014 - Growing A Healthy Groups Ministry

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor and we are so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us today. I am here with Nick Stumbo.

Greetings.

And Brian Roberts.

Hey, everybody.

Alright. And today we're going to talk about how to develop a healthy and growing Pure Desire ministry at your church. So, guys, let's just jump right in. You okay with that?

Let's do it.

Cool. So, guys, it's always exciting when your Pure Desire groups have started and they're growing. You're getting more traction. But there are times when size in the group can become an issue where you got too many people in a group. So let me just ask you guys, what's a reasonable size group group and why is that size the one that we want people to go for?

I would say, you know, really a good group size is four to six.

Guys.

I've done a group with three. It works. Two is not a good idea because it's just kind of, again, you and that one other person and you might be off. But four to six is a really great size. Four is optimal because you've got plenty of different perspectives and there's enough time for everyone to share. I've noticed when the group gets to six people, you're usually, especially in some of the longer assignments stretching towards the end to just get the commitment to change to, okay, guys, let's hustle. There's just too many times it feels like that's happening, but that's what I would say.

I think a lot of churches find that if you start with four, you may be in danger of dropping down to two or three because a little bit of attrition up front is pretty common in groups. Just you get the guy that ends up not working out for his schedule or he gets a couple weeks in and just gets overwhelmed and feels like I'm not ready and flakes out. So when you look at starting, if you have five or six, even seven to start, you can kind of count on one or two probably aren't going to be in for the long haul. But that will put you in the ideal size because as Brian said, when you get down to two or three, you can still have great conversations at that level. But I think what a lot of churches find is it's hard to maintain the momentum because if you do have a guy that there are legit reasons someone might have to miss, they're out of town for work, they're deathly ill. You know, they got sick kids at home and they need to be there. And then if they miss, the other two are like, well, let's just meet next week. And pretty soon you're only meeting a couple times a month. And the group just kind of can kind of stall out. So when you start to have a few more. When you start is great. And if it ends up staying large, then I think you kind of look into what are some ways that we can handle a larger group.

Let me touch on that a little bit. So my experience with the people in my groups have been usually at first you feel like four, five, six guys or girls is like, not enough. Like, you feel like, how are we gonna fill two hours with all of this? But the more that you go through group and the more that you go through the content, you find out you have a lot more to share than you originally thought. And so you get to the point where it's like, man, it would be nice if we had four guys instead of six or, you know, or same thing with the ladies. So I think that you end up seeing that it's okay that you have only a small amount of guys or gals in group because conversation gets deeper, more self awareness happens. And I think that's the beauty of the group. So protecting that group size is pretty important.

Let's talk about when groups are getting large or you just have too many people that want to be in. Is splitting groups a thing? Or maybe you'd call it multiplying or dividing, Whatever mathematical term you want to use. But when and how should group leaders consider splitting a group?

So I know for me, we've run into this for a couple of different reasons. One, before the conquer series was out, this was a problem because you would have people who are like, I gotta get a group. And you're like, well, you gotta wait 10 months. We just started. You know, nobody, nobody wants to have that conversation. So one of the reasons that I've seen that groups go grow is because the church needs to, you know, needs to facilitate someone's healing. So one thing I would say kind of right off the bat that every group should be considering. You might have to work with adding people for a short amount of time, but the sooner your church can get in a rhythm of having consistent conquer groups, like, I know my church, we do them four times a year. So it's always great to just tell a guy like, oh, yeah, I know you're really struggling right now. We've Got a group starting and it's never more than like three or four weeks away or we just started a group hop in. And by having the Conquer series right up front, I've noticed that reduces the frequency of which you'll have to change group size later on. Because people who go through the Conquer series, they either say, yeah, I got something out of it, but I'm not really, that's not me. I'm not ready to sign up for a year commitment to being in a small group, or they're like, wow, this is me. I'm committed. Here we go. And so that reduces the fallout, I think, and also gives a place for people to go instead of going to one of our, you know, seven pillars, eight pillars trail and beyond groups that are going to go for 10 months to 12 months. And so I think that's one piece that we used to have to deal with that I don't think we have to deal with as much if you're, if you're set up right. In the event, though, that we do either split a group because we're, we don't have any other place for someone to go and they really need help. I think one of the key pieces I've recognized is this is why co leaders are so important. Every time I've started a group, I usually tap one or two guys within the first week to say, I'd like you to consider co leading. And I talked to everybody about the fact that for your healing, you should consider leading a group, you know, after you've seen some variety in the next time around or maybe two times around. And so every time I've run into a situation where we have to split a group, I usually have a co leader ready to go and say, okay, you've co led for a while, we've alternated back and forth, or if I've been out, you're taking over, you feel comfortable. And as soon as that split happens, I'm telling that co leader, okay, I've got another co leader I'm developing. You need to find somebody in your group too. So I think the co leader is a big element of if you're ending up having to split a group, doing.

