045 - Regional Group Leaders (RGL)

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Before we start the podcast today, we wanted to let you know about a new resource we have, our Stories for Women book study. This study will take you through 20 stories of women who have been impacted by sexual brokenness. This study can be completed individually or with a small group. Whether you find yourself on a healing journey from the impact of sexual brokenness or simply want to become more aware of this growing issue, this book study is for you. As you study their stories and step into the lives of these women, may you discover encouragement and lasting hope. To order your copy of our new Stories for Women book study, visit PureDesire.org enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host, as always, Nick Stumbo.

Dobrodoshli.

I don't understand. What is that?

That was a little Bosnian.

Oh, okay.

Threw that in there.

Great.

Yeah. Don't ask me for more because that's all I got.

We're trying to reach the nations on this podcast.

We're in. Hey, we're Pure Desire Ministries International.

That's perfect.

So we have to appeal to all nations.

Very good. So today we're joined by the chambers, Ernie and Jackie. They both are RGLs, or Regional Group leaders for our south region. And that's Texas, Mississippi and Louisiana. They're married to each other, if you haven't gathered that yet. And they have two daughters. They've battled through this issue and have found freedom and healing from it. And we're really excited to have you guys with us. Ernie and Jackie, thanks so much for being here.

Thank you.

We're excited to be here.

Awesome. Okay, so today's episode, we're actually going to be talking through their role, the role of regional group leader or rgl. And we, we want to talk about what an RGL is, why we have the position in place, and really the benefits of having the support and encouragement from your rgl. So before we kind of jump in though, Jackie, you've been on the podcast before, but Ernie, this is your first time. Thanks for being here. We're excited. And so because of that, why don't you guys fill our listeners in a little bit? Just introduce yourself, Ernie, let our listeners know a little bit about you.

Alrighty. Well, my name is Ernie and born again believer, follower of Jesus Christ. I've been married for 34 years to this wonderful lady next to me, Jackie. And we live in Texas, originally from California. I struggled with sexual addiction our first 18 years of marriage. And it was a rough battle and it led to a separation. But that separation opened my eyes and my heart. What which started me on my journey and where I believe God has commissioned us in this field of addiction because we have been healed and taking place in our own marriage. So very thankful for the journey and very grateful.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

All right, Ernie and Jackie, we're so glad to have you guys with us all the way from Texas. And thanks for taking your time because it's a topic this morning that we haven't had a chance on the podcast to talk a whole lot about. So some of our listeners might be really familiar with this topic and others, this might be kind of a new idea of regional group leaders, or rgls. So take a minute, if you guys would, in your own words, would you explain and describe exactly what is a regional group leader or RGL for Pure Desire?

Go ahead, dear.

Okay. So I'm excited about being a regional group leader because we had the RGB opportunity to lead groups before this was even in place. So we know what it is to not have support or anybody that we could call on if we have any troubles or issues. But that's what a regional group leader does. We walk alongside our group leaders in our region, and we stay in contact with them. We are available for them. We let them know that if there's any issues or questions that they have that they could come to us. And we also help them keep in line with Pure Desire's best practices. So we just. We're just there to be available for them and to help them in anything that they may run up against.

I know from my understanding. I agree with Jackie. And I also look at a regional group leader, someone who's contributor, encourager, and overseer who helps administers and support those facilitators and group leaders in regards to their group dynamics, walking alongside them and just getting to know who they are and helping them in establishing group structure and developing strategies for consistent operations. I've been a group leader for a while, and I just have a knack and a compassion to help men and groups succeed as well as facilitators and group leaders.

Yeah, leading a group can often be sort of isolating for people because they may be operating in a church structure where they have some staff support or oversight, but that doesn't mean the staff necessarily is very acquainted with the material or pure Desire, they're there to encourage them. But if it comes to practical questions about the material or something happening in group, that group leader doesn't know who to turn to. And so the RGL is like having a coach or a trainer in your corner that can point out things and offer direction, but really it's to empower the work that those leaders are doing.

