031 - PD-University

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Before we start the podcast today, we wanted to let you know that February is Get Connected Month. At Pure Desire, we are offering a buy one, get one half off on our marriage resource titled Connected. Visit www.puredesire.org to start building a bridge to intimacy today. Enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host as always, Nick Stumbo.

And here's the kickoff today we have.

Heather Kolb and Anna Phillipson with us. Heather is a speaker, author and our content editor at Pure Desire. And Anna is our events manager as well as does some event directing for us. So Heather and Anna, thanks for being with us today.

Thanks for having me.

Happy to be here.

So today we have Anna and Heather on to talk about our event that is known as the Pure Desire University or the pdu. The PDU is an event that we bring to churches all over the country each year. And we're really just going to talk through what the event is, the benefits it brings to churches and communities of faith. And what's cool is that each of us in here in the room right now have had a role in these conferences. So we hope to bring insight to the value and the benefit of either of hosting or attending a pdu.

Well, it's an exciting day, Trevor, because this really is our primary event and you can add to that intro that we've done them all over the world now because last fall we did do one all the way down in Brazil in helping that country launch sort of franchise of Pure Desire. So we've designed it in a way it can go anywhere. But let's start with this. Anna, welcome. It's your first time on the podcast, so can you give us a little bit of your history and describe your role as the events manager here at Pure Desire?

Yeah, sure.

I started at Pure Desire about a year and a half ago and my first week on the job they sent me to a pdu. I didn't really know much about Pure Desire at all, but after a two day conference at a pdu, I knew a lot and I went away from that really personally impacted, which I was not expecting. And a little over a week later I joined a group and that was a great experience and just really impacted so many parts of my life. And now I lead a group which is going well and I'm just really excited to be at Pure Desire. As the events manager, I work with people all over the world who are interested in bringing PDU or other events to their, to their church. And it's really, it's really great to hear from the churches and hear what they want to do and the goals that they have for, for addressing the topic of sexual addiction. It's just awesome to hear so many churches wanting to do that. So I work with them from kind of their initial goal and then all the way to bringing the PDU there and work with them along the way and just help them feel confident about what they're doing and getting the event there.

Yeah, well, I know you manage a whole host of details and information along the way, so we're super grateful for what you do.

Great, thanks.

Alright, so let's dive into this then because Heather, Nick, you guys are both speakers and Anna, you do some event directing and for me I do some of the MC and the kind of tech and media stuff behind the scenes. So let's just talk about what is a PD university.

Yeah, the PD university, like I said, is a two day conference and we really want to equip the church in how to raise an awareness of unhealthy sexual addiction behaviors. And so a lot of people don't realize it's such a big issue in the church. And that's why I think this conference is so beneficial. And it's available to both men and women because it's an issue for both men and women and it also impacts the spouses of both men and women. And so it's open to everybody to attend. We even encourage anyone in the church to attend even if they have no history of a sexual addiction or aren't even connected to it in any way. It's really good for just creating that awareness and developing an education around the topic.

Well, one of the things I really appreciate about the way we've set up the university is we've made it really manageable for people in the church to come that typically most people won't have to take off work because it starts Friday evening, wraps up by Saturday dinner time. So it's not your whole weekend, you still get to church on Sunday. So it's a conference that someone can make a part of their weekend and really benefit from and not have to take a week off work and fly somewhere out of the way because we do them around the country. It's hopefully provides people that accessibility to get to one in their neck of the woods and really get tremendous benefit from that. So this is a two day conference that highlights sexual addiction, understanding factors that contribute to it, and just a whole host of topics around that. So it's primarily thought of though, as a man's issue when we talk about lust or pornography. Throughout church history, it's been treated more as something men struggle with. So the question here, can both men and women attend this event?

Absolutely. In fact, we've had even our more recent PDUs that we've had. We've seen a growing rate of women who are not only attending, but they're attending because they themselves struggle with some form of sexual or love addiction, which is a great place for them to come and learn about really some of those same factors that contribute to what, why we become addicted in the first place. It's also a great conference for women who've been betrayed by their spouse or by any other previous relationship. It's a great place for women to come and hear the information just in case they might have children who are struggling. And again, like Anna was saying, raising that awareness that sexual addiction, we believe at pure desire, is a family systems issue. It's not enough that we just, you know, heal the men if they're the ones struggling. We really need to have a broader approach if we're going to find healing and freedom in the church.

