straight to the interviews.

And then they have this process where they would introduce you, the firm, when they would showcase what they do, and then you get the chance of doing the interviews after that. Like, yeah. Period of workshops. Yeah.

It can be challenging because for us, we were still working and you're still planning your move. I would, I would advise, like, don't do it. Just like, oh, yeah, and I'll have it. And then like, I'll decide later because it, it gets like, a little bit too much. And. And of course, once you accept an internship, you're not recruiting for other internships to then, like, decline. Right. Like, I think that's a very firm policy that Kellogg has that you're not like getting other people's like, opportunities. Yeah, but, but I definitely encouraged if, if your industry has it and if you can make the time for it.

Yeah, opens up a lot of time for social events.

We were very lucky that we didn't have to go through recruiting in the first quarter.

And does. I think one of the things that people love about Kellogg is the quest program and does it live up to the hype?

We were the first cohort after the pandemic to fully experience the Kellogg experience in the global hub. Because before us, the previous class, they had only one year.

I don't know if the hub, but like during, during the pandemic, the quest was a little bit like, of course, because of the limitations of traveling internationally or even domestically. So we were the first class that they opened up for international travel. Again, the quest is planned by students, by second year students. Right. So it's a group of four or five students that would plan each trip. What we had in our year was there was so much demand for the trip and not a lot of offers that a lot of people you tried to like sign up, but you, you couldn't. There's like a big wait list. So what happened in our case is we didn't get it. We also like were financially a little bit more constrained on that. We were two and like we were like in the middle of moving. And so what ended up happening for us is me and other two girls, like we connected another Brazilian and an American and we decided to do like what they call now an alt quest, so an alternative quest. We ended up going to Norway. So we planned it. It was a bigger group than normal, but truly that was a very fun experience. Our group could not be more fun. We like, of course if you go to Norway, it's not a nightlife like oriented trip. It's like a fully not backpacking, but like you need to like, like nature adventure trip. Adventure trip. And I think we had everything. We had people that like loved it. We had people that said like, oh, this activity, I don't want to do it. And so I think we, that being an alt quest, it gave us a little bit more flexibility to give people optionality and to not have like an agency around it. And so yeah, we had a great time. Like we still keep in touch. We just went to a wedding of one of the people that we met on that trip that became one of my closest friends there. And so I think it's a great way to get to know people traveling and just like being abroad and the good thing is, and we try to respect that, is for the first three days, you. You shouldn't talk about your background or where you worked or where you're from. Some couples even do secret couples. Like, in the middle of the trip, you'll have, like, a reveal. So it's very fun experience. Yeah, it's a fun experience. And then you do that trip. You do, like, kind of the initial event, then you go to the trip, and then you come back and you start having classes. And so it's fun because a lot of the first three months revolves around that quest group. Right. And then it branches out naturally. Right. Because also people, like, find their interest. But it is a group that we kept in touch consistently during those two years, and there's a lot of people that were still in touch and hybrid memories. It was honestly a ton of work again, but I don't regret it. And great relationships came out of it.

Our Cal trip, I think, was amazing.

Yeah.

And a huge part because of what you and the other two girls put together.

It was a good. Yeah, just good.

So, yeah, the group was very fun as well.

And I think, like, we can speak from our friends that did, like, the normal official quest. They also loved it. Most of them are still, like, in touch with their groups. And so I think if you can, it's a really good way to, like, have this first, like, community and also, like, get to know people outside of the recruiting student environment. Right.

Going back to the academics, did you guys choose to pursue a pathway or a major? And how did that shape your MBA experience?

As I was saying before, you can't make academic as academics as challenging as you want. And Cal doesn't obligate you to choose a major or do a major. You can graduate without a major. You can graduate with six or five makers. It all depends on how you. You want to do your stuff. So I. I think I was more prone towards academics than Valentina was. So I would occupy most of my days with classes rather than club activities and other stuff. Kellogg usually allows you to do either three to five credits per quarter minimum.

Three credits per quarter and maximum five.

Well, you can ask professors to audit their classes, so you can actually do more if you want.

You can go into, like, as much academic activities as you want. I think, like, you had a very particular inclination on finance and analytical classes, and so he would try to, like, leverage that as much as he could. My experience was different on, like, I didn't anchor as much on academics, but more on, like, clubs. And so I Think we had very different experiences on that. So you can truly, like, you make your own path, but you're not mandated to do any type of majors or pathways. I think they're nice if you're trying to like, get, get more exposure to a particular, particular topic.

