058 – Misconceptions Of Marriage

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Enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here as always with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Surf's up, everyone.

You're back from vacation today.

Am I?

Yeah.

Am I really?

Yeah. I mean, we had a vacation partially back. We had a vacation from you, I guess, is more what I'm referring to. But you spent some time on the other coast of our country. How was that?

The very far coast? Yes, it was. It was delightful. And very humid.

So you're in Florida?

Yes.

Oh, my gosh.

I did not actually do any surfing.

Oh, so your intro was misleading then?

Well, it's as close as I've been to surfing in a long time, so let's go with that.

You heard it first. Nick Stumbo has now lied on the podcast. Okay, so today we have Tyler and Sherry Chinson with us. Did I say that right? Perfect man. It is a challenging last name. Tyler is our clinical director at Pure Desire, and both him and Sherry are clinicians on staff. So welcome back to the PD podcast.

Thank you. Good to be here.

Awesome. Today's episode will be focused on misconceptions of marriage. Everyone go ahead and play the laugh track right now. Since Tyler and Sherry are very skilled and wise counselors who've been married for a while now, we figured they could give us some insight and thoughts on what a healthy marriage truly looks like. So again, we're just gonna kinda jump in. But the misconceptions of marriage that a lot of us have or have heard, those are the things we're gonna be talking about today. We wanna address these mis and talk about how to avoid these assumptions of marriage. Whether you're engaged, not married yet, or have been married for a long time, these misconceptions can hang around. And we all want to live lives as healthy spouses and have healthy marriages. So expect to learn a lot from the Chinsons. No pressure. Okay, no pressure. Let's just jump in with the first misconception. One of the misconceptions we hear a lot is that sex will always be awesome inside a marriage. Why is that a misconception?

Always is a loaded term, and that's a setup for disappointment. Actually, in Sherry and my marriage of 28 years, there have been times when sex has been awesome and other times when I felt like I owed her an apology.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think. I think along with that, the number one key that makes sex awesome is that communication. First of all, for me, identifying my own needs and then being able to communicate them, that's always been my biggest challenge, I think. But to be able to express our own needs, our wants, our desires, things that pleasure us.

I often share with people that I'll say clients, not everyone on the street that I meet that I share this with.

I mean, that would make the story more interesting. Let's go.

It would be awkward that the 23 hours and 45 minutes that lead up to physical intimacy is actually the foreplay time. 23 hours, 45 minutes. That's foreplay. When there's touch, reaffirming, words, connection, that type of thing.

Fun.

Well, there definitely is an idea that sex will just be natural and easy. And, you know, getting married is like this lifelong commitment of.

It's.

It's always a yes. And we don't realize that you're dealing with another human being that has ups and downs and good days and bad days and women that have cycles. Just all these things you. You don't really think about when you're just imagining how sex and marriage will be and just learning to really appreciate another human being as a human being and not some culturally created sex symbol that's just there to meet our needs. It's a learning process. And I think that was. That was a huge thing for my wife and I. I remember when we got married, I got some great advice from an aunt, and she just said, you know, the biggest thing I can encourage you on your honeymoon is be patient with each other. And I thought, well, that's kind of funny advice, but we went on our honeymoon, and over and over, I just thought about, we just have to be patient with each other, because you really can't realize how many stereotypes you've bought into when it comes to sex or misconceptions until you're into your marriage and relationship and things are coming up and you realize, oh, I thought this would be different. I thought that would be different. And rather than giving in to the expectations you had or the stereotypes to just say, I'm going to be patient and actually Learn my spouse and learn what we enjoy. And that's hard work. So it's not always great, but it's worth the effort to improve. And as you were saying, Sherry, to communicate, to listen, to learn one another, because it can be great. It's just not an automatic.

