027 - Seven Pillars of Freedom (Pt. 2)

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Before we start the podcast today, we just wanted to let you know that today's episode will be part two of a two part series entitled seven Pillars of Freedom. Enjoy the podcast. Well, guys, we're still kind of on this, this feel of the detail oriented side, so let me just ask this, and this could be a really long answer, so let's try to keep it a little more brief. But what are the actual seven pillars in the seven Pillars of Freedom that we find in the group material?

Good question, Trevor. I think it's important to emphasize first that they are pillars and not steps. A lot of people listening might be familiar with 12 steps and those approaches which, which have a lot of value, but they really are based on get started on step one and don't go to step two until you've done step one. The pillars are a little different in that we try to help someone. See, these aren't steps that you have to go through to get to the next. There are seven pillars that are all needed to support a healthy lifestyle of freedom. So if you jump into a group that's on pillar three, that's okay because you need that pillar. And you don't necessarily have to get through the first two to find health in the third pillar. But you do want to, once you get to the end of the group, loop back through so that you get pillars one and two as well. So the seven pillars, which have again come out of a lot of the work of Patrick Carnes and then been laid over a biblical foundation, start with number one is breaking through denial. And this is where guys really help to understand how have I learned to lie to others and deceive them about my behavior. But maybe more significantly, where have I learned to lie to myself? Because in order to lie to someone else, I have to lie to myself first. And so breaking through that denial and understanding the significance and the weight of this problem is what the first pillar is about. In the second pillar, we really dive into understanding the nature of sexual addiction. Helping us see that it's not just a guy thing. It's not just, you know, that there's pretty women that I'm attracted to, but that it's become a part of my mental framework and how I deal with pain in my life. And it's become a brain problem as much as it's become a behavior problem. Then the third pillar is about surrendering to the process. And this is where as guys we really start to identify what can I control and what can't I control. What is mine to work on, which is primarily me and my reactions and my emotions and my behaviors and. And what can't I control and that's others and the world around me and being real clear about where do I need to focus my work. The fourth pillar, then we talk about limiting damage from behavior. And this is where we really begin to understand our rituals. We see the cycle that we go through and understand that victory isn't about at the end of our cycle going somewhere different. Victory is about changing the cycle when it starts. And so when men start to see that, that's a real game changer. And then in this pillar, we also see the ways that our behavior has wounded others. Because when we're in sexually compulsive behavior or sexual addiction, it's become so self centered that we often don't think there's any victims. And there are. And it's in our relationships or with our children in our marriages. And we just want to understand the way that our behavior, even if we haven't done something specifically to someone, to see that our behavior still has caused damage. And how do we begin to change that pattern? In the fifth pillar, we're establishing sobriety. This is where we really put the wheels on the vehicle and get some traction. We're going to understand our arousal template and see what it is that triggers us and then how to have an effective game plan so that our triggers don't send us down that same old path, but send us instead towards health and community. The sixth pillar is a really significant one because this is where we get into the battle of the mind about emotional healing and the those wounds that we talked about earlier, really defining what they are and what kind of steps need to happen for them to change the impact they have on our lives. We can't change our past. What we're going to do is change the way it. What we're going to do is change the way that it's impacting our present and our future and learn not to be driven by those things. And then in the final pillar is all about developing and implementing a spiritual growth plan. And this is really about the relationships in our life. How do we establish health in our marriages if we're married with our children or with our families if we're single, what does it look like to start to be honest and disclose our past sexual history in appropriate ways and to heal and restore those relationships so that they can move forward now that we're moving forward in health. And so those seven pillars, hopefully as listeners hear that, they can see the ways they all connect and are a part of a healthy foundation for a lifestyle of freedom.

