E16 How IESE Builds Leaders the World Actually Needs w/ Admissions Director Paula Amorim

The world is full of uncertainties and that's why we don't believe in frameworks.

Right?

Because a framework is not going to work in every situation. What you need is a good mental structure that will help you pivot fast, make fast but informed decisions where you consider what others in the team or other teams are saying, right? That you listen, that you can process all that information. And I think that the essay touches all these points that will eventually make you a good leader.

You're at Easy Business School. Back with us to talk about what makes ESA truly unique. ESA is of course known for its global focus, case study method and deep emphasis on leadership and ethics. But what does that actually look like for students on a day to day basis? And how does ESA prepare graduates to succeed in today's rapidly changing business world? So if you're considering ESA or just want to understand a little bit more about what sets it apart, this episode is for you. So, Paula, thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to have you back. I know you're right in the middle of the application cycle.

Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to collaborate and to be able to share some insights. Talk about ESA has been an honor and a privilege for the past nine years for me. So I do it with a lot.

Of joy and you do it so well. If you haven't checked out our other episode with Paula where she talks about what makes a good applicant more about the application process, make sure you also listen to that one because she gives great advice there. So let's get into it. What makes ESA different from other top MBA programs?

Well, I think many things, but I'm probably the most biased person in the world to talk about ESA because I've done my MBA at ESA and I'm class of 2016 and I joined the admissions team right after. So it's been nine years that the only thing I do in my life mostly is to talk the good things about esa. But I think that what really sets ESA apart is our ultimate commitment to our mission.

Right?

Our mission is basically to support our students to have a career of impact, right? We want people that will use all their influence and their efforts to make the world a better place through a positive leadership. So we really think that with ethical leadership we can make the world a better place. So this is our mission and this comes with a very strong culture. I think that the SAE is the institution that have a been part of or have been exposed to that has the strongest and the most consistent culture that I've, that I've been a part of. And it's very interesting because this comes from the faculty, from the students, from the staff people in the cafeteria.

Right.

So there is sort of this ultimate kindness in how we treat each other. We go about the different issues.

Right.

So I feel it's a very special institution from that perspective.

Right.

That we have a very clear mission and a very, very strong values. And then once you're on campus, this really, it's very contagious and at some point the students themselves are sort of policing each other and expecting things to be done on a yesa way. So I feel that the culture is really what sets ESA apart. And I think that the culture also makes the fact that we use the case methods, as you've mentioned, this comes with like a very strong need of preparation. And then this preparation comes with our students being very professional and very committed. And it doesn't mean that you're going to be able to prepare all the cases 100% and perfectly all the time, but we do expect our students to have the commitment and to be prepared to contribute in class. I think that at the end what this means is that we become very good decision makers.

Right?

Because then you, you mix these strong ethics and these strong values of professionalism, spirit of service and integrity with very strong hard skills of problem solving, of critical thinking. So you become a very good decision maker where you're going to weigh the different factors and elements and make the best decision that you can, considering all the impact that that's going to have.

Right.

On people, on the environment, right now, society. So yeah, so this is, I think that this is what sets us apart.

And you mentioned a little bit about the case study and definitely I think that's one of the most important things that candidates love about the school when they're looking at it. What would you say makes ESA's approach different from other case based schools?

Well, one that we use the case method for everything.

Right.

So in the first year all the classes that you're going to have are going to be a case discussion. I think that this, this model, this format, only very few other schools in the world use it.

Right.

That I know of. It's Harvard and Darden and they are both in the U.S. so I think that this has an intrinsic difference, that it means that at ESA you're going to have a much more diverse pool of people discussing each case. And this has a huge impact.

Right, because.

And not only impact in the discussion, but also all the all the realizations that you as a student derive from that in the sense that you realize that a decision, a business decision, comes a lot from who is making the decision. It might sound simple, but it's a very powerful conclusion or realization, right. That it will be very cultural. You will be very influenced by who you are, your values, where you're coming from, your previous experience, your educational training.

Right.

So I think that what the essay provides, that I don't think any other school provides, is the case method in a very diverse environment.

Right.