Well, and so when I was thinking through this question beforehand, what comes to mind is it's like saying you're always going to be in a good mood every day. Like, maybe that's your option, or maybe that's your goal at beginning of the day. I'm just gonna be in a good mood today. But stuff happens, and you realize it's not very realistic. I mean, the thing is, is that we talk about this, is that we're not just physical beings. We're very holistic. And so there's a lot of stuff that goes on during the day. Even if your spouse loves you and wants to be intimate or wants to spend that quality time together physically, maybe something happened that day that threw him off. Maybe it's something you did, maybe it's not something you did, but the reality is it's just not realistic.

Well, being married and having a spouse, someone that you're with 24 hours a day, in theory, is a learning process in a lot of ways. But another misconception that we can have going into marriage, and this, I think, comes from our culture, is this idea that my spouse will complete me. Why is that a misconception?

Well, I mean, yes, your spouse should be your greatest ally. They should be your confidant, your lifelong mate. But to put him, to put Tyler in the position where he has to fulfill me completely in all ways, at all times, that's going to lead to disappointment. He's human and I'm human, and that's just not going to work. You know, we're going to encourage people to strengthen your walk with Jesus, because that's the relationship that's going to really fulfill you, not the relationship with another human.

Yeah, you know, I. I may disappoint some Tom Cruise fans out there, but regardless of what Tom Cruise says in any movie, a spouse doesn't make your life complete. And this has been my experience. If anything, marriage has just shown me what I'm lacking. It's shown me the gaps and the holes in my sanctification and my holiness and my ability to not be selfish for 10 minutes. Like, it's showed me more of what is wrong with me than actual adding a completeness to my life. So I guess in some ways you could roundabout say that. That brings completion, but we're never going to be complete. We're always moving up and moving forward, but we're never going to. We're never going to arrive or graduate from the need of that.

Yeah, well. And since we're quoting from movies, I always think of the great one from the 90s, Cool Runnings, where the lead actor is hoping to win a gold medal in the bobsled, and his coach says to him, if you're not enough without the gold medal, you'll never be enough with it. And I think that's true about marriage, that if we're not a complete person without someone else in our life, adding them to it won't complete us either, because that's not where the source of our identity and value and worth comes from. We have to find that through Christ, through who he's made us to be. And when two complete people come together in marriage, then they do complement one another. They become, like you said, Cherry, each other's allies and best friends and really that that partner to do life with. That's so exciting. But now I'm engaging in that relationship because I have something to offer them and I can appreciate them for who they are, not because I need something from them, because if I need something from another person to complete me, then I will automatically twist that relationship in a way that's trying to get my needs met versus just having a relationship based on love and commitment and friendship and all the things that marriage is meant to be. So we just have to figure out, what does it look like to be a complete human being and how can I work on that without expecting a spouse or another person to create that for me?

So moral of the story is, listen to John Candy, anything he says in any movie.

Maybe we should keep edit that out of the podcast.

Okay. Yeah.

Not Uncle Buck. Don't do that one. Okay.

All right.

So the third misconception is, and this is one that I think we go into a lot with an assumption that we're not going to try to do this, but we do kind of think it's possible. The misconception is you can change your spouse. Let's talk about that.

A marriage is a union of two imperfect people, which may bear repeating, that communication is key. And if your goal is to change your spouse, then you're likely looking at the wrong person. If you want a close, intimate relationship with your spouse, work on yourself first.

Yeah, I think what you said at the beginning there, Trevor, of this question, that we might not set out thinking, I'm going to change my spouse. But we observe things about them that we feel like, oh, over time, you know, we'll work through that or that'll be different or when in reality, many of the things we observe about someone in dating and courtship actually become more pronounced in marriage because we become more aware of their flaws. We become more aware of their inconsistencies, not less. And so it's really, I feel like marriage is this process of becoming appreciative of another person with their flaws and strengths and everything together. That that's what marriage is about, is loving them for who they are and not who I wish they would be. Because we can put so many expectations or hopes on how they should change, that we don't appreciate what we have. Because the reality is any human being we're married to will be flawed and imperfect and. And will in many ways bring out the worst in us because they will know us better than any other human being. And so if we're sitting there trying to figure out what's wrong with the other person, how to change it, like you said, Tyler, maybe we're looking for the wrong person because that person doesn't exist. And I'll tell couples when I perform their wedding ceremonies, I'll say, any fool can find out what's wrong with another person. Spend your life figuring out what's right about this other person, because that's really what sustains the marriage, is not focusing on how this habit of theirs annoys me, but remembering what we love about them and just putting more and more focus on that that sustains the marriage. And we just become, in a way, we become blind to the fault. It's not that we ignore things, but that we just say, you know, that's not nearly as important as all these things that drew me to this other individual.

