006 - Is It Really An Addiction?

Before we start the podcast today, we wanted to let you know about an upcoming event, Pure Desire's Redeemed Men's Conference, September 15th through 17th at Cascades Camp in Yelm, Washington. This will be a time to gather together as men where we will worship together, hear world class teachings, learn from experienced workshop speakers, and learn more about how to battle for purity in Christ. Come escape the noise and distraction of everyday Life. Join us September 15th through 17th and rest in what Christ calls you. Redeemed. To register, visit PureDesire.org redeemed We hope to see you there. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here as always with my co host Nick Stumbo present. And our guest today is one that wears many hats here at Pure Desire, Heather Kolb. Heather is an editor, author, speaker, adjunct professor, and an all around all star in our book. Heather, welcome to the PD podcast. How you doing?

Thank you. I am doing well.

Awesome. So we're super excited to have Heather with us today because we're going to spend our time talking about the nature of sexual addiction and answer the big question, is it really an addiction? But before we do that, Heather, can you just introduce yourself, give us some of your background and maybe tell us a little bit more specifically what you do here at Peer Desire?

Sure. So I started my academic career kind of later in life. So about the past 15 years, I was a student and a staff member and faculty at a central Oregon community college where I studied criminal behavior and psychology. I am passionate about the brain and behavior, and so that's really what drives my connection with Pure Desire. I've been with Pure Desire for about the past two and a half years, and I love traveling around the United States to different churches and teaching on the neurochemistry of the brain. So that's kind of my baby. And I'm honored to do that. I also am married and I have three adult sons, so I sometimes get to study human behavior up close and personal.

You have case studies in your own home?

Absolutely.

Well, Heather, I love hearing you teach on the brain and I love how people respond to you. So well, they say that made sense. All these things that I never understood, you know, they're more real now. And so I'm excited to have you on the program for those reasons because I think for most of us listening, if I'm guessing most of us have a pretty narrow definition of addiction, that our experience of it Tends to be pretty limited to drugs and alcohol, if we could say. And so we want to maybe help broaden some of that spectrum for people to really get a deeper, fuller understanding of addiction. So help us and our listeners understand what truly constitutes an addiction.

So an addiction is generally characterized by an ongoing, out of control pattern of compulsive behaviors that cause problems in the addict's life. So while there technically is no official definition for sex addiction, most definitions include these three things. Where attempts have been made by the addict to self correct their behavior, and that's been unsuccessful. Where promises were made to themselves and others to change their behavior, and again, those promises were broken, and despite the threat of negative consequences, the addict cannot stop their unwanted behavior. So those are three common core characteristics that you see in, in definitions that include sexual addiction. So some experts would say, though, that we're all addicted to something. And whether or not you're addicted to a substance or to a behavior, the brain changes that take place. Both structure and function of the brain tend to be identical.

Yeah, those three categories were key for me in my own journey several years ago, and I think I mentioned this on another podcast. But the way they were put to me in kind of real, basic layman's terms is just, how long has it been a problem? How many times have you tried to stop and is it causing you or people you love significant pain? And the way I answered those questions just was like, oh, wow, that makes sense. And my friend who was asking the question said, you know, that's kind of the clinical definition of addiction. You know, so there may be some men or women listening that feel like, well, when it comes to sex or pornography or whatever their struggle is, they might be saying, well, it only happens once a month or every other month. So you said an out of control behavior. And, and they might think, well, I'm not out of control. Is it possible that it's still addictive in their life, even if it's a month or two month sort of habitual behavior?

Yeah, absolutely. And especially because a lot of people would like to think that addiction is only one type of behavior. But what research suggests is that there's a lot of comorbidity with addictive behavior. So it's unlikely that somebody only struggles with one form of addiction. So, so maybe they're not looking at pornography and masturbating every month, but maybe every two to three months. But then you'd want to look in their lifestyle to see, okay, are they compulsive in any other way? Are they Then changing it out with compulsive shopping or with online gambling or with something else that they're doing that still would really solidify fantasy sports. Exactly. A pattern of addictive behavior.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's really helpful.

