What Makes Chicago Booth the Right MBA for Non-Traditional Candidates

It's not about describing what's amazing about Booth and telling. Well, these are the reasons why I think Booth is amazing. It's selling. These are the amazing things Booth can offer. And that's how this will have a good impact in my life. And on top of that, these are the amazing things about myself that I can give to the school that will make that experience better for everyone around me. I love that it's a two way street, right? Like what am I taking from the school and what am I giving to that class?

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Nina, a former client and current graduate of Chicago, Booth. Booth is known for its academic rigor, flexibility, and of course, its world class faculty. But what is it really like to live the experience did. Today we're diving into Nina's MBA experience at Booth, from applying to navigating self doubt, to what surprised her most once she actually arrived on campus. So if you're thinking about applying to Booth or wondering if it might be the right place for you, this episode is for you. Let's get started. So, Nina, thank you so much for joining. It's such a pleasure to have you.

Of course, it's an honor to be here. Thank you so much. I feel honored.

Of course. Couldn't think of anyone better to talk about Booth. But for those who might not know you, could you maybe tell them a little bit about yourself?

Yes, of course. I'm Nina. I am originally from Rio, Brazil. And professionally I've always worked in luxury retail, having been part of a marketing team of a shopping mall commercial team of an airport. I've been brand manager for fragrances, luxury fragrances, and currently I work for the wholesale team of a big luxury fashion brand here in New York.

Awesome. And let's start at the beginning. What drew you to an MBA in the first place? Especially because you're not from the typical finance consulting background. And why did you decide to apply to Booth?

So, as you were saying, I don't come from a very traditional background in terms of what normally people applying to MBAs come from. I would say I have an undergrad in marketing, advertising, and I've always worked in luxury retail. And I actually first came in touch with Booth through my husband, who has a very traditional background. He has always been in finance. He worked for an asset management before Booth and decided to apply to work in IB after his graduation. And I initially got in touch with the whole MBA idea through his path. And he got accepted to Booth and I came as A partner with very much the misconception that, you know, MBAs were for finance people and consultants. And I had nothing to do with that. And it was during my time as a partner at booth that I came to realize that it would not only be fun but also needed if I wanted to build a career in the U.S. so, so that's why I decided to apply and within a lot of self doubt and is this really for me and am I the person for that? It turned out to be the best thing I could have done for my career here in the US I originally applied because I thought it was maybe one of the only ways I could find to have have path for working visas. And then at the end I found out it was not only very good academically, it was very good personally. It served me the purpose of having a visa to work, but it was by far, I mean, not at all the main, the main thing that I got out of the booth bas.

And what was the most challenging part of your application journey? Whether it was personally logistically going through the testing, what did you struggle the most with?

For sure, the whole idea of the standardized test was a struggle for me. As you very well know. I didn't know how to add fractions when I started to study for the GMAT at first. And a part of me was very convinced that I had to take the gmat and I was like struggling with the test. And it was actually you who said, well, I think you should try the gre. And I was like, well, but I don't have any materials for that guy did the gmat. So it would be like a shortcut for me to do that because after all I have all the books and he's, he's here, he could maybe try to help me. And like through our conversations, I finally understood that the GRE was a completely different thing and my application was a completely different thing and I had to do my own thing. And then I decided to take the gre but it took me a long time to realize that it were, they were completely different tasks and, and it would take from me something different. So yeah, for sure, the most challenging part was standardized test.

I love that you brought that up. That just because your partner has gone through it doesn't mean that it's going to look anything like that for you. Oh, they applied with the gmat. I have to apply with the gmat. They applied to these schools. I have to apply to these schools. I mean, maybe the school's thing, but it's going to look completely Different. I think even if you're applying at the same time, you're two totally different people. It's going to look completely different, right?

Yeah. I mean, if you're applying at the same time, it was not my experience, but I have friends who did that. And I feel like it will require a lot of communication between the two of you, especially to understand what are the schools that can serve both simultaneously. But I totally agree with you. It should always be an. A submission about who you are and an application about who you are and what you can't contribute to that school. Never a bundle.

