MBA as a Couple: Challenges, Growth & Real Lessons from Valentina Tasende & Arthur Libanio

Understand what is irritating you before putting that on. Like, he is irritating me or she is irritating me. Right. It's like, okay, I feel irritated. Like, what's making me feel irritated? And then talk about the source of your irritation other than just like, blaming the other one. Right. We always knew that this was our project. We wanted this. So how do we make it better for each other?

If you don't keep talking about what's bothering you one time, it will explode. I think that's one thing we learned. We just have to keep an open channel of communication so that we will not get to the point where everything is stressing us.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today we're joined again by Valentina and Arthur, who didn't just experience Kellogg as individuals, they experienced it together as a couple. So in this episode, we're going to be talking about how they manage academics, networking, career choices, and their relationship, all while juggling the chaos of business school. So if you're applying to business school with your partner or just curious about how to balance all of these things in business school, this episode is for you. So thank you guys again for joining me. Do you want to maybe tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

Thank you for having us. It's good to be here again. So I'm Arthur. I'm originally from Brazil. Before my mba, I used to work in consulting and in finance. And after graduating from Kellogg, I rejoined a consulting firm here in the US.

I'm Valentina, originally from Uruguay. Been living in Brazil for the past 10 years. I have a startup background and I transitioned into consulting after the mba. Excited to be here talking to you again, Elaine.

Yes.

And if you guys haven't already, they did a whole episode with us talking about Kellogg. What Kellogg is like, what you can expect. So if you haven't listened to that one, check it out. But for today, I'd love to get into your story. Was it always the plan to go to the same school or did you guys ever consider going long distance?

Of course, long distance was on the table. Not our favorite option at all, Especially if we landed in, like, opposite sides of the country, because that was a real possibility. So we pretty much tried to target at least schools in the same region, but we did have a lot of talks beforehand of, like, what happened if one got into one school and the other one didn't? Like, would we both do the mba? We definitely saw people having long distance relationship. I would say it's hard, it's doable, but it's not Easy.

Yeah. Well, I think from the start, from the process of selecting the schools, we were trying to narrow, the schools are similar so that we're maximizes our chances of being together, if not in the same school, in the same cities. So take, for example, Chicago. I think I had a more profile that was linked to Booth, so I also applied to Booth and kind of Evelyn applied only to Kellogg's. If she were to be accepted in Kellogg and I was to be accepted in both, that would be great as well. Yeah, so that was our plan. But we were, as Valentina said, open to the possibility that this would not become the reality. And then we have to deal with that once we get there. Our initial plan.

Yeah.

Was to be on the same school or at least in the same city.

And speaking of kind of those difficult moments at Kellogg after you guys started, was there kind of an early moment where you said, okay, this is going to be a little bit harder than we expected?

Absolutely. I would say our first three months were very challenging. I. I think, like, again, everything is new. You're in a new country, you're back to being a student. You are navigating a little bit of the recruiting, not so much for us, but also your day to day in your routine changes. Right. And so, for example, for us, tiny stuff, but, like, you have a certain apartment or house you live in, and then you go to, like, a smaller place where, like, you have to do all your chores that you had helped before, things like that. And I think, like, trying to build a routine where we both felt comfortable and that we both, like, were, one, helping each other out and supporting each other, but two, making sure that, like, our house was functioning.

We were trying to understand our new life both in the individual level and the relationship level, because we were in the new situation that we had to adjust how we do the chores at home. How do we fit into this new routine? How do we fit into this new student routine as well?

So we as a couple are meeting people. We as individuals are meeting people. And of course, we have different interests. You liked volleyball. I didn't. I didn't go to the volleyball stuff. And how do we protect time for us? Yes. Where do we find time for us? I think probably that was the most challenging side because if you let it, if you just go with the flow, you know, your day gets filled with a ton of activities, and then you just get home exhausted and you just don't have the energy. And even though, like, it's all on the same environment, you. You're not connecting between each other. And so I think I can remember one talk where we were like, okay, what. What do we need to change? Like, what are we committing to change? We're both introverts, and so we need our time, but we also wanted our time for ourselves and for each other and also be present in. In this experience. Experiences. So we definitely had that chat around, like the three month mark. And it did help.

Yeah, it did.

