E17 How One Working Mom Balances AI, Career & Family and Wins w/ Ebisanine Eyesan

As a working mom, my schedule was already full and I wasn't sure how I balance parenting, work and school without something falling through the cracks. Right. I worried about missing important moments with my children and not being able to fully show up for work. So that was a concern. But I also knew that if I wanted to grow in my career and stay relevant in a tech driven world, I had to invest in myself. So I committed to the process. I created a routine and gave myself permission to pace the learning when I needed to. So it hasn't been easy, but it's been worth it. And having a program that offered, you know, both structure and flexibility made a huge difference.

Everyone, welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Evie again, a former client who didn't just take on the challenge of going back into school.

Yes.

So happy to have her. You were such a great guest the first time and Evie is super unique because she didn't just take on the challenge of going back to school, she did it while raising a family. Balancing school, work and personal life is hard enough, but what it's like doing a demanding degree as a parent, how to juggle deadlines, parenting and personal time is difficult. And I know Ebby has great advice for other parents thinking about going back to school. So thank you again. Let's get started. If you could maybe tell everyone a little bit about you.

Yeah. Awesome. It's. It's again an honor to be here. Thanks for having me, Ellen. Just a little bit high level overview of my professional background. So I am a certified SCRUM Master and project management professional with almost a decade of experience in driving high impact projects and products while building self organized teams. I have a bachelor's degree in Information Resources Management and full certifications in Agile Project Management. I am currently expanding my skillset through a postgraduate program in artificial intelligence and machine learning for business applications to complement my product and delivery expertise. So if you want to learn more about my career journey and my background, feel free to check out my LinkedIn and yeah, you get more insights.

Definitely checked out her LinkedIn. She is incredibly impressive and always learning more. So I'm sure there'll be new things on there by the time this comes out.

Awesome. Thank you.

So before you started the program, what was your biggest concern about juggling school and parenting?

Yeah, I would say my biggest concern was time. Right. Just plain and simple. As a working mom, my schedule was already full and I wasn't sure how I balance parenting, work and school without something falling through the cracks. Right. It's almost like something's got to give, you know, I worried about missing important moments with my children and not being able to fully show up for work. That was a concern. But I also knew that if I wanted to grow in my career and stay relevant in a tech driven world, I had to invest in myself. So I committed to the process. I created a routine and gave myself permission to pace the learning when I needed to. So it hasn't been easy, but it's been worth it. And having a program that offered both structure and flexibility made a huge difference.

Yeah, and I think that's awesome because moms are superhumans who can do anything. And I think you're evidence of that, even not studying. But it's incredible how moms always seem to find time to.

I don't know how we do it.

I really don't.

It's the grace of God.

And what does a typical day look like for you? How do you manage your time?

Yeah, I would say a typical day for me is definitely a balancing act. Right. I'd start my mornings, you know, getting my kids ready and off to school. I literally wake up at 4am every weekday. And then. And then I shifted to work mode. Once I drop them off, my work days are usually packed. I work remotely, so I've got lots of meetings, strategizing, planning sessions, problem solving, risk mitigation, and negotiations. I do a lot. And I really had to be intentional about the time that I studied. So most of my learnings happen in the evenings, after dinner or early in the morning before my day got busy. Hence why I wake up very early. And it's just so that I can have a head start on my day. I also committed my weekends to catching up on lectures and working through projects. I try to carve out at least an hour a day during the week to stay on track, so I wasn't really overwhelmed on the weekends. Time management became less about finding extra time and more about being consistent. And honestly, giving myself grace was a big part of it too. So some weeks were smoother than the others, but I kept showing up and stayed committed to my wife.

Was that something difficult for you to give yourself grace? I know for me, that was a really difficult lesson to learn. Like, no. Every week I have to do my best. It has to be as good as last week or better. If I didn't, I'm a failure. I know. That was a lot of therapy for me to get to that point.

