003 - How to Start Pure Desire at Your Church

Foreign.

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Hey, there.

And our guest today is the international Men's Group's coordinator for Pure Desire, Rich Moore. Rich, how you doing?

Great. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, so today we're going to lean in on Rich's expertise and experience with Pure Desire and how to really start or implement it into your church. So let's get going with the first question.

Well, Rich, I know that you've had a long history with Pure Desire. In fact, you were a part of the ministry before. Many people listening to this podcast probably even knew that it existed. So tell us a little bit about your experience. How did you come to be part of the ministry? And then more specifically, tell us about your role here as the men's group coordinator. What does that mean? What do you do as a part of the staff here?

Yeah, you know, my story started when I was young, just like most men started very young, at the height of my addiction, probably about 12 to 21. And then right about that time, really got involved with Pure Desire after some consequences came forward. And, you know, my first group, there's about 10 guys, and I was the only one that decided to tell the whole story in that group, and it kind of blew everybody away. And since then, 20 years later, I'm still doing groups. And in that 20 years, I've probably been leading groups for 18 of those 20. And currently I've been on staff now here at pure desire for two years, and with the international groups coordinator, really overseeing 15 regional leaders that we have placed throughout the country that help us oversee groups all over the country. And really, it's just been a blessing because I've had the opportunity to speak with thousands of men over the over 20 years from all over the world. And, you know, I just love what I do. And I think, you know, we're just at the beginning stages of what we can do.

And you wrote your experiences in a book for those that might not be familiar with it. What's the name of that book?

Yeah, so wrote a book in 2011 called the Silent Battle, and it's just a short, short story of my. My history. And it's really for those guys that feel that there's no hope, that they can't. That they can't make it, and especially for those guys that have legal issues and are incarcerated, really works well for those guys because it really shows them that they can get through it.

Yeah. For those that haven't read your story, I would just highly recommend it because it's amazing to see and hear the different ways that God showed up in your life, whether it was something very practical and physical like in the courtroom and what happened in your story there, or in just your personal the soul side of how he delivered you. So I'd highly recommend people checking out that book.

And if you haven't talked to Rich, Rich is a great guy to talk to just about the ministry. I mean, when I was leading groups, when I was starting it at my church, you were the guy for me. I mean, go to guy. So with that, we just were excited to lean in more on your experience as a groups leader. So we have a lot of people that are probably listening to the podcast who are excited about Pure Desire and what the ministry really has to offer, but really don't know how to start that conversation. So if someone wants to start the conversation on sexual addiction and even implement Pure Desire to their church, how do they get that conversation started?

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, we get that asked, you know, if not daily, a couple times a week. And you know, it usually starts with somebody in the church that is struggling. They're going to their pastor and the pastor says, well, we don't have anything. Do you want to start it? And then that's sometimes how it happens, how they get it started. So we'll walk somebody through. First we want them to get in a group. So we're going to find them a group to get plugged into and then eventually help that church to develop the ministry where they're training some leaders, where we can come in and actually work with those leaders and then help them start a successful group and do it the right way, you know, not do it, start it with no leaders. We want them to be set up for success right out the gate.

Absolutely.

Well, and something we also recommend is that people have the opportunity to be exposed to Pure Desire's approach and the material. By coming to one of our universities, we find that many churches that are in that exploration stage of how do we do this, how does it work? They'll come to the two day training and that really is aimed at equipping them and giving them the tools to go back and start the ministry. So you can find that on our website just to look at if there might Be an event in your area. But for a lot of people, there aren't that opportunity to go to an event because they're maybe too far away or there's none coming up soon. And so what you're talking about, Rich, really is a key to have the conversations with us and let us coach you, mentor you. So once that conversation has started, you know, church has started to open the door, and hopefully the staff at some level is on board or is a part of the process. What role do you play in helping churches get the Pure Desire groups going?