You know, I think that what you're saying, Nick, too, is based upon the. I guess the assumption that we know what's best for our spouse, we know what they should look like when in reality that's not our place. We're just as flawed as that individual. So if we get to decide what they look like, things would just get worse for that person. But then also at the same time, we don't have what it takes to bring about lasting change. Like whether. Whether I see all the things that my spouse does and call them out daily doesn't actually mean I have the power to change that person. If anything, they're just going to get more upset at me and stop listening to me. And so I think that what's cool, though, is that God does allow us to be a part of that process. Part of the process where we're helping shape and mold that person into who God wants, you know, your spouse to be and vice versa. So understanding that maybe you feel that way about your spouse, but know that, buddy, she feels the same way about you. And this can go for either, you know, either spouse. But it's definitely something where we think we know what's best and we also don't have the power. And both those things are off.

So, Tyler, let me throw a question back to you because I'm sure you guys observe this a lot in the counseling office where a couple comes in and it's evident that one of the couples is really working hard to fix the other or change something about them. So how do you address that with the couple? How do you bring up like, hey, you're trying to fix her, you're trying to change him. That's not going to work. What's your approach in helping someone see that they're doing that and to change their ways?

It often requires stepping back from the relationship and looking inward. What is it that I, one of the spouse members is attempting to change and why? And is that for your benefit? Is that for the benefit of the relationship or the benefit of the person? And there are ways that we can encourage others to grow and to fully step into who he or she are called to be. But to actually strong arm a person into changing is not real effective. And oftentimes that person who is frustrated, they'll both be frustrated.

Yeah. So do you have some examples of that difference between, on the one hand, trying to change a person and on the other hand, being a help or a support in changes that they're making? What might be some examples of ways that we can encourage the change in our spouse but not be trying to force it?

Well, it's off. We call it the sandwich. It's often beneficial to enter into that conversation by expressing a positive, you know, how much I care for you, you know I love you. And there are certain things that you do just beautifully. And there's something here that I'd like to address. Is this an okay time to do that? And then just to have that conversation about what may be disturbing, annoying, whatever, just have that conversation. What about this? And have you noticed that? And at the end of that sandwich conversation, to say thank you for being patient with me in helping us to move toward our calling.

Yeah. And that. Boy, what you just said about timing is so important. I think couples don't even process that at times. They just, it comes to their mind and they're like, why do you do this? And what. And suddenly in the middle of someone's day, or when they're at the end of a long day and they're just ready to go to bed, now they're being kind of forced to face a weakness. Like, I did not want to have this conversation right now. And that simple act of saying, is now a good time for us to have a conversation about our relationship? And some things I'm observing, are you open to that? And if they say no, be like, great. What would be a better time? Because maybe it's a night where you get away from the kids, you're out for coffee or just for a walk, and it's a great time to address it. And the conversation, because I'm just, I guess piggybacking on this because of how often I've seen it in my own marriage, is that I can have the same conversation if the timing is wrong, go just two entirely different ways. And it's not because it was a bad conversation. It was my need to get the conversation over with and to have it made for a bad conversation because I chose really bad timing. And it put my spouse kind of in a corner where she's like not able to respond in a way that's very understanding. And so just asking that timing question of, is this a great okay time to bring this up? Well, that's really important in a conversation.

It's amazing. The emotional defenses can go up immediately if that person is not in the position to receive and to dialogue, to interact and say, let's grow together. If he or she is not in that place, it won't happen.

