056 – Behind The Mask

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast, where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity.

Hey, guys, this is Dr. Ted Roberts. I hope you'll join me on September 15th at Good Shepherd Community Church for a Pure Desire men's conference, a time where you can pursue a life of integrity, strength, and leave a legacy of real significance. Learn to really kick the enemy's tail to register to go to PureDesire.org events. Enjoy the podcast.

Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Ho Hoi.

Oh, my gosh.

What.

What is. What is that?

I'm so glad you asked. I have it on good authority from one of our Pure Desire group members in Ohio that Hoi Hoi was actually what Alexander Graham Bell recommended people use when answering the telephone. But instead, culturally, hello won out. So were it not for others thinking hello was better, we could all be familiar with Hoi Hoi. And maybe we should try to bring it back, huh?

I just. I'm glad that we changed it because Alexander Graham Bell doesn't understand how much you get made fun of if you answer the phone saying hoi Hoi.

But maybe it made more sense back then. I don't.

Sounds like a different language. I'm gonna be honest, it's kinda like.

A ship captain answering the phone.

In Ireland, they say hiya, and that's kind of cool.

Well, before we get too off topic today, we have one of our regulars with us today. She's a speaker and is our international group coordinator for women's groups, Ashley Jamison. Thanks for being here, Ash.

Hiya.

Oh, boy. That's what we've started.

Yeah. Pray for us as we get into this episode. Today, we're gonna be talking about our behind the mask group and group material for young adult women. So Ashley's been through this material personally, where me and Nick have not, so we're gonna lean on her expertise. And so we look forward, really, just, Ash, to your perspective and your insight on this. And then to talk, really, this episode is gonna be about talking about the importance of having these groups available for the women, the young women in your church. So let's just start with this. Ashley, who is this material from? For exactly what ages is it written for?

Well, the age group that it was written for is about 14 to kind of early 20s, right up into that. Maybe college, maybe before college, but that teenage girl is who it's written for, not that that means that's the only person that benefits from it.

So people who necessarily aren't in middle school or high school could still benefit from potentially going through this material.

Absolutely. I've had adult women go through it and I struggle with Circled Back around even when I wasn't leading it. Behind the Mask group. I've done Betrayal and Beyond and eight Pillars and I'm a total dork. So I'll bring things to read all the time with me. And I've actually brought my behind the Mask book with me on the plane and read through the entire thing again just as a refresher. And I couldn't believe how much I I connected more dots by going through it again after going through my own recovery work.

So, Ashley, we may have a number of parents that listen to this episode and they've got 14, 15, 16 year old girls. And as you know, there can be a huge difference in experience and just what's happened in their life between one 14 year old girl and another. So for maybe those parents, what do you say in terms of a girl's struggle in this area? Is it something that she probably needs to have already been struggling with some sexual things before this material really applies? Or if it's someone who's still fairly innocent, if we could use that word, would they benefit from going through the material as well?

Well, both, both types of girls could go through it. And really at the age of 14, 15, even if you homeschool and, or you do Christian school, if you feel like you do a good job of sheltering at 14 or 15, natural hormones and curiosity and you, you'll stumble across things. If you live in our world, you will stumble across things. And so even if you're totally sheltered at 14 years old, that's about the age where this information, I don't feel is going to be traumatizing. If they haven't been through anything, it's just, it's time to start having those conversations with them and then with the other side. If you have a girl who's crossed a lot of boundaries and is stuck in something, a current struggle, she will also benefit too. So I really think it could be preventative awareness for somebody who hasn't been there. And it also could be awareness and give and give some tools to get out of a struggle that a girl is stuck in.

Yeah, I really like that because we do have kind of a cultural reality that people see this as a men's issue, particularly teenage boys. Well, of course Teenage guys are struggling, so we need a group for them. But to recognize teenage and young adult women are facing their own struggles, their own battles in this area. So why would you say, Ashley, is it so important for young women to have this kind of material?