It successfully and you would say, you.

Know, you guys would say that splitting a group, the way it's communicated to group members is important. Right? Because it's not just like, hey, we don't want you to be a part of the group. It's for the overall health of the group's ministry and the groups moving forward. Right?

Yeah. You never go into, okay, the cool guys over here, the not so great. We always talked about, like, when we saw, when we had a group of six or it usually was, we got to seven, it was like, okay, we have enough to have four and three. We would, we would say something like, man, we just keep running out of time. My co leader and I would communicate that and ask the guys how they felt. And most of the time they said, we really feel pressured. And so it was like, well, what do you guys think about, you know, separating into two groups? And my co leader here will take half of you guys. And, and that was usually a process of like two or three weeks for them to kind of feel good about it. And then, and then it was like, yeah, let's do that. Okay.

Well, I know for some churches when we talk about splitting groups, they don't necessarily split into two groups, but they'll kind of function as two groups that still meet together. So in this scenario, what happens is, say you start with a group of six guys and it's running along and then another guy or two comes along that they need to get into a group now and there's really no other options. And to wait for the group you're currently leading to finish would be six, seven months away. So you incorporate those new people in and everyone can still do the group check in together. Because if a group is staying focused, reading what they wrote, not just ad libbing about their week, you can get through that group check in in a fairly decent amount of time and stick into that 40 minute opening window. And then the group meets as two separate groups for the discussion time. So that the guys that all started together, maybe they're up in pillar three, and then you have a couple of new guys that are back on pillar one. And so this is where the leader would likely go with the newer guys to help them get up to speed. While the guys that have already been in the group by that point, the co leader can lead that, or maybe the guys are at a place they're able to just kind of self lead one another. And so for the discussion time, you're in two separate groups and often this is at a church where they're in two classrooms side by side or something like that. And then everyone can come back together for the end to do a commitment to change and schedule some phone calls, that sort of thing. So it is a way that if you have kind of one group time and one main leader and you don't know how to start an entirely separate group, you Kind of keep them tracking together, but allow people to be on different lessons. And that just does remind you. One thing we don't recommend is that in one group you have guys on different lessons sharing from those different lessons. Because it just becomes. It becomes harder to build community when one guy is sharing answers from homework that another guy hasn't even looked at yet. And how do I not check out? And so much of our learning and growth comes from hearing what others have said about the same questions. And so that's why it is important to consider if we have people that need to get into a group or want to join, how can we incorporate them either into a group that maybe does two separate lesson times, or how do we become two groups? So primarily group split, oversize. I think that's something you want to consider because as we said in the first question, if you're routinely not having time for everyone to answer their questions, to share their homework, that's a problem because that really is what creates transformation. And so you don't ever want to be in a situation where you've got nine, 10 guys and you're either skipping lots of the questions because then that devalues their work, or where it's just taking you weeks and weeks to get through a lesson, because then going through the workbook is going to take you years. And it's just hard to maintain momentum and focus if it's taking that long to get through the material.

Yeah, so we've talked about this idea of co leaders and leaders in groups. You know, one of the questions we get a lot is how do I know who should lead a group? And I know there's a lot of factors that go into, you know, their sobriety and the season of life that they're in. What would you guys say is some real key indicators that someone within, in a. In a small group, that pure desire, small group, is ready to lead or is ready to start, you know, co leading.

