The Hidden Artists- Episode 11 with Dalen Michaels

Give it a little like 3, 2, 1, boom.

3, 2, 1, boom.

There you go.

There we go. All right, uh, I'm Natalie and this is Daylen. Um, okay, so this— welcome to the 11th episode of The Hidden Artist. Um, I, I mean, I wouldn't start off by saying more about Daylen because I think he's gonna have the honors to do that himself, and I'm sure he can do it way better than what I can. But basically, how I want to start out saying is the reason why I think Daylen is here and how I found Daylen was I went— I follow this Instagram page of USC Marshall, which is the business, which is a page that features a lot of business students of Marshall. And Daylen happened to be on it. Now, a lot of students happen to be on there. But one thing that inspired me to bring Daylen in here was because of his focus on giving back and making a difference in people's lives. Not just as an entrepreneur, which, um, shoot, I shouldn't have said that, but I think— but I'm sure Dylan will see that more about why he got into it. But yeah, more about as an entrepreneur, as a person, he focused more on giving back rather than, you know, which a lot of people get into entrepreneurship is to make money and, you know, for the fame. So, uh, without wasting much time or speaking more about that, I really appreciate you, Dylan, for being here. And so why don't you begin by speaking more about who you are Great.

Natalie, thank you for, thank you for the kind introduction. And Natalie reached out to me, sweetest comments ever, saying, hey, like, would love to have you on my podcast. And I'm saying, of course, you know, I'm an undergrad student right now. I'm in my senior year. So why not? That's kind of the way I look at these, these kind of conversations, right? And whether, whether you have 100 viewers or 1,000, 100,000, you know, I'm here to do it, like I said earlier, for fun. And I'm here. I'm just happy to have a conversation with you. So I'll go ahead and start about my background and whatnot. I was born and raised in Florida, Boca Raton, Florida. So I come from the East Coast where, where I really found that a lot of time people— there's Florida, if you don't know about it, a lot of people from New York come and retire there. So there's this sense of like a New York mentality of a really fast-paced life. So I kind of grew up with a really kind of fast-paced life. And you know, my dad's from New York as well, so I really understood the value of time. And I know we previously spoken about time, and one thing I've noticed when I've come to California is everyone's really laid back, everyone takes their time, everyone's super chill. And the way I see that is that's a great way to get ahead of everyone else, you know, because I'm so driven and I want, I want it that bad and I'm super hungry. So a little bit about me, I'm an entrepreneur, I think I could call myself an entrepreneur, I don't really know, I don't have a any metrics of success yet at being an entrepreneur besides starting multiple businesses and having them all fail. But I think the most important thing about entrepreneurship is learning, and I've definitely had my fair share of learning. And now one thing I've been learning about entrepreneurship is the importance of giving back. But not only the importance, some of the beauty of giving back, if that makes sense. So last week I actually got emailed by a club called Lemonade. Have you ever heard of it?

I did.

Yeah, Lemonade is wonderful. So I was asked to be one of the mentors there teaching entrepreneurship, and that was the most fun hour of my month for sure. You know, I was sitting here in an elementary school with 5th graders, and the goal is to create a lemonade stand. And I'm sitting there and they were telling me what they did last year. Oh, we put boba in the lemonade. And I'm like, wow, like you guys are— what's called innovating. And I'm like, this is so awesome. You know, you guys are 10, 12 years old and you're already thinking of business concepts. So I'm like, hey, like, you know, the group over there, they know you put boba in the lemonade, so they're going to do the same thing. So now you got to think of the next step. And they're like fascinated by this idea. And I think, you know, for me, that kind of feeling of giving back I don't know if I ever made an impact on them. I'm going back next week, so I'm super excited about that. And if anyone from USC is listening, highly suggest joining this club if you're in entrepreneurship at all. You actually learn just as much as the kids there because they're asking you— I got asked from a 12-year-old kid, what is the value of money?

Wow.

I don't know how to answer that, you know, but I tried my best. So I really try to, really try to give that, you know, that student kind of an understanding of what the value of money is. But Kind of sticking to the point, you know, I felt so good giving back and I can't wait, I can't wait to go back next week.

That really sounds amazing. I mean, the fact that you get to mentor people at this, at this point in your life is so big. I mean, so what, I mean, you spoke about giving back a lot and something that inspired me. So when was the first time where you realized that this was what you wanted to focus as a human being, as an entrepreneur?