Oh, I think, I mean, I could go on and on. I'm so passionate about giving teens good material and good information about their sexuality because it's so lacking. And me having two teenage sons and being a crazy, wild teenager myself. I just wish I had this because, because they need to understand their sexuality. They were born with it. They're, they're, you know, born to be sexual beings. They're, they're born to eat food. You know, we educate in so many areas. And so this just needs to be a natural part of our conversations with young women so that they understand how to manage their sexuality. I was even talking to my sister the other day. She's a missionary and she homeschools and just reading the Old Testament with her kids brought up all this, well, why is he sleeping with her? And so it's like, even if you're, you know, you cannot escape sexuality. And also learning about mismanagement, even in our Bible, when we're reading to our kids. And so if we're not the ones to help them learn about it in a healthy way, in a God given way, what's normal, maybe not what's healthy, but what's common so that they don't feel shame, then it just opens up more opportunities for them to really live freely in their own skin and know how to manage all of that well.

And there's an element too, of feeling like, and we don't intend to do it because, you know, I'm speaking from my experience as a youth pastor that we would talk to our guy students all the time about purity. We talk about it almost every week and we check in. But with our female students, it wasn't something that we normally had. And so what that can do is that inadvertently, because either we're not educated enough or don't understand enough about this issue that we inadvertently shame them and say like, you can't come forward and you can't talk about it. That's why it's so important to have this for young women, is because it creates that space and creates that openness and that ability to dialogue with them and that they can own that this is something they've struggled with or they thought about or they've heard friends at school talk about it. So it opens really the dialogue for them.

Well, and I think you're so right, Ashley, that there are just not enough places where we have these open, healthy conversations about sex and sexuality from a biblical viewpoint and really help people talk in a really forthright way. It's interesting to me. I see so many people up in arms over, you know, what's being taught at schools and the curriculum, and I'm not speaking for or against that. And I'm sure there's good reasons to maybe oppose some sort of teaching that you feel is way too liberal or one sided. But my point is, I often wonder if as churches and parents, are we as passionate about creating those conversations in our homes and churches as we are about opposing what's happening in our schools? And I think, you know, if parents and churches were more proactive about addressing this where we should be and in the right places, maybe it wouldn't matter as much what schools do, because schools have become a secondary place of learning versus kids and students learning in the homes and under the care of youth pastors and leaders that really want to invest in them for health and to help them understand their faith in light of their sexuality.

Yeah, you know, and our, our girls and women, I mean, I work with women every day, all day, and the story is the same throughout so many of their lives that it really starts with wanting to feel loved or something, or seeking attention. And I can't tell you how many conferences or sermons I've sat through as a teenage girl where the girls are told not to be stumbling blocks and to make sure we're dressing modestly and our girls are struggling sexually. They don't need to just learn how to dress modestly. They need to learn how to manage their own sexuality. And so it is important that we, as a ministry, as church, as parents can, can help these girls that are struggling sexually and not shame them that it's a boy thing and that their job is just to make sure they don't cause a boy to stumble. Because fantasy is a big one for girls. And that's all stuff they're struggling with.

So what's the primary message then behind this resource? So someone grabs a copy of behind the Mask and they're looking through it. What's going to be the primary message that is taught throughout?

I think what it really does, yes, we address sexuality and healthy boundaries and anger, wearing false identities. But it really comes down to authentic living in the way that Christ designed them so that they really can feel confident in who Christ designed them to be and they can figure out what lies are attached that are Maybe not allowing them to live that out fully. It will help them be able to live their life without having that filter of, I wonder if I'll get noticed if I do that. Or I wonder if this will make him like me. Or I wonder this will. They can just live confidently as young women and feel loved and unconditionally loved by their heavenly Father and learn how valuable they are so that hopefully they can stand strong when they do come into those tempting situations. And then of course, all the other stuff, the practical, the dating plan, the Internet plan, those things come along, but really it's about understanding their value and their identity and, and being confident in that.

Well, I think it's an exciting focus, Trevor, because that theme of authentic living is something that runs through a lot of the pure desire material, and it really is something that's applicable to us not just in our sexuality, but in all areas of life, that if we can understand who I am in Christ, who. Where my value really comes from, and that I don't have to wear masks or perform or be something I'm not, to get love, that's going to impact every area of a person's life. And so it's just exciting to see how we can begin to train that into our young people so that they, hopefully as they grow, they don't have to enter into some of the same mistakes that many of us did in trying to find our identity while wearing a mask and having this secret life under the surface.