I think the first thing that I tend to look for is just someone who's available and who wants to be involved. That was usually the first thing that I saw. You know, I had the opportunity to find a couple about three or four guys who are willing to lead, but just someone who's available and who's willing to take on the role of facilitator. I think those two things are a great starting point when looking for somebody.

When I look at a pure desire group, it's interesting because the model of group leaders may be in some ways the opposite of what we look for when you're trying to have a Bible study leader, that when someone leads a Bible study, they tend to be talkative, knowledgeable, and they can just kind of teach some of the scripture. And the Bible study can become this combination of teacher, student relationship. We're in a pure desire group. It is so essential that the leader is a good listener, that they're really there to facilitate other people talking and sharing. And so that takes a pretty humble person who's not trying to just air their own ideas, but really is trying to draw out from group members what's going on in their lives. So I think of a good listener, someone who's humble and really what I look for is self awareness, that they are at a point of view, they recognize their issues, they're not still blind to their patterns of relapse. They're not arrogant about or prideful that I've got this figured out and I don't really need this group, but I'm here to help you guys. So just that sense of they're in touch with their stuff because then if they're leading, they're going to lead out of that place of humility and self awareness and not feel like, oh, now that I'm a leader, I have to have it all together. And then obviously in a peer desire group you do want to look for someone that is because beginning to exhibit a track record of sobriety. So we say the idea would be that they've had six months or more without relapse because that's really showing that brain change is taking place in their life, not just a trying harder approach. And in some situations a church may not have any other co leader. You know, if you're just starting groups and you've got a leader who's healthy, you may not have anyone in the group that's at six months of sobriety. And so I think for a co leader to look for a guy that is, they're starting to take some of the right steps. Maybe they're struggling once in a while with relapse, but they're handling it appropriately by being honest, by taking steps to correct their behavior, to go through some natural consequences. So they learn when you see that happening and you look at that person and think, wow, they get it, they understand what this takes, well, then they're ready to start co leading. And then hopefully by the time they're ready to lead, they will have that six months of sobriety established.

So there's not the, there's not qualifications or education that we require from guys to be leaders, it's really just some track record of health and some self awareness and probably some time in a group would be nice before you tap a guy to lead.

Yeah. You know, Nick, when you were talking about that, exhibiting sobriety and also a track record of being vulnerable, one of the things that we recognized in my groups, it was really helpful. It wasn't just helpful, it was like necessary. Is that the, the co leader and the leader had to have a really good working safety plan in place. Like they knew if relapse happened, we weren't, we weren't going to sit here. And it kind of balances those things because you're not going to sit here and say, well, I'm never going to relapse again, so I'm a leader. Here we go. Because it just, you know, opposite of not being prideful and humble, but we all had a safety plan of like, as a leader, not just I should have one as a husband or, you know, one for myself if I'm single. What. What does this mean for me personally, but as a leader. There were elements of our safety plan that went into play. And one of the, one of the most basic ones was if I had a relapse, I'm not leading this week because. And it might be more than that too, depending on the, the, you know, the relapse. But at minimum this week I'm not leading because clearly I've missed something and my focus can't be on facilitating the group. My focus needs to be on, you know, how did I get to where I was at. There were clearly a whole bunch of steps and we, you know, we talked about that in the faster scale and the three circles podcasts, if you haven't heard those, definitely listen to those. But, but as leaders, I think it's so important to have that safety plan in place. So there's not that sense to go, okay, I'm going to group. I've had a rough week. I've made some poor choices. Maybe I shouldn't talk about that. Maybe I should lead the group. That's what's most important. It's like, no, no, no. We all know our plan. We're going to implement it.

Absolutely.

And nobody felt I had a bad week. I'm activating my safety plan. The rest of the leaders were like, cool, let's. Let's support him. Yeah.