Right.

So some people listening might be wondering, well, that sounds like a great thing. Is there a cost? Do I have to apply? Like, there must be something I have to do to get help from a regional group leader. Is that right?

No, there's no cost. If you leading a pure desire group, we are here for you. We just make ourselves available. This is a volunteer position that we have, and like we said, we just have a passion for it because we know how important it is to have that support and to have that coaching along.

Well, what's so great is that it's someone who's been there. It's someone who's been through the experience of finding freedom and healing in this. It's someone who's been through group. It's someone who knows the material, and it's just somebody who. Cause, I mean, gosh, me and Nick were having this conversation this morning. The idea of having someone that's experienced what you've gone through and is maybe a little further along than you is extremely helpful. Even just knowing cognitively that someone's been there, but then also having that person walk through the process with you is even more beneficial because they can say, oh, yeah, I messed up there, or I had that experience too, or here's how I do that. That differently this time. So it's just really someone who just has been there before.

Absolutely.

Yeah. I think the comfort of being a group leader and facilitator is knowing that some, as you mentioned, somebody has been through it, has been there and experienced and walking in that overcoming and freedom.

Yeah. Okay, so if churches, let's say people are listening and their churches have been doing groups, what we first tell people is to be in contact with our international group coordinators. So Rich Moore, Ashley Jamison, they've been on the podcast before, and so that's their first point of contact, and they help them kind of get groups going. And so with that, the rgls, maybe it seems like overkill or redundant. And so what makes an RGL different than an international group coordinator? And why is this role in place?

The coordinator, they set up basically the foundation. They answer all the questions, you know, they're in contact with the group leader and also with the church. They're just putting everything in place to get started. And then once that group gets started, then they hand them off to us. And this is where we walk alongside them during their groups. So, like I said, if they have any issues that come up or arise, they could come to us. Because I know Rich and Ashley, since they're international, they are dealing with a lot of people, and, you know, they don't have the time to, you know, help every individual who may have a problem, so they hand them off to us. And, you know, we could be more intimate with our group leaders. We could get to know them more on a personal basis and just develop a good relationship with them.

Just knowing that we're on the front lines with them, that they're not alone, that we're right there with them, that should they turn their back, that they know that we are right there, that if they have any questions or concerns on how to handle anything, what foundational principles need to be added or subtracted to make their group successful, just having that knowledge.

And you guys are talking about someone who's also in the area, is focused specifically on that area and is invested. And there's something to that when, you know, someone is maybe only a few hours away versus being all the way in Gresham, Oregon, when you're across the country. So having someone local and that support can also be super helpful, even just as you, you know, get going with this stuff.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I think that's one of the blessings for me is, you know, that, you know, we have leaders who've come from our groups, and then they come up under us, you know, as we. As we're their, you know, regional group leaders. And so, you know, we have the opportunity to go meet for coffee, you know, and just hang out. And it's just. I just love being personable with them and not losing that relationship.

Yeah, I think that's a great opportunity that I've heard from a number of our regional group leaders that if they're able, they love to get to meet group leaders, like you said, for coffee or they happen to be in their area and they'll call up so they can get together. And it does become a more personal touch than, like you say, Trevor, just someone out in Gresham, Oregon, that's trying to give them good advice. And so we appreciate so much what you guys do on the front lines there. And for our listeners that are still kind of understanding this role, tell us a little bit about what are the qualifications that are needed for someone to be a regional group leader. Like what, what makes you guys capable in this area and able to serve as regional group leaders?

Well, I think the experience and through the journey that we've had with struggling for almost 20 years and going through recovery for another almost additional 20 years has really made an impact on a lot of the lives that we have affected through our sharing through our groups and having that real life experience that they can relate to.

And also having sobriety is important. And leading them, also leading or co leading groups, they have to make sure they have that experience also to be a regional group leader. Like you said, they know the mistakes that are made and they're following the principle. They're following the best practices of pure desire, and they have an understanding of how to articulate that and communicate that to the group leaders in their region.