Well, and the reality is we live in a world that's a filtered world. I mean, you go on to any social media platform, you go on to any video platform, and it's all filters and it's all making sure that you look right in the right lighting and you make sure there's no double chin. There's just so many different things that, that the world teaches us. And so the fact that this message can start to seep into the life of a young adult, whether it's a male or female student, it can be so exponentially beneficial for their life moving forward and really can start to create a culture of authentic people in your youth group. Because I'll tell you what, when a student's able to own where they're at and own the struggles and the issues that they have, that is a wide open door for you to minister and disciple that student. And they really start to meet Jesus. The more vulnerable they are, the more grace is able to seep into their life, and the more they understand who God is and their relationship to them. So it's such a cool thing to see this message really start to play out and change the culture around you.

Yeah. I had a teenage girl that I took through. She was a senior, and she was so scared to confess that she was struggling with pornography. And we took her through and taught her how to be vulnerable and honest and that she's loved no matter what she's struggling with. And she worked really hard on using the tools to. To gain some sobriety and health, and she did really well. But about a year and a half later, she, you know, like almost every human stumbled and had a relapse. And what she told me was, now that I've learned how to live without secrets, I cannot bear the feeling of even having a secret. It's become so such a nasty feeling for me. I don't even like living like that. And it was really cool to just see her become addicted to living free without secrets and being honest instead of hiding in shame and isolation.

Yeah, it's awesome.

So, Ashley, maybe someone is in leadership at a church or a pastor. They're listening to this podcast, and the reality is, you know, churches are busy. Youth ministries have a lot going on. Why would you encourage them to have groups like this amidst all the other things that maybe they're trying to focus on as a church or youth group?

Well, I get being a leader and having lots of things brought to you that are good ideas. There's lots and lots of good ideas out there. But I would say that because the struggles and sexuality are so large and so massive, it really is. I mean, if you look at problems in our youth group, sexuality, and the struggles the kids are having with, that is probably the biggest area of struggle over drugs, over alcohol. And so it makes sense, one, to have groups for the area that the kids are struggling in most. And two, because if the church leaders don't offer this, then it just reinforces that whole idea of this is my outside of church life, and this is my inside of church life. If they can't be fully themselves in the church, and if there's not groups like this. The thing I love about peer desire is that all of the. The work is in the book, and so the leaders don't have to be counselors or anything like that. And when you can equip the leaders with information on how to respond to kids that come to them with these issues, then right there is probably the most precious opportunity. You will have to show them how loved they are unconditionally, and how it was good that they were Honest. Rather than giving them, I mean, a well meaning church answer of, you know, go practice putting on the armor again or things that I was told in youth group that did not work for me. And then it just makes them want to not come back again because they're embarrassed that they've failed again. And really what it is is they're lacking tools.

Right. And it's just not a safe place. It's not a place I can go. And people love me for who I am because I can't actually show them or tell them who I am. You know, another thing too that I just, as a former youth pastor, something I experienced is that if you begin to have these conversations, what you do, there are a lot of parents out there who don't know how to start this conversation with their kids. There's a lot of them that are afraid, feel like they'll screw it up or because they've struggled with pornography or sex when they were that age, that they don't have any clout with their kid to share. So what's really cool is that if you start conversations in youth group and you have these type of groups available, what you do is you actually help start that conversation and you can either support or supplement those conversations that parents can have. This will bring it to the surface and maybe conversations can happen at home because the reality is if you are a youth leader or youth pastor, your job is not supposed to parent these kids. Everything you do should be supplementing what happens at home. And so in some ways, you can kind of help kickstart these conversations just by opening up this safe spot and space where you can talk about issues that parents don't really know how to address.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And I think kids are longing for that safe place. I mean, I've never been a teenage girl, but I was a teenage boy that went to youth group every week. And I remember. Yes. Just so we know, as a teenage boy, I learned a lot of great stuff at youth group. I learned a lot about Christ and the Bible and how to pray and was built up in my faith. But under the surface for me was always this issue in my life and it never got talked about. You know, and we'd do prayer time and it was the thing you'd bring up to have an unspoken prayer request. This was always my unspoken prayer request. And I just, I look back at that age in my life and I was, I would say I was dying emotionally to have someone enter into that part of my world and help me understand it. I wasn't probably going to volunteer the information. But if a loving, caring adult had walked me through a process, I just think of the pain and the struggle and the addiction it could have saved me from, because at that age in my life, it was fresh. It was never something I was trying to enter into. It just. It kept happening, and no one talked me through it. And so I think whether it's a teenage boy or a teenage girl, that's an experience many are still having, that this is the thing under the surface that's killing them, but no one's talking about it. And so they're left thinking, I have to do it by myself.