Yeah, I love the idea that they aren't a set of steps like do this, do this, do this. Because as we've talked about, you know, this is a two to five year process. And frequently for most people, that process includes leading a group. And, you know, I know for myself, when I've been through the seven pillars again and again, I find new things. And, you know, Dr. Carnes and Ted both refer to these seven items as, when these are solidly in place, then relapse goes away. And I think for us as Christians, we should always be redefining relapse because there's always something I'm going to want to lean on to cope with life. And so a lot of times the answers to these seven pillars, like, what am I denying that's happening? What new thing do I need to accept that's really God's reality and not my reality? Or what are, what are the ways that I'm not really surrendering to this process of healing on an ongoing basis? And the answers are different each time. And so I love the fact that the presence of these seven pillars in our lives, not the fact I've completed each one and got it signed off, but the presence of ongoing implementation in our lives. These seven things, if you keep putting them in your life, you're going to see growth, you're going to see transformation, and ultimately you'll see sobriety. But the sobriety is a result of that growth and transformation.

Well, and with, with what you're saying too, Brian, the idea of you have different ways to numb out. Like, it's sometimes it feels like whack a mole a little bit, where maybe you've dealt with sexual addiction and you're finding freedom there, but then like Netflix pops up or social media or food, you know. And recently, you know, my experience has been reading like I found this new found love for reading novels and stories and I found that I'm wanting to read more than I'm wanting to address reality or my life or my wife. Still isolation, like, and, but that is, it's still. So I'm so, you know, in my group, we were talking about this the other day that we need to redefine relapse. That whole idea of understanding in any way that I am numbing out, any way that I'm avoiding reality and trying to go into a fantasy world. Where I don't have to deal with my issues that can be defined as relapse because I'm trying to numb out. I'm trying to avoid and I'm trying to medicate what's going on in my life. So it's just interesting that it's not just about avoiding porn and masturbating. It's anything.

Well, for those who work in ministry, I mean, just to take a chapter from the New Testament with the Pharisees, how many of us in ministry have isolated from people through ministry?

I'm raising my hands.

I mean, it's like, yeah, everybody's got their hand up in this room because ultimately we find ourselves in that place. It's like, you know, we can turn just about anything into an escape from. From connecting with those that have input into our lives and who really know us.

Yeah, coffee's not numbing out. Just so everybody knows. Coffee is not a way to numb out. Coffee is perfectly acceptable.

Well, my wife said my caffeine intake went way up when I started going through group. You know, we all need something.

It's.

I had a guy in group say it once that it's not whether or not we cope, it's what we cope with. And is it a healthy coping mechanism or unhealthy? Because really, we need. We need ways to deal with stress, to deal with pain, to deal with discomfort. But the question is, is it moving me towards God and others or away from them? And so if you're using coffee instead of pornography, well, you're probably making a step in the right direction.

It's a gateway drug out.

Then you can identify, okay, maybe I should go from eight cups of coffee down to two. And one thing at a time.

If you're drinking tea, we'll pray for you, because then you've gone way too far.

You've gone too far. Take a step back.

Well, let's talk about some of the best practices of groups and what makes them effective. How do. How often do groups meet? How many guys should be in a group? Let's just talk some of those practical details of what makes for an effective group. For seven pillars, sure.

So when I've talked to group leaders or asking a question, you know, how many. How many guys should I have in the group? We will typically say four to six is a really good number. If you have three, that's okay. But if you lose someone now, you're just you and your buddy, and that. That becomes a lot more challenging. Have a lot less input.

4.

4 is a hard to maintain momentum.

Absolutely. Yeah. And so four is a. Is a great number as a minimum, where you have a lot of input, good momentum. If you lose somebody, we can maybe merge two groups together. If you have multiple groups at your church and there's still a lot of room to work with, and if you get much beyond six, you. You offer the opportunity for people to hide, and addicts like to do that. And they'll. Oh, darn, I. I'll go last. And we ran out of time.

Yeah.

So, you know, we don't want to give an opportunity. We want to be consistent with our two hours, but we want to give an opportunity for someone to say, there wasn't enough time for me to share or feel like if I really needed some help, there wasn't time to ask questions. So that's a really good group range. And as far as the frequency, we encourage our groups to meet weekly, and that way there's a good consistency to it. Um, with the number of lessons you have, it should take a little over a half a year to get through. And however, you may have some weeks that you can't meet for if a lot of people are going on vacation or they're a holiday, and that's fine. We still recommend, though, that guys are checking in. They're still, you know, doing their faster scale, writing their journal, making their calls. Those are really good things to have happening.