Yeah, absolutely. And, like, applicants that we work with sometimes as couples are like, oh, we're going to do the whole thing together. It's like, well, maybe we can do the school meeting together. But your essays are going to be completely different. Your recommenders are going to be different. You're not going to do your interview together. So each other. And that'll be great, right?

Exactly.

The rest is an individual activity.

Exactly.

And we talked about kind of the fact that you didn't fit the mold, which I think turned out to be one of the strengths of your application. How did you kind of think about that, and how did you work that into your application?

It was for sure one of my biggest fears when I started to think about applying. And I believe that it was probably one of the first questions that I brought to you. And I said, well, I have never done some of the basic things that most of these people have done. Is this gonna. Is this gonna hurt me? Is this gonna hurt my application? And I remember as if it was yesterday, you said, no, we have to play this to your advantage. This. This could be what makes or break for you in terms of, like, it shows your unique and why you're. You're. You, and only you can bring to the table what you're gonna bring. Exactly. Because you're so different. So the way we built that into my application was through a lens of uniqueness and originality, maybe like a piece of the puzzle that could only be brought by someone who does not have a traditional background. And I think that played very well in the whole context of my application.

And how did that translate for you once you got to campus? Of course, you know, we know that it was something that was great to tell to admissions committee that I'm going to bring my unique perspective. I'm going to be different than the majority of my classmates. But once you got to campus, what did that look like? What did that feel like as a student? Because I Know you were already on campus as a partner.

My best story for this was actually as a partner when I was auditing classes. But I have a feeling this played out several times throughout my time as a student. But like my best example for that was I was in a class that I loved. It was reputation, communication, and regulation, how media impacts businesses. I love that class. And at a time we were discussing. It was exactly like during the time when Mark Zuckerberg was. It was during his trial, and we were discussing the entire trial and how, like, regulations were impacting his business and how he had to, like, work the room to his favor, but also, like, how the media and the general opinion, the public opinion was playing in his favor or against him because of the reputation of the brand in general. And we were analyzing a part, like a section of a video that was a section of his trial, and we saw the video, and the professor paused it, and he looked at the, like, huge classroom filled with people, 65 students. The question he poses is, who here has ever had media training? And Nina, the marketing queen, was the only soul who raised her hand. And as an auditor of that class, I became the center of the class from that moment on because, like, what are the theories of, you know, know, media training? What are the. The tricks that you can, like, learn to move away from a question you don't want to answer? What are the things that you cannot do in terms of, like, posture, to not show, like, what you're feeling? That specific knowledge that I was the only one who carried became very central to the rest of the development of the class. And, of course, like, several other situations happened throughout the time I was at booth. But this was, for sure the one that was, like, most obvious in terms of, like, how my background could bring to. Could. Could favor other people around me. And again, it was a class of 65 people.

So that sounds like a movie. You raise your hand, you're the only one.

You become the focal point. And it's funny because, like, from where I come from, a media trainee, it's something like, so elementary. I raised my hand and I was like, huh? Yeah, I. I have several times I've seen people, by the way, I've trained people. Not only received the train, but I trained people, too. And I raised my hand and I was like, wait. You know, like, that feeling of, like, oh. And then. Exactly, exactly. But for me, it was something so elementary that, like, yeah, I have.

But awesome. Yeah. And we talked a little bit about this partner experience. What was it like to be a partner while you were applying, and what was the partner experience like overall?

So I'll break that into two. Right. Like, the partner experience overall. And how was that during my application? Being a partner at Booth is something so unique because you have so much as. As the student experience. You have so much flexibility to enjoy and experience that as you wish. Like, you can be as involved as you want, and no one will ever tell you this is where. This is the line where you're can stand. And from that on, you can only do if you're a student. Like, I never felt that, on the contrary, like, I had peers who would go to the Partners Club event and, you know, like, be in school when. When they were requested by their partners and that was their choice. Like, for me, I was auditing classes. I was part of multiple clubs. I was going to parties. I traveled with other Boothies without my booty. So I was literally, like, enjoying it as much as I wanted. And I never felt, like, excluded or limited because of my condition as partner. Like, I was a part of that community as any other staff or. Or a student or professor, whatever. So that's my experience as. As a partner. And I feel like this played out very. It was a. It was a key point in my application, I feel like, because I was so involved with Booth during my time as a partner, that not only I got a lot of help from Elder Bruce when I was. When I was applying, but also, it was almost impossible not to see how in love I was with that brand and that experience. And I feel like we did a good job. And when I say we, I say you and I of letting that show.