Yeah, Nick. And that brings up a thought that I've had when I was growing up in youth group that I had already been in my own sexual addiction for years and had slept with people. And here I am in youth group trying to turn over a new leaf and had been, I'm quoting in the air, clean and sober from all of that sleep stuff for a good year. But the conversations around me from the other kids about kids that had experienced sexual behaviors or anything like that were so hard on me because I knew what they thought of those girls. And I just kept feeling like if they find out that I'm one of those girls that's done those things, they won't want to be my friend anymore. And so I think it's really important as leaders, but also to teach all of the youth group how to be a culture of grace towards others and for them to understand that we all struggle in an area of sin, it just looks different for other people.

So, I mean, we, you know, just through that question, just are addressing a lot of different reasons why to create this space, why it's important for churches to have this. So let's say a church does want to do this and wants to move forward with these groups or having this space, whether it's pure desire or another type of purity ministry, whatever it is. How do leaders, volunteers, pastors, parents, how do they encourage young girls to sign up and be a part of these groups?

Well, my favorite is always sharing a testimony. So if you want to start a girls group, then I would have a female go up there at the youth group and share their story from when they were a teenager. That's exactly how we launched it at our church. And right off the bat, we had 30 to 40 girls who wanted to go through the groups just from me sharing my experience of being a teenage girl struggling. And I. And I also made it clear that if they wanted to Learn tools going forward, even if they haven't struggled in those areas, that this is also a group for them. And we had, we had way too much interest. The girls were just hungry for an environment like that. And so if a church doesn't have somebody that's willing to share, then it's going to be really hard. I mean, you can't just have the pastor up there saying to the girls, hey, we have this group for girls that are struggling with sexual issues or want to learn going forward how to be a good Christian submissive wife. That's not going to work. So it needs to be somebody that's been there, who understands it and can connect with the girls first emotionally and then invite them in to learn what they have learned through the resource.

Well, and here's the funny thing too. And you see this in youth groups all over the country and all over the world, probably you've got this like once a year we check the box off of a relationship series, right? Where one of the weeks we talk about sex and it's like, okay, whew, done with that. I can check that off the box and move on to something more exciting that the kids don't understand or know how to spell this word. I'm gonna teach next week. So it's like we rushed through it. And so what I think needs to be understood is that if you look at even just like when we were teenagers, it was all about relationships. It was all about, I wanna be in a relationship with this guy or this girl, or I wanna be dating this person or that person. Every high school student, every junior high student, whether they admit it or not, are thinking about relationships, are thinking about the opp or I mean, and we've gotten to the point now where it's like there are students who struggle with same sex attraction. So it's like there is this dynamic where relationship is like the one thing we don't talk about, but it's one of the main things kids are craving to learn about. And so the ironic thing is that if we don't offer these groups and we don't offer a space where there's continued conversation about that, then kids get one great sermon that they forget later that night and go through the rest of their year thinking, oh, well, I'll just figure this relationship thing out, rather than creating that consistent ongoing touch point. And these groups can help do that. Where it's not even just focused on sexuality, but it's focused on how to be in a godly relationship with the opposite gender.

Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah. So, Ashley, as you find teenage girls are becoming interested in joining a group or young adult women, do you just have all of them join the same group, or do you handle it differently? How do you approach forming the groups?

