How To Break Into Luxury Fashion With An MBA, Explained By A Carolina Herrera Fashion Leader

Be realistic about what is that you're looking for in an MBA program and what is that you can take from it? Like, what is the part of your goal that can be achieved through attending an MBA program? Like, it's not magic. And it's not because you attended Harvard or not because you attended Booth or because you attended MIT that all the doors all of a sudden will be open to you just because you have that degree. So what is it in that experience that will allow me and empower me to get to where I want to be?

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined again by Nina, a former client who took her lifelong passion for luxury and used the MBA as a launchpad to take her career global. In this episode, we're talking about what it looks like to use your MBA to double down on a creative career and how Nina successfully moved her life to a new country, built a new network, and kept growing without losing her sense of purpose. So if you've ever wondered whether an MBA can enhance a creative or industry specific path, this episode has proved that you absolutely can. So, Nina, thank you so much for joining me again. It's such a pleasure to have you.

It's an honor to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Of course, of course. We always have a lot of fun. For those who might not have listened to our other episode where you talked a little more about your booth experience, could you please introduce yourself to us?

Us? Yes, of course. I'm Nina. I'm originally from Rio, Brazil, and I've always had a career in luxury retail. Started my career in a luxury shopping mall in Rio and this sparked a huge passion for luxury fashion. And this prompted me to pursue my first master's in luxury and fashion brand management that I, I attended is in Paris. And then for my internship within this program, I did period here in New York at Carolina Herrera. And then I went back to Brazil, worked for a perfume distributed distributor and I was brand manager for Burberry during that time. Burberry fragrances. So still within luxury retail, not fashion anymore, but still inside of the same environment. Then I worked for Rios International Airport as I was responsible for commercialization of retail spaces within the terminal. So if you're half Lauren and you want to open a store within the terminal, you come and talk to me. I was the person negotiating that space. And then, and then I came to Booth, explored a lot parts of my academic knowledge that I had not experienced and I had not explored before. Currently I work for Carolina Herrera again. I went Back to the same team and I'm a senior manager of wholesale marketing and operations for, for the brand.

Awesome. And you've had such an amazing career with so many cool steps. It's been really fun to watch all your success since the mba. Of course, when we met. Um, and let's rewind back to your booth experience a little bit. When you entered the mba, what was your vision for your career and how clear was that to you?

My vision was actually very, very clear. And I feel like this clarity that I had about the rocks in, in my path that I had to like, step was very built by us together during my application time. I feel like the application period really forced me to look into what was possible and what would serve me within my goals. And it was very clear to me. So my main goal was to be able to have a career in the U.S. short term retail related and, and long term back in fashion. And I understood that having the limitations of visa, work authorization and everything related to that. I had to go into an industry that was retail related, but would sponsor me and then I would be able to shift back to fashion, which is an industry that traditionally does not sponsor the H1B visa, which is the visa for people who has resumes.

Right.

Like the people that have portfolios, that's a whole different thing. But for, for someone like me who has a resume, they typically don't sponsor that. And that was very clear because I had to articulate that. So it was very clear.

And as you went through the recruitment process, we talked a little bit about this in the other episode. But for the people who didn't hear, how did you navigate that? How did you find your way towards the role that you have now?

I. I feel like I was very smart knowing the North. What was my North Star and objectively what was my real goal? Because so many things changed during the process that by, by very. Being very clear about what I wanted, really I managed to adapt as the, the environment changed around me. Right. But not losing sight of what I really wanted, basically. So to your question of like how. How was it during the. The program and how I started from point A and how I got to point B, where I am today, it was very clear to me what I wanted to do. And then during my program, immigration policies changed, administration's changed, my. My visa status changed because my husband got sponsored. So yeah, for me, navigating this was challenging, but because I had a very clear vision of where I wanted to go and where I wanted to be, it was very easy to adapt to new realities, considering having in mind what I want, basically.

And did you ever feel any pressure to kind of pursue those more stereotypical MBA industries like consulting? I know sometimes there can be this overwhelming pressure that people talk about.