That's something I really love about Pure Desire's approach to groups and how they're led. Is it. It's really not about a trained facilitator. Someone who's gone to a conference. I mean, we have conferences and we hope people do get trained so they can do even better, be more effective. But really the group leader is the one who's willing to let God use them and is there participating fully with the group. And so when you see someone that just, they're getting a few things in order in their life and they're starting to say, I just want to help other men or I want to, if it's a gal, I want to help other women, I want to use my story to encourage them, then you go, oh, that's a leader. And at the end of the day, pure desire, we defer to the local church because this is their ministry. And so that's the other thing to keep in mind is whatever a local church has in place for leadership, they should follow that. With group leaders, if they have some requirements of, you know, water baptism or being a member or whatever it is in their community, their context, that should apply to pure desire group leadership for their church requirements. But then from pure desire side, it's just the things we've been talking about. Are they humble, self aware, establishing some sobriety in their life. And in that case you usually find you have a large pool of people that qualify to be leaders.

That was, look, the pool and water and baptism. Nice. That was a nice. You just pulled all that stuff together. It was my group leaders. I tried to sprinkle them. I didn't believe in baptism from immersion.

Every church context is different.

I'm Pentecostal. We just lay hands on everybody.

Oh, there you go.

Perfect.

All right, so let's talk about this. Once you've identified potential leaders. A church maybe is starting to run some groups and they've now got this small team of people that are willing to lead or co lead. What does it look like to help develop those group leaders? What have you guys seen or used that help someone go from the place of just being a group member to having a vision to be a co leader or a leader?

I can tell you, in my experience, probably one of the most effective things I saw happen was our group leaders would meet a half hour before group. We would do a very quick check in. And it helped us also move the check in process along faster because we were already in that mindset. We were kind of working through our own things. And as a group leader, it's great to sort of pre sort that if you will, so that you can be very present, aware when other people, not that you're not going to learn Anything, you know, going into group and communicating again. But we would do a quick check in kind of, kind of gauge like, okay, am I able to not only think about my things that I'm working on this week, but also just be present for the guys or gals that are coming to group and you know, think about the lesson and where we're going. And the other thing we would do too is for frequently would introduce some other, some other curriculum. Like we would watch some YouTube videos from Brene Brown or we would watch some, you know, some of the Neurochemistry of addiction is a great DVD if you, if you haven't watched that. But just kind of reinforcing the idea of like we want to do some ongoing training, we want to do some ongoing connection sometimes too. We would do a, just, are you having any problems in group?

What's going on?

And newer leaders might be like, yeah, I've got this one guy that won't stop talking. You know, it's like, okay, well let's, let's talk through some good, yeah, problem solve how we can graciously help this guy recognize what is it I need to communicate? How do I listen to others? So it was a great place to make sure that it was a good check in to make sure the group health across all of the groups are good and that the leader was ready and prepared. Well.

And what's interesting about my, my experience with it was that I was, was the first person to bring pure desire to our church. So we didn't already have it existing. And so one of the things once I figured out, okay, I've tapped a couple of these guys and I had one guy in particular who I tapped to come help co lead was just, just come with me. Just, you know, he was going through conquer while I was going through it. But it was just kind of watch what I'm doing as I'm figuring out how to lead. And it was kind of like this, you know, the shadow program where he's kind of walking alongside and then giving him opportunities to facilitate so he gets comfortable in that role and in that position. And then now he's, you know, that guy's the group leader at the church. You know, after I left, he just actually, even while I was there, I just was like, bro, you're a lot better at this than I am, so just take it and like run. And then he's doing the same thing where he's pulling guys in and having them be a part of some of those leadership, you know, meetings. But then Also just letting guys experience what it's like to act as a group leader, even though they haven't taken that role on.

