052 – 8 Tips For Launching Groups

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Hey, guys, this is Dr. Ted Roberts. I hope you'll join me on September 15th at Good Shepherd Community Church for a Pure Desire men's conference. A time where you can pursue a life of integrity, strength, and leave a legacy of real significance. Learn to really kick the enemy's tail. Go to PureDesire.org events. Enjoy the podcast.

Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo, and we are here.

To pump you up.

I'm gonna be honest with you, that's the best one I've heard to this point.

It only took 52 episodes. 52.

That's great. You know, this is the 52nd episode. So if you've been listening to the.

Podcast, this is our year, the one year anniversary.

The one year aversary, the podcast Iversary.

That is something else.

Yes. So today we have with us our guest who is our men's international groups coordinator, Rich Moore. Rich, welcome back, my friend.

We're glad to be here.

We are glad to have you. We're glad to have that deep baritone voice on the episode. It is really nice. It kind of evens us out a little bit.

That's right.

So today's episode is focused on launching Pure Desire groups. So. So we're gonna talk through eight tips that we really, we've seen work. Things that we see are very important to starting groups in the best way possible. So due to the nature of these groups, the fact that we're addressing sexual addiction and healing from the effects of it, it's easy to just wanna jump right in and just start groups. Do it as quick as you can, don't worry about it. Just go. And we're here to tell you, don't do that. When it comes to groups for men and women, whether they're addicted or it's spouses who are betrayed, this type of ministry is not an easy one to start. And that is, is usually why people want to jump in so quickly. But you really need to know that this is really, really important. How we set up groups, how we get going, the culture we create is really, really important.

Well, I think at the same time, we want to make sure not to scare anyone away from it because the tips that they're going to hear today are pretty basic. They're straightforward, they're very Doable, but they are the kind of things that if you take these steps initially, it's going to create a much, much smoother process for the group moving forward.

Right.

One of them is not going to be get your master's degree in counseling.

And read 17 books.

Absolutely, absolutely. So we hope our conversation today will encourage you just to be intentional and thoughtful as you begin a group ministry for men and women that are affected by this issue. So, guys, let's just jump in with tip number one. And the first tip is to create an environment of grace and acceptance. Nick, talk to us about it.

Yeah, that's so important because around this issue, many, many men and women are battling a really deep issue with shame. And what's kind of challenging is some people don't even realize that's what it is. They just know they don't want to talk about it, they'd rather not deal with it. They want to move on. And sometimes for us as the leader, if we've been through the experience, we've walked through that place of shame into more grace and we understand the subject differently, we're maybe experiencing some traction and freedom. And so we need to remember that for someone at the very beginning, the front end, it might still be very shameful. And the people who come to the group, or at least are checking it out, are going to be on a broad spectrum that some maybe are pretty comfortable with their past and their flaws and they'll just, you know, lay it all out there. While others, it was a miracle of God that they walk in the door and you need to be really ready to create that environment that for the, you know, if one person comes and they've told their story a million times. Yeah, it's maybe not as crucial for them, but you want to set up the environment to be very accepting and grace filled for that person. That is, they're just on their edge of their seat thinking, can I even stay for this?

So, Rich, what does that look like? What does it look like to create that culture up front?

Well, you just have to be able to create a safe space, safe spot for them to meet. And that really starts by the facilitators. Got to set the tone of the meeting. I always share my story when we have the new, when we have new guys come in and then what that does is it kind of eases attention and really allows them to kind of soak it in.

Yeah.

And you can ask them, hey, you can share as much as you want. You can share as little as you want and not to Pressure them, feel like they have to let everything out the first night. So it's really just creating that environment where they feel comfortable, accepted, because, like, Nick said, something they've never felt before walking in the door.

So, I mean, I think that one of the things that comes to mind is not putting up banners that say, welcome all sex addicts or welcome all betrayed spouses or, you know what I mean? It's not something that you're making public. This is what people are coming to do. You're not hiding it, but you're also not. You're not creating this space where you have to admit that you're, you know, you've got this crazy issue to come to one of these groups.