Yeah. So basically in the beginning, the plan was this, right? I have to go into an industry that will sponsor me, AKA consulting. I want to be very upfront about the fact that I want to be in projects related to retail, which is my thing, so that in the future I could pivot back to, to the fashion industry. Basically. Recruiting for consulting is very predictable and you, you follow the path. Everybody else was doing the same thing. However, in the middle of my course, something amazing happened, which was my husband's green card got sponsored and approved by his company. And this came to me as a blessing, but at the same time, it got me in a very weird position of like, well, now you have to go into the unknown path of untraditional recruiting, which is not as predictable. The solitude of that is very anxiety inducing. And also the timing of that is very anxiety inducing because if you follow the path of traditional recruiting, IB Tech consulting, you very upfront, you're done with the process, you have an offer, and then you're just waiting to start with non traditional recruiting. This, the timeline of this is way later in the program. So yes, was I, was I seduced by the idea that if I just like, well, I have a green card, but if I keep recruiting for consulting, it's going to be much easier for me because I'll have, I'll have an answer right away if I have a job or not. Yes. But again, circling back to the idea of having clear goals and what you want to get out of your mba, I, it was so clear to me what I wanted that it really helped me navigate this uncertainty.

It's awesome. So as soon as you kind of saw the opening, even though it was risky, not, well, maybe not as risky, but more uncomfortable, you're like, this is what I want.

I have very uncomfortable. I'd say more uncomfortable. Way more uncomfortable.

And when you were looking for jobs in the fashion space, how much did resilience and flexibility play a role in getting your final job?

I think resilience and faith are the name of this game, to be honest. Like, you have to trust the process and trust yourself. Like, I knew what I was bringing with me and I knew my value when I was talking to these companies. It's, it's hard because it's no after, no after, no after, no. And different from recruiting for consulting, for example, that you get all the nos and yeses at the same time. Like when you're recruiting for a non traditional role, you get a no and you don't even know when you're going to have the opportunity to do some. Like, the timeline of those processes are completely not meshed. Like BCG, McKinsey, Bruhlenberger, they're all recruiting during the same, same moment and it's the same wave, the same timeline period. You get a no from Tiffany, which was one of the companies that I recruited for and I had absolutely nothing else in my pipeline.

So back to square one.

A part of me was like, what am I going to do now? Like, do I have to start from scratch? And yes, yes, you do.

That's trusting.

What are you going to do?

So you were on a completely different timeline, a completely different wavelength. And that ship has sailed at that point, right? The consulting ship has sailed.

Absolutely. I mean, can you try to reverse it? Yes. Did I try to reverse it at some point? Yes. But I, I was quickly reminded that it was not a good idea. Oh, nice coffee chat that I had with a consultant that said, well, you know, you, you're gonna get to be a generalist for some time. I'm like, I don't wanna be doing that. Bye. Bye.

When you were doing these interviews, how much did an MBA influence their decision? Like, how, how are you able to position that value of an MBA in those interviews?

Specifically talking about fashion, I feel like this is something that the industry in general has yet to mature to see the value not only in an mba, but in academic knowledge in general. So in fashion, this is a bit tricky, especially depending on what you want to do. So if you want to go into product development, if you want to go into merchandising, if you want to go to some of the routes that are more creative, they won't see a lot of value. But if you want to go into marketing, if you want to go into wholesale sales, like sales in general, if you want to go into finance, if you want to. So those types of rules in which you can portray direct connection between what you learned in class and what you're going to be doing, that's much easier. So it's also when choosing what you want to recruit for, because it's not like I want to, I want to go into fashion. Well, that's a bit too broad, right? Like what do you want to do within fashion? Right. Like when, when choosing that, choose a path in which an MBA will be more relevant for You.

And would you say maybe a. For somebody who's looking to make that transition, maybe starting at a bigger firm might be an easier first step.