Yeah. And I think that's so critical because one of the things that the school is looking for is, you know, what's the love for the brand? How much do you. How engaged are you? And I think if you'd been there for a full year and you just, you know, sat around and watched Netflix, not that there's anything wrong with that. It probably wouldn't have helped your application much. Right. But being involved, being so active already made a good impression.

I was very. I was in a very auspicious situation to be as involved as I was, because, I mean, I didn't have a work authorization. I. I couldn't. I couldn't study. I couldn't do anything else. So what I did, like, aside, aside from being involved at Booth, I decided to volunteer. And I did a lot of that with my time. But I have so much time in my hands that I could do as Much as I did at Booth, and also have time to other things, but at the same time, like, I had peers, other partners who had their full time jobs, who didn't have time at all. And that was interesting also to see how it was not in any way, like, well, this person, he's never with us because he's always working. Let's not invite him. On the contrary, you know, like, well, he, he never gets to get, like, hang with us. Let's invite him every single time. And well, he'll be here when he can, you know, so there was multiple ways of enjoy that, that role. And I feel like they were all welcome.

And was there any difference in being involved in the Booth community as a student and as a partner? Did you notice any kind of shifts?

Yes, because I really had responsibilities at this time and I was, and I had to deal with recruiting. The truth is, I always took every single class that I audited as a partner. I took it very seriously. All of the professors were very, very upfront with me. Like, I will read if you write an essay, or I won't have time for that, or like, maybe my, my TA will read if he has time or not. But I always took it seriously, meaning I did the homework regardless of if I needed to or not.

Right.

But at the same time, like, it was a smaller course load, I would audit one or two classes at the same time. And when you're an actual student, like, you have a minimum of credits that you have to fulfill and on top of that you're also recruiting. So it's a lot. So. Yeah, but like, in general, to be honest, no, you can have people in the community to write recommendations for you and say how they think you could contribute to the school and why they think you could be a great, a great addition to the class. And I literally have had a friend who said she comes to class, she volunteers in events, she's a co chair of a club, she already, she's a student here. She's already doing it. So like, let her play tuition.

And you talked a little bit about recruitment and what was it like to go through that process because you're not recruiting for McKinsey or Bain or these, you know, more traditional processes. What was that like for you?

So, so I don't know if you remember this, but my initial plan, and I felt like a unicorn because I was actually doing whatever I said I was gonna, I was gonna do.

On my application.

Like what I wrote there was actually what I was doing, which I, I felt like a Unicorn. But like, like I said before, one of the things that prompted me into like pursuing my own MBA was visa issues, right? Like I needed my own visa if I, if I wanted to move forward in my own career here in the us One of the things that really worried me was I have to be in an industry that will sponsor me. So initially my thought was I'm going to recruit for, for consulting. I'll be very upfront about wanting to be in projects related to retail. After consulting sponsoring me, I will have my independence and can shift back to my industry. So that was my initial plan. So the initial cycle of recruitment, I was in fact recruiting for consulting, which was an interesting experience. But then as my husband's green card process was approved and started to actually become more real, I was like, well, I have to, I have to shift my strategy because I don't have to do this anymore.

Yeah.

And then for my full time recruitment, I was recruiting for what I wanted to like I did recruit for a very traditional industry. And then during my full time recruitment that was completely different because I like my emotions during it very, I had mixed feelings all the time. Cause I was like very happy and very excited about being recruiting for something that I really wanted to do and I was really passionate about. But at the same time it's much more lonely, right? And it's much more lonely because it's very unique and especially for my industry that like again, I felt like a unicorn. Nobody with my background, nobody recruiting for, for what I was recruiting. But also because of the timing of that recruit recruiting process, right? Like for banking and for consulting, everybody's recruiting up front and like very early on in the process you already have an answer of like have an offer or not. For me, sometimes I was looking around and all of my friends already had offers and, and as much as I was reaching out for companies, they were like, well, get back to us in May. And I was like, in May, all.