So let me. This is another off the script question. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

How does somebody prepare themselves to have those conversations? So if we know that our spouse is going to come to us some days and offer, hey, I have some thoughts on some things that I'm seeing. How can we best prepare ourselves for those conversations to not emotionally freak out when they come up?

It's important that we identify that our spouse has our best interest and the best interest of the marriage at heart, and that they're coming to us with goodwill. And it's important that we see that in the other and that they're not attacking, they're not attempting to change, but let's grow this marriage. I don't know if that helps or answers no question.

Well, I think it brings up the value of couples pursuing counseling. Because hopefully when you walk into a counseling office, you've set up that appointment with the mental framework to say, we're going to address some issues because we need to. And so you approach that hour, hour and a half, whatever it is, open to the conversation because that's why you're doing it. You're paying for it. You've set aside time in your day, and it really can be beneficial and profitable to a couple that just isn't able to find the right kind of environment to have those conversations, come in and see a counselor, because it creates that environment in a really supportive and helpful way.

It's not uncommon that modeling takes place within that type of session, and each party in the marriage can see how that healthy dynamic takes place. Sometimes there's role modeling involved and that type of thing. So, yeah, I agree, Nick. It can be very beneficial, if I may say. Oftentimes couples wait six years of distress before they reach out for help. We just encourage not to wait that long.

Yep. Yeah. Well, and this, this next misconception may be definitely one of those that creates some of these situations where couples are waiting far too long to address it, but they get into this mentality of this misconception that my partner's health is my responsibility, or on the flip side, my partner's unhealth is my fault. We become overly responsible for the health or unhealth of our spouse. So why is that misconception so prevalent and what do we do about it?

Well, I think we need to understand that marriage is really about growing us up. Marriage is not about our own comfort. It's about how are we going to grow up and how are we going to grow to be more supportive of another person. We're called to love. We're called to cherish one another. We're called to focus on the needs of the other while also caring for ourselves. So as individuals, we need to bring good health and goodwill into that marriage and support each other to the best of our ability.

If I was to hold myself entirely accountable and responsible for Sherry's feelings or emotions or overall well being, then I've taken the responsibility away from her and moved toward a relational dynamic that is not healthy.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting that, you know, just kind of leaning on my experience as a youth pastor where I saw that there were times I would say something that parents have told their kids for years, like, word for word, same exact thing. And parents would come to me so, just so upset, like, how, how come? Really, like, you Said the same thing I've been saying for 10 years, and all of a sudden it starts to click. But I think that there's got to be some self discovery. There's got to be some kind of through organic situations where people come to understand things. And if I'm looking at my relationship with the Lord, I don't get a message from heaven every morning saying, hey, buddy, Here are the 13 things you need to work on today. Like through his grace, he usually just reveals one or two, maybe three or four, but he gives me bite size where I'm able to figure out how to really go about my day in addressing these things. And so I think that to a degree, if you put that responsibility on yourself, you're just gonna bury your spouse and just think about it. I mean, this is something I don't do a great job of, but you gotta flip the script and look at the way they view you. If they did that to you, how would you feel? I would not enjoy that on a daily basis.

Well, you know, as much as I love Tyler, I can't. I can't go to the doctor for him, I can't exercise for him, I can't eat right for him. I can't do those things. I can encourage him, but I can't take that responsibility. I've tr. It doesn't work.

Yeah, well, you guys can find counseling.

Later, you know, so what we're talking about here really is a form of codependency, right, that I'm. I'm becoming responsible for things that aren't my responsibility about my spouse. How might someone listening identify if they're over functioning, if they're being too responsible for their spouse's health or unhealth. What, what would you encourage them to look for or to look out for?

Well, I would say if my value and well being is connected to his or her well being. If she's in a good place, I'm in a good place, and that's not healthy. If she's not in a good place, that sends me to a place that's low. So I think that's a pretty good sign and evidence of codependency. In order for me to be okay, they have to be okay.