At that point, I will walk them through the development of the ministry in the church and just some basic steps of what to do, what not to do, talk to them about. I'll go over group guidelines, some best practices. I'll walk them through the first group, what that looks like, when they're training their leaders. And once they have a leadership core developed and ready to go, Ashley and myself will set up a meeting with both the men's and women's leaders and really get them all on the same page. So when they do finally launch through the Conqueror series and then the women's material, they're going to launch successfully right out the gate. And our goal in those meetings are to make sure that they are prepared and have all questions answered before they start their groups.

Yeah. So that leadership structure, though, you kind of touched on, you need to have some sort of leadership structure as you're bringing pure desire to your church. So what kind of structure needs to be put in place? And again, you talked about development. What kind of development can we offer those leaders?

Yeah, the development piece is kind of twofold. One, they're already going to have a small group guidelines, small group structure from their church. So how they run groups are going to be. They're going to have the church guidelines, and then we'll come in alongside that. Because Pure Desire is a different ministry than a typical ministry that they have in the church. We'll set. We'll come with our guidelines, and then we try to match them up because they have to be accountable to the church, but they also have to stick to the model that we have for groups because they work. So that way we just tell them the ins and outs of how to run a group and the importance of sticking to the model and following the guidelines and following the best practices. And usually those will pretty much line up with the church's small group guidelines themselves. So. Pretty close.

Yeah. I think what you just mentioned, Rich, is a huge key to effective ministries or churches that are really running groups. Well, is that they understand and embrace. These are their groups. I know many other ministries have groups and they kind of consider them. Well, that's, you know, they're not really our groups, they're accountable to that ministry or. But really we want to empower the church to start their own groups because the flow of leadership, the flow of accountability, the flow of decision making really needs to happen at the local level. So we're here to be a support, a guide, a friend in the process to answer a lot of the hard questions, the unique situations that come up. But when it comes to leadership of the group, they need to be owned by the local church. And when that happens, it is just amazing to see how it gives the group permission to flourish. Because it also underscores the need to help men and women in the church see that this isn't a shameful thing to be a part of. And if it's not embraced by the local church and the leadership, there is still that question of is our leadership really on board with this? Is it okay to go to this group? But when the church is able to say, we're establishing this ministry, these groups are being run by our leaders and we're embracing it, it makes a huge difference for the men and women that need to go.

Yeah.

And I think too sometimes when you have that outside organization that's a part like that, it can almost be a form of isolation. You're not letting people in your own community know who you are and know your struggle. And so that's another piece to why we really have churches doing this ministry in their church. They're the ones who are leading this. We just act as support, really, because we need people to be known and we need to make sure that all our junk is out there because then that's how we, we battle that. That's how we battle addiction.

Yeah. So, Rich, maybe someone's listening to this and it's sounding good. They're realizing, okay, some steps I need to take. We need to start the conversation with staff. We need to get them on board. We need to have conversations with yourself to be coached up, start to train some leaders. But then they're saying, what do we actually start with? What group should a church look at to get these rolling in their church?

Yeah, the best one, we're going to start off with a conquer series and use that as an orientation, a five week orientation.

Now, some people listening might actually not know what the conqueror series is. We hope they do. But some might. You just use the term like, what is that? So tell a little bit more. What is the Conqueror series for those that aren't familiar with it?

Yeah. So the Conqueror series is a five disc set that's a battle plan for purity. And it walks you through the different stages and really an orientation and it touches on certain topics through the series that really gets you prepared for the next step, which is the seven Pillars of Free Freedom. And it really will guide them and give them enough information for guys that will say, wow, I really do have a problem. Now what do I do from there? Yeah.

