026 - Seven Pillars of Freedom (Pt. 1)

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Before we start the podcast today, we just wanted to let you know that today's episode will be part one of a two part series entitled seven Pillars of Freedom. Enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host as always, Nick Stumbo, Omaha.

Omaha.

And joining us today are Rich Moore and Brian Roberts. Thanks for being with us, guys.

Glad to be here.

It's good to be here.

Good to have you guys.

We are excited to have you guys here because today we're going to talk about the seven Pillars of Freedoms groups and the materials that we have to go with those groups. So Seven Pillars is one of the groups we have for men and it's our group specifically for men who are struggling with sexual addiction. And all four of us in this room right now have been through this material. So we're just hoping to bring really just some information if you've never heard of it before and then also maybe fill it out a little bit more for guys who have been in this group before. So let's just get going. Alrighty. So let's start with this. Rich, let me ask you, you are the international men's groups coordinator, so you get calls all the time from guys looking for material to get healthy. So the question to start is, what exactly is Seven Pillars of Freedom and where did it come from?

Yeah, the seven pillars of Freedom. In a nutshell, it's going to help men break break. Denial brings an understanding of sexual addiction, limits of damage and behavior, and it brings sobriety. As far as when it started, I believe it was 2008, right around there when Seven Pillars came out. Dr. Ted developed the pillars and formed and led a group of us called the Farm Club.

The Farm Club.

So we were. Yeah, so we were basically like the guinea pigs walking through the new, new material and nobody wanted to sit directly next to Ted or across from ted.

Avoid the eyes at all cost.

Yeah, we had about eight guys in that from around the Portland area. And then after that Farm Club, those eight guys all took it back to their churches and started leading after that.

So, yeah, so what we see is that it really is, it's resources and it's a, it's a weekly get together, it's a meeting, it's a group meeting each week for guys who are looking to get healthy, sexually you know, one.

Of the things too that I think is really great about the Seven Pillars and actually all of our materials since we produced Seven Pillars of Freedom is that it was based out of clinical research. So as Rich mentioned, it was developed by Ted. And this was right after he had gone through the certification to become what they now call a PSAP or a. A professional certified boy. Now he's a pastoral physician. Thank you. Too many letters. But anyways, he had taken what Dr. Carnes has been doing for 30 plus years. And the interesting thing is Dr. Carnes research was completely empirical. And then from the empirical evidence that he found, he created a clinical process. And Ted went through that and said, these are all biblical principles. These can just be translated into something that anyone in the church would understand. So not only is it biblically true, but it was also developed out of experience, helping a lot of people who are struggling with addiction, specifically sexual addiction.

One of the things I appreciate about the Seven Pillars is the way that it just keeps developing and improving because as we learn, as we get new research, there's portions that get added to the book. You know, I first went through with a workbook cover that was blue and now it's black. And the guys will tell me, oh, you should have gone through the workbook that was still loose leaf pages like we were building it as we went. And I think that's just reflective of the, the ministry approach of Pure Desire, that we didn't just write something 10 years ago and say, well, here it is. But we continue to learn and develop and try to put into Seven Pillars what are the very best practices to help men find freedom. And whether that means something stays or goes, we're okay with it. And so I've appreciated seeing the different iterations of the workbook as it goes along.

Yeah. And what we see to the way that our ministry really sets up is that this is, this is really going to be a long period of time. This is going to be a lot of work that you're putting into it. And this is where health really starts to take place for sure.

So I guess one of the big questions that a lot of listeners I would imagine have is, okay, well, there's seven Pillars, but there's all these other series that you guys have on addiction recovery or dealing with betrayal. Where does this fit into the puzzle? What would you guys say about Seven Pillars place in the offerings of Pure Desire and resources we have?