Because the different lenses that each student has will expose different readings and perspectives of the business problems. If you're talking about your team or the larger group in your classroom, this means that the students will be listening to different opinions, more different opinions than they would in another, in another setting, in another school.

Right.

So I think that this is what really sets CSA apart, is the fact that we use it for every single course. We say that it's 80%. I say that the feeling is that it's 120% because you're always reading cases and you're always late and so. But it's going to be for everything, right? From marketing to accounting to corporate finance to strategy to entrepreneurship to leadership. So everything is going to be a case. And as I said, the case is a decision making exercise. So if you do it so much, it means that what you're always doing at the essay is practicing your decision making muscle.

Right?

Because at the end it is a muscle. So the more you practice and the more you use it, the stronger it gets. But this is embedded in this very diverse and international setting. Business is very cultural.

Right.

And. And there's no right or wrong answer. What is the right answer to a business problem? There is none. Because you can make a decision and the consequences or the effect will depend on the macroeconomic situation, on how the employees took it or how you communicate it.

Right?

Yeah, it's very. It's not black and white. It's not like a science that will say, okay, this was the right or the wrong.

Right.

So it's really about practicing that muscle and being exposed to different perspectives that will open your mind. And I think that this is something that only essay gives definitely I a lot of clients.

That's one of the main reasons is that they say, I want to look at business from a global perspective. And that's a huge draw for them for the program.

Yes.

And leadership development is also a core focus at esa. How does the program prepare students to become strong business leaders?

So I Think that this is one of the buzzwords in MBA application. And also it is one of the things that most people are looking into developing when they want to do an mba.

Right, right.

But how to develop is very subtle, right? Because again, it's not a science. And yes, it doesn't work with frameworks. This is important. It's not to say, okay, this is the, this is the style, this is the framework. This is a step by step for engineers and consultants like myself. This can be very frustrating because there's no guideline. And I feel that the leadership development happens in different stages at esa and it's very much as you go, right? Number one, it's a lot about learning about yourself. We do have courses on like self management and introspection. It doesn't necessarily come from there. I can at least speak about my experience. The learning about yourself comes a lot from being in a team and being in a team that is very different from you. I feel that this is the moment where one, you're going to put yourself outside of your bubble because we're all more or less coming from a bubble, right? I was very Brazilian, right? And I was working with consultants that were Brazilians that didn't have that much international experience and more or less in the same economic and social level that I was. And this really puts you in a box, right? And then it becomes very hard for you to see your strengths and your, and your weaknesses, right? And your blind spots because you're just surrounded by very similar people. And then when you come and you're such an diverse environment, then you understand that, wow, your communication style can be very peculiar, right? Or how you handle conflicts or how you handle stress, right? What's more important for you? So by being in this team setting is really when you learn about yourself. And I think for leadership this is extremely important, right? Like a conscious leader, a leader that knows who they are and where they are very strong and where they can actually add value to their team and their weakest points and where they're going to need other people to feel for that, for those gaps, right? This, this makes a good leader, right? Because see, okay, this is my strong point. I have to complement and build the team that will be, will add to the equation, right? Instead of just hiring people that are similar from you, right? So I think that the knowing about yourself is very important because then you know how to play your cards, right? So this is one, there's another one that is very important that we develop a lot at esa, that is communication. So the case method really makes you communicate well, because the case is okay. It's a situation, it's a problem. You have to, with the data that you have and your backpack, you have to decide what you would do if you were that person.

Right?

Great. So you're going to come, you're going to have your opinion, and it's going to be different from others. And then you have to find a way to. It's not necessarily defend your point, but to put your perspective.

Right.

And, and then people will understand in a way, and maybe the way they understood is not really what you're trying to say. So you have to find another way to say it.

Right.

And then people will disagree from you or you will disagree on people. So then how do you put it in a nice way that it's going to be constructive and that you're going to be able to build on each other's arguments.

Right.