Before going to Carolina Herrera, I was with Henbrick, which is a startup. I didn't even mention this during my introduction because it was, it was brief. I was there for a year, but I was a chief of staff to the CEO. It was a seven people company. Learned a lot. And honestly it was much easier in terms of like the limitations of my visa because it is a small company, especially, especially for the moment in which I graduated. Visa wise. Like, it was very uncertain because I had somewhat of a timeline for the green card process. But only God knows it could take longer, it could take, it could be faster, but you can't like be certain of a timeline. So it's always hard to assure a company that everything's gonna be fine, you know? Yeah. So in a bigger company, like I was talking to l', Oreal, for example, for roles in the luxury division to, to go into fragrances, doing exactly what I was doing for Burberry. And honestly, like, the hiring manager was so excited about my profile. Cause he was also a booty much older, graduated many years ago. But like, he was so excited. And he was telling me like, not every day you find someone with your academic readiness that has, you know, the background that you have. And then he was so excited about my profile. But then l' Oreal looks at me and says, well, come back when you have your green card in hands, like. And I'm like, dude, the process is open and it's happening already. But they were like, but you don't have it, do you? Yeah, it's hard.

And is there anything that you learned in the MBA that you use constantly in your work now?

Yes, a hundred percent. Two things that I learned during my MBA that I use every day. Number one, I can learn anything. Number two, Excel. I love that. And I became an Excel guru within the company because honestly, it's a, it's a bunch of people who went to FIT and they love fashion, but like, not necessarily had level of exposure to the tool. And it's something that, especially in certain areas, market of fashion, you will require that tool. And in sales specifically. Hi. I use Excel every day a lot. And to be honest, like, I feel like I gained a lot. Like one of the most important things that I do nowadays in my role is that I assist the vice president of sales with the reporting of sales. So every Monday, this is how my day started. Today I wake up the first thing that I do is to open the portal in which my retailers inform sales, and I prepare several reports that first go to my vice president and then go to my board, my CEO included. And so, like, my work nowadays has a lot of exposure, even outside the sphere of the company, even goes to the mother company, because I excel in Excel and I deal with the numbers and I process the data and I get it done much faster than. Than she was doing before I came along. So, yeah, I created models that really make. Make the process much faster. She gets to have much more information much faster. So as soon as she understood that I could do that, she saw in me the possibility of having much more information much faster, and to be empowered by that data. And trust me, my boss, she. Her retail math capacity is incredible. But like, the lack of the knowledge of data, that tool, which is so elementary for someone in an MBA program, makes such a difference for her.

And then one of your goals when we met was to transition your career to the US and you've done that, which we talked a little bit about. But what was kind of the emotional reality of moving to a new country? Of course it's really exciting that you reached this career goal, but what is it like from an emotional perspective?

I think that during this process, I developed one of my biggest struggles strengths, which is to be comfortable in the uncomfortable. I had already been through that when I moved to France for my first master's. And it was a struggle. Like, I mean, did I die from it? No. But as anybody else, there were things that made me sad and made me uncomfortable and like, the distance from my family, especially my French, was not as good as my English when I moved to France. So the language barrier, several things that make. Make you uncomfortable. And the truth is having to face this in such a global way, like your entire life is new. Right. Also made me adopt this idea of being comfortable in the uncomfortable for several other things. So, like, I am not afraid at all of, like, asking for feedback. I am not afraid at all about, like, giving feedback, like I said, having difficult conversations, you know, like, doing things for the first time.

I. I've done a lot of things for the first time.

Exactly, exactly. And I've done a lot of things for the first time several times. Like having to set up a bank account in a new country, having to, you know, like, I need a. I need a new cell phone. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So this entire process is challenging and it's exhausting. But also preparing scares you for if you're wise enough to take this knowledge and apply this into different sections of your life. Even in my marriage, you know, like, sometimes we have to have difficult conversations, and I'm not afraid of them at all, you know, but at the same time, like, I'll be. It's going to be uncomfortable, but after we go through it, it's going to be better. So endure it and resist and persist until it gets good. Yes, you will.

I love that. Yeah. You know, having lived in Brazil for several years as well, that there is a lot of discomfort. Right. A lot of I don't know how to do this, or I don't know why people think this is funny, or everyone's talking about a singer that I've never heard about, or, you know, just kind of. There's a lot of social isolation that you feel sometimes. But also. Yeah, like, how do I send a letter? Do I need to send a letter, or can I email it? I don't know.