Yeah. So, okay, let's press in a little bit more to the role we've talked a little bit about. You know, big picture of what RGLs do, but what type of support do RGLs offer the church and the group leaders in those churches?

I think the role has always been a desire for us to work closely with group leaders and group facilitators because of our success in recovery. We know what it takes to walk this journey, to go through the ups and downs of recovery, relapses, transparency, honesty. We know those, those attributes are so important, and we try to exemplify them in our own lives. And I try to do that in my marriage as well, because I think that's our first ministry, first and foremost. And if I can't do it at home, I can't expect the guys to do it in groups. So we practice those things in our marriage. And I think it's a valuable asset and it's a role that we need to follow as facilitators and group leaders.

One of our desires before pure desire developed, regional group leaders was me and Ernie would talk about the vision that we had. And we said, wouldn't it be nice if we had the opportunity to reach churches? Because, okay, in Texas, there is almost a church on every corner. There are so many churches here, it's.

Like a Starbucks on the west coast.

Exactly, exactly. And we know, you know, the majority of those churches have never even recognized that there is a sexual addiction problem. But yet we know the struggle is very evident in the church. And it's like, we would love to find a way to be able to reach those churches in our area to let them know that this is available and that they need to know that there is an awareness of their members in their church that are actually struggling with this. So, you know, when we came out with the regional group leaders, that just helped us with the vision that we wanted to do. As fact is, getting churches to know and identify that this is a need that's in their church, that we have the resources and tools to help them and that we're not just going to drop this stuff off and leave them, but we walk with you every step of the way. So because it could be a fearful, this could be a mess, it's a messy ministry. Let's just say that. And so we know a lot of churches, they're like, we don't even know how to handle this. So we're like, we do. And we could walk with you through this, and we could help you through this, and we could help your congregation and your church get the freedom that they need. So we just count this a blessing.

Well, and it's so true that when we're trying to do something in life that we've never done before, it can seem big and scary and overwhelming. And so if a church desires to tackle this issue of pornography and sexual struggles, they don't know where to begin. And so if they. Even if they've discovered pure desire in our workbook materials, there may be that fear factor of just how do we do it? Right? And we don't want to create more problems than we help with. And so knowing there's someone you can reach out to that's been there before, walk down that road and say, well, how did you do this? How did you walk through that is so valuable because it really can help us overcome our fear of. Of starting something new and find out how effective it can be in our church.

Absolutely right.

So we've already established that you guys don't get paid a whole lot for this role.

Nothing.

You've just. Right. That's not a whole lot. You've just jumped into it because you want to help others. So tell us a little bit more about that. Why did you decide to step into such a big volunteer role? What was your motivation in being an rgl?

This was just our vision. Because, you know, when you. When you walk in freedom, when you see what God has done for you, you just cannot keep it to yourself. And, you know, we just recognize the enemy was just trying to take us out, you know, individually, our family, our legacy, and God has just done so. Such a miraculous turnaround and a transformation in us that, you know, we want to Be that light that that shines. And so the benefit for us is to seeing other people healed, to see other people restored, to see families restored, because we know that it's possible. And too many of our brothers and sisters in Christ are just walking, feeling hopeless, feeling that there's no one to turn to, and feeling that their lives and marriages can't change. And so we want to be able to, to express. Oh, yes, it can. You know, we are the walking testimony of that. And so, you know, here we are. We are here to walk with you, whatever it takes. We know it's a hard road, but we know it's a road that is possible.

And absolutely what Jackie's saying. And for me, I know what God has done in my life and how he's turned me around. And I know the struggles that I had and where I was. But I also know who I am, where I'm going, and what God has for me and what his purpose and intent is for me. And he's doing that daily in my life. And as I submit to him, he's guiding me, he's leading me, he's filling me with the spirit daily. He's giving me understanding, wisdom to help others. So when I run across someone who is struggling, who is undecisive, uncertain, you know, I say, I know, I've been there, I was there, but I know how to get out of it. And I want to share that with you.