I would try to categorize the groups not by grade, which a lot of youth groups are separated into their life groups, connect groups, small groups, whatever they call them, by grades, because, like, we all know some. You may have a ninth grader who's struggling with sexual addiction, and you could have a senior who's a virgin and never done anything and just wants good advice going forward. And so you don't want to necessarily just assume because of their grade that they go together, if at all. You can do some vetting, and there are different ideas for that. At our church, we just passed out a little confidential survey to the girls, and we just had three categories. We said, a, you want some good tools going forward. You haven't crossed any boundaries, but you want to learn how to walk out your sexuality and health moving forward. B, you've crossed some boundaries and you've come back, but you want to be able to process what happened and then see you're stuck right now. And so we kind of just would talk to the girls more privately about those three categories, and they would let me know I'm stuck somewhere sexually, or I've done some things in my past and I'm not now, but I want to process that. And we group the girls together like that.

I think that's a really great idea, Ashley. But I could imagine that for the girls that are willing to acknowledge I'm stuck, that could still be shameful if it's identified. Like, oh, there's the group for the girls that are really stuck and in a bad place. So how did you keep that maybe confidential or safe, where they felt the freedom to admit I'm stuck and not worry that everyone else would know that, oh, I'm in that third group, you know, I'm really bad off.

Yeah. Well, for one, we did not label the rooms A, B, and C. Nobody, like, you know, nobody knew what the groups were. And the second thing is, that's why I think a testimony is so important, because after I shared about my sexual abuse as a child, being raped as a virgin, having my own sexual addiction with masturbation and guys, and then getting married and getting pregnant as a senior, I mean, it's pretty much like, no shame now. Okay, now do you need the group, too? And I love what my pastor friends did. They're at a church down in Salem, and they really do have, like, the Disney story. They courted each other. Their parents had them meet every week, and they went over new tools, and he took her to Disneyland, and they had their first kiss. When they got engaged at Disneyland, I mean, it was, like, so disgustingly perfect and wonderful. It's like, that is definitely plan A stay in the Garden of Eden, you know. And then they're like, hey, Ashley, we need somebody to share, like, you know, backup plan, like, somebody that's kind of messy. Could you share? And I thought that was really wise to not be a pastor that just says, I waited for my wife. Because that's what I got growing up was my pastor was super open about his sexuality and about how, hey, kids, sex only lasts, like, you know, eight minutes, maybe more, if you're lucky, during the week. And is that worth it to ruin, you know, your life going forward? But he, he, he stayed pure, I guess, for his wife all the way till the end. And so the message still was hard to connect with me. And I think that if you have somebody who gives a testimony and you want to share somebody that did it kind of right, and they can share insight on how they were able to do that in a world, it's awesome. But then to also share, have somebody share that has that messy story. So the shame level is down for the girls. And then don't publicize it. I contacted the girls privately after they gave me back their little private survey. And then we arranged groups. So nobody really even knew what group was what or where it was going or anything like that.

So you're kind of already talking about this, but what are some. As someone stepping into this and wanting to start these groups or begin this type of ministry in their student ministry, what are some do's and don'ts, Some things that you'd encourage them to do and some things to avoid when starting this up.

Do have somebody share their testimony. I would also encourage that you speak in a language that's inclusive. You know, that we struggle with these kinds of things and we need tools and to really not make anybody feel like they're on the outside or that they're the broken one or the category C, whatever, you know, But. And then also, I think a temptation when leading the group, whether you're. Especially if you're a parent. I just experienced this last night with my own teenager. But especially if you're a parent, when they start opening up, whether you're the leader or the parent, it's really tempting to want to give all this advice and to start lecturing and to start, I mean, I've kind of got the whole don't act, you know, shocked by what he's doing and, and don't shame got that part down. But it's still really tempting to want to just flood him with advice and boundaries. And when you finally get a peek into what they're going through and they allow you in that space, it is so important to not jump in and start trying to fix everything. So I would encourage you to just follow the resource. Don't add in other books or I saw this thing on YouTube. I mean, those are great. But it can become overwhelming for the young girls and the resource is really comprehensive. So just, just do the one thing well and then after that's done, if you want to add in other things or continue on, then I would do that there. But I think that's probably maybe one of the areas that leaders struggle is they want to add in too much and it becomes overwhelming.