So, but what's the difference, then? Because, like, I love golf. Golf is one of my things. I love to play that. I think about it a lot, and it's something that makes me happy, makes me feel good. I enjoy doing that. So what's the difference between an addictive behavior and something like golf, where I do frequently because it makes me happy or I find joy in it?

So addictive behaviors typically create a sense of shame and guilt, even if in the moment we're using the behavior and because we want to make ourselves feel better or feel happy. There's a core component to despair and distress that typically follows an addictive behavior. And you really recognize this when your addictive behavior pushes you deeper into isolation, where it's something that you keep secret, that you hide from other people, something that makes you happy. Like your golfing example is something you probably do with other people or you do on your own, and you. Either way, it's good. Addictive behaviors, there's a lot of isolation that happens with that. That's usually a good indicator.

The only shame I ever feel around golf is my score, and the only thing I isolate.

Amen to that, brother.

I keep my score from my friends. Did you shoot a six on that hole? No, I shot a four. No big deal.

Well, lying will be in another episode, Trevor.

We'll talk about that. I'm looking forward. I need that episode to happen.

So, Heather, you mentioned isolation and shame being big factors. I wonder, for the younger person, millennials, this nature, this behavior has really changed in our society where they might say, I don't hide it from people. All my friends do it. I don't necessarily feel bad about it, but we might be able to look in from the outside and see, man, it's compulsive. It's addictive. How would you respond to that person that says, I don't feel shame. I don't isolate?

I would look specifically at the behavior and really, again, try and find a core component where they are isolating and they are hiding. A lot of times with especially even social media, people will put things out there, but it might be only just a version of what they're doing, but it's not the whole truth of what they're doing. So I think that still, that definition or core component of addictive behavior is isolation.

Yeah. Yeah. So help us see a little bit more. How does an addiction develop? Where does it typically come from in someone's life?

So it isn't necessarily one thing that drives a person into addiction. And in fact, there are many variables that are going to come into play. There's many theories that help to explain addictive behavior. For example, one of the common things that you hear is that people who struggle with addiction, that they were raised in an environment where addiction was present, that there was either some substance abuse happening in the home, or there was a parent who had their own addictive behaviors. But then again, the. There's a lot of addicts who weren't raised in that kind of environment. So there isn't just a one size fits all. When even diagnosing addictive behavior, Most addicts have experienced some form of trauma. And this isn't necessarily childhood trauma. It could be even adult trauma that would push someone towards addiction. It's important to remember that addictive behavior exists on a continuum as well as trauma. So socially, we tend to think that the worst of the worst traumas would be a consistent physical or sexual abuse in a child's life. But then sometimes, you know, parents divorcing can be very traumatic for a child. Other things would be environmental instability. So you have a child who has moved frequently in there during those developmental years. That could be extremely traumatic. And so, again, trauma is trauma, and all of it is serious, and all of it is important, whether the addict thinks so or not.

So you're saying that a lot of addiction can develop out of trauma. But I'm guessing for many of our listeners, because of what you said, particularly the extreme forms of trauma is what comes to mind as they're listening. They probably feel like, I don't really have any trauma. So I'm sure I'm not addicted because they grew up in a good home and a good family. So you mentioned, you know, environmental factors like moving a lot. Are there other things that even in a quote, unquote, good family could be part of that kind of breeding ground of addiction?

Absolutely, sometimes. Research suggests that even poverty can be a precursor to addictive behavior, Especially when it comes to, you know, somebody who grew up without money and now they want to do whatever they can to attain money, that can be the driving force behind an addictive behavior just as well. So, again, trauma can look different in everyone's life, but the way that it affects them and the way that it makes them feel is typically what's driving the addiction.