Yeah, that's. And let me just say this, you know, I don't know if you guys get enough appreciation for what you do, because not only is it something that you volunteer your time, but it's. It could be a full time gig. Like being available and supportive of people is such a huge thing. And so we are so thankful for you and all the other RGLs who serve in this way because it really is a way to help people find freedom. And our ministry wouldn't be where we're at if we didn't have people like you who have experienced freedom and are willing to help pour into more and more people and help them find freedom. So just thank you so much for what you guys do.

We're grateful. We're very grateful.

So let's talk about this. What are some common issues that you hear from churches because you guys talk to group leaders every week. You guys are involved in their group ministries at their churches. What are some common mistakes? What are some common issues that you hear from churches and their groups? And what kind of help do those groups need? What kind of help do you guys end up offering them?

Well, I think one of the main things that I'm hearing is one, they don't have anything in place. No groups, no support system. I asked them what happens when they run into a situation like that and the pastor is, you know, like a deer with headlights, you know, so I'm noticing that, you know, getting started, how do I do this? Where are the leaders going to come from? And also a big thing if we do get a group. What about those that have child care, you know, that need child care, you know, how do we set that up? And then groups that want to stay in group compliance with procedures, you know, you have those issues of attendance. How do you deal with certain things in the group as far as the dynamics, how much time do you spend doing this and doing that and then the flow of the group and also keeping it a safe environment. What are your goals in doing that and how do you establish that? So I'm finding those are real common issues of a lot of churches that want to start groups.

Another common issue is when they get a lot of group members and they don't have enough leaders and they trying to figure out how to establish leaders within those groups. And so which is a good problem to have because you know, people are coming out to get the help that, you know, they need. So that's, that's one of the things that they address us a lot with.

Well, let's maybe lean into that one just a little bit because there might be people listening that are feeling that same pressure of we've got people that need help, we know we want to address this problem, but we've never had these groups before, so who can lead them? How do those leaders get trained? So what kind of practical guidance, what experience have you guys had that when someone reaches out with that question about leaders, what kind of pointers or what direction do you give to them?

Well, I think one of the things that I've done over the past several years is I get with the guys who are just about completion of the seven Pillars study and I have a one on one with them. I find out what their goals are after, after finishing the workbook and if they have a desire to go back through the book, then I'll suggest to them based on their sobriety, how their recovery is going and their marriage and their relationship to God is going. I have that conversation with them and 80% of the time a lot of the guys want to go through the book again and also co lead. And so I continue to pour into those guys on a one on one basis as well as get the group leader to give him an opportunity to lead in certain components of the group, such as the commitment to change or the faster scale or the homework. And as they begin to lead in those components, they get that experience. And then when the opportunity comes up to substitute for a leader who is out on a vacation or way out of town, I give them that opportunity to lead that group. So we develop those co leaders and leaders such as that.

And then also too, if they have more group members than leaders, Another good thing to do is to start off with a Conquer series. Sometimes group members, if they're going through the Conquer series and they know that the seven pillars are, are coming up too, just the information they get from the Conquer series will kind of let them know, am I ready for seven pillars or do I need to wait? So the Conquer series is a good information, a good starting place for the group members. And then sometimes that may weed some of the group members out to where they're not ready to start the seven pillars yet. And then you may end up with a smaller group anyway when you start the seven pillars.

Well, I know that's one of the questions we do get a lot is churches that want to start and they just feel like we don't have the leaders. And so because they don't have leaders, they don't start. But because they don't start, they don't have leaders. So it kind of becomes a problem that contributes to itself. And there are ways that we can walk alongside a church and to work with those that are ready and raise up leaders as you go. And we, we've seen that be effective in a lot of ways. So another question along similar lines would be as you work with churches in your area as RGLs, are there some mistakes that you're finding a lot of churches are making that this could be a good opportunity to just say, hey, as you run groups, here's something to avoid because we keep running across it and we'd love to give you a heads up before it becomes an issue in your church. So is anything along those lines where you're just finding maybe some similar things that have maybe gone sideways in a group or to church that could be helpful for all of our listeners to be aware of in their groups?