And this is a structure you can follow if you are interested in that topic. But I would not like, recommend people to shoot for those majors. Just try to see a topic if that you're interested in that you think can help in your academic life. Talk to professors to get their understanding of what are the classes you can do that will help you. What are the classes that you can skip and not do.

Right.

And then the majors will be a consequence. Yeah, I think that's the best, best way to approach it.

I think so. And also Kellogg has academic advisors. So whenever a bid is coming up, because you bid every, every quarter and you have like a set, like you have coins, right? And you have to allocate them. And then sometimes they have a validity. Like you have them for a year and then you, you cannot like just accumulate points to your second year. So that's like a bit of a. How you have to navigate it. So if you, you can book appointment with academic advisors and are like, okay, this is like my one class that I really, really want to get. And I know it's a very popular class. And so this class, like, what is my, what's my strategy to try to get this one? And what is my plan B if I don't get this one on round two? Because there's like multiple rounds of bidding at least three. And then it's like another section is a whole thing. And so you can plan around it to maximize the chances of you getting like one or two classes that you're very excited about. And then you have plans B here and there. I would say some people try to optimize for schedule, right? I was one of those people. Like, I understood like, what classes, like what, what timing the classes for me, just I couldn't be concentrated enough. And so I was like, okay, let. For me, morning classes were better during the winter classes after like starting 10:30 and not 8:30. So you, you try to optimize those type of stuff. I did. And so sometimes you have to do compromises on that, right? Like, oh, I like this class, but it's like a little bit like outside of what I would feel comfortable. Some people don't like night classes, for example. And so I think you can optimize for that or you can optimize for like, I absolutely want this professor on this class. And I'm willing to like, do a class in the Chicago campus at like 8pm Fine, you can do that. And so for me, the academic advisors really helped because we would sit down and plan around like, okay, round one of bidding. Let's just do a strategy here. Then you come back and you're like, okay, this worked, this didn't. Now I have this amount of points, what I'm going to try to do, and then they can help you understand, like, okay, workload wise, does this make sense? Is it reasonable? So you can try to really tailor it to, to what's more important to you.

It's kind of funny because even though I was doing a lot of classes doing Kellogg, I never spent most of my points.

Yeah, because you would do it.

I would do the classes that no one wants to do.

The ones that are super difficult and hard people don't really beat a 10 on it.

Like.

No, he wanted to do them.

So that was not a problem for me. So I would not connect a lot with the academic advisors on that.

Yeah, you can see we had very different.

We have very different academic experiences. Never did a class together. We have very different profiles of topics that interest us.

Yeah, good, healthy.

That speaks to catalog as well. The offering is very broad, so you can do whatever you want and have good professors across all the departments. And another thing I would say on academics is that the professor is very important. The professor can make or break a class. And trying to optimize for the good professors can really make experience more. Yeah, we saw that very clear on the core. And I was very lucky to have the good professors, the stellar professors at Gallup, while Valentina had some new professors that were learning how to.

Yeah, it's a hit or miss, I would say, because you don't get to choose the professor nor do you get to choose your schedule. And like, it's the first quarter and like, so there's a lot of things that I knew I wouldn't say. I had like, across the board professors that I didn't like. But like, there's definitely like, they, I think they are learning their, their, their teaching style. Right. And, and you are like learning to be. So sometimes that can be a little bit hard. But in general, after that first quarter, I had great professors. Yeah, can't complain.

And what is it actually like living in Evanston? Is there enough to do? Do you go into Chicago very often? I think people always are like, Evanston. You're just, you know, 10 minutes away from Chicago.

I think this is going to be a little bit of a hot take on us because we love Evanston. Right? But Evanston has like 2 population. There's either like the students or the people are already retired and like live there. Right. And so I think in terms of like how practical it is, I find it super practical now.

We had everything that we needed in Iceland.

Yeah. I would say we are not people that are heavy on like we need different restaurants in like that's part of like our weekly experience. So I would say for us it was great. Yeah, we would do a lot of dinners at people's places or at home. And for us that was good. But I, I want to recognize that there are people that really value like a good restaurant or like a particular type of like diversity in, in culinary or like diversity in just like shops or things like that. And then for that you definitely need to go to Chicago. We wouldn't go as much to Chicago.

And it's not as close to Atmosdon as people imagine.