Yeah, yeah. I know in my own story and many other stories I've heard in a Christian home, it can be a sense of trying to live up to a standard or, you know, what I would call a performance mindset, that I had to perform well enough to be loved or be valued. And so I think for me, that created that breeding ground of addiction, because in addiction or acting out, I was always good enough. My brain learned that that's a place I always feel successful, even if it was that brief moment of time and then it was followed by a wave of guilt and shame, that was enough for my brain to say, this worked. And so when I started the counseling journey, and, you know, the counselor said, well, that you're probably going to find trauma in your past. Like, you don't know my childhood, it was, like, idyllic. But I looked back and could see, because we're all living in this broken world with broken people. Even if our parents are awesome, they're broken people, where there were these cracks that allowed thoughts and ideas to get in that could become the seed of addiction in our lives.

Absolutely. And. And it's often said that addiction is really. People are looking for an escape, and that escape that they're usually running from is a feeling. So it's a feeling of shame or guilt or worthlessness or that I'm not enough. And so what they're using for their escape, their addiction can be anything.

Yeah. And that goes back to what we discussed earlier with the person that maybe is only acting out with pornography or sexually every month or two, that becomes the escape. But maybe daily they're escaping a fear of rejection or failure. And if that can get unmasked, it's so valuable in leading to life transformation.

Well, and with that, too. We live in a culture where you need to be the best student you can be, you need to be the best athlete you can be, you socially need to be the best that you can be. And so it's like a breeding ground for shame in so many ways. And my story is similar. Where I grew up in a home where there wasn't trauma, I wasn't abused, there wasn't an estranged marriage. My parents are still together. It's. It's that. But it's. When I was in athletics, if I didn't succeed, then I wasn't looked at as successful. I wasn't valued as much. And so for me, even just being an athlete for most of my life, I found myself in a shame cycle because my identity was wrapped up in how other people felt about me. Based on my own performance on a ball field, you know, and so I think that our culture really ends up being this, like, downward spiral, like a toilet of shame that just continues to go down.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

So we talk about addiction, and we talk about what it is in its nature, but is there a point in life or an age when a person is most or more susceptible to developing an addiction?

I think that we are all vulnerable to addiction at any age. However, I do agree with research that young people ages approximately 12 to 24 years old are more susceptible to addiction. And really, that has a lot to do with the things that are going on in their brain and in their body. You have young people who start puberty in that age range, which then they have these hormones that are doing funky things in their body that they've never experienced before. And it's one of the times in brain development where their brain is going through a major reconstruction, and, again, they're not even sure what's happening in their brain. And then the other key component to that is that as adults, if you're, you know, older than your mid-20s, your prefrontal cortex, which is the area right behind your forehead, is fully developed. And that helps us as adults to plan and to make decisions and helps us to control our impulses.

That's why you can't rent a car till you're 25, right?

Exactly.

Insurance liability goes way down, which is.

Just so bogus if you're not 25 yet.

Right.

But for young people, they have all these changes going on. They end up, you know, coming across pornography or something online that was not their intent, but yet it happens usually around the age of 11, is what statistics tell us. And that exposure then puts into their brain that, okay, this was exciting. There was some risk in that. I probably shouldn't do this, but I like this. It might lead them to seeking out more pornography and masturbation. And yet they don't have the brain power to stop doing their behavior because their prefrontal cortex isn't developed yet.

Can you speak to. And you speak to this. We have an event called Pure Desire University where we go around and we talk at churches about this stuff, the neurochemistry. Can you talk a little bit about what pornography does to the brain, why it is so addictive in its nature?

Sure. So pornography, just like any other type of substance, stimulates the production of dopamine in the brain, which is our reward. Makes us feel happy, makes us feel good. That's the neurotransmitter that's at play. And pornography does the same thing. It stimulates that production of dopamine in the brain, and then it pushes it all to the prefrontal cortex, which, again, in an adolescent's brain, that area of the brain isn't fully functional. And yet when we overstimulate the production of dopamine to the prefrontal cortex, it inhibits brain function. So not only do they not have it working well, their prefrontal cortex, but they also almost are not capable of impulse control. And so they really, in a lot of ways are putting into motion this really life changing event in their brain because they're overstimulating the production of dopamine through pornography use, which then is fueled by fantasy, it's fueled by other mechanisms that are at play, and it really can be detrimental.