Well, our mission at Pure Desire is to come alongside the local church and to help them start groups to Start a healing ministry for men and women in their church and community. And so Seven Pillars is really the foundational element of that approach, because this is the material that men will go through to really find lasting freedom in their struggle with sexually compulsive behavior. So we've talked on this podcast and other places about the role of the Conquer series and church as watching that DVD set as a way to introduce the material and to get guys interested and willing to face their problem. But once you've got a core group of guys, and it may even be only a few guys at the beginning that are really willing to face this battle, then Seven Pillars is the material that they want to use to walk through. And so it really fits that niche of this is the core material for. For the men in your church. And then it's a companion to what we have for the women's side. For the spouses that have been hurt by their husband's addiction, we have betrayal and Beyond. And then for women having their own issues with love addiction or sex addiction, the eight Pillars of freedom. But this is really, in a sense, the curriculum that started it all. It's. It's what most churches will find they need first. And when they get a group of men going through it, that's what tends to spawn the women's groups and then teens groups, college groups, everything that comes out of it. But if you can get some of your men aligned around this material, then starting that ministry throughout the rest of the church becomes much, much easier.

Yeah, well, and something too, that we have said to, you know, men and women who are coming, let's say, you know, we're at a Pure Desire university event or, you know, people calling in and asking questions. You know, some of the. Some of the answers I've given really are that the Conquer series acts as an on ramp to our ministry. So it's really just a way to get up to speed, to start to have that understanding of really trauma and addiction and the neurochemistry behind it. But then Seven Pillars is really the freeway. It's really where you get to go into fourth, fifth, and sixth gear if you've got that kind of car that you get to go towards freedom at a higher speed and a higher rate. So you put in that work. So it fits in, really, where. This is the primary place that you find healing when you start going through the Seven Pillars, where Conquer really just kind of gets us up onto the platform so that we can start doing the work in the Pillars, you know.

Seven Pillars, when it first came out, you know, back in the day. And just like Nick talked about the changes in the development, along with that, we've seen tremendous growth in areas that we didn't see before because the material has been growing and along with that comes out the other materials that we have. And as pure desire is changing, the other materials are changing along with it. So you see an equal growth in the material.

Yeah.

So guys, let's talk a little bit on the practical side of what this group looks like. You know, maybe someone's listening to the podcast and they're just trying to figure out their, their journey, what it's going to look like. They're asking some questions of how hard is this going to be? So what type of commitment is needed to complete a seven pillars group? And both commitment in terms of longevity, you know, is it weeks, months, years, and then within a week itself? What kind of commitment level is needed for a guy to go through seven pillars effectively?

You know, when I was leading groups and especially when we were using the Conqueror series, we'd have a lot of guys that were coming out of the Conqueror series and saying, okay, I understand what sexual addiction is about and that's really the goal of the Conquer series is to give you the information. And I understand that now the seven Pillars of freedom is going to be the work that I need to do or the application to get moving. And what, you know, how much work is it like you were saying, Nick, and it's a lot. I would tell guys, you should plan four to five hours a week. And the way it breaks down is every week we're going to have a two hour meeting. And in that two hour meeting, per the 60, 40, 20 plan, which is in the Seven Pillars of Freedom workbook, it talks about our 20 minute check in and our. I'm sorry, our 40 minute check in, our 60 minutes of homework and our 20 minutes for what are we doing next week? Or our commitment to change. We have those two hours and then every other day of the week I encourage my guys, you need to be investing in this. And usually 20 minutes to a half hour investment is realistic. It might be I'm going to make a call which doesn't really take 20 minutes. That might be pretty quick, but I still have to evaluate my faster scale before I make that call. Might be I'm going to read my devotional that's in the work. Maybe I'm going to be reading my Pure Desire book that's also a part of the work. Maybe I've been doing my homework or evaluating my commitment to change and seeing where I'm at in that. The goal though, in any of our groups, that is a transformation group, is that we need to be daily investing so that we can sort of bring our focus back to life in restoration. Seldom do we ever live in restoration. More often we walk away from restoration. But we if we are in a daily process of saying, okay, I'm starting to trust my own understanding and not lean on God's, how do I get back to God's understanding? How do I get back to connecting with my group? That's that daily occurrence and doing work, you know, splitting up the work for the week and making your calls. That's really the tough part of the commitment. A lot of guys would do the two hours and maybe even spend a half hour or so on their homework. But it would usually happen, you know, like right after group or right before group. And so they'd spend most of the week not experiencing restoration or experiencing the process of getting back to restoration. And those guys are gonna have a tough time. The guys are gonna be most successful and gals for our betrayal and beyond groups and our eight pillars groups that are gonna be most successful are the ones that are not just coming to group for two hours, not just doing their homework, but they're daily investing at least a half hour a day. That's what we always recommend.