A couple other tips along the lines of acceptance and grace. I always make sure that first night to make some kind of statement about it doesn't matter what you're here to address the roots and the things we're going to look at come from the same place. Because you may have one person there who's battling lust in their mind and another person that's over the edge in affairs and acting out with other people or others that feel like their behavior may be something with same sex or a fetish they consider to be very perverted or weird. And they're very, very fearful of that being discovered. And so up front, you just want to say, hey, all issues are okay to discuss in this group. We don't want to make you feel like you've got to hide anything and something. Also, it's an area where people can tend to joke about things because we're uncomfortable. So we might joke about, you know, those people or a certain kind of sexual struggle, not realizing that something we're joking about is the person next to us. Deepest, darkest secret. And so I try as a facilitator to just say, hey, we want to be very careful about making fun of anything because we've all got stuff that is hard for us to know how to talk about. So let's just be mature, let's be kind, let's be considerate. And one other just real quick tip. Even the group itself, you know, what we're talking about is like an introductory meeting. Hey, come check this out. But even that meeting should be anonymous and confidential, meaning that someone could show up without having to be on a list or anyone else knowing that they were going. I've had a lot of people show up that they told their wife, hey, the church is starting some men's group. I'm going to go check it Out. And if they've done zero disclosure, disclosure with their spouse, that's okay. Like, if that's what it takes to get them in the door, just make sure that environment is created. I'll usually have, like a text number in the church bulletin.

Yeah.

To say, hey, if you're interested in this group, text this number. And you'll find out the time and place. So, again, that might seem like overkill to some that are listening, but when you've got people really battling shame, it's some of that freedom that I can go in really quietly and anonymously. That could be what gets them over the edge.

Yeah, that's awesome. And so we're going to jump right now to the second tip. And, Rich, you kind of dived into this a little bit already, but the idea of sharing your story. So give us a little bit more on that.

Yeah. I came up with a verse that we all know. Revelations 12, 12, 11. This one's in the New American Standard Bible. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony. I think the power of our story is more powerful than we really know. And you see it play out in group, you know, when we're sharing and we're vulnerable and we model what really. I call it vulnerable transparency. When we really model that in group and we're able to share whatever, what it does is it starts opening up. Those guys that have a hard time sharing and they're able to share because now they feel like, well, if he shared that, I can share this. It's no longer about, boy, I'm not as bad as he is, or he's, you know, like Nick said in the last question, it's more of the roots and not the fruit. So we're looking at why we did what we did. And part of the process is just being able to share our story and realizing that if I share my story, it's going to help the guy next to me.

Yeah.

Well, I think something you said earlier is important, too, that if you, as the leader, being really open about your story, you should then go on to say, now, I'm not expecting any of you to share that right now. In fact, avoiding that pressure, because sometimes groups will do, you know, I've shared mine. Okay, now it's your turn. And other people just aren't ready. But what you can say is, one of the great things you'll get out of this group is that freedom to tell your story. And so for tonight, you don't have to share Anything you're not ready to. And what I'll usually say is, let's go around and just share one minute about, you know, why we're thinking of joining the group, why we're here. And some guys will just say, I'm curious to know more. And that's totally fine for the night. So as we share our story, we want to make sure it does not put pressure on others to go that deep. But sometimes guys will. And I just kind of roll with that as guys open up, but make sure no one feels pressure.

Yeah, and one of the things, too. Just another option. Rich, you and Dave came down, and you guys shared your story at our group. So it was something where, you know, I was already talking to you about launching the group, getting it going. You guys came down, and you guys shared your story, and both of you got some, like, crazy stuff in your story. And so for some guys, it was like, okay, like, I can. If this guy can do this group, I can do this group. You know, so it. It diminishes shame when you came and you shared your story. And so that's also an option if. If you maybe don't know how to share your narrative if you're kind of in that season. You know, there's also the option of getting an RGL or another group leader from around your area to come and just share his experience and his story.

Yeah, you really. You can really see the chains break when, you know, like Nick said, when we don't pressure those guys in group, we just let them kind of go a little bit and really encourage them. And we continue to share. Once they open up and they really get it all out there. You just see this huge pressure kind of weight off their chest. Just lift.