So kind of a follow up to that. Ashley on the do's and don'ts. Let's say someone who's listening is a youth pastor or youth leader. It's a male. They're at a small church where they're the only leader or the only volunteer, but they see the need for this group should they ever lead that group. As a man with a group of girls, and I assume the answer to that is probably self evident. So the follow up question being how could they go about finding a woman to lead the group if they're just not sure who or where to start?

Yeah, I think that's a really common struggle is trying to find leaders that are willing to do the group. Definitely no, we don't cross the genders as far as leadership. You could just find a mature woman in the church that, you know, could lead the girls through this. But honestly, if the girls are desperate enough for just conversation and there is absolutely no leader, they could get together and go through the resource together themselves just to at least have a safe place to talk about the things. But it's really encouraged that they have a female leader that's healthy to bring them through that. And that could be maybe one of the girl's parents or a counselor in the church that would be willing. Just basically anybody who can read through the resource and then lead it for the girls.

Yeah, and the key, you know, in finding leaders is you're trying to look for someone that's willing to be vulnerable to create that environment in the group. So that girls feel the freedom to open up and be real. But as someone leading a group, if a female is leading the group, is it possible for them to be too vulnerable about their story? What are some guidelines or maybe instruction you might give around going too far with your own vulnerabilities?

Yeah, that's a good question. And even what you said about making sure that the leader is vulnerable. When we first started the groups at our church, I was asked by one of the counselors, how did you get the girls to open up? Because we've tried to lead different groups like this. It wasn't pure desire. And we had a hard time getting girls to attend and to get them to open up. And I think the key is that the leader is sharing her answers first. Because when you just have somebody that wants to go in and teach them something, it's a completely different environment for the girls. And so I would say to answer the questions in the workbook as if you were also a teenage girl. So I talked about my sexual struggles when I was a teenager, about the rape, about the abuse, about the different things I did to try to numb the feelings or escape. I talked about all of that really honestly with the girls because that's what I was going through at, you know, between ages of 14 and 20. I think you could share too much about, you know, Well, I was, you know, I just got a little excited on, you know, Twitter last night. I started looking at images and I masturbated. And now I'm here and I'm a mess, and I don't even know why I'm leading you guys. Like, I don't really think that would be a good idea for a leader to do.

I think that's helpful for anybody, I don't think.

Yeah. And so I do try to connect. I try to answer the books and the resources honestly as I can from that age. But then I also try to connect what they're learning with some real life examples of mine. But they might not be really, really messy ones that I'm currently going through. Just kind of help them see how what I went through, then translate and how I still am not perfect and still using these tools currently.

Well, and really, just to kind of summarize, what you're saying is this isn't going to be your group experience. You need to be vulnerable and you need to share your stuff and invite, you know, these students into sharing their stories with you. But for your own healing, you will also need your own group if you're going through your stuff. Make sure to process that stuff there. Because really, a lot of different things can happen. If you tell a student about your current struggles and they go tell their parents, you may not be a volunteer at the church anymore. Like, they may ask you to step down, or they might not come back because they're uncomfortable. So, I mean, it's going to be like group to group. It's going to be maybe a little bit different. But if you're going through your own personal struggles as a leader, then, I mean, I would suggest finding your healing in your own group, your own group with other adults, rather than try to use this group as your healing.