Yes. Oh my gosh, Ellen, I'm so glad that you brought that up. I am a go getter, and I am someone that when I start something, I have to finish it. Like, if I'm doing something, I stretch myself to finish it just so I can have that sense of accomplishment that, yes, it's done. And I remember I was feeling very burnt out around November, December last year, and I have a career coach. And she was just saying, eddie, I don't want to meet with you again until January. You need to give yourself grace. Right. Like, she was literally saying, your goals. You got to put your goals on hold right now and focus on yourself. Right. So give yourself at least three months to kind of recuperate. I know you want to get it done. I know you want to get things finished, but don't schedule time on my calendar just so you can give yourself grace. Because we met literally, like, every two weeks, and I had homework that I needed to do on, like, a professional standpoint. Right. Maybe it was optimizing my LinkedIn profile. Maybe it was, you know, updating my resume. Maybe it was restrategizing on my future goals. And she was like, let's put that on hold for now. And when you're a go getter and you want to get things done, I think you have to learn to give yourself some grace and to pause, because when you crash, it takes time for you to pick yourself back up. I am so grateful that she had that tough conversation with me because it really helped. It really helped. By the time I met with her again in January 2025, I was rejuvenated. Right. I had a fresh perspective. Right. And I think that session was even more productive than the last two that we had just because I was so overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah.

Blocked by your coach.

Listen, throw you to a break.

I think it's such a good point, too, that, you know, with that, the kind of culture that we're in, you know, you have to hustle, you have to do more, you always have to do better. That once you're burned out, it's really hard to recover.

Yeah.

And we're meant to rest a bit and unfortunately.

Right. Oh, my goodness. That was a great question. Thank you.

Of course, of course. And good advice. Great advice. And what's been the hardest part of balancing all of this?

Yeah, I would say the hardest part of doing any program, be it an MBA, PhD, you know, postgraduate program, one like this one, is the constant juggling as a parent and then. And the guilt that can come with it. So there were nights and weekends when I had to choose between finishing a project and spending quality time with my children. And even though I knew that I was doing this to build a better future for us, that balance was tough emotionally. Also, you know, managing energy levels was a challenge. You know, after a full day of work and parenting, opening up a jupyter notebook to focus on machine learning models, it's, it's not always easy. You're like, why am I even doing this? But I reminded myself that this was a short term sacrifice for a long term growth and I stayed grounded in that perspective. So like I said, it's so important to have a strong why because that's what made it easier to push through on hard days.

And she mentions a lot about that, having a strong why in our other episodes. So if you haven't listened to that yet, please check it out. It'll be great insights there.

Awesome.

And I'm curious, you are doing a very technical program in AI and machine learning. How much do you share with your kids about what you're learning about what it's all about? It's kind of hard.

Oh my gosh. Don't like even about my work. Right. Because I have littles. Right. So I have a four year old and a six year old and my kids understand that I work like I love what I do and they understand that I'm driven by having, you know, work that I do and I'm making an impact, but I don't. The only thing that I explained to them is, oh, I have a project that I have to do this weekend so we might not do movie night on Saturday because mommy has a project. When it comes to my work, I try to explain to them even when I'm, you know, sort of coaching them, like, okay, so you have to be accountable. Like I tell them I said, even I am accountable to my boss at work. You have a boss? I have a boss. I have someone that I report to and I'm accountable to this person. So it's the same way as your parent. You kind of have to be accountable to me. Right. So those are the little things that I explained to them. I don't go into the technical aspect, so they know that I do important work. But it's just hard to explain it to little. Yeah.

But soon, I mean, with the age that they're at and how AI is shaping everything, I'm sure when they're a little bit older and you can help them with their homework and give them.

Yes, yes. My daughter actually, she, she's taking a tutoring class. So she takes maths, English, coding, chess and Bible Study. So she's, she's, she's learning how to code. Yeah.

She's 6.

She's 6. She's six. Wow. Her favorite is chess. Hey, guys. That's so cool. Yes. She played a game with her tutor and she lost. So she was like, oh, mommy, I lost today. I'm like, you win some, you lose some.

This is a good life lesson.

Oh, that's awesome.

That's awesome. I can't believe learning how to code at 6. That's incredible.

They have to work. Like I said, we're in that age, and it would be nice for her to have that skills from a very young age.

That's incredible.

That's incredible.