Yeah, I think it's really important how you treat your co leader that early on you want to be giving them parts of the meeting to run. And I think some of our, you know, classic leadership techniques that are in the church are helpful here that you think about, you know, the first week, maybe it's the faster scale. So the first week I do it, you watch and we talk about why I did some certain things. And then the second week, maybe we do it together. We kind of pair and go back and forth and then we talk about how that went. And then the third week you do it and I watch and we talk about how it went. And then the fourth week, maybe the co leaders just doing it, they're up and running. And so kind of that idea of giving them pieces and not just waiting, because I think sometimes our leadership model is I do it and you watch for the whole group. And then when it's over, it's like, okay, now it's your turn, your own. Yeah, they've never actually really had a chance to experience it. So if it's someone in your group that you're working with, making sure they have opportunities and then that you debrief together about what went well or what didn't. And when we talk about training leaders, we do want to make sure people are aware of the tools that Pure Desire has put in place because they're tremendously valuable. So for most every group, we have for seven pillars for men, betrayal and beyond for women, there's a leader's guide that they should pick up, especially for new leaders, because it really provides some tips. It gives some each pillar things to look for, points to emphasize. And that can be in some ways like a security blanket, a feeling of, okay, I've read through this, I feel more equipped. So that's a great tool. And then also we have our regional group leaders. So for every church, there is someone assigned to your area that's your first line of defense. That person who's they've probably been a group leader for five years or more. They've seen and heard a whole lot. And you can call or email them and say, hey, here's a situation going on. What have you done? What does Peer Desire recommend? And you can find a list of those on the website. So make sure you're connecting, whether you're a leader or a co leader or a developing leader that you're getting that connection to our regional group leaders. And then our biggest event is our Pure Desire University, which is all about helping churches really understand how to lead groups well, how to help men and women find freedom. And so we find that not only is it really powerful and effective for people that just want to understand sexual addiction better, but for those that are in the first stages of leading a group, I think they probably walk away with the most material because they say routinely to us, wow, this just developed my understanding of groups so much better. I see a lot more clearly how to lead, how to help. Because when we're going through our own journey, particularly that first time, and we're just trying to get our own life in order, we're not thinking about how's the group run, what's the structure, you know, the leader's taking care of that for us. We're just trying to, you know, save our lives in many cases. So when you start to think about leading, that Pure Desire University can be a really critical time to kind of get out of your own story and think about, okay, how do I help others in their story? So we host those all over the country. People can look on our website, PureDesire.org events and find a lot more about where those are at, how they could attend one. And I think that's a great way. You know, we have a lot of churches that bring a group leader and four or five co leaders or people they're trying to develop. And as you're there as a team, then the conversations you have in the in between times and at night and to and from that is group training time. So just to cast that vision, if you can get a group of your leaders to a university together, the way that that will just increase your learning, I think will be really exciting for you.

And we see lots of group leaders go to multiple university events because they're bringing new leaders each time. And what's cool is, you know, we hear stories that those group leaders who've been four, five, six times are getting just as much out of it, if not more, those those times.

So, you know, the great thing, if you go to a university, especially in your area, which, I mean, makes the most sense, some people travel a long ways because they're just like, I want to get educated.

And we thank you for that.

Thank you for that. But if you go to one your area, you're going to meet other people that are doing the same kind of work at local churches in your area, and likely your RGL will be at that event, which is really Cool. So you get to meet them face to face. And, um, but definitely check out the events page, which is. Sorry to correct, but it's forward slash events by my IT guy's coming out. Sorry, Nick, I just. That's a great. Don't want people to go backslash. You'll get 404 errors.

That's a great transition piece. So let's just move to the next question. Okay. So, guys, more often than not, as far as our perspective at Pure Desire, we communicate that we don't like to have the lead pastor, the head guy at a church, be the one who's leading the groups. We can get into that, the reasoning behind that. But what should the relationship. What does a healthy relationship look like between church staff, lead guy, and the peer desire group leaders that they have at the church? Yeah.