Yes, and that's a great point, that the best leaders are going to be those that have experienced their own healing. So for Ashley to go into that group and be able to tell her story, she was telling it from a place of health and redemption, not perfection. But she was a little bit down the road of this. She wasn't still in the midst of it. And so that might be an important reminder for someone listening who's in leadership or a pastor to church is there is a temptation where we're like, boy, we need to help the teens, so we better start Top Gun for guys, and we better start behind the Mask for girls, and we need to help our teenagers. But it kind of begs the question, well, who's going to lead these groups? Because if you've got adults that haven't experienced their own healing, they're not going to be able to lead very well. And so, really, one of the best things you can do to help teens in your church community is make sure you help the parents, to make sure you help the adults. Because as you have people in your church community experiencing healing and redemption in their sexual brokenness, they're going to be the very people who are able to turn around and then help teenagers from a place of health and wisdom. And so that'd just be my encouragement to any pastor or leader. I know you want to start with the teens, but you really are better suited to get adults running through it first because they'll become your leaders down the road.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Ashley, sometimes in these settings, due to just being vulnerable and due to sharing what's going on, sometimes some things come up that maybe are legal issues, some things that are disclosed, whether it's rape or sexual assault or something like that. What does a leader do if that sort of stuff comes up in group?

Well, you know, first you want to make sure that before you even leave the group, you do have all of the girls sign the memo of understanding and also if they're under 18, you want the parents to sign too. That was important for us. We did not take any girls through our groups that didn't have that as a church, the youth leadership, we wrote a letter explaining how valuable this group is and kind of just a little bit of the intro of the behind the Mask. And we made sure the parents understood what we were doing and had them sign that memo of understanding. And we let them know that we will be reporting anything that comes up that's illegal or dangerous. And we've had this happen where there's been sexual abuse or rape reported. And so you first want to find out if this had already been taken care of legally. Is this something that they went through and their parents have already dealt with it and they're just processing it in group. That's different. You can just continue to process if something comes up that hasn't been taken care of. You want to work with the teenager to really encourage her and empower her to be the one that shares that with. Hopefully her parents are safe. If it is her parents that are the abusers, then it obviously not to share it with her parents but with the authorities and you can support her by being there. But you definitely want to make sure that you talk her up to be the one to share it with whoever it needs to be, whether it's her parents or authorities. And if she's completely unwilling, then you just have to report it yourself. And that that's following through with the memo of understanding that you're going to do that. And, and it, and it hurts. Especially if you're a youth leader and you've been with, let's say a group of girls for four years and you've built this trust. It's a hard place to be, but it's for their own good and for their own protection.

So to ask a follow up question to that, Ashley, I could imagine a scenario where the parents maybe feel like, well, if my daughter's looking at pornography or if she's been sleeping around with her boyfriend, we want to know about it. And you better tell us how do you navigate that situation? Because I mean, I can imagine if that was the deal going in, there goes vulnerability because girls aren't going to open up because like, well, they're going to tell my parents. And yet maybe those parents are insisting on it. So how would you navigate maybe parents that want everything to be revealed to them?

I would encourage the leadership to have a little parent meeting and obviously Some parents are not going to want to be involved or be like, whatever, I'm glad you're doing it, not me. And that's, you know, that's that. But the ones that, like, you're saying, really want to know everything and be involved. I met with several of the parents. Even when I've done groups out of my home with just, like, the neighborhood girls, I've had the parents come over and I really try to explain to them that I'm gonna report things that I'm required to report. But I need this group environment to be safe for them. And so if they confess kissing a boy or crossing boundaries or even having sex with a boy, I'm not gonna report that to the parents. That's something that I'm gonna strongly encourage the girls to talk to their parents about. And I let the parents know that I'm really trying to push them towards an open and honest relationship with the parent if the parent is, you know, wanting that. And I have seen. I had a group of three girls, they all, like, had their first kiss and came to my front door crying because they felt so bad and so much shame. And I sat with them for probably a good hour and said, you've got to tell your parents. This is like a moment for you with your relationship with your parents. If you don't, you're gonna have all this shame. And, you know, but if you tell them, then. Then it lets them know where you're at. And they all went home and told their parents and came back the next day overjoyed about how their parents responded. And, you know, so I just think it's. It's something where you have to have that safe environment so that they at least have a space to process it.

And it's okay to communicate with parents up front. That that will be your approach if some of that stuff comes up, to try to encourage them to be honest and vulnerable with their parents. Because if. If you're not and that isn't communicated up front, they would never show up to your front door and tell you that stuff. And so you gotta kinda have an understanding with the parents that, look, I'm gonna try to push them to be vulnerable and live in a way that they're honest with you about what's going on. But I can't report every single thing that they tell me because then they wouldn't tell me, like, nothing would come out and none of this stuff would get taken care of.