Well, I think that's a great observation because culturally we kind of think the opposite of like, well, we're a team and if, if she's down, I'm down and we're in it together. And I guess there's a sense in which, yeah, you go through hard stuff together and you're both going to face it together. But if our emotional well being is tied to theirs, it's just not good for the relationship or for us long term. And so to come to a place to say it's okay for me to be happy even when my wife is upset or really down, that doesn't make me a bad or uncaring spouse. I can still show compassion for them. I can still be aware of their needs, but not have to be down to show that I care that they're down. Because that's. I think that the training we get sometimes, like, well, the way you show empathy is that you're down with them. Well, maybe I feel for them, but I can be okay even when they're not.

And you can feel with them and still not have to feel for them.

Yeah.

And ultimately we have a hard enough time dealing with our own junk. So no need to put the responsibility of other people's junk onto your plate. Let's move on to the fifth misconception. And this one I think we learn really a lot. Like, culturally, this gets really thrown down our throat. And the misconception is that sex will solve all of our problems.

Yeah, if you're looking for sex to solve all your problems, you're just creating another problem. Really, you know, a really thriving sex life. It's a result of a couple who are invested in the relationship, who are managing the good times and the difficult times together. You're managing your own stuff, and there's a sense of security, a sense of safety in the relationship. Both people are contending for that relationship and for your future together.

There will always be challenges in life. How a couple approaches those challenges together will have a direct reflection on the quality of their sex life.

You know, last week we had Bob and Rebecca on the podcast and they talked about the idea that it should be a culmination of the emotional intimacy you've created with your spouse. It should be an overflowing of that and not a creator of that. I think that that's what we think. We think that this is going to create or launch off our intimacy when really this should be an end result of that intimacy that we've been creating.

I'm curious, do you guys feel like this is maybe a more prevalent struggle for men, where men can use sex as a barometer of the relationship, where they feel like, well, hey, we've had sex two times this week, so we're good. Where they're using that as kind of a mark of whether or not it's a good relationship. Where the female or the wife may not as often see it that way. Do you see that happening at all?

I wouldn't say that's a general rule. As far as acceptance and the well being of the relationship, whether or not they're having sex a certain number of times, I think it's equally important for the wife, the spouse, to feel connected and live a life of shared intimacy. So I think when that begins to move away from a wife, that there's a sense of disconnect there. Guys, as we know, very visual, very tactile, where gals are much more relational. And so I think the intimacy piece promotes a sense of relationship closeness, connection. And that's quite important to wives.

Yeah, I think so too. I think, you know, women, there's a misconception, I think, being a woman, that women don't crave sex as much as men do in a marital relationship. And I think that's incorrect. We just need a different type of sex. Maybe we need that relational component, you know, and whether, you know, sometimes you have fast food sex and sometimes you need, you know, the smorgasbord sex, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily matter to us which one it is, but we do need that emotional component to it. We need to know we're safe. We know. We need to know we're secure in the relationship and in my husband's love.

You know, Nick, as you're asking that question too, I think that the church inadvertently teaches that to be a good wife or to be a good spouse, you are supposed to have sex. So, you know, every so often, like this many times makes you a healthy spouse. I don't think that we directly say, hey wives, this is what you should do every week. But I think that, you know, we've definitely taken that passage of scripture out of context in a lot of ways about the wife's body. And, and so I think that in some ways the church can almost be a detriment to their couples in that way. And so just being really real and being honest about what the relationship should be focused on. And, and that not being sex is the focus of that relationship.

Yeah, well, and maybe I asked the question incorrectly because what I was hitting at was that I think in a lot of marriages the prevalence of sex can be a cover up for a lack of real intimacy and connection that a husband. And this is where I think maybe guys fall into it more. A husband can think, hey, we're doing great. We had sex twice this week. And really it was just a physical connection. But there was no emotional connection. They aren't aware of their spouse's needs. And we'll hear from wives who feel like I'm giving him sex because I feel like I'm supposed to, but I feel like our relationship is dying. So maybe I just asked the question wrong, but I just feel like I've heard that from people saying, yeah, our sex life is fine, but there's a lot of other issues we're not dealing with. And I wonder if we're not dealing with it because I'm giving my husband sex and so he thinks everything's fine.