It did help a ton. And like, okay, we're gonna be super intentional. And for me, a ton of it was, what do we say no to? What are we comfortable saying no to?

How we protect our time.

Yes. Yes. And what energizes us, for example, one of the things was we just can't have dinners every single night. Like, we need a night or at least two nights that are like, for us at home, just, like, chill. He would say yes to some dinners, I would say yes to other dinners. And then our week would be like, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, like every single day we had something and like, we ended up being like, this is not sustainable at all for us. And so we said, like, okay, how many nights do we feel comfortable hosting? Okay, we'll host one night or like two nights. One during the week and one during the weekend. How many nights do we feel comfortable accepting invitations to other people's places or, like, events? Okay, max, two. Okay, that's already three nights. And then we also had, like, homework and stuff that we wanted to see.

The activities of us as a couple. Yeah. And then we had our individual calendars as well. To see what I have to do.

Yeah. So like, we wouldn't accept things. We were just like, oh, let's see the calendar. And that helped us organize stuff if we had big events or like, if we. I don't know, I had some couple of, like, family stuff happen that, like, had to, like, break our plans. And so I think I really helped for us to have our protected space and also the space that we wanted to, like, open up and. And that helped tremendously. But yeah, definitely hard times, Definitely hard conversations. But I would say it strengthened our relationship. Definitely.

Yeah.

Having a common calendar, even for couples.

Who are not in the mba. Yes.

Peddled what for us.

Yes, exactly.

And did you guys ever struggle with feeling too attached or too disconnected from.

Each other at the beginning? The disconnected felt bigger, right?

Yeah. Because you had so much stuff to do and kind of takes so much of your time in the first few months and you're trying to take away off the land and see where you fit that can take more time out of the relationship.

So I think, yeah, I think the disconnect part was definitely on those first months. And then I think the second year was a breeze. I think the second year was the one that we were like, so in tune, so connected. Like, we were already super into the our, like day to day activities and things that we wanted to do. We were already like, way more comfortable with the people. And so I think the second part was like way better the second year. And then I think we came out of it way more, like stronger and more connected.

Yeah, even in the second year, we get to even connect more because we were doing more trips together, we were spending more time together doing stuff outside Kellogg because we had more time. We knew how to approach the Kellogg experience. So the time that we had to expand on learning how to be part of the Kellogg community and learning this new routine that the MBA requires of you, we already knew that on the second year. So the second year we could seize the time to connect more and have more.

And did you guys take any classes together?

No. Never.

Not one.

Not interested. The same things.

So the way the way Kellogg works is you're placed into sections, right? I think there are like seven sections or something like that. Each section has like about 60 to 70 people. It's not a section that you will only do classes with them, but definitely the core you do together. And then you branch out depending on like what people choose to do in terms of classes. But again, like, we have very different profiles. He's way more analytical, more financial oriented. I wanted to explore other stuff, and so I would say it was very complimentary. And I also don't think we wanted to do classes together, to be honest.

I think there's a consequence of what interests us. But I think us not doing classes together made us experience more of the Kellogg.

Yeah. Because we would share with each other.

We'll talk about the classes and we will share the things that we thought was interesting. Valentina came to watch one of my classes. Yeah.

For example, this class that he had that demanded a lot. It was like a financial class. I would be very interested because of what I hear and because how many, how much time I saw him put it into. And he was super excited about it. And so I was like, I'm curious to see what a class looks like and I'm sure I'm going to learn from it. And so I think I saw like two classes. Like, I just sat there. I was like, just hearing of it, and it was great. And Then at home, we would talk a lot about the classes, we would problem solve a lot. And like, if we had any homework or, or things to do that we were like, can you give me a second opinion on this? Like, am I thinking it right? Am I like forgetting something? Would you do it differently? So I think in that case we shared a ton, but we didn't do classes together, which honestly, it was never an issue for us.

No, yeah, I'm remembering. I was like, it's not that we never did the same class.

We did the same class. Not on the same class.

Exactly. Not the same classroom.

Classroom, yeah.

So even when we were doing that class about shareholders, we will come home and talk about that class, but we were living sections and each section has its own opinions and insights and takeaways that we would share at home and that would make the experience more interesting.