When we say that a lead pastor may not be the right person to lead the group, we really mean as the lead pastor. If they're like, well, I'm the spiritual leader here. Let me lead you guys through this group. That can be a challenging situation. Or if they're participating in the group as the leader, but it's their first time through and they're working on some issues in their own life that for most men or women, does create an awkward situation where it's like, he's still working on his stuff and I'm not sure what's going on, but he's supposed to be the pastor. So we have seen staff be effective at having churches at groups in their church. I mean, I did that for a number of years as a lead pastor, but I think a real key was that my first group experience was somewhere else where I had the freedom to let down my guard and kind of face my stuff. And had I tried to do that the first go around with the guys from my church, because there wasn't that culture established yet of being real and knowing how much I could share or couldn't share. I know if I'd have done that first group with my own church, I'd have been a lot more guarded. So I think those are some things to keep in mind, is that if it's a lead pastor that needs to face their own issues, that for their confidentiality and safety, that their first go around, they're able to be somewhere else, but then they might be the one to bring it back to their church because they are able to lead and establish a group. And then once you get a culture of grace established in your church, when you've been running groups for a while, we do have a number of churches that routinely have staff in them because it's already been created that, hey, it doesn't matter if you're a staff staff or a member or brand new to our church or never been to church in your life. Yeah, we want you in these groups. We know how effective they are and the, you know, the shame factors being dealt with. So it's not this big secret that people know there's groups and we help people. And in that case, a lot of associate staff at churches I'm working with, they're in groups and it's not a problem, but it just really is kind of considering as we're starting groups or where's the lead pastor at, do you just be careful not to inadvertently create real hurdles or roadblocks for people trying to go through a group and worry about their pastor at the same time?

I think the long term perspective too is really valuable because everybody has a role to play. I think about within our church. Our lead pastor has been through the Pure Desire program more than once, has led groups, has been in group himself, but, but right now that's really not where he's at in life and in his role. Our lead pastor's role now is that of a champion. I mean, he makes a point of when we have a conquer group, he's going to be talking about on Sunday morning, like, this is applicable to your life and this is about, you know, it's not about sex, it's about intimacy and it's not about addiction. It's about our inability to connect with others around us. And so if you, if you are struggling just like I was, and he shares his testimony, other people share their testimonies that he's worked into a sermon series. The lead pastor really is that champion of change in creating the culture of grace in a church and communicating on a large scale. This is what this group is about. So I think that role is really important. I think there's also another really important role and relationship is that of the group leaders to the church. And Nick really, I think communicated this well and started this idea at the beginning of this podcast is that we're not here to implement our program in your church. This is your church's program. And so whatever accountability is normal within your church for a leader to have has to happen within that pure desire leadership. I would say for myself, I wanted to meet with our life and family pastor at least four times a year to celebrate. This is what groups are doing. How do we fit within the model of the church. How do we communicate our message to everybody else so that we're right in step with where the church is going?

Yeah. And I think that support from the lead pastor, from the elder board is essential for this to happen. When I was leading groups, I wasn't the lead pastor, I was on staff as a pastor. But I found that I had the open door policy to go in and talk to my lead pastor, to talk to my elders about. Not specifics, not sharing specifics about what, what was going on in group, but some of the struggles we were having with the ministries. But then at the same time, like some of the high notes that we were seeing and people getting freedom and healing. So I think it's really important that you have really that rapport and that relationship, whether you're on staff or whether you're just a volunteer group leader, that you have the support and the covering of your lead pastor and your elders.

Absolutely. So, you know, just to come back to something you'd mentioned already, Nick, our rgls or our regional group leaders are a resource. Can you tell us more about that program? Like, you know, you mentioned how to get ahold of them, but what's the best way to communicate with them? What kind of questions are they able to answer? And then maybe another thing to touch on too is like, how, how could I become an rgl if I, if I feel like, man, I've been leading groups for a while, I've really invested this ministry. I'd love to help other people lead groups. What does that process look like?