One of the things I love about the Conquest series is it gives you that accessibility for men in your church. Because this is a huge hurdle to actually be willing to face this behavior in your life, to say, I want to change it. And the approach that we have because we're actually heading helping someone change the way their brain functions and change their life. It's a long process. But when a guy's at the front end, he's stuck in denial and rationalization and minimizing saying, oh, it's not that big of a deal. And so if you come out and offer them what's about a nine or ten month group as they walk through seven pillars of freedom, I think a lot of men, just out of the sheer time commitment, say, oh, I don't need that. But with the Conquer series being shorter, you're able to invite all the men in the church to watch it. And it's general enough that everyone will learn from it, everyone will get something out of it, whether it's for themselves or for their sons or for a friend that they're trying to help. And then those that do have a struggle are able to identify the need to be in an ongoing group for change. And it's been awesome to watch how that material has opened the door in so many churches. And I know, Rich, you've gotten to see that a lot in your role as well.

So let me ask another question then on Conquer, because if you. If, as Nick said, it's going to be difficult to get guys in the front door for that group, what are some tips that you might have for people inviting guys into the Conquer series?

Well, the best thing to get guys into a Conquer series is really word of mouth. For one, what we see is guys that have gone through Conquer series, gone through seven pillars, and their buddies see that their marriage has changed and their behaviors have changed, they're not hanging out with them anymore. And then they say, hey, what's different? That's the difference. So then they say, well, you need to come to this group, because they know their buddies are having problems. So we see a lot of that. You know, guys are having their friends come because they know that their friends are struggling. That's one way. And then really promoting it within the church. You know, when you have a pastor that can buy in, that will buy into Pure Desire Ministries and really embrace the ministry and where he can talk about it from the pulpit, the staff's on board. You got the head pastors talking about it, and now you're changing the culture of the people that are coming to church. And then you show the Conqueror promo video. You know, now you're gonna have guys start coming forward that way.

Yeah. Well, Nick, you. You led Peer Desire in your church as the senior pastor. What did that look like for you, starting that conversation and getting the conquer groups going?

One of the unique things in our story was that it was my story also. And since I had walked through a group personally at another church, then I was able to bring that side of it. And that's actually an incredibly effective thing. When a pastor is willing to own their own issues and say, I've experienced some freedom and healing. So if a pastor has that in their story, I encourage them not to run from it, but to think about, how could I get to a place in my own journey that I'm comfortable sharing that with my congregation? But I know there are many other pastors that would simply say, well, this wasn't my struggle. Do I just have to be uninvolved? And I'd say, absolutely not. That you are a crucial piece in the success of the launch of the ministry, because men and women are really feeling that shame of. Is this okay to acknowledge I struggle with. This feels like the taboo topic in the church, that I can struggle with an eating disorder or even alcoholism. And if I'm willing to face it, the church kind of stands up and applauds. But I feel like if I stand up and say I'm struggling with pornography or sexual sin or I've had an affair, we feel like we'll be blacklisted and tossed out on the street. And so when a lead pastor or those that are in senior leadership at a church are the ones to stand up and say, we want to help, and no matter where you've been and what you've done, there's grace and there's forgiveness, and more importantly, there's a path to freedom, and we want. We earn you. To take it is just. I can't overestimate how Important, that is for the senior leader to say to his people, well, and we would say.

Do not put a sign up sheet out in the foyer and say, hey, all sex addicts go out and sign up for this Conquer series. Another way that worked for me when I was at the church before was I would invite dads who had kids who were teenagers and just say, hey, do you want to learn more about purity? Do you want to learn more about how to have conversations with your kids about pornography and sexual addiction? And really, guys would end up coming into the group and realizing, wow, I've got a problem. Like, I need to address this in my life while also getting those tools. So there's a lot of ways you can invite people to Conquer series that can be really effective.

Yeah, if you only promote it for those that struggle. No one wants to show up because then their wives are going to know and they're like, well, I don't want her to think I struggle. And we haven't really talked about it much. And, and as I mentioned earlier, guys, we get so stuck in minimization and rationalization that we say, oh, I don't struggle with that. I mean, maybe once in a while, but it's not a big deal. Right. And see, the way you word that invitation is very, very important. And we recommend over and over the churches, particularly the Conqueror series, just have that wide open door to say, this is for all guys. This is for everyone. We all need to learn, we all need to be equipped and then people have that freedom to come. In fact, I would stand up the first night of the Conquer series with a group of men there and I'd say, just to be clear, we're all here for a friend. Right? And everyone laughs. Yeah, I'm here for my friend and want to help other people because there is something in all of us that wants to help other people. And ironically, part of the reason we want to help others in this area is because we know how painful it can be. We know our own story. But when we're there for someone else, when we hear the teaching, we understand the principles that kind of gets behind our defensiveness, behind our rationalization. And we say, I need to face this in my life. And then men are willing to enter into the long term process of change. Cool.