And has there ever been a moment in the program where you're like, I don't know if I can do this. And how did you push through if that happened?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I told you, like, I was nearly fasting in November and December last year. It's almost like I was. I was almost burnt out. I was literally on the verge of being burnt out. And there were definitely moments where I thought, I don't know if I can do this. Usually it's, it's, you know, late night after a long work day, and I still had parental responsibilities. I had project deadlines moving. I had buyers to put out at work. And, you know, I'd be staring at a data set and be just completely drained and questioning if I had over commit committed. But that's one of my. I tend to over commit. I'm working on it.

Check my letter of recommendation. That's my feedback point.

What, what helped me push through was reminding myself why I started. I know, I know I sound like a broken record, but you, you have to have a why, because those are the. That's going to be your North Star when it gets hard. Like I said, I'm not doing this to just check a box. I want to grow and I want to stay relevant in a changing technological landscape. And I also want to open new doors for myself and my family. So I leaned on my support system as well. You know, I have friends, family, and my career coach. I had my mentor and my program manager who was incredibly and is still incredibly understanding and flexible when I need extensions for deadlines. So ultimately, ultimately, I gave myself permission to take breaks when I needed and celebrating small wins along the way. So that mindset was just as important as my external support. So it wasn't about perfection, even though I'm getting straight A's, but it was about progress. You Know, every time I pushed through one of those difficult moments, I came out more confident and more convinced that I belong in this space.

I love that. Yeah. Like, anytime you have one of those difficult moments. I can't remember where I read that, but I read that recently that anytime you're going through a moment where you're doubting yourself or you feel like giving up, it's because you're pushing yourself. It's because you're trying to do something new, grow. And people who don't face those moments never push themselves. They're never growing.

I always think it propels you into your next level. So I embrace the challenge. Like I said, I embrace it. I may be down, but, like, again, having a strong support system system, people who can talk you out of it and people who can be honest and say, you need to take a break, you need to give yourself some grace. You've come a long way. I think support systems are very important in these type of journeys.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. The number of people that I talk to, former clients, that said, you know, I almost burned out during my degree program, it's a high number of people. And I think thinking about what that support system is going to look like before you start.

Yeah.

Makes life so much easier. Not easier, but it helps later on to know that they're already in place.

It does. And also having people around you who have walked through a similar challenge, like, you know, my brother, my sister, Both did their MBAs in Ivy Leagues. You know, when I was going through one of those moments, my sister will call me and, you know, tell me, listen, it's. It's gonna get better. Right. You just need to prioritize properly, manage your time and again, give yourself some grace. So that was very helpful. Yeah.

And I don't know if you want to talk about it, but I would be really interested to hear you mentioned that you were kind of on the verge of burnout. For you, what were those warning signs that you kind of realized that burnout was about to happen.

So it did impact the value of the work that I was doing. Like, for example, you know, working with my coach, you know, she would give me a homework, you know, do this on your LinkedIn or do that, or check out your resume. I think at that point, I was also trying to look through my entire career and then transform my accomplishments. So things like that, I wasn't putting in my best effort because my capacity was divided. It never really impacted the work that I did professionally because I love what I do. I'm really Good at what I do. But it was in the areas where I was, I was being challenged the most. Right. So like the program. Right. I was having a hard time understanding those concepts. And when I paused the work on my career, like rebranding, that sort of thing, you know, if that's the right word, and just focused on my work, school and family. Right. And I also took a long break as well. So we had a break during the holiday from school. So it was almost like a three week break. Whereas previously it was back to back. Every week we're doing quizzes, we're doing projects, you know, so I just took a deep breath and that's, that's really what helped me.

Yeah, for sure. I used to be have that. I sometimes still do, but have that mentality of I'm going to use the holiday to catch up, I'm going to use the weekend to like work on a couple of things that I want.

To get out your breaks.

Learning to sit.

Nope. Take your breaks. You have to create that strong boundary. Yeah, absolutely.

Otherwise you won't make it. You won't have the energy to do all those things and be present in all those places that you want to be present.

Right, agreed. And another thing is, oh my gosh, this is so helpful. I'm so happy I remembered is my routine. So I wake up 4am it gives me at least two and a half hours before I wake my kids up and get them ready for the day. And then I go to bed really early. So I go to bed at 8. Typically I'm not asleep until like 10:30. So I'm still able to have my full 8 hours of sleep even though I wake up early. So I have more time during the day to get work done. So changing my schedule, my sleep routine, staying healthy, taking my vitamins, those things count.