Yes, yes, that's a very good class. Managing Firms for Shareholder Value in Society. It's a very small, like, number of people. And so you debate based on, on class. It's a purely debate class. And I, I thought it was super interesting because of course the debates are different depending on the people on the room. Right. And so we would read the same case. His class would have an outcome or like a particular angle of discussion. Mine would be completely different. And sometimes we had different opinions on it and we would like, debate it at home. And so I just felt like it was never an issue and if anything, it made our experience a little bit broader and richer.

And what was the biggest challenge of going to an MBA together?

I think, like, when you, especially as internationals are kind of stripped away of like your core environment and you just have to immerse yourselves in a new one. It's, you're reevaluating yourself. You, you, you're like reinventing yourself again in some way as individuals and then how you as a couple interact with that new environment. And so I think that was at the beginning, very challenging. And then again, as I said, I had a couple of like, family stuff happen that we of course were not planning to. And so that was something that we had to navigate during the mba that while challenging, I would say also again, made us way closer and solidified a lot of stuff.

Both parts of the relationship is doing are doing the MBA together. You require creative financial planning because you, you don't have like an income during that two years. So you have to better prepare yourself. You have to make sure that you know your limits, you know the boundaries of what you can do and what you Cannot do, especially in the first year, but as you come to the second year that, you know, manage.

Yeah. Each couple is different. For us, it was a lot of, like, financial conversations, Very open conversations, and a lot of planning and. Yeah. Understanding. Like, okay, our reality is this one. It's different than when we have. When we lived in Brazil. And so how do we adjust to that? I think that turned out to be great because now that's how we approach also our finances, and we see it as a one thing. And maybe if it wasn't for the mba, we would take longer to get to that. That point, or I don't know if we would even get to it. I don't know if it forces you, because we had couples. Every couple will work in a different way. Right.

But you just have to be better organized.

Yeah. For us, it helped us get more organized.

You go from two people having an income stream to no one having an income stream for two years. So you have to really understand what is your budget, how you're gonna approach it.

Yeah, yeah.

And what's the best way that the MBA strengthened your relationship so many ways?

I think we. We did not meet in university, and so, like, we met well, we were, like, adulting. Let's say. Arthur is super, super, super interested in learning. He's just, like. He loves it. I am less academic, I would say. And so I think seeing your partner, like, thrive and being so happy with that just, like, gives you another sense of, like, oh, like, that's where his energy comes from. And also consolidating friendships. For us, it was great, and just supporting each other. I think a good thing is if you're struggling, it's easy to understand why you're struggling. Or, like, say someone is, like, super, super tired like you. You're not like, the person that is just like, oh, I did nothing during the day, or, like, my day looks completely different than yours, and I cannot really relate. Like, I think we could really relate to what was happening and. And give ourselves the space also and talk about it. So I think we came out of it being way more of, like, a team, I would say, for sure.

I think when you're in the same situation for two years, as Valentina was saying, you get to really know the person you're with. You get to see what she likes. You get to see how she's approaching her day to day, and we had to connect more because you're doing stuff that similar. It's challenging the moments, but it forces conversations because you're living, like, almost 24 hours per day together. So it forces you to have open conversations to talk about what interests you, what's challenging you at the moment, what are the problems, and that contributes to a stronger relationship as well.

Yeah.

And what was the toughest conversation that you guys had as a couple during your MBA or one of them?

We have many. I think so. So I think it depends on the profile. I particularly don't dislike hard conversations. I kind of seek them. And Arthur was more on the side of, like, do we have to? But do we really have to?

I learned a lot from Valentina during those two.

At the beginning, we tried different approaches of like, okay, let's have like, a one, one a week. Like, let's sit down, open conversation. And then we understood, like, okay, that structure didn't really work for us. But then we moved into, if we have a topic, we establish a little bit of rules of, like, okay, let's just not hold on to something that happened, like, more than a month ago, and then just, like, spill it out to the person. Like, so I think that helped, and those conversations became more and more mature over time. Of, like, okay, I think what's bothering me is not everything it's bothering me is, like, this particular thing. And then, okay, how can we make better? What do you need from me? And what are you committing also to do? And I think, honestly, that made our relationship so much better.

Yeah, the capacity to have that. The capacity to have more, like, open conversations that Valentina would push on him would bring more to the table. I think it really improved our relationship.