To give back?

Yes.

I think what I've realized is my purpose in life— I do a lot of deep thinking and I'll sit there with a notebook, no music, no, just my own thoughts and I'll write. And I believe my purpose in life is to enrich and add value to other people's lives through entrepreneurship, right? So to create a product that actually helps other people out. And I think mostly this comes from my father. So my father's in the hair regrowth business. So he doesn't sell a product that regrows hair. He sells a product that gives people the confidence back that they can live a fulfilling life. So although they're the same and they're in the same company, that is the true purpose he created this product. So growing up with, you know, under kind of his household and whatnot, seeing, you know, the purpose of work is to help other people, and he really embodied it by, you know, hiring people, you know, providing for other people's families, giving bonuses at the end of the year. I really saw all of this and was touched, and I understand that that is exactly what I want to do with my life as well.

I really love that approach because I feel like one of the main reasons why I connected with you is because the reason why I started this and the reason why I even am here studying the course I'm studying at USC is because of my purpose to make a difference in people's life. I like how you touched upon it very specifically through entrepreneurship. So A, do you think that it was because of your dad that you got into entrepreneurship? And B, when was it that you realized it and how do you go about it?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think just growing up, it was always, hey, your purpose is to help other people. And, you know, I think, you know, from the earliest ages, I remember being super young. I don't even know, like, these are like early core memories, right? And like, there would be someone performing in the street, like a magician, or I don't even remember. And my dad would slip me $5, go put it in the bucket, you know, go put it in their bucket. And I would go and give it. And I would sit there and look at their reaction and there was that sense of reaction of, okay, I just gave something. I didn't understand what I gave, but the reaction in that person's face really touched me. And I was like, just from a super early age, I was like, wow, this is awesome. Like, I really like doing that. And you know, it was always about kind of spreading this positivity. And on the side of entrepreneurship, right? I think where I first realized I wanted to do entrepreneurship, and it ties into Lemonade Club, why I did that actually, was when I was in high school, I was a freshman going into sophomore year, I joined a club called the YEA, which is the Young Entrepreneurship Academy, back at home in Florida. And it's a competition that is 8 weeks, they teach you how to build a business, you come in, you make an idea, you build a business, and then you pitch. In front of like the whole Chamber of Commerce in the city. So it was like 500 people and I'm, you know, 14, 15 years old. I have no business pitching in front of 500 people. But I think that was such a core, you know, point in my journey of entrepreneurship that I was like, okay, like I learned the fundamentals, but then I actually went and did it. And I think, you know, I went into this competition, you know, I think it was a class of like 30 or so kids. So everyone pitched. And I went in and I had no thought that I would win, right? I didn't think I was going to get first place. I didn't understand what I was doing. And I worked really hard and, you know, they taught me and eventually I got first place in the pitch competition. And when I realized I had won, I didn't understand. And like the day after it hit me, like I couldn't believe it. I was like, I won this? Like I was the best at pitching? It didn't resonate to me. And then I realized like the reason I won is because I have this sense of entrepreneurship from my father and my mother who's also a life coach. So she has her own service, if you will. So I think it was that feeling of winning that I was like, okay, I am meant to do this, right? And it's funny, the purpose of my business was a fishing knot tool. So I had a buddy help me design a 3D-printed model. And we were 14, 15. I couldn't believe we were even doing this. But we designed a model that helped tie fishing knots quicker. And the whole purpose, the reason I did that was because I would go fishing with my grandpa. And my grandpa was hard at— he couldn't really see that well. And he would sit there with his glasses like trying to— tie the knot and he would just give up. He's like, here, please, please tie it for me. Right? And I was like, what if I just make a product that he can tie the knot quicker without my help? So it was always like about help, you know, in this case was helping my, my grandpa. But, you know, I think tying it all back into giving back to the community, like I want to, even if it's the slightest impact, I would love to be that moment of how I had of winning. For someone else, for the next generation, because I know how much that impacted me and it's made me crazy, you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm in love with entrepreneurship, like just the idea of creating and meeting people and combining, combining different ideas and solving problems. I love it. And if I can make, even as a, you know, 21-year-old college student, if I can make a slight impact on like, you know, a 12-year-old you know, in 5th grade who can be the next, you know, who knows? And I think that, that's really touching to me.