Yeah, it's awesome.

All right, so tip number three for launching groups well is all about covering the group guidelines. Cover all the group guidelines. So, Rich, why is that so important up front?

Very, very important. It's a question we get very frequently. A lot of times it's like, oh, I didn't even know there was group guidelines. Well, the importance of covering the group guidelines is really to establish kind of what we've been talking about. We're setting the tone in group. We are basically setting the group up for success. So there's specific things that are in group that we're gonna follow certain steps. Confidentiality. There's just all these pieces that really fit together, almost like a puzzle, because, you know, if you're doing a puzzle and you're missing some pieces, well, you're gonna be missing some stuff in group, and, you know, things will be said or things aren't getting done, and it can really cause a group to struggle and gain momentum. So you really got to follow these group guidelines. And they're really birthed out of dumb tax.

Yeah, absolutely.

They all have a purpose.

Right. And I think as a leader, too, when you cover them, you're making sure that you're telling guys, I need you to hold me accountable with this too. So it's a. It's an ownership that you're giving guys and gals about group. You're saying, hey, if I'm the leader and I step out of line, I'm giving you the keys to come in and tell me, hey, you know, you broke this guideline. Let's address it.

When it's one of those things that's actually more important later than it is in the moment, you're doing it because you might go through all those group guidelines and you'll look back on the night and feel like, well, that was kind of a lame part. That took a lot of time. Why did I do that? But two months down the road, when someone's abusing one of those guidelines and you can say, hey, do you remember on the intro night, we walked through those guidelines and talked about them? And one of those says, no rabbit trails. And you remember us talking about that, and they're like, well, yeah, so now you're referring back to something the group already agreed to at the beginning versus trying to correct someone when they've gone off. And I think it's funny that you referred to it as a puzzle, Rich, because I was thinking of it like a game that if you start playing a game and you don't know the rules, it's not going to be near as much fun to play. And so when you know the rules and you can play within them, then it really is a great experience.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah. So we're going to move on to the next tip number four, and this one is for Trevor. Trevor, can you go over the memo of understanding and why this is such an important step?

Yes.

So going over the memo of understanding. So in my mind, really, it sets up the standards for the group and sets up accountability. You know, there's a piece of it that covers the church legally if some stuff goes down in group. But I think it's really important just to set the tone up front. You know, it's one of those things. I just feel like when guys get into group, they're going to want to share what's going on. And then when betrayed spouses, it's just. It's easy to go into a group and want to just bash and just share and just vent. And so a Memo of Understanding really creates. It's a tool put in place really, to help you create that culture of being able to stay on task, being able to stay kind of within the framework that the Pure Desire groups are set up for. And really this is for the leader, for the member, but also for the church. Just keeping that in mind that the church having these signed on file at the church is going to have some legal ramifications and then also a lot of accountability there.

Yeah. What we usually do in group is have everyone sign that and then we photocopy it so that we can keep one copy in a church office in a safe, confidential place, but that they still have it in their books so they can see what they've signed. And it's really a CYB policy, cover your butt. It's those things that you hope never happen, but you're trying to tell someone ahead of time, hey, we don't want you to get into trouble because of something you share here. We don't want the group to be in an awkward place because of something you share here. So we want you to have freedom, but within reason. And it really becomes kind of a safeguard that now people know, they know what's within bounds and they can really go for it because they know the expectations.

Yeah. I think that one thing I've had quite frequently is after the Memo of Understanding, a gentleman will come up to me after group and they'll say, hey, I have stuff to share. And I'm kind of nervous, so I'll let them know, kind of go back over the Memo of Understanding a little bit and let them know that there's certain things that, you know, as a group leader or church that were mandatory reporters or, you know, just kind of go over that, because I can sense that that conversation is going to go there. And that's just one thing that's going to happen, or not always, but it will happen.

Yeah.

And you just have to be prepared and walk them through that, that you know those steps and let him know if this is something that he's going to talk about. Then there's. These are the steps we have to take. He's already signed a Memo of Understanding, so he already knows that there's going to be some potential consequences.