So, Rich, we've got people who want to bring pure desire to their church and they've had the conversation with the leadership because you don't have to be a pastor to bring this to your church. So they want to lead this group. They Want to get pure desire going, the conversation needs to be started in their church. So if you want to be a leader for pure desire at your church, what are the qualifications?

You know, that's a great question. And I have that conversation almost daily. And the one thing I always tell guys is if they're married, they have a job. We're all leaders somewhere in our life. So in the ministry, we're all uniquely qualified by our life experiences. So it's, you know, going through the material is one thing, but to have the experience of being set free while going through the material, that for somebody coming in, that's going to make a good leader because they're going to say, okay, he's a leader who struggled, he's been through it. So they're gonna, they're immediately going to attach themselves to that leader because the leader understands. So I let those guys know up front in Conquer series that what we want is, you know, we're going to go through Conquer series and then we're going to go through seven pillars. And after that we want you to start leading or co leading. You know, so they know up front that, hey, eventually I may be leading a group. So when they start leading a group, they've been through the process. But I tell those guys right up front that they're all leaders because they really are. They're leading in their jobs and their homes and ministry. This is just another piece where they can take those life experiences and make them even a better leader.

Yeah. One of the great things about pure desire groups is you really don't have to be an expert to lead it. We don't call our group leaders. Praise the Lord. Yeah, teachers. Because the training you need isn't about, well here. First you have to understand all the material and all the principles, and then you can lead. Well, that's not the case at all. The best leaders are really the ones that are in the process themselves. They've been broken before God, they're real with other men, and they're experiencing change in their own life. And so we say to churches and leaders, if you have men for men's groups and women for women's groups that are willing to be accountable to the church, have a passion for this ministry, whether or not you feel they're a great teacher or leader or not, that's okay. They can lead well because they're leading out of their humility, they're leading out of their weakness. And really that's where God does his best work. Because the material itself becomes the team. The Material is the resource and the expert. And the leaders are more facilitators. They're keeping the group on track. They're keeping people on task with their homework. That's what you need. So there is some training in terms of a leader needs to be familiar with the material, familiar with the process, some of the group guidelines. But that can really be done in several weeks of a pastor or leader meeting with a small group of men or women and training them in some of the fundamentals, and then they're ready to launch in and help lead groups.

Well, and there's that line in the Conquer series, too. As you're starting. If you've got a DVD player and you can press play, then you can lead a Conquer group. So we definitely want people to feel like they're already qualified just because they want to start groups in general, they're ready to go.

So, Rich, we know that groups play a big role in how churches create this ministry. Help men and women find freedom using the pure desire material. So what are some tips that you have for churches out there or even just someone that's a part of a church? This doesn't have to just be for pastors, but as a church is looking at running the groups, what are some tips you have to starting?

Well, the biggest one right out the gate is to really do a soft launch and not be too eager to just open it up to the whole church and not have any leaders available. We want them to, you know, if you have somebody in the church that wants to lead and then maybe some people on staff, really some key people, and then work with those and get them trained, maybe go through the material, you know, they're going through Conquer, go through some of the seven pillars, and then eventually they're gonna launch, but do a soft launch that way. So that way, when you go, maybe in the next fall or whatever, when you're launching a Conquer series and you have 60 guys show up, you may have five leaders that have been through the process for at least a year. We've come in on the other side of that, where churches have just launched a massive Conquer series and they have one leader and 100 guys show up. And then we're trying to help them wrangle that in and trying to figure that out. So when you could do a soft launch, that's the best way to start it.