So, and in a concise way, because if you're talking about the cohort, the classroom, you don't have five minutes to pitch your, your perspective, right. It has to be fast. It has to be like one, two, three sentences. And maybe the professor is going to probe on, on your points, right? And you have to, and you have to be able to develop. So communication is very important. And, and then three. It comes a lot with the teamwork and the empathy, right. Maybe with that you can also put humility, because as MBAs, we come with a very big ego because historically we tend to be very successful in whatever we were doing before. And the MBA really teaches you sometimes the hard way to be wrong. And I think that a good leader is very okay with being wrong. Of course we have to always try to make the right thing, but sometimes we make mistakes.

Right?

And if you have a good team, you're probably going to be wrong many times because you're going to have other people that will have different perspectives that will show you a different way that you haven't thought before. And this is great, right? But then you have to have the humility to say, wow, you are actually more right than I, than I was right. And, and I think that this is something, this is a skill that essay builds on you, is that you are going to be wrong many times, or maybe not necessarily wrong, but maybe someone is going to be more right than you are. And, and that's okay.

Right.

And I think that this is very important because, like, it reduces your ego a little bit and it opens you up to other perspectives, and that's how the empathy comes, right? Because we are working on a very diverse and international team. You really learn to listen. So the communication part also goes through the listening, right? So it's not only about you talking and putting your point, but you also listening to what others are saying, right? So this communication and this empathy in the team is very important to really, as I said, open up. We come not only with our egos, but we come with our truths, right? And in the MBA you realize that your truth is just one among many, right?

Right.

And people will come with different assumptions and hypotheses and understandings of the world that might be clashing or very different from yours. And you have to be open to listen and learn from them.

Right?

So there's another buzzword that is the global perspective. And I want a global experience and it's a buzzword and it's a great word, right? But it also comes with leaving behind a lot of the way you did things and the way you saw the world.

Right.

Like it really opens up. But you also have to be willing to let go of some, some old habits or lenses that you had. And I think that this team, very flexible and very malleable, right? And I think that a good leader is a leader that knows how to navigate, right? Because again, the world is full of uncertainties and that's why we don't believe in frameworks, right? Because a framework is not going to work in every situation. What you need is a good mental structure that will help you pivot fast, make fast but informed decisions where you consider what others in the team or other teams are saying, right? That you listen, that you can process all that information. And I think that the essaying touches all these points that will eventually make you a good leader. But then you also need experience, right? Like leadership is not something that you're going to leave the MBA and be ready. You will need to eventually become a manager, manage people and learn from that.

Right?

And that's where the humility also comes in. You will make a lot of mistakes when you become a new leader. And you have to be willing to sort of feedback on the way that you're leading and be vulnerable and.

Right.

Confident on your values. So that's why the self awareness is important. It's like, okay, I've made a lot of mistakes, but they've all been very well intentioned and very well informed.

Right.

I've given a lot of thought, but they were mistakes, right? And I'm going to learn from them and I'm going to move on. So I Think that these are all points or approaches that we take into leadership development, and they happened with the experience during the program, right? So that's also why we believe on a longer program, on a two year program, because there's a lot of this process that takes time to digest.

Right.

And to sink in. So we think that if you stay a little bit longer, you would be able to go through all the stages of this process and be more ready to be a good leader when you graduate.

And ESG has multiple campuses and a strong European presence. How does that shape networking and career opportunities for students?

Okay, so the different campuses means from an institutional level that we are building a local presence where these campuses are, right? So this means maybe more local students in these places from other programs, not the mba, but from other programs and so on. So this definitely makes the network stronger. From a direct perspective, in the mba, we don't touch all the campuses. So you might graduate and never having been to Munich, or never even been to Madrid, which is crazy. But we have, for example, we have an international module in New York. So for a week you can be in New York. We are thinking of more modules and we want to leverage the different campuses, right? So at least for people to experience the different campuses. But I feel that on the network, the campuses, they, they make more difference because they are building a local presence in the places where they are.

Right?

So we have Barcelona, we have Madrid, we have Munich, we have New York, and we have Sao Paulo. So I think that with that, it expands your network even from outside of the mba. And then if we want to go into like the networking and the global presence, it comes a lot with how the alumni network sort of keeps themselves in touch, right? And then we are organized in local chapters that we call. And then the local chapter is responsible for thinking together with the alumni department here at the sa, what are the events that they can organize?