Well, that's a hard reality of these kind of groups, is that we're Going to deal with some ugly stuff. But I try to approach it as a leadership, from a leadership point to say, we want to help you deal with that stuff if you need to, but we want you to deal with it in the way that's best for you and for others. And so, you know, having a list of local counselors or peer desire counselors that you can refer to, referring someone back to a pastoral staff member, because in most states, and this is something you need to check in with whatever state your group is in. In most states, you know, pastors and priests have that privilege that they don't have to mandatory report. They could receive your confession of what's gone on in your life and then advise you about what steps to take. And so I always try to make that point with a group member to say, we want to help you deal with it. But probably if it's. If it's something illegal, if it's something that happened when you were a kid or with other kids, or there's. There's violence that went on, let's get you to the right expert that knows how to help, because that is often a part of someone's healing journey. We just want to make sure the group isn't suddenly going, oh, my goodness, what do we do with this information?

Well, in the memo of understanding will help create and facilitate that conversation. So really it helps you get that conversation, have those conversations up front so you don't find yourself in that messy situation later down the road.

Correct.

Well, it's good too, to remember this isn't like every group member. I mean, in my experience, in like, six groups that I led at my church, this really was an issue one or two times. I don't know. How often would you say, rich, is it 2 to 5% of the time this is an issue, I think, with.

Me, I don't know if I can put a percent on it because it's. It's happened quite a bit. And I think part of that is, is when I share my story with these gentlemen up front, they feel safe enough to come to me. Because part of the reality is that when we share our story, if there is issues that are legal issues that are going to be involved, I let him know that, you know, the consequences of my actions were the very same, very thing that saved my life. And sometimes, even though we know the consequences are gonna be bad, but it's the very thing we need or we're really not gonna get help. And so I just kind of walk them through the process. I do Let them know you might want to talk to an attorney or, you know, or just to protect yourself. And. And, you know, most of the time, the guys are like, okay, well, this is something I got to do.

Yeah.

All right. So moving on to tip number five, maybe turning the corner towards a little more positive looking. Because sometimes the memo of understanding does feel. I mean, honestly, it's a little bit of a heavy part. Like, hey, here's kind of the outline if you got stuff to deal with. But number five, the tip here is to communicate the commitment level. What do we mean by that?

Yeah, so the commitment level, meaning this is going to take a lot of work. And so understanding upfront, getting into it, that people in your group need to come prepared. And really, the biggest reason I've seen through my group experience, why you need to stress the commitment level is that if you have group members showing up and they're not doing their work and they're just peppering in comments and things they're thinking about on the spot, a lot of different things can happen. One of those things is group members start to feel unsafe. So I don't feel safe sharing my stuff because you're not putting in the work and sharing your stuff.

So.

So you're making comments or maybe, you know, if you haven't done your group, oftentimes you kind of take the posture of, like, the passenger, and you're. You're trying to help this person understand what's going on rather than just focusing on what you wrote down. And so the biggest thing for me, and that's just been my experience, is that group becomes unsafe if people aren't doing their work. And so you have to stress it up front. So you help create, like we said in tip number one, that safe culture of grace and acceptance.

Yeah. I think, you know, we tell guys this is gonna be the toughest thing they've ever done in their life.

Yeah.

But the most rewarding thing. And if you. If you put in 50%, you're gonna get 50%. You put a hundred percent, you're gonna get a hundred percent out of it. It's a process, and it's not gonna be something that's gonna be one. And, you know, three weeks, four months, six months. I mean, it's. It's. It's a process, and they have to be fully committed to that process. Mm.

Well, and I know this one can be hard for me because I tend to be a people pleaser, and I'm an includer, and I want you. It's like, just Come, just do it. You can make it, you know, that positivity. But on the other hand, if you're too inclusive, if you set that low bar, you're going to have people in it because you invited them. But they never really committed to the process personally. So by setting that high bar, we mean things like that. Group attendance is a priority, that unless they're deathly ill or out of town on something unavoidable, they need to be in group, need to do your homework, need to do your phone calls. And if that weeds someone out, you know, if someone goes, man, I just. I can't hack it. That's actually a very good thing because what it means is they're not ready to do the work it will take to get free. And just like you said, Trevor, it really will hold the group back. It'll hold everybody back because someone is only half in. And it tends to change how much I work and how much I share. But on the flip side, when everyone is all in, they're committed to the process and committed to one another, the traction guys and gals can get is really remarkable. So if you're like me and you're a people pleaser and includer, this is one of those areas. You just got to be willing to set the bar high. And if someone isn't ready for it, see that as a positive thing, because then the experience for the rest of the group will be that much better. And honestly, it's hard because I've watched some people say no, that I'm like, they'll have shared their story with me, and I'm like, you need this group so bad. But I can't want it for them. They have to want it for themselves.