I think that's a good point. That's a good point. Goes back to that communication, communicating your needs, making sure you guys are aware, you both are aware of where you are emotionally in the relationship. That's where intimacy is built.

Okay, well, let's go on to our sixth misconception about marriage. And that's this, that my spouse will always support me and never let me down. What do you think about this misconception?

Marriage? What an awesome undertaking. To commit to a life of loving another person, to live daily in close proximity, to share life's ups and downs and to contend for the love, safety, welfare of just one person. To raise kids, work on a job, a career, manage finances, and to agree on where to vacation. That is all an awesome undertaking. From our sinful nature, we can be self centered and self serving. And there will be times that your spouse does disappoint you and let you down. In that space of pain and disappointment, we can choose to react and hurt them with our own response so we can learn to convey thoughts, feelings and emotions in a healthy and supportive way. Marriage is a union of two imperfect people. There will be conflict, there will be some pain. How we manage that pain will demonstrate our character, maturity level that ultimately reflects on our own level of intimacy and sexual satisfaction.

You know, it's funny, growing up, I would hear this a lot from my family. Stop being so surprised when people sin. Because if you're a sinner and your spouse is a sinner, then guess what, pal, it's gonna happen. Like, And I don't mean to be condescending, I just think that we go into marriage thinking it's gonna be like rainbows and butterflies and sex every day. Like it just. And then you, you get back from the honeymoon and you realize your spouse snores or that they leave dishes in the sink or they do something worse like sin against you or have a bad attitude or yell at you, you know, and I think that we get surprised by that. When I think that what we've set up is these unrealistic expectations of what a relationship actually looks like. And so I just think that it's. It's something I still struggle with even today. I've been married for over three years, and I still struggle with, you know, when my wife does something that either hurts me, whether it's intentional or not, I'm just, like, surprised. And, man, there are days where God's got to sit me down and say, listen, dude, like, some stuff's gonna happen in life that's okay. Like, sin's gonna happen. And guess what? She puts up with your sin, too. And so it's just this. This nice, you know, circle of understanding.

Yeah.

Well, it makes me think of something we heard from Dr. Ted Roberts on a podcast a while back when you were asking him, Trevor, about how do you avoid giving your son a father wound? And he brought up that point that what we do initially is probably less important than the reconnection. How do we handle it? Is there openness, vulnerability, opportunities to confess, to ask for forgiveness, that that's what rebuilds relationship and creates ability for our sons, in that case, to work through issues with us. And I think the same in marriage, that the question is not whether or not we'll let our spouses down. We'll hurt them, we'll fail to support them the way we could. The question is, how do we deal with it? And if it just becomes emotional baggage that we sweep under the rug, over time, it grows. And that's where we have what you were saying, Tyler. These couples that come to us six, seven years too late because they've just been sweeping hurt and things under the rug like, well, there they did it again. And they've never addressed it in a way that allowed them to communicate and work through it. So just keeps getting bigger and worse, and we find more of what we're looking for, because now we expect to be hurt in that way, and we haven't dealt with it. We keep being hurt in that way, and it just creates these major problems that then we get stuck in. So I think my encouragement on this one is just when you recognize your spouse does let you down or they didn't support you, don't just add another mark to this, like, oh, there's one more time. But find ways, like we were talking about earlier, to openly and in good timing, say, hey, can we talk about this? And try to work through this issue, because that's what builds a healthy relationship.

You Know, Tyler, earlier you were talking about the idea of believing the best in our spouse. And I think that most of the times that I hurt my wife are things that I didn't intend to do. Like, I use a tone that maybe I wasn't aware of, where I used words that were not the best choice, or I didn't do something I said I do because I forgot. Like, there's just all these different things that happen. And I don't set out to hurt my wife on a daily basis, but yet it happens. And so if we start to understand that. That when we hurt other people, it's not always out of intention. I think that if we pay attention to that, that'll help us understand that when our spouse does something wrong or hurts us, that it's also not with intention that they're coming to try to attack me, that maybe they had no idea what happened. And so to approach that conflict or that conversation afterwards with that understanding. All right, the seventh and final misconception. Seven is a great number. We use it a lot. So the final misconception we'll about today is that intimacy happens organically. Let's talk about that.