We did a soft launch. When I was at my church and it started, I picked really 12 guys that I thought would be consistent and show up for the six weeks for the group. And little did I know that the Lord, like, specifically picked all 12 of these guys to be a part of the group. I had some of the craziest conversations I never thought would take place just because I was looking for guys who were consistent. And now that ministry has, like, it's bloomed, it's blossomed to a point where now they've got multiple groups and multiple leaders, all from really just picking 12 guys that I thought, you know, maybe they would help me with this ministry. So the soft launch is definitely something that's effective.

I think another thing to keep in mind is that Pure Desire has been doing this for over 20 years. They've paid the dumb tax on a lot of things not to do. And so when I think about starting a group, well, it's to say, follow the material, read the introduction, follow the guidance of the leader's guide, because that's not in there just as extra fluff. I know there are books you read. The introduction is like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Let's just dive in. And I think that's a temptation we all face in churches and in small groups is, oh, we know how to do small groups. Let's just do it the way we do it. And then we get churches that call you Rich and say, you know, our groups aren't working and here's why. And we'll ask them questions about, well, are you following our group guidelines? Are you doing this? And they'll say, well, no. Do we have to? It's like, well, you don't have to, like, in a mandatory way, but if you want it to be an effective ministry, trust our advice, trust our experience, and actually do it the way the material recommends. There are ways you can contextualize it for your group, you know, when the group meets, the time, some of those sorts of things. But there are a lot of pieces that really are key to making it effective. And so to follow the recommendations just will set you up for success as a ministry. Anything you would say to add to that, Rich?

Yeah, you know, we take. You know, we're a little different here where we have our groups at East Hill, you know, we have over 100 guys roughly on the roster. And, you know, we have our leaders meeting every week before group. Now, a lot of churches can't do that because their groups meet at different times. But if you can get your leaders to meet, you know, weekly or maybe quarterly or however, that is where the leaders can meet together and be accountable just to the leaders. They're not going through material. They're basically they're talking about groups, what's working in group, what's not working, what can we do better? And then every time we have that leaders meeting, I have the best practices and the group guidelines that there as well. So we're looking at those pieces and saying, okay, are we missing something? What can we do better? But I think when you have the leaders all on the same page and where we're meeting and talking about those things, those groups are a lot stronger. And then we find that when we do that, we have a less attrition rate because our leaders are strong. We stick to the guidelines and we stick to the best practices. We make sure that all the guys are doing the memo of understanding coming to Knin and they understand it. And then we revisit that periodically, going through. So it's not just sign it and then you're done. We'll go back to it every once in a while.

Yeah. And I think that brings up an important point that you really do need a point person for the ministry. So that every group leader knows if I have an issue or something comes up, whether it's in the group or in my own life. Because that's the reality some leaders go through and they're still in the midst of their own struggle and they're maybe making progress, but it's not a perfect, seamless journey. The leader needs to know, who can I talk to if something happens in my group or something happens in my life? Because this kind of ministry can be isolating. It can make a leader feel like, well, I have no one to talk to or ask questions. So that's why we really encourage a church. You need to have established as the group launches, who does the group leader go to? And usually that point person is doing some level of training, whether it's weekly, which is. I mean, that's an awesome setup. I know a lot of other churches do a monthly kind of leaders meeting, whatever it is, so that every group leader feels like, I'm supported. I have others that I can share with and get ideas for how to be more effective in our groups.

And that's what's great too, about the fact that we offer. We have Rich as support, we have the rgls as support, and then you've got your point person. And so there's really nobody that's going to be alone or isolated in their leadership. We have many layers of support in order to really help get this going and to maintain peer desire groups in a church.