I love how you said that because, I mean, for you, entrepreneurship is more about solving problems and about helping other people, which I feel is going to inspire so many people out there. Because, um, at the end of the day, when you see a smile on other person's face, yeah, yeah. When you don't feel like you can keep going, I feel it's one thing that keeps you, you know, tied up in that space, be like, okay, I've got to keep going for that. So, so when you— so now you realize that entrepreneurship is something which works for you, and you realize that this is something you are good at, and this is something that you can do. So how do you go about, um, you know, taking the next steps?

Yeah, well, now it's the— now it's the fun of actually proving yourself, right? I haven't proved anything. And, you know, some people will be like, wow, you've started so many businesses. Like, you know, you're on the page of Marshall. But to me, I haven't even like gotten started. That's how I feel. Right. And I'm just excited about the journey. You know, I think, I think I, I love looking at opportunities and saying, wow, like, like this could be the next— I don't know, this could be the next billion-dollar sleep device. That's something I've been working on. I love I love sleep and I understand that when I get less sleep, it affects my mood tremendously. And, you know, one, you know, over half the whole global population suffers from insufficient sleep. So in my eyes, you know, I've heard a quote, you know, you want to make a billion dollars, help a billion people, right? But more importantly, I want to help a billion people. I want to create a legacy that is, wow, you know, this kid from Florida who's just kind of who has been just like hustling, bootstrapping, it just created something that has helped humanity move forward. So I think that is like the most awe-inspiring kind of goal, um, in my life.

Got it. So was that, was that desire to give back and the feeling of seeing people be happy that kept, keeps you going all the time and keeps you Because I, I mean, from what you told me before, you literally got back from Florida and you've been— you, you have a class and you had a class. Yeah, I mean, you had a class. My bad, um, it's the nerves talking. But you had a class and you've been hustling. What— I mean, you've been hustling all day long. You could literally be chilling just like all the people in California are. And I know you get that hustle from because you've had people in New York, but what keeps you going? What is it that you Why is it that you're just going out and about and doing all these things?

That's a good question. I just think we are all here on Earth one time, you know. I value time extreme, like extreme amount, right, as we've talked about before. I just think we are all here on Earth for a purpose, whether people realize it or not. And for me, I I've kind of targeted my purpose and now I just, I don't know why, but I'm chasing it, right? I'm chasing it. I want to make as much of an impact as I can and I know that the fun in it is the journey of it, right? I've already been having a blast, right? At face value, you know, I could tell you how stressed I am with all the problems and whatnot. But on the other side, I could be like, hey, but I'm learning. Like, you know what I mean? I'm building the fundamental steps. To being this entrepreneur that I so aspire to be, right? And I don't even know what that's gonna look like, you know, in 10 years, but I can tell you that, you know, with the hustle and the constant learning, like, I'll get there eventually. I might be 70 years old before I get there, you know what I mean? But I know in my life, because I'm hustling so hard, like, I will get there. And I think that's the excitement of of fulfilling the purpose that gets me to keep hustling and gets me to wake up in the morning.

So I'm, uh, how do you, how do you stay patient? Because I feel like, especially for someone who comes from this generation, like, you want things. Yeah, you want things now. And I'm sure everybody who's listening can resonate with it. It's like, how do you, how do you stay patient and focus on the long-term vision, which of course I want you to speak more about, and of course your startup as well. Sure. How do you focus on the long-term vision without being misguided or just like stuck on the nitty-gritty and the short-term weird things?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think patience is built in personalities, right? So it's funny, you know, when you look at, you know, my dad, super impatient. You know, he doesn't like to wait at all. And me, on the other hand, I think just growing up, kind of seeing the impatience, but also having, for example, fishing, right? I tie it, I tie a lot of my stuff to just like the early, early lifestyle I had. You know, I never played video games. I never played, I never watched movies when I was young. It was really weird. Like, people are asking me, oh, you ever seen like Spider-Man? I don't think I ever watched Spider-Man. I don't think I've ever watched like movies, like Marvel movies, never watched Star Wars, whatever. I spent my time outside fishing or, you know, catching, I don't know, like lizards and stuff. I was just outdoors all the time. And I think nature has this side of peace and patience in itself that I was just, I've just kind of grown up and learned. So like when you go fishing, right, the first cast is never gonna, you're never gonna catch it. Catch a fish on the first cast. I don't want to say never, but most likely not. And you have to sit there and you cast over and over again, you know, maybe in different spots, trying it in different ways, right? And I kind of see that the same way through entrepreneurship. Like I said, like eventually I'll catch something, you know, whether I'm 70 years old and I have my, finally my business, right? Or, you know, or if it'll happen next month, I don't know, but I'll sit there and I'll keep casting. And because I've learned that the fish might bite on what you think is the last catch, you know what I mean? So I've just, through that kind of nature and growing up outside, like definitely understood a sense of patience in that regard.