Yep, exactly.

Well, Ashley, this has been really good, really helpful. I'm sure for many listeners, they maybe weren't even aware that we had a group for teenage girls or had thought about how to help that group in a church or community. Even what you just said about helping girls in your neighborhood. Consider the potential for outreach and evangelism, because for our culture and teenagers growing up in it, this is a huge topic. And we might be able to reach out to others that otherwise we're never going to have contact with. But, man, they'd love to be in a part of a group like this. So just such good information here. And we want to wrap up, as we always do, by asking for. What are some final encouragements that you would give to leaders out there or anyone who's listening, parents and others who see the need for these groups in their churches. How would you encourage them as we wrap up today?

I would encourage them that it feels awkward, but this will be such a good investment if they're pouring into their kids this way or their youth group students. It will be something where you will literally watch the teenager come alive and be more open and relational than they were before. And it's going to help them in all other areas and for churches to not feel overwhelmed that, you know, here at Pure Desire, we offer them so much support. So if they're still not sure what's the best way to start their groups or how to train their leaders to not hesitate to call us or set up a time where we could do a video chat with leaders, we're more than happy to support and help. And that goes for parents as well. If you're a parent out there listening and you need help figuring out how to get started, we're here to support you the whole time.

Yeah. And I think one of the things that just I can be honest and say that I failed at this. I didn't see this as such an important thing or didn't even realize it was such an important thing when I was in youth ministry. But just having the groups really goes a long way. So thinking through, you know, a student, you maybe have a student from sixth grade on, so you've got them for, you know, four, five, six years in your youth group potentially. And maybe they don't jump in when they're in sixth grade or seventh grade, but if you're consistent and you have this space available over time, people will come to a point where, I know there's somewhere I can go, let me start this conversation. And those conversations won't happen if you don't create a space for it. So just having these can be really helpful for students and also for parents, knowing that you care enough about their student to talk about stuff that's really difficult and uncomfortable for a lot of people, but you're willing to address it. That can just go such a long way with families.

I think my final encouragement would be to parents, and my encouragement to you is don't wait. It might take your church or your youth group some time to get traction to start these groups, but you could begin walking through this material with your teenage kids and having those conversations. And so dad's using Top Gun, Mom's using Behind the Mask, and just open up the conversations and walk this journey with them. And as you see health coming into your relationship, that might create, you know, the next step for your church. Who sees, wow, this material seems to be really helpful. You've been telling us about it. So don't wait for the youth group to start it if they're not ready to grab hold of this as a parent and run with it. And I really believe God will bless you and use it as you enter in.

Yeah, this is such a need in churches today. In reality, we don't see many pastors, leaders, volunteers who are educated enough to address this and really don't see it as an issue, but it is an issue. It is something statistically that we see is a major issue today. So this area of sexual addiction or struggle is one that carries a lot of shame. And students today don't always really know how to handle that shame. And so if you're creating. If you're not creating a space for them to come, then you're pushing them further and further down, inadvertently, into shame. So we who have been, those who've been there before, we're here to help. We've had help. There is something to do. We would just encourage you guys to pour into the lives of younger generations in a way that really models vulnerability, openness, and courage to address the issues and the struggles that we have in our lives, because that can go such a long way. So if you're listening and you're interested in more info on these groups, you can Visit our website, PureDesire.org and if you also want to talk with Ashley about setting up or starting these groups in your church for young females, you can contact her just email groupsouredesire.org Again, that's groupsuredesire.org so, Ashley, thanks so much for just your willingness to lead even women in your community and in your neighborhood and just to lead in this vulnerability and helping other young women find healing. It's just. It's awesome. Thanks so much.

You're welcome. Thank you.

And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe. You can also rate and review our podcast and let us know how we're doing. For more information, check out our website, PureDesire.org and you can follow us on social media. Your DesirePDMI once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time. Thanks for thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website, www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey.

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