I mean, this is great. You started a business in a country that you didn't know. Like, for you, it must have been crazy also.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I only studied at. Until a certain moment, I was only a student in new countries. You were a professional, like, and an entrepreneur. Yeah.

Not the easiest part.

Exactly.

And one of the things I think that is so important when you get to a new place is building community.

Right.

And with Booth, you know, that's already kind of built in, into the experience. But after Booth, when you move to a new city, how did you go about the process of building community?

Two things. First thing, I knew that I had to build my own social circles independently, regardless of what my husband was doing. So because of two reasons. Number one, it's good to have a life as, like, separate from his. Number two, this will maximize our chances of finding people. So if we're always doing things together, we'll. We'll only be limited to the people that we're interacting with at that moment. Like, I like Broadway shows. If I go to do activities that connect to that, I'll meet a certain type of people. He plays tennis. If he goes searching for activities that are connected to that, he will meet another set of people with different interests and who have different habits. So you need to maximize your. Your chances of getting to know people. Second thing, about forming a community and starting your. Your own social circles. I was lucky because a good part of my class also moved to New York right when they graduated. Maybe this is a factor to take into consideration. When you think about your steps after Booth, you know, like, really think of, like, where do I want to take my life and how will I make this long lasting? Will I have connections? Will I, Will I, will I like the people. If I'm not an outdoorsy person and I'm moving to Colorado for a job, am I doing the right thing? I was lucky to have people from Booth coming to New York, and I was wise enough to nourish these relationships after I got here.

Awesome. Yeah. That's such the nice thing about, I think, living in these metropolises. Right. That you have so many people and it allows you to kind of connect right away. Right. And what are you most excited right now about in your career?

I just got promoted.

Yay. That's exciting. Congratulations. Yes.

So basically, when I started at Carolina Herrera, I was doing everything that was operations wise, everything that was needed within the wholesale department. It was my responsibility. And now I'm also accumulating responsibilities connected to wholesale marketing, which is my bread and butter. Always. I'm the marketing girl. So it's challenging because for the first time in my life, I'm doing marketing within fashion. So I'm bringing a lot of knowledge. Like, I've done several of the things that I am responsible for now in other industries, and I feel like I'm very excited to see how my skills will play out in an industry that I'm actually passionate about. You know, like, I, I, I was a marketer in a shopping mall. That's fun, but not, I'm not as passionate as I am nowadays. So, so what, what did I learn in my past life as a marketer that I will bring to this role and this moment, and how will I align that to my passion? So I'm very excited about that.

And what are some of the trends in the industry right now that you're most excited about? Things that are shaping fashion.

Two things that are impossible, not to mention when you're thinking about my role route right now. First one, the merger between Saks and Neiman Marcus, which shifts completely the market. And we have yet to understand how this is going to play out. But for sure, it's challenging and it's interesting. And I'm intrigued to see how not only us, but also other brands will adapt to that and, well, tariffs. Right. Like basically every season we have a meeting in which Wes, which is our creative director, the entire company gets together in one room and he presents the collection for the staff, which is legit. My favorite day of the entire season. Like, I love that. And, Right. And, like, he talks about his inspiration. He talks about, like, how some pieces came to be. And he's like, well, I had a dream and I woke up in the middle of the night and I, you know, did a sketch of this and then I. Someone from the team kept developing. And sometimes it's like we were thinking about a completely different thing and this was a mistake and we loved it, so we kept it. So, like, you know, like, to. To see this and to hear from him how some things he's created out.

Yes.

And so right after this meeting, every season, we have what we call the merchandising meeting, in which the creative team leaves the room and us, like, wholesale retail merchandising team, product development, we stay in the room and we just, like, we discuss piece by piece. So how are we going to sell this? The strategy behind pricing, like, what is our margin in this? Can we, you know, like, can we be more strategic about this price? Like, should we lower this to be more competitive? What are. What are the other competitors, the other players pricing this for? Like, do they have similar items?

All this, like.