So how can those of us or those that are listening who are starting to realize or have already realized they are struggling with this at an addictive level? How might we admit we need help? What approach would you recommend? I mean, should they, after listening to this podcast, just go and unload everything on their spouse? Or what's the best way to take some steps into facing addiction?

So taking some steps into facing addiction, I would recommend that you first need to break denial. That's one of the key components in any kind of counseling process or any kind of peer desire group process. We're going to work on that research. Never, counselors, experts, never recommend that someone go and dump their whole sexual history on their spouse because unfortunately, it ends up traumatizing their spouse. And a lot of times addicts don't even know what they want to confess. And so they might confess everything that they think is pertinent today, but then two months from now, confess again. And for their spouse, this ends up re traumatizing their spouse every time that they.

We just confess enough till we feel better.

Exactly.

But we might be missing some pretty important pieces of the story.

You're destroying someone else's life.

Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. So we usually recommend that an individual who struggles with addictive behavior, that they gain some sobriety in their own life first, that they, you know, six months of sobriety, that they have support, that they've had counseling, that they've been in a group before they disclose to their spouse.

So you just talked about how if we're struggling with an addiction, how we admit that we need help, but what if we, whether we're, you know, admitted that we have a problem as well, what if we see somebody that we know who's also Struggling with an addiction, whether it's pornography or sexual addiction or food or alcohol or anything like that, what would it look like for us to effectively come alongside that person and help them and support them in that addiction?

This is a great question. Often if you have somebody that you know that you have a connection with, that they're struggling with some form of addiction and they're ready for help, that's the key component. They're ready for help. Coming alongside them can be offering counseling through pure desire or telling them about pure desire groups, and again, helping them to understand that they're not alone in their struggle. That especially if you have your own addictive story that you could share with them, that's really powerful. There are a lot of addicts who are struggling, and it's obvious to everybody else around them, but not to them. And that's the one where you need to be a little bit more gracious in your approach with them. And again, maybe it just starts out by telling them your story and how you struggled with addiction and the steps that you've taken to find sobriety and healing in your own life. And maybe that would be a place to motivate them to seek out help.

Yeah, I like that idea that you open the door by, like, sharing your story or coming with some grace. Hey, I've seen this, and I just want you know I care and I love you. But if you open that door and they don't step through, I try to encourage people, you got to just wait because they don't step through. But you keep going, you're actually going to start to push them further away because now they're feeling defensive, they're feeling attacked, they're feeling criticized for things they do. And that's just what you're saying. They're not ready. And we can't make someone be ready, unfortunately. And I tell people in groups a lot that you can't work harder than the person you're trying to help. If you find at any point, whether it's your spouse or another person in group that you care about or just a friend, if you're doing more work on their addiction or their issue than they are, you're not helping anymore. You're just contributing to them, letting you do the work for them. So it has to come from that person for real change to take place.

Yeah, absolutely. I've said the same thing to my kids and to my students, is that I can't want this for you more than you want it for you. So it definitely has to be something that they initiate. But again, coming alongside them and helping them to find, find the tools that are best fit for them is really being a gracious friend.

Well, and too, I think that, and I've said it this way and thought through it this way before that in a lot of ways it's like I'm standing on the front porch of their house and it's their screen door that I'm seeing them through, seeing their life. But until they open that door and invite me in, I shouldn't take any action. I shouldn't try to step over the line to get into their life or into their addiction until I'm invited in, until I have that relationship and that rapport established. And I think that that happens through story. I mean, we all connect to the story. That's why Jesus spoke in parables. That's why he communicated that way. So I think that we just have to, we really do have to wait until they open that door and let us in.