Right.

So it's usually content driven, but then there's a social element to it, and the content will depend on the local chapter. But wherever, wherever we are, I think we have more than 140 chapters around the world. It will depend more on where we have a stronger presence. Like if there's only like 2 if I would 10 alumni in a certain country together with the alumni department here at tsa, what are the events that they can organize?

Right?

So it's usually content driven, but then there's a social element to it, and the content will depend on the local chapter. But wherever, wherever we are, I think we have more than 140 chapters around the world. It will depend more on where we have. We'll probably not have a chapter, but in the big places we usually do.

And for, I would say probably the majority of people end up in Barcelona, right? So if I ask about the Barcelona location or.

No, not necessarily, not necessarily, no. Many people would like to stay in Barcelona because it's just a great place to live. But it's also, it's also true that it depends on your goals. So if you are a non Spanish speaker and you want consulting, Barcelona is probably not going to be the best job market for you. So Barcelona can be very good. Well, if you speak Spanish it's definitely good. But there are startups and companies that have a stronger presence. Like if there's only like two or five or 10 alumni in a certain country, we'll probably not have a chapter. But in the big places we usually do.

And for, I would say probably the majority of people end up in Barcelona, right? So if I ask about the Barcelona location or no, not necessarily.

Not necessarily, no, many people would like to stay, don't necessarily demand it, right? So you can be an English speaker and still, still stick around. You do limit your chances. So being very realistic, if you want to stay in Barcelona, I would highly, highly encourage you to speak Spanish, right? The local language. It would definitely make life easier. And then startups, right? The tech industry in Barcelona is very strong. Textile, so fashion Spain tends to be very strong. We have a strong healthcare industry as well. So if you are looking into those, then Barcelona can be a great spot. But as I said, depending on your post MBA career goals, maybe Barcelona is not going to be the best fit. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't come, right? Because even if you want. I was having this conversation today over lunch with some Barcelona because it's just, just a great place to live. But it's also, it's also true that it depends on your goals. So if you are a non Spanish speaker and you want consulting, Barcelona is probably not going to be the best job market for you. So Barcelona can be very good. Well, if you speak Spanish it's definitely good. But there are startups and companies that colleagues. We've been for example, very good in placing people in London, right? So it doesn't mean that if you want to be in London after the MBA that you cannot come to USA because we have a very strong network there or if you want to go back to your home region, you also have, depending on where you're coming from. We are Going to have a very strong network there.

Right.

But I think that the Barcelona it's probably the place where most people don't necessarily demand it.

Right.

So you can be an English speaker and still. Still stick around. You do limit stay. I'm not sure I would actually have to challenge that. There might be a good split between other your chances. So being very realistic, if you want to stay in Barcelona I would hire a highlyer. Interesting. But many people would like to stay. But many people come back after some years. I did encourage you to speak Spanish, right. The local language. It would definitely make life easier. And then startups like the tech industry in Barcelona is very, very strong tech sector lifestyle. So fashion and I have colleagues that are coming back now.

Right.

Classmates that are coming back now. So it's definitely a city that stays with you. It's a very special city. Maybe in the longer run is something that you will eventually be able to do.

And I know Eazy has a strong emphasis on ethics and responsible business. How does that show up in the student experience?

It shows in the culture, as I said and tends to be very strong. We have a strong healthcare industry as well. I like to say that I feel that yes, if there was a niceness level or a niceness index, yesa would probably be above average. I think that people on campus tend to be really nice. But this also means that inherently we also believe that you can be so if you are looking into those then Barcelona can be a great spot. But as I said, depending on your post MBA career goals, maybe Barcelona is not going to be the best fit. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't come.

Right.

Because even if you want I was having this conversation today over lunch with some an impactful leader in any industry.

Right.

And there are the very like big industries that might even be more in need of an ethical leader than necessarily other. So this is. I think that this is one. But then we do have the Responsible business club and we have the Doing Good, Doing well, which is a responsible business conference that we organize every year. Colleagues. We've been for example very good in placing people in London.