And it's a big discussion about the collection in general. And it was so, so interesting to see the mind of my CEO and all my C suite thinking about this discussion, facing the tariff change.

Oh, right. Because you've been through several processes of this, thinking about other things sometimes.

This was a discussion, of course, like, can we make this somewhere else? Like, does this embroidery have to be made in India? Like, do we. Do we have to import this? Like, can we make this, like, domestically within the U.S. like, can we make this in the atelier downstairs? Like, sometimes, like, discussions happen, but never in such rigor and in such intensity, in which it was very interesting to see the mind of my CEO, like, the types of questions she was posing, the types of suggestions that the team was, you know, coming up with. So, of course, the changes in tariff, 99% of the garments that are sold within this, this country are not made in the U.S. right. So if. And if sometimes they're made here, the materials come from somewhere else.

Right.

So it was so interesting to see a different perspective, impact, like, over the lenses of something that we don't control.

And did that impact the creative decisions at all? Did. Were there any pieces that you decided to leave behind or more of just a strategic, how do we make this work now?

How do we make this work now? And, like, especially my product development team left this meeting this time with a lot of homework of, like, can we bring this from Somewhere else. Can we find a supplier here? Can we, like, maybe just bring the buttons from somewhere and we can, like, finish the garment in. In here? So it changed a lot the type of discussion we were having. I mean, are, are. Are these trends that people expect to hear when they want to have a conversation? Like, the trends people want to hear, the color or this whatever silhouette, is it gonna be high rise or low rise? Fashion is so much more than that. And honestly, like, these two things are being so majorly discussed right now in such intensity that I don't even think about the colors when they compare to that.

You know, they're just glad they have a business school graduate now more than ever, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

And for somebody who is in a career right now thinking that they want to transition to fashion, what's a piece of advice that you would give them or a step that you think that they should take to start making that transition?

Fashion is a very closed industry. It's crazy how you go into people's LinkedIn and you see that they've been doing exactly the. The same thing since they were interns. And so it's hard to break into that because of that straight line that traditionally people follow in their careers. So if you want to break into fashion, I'd say look for the commonalities. So if you're someone who has worked in finance your entire life, try to think, do I like to be a controller? What are the overlaps that a fashion company could have that really resonates and, like, have really direct, transferable skills to what I'm doing now? And try to think about that even if. If that specifically is not what you want to do in the long term, but, like, for you to break into, think about that overlap, and then you think about your next step.

I think that's great advice, too, for people who are looking to move countries as well or things like that. You know, you may want to end up at C, but sometimes B is a necessary midpoint because you, if you can play to your transferable skills, play to what you're already good at. It's easier to take a chance on you than if you're doing something completely untested, right? Yes.

Like, especially in fashion, which is an industry that's very, like, closed break, break your goals into smaller, more digestible goals and go from there. It's gonna be much easier than, like, if you want to be a consultant, you could be, like, virtually anything before. Like, I've met musicians that became consultants. I've met veterans that became Bankers, you know, like it's something that's valued in that type of role. Fashion's not like that. So like break your goal into smaller, more digestible goals and go step by step.

I think that's great advice. And so now let's get into the part of the podcast our fast pass insights. I'll send you some rapid fire questions, just whatever's top of mind. What's been the most exciting part of starting over in a new country?

Getting to learn a new culture that I thought I knew. Because Americans are like very exposed. Right. Like pop culture in general makes you think you know it. Some of the things really surprised me and I was like, I never expected that. I never thought. I didn't know that.

That's so funny that you mentioned that. When I was living abroad, I think the most common question that people asked me was if I had bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning without fail, that would be like the most kind of, no, I don't have time for that.

Yes, ex type of question. Like, I mean, do you fry a pancake every morning? I'm like, dude, no, no.

I wish I had time for that. That would be great.

I love that. Yeah.

And besides Excel, what's an MBA skill that you use every week?

Emotional intelligence, which is a quality and a skill that I learned throughout my entire life. But I feel like it was enhanced during my my MBA period, especially for a class that I took that's called interpersonal dynamics. And it's for sure a skill that I use every single day of my life, not only in work.