Well, and two, I think people maybe assume that if I come to this conference, it means that I'm admitting that I have a sexual addiction problem or maybe a porn problem or a love problem. And the reality is that's not true. That's not what we sell. That's not what we talk about. This is something where you can come help change the tide. I mean, that's something that Nick says every PDU is talking about the idea of changing the tide of sexual devastation in the church. And so really creating this culture where anybody can come and really inviting people to be a part of the solution, not just, you know, letting the problem continue in churches.

Well, and this event really does change the paradigm for a lot of people because I think when many churches talk about the issues of purity or integrity and it's going to be on a weekend or a seminar, what many people might imagine is an event where they're going to come and share all of their stuff and get super honest about everything they've done and, you know, break into small groups and nobody wants to go to that. Yeah. Or, you know, people that do maybe got bait and switched like they thought they were going to a men's event for the Food. And then they find out it's about all this deep, personal stuff, and then.

They leave the church and never come back.

Yeah, it's just terrible.

Yeah.

Are these weird images of, like, guys running through the woods with their shirts off and, like, this real macho thing? And our event is just designed to be so applicable to so many different people, and it's a place where you're not going to have to come and tell your whole story. And it's really an equipping event. It's to be educated and resourced so that you have the tools. And if it is someone's issue, they'll have some next steps they can take, but they're not going to be put on the spot or made to share any of that with people at their tables. So if any of our listeners kind of have that idea in mind of, okay, here's a seminar on purity. I don't want to go to that because of. I don't want to be that personal. That's just not our approach to this event at all.

Yeah, that's good. Well, guys, let's kind of talk about really the desired outcomes that we have for this. So it's. It's. We've just talked about it. It's a place where men and women can come, they can get educated, they can learn principles and tips and really how to start a healing ministry when it comes to addiction in their church. But what else will men and women get out of attending this event?

Well, I was just starting to talk about this a little bit, Trevor, in that we want to make it a conversation for people, whether it's men or women, parents, people facing their own issue. We want to normalize the conversation. That doesn't mean we want to normalize the behavior or make us accept something that we believe is wrong, but to make this topic no longer taboo. And I think that's something many churches face and many families is they just didn't grow up with good models or examples of how to talk about healthy sexuality. And so they just never talked about it. And so in churches and in homes, this topic just doesn't get addressed. And so in coming to a university, men and women are going to get the tools to understand how do we have the conversations and whether it's my issue or not, how to bring it up in ways that lead to health and healing and freedom and not just awkwardness and embarrassment. So I think that's one of the primary things people are going to get out of it is just how to become a safe person. Around this topic and remove some of the taboos. I also think what people will discover is they're going to get a much, much deeper understanding of what's going on. When we talk about sexual addiction or any kind of sexually compulsive behavior in the church and in many of our own personal thinking, we kind of have this behavior mindset of, well, just stop it, don't do it anymore. And it's entirely focused on an action or a choice. And what we're going to look at in the university is all the things that lead up to that choice, things from our past and our pathways that got us here. What's going on in the brain. It's just going to take the whole topic and add a level of depth that maybe, as Anna was saying in the intro, people just don't expect when they first show up. So that's a second outcome. And then a third one that I see happen routinely in these universities is that for people who come, they're going to have a next step that they can take. Whether it's someone who's just interested in the topic but not involved at all, they'll understand how they can take a step to help start groups or maybe join a group or talk to their kids. If someone is already in a group, they're going to receive some insight into what would it look like to help lead a group or help facilitate a group so they can take the next step. Or if someone's already leading a group, they're going to understand better methods of how to lead that group, how to multiply that group, or how to help even train other leaders in their church or community to start groups. And so I think that's one of the real values for a church or people who attend is wherever they're at, whether they're way down the road on this topic and growing and helping others, or it's just their initiation, they're going to see ways that they can go to the next level. And we really try to help people do that in real, tangible ways.

I think that it's also one of those areas where people always want to know why. They want to know why it is that they do what they do. And so when we at the university, when we talk about, you know, creating a safe place where it's non judgmental, non threatening, we're going to talk about some of the things that a lot of people are surprised to find out that things that were happening to them at one year old impacted their behavior today. And so really I think that that's part of what we do at the university is not just say, here's practical application, but let's discover what was going on in your world personally and these contributing factors that maybe were instrumental in your addictive behaviors.