I mean, I know for sure when I hear you say it that you will be successful. I don't know when that'll happen, but I believe in you and I'm sure everybody's listening. I'm sure everybody who's listening can see that passion that you have and that ability to be patient and that you will eventually get there. And I'm hoping and praying that one day that happens. I mean, I'm sure it will soon.

I don't know when. I hope sooner than later, but hey, if it's 70— if I'm 70 years old and I finally get to say, look, I helped a billion people out, I will be so happy. But I think more importantly is like, because that's my goal already, I'm already currently so happy. That makes sense, right? To me, that goal in my head has been achieved and I'm working towards it, right? So when I said, hey, you know, I want to be— my goals later in life, you know, in my later ages, I really would love to be like a philanthropist, right? I look at what Bill Gates does in Africa and I would love to be that type of person making impact on so many people. And I think, you know, because I've already established and distinguished this precise goal of philanthropy, I'm happy because I know I'm working towards it, you know, like I'm— and every day I wake up and I say, you know, today's the best day ever, right? And why would you say that, right? Like, what about when you got into USC? Wasn't that the best day ever? At the time when I got in, sure, that was the best day ever. But now that's in the past, right? It's not, it doesn't exist anymore. The only thing we have is today, and what we do today will create the future. But you don't know what the future is going to look like. All you know is what is today and what is happening today, right? And so I live very present. I live very present, or at least I like to think so. I practice meditation every single morning. You know, I try to practice mindfulness, right? Instead of everyone you'll see walking outside on the way to class, everyone's got headphones in talking on the phone and whatnot. You know, sometimes I'll put headphones in so I don't look weird, but I'm not playing any music and I'm looking around and really soaking things in, right? Looking at the buildings, looking at the brick, almost feeling my own breath. So I'm very present in my day-to-day activities and I think that helps a lot with patience and also just elevated mood.

Throughout my days and being present, like you said. Yeah, I mean, I resonate with what you said because you never played video games. Yeah. And did not watch a lot of movies. I think that's me. I, I mean, it's only now, probably during COVID that I actually began watching movies more than I did before. But I really like how you say that you are more focused, more present, and more, um, you know, you just—

absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, you just want to do things in the future? Is that also what inspired Out the Back, the nature?

Yeah, yeah, I think Out the Back was, it was a funny way that it started, you know, I was hungry for something to work on, right? So if you get to know kind of my personality, this idea of working towards something, whether I don't know what it is, but like that idea of like, hey, I want to be this entrepreneur, I was hungry to work with on something, you know, I had just given up my other business, I had an influencer marketing agency, so I was connecting influencers with brands. I didn't really like it as much, but I learned so much about influencers, right? And then, you know, I ended up scrapping the business idea, and then I moved forward, and I was just hungry to start something. And so I met my roommate Malachi, and then we decided, hey, like, let's start a business. We both love surfing. He's got an insane sense of style, you know. You'll see him walking around campus and you're and you're like, man, this guy's dripped out, you know, he looks swaggy as can be, you know, and I was always attracted to like the way he was dressing and styling, you know, he was like, hey, like we gotta improve your style, he would tell me to buy some stuff and then I would wear it and I'd be like, wow, like, you know, I feel like I'm dressing a lot better. So he had the sense of style, I had the sense of business, so we combined and he's a really awesome kind of, you know, he's applying for jobs in product management, right, so he really, is super organized and, and, and very disciplined, and I was very disorganized and kind of just like easygoing, you know. And I think the two of us were very much a yin and yang, and that's why we were really, really great partners, you know, starting it off. So the inspiration behind it was this kind of partnership and also the love of outdoors, you know. It started as, hey, like, let's be a local type of community and really focus on throwing events and really building like a cult-like type of following that these, you know, 100 people that come to our events that they'll always buy our products and we can always provide them these, you know, events. We found out that events are really hard to throw, really painful logistics. I mean, throwing a 150-person party at UCLA where you don't even go, you know, it's insane. It's an insane logistical kind of nightmare, if you will. And I think since then it's pivoted to, hey, like, you know, nature is a beautiful way for people to connect deeper relationships, create deeper relationships. So for example, you know, I don't know if you've ever gone on a hike with a friend, but I'm sure you guys talk about the most, you know, deep type of stuff. So what we found is that, you know, adventures in nature bring bring people closer together. So that is what our mission is, you know, using nature and providing clothes that say, hey, you know, I go out the back, I am building deeper connections with my friends. And we like to think that the clothing looks good as well.