So maybe some who are listening to this podcast, Heather, are feeling like, I do want this, I do want help, I want to know how to change. But I've been unsuccessful over and over. So what are some practical tools or application that comes to mind that we can use to break these addictive tendencies and the habits on a daily basis?

Even so, one of the things to remember when dealing with addictive behaviors is that gaining sobriety is not the hard part. The hard part is living in sobriety and maintaining. Maintaining? Yeah, because a lot of people can gain sobriety in, you know, within a couple months of their behavior that they wanted to abstain from, and yet they need to be able to address also their triggers and the other things that cause them to act out. And so again, living in sobriety is the key. One thing that you can do that is a great way to break addictive behaviors is to be involved in an accountability group. Again, if you look at isolation as one of the key components of an addictive behavior, than being with other people, surrounding yourself with other people, you know, addicts and non addicts alike, that are going to support you and walk you through the change that needs to take place in your life, that's usually a best place to start. At Pure Desire, we have curriculum that focuses on the addict helping them as well as the spouse who has been betrayed. We also have curriculum for, you know, college aged men, for teenage males, for teenage females, and really anybody who wants to address the issues that they have in their own life and be able to at some point help others walk through Sobriety, that's also another good place to spot to start. There's also some other things that we can do because again, it's making a choice to change your lifestyle, to change the way that you live. And that does include some very consistent and daily practices. So things like establishing your identity is really important. Trevor, you had mentioned earlier that your identity was wrapped up in your performance, which was the basis for some of your addictive behaviors. And yet all of us want an identity. All of us need to know who we are. And so if we want to step out of our addictive behaviors, we need to redefine and re establish our identity, which comes from again breaking some of those unwanted behaviors, but then replacing them with something healthy. And as Christ followers, we want to replace our selfish, self centered identity with who we are in Christ, which comes from daily being in his word and re establishing really who we are. Other things that you can do would include self care. A lot of people who struggle with addiction, they don't usually practice really good healthy eating, sleeping, exercise, some of those basic things. So practicing self care can be really instrumental. Also, a lot of addicts are busy, busy, busy. And so taking time out from your day to just relax and meditate and do something that is calming, even if it's just in the moment, can also be another way to really again gain that control back in your life that you lost through your addiction and start developing healthy habits.

Yeah. One of the other tools that we recommend for people, especially if someone's listening to this or you're working with someone, a friend that says, I don't think I have an addiction, we recommend they take the Sexual Addiction Screening Test, the sast. And I know it's on our website, I know there's other formats of it online that you can take because it's a very simple, I think it's 40 questions or so. Yes, no. So it puts it in black and white. These questions that we tend to live in, a lot of gray areas say, well, maybe. And once in a while when you have yes, no questions and you have to mark yes or no, it really can be clarifying because it says if you're over six or more on the core questions, you may have an addiction. It's not a diagnosis tool to say you do, but it gives you some awareness of, oh, maybe I should check this out. And I've talked to so many people through the years that thought, oh, I thought I was doing fine. I thought it was just this occasional thing, but I took the SAST and wow, I scored pretty high. And as they lean into that journey, God uses it in some amazing ways to really help expose something that maybe they've lived in denial of a long time. And so that's why we recommend the sast, is just to break through that denial. And I know we'll link to it on this podcast.

Yeah. And it's a first step to self awareness of addiction. Yeah. And that's why we suggest it so.

Well, just one other practical thing I would say about tools as we're on that topic. I think for a lot of people that grew up in the church, what comes to mind is, well, confession is the key. I just got to confess. Confess and, you know, get everything out in the open. And obviously confession is good. It's biblical. We need to do that. But I like to remind people, confession is not the end. Confession is the beginning. Confession opens the door to expose what's going on. But that enough doesn't change us. There has to be, as Romans 12 says, to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. So as we've confessed, as we've opened that door, the steps we take next, some of those things you were saying, Heather, to renew the mind, being in God's word, being in group, being looking at where do we get our identity from? What do we believe about ourselves? What have our past taught us? What lies are we listening to? That's the real work of sobriety, of staying in this place that my mind is being renewed, not just the perpetual cycle of feeling bad about myself through confession. So for any that maybe shared that view that I did that well, confession is the goal. See that as the beginning that leads you into renewing the mind.