My friends have jobs, though you don't understand.

Exactly. So I had mixed feelings about it. And honestly one of the challenges for me was to deal with that like the certainty of like, this is what I want to do, so don't panic and go seek something that's going to be safer but not really what you want. And also dealing with the fact that, well, it is what you want, but you have to be patient and be brave, resilient, basically. So it was a bumpy, bumpy ride.

But it worked out really well. And if you guys listen to our other episode where we talk about her successful transition into the fashion industry. Make sure you check that out as well. But how did the school support you during that second process where you were looking more at non traditional companies?

To be honest, I feel like this could be an improvement opportunity for Booth. And I've. I love booths, and everybody knows that, and I think it's clear. But honestly, like, not everything's perfect. And I feel like they could be better at supporting students that are not recruiting for something that's very traditional and very known to them, basically, especially for someone who is not a native. Oh, yeah. Because I had two factors that played against me. Number one, the fact that I was recruiting for something that Booth had very little knowledge. And number two, that not only they had very little knowledge, I had several limitations connected to the fact that I'm an. I'm an international study student. And I had a very weird situation because my green card process was already ongoing, but I didn't have the documents already. And, like, how long, you know, like. And it's hard to explain this to some companies, especially if they're not used to recruiting MBAs.

Right, right. So, like Amazon, that's like, okay, whatever, we get it.

When you talk about, like, sponsoring, like getting sponsorship from McKinsey, getting sponsorship from Amazon, getting sponsorship from Nike even.

Yeah.

It's like they, they do it all the time.

So did you have to do a lot of that? Contact yourself? Like, you would just apply, almost like you were applying for jobs, had support.

From the school, and honestly, shout out to Natalie, thank you so much for everything you did to. For me, Natalie helped me a lot with the, with, with the common things like fine tuning my CV for an industry that nobody else knows. Great. Fine Tuning my CV as someone who has an experience that normally other people recruiting for that role won't have. So basically, like, if fashion in general is not used to recruiting MBAs, if I have an MBA, how does that play out in my favor? And how do I show that in my CV in my cover letter? How do I tell them that this could be something very unique about me that you don't want to miss? So this type of like, did they help me a lot with, like, connections? Did they help me a lot with building stories for an interview or something like that? Not really. Because, like, it's not as predict predictable as a consulting interview, for example. Cause we don't know. We don't know the industry. But at the same time, for any job you'll apply, you'll have to submit a cv.

Yes.

So Booth. Booth did help me a lot with that till the very end, actually, and it was successful.

And I think one of the other things that Booth is known for, of course, is the flexible curriculum, the academic flexibility. How did you use that to shape your experience?

It was actually one of the things that I wanted the most. And what's one of the things that I counted as my ally? Because that was the whole point, right? I am not an engineer. I'm not a business major. I am not an economist. Which is also funny because in the whole MBA environment, not only Booth, the spiel is very much like, we want diversity. But then, are you, are you an engineer? But at the same time, like, the thought of having to sit through a, a marketing 101 class with someone like my husband, who is an engineer and had never had a marketing class, was something that I just wanted to die.

When I thought about it. Time for you.

But the flip side of that was like, oh my God, what will I do if I had to sit in an accounting class with my husband? Like someone like my husband who's been doing this for his entire life. And like, you know what I mean? So the, the anxiety of having to share different levels of not knowledge with people who had a very different background from, from mine was something that was stressing me out since the beginning. And having this flexibility at Booth made all the difference.

And was it ever overwhelming that you had to be so self guided?

Number one, you're only self guided if you want to. Because the school is very much aware of the challenges of having the type of curriculum they have. So they offer a lot of academic support from staff. So the academic office will offer you help if you need. But that's the thing. Everything's requested. If you don't ask for it, they will not force you to do anything ever. So there are very few things that are mandatory at Booth, which is one of its beauty. Right? So there is a lot of things that are offered by the school. And the school also, they built a mentorship program within the student body that you get to pick students to help you with your academic planning. So for me, for example, I was like, I need to look for someone else who has a similar academic background. So I was like, this is an engineer. No, I was like, no, this is a business major. Not for me. And then I picked someone who was a 10, a professional tennis player before. So I was smart enough to understand. I was like, well, Julia, who's been playing tennis her entire life. And I was like, Julia probably didn't Know how to add fractions when she started to study for the GMAT as much as I didn't. And it was great. It was great because she looked at me and she said, well, you will have a lot of pressure not to take the babies. And I'll tell you, the babies are hard, so do take the babies. No shame in that. And when I say the babies, for all the non boothies watching this, the core curriculum will offer like different levels of classes. Okay. In one same subject. So, for example, in accounting, which is one of, one of the mandatory subjects that you have to. To do, they, they offer, for example, baby accounting, which the official name is not that, but we call it.