Well, some of my groups, too, would take a couple weeks to go through one of the lessons just based on what was going on. If, you know, if we get through. Because sometimes the homework has multiple layers. And so if you're, you know, like just. I recently went through one where you're drawing out your road of sexual addiction. And then the second part is to ride out your. Your road to sexual freedom. And maybe only the guys, like, we only have time to talk about the road to sexual addiction, and we save the road to freedom till next week. So that. That's not. You don't want to continue to do that maybe every week, but sometimes you find in conversation and with different things that. That ends up happening.

Yeah, there's. There's. There are some long lessons, and I just encourage a guy if it takes one, two, three weeks. I mean, I'm not going to go tell a guy or a group, especially in the. The 10 most traumatic times, I think is what pillar three, lesson one or whatever that, well, we got to do it this week. That is very hard for some guys to get through in even two weeks. I mean, sometimes we've had A guy, just one guy, walk through his 10 most traumatic because it is tough. And I think when you allow the group to kind of function like that on those long lessons that are pretty deep, it's really a healthy thing because you can get a lot of input. And so the group will go into a year or sometimes longer.

On the other hand, you do want to make sure you're staying on track. So we will occasionally hear from groups that are spending years getting. Getting through the pillars one time. And if you find that every lesson is taking you multiple weeks, it's probably because you're allowing way too many rabbit trails and letting people just kind of shoot the breeze. And even something like those 10 most traumatic moments, I think it's helpful to occasionally say to guys, hey, can you read what you wrote? Because we just start to spin stories and take a lot of time. So I'm agreeing with you, Rich, that sometimes it's necessary. And as a leader, you kind of need to try to feel that out.

But.

But at other times, you recognize, boy, this guy's taken 20 minutes to share something that should be taking five because he's just ad libbing. So I'll interject quite often say, could you stick to what you wrote because you want to keep progressing through the material. Because I think that keeps people the momentum and keeps them changing when they know that, okay, this week was lesson one. Next week's lesson two. We're progressing, we're making progress, and you don't want to get bogged down every week and that some guy's story takes an hour. And, well, I guess we'll be on this lesson again next week. And then there's kind of a balance there that some weeks there's just too much material to get through in a week. But more often than not, it's going to be a lesson a week, and you just keep moving through, and that keeps the group motivated.

Don't you call that guy a hijack Harry. Yeah, Hijack Harry. Every group's got a hijack Harry. Some guy that wants to hijack Harry.

It's so hard to jump in and say, hey, can you stick to what you wrote? But the rest of the group wants you to do that. Because everyone, you know, you start to see that when someone, that guy, Hijack Harry starts sharing. Everyone else is rolling their eyes and like, oh, boy, here we go. It's gonna be 20 minutes of the same story we've heard four times now. And so when you say, hey, can you read what you wrote? It actually helps honor the person's homework during the week. And that's what you want to reemphasize is this isn't just a place to come and vent. This is a place to come and share the work that you've already been doing. And so if a guy didn't write much, he needs just be honest. I didn't write much here. Okay, let's go to the next person. And then during the week, that person hijack Harry. He'll be encouraged that I need to, if I want to say it, I actually need to write it. And he's going to get a lot more concise and focused and that's actually going to help him because he's going to learn to tell his story in new ways without just doing the same old ad libbing he's used to doing.

You know, one of the great tools is, we've talked about that this material has developed that's entered the seven pillars. And most of our other materials is the journal. And the piece that I find so helpful in keeping that group on time is that check in. Like make sure if you're leading a seven pillars group, everybody's got a journal, everybody's doing their check in because that check in can slim down the group. You know, faster scale and commitments change check in time immensely. We, before we had the journal and Rich, I remember you and I were in a group and we used to always, we had a, we had a phrase we'd tell people like that's an interesting story, but does it have to do with your faster scale? Because somebody was talking about their fishing trip or it was like somehow is eventually going to get to their emotional health. But there were a lot of details that nobody needed to know. Whereas like Nick, you're saying let's just read what we wrote. And when we have the everybody's got a journal, that really helps too because we've taken all of their devotional time, all of their Pure Desire reading, all of their commitment to change and their faster scale and slimmed it down to one page they can read. And that shouldn't take more than five minutes.