Right.

So. So this is a way for. For candidates to be involved. But I think that what essay is trying to convey is that no matter the situation that you are, ethics should be part of your decision.

Right.

So it doesn't mean that if you want to be in London after the MBA that you cannot come to ESE because we have a very strong network there. It should be factored. So how it shows in like how it happens in the experience is that many times. Or if you want to go back to your home region, you also have. Depending on where you're coming from, we are going to have. The professors will touch upon this subject during the discussion.

Right.

And there is strong network there.

Right.

But I think that the Barcelona it's probably the place where most people in any subject we. We do have an ethics subject. But the idea is that even stay. I'm not sure I would actually have to challenge that. There might be a good split between. Other than this ethics disappears.

Right.

Because we should be talking about ethical marketing, ethical strategy. And we do.

Right.

We believe that the case method is a very good vehicle to reinforce this message. Every decision should consider the ethical implications of it. But many people would like to stay. But many people come back after some years. I did. Yeah.

I could not agree more.

Yeah.

We should all be thinking about that.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I have colleagues that are coming back now.

Right.

Classmates that are coming back now. So it's definitely a city that stays with you. It's a very special city. Maybe in the longer run is something that. Yes.

So let's get into the part of our podcast where we go through the fast pass insights, shoot you some rapid fire questions. So what's one word that you would use to describe ESA's culture?

Collaborative.

I would agree. Having quite a few students over the years. I would agree. And what's a must do experience for every ESA student?

Multi culture. You will eventually be able to do.

And I know ESI has a strong emphasis on ethics and responsible business. How does that show up in the student experience?

It shows in the culture, as I said. Well, I think this is a must do because everybody actually does. But I think this is a nice. It's sort of the crowning of the. The cultural diversity that we have at. Yes. It's a party. Okay. So yeah. So once a year the students organize. We call it multiculting. And it's sort of the party that celebrates all the cultures.

Right.

So I like to say that I feel that Yesa. If there was an A niceness level or a niceness index, USA would probably be above average. I think that people on campus tend to. It's not going to be every culture or every country because we have 60 and we don't have 60 booths. But usually you have stands. Some Brazilians would have a stand and then we would bring food and drinks.

Right.

That's usually how the expressions usually of our culture is usually through. Beautiful. Really nice. But this also Means that inherently we also believe that you can be an impactful leader in any industry.

Right.

And there are the very. Through food, drinks and dancing. So we have presentations so Brazilians would do some samba and some carnival related stuff. And then you have the Indians doing their dances and their Bollywood and the Chinese with the dragons. So the different groups, they sign up to do a presentation like a cultural presentation. And it's very fun. Like big industries that might even be more in need of an ethical leader than necessarily other. So this is. I think that this is one. But then we do have the response and it's very expected like throughout the year. And I think that this is definitely a must do for business club and we have the Doing Good, Doing well which is a responsible business conference that we organize every year year. So this is a way for. For candidates to be involved. But I think that what ESA is trying to convey experience at esa. Yeah.

Sounds fun.

Yeah. Yeah. It stays in the memory can get a bit crazy, you know, because it's a lot of like different drinks.

Can I come just as a guest?

But it's really nice. It's really nice.

And what's your favorite spot in Barcelona?

My favorite spot is the beach. We are very privileged, very privileged to have the beach. I was raised in Rio so I'm definitely is that no matter the situation that you are, ethics should be part of your decision.

Right.

Beach girl. And I feel there's something about the ocean that just. I don't know, I think it should be factored. So how it shows in like how it happens in the experience is that many times puts you in your place. Like it's so immense and grand that it just makes you feel a bit small and fit all your problems into perspective. You know, it's usually what nature does.

Right.

Although the professors will touch upon this subject during the discussion.

Right.

And here at the sa we are a bit far from the. From the beach. It's just very accessible.

Right.

And we have a. In any subject. We have. We do have an ethics subject but the idea is that even the coastline. So yeah, it's definitely the beach I love.

And what's the biggest misconception about esa?

We put a lot of emphasis on the academic rigor.