Well, and I would say it leads you into repentance, which is what renewal is a part of, because repentance is the turning. So confession is that first part where you're admitting that you're wrong. And then repentance, is that true? Turn to head towards Christ and away from your sinful nature. And part of that, the way we do I.e. romans 12, or renewing of the mind. Absolutely.

Yeah. And I'd also like to add too, that to keep in mind that addictive behavior, the behavior is just a symptom of something that is much deeper. The addiction is not the problem. So it does take this journey of being in group and this process of renewing your mind that you end up realizing where the core component came from. And then again, that's where the work begins.

And what that speaks to for me is just how important it is for many of us that we kind of redefine the way we look at addiction, because we might have looked at it as a category that defines someone's character or who they are. Oh, you're an addict. And so that makes us feel like, well, I can't be an addict and love Jesus because it defines me. And we try to help people see it. Pure desire that an addiction is a symptom. It's not defining who you are, your character. It's defining what your struggle is and what you're going to have to do to get out of it. So we work with men and women every single day and in groups every week that love Jesus. And I would say they love Jesus with their whole heart as much as they're able to. And they struggle with an addiction. It's not an either or. And I think when people see that, that. That it's possible that I love Jesus and I've gotten caught up in something, I can't seem to break out of myself. It actually gives us some freedom to admit that and say, yeah, I've allowed myself to a place that's unhealthy. But because I love Jesus and because he's with me, I believe there's hope and there's freedom. And so I. I really hope, Heather, as you share these things and as you continue to share them across the country and. And I hope some churches hearing this might invite you to get to share these things, that it will just help all of us and help the church say we need to face this together and not treat it like those who are away from God. But to say, this is all of us. We may be in this boat and sitting in church every week, and if we can give people that freedom and what a tremendous gift that would be.

Yeah, well. And I think that we all need to admit that we have some sort of addiction in our life, which is truly idolatry. We're putting something above the Lord and in the place that only he deserves to be. So whether or not it's pornography or something else, everybody has, I think, believe it was John Calvin that said that our hearts are idle factories. We just continually pump things out that we can control and we can really, we can see, submit to anything other than the Lord. Okay, so, Heather, this is so much good information. If you're listening to this, you probably should be taking notes. And if you don't go back, start the episode over again and write it down. But all this information, how would this help somebody knowing all this stuff? How would it help them in their fight with their addiction.

I would hope that it would help them to realize that addictive behavior is real and it's devastating for the addict and for the lives of those around an addict. I also would hope them to help them to realize that sexual addiction is equally devastating. So it is in the same, you know, category as substance abuse or gambling or some of those other addictive behaviors that are maybe even more socially acceptable. I would hope that they would recognize that we're all addicts and that we are all in need of so much grace when it comes to even being brave and even, you know, taking those first steps to say, okay, this is my area of struggle and I need help and I can't do it on my own. I would hope that they would realize that they can take that step. And then also I hope that they recognize that there are places that are safe, that at Pure Desire in our groups, we've designed them to be a safe place for someone to find healing and where they won't have to experience more trauma, but that they can find out who they are and be real and work through their trauma with other people who struggle with addictive behaviors the same way.

Awesome. Well, Heather, this was very, very cool. Thanks for being here. We appreciate how smart you are and sharing all your expertise, and this is just a lot of good stuff. So we hope this information helps you understand addiction and really how to combat it, because that's why we're here. We want to combat addiction.

Thank you.

And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please please subscribe and check out our website, PureDesire.org also, you can follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. Once again, that's PureDesire PDMI. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast, and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to purity.