Yeah, it's definitely one of those things where the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.

Exactly.

That if you try to just get by and do the bare minimum, most of those guys find they're not changing and it's like, well, you're not really applying yourself. You know, I remember when I was meeting with Ted Roberts and he told me about group and that I needed to go to one and I was a pastor at the time and I was busy and he told me it was a two hour group meeting. And I remember thinking, what on earth could take two hours to talk about? And part of it was I was really in that traditional accountability group meeting kind of mindset where basically you show up with you guys, ask how it's going, did you mess up this week? What are you going to do different this week and pray for each minute. Yeah, it's like basically a check in. And I really didn't understand the depth this group was going to take me to. And when I got into a group and really watched it happen, where you know that that group check in of going through your faster scale and what's going on through the Week was so much more than just did you blow it or not? It was really looking at an emotional inventory, what's going on in your life. And I would so often sit and I remember early on thinking, oh, this is going to be so boring. But I'd listen to a guy talk about his week and it's like all these light bulbs would go on about my week and it's like, oh, I'm starting to see things. And then we do the homework and all the investment you've had to make on trying to figure out what's going on. And it just became so transformational because of the depth it went to. And so that would just be my encouragement if a guy's listening and thinking, I do not need a two hour a week group to talk about pornography or sex. Like, that's stupid. I totally can relate to where you're at. But if you will trust that process and go to that depth, you will find it to be so richly rewarding because that's what's needed to really experience life change.

Well, and something that I've heard a lot of people really on staff say is that if you spent any number of years looking at pornography and just rewiring your brain that way, it's going to take a long time for you to get healthy and to rewire your brain back to health. So you can't just expect the six or ten weeks through CONQUER series to fix it. You can't just expect it to be, you know, three months and you're out and you're done and you're, you're healthy. This really, the seven pillars could take anywhere from nine to 12 months. Like this could take a whole year of your life. And that's been my experience in groups is that it takes about a year and that's okay. Like I would rather have something be a lot of work and I know I'm gonna have to work really hard to make it happen rather than it just as this quick fix idea. Because there are a lot of quick fix things that the churches today really talk about and try to help people with that. Really, you don't find any sobriety through those things?

Well, really it's a mindset because you think about going to college and we understand culturally that to prepare yourself for a career, you might need to invest four or five or, you know, for some professions, eight or nine years of your life to prepare for something that will set you up the rest of your life to do that job. And so when we look at breaking free of the Struggle, we get caught up into the wrong mindset that just says, oh, if I just knew a couple tricks or tips, I'd be free. But you're talking about, as you said, Trevor, changing your brain, changing the way you've learned to do life. And so if we've spent 10, 20, 30 years developing this struggle, it shouldn't surprise us that we might need a year or two to reverse it and to really change it. Because we're not just trying to figure out how to manage the behavior or have it less often. What we talk about is being fully and finally free. And so I say to guys frequently, if it takes a year of your life, but at the end of that year, you're free and you know you're free, wouldn't that be worth it? And everyone, when you think about it from that mindset, you say, well, yeah, yeah, that would be worth it. And when we realize, well, that's what it takes, then maybe we get the right frame of mind to really go for it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think, you know, when you look at the commitment level, you know, when you ask a guy to commit, you know, it's a two to five year process right out the gate. Right. What I tell guys is, you know, you can go through the two to five year plan, but it's really a lifelong commitment. Because I can end a group in two years and be an experience freedom that I've never experienced.

Yeah.

And not be in a group anymore and not lead and not be a part of anything. But you're still going to get the same triggers and same roadblocks that come in your life. But you got to make a lifelong commitment. And when you do the process, when you do this the way it's intended and put a lot of effort into it, when you're out of group, those things will stick in your mind. So when you're going through life, you're gonna remember, oh, you're gonna know what to do.

Right.

So it's not just a two to five year, like Nick was saying. I mean, it's. It can be a lifelong commitment to the process. Because once you start group or stop group.

Yeah.

You know, temptation is gonna come seeking. You just have to be ready to deal with it.