Yeah, you know, something, too. You know, before I was on staff, I had gone to a couple PDUs, and some of the things I noticed were really seeing how many people are affected by this and seeing and hearing, you know, from people just rubbing shoulders with people, you know, too. But another thing that people will get out of this is we bring a table that we have with us that has all of our resources on it, and people can come to that and see really all the things that we offer, whether it's the Conquer series or whether it's marriage stuff or whether it's seven Pillars, eight Pillars, Betrayal, and beyond. All of our stuff, we bring it really to give people something in hand right there. Because I think, you know, half the battle is really educating and showing people, you know, what's. What's going on in the world, especially when it comes to this and what's going on in your body. But to be able to have resources to hand someone right there and say, this is the work. You can start it right now, I think is really, really important. So that's another added benefit if you come to the university event, when we've.

Talked about this on a lot of our podcasts, that any kind of sexually compulsive behavior is by nature isolating and makes us feel alone in it. And I think there's some of that isolation that can also carry over for a church or a couple that's trying to face this issue is they kind of feel like, are we the only ones that are trying to do something, and maybe they're struggling to make progress, or they only have one group at their church and they can feel a little bit alone in it. Coming to the university really gives you that sense of, wow, there are a lot of people addressing this and look around this room at people that are a lot like us, that they're trying to do similar things in their church or their home. And so that sense of community, even though, like I said earlier, we don't ask people to share any of their personal stuff, but just being able to see others facing this topic along with them, I think gives people tremendous encouragement and hope. Because now it's all of us that are in this together. And many times it'll be churches from the same community or people that they've seen at other places, like, oh, you Guys are doing something too. And so that ability to kind of network and feel like you're partnered with others is also there. And I think it's a real encouragement to many who attend.

It diminishes shame. It does. It makes this topic less taboo when you see more and more people at events trying to combat this alongside you, for sure.

Well, we're talking about the university a lot and some of the outcomes and what someone can expect. But let's get more specific now and really the details. So what does the event actually look like? What are some of the things people can expect if they show up on a Friday, Saturday for a university? Yeah.

So Friday night, you know, is really coming in. And it really starts with the culture of grace. So, Nick, this is a session that you speak. We also have a couple speakers as well who do this session. And it's a session really, I think, that acts as an on ramp to the entire weekend. Really sets the stage. You know, you talk about the difference between grace and shame and really how that plays out in the culture of a church. And really what it is, is it's a sermon. I think in a lot of ways, it really preps the people that are there to get kind of into this topic, into the idea that you need to address some things, not just, you know, by reading your Bible or trying harder, but really understanding that, you know, there are some approaches that we see supported by scripture that we can really, really help with the principles. And then, you know, the second session on Friday night is Renewing the Mind one. And Heather, that's something that you dive into and. And really talking about the brain and the neurochemistry behind addiction. It's like a fire hydrant full of information. It's so good. I've heard it so many times. And I still come away with probably six or seven questions that I didn't have answered and need to ask Heather. I send her emails all the time. No, but it really is something where you start to understand how the brain works. And then Saturday we go back to renewing the mind too. And Heather really dives into the practical application of the understanding. And then we have Establishing Sobriety, where Nick really gives, you know, you and the other speakers that do these sessions, really, you're giving principles as far as. From. From really very, very spiritual to practical on how to really take steps towards freedom. And then we have some of our. Our groups, people who teach family dynamics and group dynamics. And these are two sessions where we talk about really the. The issues you see inside the Family and how it plays out, and then also really how to get pure desire groups going in your church. This is really where the conference starts to take a very practical approach on what creating a pure desire ministry looks like in your church. And really setting up people, you know, getting people onto the freeway of freedom in that sense. And then we break up into men and women breakout sessions, where throughout the entire event, people have the opportunity to send in questions. And this really is an opportunity for men to go and meet with men and ask questions and women to. To go meet with women and ask questions. Nick, why don't you give us an idea a little bit about the men's breakout, and then we'll ask Heather about the women's.