That would be great.

Don't really. Honest, I have no idea. But like, they offer baby accounting, but they also offer footnotes. Like you can check that credit with several different levels of that same subject. So there's a lot of pressure for like, no, I'm not taking the babies.

I'm taking pro accounts.

I don't mean to take the babies, but I, I had never touched a balance sheet. How am I not taking the babies? You know? So, yeah, Julia was fundamental for me when she was like, hi, the babies crazy hard.

But if you went to the marketing class, you know, you would be like, okay, this is super easy. Right. Like, that's not for me.

No, I went directly to like, I went directly to like data driven marketing. I went directly to the very hardcore high level marketing classes. Of course I was taking the babies for microeconomics. That. Never seen that. Yeah.

Which is, I think, the beauty of the flexible curriculum. But you have to have that self awareness, Right. Otherwise you'd really get in over your head.

Yeah, totally.

And I think something else that people talk a lot when they're looking at MBA programs is the culture. Right. And everyone says, oh, it's a collaborative culture. I don't think that I read an essay that doesn't mention the collaborative culture, no matter what school you're reading it for. Um, so looking a little bit beyond that, how would you describe the booth's culture? What are the people like? What surprised you?

It's cliche, but it's true that collaboration is the center of the booth community. And I felt that, I felt that a hundred percent as a, as a partner. So much so that I had a lot of help in applying. And people always ask me, like, did you apply somewhere else? And like, I'm not stupid, I'm not naive. I would not go through all that trouble to apply to one, only one school. I had a lot of help applying to Booth, yes. But I didn't have as much help applying to other places. But that's the thing. Like, one of the reasons why I wanted to go so bad to Booth was because I was being helped by all those people. And I. I was like, this is the level of collaborativeness that I'm going to have throughout the course in every single topic. Like, if I'm not understanding something in class, I will be able to ask somebody and is the level of commitment they will have to help me. And that's real. That's very real. Like, there's no. No one's competitive. Like, of course, here and there, there's always someone who's not as incredible, but, like, in a general sense, everybody's very much like, let's hold hands. We're going to get through. Through this together. So it's awesome.

And what was a moment in the program that pushed you to grow in a way that you hadn't expected?

Honestly, when I had to listen to Julia when she told me, like, take the babies. Because in that sense, I feel like I was very much an MBA student already. I was always the overachiever. I was always the best in everything that I was doing. I was always. But guess what? When you get to a place like Booth, everyone is like that, and everyone's the overachiever. Everyone's really good. So if you get into that groove of, like, no, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do the best. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna challenge myself. It's gonna be hard for you. So, like, the idea of having to just, like, put my feet on the ground and say, like, hi. There are a million things that you will have to do aside from studying. And this will be challenged by. Challenging by itself. Be real. It was. Take a step back, you know, like, be humble. This made me grow very much.

That's a great experience to, I think, go through. Everyone should go through that.

Being accomplished. It was very humbling. It was very humbling.

And what's something that you think people think that they know about Booth, or maybe a misconception that they have that once they get there, they realize is totally wrong?

Everybody thinks that Booth is a finance school. It's not.

It can be.

It can be. That's. That's the beauty of it. It can be. It's not. Like, it's. I would love to correct it, and I. I do correct everybody that comes to me with that perspective. It's not a finance school. It is a very quantitative, data driven school, which is a completely different thing. Right. It is a very data driven school. Meaning you will not make decisions in a marketing class without looking at numbers. You will not make decisions in a psychology class without looking at numbers. You will not make decisions in a microeconomic class without looking at numbers. So this is actually very standardized and it's very real, it's data driven, and it's, how do I quantify this information? And it's honestly very interesting in the perspective of someone who is always humanities focused. I learned ways to quantify feelings, like things that in my mind were before not quantifiable. How do I measure that? How do I measure this result? You know, like, how do I measure things that I normally wouldn't think about measuring?