I think I don't give them too much information in regards to what to look out for because if they're just starting out, they're basically trying to find out what the criteria is for just beginning and as they start, as they initiate that foundational stability, then they gradually ask those questions. But I think by introducing them to the fears and the things that are going to be a problem in the beginning, they get a little sidetracked or bothered by that, and then they start to wonder, well, should I really start this group? Should we really have it here? So we let them get started first. And then as those issues arise, I work with them and share with them how they can get over this and deal with it on a level to where it's not so overwhelming to the leaders as well as the church.

And then another thing that we would like to share with them is that, you know, with their new group members, you're going to have different personalities and different behaviors, and people are going to maybe express their trauma. And we. We just think everybody wants to get healed, and they're just going to do everything according to the guidelines, according to the principle, and everything's going to be fine. But you're going to find that, you know, different personalities may not agree with your leadership or you facilitating, or they may try to take it over, or they may give you excuses for not doing their work or not have their own agendas. You know, that happens also. But, you know, we want to tell the group leaders, stick to the guidelines. Make sure you share the guidelines every time you meet, and don't be frustrated or don't feel that you're not qualified as a group leader because, you know, the group members are not responding the way you think they should. It's just. It's them learning the process, learning to be disciplined. And this is what it's going to take so to have patience with their group members and to know that, you know, this is the way. This is the way we run this group, and we got to respect the confidentiality. We got to respect everybody in the group. So this is the way we're going to run it, and we just gonna, you know, stand our ground, you know, and not allow others to take over. So.

Because they will, they will try those things.

They happen.

Yeah. A couple weeks ago, we had Ashley Jamison on, and she. She labeled group facilitators as the guardians of the guidelines. And it was an excellent, excellent. Just a great thing to remember that that is so important. And I think that every. Every person, whether they're stepping in a group now or whether they've been leading groups for years, is that the guidelines are so important that they're there for a reason. They're there for protection, but they're also there because it creates that place where healing can actually take place. So, yeah, you guys are right on with that.

Well, that's something I've heard a lot from Rich and Ashley, our international group coordinators, and from other RGLs, is they'll work with churches that have taken the material, and then before they've really used it and gotten familiar with it, they've adapted it. So they decided, oh, this is too long, or we don't need these parts, or they'll combine it with something else. And it's kind of like before you ever learn to ride a bicycle, you decided to do it differently and say, well, I'm gonna ride this bicycle sideways because I don't like the way everyone else looks, the way they ride it. So I'm ride it differently, and I'm sure this will work. And then if you saw them continually crashing, you'd be like, well, duh, you're not riding the bicycle correctly. So learn to ride it correctly. And then if you want to learn some tricks or do something fun, go for it. And I think that's kind of an illustration of what churches do. And I don't say they do it in the wrong spirit. I think they have the right spirit behind it, but they make a bunch of changes to fit it into their time or to make it work for them. But they don't recognize what they've lost by changing the group structure or some of those group parameters that really we've found over decades of doing this, what makes a group successful. And so I think that really is, in a lot of ways, the role of the the RGL is for you guys to be able to say to someone, hey, trust the process, see it through, watch how it works. And then a lot of these guidelines or the best practices that we're giving you are going to become clear because you'll have understood how it works. And so just some encouragement there, like, don't make the changes before you've understood why they're in place.

Exactly. Yes, exactly.

So I know that you guys love what you do, I know that you love people, but we're not going to just tell people to text you and put your phone numbers on this podcast. And so because of that, if people want to reach out to you or people want to get in contact with their RGLs, how do they do that? How do they get in contact with their regional group leaders?

Well, I think the first thing they should do is go to the PureDesire.org website and go click on the tab groups. And under the groups, they have the RGHS and listed in their regions that they're responsible for and you can make contact with any one of us.