But a big, like, to your point, to your. Your question, ikea. I think the one that I remember most is us being super stressed, extremely tired at the end of the day over the first three, four months. So we. We sat down and I was like, okay, this is clearly not working, because we were, like, irritated with each other. We were like, this is not what. Why we came here. This is not how we should live our two years here. It's, you're not happy, I'm not happy. Or like, this. This particular things are, like. It was tiny little things that start to accumulate. I'm sure all couples would relate. And so we sat down and we were like, okay, what's annoying you? Just shoot everything. Like, what's annoying you? Okay, what's annoying me? Okay, so how can we make compromises? And I think it came to the point of, like, us understanding it's not your problem, it's our problem. Right. And so, like, it's not. You are right. And I'm wrong. It's like, okay, I expect you to do the dishes or, like, to put things on the dishwasher and this way. And like, the other part is like, okay, but like, why do I have to do it this way? And I. Okay, so. So, like those type of stuff.

All things will accumulate.

Yeah. And so it was. At the end of the day, it was like, okay, what. What is like a compromise? Okay. The kitchen needs to go to bed clean. Okay, cool, cool. That's our goal. So we don't compromise on, like, if it's 3pm and like, dishes are in the sink, like, fine, because it's not that time. Right. And so, like, that's just a very silly example, but of things that we would start talking about. And then it was more like, oh, if you do this, then I feel this way. Or like, even small things like, oh, like if I have this event, we would let each other know, like, oh, I would really want you to join me on this one. Or like, don't, like, don't. Don't bother. Like, it's totally fine. I can do this and I can go and it's fine. And so communicating just like, what is. What was our expectation? And like, okay, we would.

We become more transparent.

Yeah.

After those.

Yeah. It was easier also to like, anticipate.

We. What is fine if you don't want to come? What, we don't want the other one to come.

Yeah.

And we will not take any nos as a negative because we will understand what the other was going through.

Yeah.

And that I think being at the same routine and understand what the other is going through and the challenge that she might be going through in specific quarters or I might be going through in other quarters. We would support each other and adjust our routine to support that stuff.

Yeah.

So especially one quarter, I was having more cuz. More on one class. And Valentina supports me more on that.

Yeah. We would talk about it. Like, for example, I'm planning this quarter to be busy on this.

This.

I'm going to do this class. I know it's a super demanding class. So I was like, okay, so then let's cut down on like, the social events that we have during the week. Fine. That's fine. Because that's what he needed. Or like, okay, then you won't be able to go to all of, like, the, the team dinners would communicate that to our friend group. And it was fine. And so I think that helped a ton. Or like, hey, what do you need during the day to recharge like, for Arthur, it was like, I just need to sit down and, like, watch half an hour of tv. Okay.

And that was an outcome of one of the challenge conversations that we had.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, I just need after a day to be here.

Just not say anything. Just like, couch potato.

Yeah. Not say anything. I will not talk to you. I just need to stay here.

Yeah. So that type of thing helped. And we continue to have those conversations now they're, like, less often because we're just, like, way more in tune with what we need. But at the beginning. Yeah. For sure, we had it more frequent.

Yeah. And I think that kind of overwhelm brings out the worst in us. Right. And the beginning of an MBA is overwhelming, and it can really quickly turn into just a lot of bickering and hiding.

Yeah. But to give advice to a couple that is starting would be like, understand what is irritating you before putting that on. Like, he is irritating me or she is irritating me. Right. It's like, okay, I feel irritated. Like, what's making me feel irritated? And then talk about the source of your irritation other than just, like, blaming the other one. Right. Like, because you're in it together. We always knew that this was our project. It wasn't something that each other imposed on on one another. And so we were like, okay, we wanted this. So how do we make it better for each other?

And I think when you compare the NBA with your professional life, the NBA takes your whole week. You don't have a weekend because during the weekend, you're thinking about the next week. You're doing homework so you don't get to relax and decompress. So those weeks begin to pile up. If you don't keep talking about what's bothering you one time, we will explode. Yeah. I think that's one thing we learn. We just have to keep an open channel of communication so that we will not get to the point where everything is distressing us.

Yeah.