And what's something about being a student and a parent at the same time that you think people don't talk about enough?

Again, it's just the, the juggling, right? It's just the juggling. You know, time management. I think anyone who is in school and is a parent will definitely talk about that. I think that will be the topic of discussion is how are you balancing it? Right. I think for me, I would say the thing that they don't talk about is having to explain to your children that you're in school. Because like I said, I have littles and my daughter's like in school. See your back. What do you mean you're in school? I'm in school. I do it online. I have homework just like you, so I need to work on my homework. So I don't know if any other parent can resonate, but you have to explain to your kids that, yeah, I'm in school.

And for parents who are thinking about going back to school, what do you think that they need to think about before they apply?

Think about how you would, well, think about your needs. So like I said, I was this close to enrolling in a tech mba. One year accelerated tech MBA at nyu. And I had to. I mean, I got the admission, I got scholarship, but it required me to not work for that one year. That was just a compromise I was not willing to make. It may be different for anybody else, but I need my income. Right. There's nothing like having an income, being able to still be able to support your family. And if I didn't have a job, it meant that I have to take more loans to support my cost of living. And I thought about it and I said, as much as I would love this program, as much as this program would open doors for me, I need to do something that fits with my lifestyle and that's still being able to work and support my family while learning and, you know, being able to still have access to those opportunities. So you need to figure out what fits you best, what you're able to do, the sacrifices that you're willing to make. That was a sacrifice I was not willing to make, and I don't regret it. I don't regret it for one second. Yeah, so just, just think about as a parent, what's going to fit your lifestyle.

And I think it takes a lot of courage to pivot in that situation. It's really admirable to be able to say, listen, I don't think this is going to work. And something too that I see a lot of clients go through is, okay, I'm going to apply to a couple of different options, and I recommend that a lot. A client I was working with recently said, you know, my mom lives in Canada and a year from now, maybe I'll want to move there. I'm not sure, but let's apply to one because at least it opens up that option for me. And if I don't want, I don't want.

And.

And I think a lot of people feel like, no, I have to know exactly. And yes, it's important to have a why it's important to plan, but sometimes it's good to leave yourself some options, too.

Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you, Ellen.

Well, let's get into the Fast Pass Insights, the part of the podcast where we shoot you some rapid fire questions and just see what comes up at the top of your mind. Okay, so what's one word that you would use to describe being a student and a parent balancing act?

Is that one word or two words that counts?

And what's the best time management hack that you've used?

Time management, okay, this is literally. So I use JIRA for my personal life as well. I have a JIRA board, but the Jara board is more so for like my, my kind of like a midterm goals. More like, okay, what do I want to achieve this quarter? What do I want to achieve, you know, the next quarter? So it's, it's more so like a three, four months timeframe goals that I have on my jarboard, but I also use my notes app on my phone where every single day I write my to do list, the things that I want to get done that day and I put them in the order of priority. So the things that I need to get done, you know, first, the first few hours during the day at the top and the rest at the bottom. And anything that I don't get done this day, I carry it over. But the ability to just check the box. And then just at the end of the day before I go to bed, I just glance through my to do list and I'm like, damn, you did a lot of stuff today. Pat myself on the back and I'm like, tomorrow we're going to do more. So I just, you know, that's how I'm able to make my day worth it. Like, you know, I, I go to bed knowing that I've accomplished and it's little things like pay a bill or send an important email or do your pelvic floor exercise, little things like that. Like, that gives me that sense of accomplishment. And with managing my time, like I said, I use jira. I'm, I mean I, I'm a project manager. So time management is like, I was born with the skills, so obviously that's something that I do very easily.

In the Notes app, when you click it and it goes to the bottom.

It goes to the bottom. I keep that history because I can scroll months. And I'm like, you have done so much, girl. You're so busy.

And what's been the most unexpected challenge that you face of this balancing act?