Yeah, just to reiterate a couple things I mentioned, an RGL or regional group leader is someone who's been connected to pure desire for a while, primarily for their own healing first, but then helping lead groups and run the ministry in their church. They're just volunteers, they're not paid staff and they're located across the country. And we, we divide them by regions so that they have a number of churches they're working directly with, to coach, to train, to encourage. And so we would encourage, if you've not been in touch with your rgl, that, that there is no bad time to start communicating, communicating with your regional group leader. But particularly at the front end of starting the ministry. The regional group leader can be a tremendous resource to understand how to start the groups, what to watch for, what are mistakes to avoid, because they've probably made some of those mistakes themselves and can really help you out. We mentioned that they're on the website and so all their emails are listed there. And then as you reach out to them through email. I know Most of our RGLs also want to share a phone number, a way you can contact them in person if you want to ask questions that way. So it's really just starting out by making contact through an email and introducing yourself and starting the conversation so that they're aware of your groups. And if your groups are not on the website, that's another thing that the regional group leader may not even know you have groups, so that's a conversation they want to have with you. Because being on the website as a group isn't just about getting more people in your groups. We hear that a lot. Well, our groups are full. We wouldn't want to list them. Well, being listed on the website is more about an awareness of the rgl, being able to contact you of other churches, knowing that, hey, here's another church doing what we're doing. How can we network? So they'll probably talk to you about that. In terms of becoming a regional group leader, that just has a lot to do with your heart. If you want to help others, we have a pretty simple application process, and we do look for some experience, a track record of leading and establishing the ministry in your own church. But if you've been a part of that and want to say, man, we need to help more churches do this, in some sense, you're already functioning like a regional group leader. And I think that's what we look for is more who is something that's already doing the work of a regional group leader. And then let's appoint them to that position and give them more tools and access to more churches so that they can help even more people.

And I think that it's important to use the RGL as a sounding board. You don't always have to go to your lead pastor. You don't always have to go to your elder board. But a regional group leader is going to understand exactly what you're going through. They've experienced it. So using them as a sounding board and you can vent to them. That is their job, to be there as support and encouragement. So if you're listening to this and you're a frustrated group leader, reach out to an rgl. They'll listen to you for sure. Okay, so as we're talking about this, we really. The hope is that we're trying to get to the point where we know that we're setting ourselves up for success in groups, that our groups are going to grow, they're going to maintain, they're going to be Healthy. So what are some things or maybe even some practices that you guys see that end up like stunting the growth or hamstringing the ministry? What are some things that you can see kind of running into roadblocks?

One thing I see is when you have a church that there's only one or two people that lead groups. And sometimes it's that they fail to develop new leaders, or they're just so good at it that no one thinks they can lead it, like Bill or Susie or whoever. They're like, man, they are. They've been sober for several years. They have incredible insight into my life. Like, I could never do that. And so in those cases for that leader, too, that they're always the person leading groups, a lot of it's on them to say, there is nothing special about me that you can't also do in these groups and then empowering people to start leading. So I think that's one of the big things that I see.

I would say the complementary of groups. If you don't have women's groups or if you don't have guys groups, you'll get a guy who's, you know, most of the. Most of the men and women who come into our groups are married. And you'll get a guy who's getting sobriety, getting healing, and yet the family dynamic is exactly the same. Nothing has changed. He's starting to change, but no other changes are happening. And if that's going on, then, you know, the group kind of stalls. I think the. I think the other thing too is just that idea of awareness of groups, like making sure that more than once a year you're communicating to the general population of the church. These groups are available to you. Yeah.

And I think the opening up to the community saying, like, hey, it doesn't just have to be people from our church that are coming to our groups, that being able to be open and available to other people in the area to come who maybe don't have groups at their church. I think that that is something that can help expansion as well.

I think some other things we've observed that really stunt the growth of groups in a church is when they deviate from the recommended way of having groups. Yeah. There are so many reasons that a church thinks, oh, we don't need that, or we'll do it this way, and we just want people to understand we haven't created group structure to be regimented or to be controlling, but because it comes from years and years of understanding what doesn't work and watching Things go sideways. And so it's coming back to those group guidelines that are printed in the front of every workbook and asking, are we following these guidelines? And if not, why not? Because whatever you're not following will get replicated. And if you're not following a group guideline a little bit in one group, when you replicate a group, then it's really not going to get followed in the next group and so on. So those group guidelines, the group format of using the faster scale or group check in, then homework and then commitment to change, the phone calls, those aren't just, you know, side kind of practices like, oh, it's nice if you do, but okay if you don't. They're really essential to group health. And so again, we recognize that up front. It can be a lot for maybe a leader or a church to understand and to figure it all out, but it's worth going through that learning curve so that you run groups in a way that will be effective and not just get to be honest. A little bit of its laziness like, oh, that sounds like too much work. Let's just not do that. Well, if you make that choice, the groups aren't going to be as good. And so we want them to flourish and thrive. And we find that when churches are using the group guidelines, following the group format, that things really do work because they're there for good reason.