So, um, I've seen it, it looks— it definitely looks amazing.

Thank you.

I, I mean, I love the fact that you started out with like focusing more on going outdoors because I feel like in this day and age technology and our phones, we're so much more stuck just sitting there and not appreciating the beauty. Um, so I think it's a very beautiful mission, and I'm glad and grateful that you started it out. And of course it looks beautiful, so you know, why not, you know, just buy things?

Sure.

So, um, how do you— how do you— so was it daunting for you to realize that? Because I mean, I know that you said you started influencer which I'm sure would have been of great use to you because obviously you need influencers to promote your brand. But how do you, like, how do you start off this whole process of venturing into something that you've never done before, which is merchandising?

And yeah, yeah, I have zero experience in merchandising, and I still think I have zero experience in it. You know, when you start a business, you don't know what you don't know, and you don't realize that you don't know anything at all. You have to start from scratch. And, you know, luckily USC has been a wonderful resource and just providing me amazing people to talk with and just business classes that I've been learning kind of the whole process of it, right? And I think, I think, you know, that's where I become— I'm very different from other people. Like, I love that sense of not knowing what's going on. I love that sense of like, hey, like, we just put $4,000 into to this event, like what's going to happen? I love it, you know what I mean? I'm like, let's go, you know, and obviously we've gotten burned and lost money, but the whole thing is that we're constantly learning and, you know, making it a little bit better and better. And, you know, hey, like we've realized that, you know, in-person events are not as worth as— not worth it as much as building a really awesome online website, right? And so when we built the online website, I'm saying, wow, I can I can reach people globally now. You know, we've gotten orders from Australia, Switzerland, Canada, you know, Germany. And to me, I couldn't fathom it that, you know, our idea, what was started like a year ago, someone's wearing our hat in Germany. Like, what does that— how does that even make sense? Exactly. But that would have never happened if I didn't take take a gamble and launch the website, right? And I wouldn't have realized that if I didn't take a gamble and throw the first party, you know what I mean? So I think you're always learning, right? You're always learning. And we've had some epic failures, you know what I mean? We made this one event and it was so hyped. It was like summer just went away. Everyone's been following the account. We've been growing and growing the account all summer. And we were like, we're gonna have an Out the Back back-to-school drop. And we picked our date, we had all the new merch, it was gonna be amazing. We had 3 bands and it started raining on the day. And we were like, oh my God, we had to cancel the event. And that was one of the hardest decisions I ever had to make because we were expecting anywhere from 100 to 300 people to come. And the moment you kind of have to reschedule, you're gonna lose people for sure. You know what I mean? That's just the sign of, the side of rescheduling is, is you're just gonna lose, you're gonna lose a kind of big chunk of new customers that were kind of expecting to come. And it was funny because even though it was still raining, we had like 10, 15 people still come and be like, what happened? Because they didn't see that it got canceled. Crazy, really crazy. So to me, It was really, really hard to make that decision, but you know, that was a failure and I kind of realized like, hey, maybe we should look at the weather if we're going to throw an event. But yeah, I think we did a wonderful job marketing. We ran a promotion that was like, hey, get a free drink if you repost us on Instagram. And oh my God, you know, talk about enticing, you know, some college students to come to your event free drinks, oh my goodness, we had like 130 shares and our Instagram grew just from, you know, we were small at that time, like 400 followers to like 600, you know, just from this event. And you know, to us that was worth it, but we did lose a lot of people at the next event and then the event was not profitable. So kind of learned a lot through that mistake.