I think that's even good advice for anyone who's listening, who's not part of a couple or not worried about that. As part of a couple, it's really easy to burn out. And, like, just letting all of that accumulate, accumulate, accumulate. And that's constant. Like, oh, yeah, let's go have dinner.

Let's do this.

Let's do that. That can really just burn you at both ends really quickly.

Right.

And did being a couple affect your job recruitment at all? Did you guys have to make any other. Any compromises for each other post mba?

I would say affected us but it did play a role into how. Into the. The city that we ended up in. Right.

Like, affected the beginning how we would approach the city that we selected to go after them.

Yeah. Because we, of course, like, as we did with the NBA, we wanted to land on the same city because after the mba, we really didn't want to do any long distance.

Even more important at that point, we.

Were like, okay, how do we again, maximize the chances? Because nothing is guaranteed, but how do we maximize the chances of landing on the same city? We did a couple of things, like consulting, particularly. You kind of get to choose priority cities. So we knew what we didn't want, like, what type of cities we were not willing to do. Like, big cities. We were not, like, superb to. So honestly, of course, there's a big component of luck that we had there. We ended up in Seattle, which we love, but it wasn't something that we had our eyes set on before the NBA. Right. We were very flexible into the city that gets us the biggest, like, chance to getting together. We're going.

Valentina, when she was trying to see herself after the NBA, you saw yourself working in tech first.

Tech was a big option for me.

So tech has lower flexibility of locations. So we knew that could be either being, like, west coast or Texas for some companies. So we kind of narrowed down to the west Coast. And because I wanted consulting, I had more flexibility towards the city. So we knew that Valentina would either go like, Seattle, San Francisco or Los Angeles.

And Seattle is a big tech hub. And so we were like, okay, here are the chances. And of course, we didn't know, like, what the pre MBA will give us.

Yeah.

So we just, like, ended up being like, okay, I think Seattle.

And even before that, I tried to put my pre MBA recruiting process to different cities in the west coast so.

He could try it out.

So I could try try it out. And depending. Depending on what she landed with, I could have an offer for the city that she went to. But then you. You did the consulting process as well, and you did it for Seattle because you prefer Seattle than the California.

The first step was like, let's try to land the internship on the same city. Then full time will be another conversation, and then we'll plan for that. We never expected, like, where we do the internship. That would definitely have to be where we do full time. Right. So that's how we approach it at first look, it ended up working for us. It could have not. We also know of other couples that it was, like, close to not being on the same city. And then, like, you have to do compromises here and there. And ultimately our goal was to be on the same place, and we would have made compromises for that. So that's kind of like how we approached it.

And let's get into the FastPass insights, the part of the podcast where we shoot you some quick questions to see what's at the top of your mind. So what was the biggest learning curve of doing an MBA as a couple?

I think respecting individuality while building a stronger relationship.

Yeah. And I would add, to have that, you have to develop the skill of having open conversations on more frequent basis.

And what was the moment where you realized that having your partner there with you was a huge advantage?

I would say two big moments. One, like, at the beginning when we realized that we were tired from the same thing and we were there for the same reason, and we were a team. And then I think when we had some hardships of how comfortable I felt that Arthur was doing with me, and it was a huge support system. And so I think those were the two big moments.

In the beginning, you can be very alone, even though you're trying to meet a lot of new people. It's not your home. It's not what you feel comfortable with. And I think having a couple situation, it really creates a menker where you feel more comfortable. You have a home.

Yeah. You come home and it's home, and it's not something that it's isolating.

And what was the funniest or most unexpected moment you guys experienced together?

Oh, I think the travel.

Travel came to my mind as well. The. The bike. The bike ride with the kayak, the quest.

We had this, like, not super planned, we thought was a scenic bike route picture, like, very easy, flat. It was a mountain bike thing that.

Like, it was a downhill experience.

Downhill thing. And, like, he loves mountain biking. I do not. And I've never experienced something like that in, like, I remember him waiting for me down to the hill, and this was like a zigzag down with, like, rocks and things. And I was terrified. Like, absolutely terrified. And he was just like, waiting, being like, you're not going to die. And I was like, but I feel like I will die. And everyone on that trip experienced that portion of, like, the bike riding in a completely different way for us as a couple. It just comforted me that, like, he really knew what he was doing. And then he was waiting for me at the end, and I was just like, I'm never doing this.