Yeah. And that leads us into the next question. And Trevor, can you talk about this? We have many great materials here at Pure Desire, but when, when a guy is calling in and wants to get in a group, can you talk about the material he's going to need for that group?

All of our store buy everything. No. Yeah.

Great discounts for volume.

Well, here's, here's what's funny. So you know, we've gotten to the point now where if you go to the store on our website, you'll see that seven Pillars is a kit. And it's always, always been encouraged to buy in a kit. But we find some people, you know, you know, just buy individual pieces of it and think that that's it. So we really want to emphasize right now that it's important to buy the entire kit. And what comes with the kit is a seven Pillars workbook, which has the seven pillars in it. And it has really. It's all of your. It's where you do the work. That's why we call it a workbook. We're so smart in that way. But then also, the partner thing there is really the journal. So the journal, you've got your weekly check in, you've got your commitment to change, you've got the faster scale, and you've got your devotional in there. And that stuff really has to be tied into the homework. Like, this stuff is done intentionally where those are supposed to partner together and be married together each week as you're going through it. And this really, you know, it encourages guys to be in the workbook and the journal every single week, both of them at the same time. And then also it comes with the book Pure Desire, which really started it all by Ted Roberts. And this is going to be a companion as well, that you're reading through this. And so really, those are the three pieces that we see to the group material.

Okay, so a lot of times when churches are starting up their seven pillars or eight Pillars groups or any of the Pure Desire restoration groups, one of the questions that we get is, okay, I need people to facilitate and lead these groups. What are the qualifications of a group leader? So what would you guys say, you know, in groups that you've led, that you want to see that a group leader has in their. Their tool belt?

That's a great question, Brian, because for a lot of people, the word leadership or leading can feel like a really heavy mantle. And a lot of guys are like, well, I'm not a leader. I can't lead. But we really see, and we've used the word already in this podcast, that someone leading a seven pillars group is a facilitator more than they are a teacher, that they're there to keep the group on track, to remind the group of the best practices and what the group guidelines are. You know, to ask a guy, are you sticking to what you wrote?

But.

But they don't have to have any particular skill set or expertise or additional training. They don't have to, you know, be flown to some eight day conference. Okay, this is how you use the material. The best training a leader can have is personal experience. So that's the first thing we look at is how could someone get the experience for themselves so that then they're walking other men through what they've experienced in their own life. So for a lot of guys, that might mean going through a group first at your church. If your church already has groups, diving in, going through it for yourself. Even if you feel like, well, my struggle is not that bad, but I really want to help other men, well, go through the process for yourself first and that's what will equip you. For other men, that means finding a church in their local area. And that was my story, that I drove half an hour every week to attend a group. And even though it wasn't my own community, it became an incredible experience and the friendships that developed there and, and then I was able, after having gone through a group in that church, to bring it back to my church and start groups. So that's another option. Someone might also look into being a part of an online group as a way to get the experience and then take it back to their church. Or it could even be in their own church that there's one or two other men that they're like, we need to do this. And I'm still struggling myself, but let's walk through it together, just a couple of us, maybe over coffee once a week. And having had that experience will be what equips them best. One other resource we do have is a leader's guide. So if someone's going through being a group leader for the first time, it's great to have that leader's guide because it gives them for each pillar, kind of some of the highlights to look for. The main ideas, tips for keeping your group effective and on track. So if it's your first time leading, I really encourage a guy to have the leader's guide. But really, again, it's back to that idea that what equips you is your own story. And so if you're experiencing transformation, if you're walking through a group, you're prepared and it's totally normal if you feel unprepared at the beginning. Because I remember when I was about to lead my first group, I said to Ted Roberts, I said, well, I don't feel ready to help other men. Like, do I need more training? He's like, your training is your life. Just tell guys what you've been doing. Talk about what you've been learning and watch it happen in their lives. And it was true. We opened up the book, we said, what did you learn this week? What did you write down? And it started to change lives. And so that would be my encouragement if someone is thinking about leading. Feels like I'm not a leader. Yeah, I think everyone feels that way. You don't have to be a quote unquote leader. You just have to be someone with a heart to help others that's willing to facilitate a group. And if you're ready to do that, you can lead.