Yeah, there's definitely. I mean that's. We'll make sure that that's in the show notes. It's really important to know that. And you know, for just getting groups going, also knowing that you can contact our international group coordinators and their job also is to hand off to the rgls once groups are up and going. And so just know that regardless of where you're at in the process, you have somebody you can contact and get going with.

That's right.

Well, you guys, we have so enjoyed having you with us and we like to end all of our podcasts pretty much the same way by just asking, what are some of the final encouragement that you would give to any listeners out there when it comes to using their regional group leader or contacting them for support and help? What final encouragement would you want to leave with our listeners today?

I would like to tell the group leaders to take full advantage of us. Do not be hesitate to call or to email us if you any teeny weeny situation or question comes up. Because if they try to do it on their own, they just don't know that there's someone who experienced that same thing. And they just don't take advantage of all the resources, all the tools and everything that pure desire has to offer. And so we're able to lead them in that direction. We're not only here for them as group leaders, we are here for them on a personal level too. I've had the opportunity to pray with our group leaders and to be able to share and encourage because if they're going through something, you know, they want to lead the groups, but their personal life may be hectic or they're maybe going through something that is hard and they just feel frustrated. So we're there for them even in that capacity. We understand and we know and we're here so you won't have to get frustrated. You don't have to feel like a failure and just to take your time, create some balance and to know that, you know, we'll be praying for you. We continually pray for you and then we're here, you know, if you get stuck or if anything comes up. So take full advantage of us.

I agree with Jackie. We want to make sure that we let all group leaders and facilitators know that you are not alone, that you are not taking this journey as a group leader or facilitators. By yourself, that we want to be there for you because we know the challenges and the struggles that you're going to come up against sooner than later. And we want to do everything we can to help prepare you on how to deal with certain issues. So we just want to be there for you.

Yeah. What comes to mind for me is how the phrase from Henri Nouwen that we're all wounded healers. And so if someone reaches out to you for help, that's not a sign of weakness, that's a sign of strength. Because they're acknowledging I've still got issues I'm dealing with. And even as they reach out to you guys or any of our regional group leaders, they're reaching out to other wounded healers. Not to experts that are perfect and have it all figured out, but to people that have brought their wounds before the Lord in a group and experienced healing and now are simply trying to pass on that experience. And so I'd really encourage anyone listening just to take advantage of what's in place. Not because you're weak and can't figure it out, but because we all need help and we all need encouragement. We're all wounded healers together. And the more we get insight and input from one another, the stronger our groups will be and the better the experience will be for those that are going through them.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, as I'm thinking about what you guys are saying, for me, rgls are there for a reason. Use them for what they're there for. It's like standing at the. That's like standing at the tee box of a 600 yard golf hole and you don't have a club with you. And instead of using a club, you just want to throw the golf ball down the fairway and see how far you can get. And it's like, no, pick up your driver. That's what it's there for. Use it and take advantage of that. It's going to help you get there a lot faster, more efficiently, and it's really going to help you figure it out without making a bunch of mistakes along the way. And so for me, whether that's a great illustration or a terrible one, it's just something that our Gls are there for a reason. We have set them up. These people are volunteering their time because they've been there and they will help you. They will add benefit to your ministry that you probably didn't know was possible. And so push in and just pick up the club because they're there.

Yes, sir.

Well, okay, the chambers, you guys have done it. You have finished the episode. You guys are such an important piece to our ministry. And not just that you serve as this role of rgl, but also that you guys are just advocates for getting healthy, spiritually, emotionally, physically. And so if you guys out there listening are a group leader or interested in reaching out to your RGL, visit PureDesire.org RGLs and look up for. Look up your RGL connection and consistent contact with them is super important when it comes to maintaining this good fight. And if you want to overcome sexual brokenness, this is not something you can do on your own. So consistent connection with your RGL will help, will help you, will help promote strong and healthy groups, and they'll both mentor and train you. So, Ernie, Jackie, thanks so much for hanging out with us today. We really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Way to go, you guys.

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