Absolutely.

All right, so moving on to the next tip number six. Nick, can you talk to us about stressing confidentiality?

Yeah. I think it's important just to remind people that what setting group stays in group and that that's an absolute even with our spouses. Because again, as we talked about earlier, you're gonna have some people share things in that group that they have never shared with anyone before. And the only way some people are going to get there, if they have a really high confidence level that it goes no further than this room. And I get situations where people feel like, well, I could tell my spouse, right? And it's like, well, no, because they've not committed to confidentiality. And even if you're like, well, I can tell the story and change a few details, and, you know, it's a small world Especially with social media and the Internet, and things can get figured out and pieced together. And so what we say is, you know, you are always free to share your story. You can share your experience of what you learned in group or what you felt. But if you want to share anything about anyone else in the group, even to tell a part of their story, you really need to have their permission to say, hey, I think it would. And I've actually had situations where you realize, boy, it could be helpful if I shared this with my spouse, and we could see if we could get our spouses to talk to each other. Would that help? And I'll bring that up to say, could I share this piece and see if that creates a conversation? And. But other than that, you just have to know, if I share it here, it's gonna stay here, because that'll give people confidence to open up.

And here's the thing, and I've had an experience with this where what happens is trust in the group is now broken. So if confidentiality is broken in a spouse, you know, and that's been my experience, I had a group member tell their significant other about someone else's. Some of their disclosure, some of their story, and it caused dissension in their personal relationship. Both couples. But then also, when we got to group, man, you could feel the chill in the group. Everyone's guarded. Their walls are back up. They've turned their shoulders away. And now group. And the way that it works, man, it just. It is not the same. Like, once that trust is broken and it's not a safe place anymore, man, the entire group suffers. So if anything, if I can say any reason to stress confidentiality, it's for the benefit of the group that it stays, because the group will suffer if trust is broken.

So I'm curious. What do you guys do when you've had the situation where you're in a public setting, like maybe at church, and you're with your spouse and you bump into someone and you realize, the only reason I know this person is from group. So how do I, like, say hi to them or introduce them to my spouse? What have you guys done?

You ask them, have you masturbated this week? No. You don't do that. You do not. Rich, you could probably speak to this a lot better than I could. What do you think?

Well, that happened to me. I was in the hall after a church service, and a friend of mine's wife came up to me and started asking me questions about only I had shared in group. This is probably about 15, 20 years ago. And you know, even back then we really didn't have group guidelines and all this stuff. But still what was said in group stays in group. And so I was kind of like, you know, a deer caught in headlights and not sure how to respond and literally just kind of turned and walked away. But it is uncomfortable and like you said, Trevor, I think what it does is it now it creates this unsafe place in group where you're guarded because your friend said something or one of the guys said something. And what it does is it really kind of backs the group up. Now it's going to take, you can lose a lot of traction months and.

Months and months to get back.

Yeah, yeah. Before guys feel safe to share again.

Yeah, it's miserable. Alright guys, well let's keep going. Step number seven. Almost there. So this one we've titled Easy In, Easy Out. What are we talking about?