Yeah. And I know we've been talking most of the answers I've been given are geared towards the men. But on the women's side, we have I think 10 or 12 women's regional leaders all over the country. And then Ashley Jamison oversees those as well. So Ashley and I are coming together and really training these churches and having these leader meetings with these churches all around the country and really talking about exactly what we're talking about, best practices, the group guidelines and making sure that they are following that. And when they are, the groups are running really smooth. And when we come in on the other end when they're not following it, then you know, it's hard to get them to go back to the way it should be. But we're really finding a lot of success in those meetings. And then after those meetings the leaders are calling us a lot just to follow up because hey, that's a great idea. How can I put that? Make it even work even better. So those are really key meetings that we are putting on.

Definitely. Okay, so we've walked through really what to do in order to get Pure Desire going at your church. But now I want to switch gears a little bit and ask what are some no no's to starting Pure Desire ministry at your church?

Yeah, that's. We get that question a lot too. Or not question. I guess the situation, I think the biggest one is when a church is all in, which is great. They're all in with the ministry, they're totally support it. But they, they're so eager to get going, they just launch a conquer series, have 500 guys show up and nobody delete them. Now you've shown the Conquer series and all these guys are like now what? And then I get to Ashley and I get those calls for the men and women and like, hey, we just watched this orientation. Our church isn't offering any groups. So now we're scrambling to find groups for all these people, online groups, in person groups. And it can be a struggle. So that's, that's the big one.

Yeah. When you show the Conquer series, you're really going to get to people's hearts and it's going to expose the problem and it's, they're going to be at that readiness of like, what must I do now? And if a church isn't ready, it kind of can be a real non starter. It's like all we did was expose the problem, but we weren't ready to move people into groups. And because they're ready, it's that idea of, you know, strike while the iron is hot. That when they're saying I need to deal with this, you want to have a group right away. So you want to have a leader ready and to say we're going to move you right into this seven pillars group if it's men, or right into this eight pillars group if it's one women. And when you've got that in place ahead of time, that's the vision is we're going to start here. But the real goal is to move people into these long term communities of health and healing where they'll have the time to process their story in a way that actually changes them.

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, you know, when you have a group that's an open group, that's an issue. You know, we want guys to be able to come to group where there's, where it's safe for them to share. When you have an open group format, you are where you're allowing guys to come in at any time, anytime during the process. It really creates an unsafety or unsafe position for guys because now they feel like they can't share because these guys they can trust. Now I got four more guys. So we really encourage groups. You know, I mean it's been a conversation here lately about when do we close a group. You know, now we're, you know, maybe pillar two or, but you know, or when you get six, you know, six. But you don't want to have more than six guys, five to six guys in a group. And once you get there, you're closed. You know, like I said here at East Hill, we do it a little bit different. I mean, once we start a group, we're closed first night and we don't put anybody else in that group. And a lot of churches will have an open group format where the guys come in, men and women and they come in, they're not on the same lesson. They don't always share every week. And what happens is those people that are going to those groups are calling Ashley and I with concerns of like I'm not here, you know, I'm not getting anything out of the group. Yeah.

A couple reasons that having your groups not be open is on the first is that you want to give people that safety and confidentiality that I can share absolutely anything in this group and they're going to receive it and listen and they're going to be trusted with it. And we hear routinely from people that I've shared things with my peer desire group. I've never told anyone else. And when you have an open group and people coming in and out. To develop that level of trust and confidence is really hard to do. The other thing, or the second reason I'd say why it's important not to have the groups be open is you really want to stress to the people in the group that this has to be a top shelf priority. In fact, that's the phrase Dr. Ted Roberts used with me when I started a group. He said, your group commitment has to be first priority in your life because otherwise it won't work. Because we just make it one of the many things we do. And I think that's common in churches with small groups and other ministries. It's like, well, if I can make it, it's good, and if I don't, you know, not a big deal. It's. It's just kind of a nice extra thing. And that may be the case with some kind of material. But when you're trying to change the addictive nature of our sexual struggles, if you're not engaged weekly in the process, doing the homework, you know, filling out your faster scale, making your phone calls, it's not going to happen. And so when there's a group that has five or six guys and they're ready to go, we're telling them, this is going to be your weekly priority. And so the expectation is those same five or six guys are going to be there pretty much every single week. And when that's the case, then that trust builds, that confidence builds to be able to share anything. And it's amazing to watch when you have that safety built in because it's the same guys week in and week out, how they move from being wary strangers, uncertain of one another, to being deep friends because they've entrusted some of the darkest stuff of themselves with others and found that it's okay and they're still loved. And, and that's really, I think, a huge part of what leads to transformation.