I mean we didn't have a car. Let's just say that we didn't have a car. So like not having a car, you depend on public transportation. We, we lived in front of the train station and it would be like if you take, took the train like a 20, 25 minute thing or like a 40. But it would be an event to go to Chicago. Say like we are going to this thing and I normally was with a group, right. And we would go like with our group of friends. Every time we went to a restaurant in Chicago it's because someone else invited us and did the reservation. That's the truth.

Right.

Even though like I love Chicago.

We love Chicago is amazing.

But on the day to day, not as easy to go. It's not just like, oh yeah, I'll pop in and out. Kellogg does have some classes that are in the Chicago campus. Not a lot, but some of them that you can do. So some people would choose to go and there's like an, there's a bus that connects the two campus during the week and it's free. They make it easy if you want to go. But I would say for us our, Our life was 99 in Evanston and surroundings. I picked up running while in the NBA and like we would run around Evanston and like Winetka and like all of the, all of the neighborhoods around and it's just beautiful. I don't know, I didn't feel the need to.

I don't feel the need to go to Chicago as well. If we needed to go shopping for something.

Yeah.

It's like.

But online shopping is.

We would not go like once per month. We will go like once every two.

Yeah, once every two, three months, something like that. Because like the weekends are like packed with things to do. Right. Like especially during the, not the winter months. And so you have things around and also like there are people that have cars and then you carpool or. Very rarely, but we would rent a car if we needed to.

It's like for me, it wasn't as close that I imagined before going to Evanston, but people will do the commute.

Yeah.

During Friday, so go to nightclub in Chicago. You come back to Evanston.

Yeah.

Like if you want to do it.

You can, you can, you definitely can.

Once you're in Evanston, at least in our experience, you tend to stay in Aristotle.

Yeah. In general. Yeah. Awesome.

So now we're going to get into the part of the podcast where we do our fast pass insights, rapid fire questions just to get what's top of your mind. So what's one word that perfectly captures Kellogg's culture?

Friendliness.

And what's a professor? That or a class that you took that completely changed the way you think?

Professor Jose Maria Liberti. And class that was global entrepreneurship Finance.

Yeah. Mine would be. I'm torn between two, but I would say Professor Brook Vukovich in moral complexity. Very out of the box type of class for an mba, I think. And learned a ton. And picked up reading fiction again because of the class.

And what's the biggest myth about Kellogg that turned out to be false?

That's not academic prone.

True. Or that it's a marketing school.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would say that one.

And what's one thing you never thought you'd miss about Kellogg but now you.

Do the walks to the. I walk to the hub.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good time to like you said, catch up with classmates, maybe listen to a podcast.

It's just like so hard to include that on your day to day when you're working again.

And the walk is beautiful.

Yeah, beautiful.

You walk through the Northwestern campus.

Yeah.

You see the seasons. You get a time to connect or a time to just be by yourself.

It's just time to get steps in. I don't know, just like be around. Like we walked almost all the winter there. Like it was a good two. We had a good two winters in general. And so I miss having that little moments during the day to day.

Yeah. Even when I come back to Kellogg in October for like a recruiting event. I just took the walk to the Hub because I wanted to remember it.

And what is your golden buzzer? Insight about Kellogg truly defines the experience, but might not be obvious to applicants.

Know what you want to do. I think if you know what you want to do, catalog will give you the opportunities for you to excel at that. But if you're not very focused or trying to do everything at once, you'll probably miss on some good things.

Yeah, I would add on to that and be like. And say be very intentional. Be intentional on the things you. You are involving yourself into. Like just if you're committing to a club, then commit to a club. If you're doing fewer classes because you want more extra academic stuff, then just commit to it and don't try to do everything all at once.

That's good advice.

Yeah.

And our final round. What is one stereotype that's true about.

Kellogg that is very student led? I don't know if that's a stereotype that it has, but it is very student led.

People are very friendly as well. That's a stereotype about Caleb that is true. Friendly is the Kellogg nice, as they would say.

Yeah.

Good Midwest culture world.

Awesome.

Well, thank you guys so much for your insights. It has been such a pleasure having you both here today. I think everyone listening has learned a ton from you.

Thank you very much. Hope it helps. Yeah. Awesome.

Well, for everyone listening, thanks for listening. And if you're looking to apply to Kellogg or any other top business school, visit our website@EllenLawleys.com to learn more about working with us. And if you haven't, check out our other episode with Valentina and Arthur where they talk about navigating the MBA experience as a couple. So looking forward to talking to you guys about that.