Right.

And how difficult it is. And. And then many people when just hearing this part and this ethics disappears.

Right.

Because we should be talking about ethical marketing, ethical strategy feels that then the networking and the building relationships part is going to be easy. And we do.

Right.

We believe that the case method is a very good Vehicle to re sort of neglected or non existent. And I think that that's not true Force this message. Every decision should consider the ethical implications of it.

Right.

I think it's actually the opposite. Because we study so much and because we go through so much, so many hard things together, this really bonds us.

Right.

And yes, I have something else that it's very peculiar is that.

Yeah, I could not agree more. Yeah, we should all be thinking about that.

Yeah.

The campus where we are, it's only the full time MBAs.

Right.

So we spend this.

So let's get into the part of our podcast where we go through the.

Fast pass in a lot of time on campus. But this also means that we're always bumping into each other.

Right.

So the way that the cohorts are structured, you know that you spend a lot of time together and the fact that. That we're all very international. There isn't one nationality that overshadows the others.

Insights shoot you some rapid fire questions. So what's one word that you would use to describe.

Right.

Even the Spanish, they are the majority. Intentionally because we want to have a. ESA's Culture Collaborative.

I would agree. Having quite a few students over the years. I would agree. And what's a must do experience for every ESA student?

Multicultural Spanish bases. Yeah, even them. They are 12%, 15%. So it's interesting because this means that you can bond with anyone.

Right.

They usually do have your national group like of course. Yeah, the president. But you make connections and bonds very quickly.

Right.

We do put a lot of emphasis on the academics because healthy. Well, I think this is a must do because everybody actually does. But I think this is a nice. It's sort of the crowning of the. The cultural diversity that we have as we really want people to know that they are signing up for a very intense experience and then they think that there won't be time to socialize and you know, like to go to parties and dinners. And this is not true. Like we do actually do a lot of the social part and the bonds that we make at the SA are very strong. So I think that this could be a misconception that people can have about.

Esse and to kind of wrap things up.

It's a party. Okay. So yeah. So once a year the students organize. We call it multi culting. And it's sort of the party that celebrates all the cultures.

Right.

So today what is your golden buzzer insight for applicants who are considering ese? Something that is crucial that they keep in mind while applying.

Well, Be very well prepared to talk about not only yourself, but about essay. There is something that we call the essay love. It's not going to be every culture or every country because we have 60 and we don't have 60 booths. But usually you have stands. Some Brazilians would have a stand and then we would bring food and. And we try to measure it, right? If it's low, if it's okay, if it's high. So the yes, I love is very important to show and demonstrate. So if you have essay as your priority, make sure that you do enough research that you. So that you can demonstrate it. Demonstrating this passion for essay is very important because I think that the essay is a very particular drinks.

Right.

That's usually how the expressions usually of our culture is usually true through food, drinks and dancing. So we have presentations. School. I don't think it's a school that everybody would be happy at.

Right.

Because maybe they're looking for different. So Brazilians would do some samba and some carnival related stuff. And then you have the Indians doing their dances and their Bollywood and the Chinese with the dragons. So the different groups, they sign up different experiences and they have other priorities. If you demonstrate that you've done the research, you've talked to people and you still think that yes is a great choice for you, this will make our life easier on thinking that maybe we are a great school for you and maybe you are a great fit for us. Right? So I think that this is a must have. And maybe during the research again you will realize to do a presentation, like a cultural presentation. And it's very fun and it's very expected like throughout the year. And I think that this is definitely a must do. PSA is not your top priority and this is totally fine. I don't think that every candidate is for every school and every school is for every candidates.

Right?

So doing this research is very important. And then experience at esa. Yeah, sounds fun. Yeah, yeah. It stays in the memory can get a bit crazy, you know, because it's a lot of like different drinks. Can I comment?

Just as a guest.

But it's really nice. It's true. And if you think that ESA is the good school for you, really demonstrate it.

Right?

Don't be shy and hide your passion. Really, really like it. And it can offset some other, maybe weaker parts of your application.