Unexpected challenge is sometimes using my whole weekend to just complete a project. I mean, there's that I could be doing like resting. Yeah, I need to rest. And then, you know, doing chores and, you know, spending time with my children, which is very important to me. I've had to sacrifice some of that. But I'm getting to a point where we're starting to get our group back. You know, the program's going to end very soon, a couple of weeks. So I'm just happy. And I know I do have plans to do another one, but I'm going to give myself a pretty long break. Okay. I deserve it.

You learned it. Yeah, for sure. And what's one thing that you didn't expect to be hard, but that's been hard?

I can't say one thing in particular. I would say the whole process in general did come with its own dose of challenges, but nothing that I didn't necessarily prepare myself for. I knew what I was going into. I think the part that was hard was learning to deprioritize some other things. Like I said, I'm a go getter and I want to get things done, and I have to put some things on hold just so I can have room and capacity. That awakening that you can't do it all. Something's got to give and, you know, yeah, that's it. That, that, that awakening that. Yeah, you just. You got to pace yourself.

And what's the best way that it's helped you grow as a person?

I now know that I can do it. I've challenged myself, and I know that whatever I set my mind to do, I can do it. I'm more prepared for an online MBA program. I'm more prepared for more accelerated programs like this just because I have the experience. So it's also prepared. I mean, it's also, like I said, helped me navigate being able to communicate to my children that, hey, over the next couple of weeks, you know, prepare them for that schedule and prepare them to see me locked in and working and not necessarily being able to participate in their dollhouse games and things like that. When you're not communicating. Right. That's when the guilt comes in. Because this kid's. They know how to make you feel guilty. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, I don't want to see it. You know, but when I tell them, and I start telling them in advance, and then when it's Friday and I'm like, okay, what's mommy doing tomorrow? Mommy has homework. Do you know what you're gonna do tomorrow? I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. So I let them plan out their day, excluding me, so that I can focus. But the beauty of it is it's an online program, and I just, I still get to be present. Like I'm doing my project. They're literally right here playing with their dolls. So I still get to be present but not participating in what they're doing.

And what's your golden buzzer truth about doing a master's as a parent? Something no one tells you but makes all the difference.

I think a lot of people focus on, oh, it's challenging. Oh, it's, it's, you know, it's. It's hard. You're going to make sacrifices. It goes by really fast. I think that's what a lot of people need to know is I'm almost done with this program and I'm already considering taking another one because I'm like, so what am I going to be doing with my time? But it goes by really fast. So, you know, as much as possible, still try to enjoy it, enjoy the journey, because it's going to go by really fast.

That's good advice. Yeah, it's really fast. Coming to our final round, if you could give one piece of advice to another parent who's going back to school.

What would it be that advice would be? As a parent, know what fits your lifestyle. Prepare your children for what's coming. Gather your support system. Oh, my gosh. That's three advisors already.

Great, keep them coming.

Gather your support system. I'll stop there.

Awesome. Well, this has been so helpful. I feel like it's something that people don't talk enough about, especially for women wanting to advance in their careers, feeling like they have to make that trade off. And so it's really inspirational that you've been able to do all of these things. And thank you so much for sharing those insights with us.

Thanks for having me. Thanks. This is. This has been an honor and it's great seeing you, connecting with you. Like I said, very grateful for your involvement in my journey because, I mean, I think anyone who wants to advance in their career should have someone like you in their corner because I don't see how you're different from a career coach. I don't see how you are because the questions that you ask right in the process, it's more like finding yourself. Right. And it was very helpful. It's still helpful to me today. I still go back to those. I know ClickUp is closed, but I have access to all those documents. I still go back and look, look at it. It just reminds me of my why. And like I said, your team, Amazing as well. So thank you for having me, Ellen, of course.

Well, thank you so much. You're going to make me tear up. But it was a pleasure to work with you. And I'm so glad that those exercises are we're not a nuisance and are still helpful.

Still helpful. Till tomorrow. Like, if I'm going to apply for another mba, that's where I'm starting and calling you next.

Well, please do. And for any of you who might be applying as well, reach out to us on our website@EllenLawleys.com to learn more about working with us. And if you haven't checked out our other episode with Evie, please do that.

Go check it out.

It's a great episode. And hopefully we can have you back soon to hear about that new program that you're going to do.

I would be honored. Thank you.

Awesome. Thanks.