Yeah, yeah. You know, well, on occasion, that's probably true. Right. But for most of the times, for most of us, developing that healthy intimacy requires patience, being intentional and caring about your spouse and. And about yourself. And. And as life happens, you know, we introduce job stress, we introduce children, financial issues, dealing with aging parents or even dealing with our own aging. Intimacy just. It takes on a whole new dynamic and really a whole deeper meaning as. As we grow. But we have to purpose, fully plan for those times of connection, both emotional and physical connection. We have to make it a priority. In marriage, it's just really easy to just assume that intimacy is gonna happen, and then you turn around and you realize it's been like weeks or months since you've even talked, much less had physical intimacy. And I think another issue on the topic is that men's and women's emotional and physical needs are really quite different. And I think we tend to ignore that fact. I think we need to accept it. We need to work together. We need to communicate needs and desires. I need to not just assume that. That Tyler is going to know how to please me. It's really important to a healthy, intimate relationship that we communicate what I need. I need to remember that he can't read my mind, and he doesn't have this big. After 28 years, you would think, but, you know, and he doesn't have romantic Movie script. You know, he doesn't have that script writer that, that he doesn't have Tom Cruise behind him.

Cruise is not a script writer, I tell you. There's a ghostwriter behind him.

Somebody gives him words too. Come on. You know, he, he has me, though. He has me and he has, he has to hear from me what I need. That's what's gonna bring that, that intimacy to happen more organically over time.

Well, the movie theme that we're carrying through here is worth just thinking through. You know, all of us have romantic comedies that we've watched with our spouses that we enjoy or we find funny, or there's touching moments like, man, that was so cool. And in the movie it looks organic, like that just happened. But if you really think about the truth, there were writers and script publishers and people that edited. I mean, that moment was thought through for months, not years, to be created in just that way. And what it speaks to in a relationship is it's okay if the romance in our relationship takes work. If we plan out, how can we create a night next week where my wife and I could be alone? We could do something fun. What are the kind of conversations we need to have? Like if I just wait till I get home from work Friday night at 5:30 and think, oh, we should have a date night, well, what kind of date night are we going to have? Versus if I spend a few days really trying to think through what's going to create a good moment for us? So it almost seems like, well, that's not very romantic. Well, yeah, it is if it creates really meaningful connection. So just like those movie scenes don't happen by accident. They take a lot of work and thought and planning. So do our relationships. And when. That doesn't mean every moment has to be scripted years in advance. But when we do put some time into thinking about how can I create these moments for us, it, I think, increases the percentage, the likelihood that it's going to be a good outcome, that it's going to create connections. So don't be afraid to put work planning into having a more connected, intimate relationship.

You know, one of the things that really makes me feel pursued and women like to feel pursued is when Tyler does plan out a date night or a vacation or something special for me, when I just, I just show up, you know, I know what to wear, but that's about all I have to do. It's a really, that's a really romantic thing. A time that I feel cared about.

This has been awesome. I feel Like, I'm taking notes, mental notes over here on what I need to do and some of these misconceptions that I have. So I think it's important to know that learning how to be a healthier person and a healthier spouse is something that should never stop. It's important to know that you have to be intentional in your marriage. As we just said, if you really do want to be healthy, if you want to have a thriving relationship. And having a healthy marriage never comes as a surprise, right?

We don't.

Those, those moments, those movie moments don't just happen. They have to be created through intentionality. So just know that it's about the effort you put into it. And then if you put a lot of effort into it, you're going to get a lot out. So remember, the best thing that we can do for our marriages is to get healthy and never stop improving our own personal health. So, Tyler, Sherry, you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for your time.

Thanks. We enjoyed it.

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