It's biblical community, and that's what's amazing and rich. I remember when I was starting my groups, I had a conversation with you where you said, you need to take this into consideration. There are guys who spent years and years and years in addiction. And six hours of the Conquer series is not all of a sudden going to flip that around. And we're wounded in community, and then we're also healed in community.

One of the other no nos, just want to make sure we mention in this podcast is to think of this as only a men's issue. Statistics and research is saying that 25 to 30% of women are having a Struggle with whether it's pornography or a love addiction or unhealthy emotional attachments with men. When you stand up as a church, you say, we're going to help the men find freedom. We're going to start these men groups. What it inadvertently communicates to women who struggle is, there's really something wrong with me because I'm a woman and I'm having issues. So we really encourage churches to say, even if you're only starting the men's groups first, because there are some reasons that that can create a better on ramp or just the way you build the ministry. But the vision from the get go needs to be, we want to help everyone in our church. We want to help men who struggle, women who struggle, men who are hurt by women who struggle, women who are hurt by men who struggle. It's that holistic approach to say, we all need healing, whether we're male or female, whether we're the wounder or the wounded. And when you present it that way from the beginning, then everyone knows it really is safe. No matter what I'm going through, it's safe to face this struggle. And the groups will really help you do that.

Yeah.

So, Rich, let's close out with this. I just want to ask, if you were to give encouragement to someone who wants to start pure desire at their church, what would be the first couple things that you would encourage them with?

It's going to change their life forever. I mean, in the best way possible. It's a ministry that saved my life and it'll do the same for anybody else. It's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. And I think that's why there's so many people involved in ministry, is because we've taken the easy route. But to commit to the process, and not just to commit to, you know, five weeks in the DVD and then nine months. I mean, I've been in it for 20 years and I'm still doing it. It's a life commitment. And once you take that on and really look at it, you know, when it changes your life, you automatically want to give back to help somebody else because you know what it can do for them. And that's the big encouragement is because I look what it's done in my life in the thousands of men in the last 20 years, in the conversations that I've had with them and the friendships that I've developed in the relationships, those are never going to go away. And those are the type of guys, men and women, that you're going to get in group. Some of my best friends are all Pure Desire guys now. And it's a decision you make that's going to affect your life forever in your daily walk.

And I think some encouragement I'd give to leaders or pastors that are listening, especially when you hear Rich talk about that long term commitment, they might be feeling like, I just don't have time to do this. And one of the great things about launching a Pure Desire ministry is that if you'll take some of the key steps up front to structure it well, to get a few leaders in place, it really does not take direct involvement of a senior pastor or your staff because it really will be run by those who are being changed by it. And I think most churches find this is maybe the least leadership intensive ministry you could ever have. So if you're on the front end and you're a pastor saying, man, I don't know if we have time for this, I want to tell you, you do, because if you'll just help encourage it publicly, give people permission to enter in, get some leaders going, then really your level of involvement can be pretty minimal. And that's neat to watch the church be in the hands of the people. And it really thrives best in that format.

Guys, this conversation was great. Rich, you're so helpful, man. We appreciate you and your ministry and, and we encourage anybody who's listening. If you have any questions and you're wanting to start groups, men or women's groups, just to call Rich or call Ashley and you can find them on our website. And thanks for listening to the Pure Desire podcast. If you like hearing what we're putting out, we'd ask that you subscribe and check out our website@puredesire.org podcast and you can also follow us on social media. Earedesirepdmi. And once again, that's Earedesirepdmi. See you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to purchase SA.