Yeah. So I found myself in a situation where there weren't any groups around the area. And so, Rich, I called you like once or twice a week. It was, I mean, I'm sure, pretty sure you started to block my number a little bit because I was calling you so much and texting you so much. But I found myself understanding an awesome piece of what our ministry does. And is that the. That we walk alongside churches and group leaders as they're going through this. And Rich, you played a huge role in that for me.

Yeah.

You know, the one piece that we can add to that is our regional leaders, the men's and women's regional leaders.

Over there, the rgls.

The rgls, they are key to what we do. They're really our hands extended out of the office here, and we train and we develop them, we work with them, and they take the best practices. Everything that we do here, they basically reciprocate out in, in the field, so to speak. And so they're available for, for the churches and group leaders in their particular region. And they are going to be able to walk alongside somebody and really mentor them and help develop them. And it takes a lot of stress off a church where you. It could be a, you know, you have the pastor or assistant pastor where they're already busy, and then we come alongside a group, will register their church with us, and they'll have their group on our website. We assign a regional leader and we walk alongside them and help them. And then what it does is it really helps develop a healthy ministry in the church.

So, Rich, it almost sounds like if I'm a pastor or a church leader, someone who's wanting to start a pure desire group in my church, there's nothing nearby and I want to get something going. Like one of my first steps should be go to pure desire.org, look up the RGL in my area, give them a call.

Yeah, that, that could be. Yeah, that would be the first Step is talking with them and then also talking with Ashley and I. And then, because we have areas that don't have regional leaders. So if you go on the map and there isn't a regional leader, that.

Doesn'T mean you're out of luck.

Oh, dang it.

Now I can't do pure desire.

And then. And then together we will. We will help develop that ministry and in the church for them.

Nice. And you're referring to Ashley Jamison, who's the women's groups coordinator, and she's been on the podcast a couple times.

Yes.

You know, one other thing, too, I think about when I'm thinking about churches looking at this, starting a seven Pillars group that is really important is that the church really is carrying this ministry. We're not implanting pure desire into your church and indoctrinating your church with pure desire. We are a resource for the church, and we really want to see the church own this ministry and make it the their own. Their own process for people getting free. And so one of the things I always encourage, too, with group leaders is you've got to have accountability with your church leadership. This. This group should not be like, oh, we use the room and we meet, and it's not really a part of the church. This is part of the church. This is what changes and develops and grows the church. I was recently reading Nick's latest book, Safe, which is about how do we create a culture of grace? And that's actually exactly what the interconnection with pure desire groups and your church does. But there has to be accountability with leadership. So I always tell group leaders, like, make sure you're talking to your community life pastor or whoever's in charge of small groups at your church at least once a quarter, and you're telling them what's going on and asking them, like, is there something we should be doing or something we should know about to make sure we're in line and in step with where the church is going.

Yeah. And I think something that's important to say, too, is that what you'll find is that this material really is discipleship modeled. So you're going to find that men are meeting together, they're pouring into each other, they're discipling each other mutually. And then when those guys become leaders and start pouring into other groups, what we see is an actual picture of biblical community and discipleship. So you see men pouring into other men's lives, helping them find not just sexual health, because that's not really what we're doing. Only focused on here is we're focused on the whole person. We're focused on you emotionally, spiritually, physically, and sexually. And so what you find out is that this will might even become the discipleship model in your church when it comes to really finding health and creating that culture of grace in your church. So, guys, we've talked a lot about Seven Pillars already. This is great. We hope that, you know, anybody listening can really find this information helpful, whether you've been through it or not. We end the episodes really the same way every week. And so I just want to kind of open it up to you guys. If there's someone listening who is maybe in the midst of addiction or knows that this is a problem at their church and wants to help, and they're considering Pure desire, and they're considering seven Pillars. What encouragements, what tips, what words would you say to those people?