How do you still keep going? Going despite— I mean, it's— I love how you said that it's funny instead of being like, you know, being held back by it and being like, okay, this is a failure, you know. I know entrepreneurship is a lonely journey and it's so daunting. Um, so how do you— how do you keep going despite of all the failures that you've had and still believe in your vision and still keep going despite of giving up on all the fun and everything that a college student should be or could be having at that point?

That's definitely a great question, and you're not kidding by it's like a lonely, you know, hard journey. Like, I don't even think many of my friends know, but I'm up at 6 in the morning almost every single day, and that's a wonderful time for me to work because no one in college is up that early, right? And I don't really get bothered on my phone, and I kind of like that, and I'm just able to lock in and really focus on myself. So it's very lonely and you know those mornings are awesome but I think you know that idea of again going back to that kind of that purpose of like I want to be that entrepreneur even if I'm 70 years old, right? I want to be that person helping people, right? So the way I look at Out the Back right now is it's a wonderful college fun project, right? I get to meet people, I'm making clothes, I'm constantly meeting people. It's awesome, right? I love that. And it's honestly a great excuse being in the Marshall School of Business when you have a business. You're like, hey, like, could you come help me out on this business? You're getting so many more people helping you out and whatnot. And I think that's definitely what keeps me going is that idea of like I'm ever so sculpting myself to be that entrepreneur that I want to be, right? I don't know, you know, I kind of imagine it like kind of rock sculpting, right? I don't know what it looks like, but I'm just kind of like hammering the chisel and taking chunks off and like learning from, you know, the mistakes. And what I think is going to happen over time is that sculpture is going to get smoothed out. And then, you know, in 10, 20 years, hopefully I'll be that entrepreneur that I so aspire to be. Maybe sooner, honestly. It's really luck though. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, you know, luck is the intersection where opportunity meets hard work, right? So if you constantly work hard, you'll find an opportunity. And that's kind of the way I've been seeing it, right? Like, you know, I've been working really hard and then influencers will come on board. There's the opportunity. Boom, collaborate, grow, right? You never know, like I might go walk outside and bump into the guy who started Billabong and he'll be like, wow, like "Let me, you know, let me buy your company." I don't know, I'm kind of making stuff up right now, but you just don't know. You never know. Yeah, it's that type of hard work that if you're constantly working hard, you know, innovating, making new products, you know, eventually opportunity will come, and, you know, I guess that's the definition of luck.

I feel you. I mean, I love how you said that because you walk into life with a positive approach, thinking that anything might happen instead of being restricted by the things that are exactly in front of you. You. I feel like that's exactly why I keep going with this and keep going just in life in general, because I don't know who's watching. I mean, but you never know when sometimes it might just end up being watched by someone. Sure, it was inspiring out there. Um, but like, I mean, I know you said that you've got a purpose that keeps inspiring you, but it's hard to keep reminding yourself that purpose time and time again, especially when things things don't go your way, and I know that you said you focus on the long-term vision, but for those people out there who are struggling and who lose motivation to wake up in the morning and do it, how do you, how do you keep going? What keeps you going? What is it that motivates you and keeps you going in spite of how hard and stressful it is?

Yeah, that's, that's definitely tough. I mean, burnout, burnout is definitely evident. And don't get me wrong, I think like January and February I was like, I'm quitting, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm only one person, I'm taking on the roles of at least 5 to 6 people, I can't do this anymore. And you know, just keep waking up and be like, oh, you know what, like, we just got another follower, oh, we just got an order, you know. Like, people are DMing the Instagram saying, hey, like, when are you gonna make new clothes? So I think I think, you know, there is a time where you have to say, "All right, it's time to give up and like go work on something else." But I would say, you know, Phil Knight says, you know, sometimes you're a genius if you give up on a certain project and switch and pivot to something else, but don't ever stop, right? I know what my mission is and I'm not going to stop by any means until I get there, right? Because I feel like it's my life's purpose. And so I think for people that are giving up or people that are struggling, like, You've got to take a hard look at yourself in the mirror. Take your notebook, take your pen and write, "What is my purpose?" Like, "Why am I doing this? Why did I start this?" Right? And sometimes you'll find that, hey, you're not doing it for the right reasons, right? You're not— you're doing it to make money, right? Or you're doing it for fame when really you should be focused on your customer and adding value to them. So I think being self-critical and being self-aware is super important and I'm constantly reevaluating myself all the time, you know. I set out monthly goals, right, and I'm constantly trying to perfect myself. I'm by no means perfect, you know, you can ask any of my friends, but I'm constantly working and iterating to make myself better and that takes a lot of self-criticism, but not in a harsh way. I'm never like, oh, I'm stupid, I shouldn't have done that. It's more of like, what could I have done better? You know? And then learning from the mistake and really learning it though, like keeping it with you. Like, okay, like you've really got to check the weather on the next drop. You know what I mean? Like I'm never, I promise you guys, if you go to an Out the Back event anytime soon, I promise you I check the weather. Promise you that.