Everybody should take that class. We should all take that class. Better people.

Yes.

And what's a concern that you had post MBA that ended up not being a big deal?

I was a hundred percent sure that I would never get a job and that I would die with a huge debt and that would be my ending. Not so much. I'm good. I'm fine.

You're great. You're thriving.

Everything's fine.

What's the best decision that you've made in the last year?

So the whole promotion that I got, I asked for it. I was very upfront about saying that I wanted to go back to be in touch with marketing topics and the company legit, very, quite literally reshaped several departments and several roles so I could do what I wanted to do.

Awesome.

And I asked for it. It was, it came from me.

Awesome. Good advice. Great. That's great advice. Have to ask for it. Have to promote yourself.

Love it. I mean, they didn't even know I wanted to do that. So when I brought it up to their attention, my boss was like, really? And I was like, huh? So, yeah, she's like, okay, let's, let's, let's think. Let's think about it and how we're going to do that.

Awesome. Awesome. And what's a recent moment you had that made you feel proud of how far you've come?

Maybe now. Maybe now. Not often I feel like we are forced to think about the past and the things you did to get to where you are. And this conversation is very interesting to see. My fears were very real at some point, and I'm fine. So, yeah, it's. It's interesting to see how we suffer from things that are not real.

Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to do that? Father.

My father always says it's very unfair to your, you know, past self to let your present self judge that human because, like, you just have more information now. But it's always good to praise your past self because she had doubts and she had. She kept going. So good job, girl. Thank you. You brought me here. You brought me here.

I like that. I'll have to keep that in mind.

Yeah, absolutely.

And what would be your golden buzzer insight for somebody who's in fashion and luxury or wants to break into the industry and is wondering whether business school is worth it?

Be realistic about what is that you looking for in an MBA program and what is that you can take from it? Like, what is the part of your goal that can be achieved through attending an MBA program? Like, it's not magic, and it's not because you attended Harvard or not because you attend a booth or because you attended MIT that all the doors all of a sudden will be open to you just because you have that degree. And honestly, like, there are people to like that I have conversations with that I could. They couldn't care less that I have a diploma from booth. Like, it's not. It doesn't mean anything to them. So what is it in that experience that will allow me and empower me to get to where I want to be?

Love that. And for our final round, for someone who is planning to pivot their career and move abroad, what's one thing they should prepare for that no one talks about?

Problems exist anywhere. Most frequently I see people going back to their countries of origins because they're disappointed. Like, especially people coming from Brazil, that we have this underdog mentality a lot in Brazil. And you know that because you've lived there for so long. Like, people think that just because you live in the US and you live in New York, you don't have problems. And if you come, if you go to another country with that mentality, you will feel disappointed, you will feel defeated, because problems, they exist anywhere. So the goal of going somewhere else should be because that somewhere else will bring you something meaningful, not because that somewhere else will solve your problems. Absolutely. I very much wanted to come to the US and not us specifically. I wanted to come to New York because the industry I loved flourishes here, and that was my goal. It's not because. Because you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. That was not the thing.

Right. It was a magical thinking that my life is going to be perfect and all my problems are going to go away. Like, if you're unhappy person in Brazil, you're going to probably still be an unhapp person in the US Unless you have a really good therapist. Nina, well, thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for talking so openly about your career in fashion and your experience in the US it's been just an absolute pleasure to have you.

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you not not only for the invitation, but thank you for everything you've done for me and to me and, and with me during my, my career. These past handful of, handful of years have been wild. And I, I know and value very much the role you played in it, and I'm very grateful, of course.

Well, it's. It's awesome to see you thriving and living the dream that we talked about so many years ago. It's really rewarding to see that. Hopefully, you know, here in a couple years we'll catch up again and you can tell everyone how you're, you know, at the very top of the fashion business.

Love that. Love that for me. Yep.

Well, thank you all again for listening. Here at Ellen Lawless Consulting, we love helping clients turn bold ideas into global careers. So if you're ready to invest in your future, whether that's in fashion business or both, visit Ellen Lawless Consulting or check out the links in the description to learn more and apply to work with us. Thank you so much.