I think Dr. Ted says we pay the dumb tax. Like we've put in the work for this. So yeah. So just if you trust the process.

Well, we've talked through a lot of ways to develop, to grow a healthy group, to develop some leaders. So as we wrap up this episode, guys, what are some final encouragement you'd give to listeners that are, that are in the middle of starting groups or trying to train up leaders? How would you encourage them in developing their pure desire ministry?

I think one of the things to really be aware of is be aware of burnout. Be aware that you are not the only person that has to lead, but as a group leader, to be open, be honest, be vulnerable, and don't be afraid of the times that you screw up because they're gonna happen. This process has been proven. It's a two to five year process for you to get healthy. So don't expect yourself, because you're the leader, to be the All Star Captain America in the group. Because if you do, there's gonna just be this tons of pressure that you end up putting on yourself. And I'm speaking from personal experience where, you know When I made a mistake and relapsed while I was in group, I realized, wow, okay, I can actually just be with these guys. I don't have to be this superhero for them. I can just be who I am and experience the healing together. And so just being. Being aware of that when you're getting into it, that you don't have to.

Be Superman and be open to change. I think taking encouragement of other people's growth is so cool, Whether that's your group members or watching other group leaders that are doing stuff and you're like, man, that is so cool. Let that be your focus. And like you said, if you're the only one that's making a change in groups and being a positive influence in that group, that's just one group. It's not much change that's going to happen.

And I would give some encouragement to pastors or leaders that might be listening to say, this is a topic or an area that is tempting to say, okay, we dealt with that. Now let's move on and let those kind of run under the surface that when that happens, very often those groups just lose momentum. And the more you can keep it in front of people and let it become part of your story, let it become part of your testimony. It's amazing how many broken people you'll reach into their lives when you're really continuing to address sexual addiction and the struggles we have there. Because every human being is a sexual being and has questions and fears and concerns about what to do with issues there. And so when we continue to have testimonies up front, we continue to promote sexual health through being in a Conqueror series group or a men's group, women's group. And people hear it from up front. They hear different staff and leaders offering grace, saying change is possible. You know, sometimes in the first season where a church is talking about these groups, a lot of people are skeptical. They're like, yeah, right. If I tell them about my particular issue, I'm going to be blacklisted, or they'll kick me out or. And there are really a lot of people that are watching what you do. And so if you're in the first iteration of your groups and you maybe feel like you didn't get much of a response, there's not many people in them. You know, don't despise small beginnings because people are watching what happens to that group. And if that group, you know, it's confidential. So I'm not saying you can tell people all about it, but if you're able to stand up and say, we have a group meeting and God is working and it is so exciting. And these are people that are fully loved and embraced by this church. And they're just the first group. There's going to be many more to come. And when people hear you continue to talk about it, it starts to sink in that I think they really mean it. I think they really want to help. I think it really is safe to talk about sex or pornography or whatever in our church. So my encouragement to pastors and leaders is don't grow weary in doing good. Don't get discouraged. If it starts really small and if you've started well, don't let it fade into the background. Because as you continue to prioritize this, God will use it to shape your church in ways you never imagined. Because when you touch on this issue, you touch to the very core of what people are struggling with and who they are. And it's. It's the ministry of the church. So go at it. Let us help you. We're here to support and encourage and we'll watch together what God does through your church.

Amen to that. Brian, Nick. Thanks, guys, for this conversation. I think this is going to be really helpful for a lot of group leaders.

We hope so.

And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe and check out our website, PureDesire.org. also, you can follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. Once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to purity.