Well, thank you so much. These have been amazing insights. I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much. Aline. It's always a pleasure to be able to share some advice, some insights. As I said I think that the application journey can be very special. It's a very special moment in our lives because it's the beginning of a very transformational journey.

Right.

So if we start it right and.

We kick off and what's your favorite spot in Barcelona?

My favorite spot is the beach. We are very privileged, very privileged to have the beach. I was raised in Rio, so I'm definitely a beach girl. And I feel there's something about the ocean that just, I don't know, it puts you in your place. Like it's so immense and grand that it just makes you feel off.

Right.

It will only add to the MBA experience. So I'm very happy to be able to contribute and I hope candidates find it useful.

I'm sure they will.

Yeah. Thank you, Ellen.

And if you're thinking about applying to ESA and you need some help, please visit our website@EllenLawleyce.com to learn more about working with us. So thank you so much and thanks everyone for watching and listening.

Thank you. A bit small and have all your problems into perspective. You know, it's usually what nature does, right. Although here at the sa, we are a bit far from the, from the beach. It's just very accessible, right. And we have a big coastline. So yeah, it's definitely the beach I love.

And what's the biggest misconception about ese?

We put a lot of emphasis on the academic rigor, right. And how difficult it is. And, and then many people when just hearing this part, feels that then the networking and the building relationships part is going to be sort of neglected or non existent. And I think that that's not true.

Right.

I think it's actually the opposite. Because we study so much and because we go through so much, so many hard things together, this really bonds us.

Right.

And yes, I have something else that it's very peculiar is that the campus where we are, it's only the full time MBAs, right. So we spend a lot of time on campus, but this also means that we're always bumping into each other, right? So the way that the cohorts are structured, you know that you spend a lot of time together and the fact that we're all very international, there isn't one nationality that overshadows the others, Right. Even the Spanish, they are the majority intentionally because we want to have a strong Spanish basis. Yeah, even them, they are 12%, 15%. So it's interesting because this means that you can bond with anyone, right? You usually do have your national group like.

Of course, yeah.

The president but you make connections and bonds very quickly.

Right?

We do put a lot of emphasis on the academics because we really want people to know that they are signing up for a very intense experience. And then they think that there won't be time to socialize and, you know, like to go to parties and dinners. And this is not true. Like, we do actually do a lot of the social part and the bonds that we make at the essay are very strong. So I think that this could be a misconception that people can have about essay.

And to kind of wrap things up today, what is your golden buzzer insight for applicants who are considering essay? Something that is crucial that they keep in mind while applying?

Well, be very well prepared to talk about not only yourself, but about essay. There is something that we call the essay love and we try to measure it, right? If it's low, if it's okay, it's high. So the essay love is very important to show and demonstrate. So if you have essay as your priority, make sure that you do enough search research that you so that you can demonstrate it. Demonstrating this passion for essay is very important because I think that the essay is a very particular school. I don't think it's a school that everybody would be happy at, right. Because maybe they're looking for different experiences and they have other priorities. If you demonstrate that you've done the research, you've talked to people, and you still think that essay is a great choice for you, this will make our life easier on thinking that maybe we are a great school for you and maybe you are a great fit for us. Right? So I think that this is a must have and maybe during the research, again, you will realize that yes is not your top priority and this is totally fine. I don't think that every candidate is for every school and every school is for every candidate, right? So doing this research is very important. And then if you think that essay is the good school for you, really demonstrate it.

Right?

Don't be shy and hide your passion. Really, really it. And it can offset some other, maybe weaker parts of your application.

Well, thank you so much. These have been amazing insights. I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much, Aline. It's always a pleasure to be able to share some advice, some insights. As I said, I think that the application journey can be very special. It's a very special moment in our lives because it's the beginning of a very transformational journey, right? So if we start it right and kick off right, it will only add to the MBA experience. So I'm very happy to be able to contribute, and I hope candidates find it useful.

I'm sure they will.

Yeah. Thank you, Ellen.

And if you're thinking about applying to essay and you need some help, please visit our website@Ellen Lawless.com to learn more about working with us. So thank you so much and thanks everyone for, for watching and listening.

Thank you.