Yeah. It would be awesome if, you know, the. If Satan was just like, okay, you went through group, I can't get to you anymore. But untouchable now that's not the case. Like, he's still coming after you. Because what better way to trip a guy up than to convince him he's free but then trip him up again and then it just, it's like hitting the refresh button on addiction and you know, what's going on in their life.

So, you know, the thing I realized, Rich, that relates to what you're talking about there is the fact that whether we're struggling with addiction or just self coping behaviors, ways of trusting ourself or relying on ourselves instead of relying on God and others, that's really the essence of this group is that I may not be in a pure desire group later on in life, but I certainly, after being in pure desire groups as long as I have been, I certainly don't want to be in a place where I don't have people next to me who can speak into my life who are saying that know me really well and saying, what's this? I don't know about that. Recently in my seven pillars group, I was just recognizing, you know, after the holidays, you know, there are some common things that we get tripped up when we're around family. And I, yeah, I asked a group member, I said, well, you know, if you aren't struggling with those or were there new ones you're struggling with? Because I was thinking about myself. You know, I don't, I don't struggle like I used to really struggle with food around the holidays. And now, now, now it looks a little different. Now I start to get sarcastic because I had to really be paying attention to that myself. And so I think that idea of I always want to be in a place where somebody can ask me those questions. And that only happens in a group environment when people really know you well. Yeah, yeah.

And that's a benefit of being in group is once you're done with group, what guys don't realize is they are, they have a built in almost kind of reward of being in group because when a guy comes into group, he may have one really close friend. Now in, in a two to five year process now he's got five to ten guys that know everything about him. And for myself, some of my best friends, the majority of the guys I hang out with are all pure desire guys now. Yeah, moving to the next question. We get this quite a bit when we have our, when we get our phone calls come in, you know, they're looking to establish seven pillars and how that fits into a church's ministry, whether it's a typical Bible study or accountability group. So Trevor, can you talk to us about that and the format compared to those, those types of studies?

Yeah. So really, I mean, Nick was kind of hitting on it earlier, that the idea of a Bible study, usually, especially with men, in regards to this kind of topic, it tends to be this binge purge group. So it's an accountability group where you come to group and you're like, how did I do this week? Oh, I messed up this guy this week, guys. Sorry. Like, okay, we'll pray for you, you know, and then maybe you have not to do it again, right? And then you maybe have sobriety for a few weeks, and then you come back, and then it's the same thing over and over and over again where this is gonna be a lot different, because it's not just sitting around a book or sitting around the bible. This is you're actively working to try to figure out what's at the core of your addiction, and you're really trying to figure out who you are in relation to the Lord. Like, really what you're doing is you're figuring out, how does your brain work? How has your family set you up, you know, in life and the culture and the atmosphere you've been a part of? So it's really not just a Bible study. It's coming together and learning about yourself with other men. And part of that, too, Rich, what you were talking about is that in an accountability group, we usually only show what we want to show, but this material almost forces you to dig deeper. And what you end up with is a group of guys who know all your deepest, darkest, dirtiest secrets that you never thought you'd tell anybody in the church. And then what you find is that those guys don't disown you or avoid you anymore. They actually love you more and still stick it out with you. And when that happens, you're experiencing biblical community, sometimes for the first time.

One, it's recognizing that the group meeting itself is only half the equation. You know, Brian was talking about this in terms of the work we do outside the group, that your investment in the homework, in the phone calls, in your faster scale, you know, keeping track of where you're at emotionally, that's just as important, if not more important, than what happens in the group. And so I love the feeling, when you're doing it right, that you come to group and the group is kind of the outcome of what I've already been doing during the week, as opposed to just being this one night a week where I go and focus in and then kind of forget about it for the next six weeks.

You don't compartmentalize it.

It is your life, and that's what Honestly, a lot of Bible studies accountability groups are. It's like, well, what we do happens in group. And after group's over, well, I kind of go back to my routines. And this is really about being on a journey of healing and wholeness that happens all week long. And the group just becomes the highlight of sharing what's been happening during the week.