I guess my first response would be, you know, especially if someone is just learning about pure desire, Seven Pillars is one piece of the puzzle. We have betrayal groups. We have addiction groups for men, addiction groups for women. We have healthy sexuality groups for couples, married couples, and for teens who are trying to understand God's design for sexuality and how we carry that out. So it's one piece of the puzzle, and it's a great place to start. Maybe it's not where you start. Maybe you start with one of the other groups, but for any one of the Pure Desire groups to be effective, eventually you've got to have it in your game plan that you're going to be doing as many of these groups as possible. Because addiction is not just the addict. It is a. It's a. It's a family systems problem or a relational problem, an isolation problem. So every person that that addict is connected to in relationship, there's. There's some dysfunction going on, and those people are likely to need help as well. So, you know, maybe this is like what you can start with today, the seven Pillars, but look past that too. Think about what can we do after this and how can we incorporate more people in our church, body and community to be involved, and, you know, a great way to do that too. And to learn more about that is to going to one of our Pure Desire universities. We have these events across the United States. I know you guys have talked about in other podcasts, but I always encourage people. Go to our website, look at the events page, see if there's one in your area in the next year ahead. Even if you've been one before, it's always great to go again and drag some leaders with you that haven't been before and allow them to experience, you know, how do we do this, this whole thing as a church, this whole restoration process of pure desire as a church.

Yeah. When a guy calls in and we're his first contact or a gal calls and talks to Ashley and we're the first contact for somebody looking for a group, you know, we're working with, we're talking with broken men and women. And for me, I take it pretty personal. I'll spend some time with him on the phone and develop a relationship with him and instead of just saying, hey, I need a group, oh yeah, I can put you in this group over in this city. You know, I want to take a little bit of time because he's finally reaching out to somebody for the first time. So to build that relationship and to help him understand that, hey, this is probably going to be the most difficult fight you'll ever have in your life. But it's, it's worth every bit of the freedom that you're gonna, that you're gonna experience. And then sometimes in that I will share a little bit of my story with them, depending on how the conversation goes and to let them know that the freedom that I've experienced over the last 20 years is the same thing that they can experience. So for them to pick up the call initially just to look for help is huge. It's like the first phone call in group. When we say for guys to make a phone call in group where they're straight, stressing about calling for accountability, they're experiencing the same thing, just looking for help right off, right out the beginning.

Yeah.

Relationship, that's good.

Yeah.

I think the biggest encouragement I would give Trevor here at the end is to trust the process. So maybe someone's listening to this and hearing things like a two hour group meeting, homework, telling other guys about all my stuff. Nine or ten month process. And it just can be overwhelming. And we've got all these reasons and excuses why I don't need that and it's not worth it. You're listening to four men and we could bring in hundreds and thousands of other men to say this works, it's effective and it's worth it. And chances are if you're listening, you've tried a whole lot of other things to get free and it hasn't worked. So my encouragement to you would be trust the process, find a group, get in and engage. And I can tell you from this side of the experience, you won't regret it. But if you choose not to trust the process and continue to manage your own recovery and think, I can do it my own way and I've got better ideas, chances are you'll be in the same place years from now thinking, I wish I would have done seven Pillars and trusted the process. So I know you've got a lot of objections or reasons not to or why you think it doesn't take that much time, but trust the process and see what God does.

Yeah, guys, this was great. I think most people who either have had experience with Pure Desire and know what seven Pillars is, or you have no idea this is your first experience. I think this information is really, really helpful. So we hope that regardless of where you're at on that scale, whether you've been through group 20 times, you know, maybe Rich, you know, like Rich, or maybe you've only been through once, or maybe not at all, we just hope that this was beneficial for you. And really what we want you to know is that there is hope available, that there is hope out there and that we're here to help you. This material has helped all of us sitting here find freedom. And so this stuff really does work. So if you want more information on seven Pillars, we just tell you to check out our store on our website and that's PureDesire.org seven pillars. That's spelled out seven pillars. You'll find the seven pillars bundle, including the workbook journal and a copy of Pure Desire by Ted Roberts. And also, if you want more information on our groups and group material, give Rich a call and his number is 503-489-0246. Or you can just email him@richardesire.org. rich, again is our international Groups coordinator. So he's here to see, he's here to help. And so please don't hesitate to reach out. Again, guys, thanks for sitting down and taking time to do this.

Great to be here and thank you.

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