I think it's the approach to this whole meeting. Like what we've been talking about is your first night together. And when I launch a group I make it clear that that first night is kind of the come check it out, no strings attached. And I'll even say at the end of the meeting like if you've heard all this, you've heard my story, you've heard what the group's about and you decide it's just too much for you. Just walk away and I'm not gonna chase you down. I really communicate to people the ball is in your court and if you want to be a part of this, I'd love to have you go on this journey with me. But you need to opt in. So that's kind of the idea of they have an easy out if they go home and decide not to move forward, that that was their choice. Because what it is doing right up front with the group is creating that expectation that your change is your responsibility, not mine, not the church's, not the rest of the group's, not your spouse's. So what I'll do at the end of the meeting is say so you've got the memo of understanding and the Covenant contend. And when you have signed those and you've bought your material, then you're in. And that's how I know you're in because you've signed it and you've given me a copy of what you've signed. So I know that you understand everything we've talked about and really that's your entrance into the group. And then I'll say until I see that I'm assuming that you're not in, and that's okay. So put the ball in their court. It's an easy. I mean, all you got to do is sign a piece of paper to say I'm in. But I make it clear that signature means I'm committed and I'm going on this journey and doing whatever it takes.

Well, let me qualify this too. It doesn't mean that as a group leader or facilitator that you can't be bummed that that person isn't in group. That's okay. You can be bummed or sad or even upset, but it's the fact that you're not gonna hound them, right? You're not gonna, like, follow them and text them every day like, hey, you're gonna join group this week? What about this week? What about. So you're really. You're allowing that person to do it, but it's okay to still be bummed if someone's not going to enter into that healing journey?

Well, and it seems like the caring thing to do, right? It's like I'm just being a good guy, like, trying to help him. But you are creating this dynamic in the relationship that I'm going to help you change. And if you're getting off track, I'll come fix it for you. And long term, that. That just doesn't lead to change. It leads to enabling. It leads to, well, Trevor didn't help me out. He didn't call me. And so then I got into a bad week, and now it's. It's easy to blame shift. And yeah, so, yeah, it's actually the loving thing to do, to let them make those choices. But you can still be bummed for sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah. I do the same thing, Nick. I just share with them that if they're not ready, I say, hey, that's okay. So when you're ready, I'll be here. The groups will be here for you. Never want to pressure them because they've been pressured their whole life. That's why they've been acting out. That's why they've been doing stupid for so long because they got all these stresses and they now they don't know how to deal with it. Now they come to group and the last thing we want to do is say, hey, you need to be here every week and do this, this, and this. And for some guys at the turn off, they're like, well, I'm coming here so I don't have to feel any pressure anymore. So when they're ready, they'll show up.

Well, it's even like a shame thing, right? Like, so shame about this topic in the church is something they consistently hear. And so if they're coming, if they even show up to launch night of your groups, that's a win. And so if you shame them up front like that too, they're getting shamed from all over and they're just going to, like, they're going to spiral. That's what's going to happen. That person is going to spiral because they've got no one to turn to.

All right, guys. Well, this is some good stuff. We're down to tip number eight. Hopefully someone's been taking notes so they can remember all of them, but these have been good. Tip number eight is this have material on hand for everyone. Why is that such a good thing to do?

That is a great thing to have. We have a vast variety of material, both men's, women's, teens, group material. I think one thing that we have that often gets unlooked, but we get a lot of questions is on our website, on the tools page is the resources for parents for age appropriate conversations. A lot of times that'll be kind of one of those. Those resources that gets overlooked a little bit because we forget, because we're so used to talking about seven pillars and eight pillars of betrayal beyond and everything. So all those materials are great, but let's not forget about the ones that, you know, for our little. For the little kids, those age appropriate conversations. But we have so many great materials and even there's additional materials that we use in our counseling program that, that all tie everything together.

Yeah, it's so important to have materials on hand, especially at this launch night, because. And this is the way that we've kind of seen this topic, is that people, when they come to addressing the issue of sexual addiction, there are already a bunch of hurdles in the way. There's shame, there's maybe the pain that they know they're going to have to face. Maybe they're embarrassed, maybe they've had some abuse or they've done some legal things that they know will have to face the ramifications. And so if you don't have material on hand that night, you inadvertently create another hurdle for that person. Now I have to go onto this website or I have to call in and I have to make this order that feels like an admission of guilt, you know, that somehow feels like that. So if you have stuff on hand, you not only decrease that shame for them, but you also remove a potential hurdle and honestly, it's a really small thing, but could have significant ramifications if you have stuff there on the table in front of them saying, hey, this is yours, take it one.