You know, one of the things, too, that Trevor, you touched on too, is this idea of self discovery. And I always encourage group leaders, make sure that you're facilitating. I always get nervous when a group leader says, oh, yeah, I teach a pure desire group. It's like, whoa, hold on a second. Do you really. Let's not do that. And I mean, I usually assume that they don't mean teach in the sense that a lot of times we might teach a Bible study or there's a leader who's kind of pointing out some major pieces within the text. But in a pure desire group, really, that leadership role is about just making sure those group guidelines are followed. Everybody's on track. If we're teaching, we eliminate the ability for people to have self discovery. We're more dictating. Okay, this is how you do this, and that's how you do that. And it's great if people have questions and you're answering questions. But I think it's always really important to make sure that people are. Like you said, Nick, people are doing that work during the week. And the group experience is not a lecture or dissemination of information. It is an accumulation of people's weeks. This is how it's developed, and this is how we are developed. This is how I'm developing.

Yeah. I think when you look at the typical Bible study or an accountability group, you can have guys from kind of all walks of life in regards to what they're struggling with. You know, seven pillars group is every guy in there is battling with sexual addiction. So you know what you're gonna get when you walk in the door. And, you know, when you go through the material, everybody's talking about the same question. They're answering the same question. They have this. They're talking about, you know, their behaviors or faster scale, whatever. So it's. It's common between the five or six guys that are in group. You know, in a Bible study, you may go around and everybody's got something different that they're struggling with. This is, you know, everybody's on the same page. Yeah.

So I'm. I'm thinking right now, for someone who's listening to this, they're probably Thinking, you know, these guys have talked a lot about the process and where this came from. And my big focus right now, if I'm listening to this podcast and wanting to be in a Seven Pillars group, is how's this going to fix sex or porn addiction? Like, because that's. That's my focus. And so what would you guys say? How. How specifically does the Seven Pillars group address the issue of sexual addiction or porn addiction?

You know, being in Group for over 20 years, I've seen the material develop a lot. And the one thing I've got out of it that I feel is really the biggest part in the last few years is really the process of the brain and learning how the brain works. And that's a key thing, is when we can understand how to. And what it takes to renew our mind in that process. And that's a big key. You know, there's a ton of great exercises in the Pillars, and I think the one thing that is great is when we can finally understand where it all started. We can truly start the process of change. You can't fix something if you don't know where it started. So to be able to go to the wound, right to the wound, and start from there, it's a game changer. It brings us to the core or the root of the issue. So the toughest part is just getting to that point to where you. The groups come. That's where the groups come in, because you can't do it alone.

Well, and the thing too, that we tend to do, I feel like really a lot in the church is we address the action of the hands and less about the heart. Even though we know that the heart is where everything comes from. Really what we try to change is we try to change outwardly first rather than inwardly. And I think that what this really does is it helps you see what's going on inside. And once the inside changes, then you're able to see your hands change, you know, like that it takes into account the type of family of origin that you grew up in, the culture, the atmosphere, the lies that you have been taught through the world that you grew up in, whether it's, you know, through trauma or big experiences in life. And then really, it helps you evaluate where other areas too, that I'm numbing out. I'm trying to go and avoid all this pain and junk and mess in my life. And so it really. It's a. It's a comprehensive look, really, at my entire life, starting with the inside me.

Another thing I think to emphasize, because Maybe someone's listening to this. Thinking man, the Seven Pillars Workbook sounds great. I'll just get one of those. I'll work through it by myself. The community element of being with other guys and sharing with them things that maybe you've never shared with anyone else. And that doesn't mean everyone has to have deep, dark secrets. It just means the tape recorder you've got in your brain about who you are and your value. And when you start to say that out loud to other men and you hear theirs, there's something that happens in community that you cannot replicate going through the material alone. We talk a lot about that. We have been wounded in relationships, so we have to be healed in relationships. And when we have the ability to trust other men with our whole story, that's a big part of what heals us. So the Seven Pillars material is great and it's crucial, but it cannot be done in isolation. The Seven Pillars group is just as essential as the material itself.

Yeah.

You become this band of brothers.

So, you know, it's a great TV show, by the way.

Yeah.

And what. What it does is it allows these guys in your group to really carry you through your junk when you can't do it by yourself.

Yeah.

And that's the biggest thing, you know, just like Nick said, wounded in community, and we're healed in community and. And being in groups for over 20 years. I mean, I wouldn't be here today without, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of guys that I've been in group with over the years.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast, and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to purity.

Sam.