Yeah, we get some great questions. I think it. Because we divide by the genders there, it does give people some freedom to ask a question. They might not feel comfortable in a mixed crowd. And we'll get as nitty gritty as the audience wants to from specifics about maybe an issue they've had or a marriage issue that's come up. And they're always asked anonymously. So that's also the freedom of someone can write in the question, and no one knows who it's from, but just really to address those things that people maybe have felt like. I've always wanted to ask someone this, but didn't ever feel safe and certainly didn't think my pastor would want to answer this question. But just to let men process some of the practical steps of whether it's in their own life or helping a guy who struggles or reaching out to their teenager. The topics are pretty broad, but I think it's one of the favorite sessions because it's, you know, towards the end of the conference, and by then people are really starting to process the information and personalize it. And that's the questions we're getting is, hey, you've talked about this, but what about that? And to take it just that one step further into their own learning. It's kind of fun to see what happens. And the interaction there is usually really good.

And in the women's session, I always feel like we could probably extend that session and have it go for a couple hours just to.

We're always in a rush to get through as many questions.

Yeah, definitely. And it just seems like even for the women, whether they're women who struggle with betrayal or they have their own addictive behaviors, our questions are all over the board. You know, questions about not only them personally, but how do they help their kids, you know, Even when they have little kids, where do they start creating a culture of healthy sexuality in their home? You know, even within the marriage. What's okay, what's not okay are sex. Things. You know, we talk about sex. Sex, which is super fun, ladies. And so we talk about the things that are again, non threatening. Safe space. Let's get some good answers, Biblically based, scientifically proven, and let's talk about sex. It's awesome. It's my favorite session.

Yeah. And so then once we've done those sessions, we then come to the end of the conference, which is Healing Woundedness. And that's, you know, where we really spend time talking about what it looks like to dive in and push into the woundedness to the wounds that we have. Because we see that sexual addiction is not ultimately about sex, but it really is about medicating your pain and trying to bring healing to the wounds that you have. And Nick, you speak, you know, in that one, in that session. So can you tell us a little bit about how you kind of wrap up the conference in that way?

Well, one of the things we found as pure desire was really Even founded over 20 years ago is, was understanding how our sexual behavior isn't just about desire or attraction or our preferences in the opposite sex. It really are things that are created and rooted in us through our family of origin and often through wounds and trauma. And the battle so many people face is, well, I came from a good home, I don't have any trauma. Because we think of trauma as like those extreme examples of abuse or someone that had to go and be in a war or the extreme stuff that we all would agree, well, yeah, that's trauma or that's a wound. But what we acknowledge in that session is that none of us were raised by Jesus. We all had imperfect parents. And where our parents imperfection met our neediness as children, that creates wounds. And into those wounds are the very places the enemy wants to insert lies into our thinking. Or just our old selfish nature inserts lies about who we are and our value. And so many people grow up with this trauma in their life and aren't aware of the background music that's created for them that's actually driving their compulsive behavior. Because anything we do that is compulsive or addictive is being driven by something deeper. And so in Healing Woundedness, we try to help people identify where those messages are. And then really, what does it look like to let the grace and the truth of the Holy Spirit into our lives? And so what I Love about that session. And really the whole conference is it's both deeply biblical, but also clinically informed that we build it on God's word, but also look at the truth that we see in brain research and psychology as illustrations of God's design in our brain. And the two are really, really compatible. And I know for some people, maybe even listening, that's a little bit of a stretch or might even make them a bit uncomfortable. Like, man, God's word is all we need, and science is in addition to that, and we don't need. But I think if they give that a chance and recognize just what I said, that we're simply trying through science or brain research to unveil God's design and then how sin or Satan hijacks that, they'll see these two areas are very compatible. And I think that's one of the things that makes this session and really the whole university unique is there are very few examples of that in the church today where you're going to find both angles brought together of biblically informed, clinically informed, all for the benefit of the church and the groups that are using Pure Desire material.