If the church can order even 5 kits ahead of time, you know, you get a bulk discount. So let's mention that you get five. Yeah. But I think on another point, I would encourage folks kind of related to this tip. I think it's great to have the material on hand, but still it's best to make people purchase their own set for the kit or whatever they're going to be using. Even if the church buys it up front, I always have people buy it back through the church because that's a way then that they're investing, they're committing. And even if you have a great budget and they're like, oh yeah, let's just provide all the material, I mean, maybe knock off some of the price, but you want people to invest in the process. And part of that investing is with their finances. So even I've heard of churches that cover half the cost of a workbook or a kit. So it's only $25. That's great. But I do recommend, at a minimum, make people invest by getting the material. But if you can have it on hand there, it's just one less thing for them to forget or step to go through. And I find that there is that principle of strike while the iron is hot and go for it. So if someone's heard all this information, they're still battling in the back of their mind, doubt and, and fear. And that voice of do not do this, run the other way. But maybe they're feeling, on the other hand, this is the right thing and I need it. And so right there they can sign the commitment, they can get the books, they can leave you their 50 bucks for the kit, and they're in. And that's a huge step where they go home. And it's almost that other voice starts to kick in like, you don't want to do this. And then if they still have to figure out. And to us, it might seem simple, but remember what website it is, where to go, how to find it, which kit, how much do I need? That can be enough for them to listen to that other voice and go, yeah, I'm just not going to do it.

Well, and there's also two things are coming to mind as you're saying that. One, and I'm thinking of like the betrayed spouse. When they come to group, the thought that someone put all this time into A resource to help me heal from my spouse's addiction. That could be really healing in and of itself. It can be like there's actually material that can help me. There's actually something out there that I can dive into and find some, some freedom, some healing from this. But then also I think that especially when I started my first group, I had this sense of pressure. I had to somehow lead the group. Well, and what's awesome is when you have the material there, you realize you're not the one who's facilitating or leading. It's the content that's actually doing it. You're just helping people as they process and go through it. And so it almost relieves pressure from you that just have the person look through the book. You don't have to do all the selling or be a great speaker communicator. And it can just be the actual content and the material that helps really get someone to buy in.

Yeah, I'm going to use a little golf picture here.

Shocker.

Shocker. Yeah, right. So when I pay for golf, you know, it's like I'm going to keep score, I'm going to really play well. Usually if I have a free round of golf, it's like you kind of go swinging left handed, you're just kind of whatever and you're just having a good time and you're really not paying attention. You get in trouble. Well, in group you got a little skin in the game.

Yeah.

So when you got some skin in the game, you're gonna put forth the effort. And if you don't, you know, history, over 20 years of doing groups of guys that don't have skin in the game, they usually don't last very long.

Yeah, guys, this has been awesome. I feel like I've learned stuff through this. Appreciate your time. I think, you know, what we're trying to really communicate is that starting groups for this is potentially not a popular or easy thing to do in a church. And oftentimes churches can just rush into creating groups, especially a purity ministry. And in doing that, they can inadvertently turn people away and turn people away from joining groups if they don't follow these tips, if they don't follow some of the things we suggested. So these eight points will really help you create an open, inviting. And ultimately what we're looking for is a safe place for men, women, students to come and experience grace healing. And really it's true, lasting freedom that these people experience through these groups. So if you're looking for ways to start a group ministry in your church around this topic, around the topic of sexual addiction or betrayal. Our group coordinators like Rich here and also we have Ashley. They're here to actually help you start that. So whether you're in a church, in an organization, in a community, you can talk to them for free. You just reach out to them by emailing groupsuredesire.org Again, that's groupsuredesire.org and they'll help you get your ministry up and running. And I know that Rich and Ashley would love have conversations with you. So guys, Nick, Rich, thanks so much, man. This was awesome.

Great to be here. Thanks, Trevor.

Awesome. And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe. You can also rate and review our podcast and let us know how we're doing. For more information, check out our website, PureDesire.org and you can follow us on social media. EaredesirePDMI. Once again, that's EaredesirePDMI. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to pursue.