I can tell that you do. Yeah. So, I mean, I, I mean, yeah, it's, I, I am so inspired by listening to you say this. I mean, I don't know how many times have I said this, but you inspire me so much.

Thank you. I really, it really means a lot and it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure being on your podcast.

No, I really appreciate it. And I'm sure everyone out there who's listening is gonna gain so much value and be inspired by everything you've seen.

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully I provided some value for the listeners.

You, I mean, you, I mean, of course for you it's like you see yourself doing more, so right now you don't see how great you are already, but of course you cannot settle for what you have. So, so you said that you keep going. Um, A, uh, do you have any morning routine that you follow? And B, how do you keep going and working on all of this aside from school and aside from just like life in general?

Sure, yeah, so I definitely have a vigorous morning routine, and sometimes people will look at it and be like, wow, you are kind of a nut job. So I'll wake up and the first thing I do is meditate, you know, anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes, and I use this time to really balance myself, you know, forget about the day past, right? Sometimes you'll have bad days, and I really focus on this is a new day, new opportunity, fresh slate, right? And this is the only thing that matters to me, so Every single morning, meditation, been practicing it for 2 years now. It definitely helps a lot with the mental. And then I'll typically, you know, journal a little bit, or, you know, I journaled the night prior. You know, talk about why today's gonna be the best day ever. That's what I write about. Today's gonna be the best day ever because X, Y, and Z. And I look, I write things that I look forward to, and I never really write negative things in my, you know, in my journal. But then definitely recommend cold showers, right? The, you know, our apartment here at USC has like such a cold faucet, so it is, you know, at 6 in the morning, 6:30 in the morning, when you get in that cold shower, you are freezing, right? And that just electrifies you, wakes you up, and, you know, science, I believe studies have proven that, you know, cold shower increases brown body fat, which is really one of the healthiest body fats you can have. And by the way, I'm no doctor, I cannot be quoting the stuff.

I study stem cells, I know about it.

Yeah, so you understand, and I know it increases dopamine, so it's a great way to start the day.

Yeah, I mean, I know of the fact, but I've never done it, so you inspire me because you do it despite not actually knowing much about the science of it, but I know it and I'm not doing it. But anyways.

It's hard. It's really hard. I think it's funny because I always tell myself this is the first battle of the day. If I can win it, I can win any battle. And I'll sit there and I won't turn the shower on. I'll just stare at it. And I'll be like, nope, I'm not losing. I'm not losing. Then I'll turn it on and just a minute, 2 minutes, and then you're done. And then it's like, wow, OK, I feel great. I won the first battle of the day. Let's, let's go conquer the world, you know, let's, let's get after it. Yeah.

What differentiates you and me is that I've done it for a few days and then I'm like, I cannot do it anymore. Why am I doing it? But yeah. So, okay. How do you keep working on this despite your school? I mean, alongside school, is that just, do you think your morning routine is what helps you with that?

I think, um, it's, it's all balanced, right? So for example, today I'm full of class, so I didn't get to work on OTB as much, right? But it really just depends on time management, right? I'm very good at time managing. On Sundays, I schedule out my whole week. I figure out what's due, what do I need to do, how much time it's gonna take me, and I'm very, you know, diligent in this process. And, you know, I have like a to-do list, right? School and work. School, I'll have, you know, whatever, homework assignments and stuff. And, you know, I try to get ahead of it. But yeah, as a senior now, it's kind of like tough to like really put a lot of attention and time into it. But then, you know, the work side of stuff, I definitely put a lot of effort. I wanted to say, I think it's been an absolute pleasure. Yeah, I just wanted to thank anyone listening.

Thank you so much for tuning in.