We can have different hobbies it was.

A breeze for him. He took the bike, he knew the brakes, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like. And I had planned it. I mean, like, it was part of, like, our programming. And I was like, I remember reading that. This was so intense.

It was a. So the day was, like, brutal. Throughout the day, we had many couple therapies. I really treasured the next few days.

And what's one thing you think couples absolutely need to talk about before they start an MBA together?

Finance guys 100 finance. You need to be comfortable with what you're getting yourself into, whether you have a loan that you're taking or whether you have, like, your own savings that you're using. Whatever. Talk about finance. Talk about what are your expectations and.

What things you want to have in your new life, because your life's going to change. It's not going to resemble what you have.

Yeah. And also, I think for us, a big part is, like, what's the end goal? Right. Like, we're doing the mba. Yes, we of course want the experience, but our end goal was, like, what type of job do we want to have? And what is this contributing to our careers? Right. And so we had that. And so that helps you support each other and understand the concessions that you want to make and the ultimate goal. So, yeah, those two are big ones.

Yeah. I'll definitely say that one's more important because it caps you oriented towards your goal.

Yeah.

And we knew when. And I think you helped us as well during the process.

Highly recommend Ellen. Ellen was a huge part of our Kellogg experience in prior to. But, yeah, her support was amazing.

We decided to go between ourselves, but you helped us connect to the schools. That made sense for us and how.

To approach the process, understand what success looks like for you two after the mba. Right. What's the. Your couple's definition of success? And it looks different for everyone. Right. Like, some people are like, I definitely want to live in this region. And, like, that's all it matters to me. Fine. Definitely want to get this job at this particular company or, like, this area or industry. Fine. But have an idea, because it's easy to be like, oh, I also want this, and I also want this. So, like, understand as a couple, like, at the end of the two years, how do we assess if this was successful for us other than just, like, the job we landed? Right. And so I think that was a big one.

That's great advice, I would say, even for couples who are starting their application process, when you're talking about schools, when you're talking about it before you apply. That's a good conversation to have because that's going to guide your school selection. That's going to guide, you know, how important all of these different factors are.

Exactly.

It definitely starts when you're planning to apply because that will define where you go, what you want to do.

Even for couples that are not doing it together but, like, are supporting each other and are willing to move for the other. Like, okay, what, what success looks like for two of them. Right. Like, so.

Because that's a totally different situation if you have just one part of the relationship going to the MBA and the other stay at home, that can create some complications as well.

Yeah. Yeah.

Especially in a new country. Yeah, that's definitely a good thing to talk about. And what's your best golden buzzer insight for couples considering an mba? Your best kind of divide and conquer strategy that you guys can recommend.

Try to keep your individuality even though you're doing the MBA together.

Yeah. I see it as a privilege that we had the chance to do it together. Like 100% a privilege. Like, it's something that we understand where we're coming from and what it means and what it took us to take us from those two years. And I feel like, understand it as a privilege, but don't do it like, as a secular unit. You're not like one person. Right. You are two different people and you're experiencing that. So, like, do your individual thing and then nourish yourself as a couple too.

And grow with the other individual as well. Because Valentina was doing her stuff, I was doing my stuff, But I feel that I did part of her MBA and she did part of my mba. But we only could have done that if we were pursuing the things that we wanted to do as well.

Yeah. So, like, yeah. Learn from the other experience as well. It's not one unique experience for both of you.

Well, thank you guys so much. It's been great catching up with you and hearing all about your experience. I think this has been great advice. I really, really appreciate it.

No worries. Hope it help. I just want to say huge shout out to Ellen. Your. Your work was exceptional. Super, super, super, like organized and very high quality direction. So would highly recommend if anyone's thinking of working with. With her and her team.

Yes.

Thank you so much. Well, it was a pleasure to work with you guys. Always exciting to see you doing so well later on and all of those MBA goals becoming a reality, even if it's a little different than the essays.

Yeah.

But thank you guys so much. And for any of you listening, if you're planning to apply to an MBA, visit our site@EllenLawleyce.com to learn more about working with us. And make sure you listen to our other episode. So thank you guys so much.

Thank you, Ellen.