Yeah. And really is. We have a blast. I mean, it really is a fun event that we really get to know people and come alongside churches and help really partner in this. And so it's a lot of fun for us. Okay, so we've talked about the details of the event, but let's kind of big picture. What are the benefits that. That it'll bring the local church and the community if they host a pdu?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest benefits to the church is that this really sets them up with their own congregation, but in the community to say, we want to help in this area. And it's not just for a small percentage of you that really struggle, because inadvertently, that's the message far too many people in the church are getting, is that if I battle with this, I'm in a minority, I better not talk about it. So when a church hosts this event or even is just real proactive in promoting one and trying to get their people to attend one in their area, it gives them a way to say, we have some viable answers in this area and we're a part of it. And the more they talk about that, it'll create a culture of safety in their church. Because people know, hey, our church talks about this, we address it. And then for those that do have a personal issue to walk through, they have some freedom to actually inappropriate ways say to someone else, I need Help. Where's the group? Where do I get started? And it takes it from kind of the corners of the church and puts it up front in a healthy way to say, let's do something about this. Churches will have a resource then to offer to their parents. And I really believe it's becoming increasingly an evangelistic tool, because you look at what's happening in our world, whether it's sex abuse allegations or just the craziness that's happening, the growth in the pornography industry and Internet porn on people's smartphones, the world is looking around going, we're making a big mistake here. There's got to be a better way. And if the church can rise up and say, there is, there's hope and there's freedom and God's way is good, I really believe it's going to attract people to the church like never before. And so I think that's an opportunity churches have when they host a university or attend one, is they're really equipped to then turn not just to their own church, but turn to their community and say, we can help in this area because we know in our society, men and women are really being snowed under in this area. And if they can see in the church, they have hope, they have some freedom that I want to know about. I believe it'll really become an outreach tool as well.

Yeah. And on that, I mean, it's just really great to see the community that's built between churches, because I talk to a lot of churches who partner with other churches. So there might be a smaller church, but they really want to see this. They really want to have us come to a pdu and so they partner with another, like, four or five churches in their area. And so seeing them come together and seeing them promote the event and they come, they come back, and they have 150 people at the event, 200. It's just so great to see that and see that they all together are trying to combat this issue.

You know, another benefit that I see, really, is that we get to come in and we get to start the conversation from churches. I think a lot of churches know that this is not a popular topic. It's not something that you are really excited to preach through a sermon series on sexual addiction or sexual purity. But really, we get to come in and we get to help churches start this conversation. And really what you find out, and this is what's been so cool about this ministry, is that it really gives people a voice and a ministry to move forward. I think, you know, people have been avoiding stepping into ministry or serving because they. They feel shame. They're not really sure that they are qualified to serve. But in reality, this gives people, especially who have struggled in this area, really an opportunity to minister to other people. And so what it does is it in some ways really gives someone a jersey and actually puts them in the game when they feel like they've been on the sidelines for way too long. And so it really is cool because it can kickstart so many different things at local churches.

For sure. And there's a great quote in the sports world that says, it's not that I had the courage to finish, it's that I had the courage to start, start. And I think that is true in this area. Like you said, Trevor, it takes tremendous courage to start the conversation, to start the ministry, to start the group. And if you're listening as a church or just a parent or an individual thinking, how do I start this? Fill in the blank. How do I start this group? How do I start this conversation with my kids, in my marriage? Being a part of a university really can be that starting point. And then from there, not to say it's easy, but it can certainly feel more like a downhill battle because you've taken the hardest step with just kicking open that door and figuring out, how do I talk about this, how do I address this? And we really get excited when we see people's wheels starting to turn and say, man, we can do this. We can do something with this. So let's say someone's listening to this episode and they see the need for this event at their church or in their local area. What are some next steps that they can take?

Yeah, if they want to bring us there to host a PDU, they can just email our events team, eventseeredesire.org you can even go to the website puredesire.org PDU and that will take you right there to tell you more about the event, how to host an event, and you can take all those details back to your church and we'll work with you all along the way to get it set up and to get you going and promotion and. And even through the whole thing, all the way to the event. If you have questions, you just give us a call and we'll be able to help you. It's not hard. It just takes a little bit of effort on getting the word out and just really getting your whole congregation to understand and the people around your church just to get an understanding of what the event is. And then they Just need to come and they'll be happy they did.

Yeah.

What I would echo that for people who are listening that maybe they're not in leadership or they're not a pastor at their church and they're thinking, I don't have any decision making power at my church, what should I do? You know, you can be a champion in your local church and we see that very often that we end up doing a university in a location because someone in the church, not the pastor, not a staff member, but someone in the church was passionate and said if we'll bring this here, I'll be a part of making it happen. And so maybe that's someone who's listening today and they're going to be the one that directs their staff or a pastor to look at the website. You know, there's a great video there that gives someone a real good overview of what to expect and you could be the one just to get that conversation going. Even if you don't have any ability to make the decision, you might be that voice or that champion in the church that really helps make it happen. So don't discount your ability for influence just because you're not on staff. See how God would use you to start the conversation in your church.