That's super interesting. Yeah. How do you measure feelings? That's, I think, a great way to think about Booth.

I mean, is it more difficult measuring feelings than it is to measuring money? Yes. Yes, it is. But there are ways. Is it exact? No, but it's better than just, you know, guessing.

So let's get into our FastPass insights, the part of the podcast where I'll shoot some rapid fire questions your way. So what's the one word that you would use to describe Booth's culture?

And I'll be very cliche. Collaboration.

And what's the class or professor that most changed the way that you think.

I'll give you a class and a professor. Interpersonal Dynamics completely changed my life, not only professionally, but also, like, helped me with relationships outside of my professional life. I've taken learnings to my relationships with my parents, with my brother. It really changed the way I. I see relationships in general. And the professor, I'd say Professor Guy Roenick, who was the professor in this class that I was mentioning before? Reputation, regulation and communication. He. He is a mastermind and he's so inspiring. He's incredible.

And what was your favorite part of living in Chicago?

The lake. I come from Rio, and not having water at site is hard for me. Chicago is so beautiful. So beautiful. And I lived weeks in Chicago in which I saw snow and went to the beach during the same week. So that is surprising. But I loved it.

And what's a Booth resource that you wish more students used or knew about.

Career services post graduation?

Interesting. What do they offer?

Basically, like, the same support that they were offering me while I was a student. Like, if you have to negotiate an offer, if you have to think about next steps. Got laid off, thank God. Never happened to me. But if, if it happened to me, for sure, I would turn to Booth and like, hi, this is what's happening. I don't know where to go next. Please help me troubleshoot this. I would.

That's fantastic. And yeah, you've already paid the tuition, so you might as well use all of the resources that you can for forever.

It's there forever. Yeah, please use it.

And what's something that you didn't think that you'd miss about the experience, but now you really do?

It could sound unfair, but I had a four year MBA experience, and by the end, I was like, I don't want to go to classes. I don't want to, you know, like, I. The academic part, I was like, I'm done. And not only I had four years of Booth, I also had already done a master's before. So I was like, I'm. I'm done with the whole, you know, go to class and write an essay situation. And I miss that now. Like, I miss working those muscles.

And what would you say makes an applicant a golden buzzer admit for Booth?

Authenticity and passion for the school. So passion for the school, that shows through authenticity.

Yeah, I would agree. Like just putting in ChatGPT and having it write a list of things that I found on the website. Better than nothing, but not going to cut it. And for our final round, if you could give somebody who's applying to Booth right now one piece of advice, what would it be?

I'll circle back to that. I'll say, it's not about describing what's amazing about Booth and telling. Well, these are the reasons why I think Booth is amazing. It's telling. These are the amazing things Booths can offer. And that's how this will have a good impact to my life. And on top of that, these are the amazing things about myself that I can give to the school that will make that experience better for everyone around me.

I love that.

It's a two way street, right? Like, what am I taking from the school and what am I giving to that class?

I love that. Yeah. Booth knows what they have, right? They know the classes, they know that we know we're good. We know what we offer.

Oh, my God, you have Richard Tyler. Great. They know that actually he's there, you know, like he's, he's waltzed around those corridors. We see him, we know he's here.

Why are you bringing him up?

Yeah, you don't have to tell me that, like, well, Richard Toller was. Is very interesting for my path because of a B and C. And that's the reason why I have to have classes with him.

That's a different story.

That's a completely different story.

Absolutely. I think that's. If there's one thing people think about when writing the YBooth essay, think of that. Awesome. Nina. Well, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to have you. Great insights about the school. So I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us.

Of course, of course. My, my, my pleasure being here.

And again, if you guys haven't listened to our other episode about her career transition, make sure that you check that out. And thank you so much for listening. If you're planning to apply to Booth and you might help crafting a standout application, check the link in our description or visit ellenlawleys.com for more information about working with us. We'll see you guys in the next episode.