Well, and two, we've done these, we do these all over the country. And so if your church isn't willing to host a pdu, there's going to be ones somewhere around the country that you can attend and so be aware that that's a possibility. But then too, I mean, I think that we're open to connecting you with churches who've hosted a PDU in the past. If you really want just kind of a non pure desire answer to why things went so well or if they enjoyed the events or if they'd have us back, why they would encourage to have it at your church. And so it really is something where we want people to know that it's not an event that we want to come and we want to start our ministry at your church. It's we want to help you start your ministry at your church when it comes to this topic. And it's got to include other churches, it's got to, you know, include the big C church in the kingdom. So alright guys. Well, we like to end each of our episodes with just really giving time for encouragement. And so I just want to open this up to you guys. Maybe someone out there is listening to this episode and they're considering either going to a PDU or maybe hosting one at their Church. What encouragements, what insights, what tips would you give them moving forward with that?

I think that the PDU offers people hope. I think if they themselves are struggling with, you know, sex addiction or pornography addiction or somebody they love is struggling, that they would recognize that they're. That there's hope. Or if their family has been, you know, has really experienced some of the fallout of sexual addictive behaviors and the family is struggling, there's hope. There's hope for everyone. There's. There's healing for the entire family. And it starts at a pdu.

Yeah. I would say that if. If you're on the fence about going to a pdu, you don't feel like this is really an issue for you, or maybe it's an issue in the past just to go anyways, because there's going to be content there that's going to apply to your lives, and you'll be able to. You'll really be able to learn from it and realize that some of this stuff in the past may not have been dealt with, and maybe that's showing up in your life now in a different way and you can still find healing.

Yeah, I would just echo that, Anna. I think something I've appreciated about the university is I've met people there that have been in a group and in the healing process for 5, 10 years and other times met people there that it's because, like, within that month, things in their marriage or relationship really surfaced, and they're there in a hurting, difficult place and either extreme and everywhere in between, people say, this was so good. We got so much out of this. And so I would encourage anyone listening, if you've never been, obviously we want you to be at one and experience it. Get to know us, get to know our team. You know that the speaking team rotates in and out, so it's not one speaker always the same. And even if you've been a year or two in the past, I will routinely hear people say, you know, I came to one two years ago, and I know some of the content was similar, but I feel like I'm walking away with a whole different set of outcomes, things I learned. And I think that's just the nature of this topic, that at one point in our journey, the things we need to hear are one thing, and then a couple years later, we're at a different place. Maybe we're more ready to help others, and God uses it to say a whole new set of things to us. So I would just encourage anyone who's listening, who maybe feels like I know pure Desire and I've been in groups for a while. It'd just be old news or I'd know everything. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by how God uses it. And the material will be fresh and wherever you're at in your story, whether the very beginning or many, many years in, something good is going to come from it and just be open to what does God want to do next in your life?

And ultimately this problem is not going away. I mean, if you look at the trends and where we're going, our culture is more and more sexualized. Porn is becoming more and more of a thing. And so it's not like this is going to die down after a decade or two. It's just going to continually increase. And so I think that it's important that churches get involved in this topic, in this issue, and this is a great way to really start doing that. So that'd be my encouragement. Guys, this has been so good. I'm glad that we've been able to sit down and talk about this and really chat through this event because I think that we see the need and we definitely hope that churches see the need and the importance of fighting sexual addiction through our event, the University. So, Anna, Heather, thanks for sitting down and talking with us.

Yeah, yeah, thanks Trevor.

If you are interested in attending a PD university, visit www.puredesire.org PDU. You'll find the sessions, speakers and details on our website. And you'll also find the PDUs we currently have scheduled around the country are there as well. So if you're interested in hosting a PDF to you like Anna said earlier, talk to our events team. Just email eventsuredesire.org and just know that this event is really designed to help springboard your church in the fight against sexual addiction. Our team and our mission is focused really on equipping and mobilizing the local church to fight on the front lines of this issue. So please don't hesitate to reach out to us if you're desiring to attend one or to host the PD University. And we truly desire to come alongside the local church and fight this issue together. And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe. You can also rate and review our podcast and let us know how we're doing. For more information, check out our website, PureDesire.org. you can also follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. Once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey.

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