060 – Arousal Template

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity.

Hey, guys, this is Dr. Ted Roberts. I hope you'll join me on September 15th at Good Shepherd Community Church for a Pure Desire men's conference. A time where you can pursue a life of integrity, strength, and leave a legacy of real significance. Learn to really kick the enemy's tail. Go to PureDesire.org events. Enjoy the podcast.

Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here as always with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Ooga.

Yeah, let's. Let's talk about that for a second.

No, let's not.

Okay, moving on.

Isn't that the dive sound of a submarine? Like engaging in.

Ted, have you been in a submarine before?

Down, down.

Yeah. Ted Roberts, everybody is here. So today we have our founders with us, Dr. Ted and Diane Roberts. They're contributors on tons of our resources, authors, active members of our clinical team. You guys are at the heart of what we do. We love you guys. We're so glad you guys are here. Thanks for joining us today.

Thank you.

Thanks.

We're just gonna move on from the Aooga stuff. Okay. No submarine.

We're just gonna move on.

So today we're talking through. I'm excited about today's episode. Cause we're talk tool that we use called the arousal template. You will not be hearing much from me as your host today. I feel like I'll ask these questions and just step back and let the experts take it. So this can be a complicated tool, yet it's a really impactful one. And if we use it properly, it can be so helpful on the road to recovery from sexual addiction. So we're gonna be taking time to go through this and how to use it best in our daily lives. So let's just start with this. You guys ready to go?

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. Let's just start with this. The word arousal. This can be a really misunderstood word. Can you just. To us, when we say arousal, what are we talking about in layman's terms?

I mean, the guy is sexually excited. But clinical terms, there's a first stage of four stages which you go through for the sexual response cycle. First one's arousal, which usually for the male's erection, after that it's plateauing, which the body begins to change, ready for intercourse, orgasm, and then restoration. Restoration, Resolution. Pardon me. A sexual response cycle for a man is about 2.8 minutes. Her wife, it's about 14.2 minutes as she's really focused.

Yeah.

You notice there's a 10 minute difference there.

Yeah, at least 10 minutes.

I said, guys, that's what foreplay is about.

There you go.

And foreplay is not, brace yourself, darling. And the younger the guy is, the steeper the slope. And the wife goes through the same four stages. She has an erection as well, but it's through her male female brain, which is quite different than the male brain, to say the least. For example, female fantasies are more about commitment and romance, and they're very relational. Male fantasies are very much visual and they're very sexual. A female usually has fantasies about once a week. Guys average about several times a day. It's part of our culture, and so it's radically different. Fantasies take hold for no apparent reason. But what they are is they're basically an insight into the arousal template. When acting out takes place, what happens? You're doing something that directly expresses a fantasy or a feeling. That's why. Chapter our pillar five, your first part, is all about fantasies. That sets you up to begin to understand the arousal template.

And within the women's material, we talk about fantasies. And if you're a love addict, fantasies are huge because that romance factor is huge. And for women who may have a love addiction, but sexual issues, actually, sex can take on many of the same characteristics that the. The male does. And again, I think arousal has to do with your subconscious cues, your history, your experience, and as we'll get into it, abuse issues of the past. But it's. The limbic system is like a secret area that you're not even aware of. And so when we're putting together an arousal template, the whole thing is to bring forth those secrets into our prefrontal cortex where we can begin to understand, oh, this and this and this. It's kind of a revealing of what's going on subconsciously.

Well, I think what you're describing, Diane, is one of the reasons I'm excited about this podcast. Because culturally, we. We just take arousal as a given that everyone is aroused by different things and don't spend much time thinking about it or investigating what it can reveal to us about what's going on inside. And so we work with so many men and women that are battling unwanted sexual behavior, and they've likely been programmed just to think about how to avoid crossing some line that they have determined or decided is wrong. And they do all these things that get them up to that line and then want to change and go in a different direction. But as we understand arousal and what's going on in those secret deeper places, it can really begin to unlock some doors and so help us understand that a little more about why the arousal template is such a crucial tool in the recovery process. What makes this so significant? Because I know, Ted, I've actually heard you say that this is a game changer in people's recovery process.

It really is. Paul puts it so well. The very thing I don't want to do is what I do when I take a man through an arousal template and I'm able to explain to him why he's doing what he didn't want to do. Lights come on, his shame factor drops exponentially. You can start addressing his issues with a non condemning attitude and change. If you don't understand why you do what you do, you can't change.

I think also sometimes the church has given weak answers to this problem. In other words, to get unstuck, pray more, read your Bible more, or snap a rubber. Snap a rubber band, or bounce your eyes. And I think James chapter one, 14 and 15 says, but each one is tempted by his own evil desires. He is dragged away and enticed. That enticed is the first level. And if that's all you're dealing with, then some of these techniques might work. But then he says the next level, then after desire has been conceived, it gives birth to sin, another level. And sin leads to death.

And the word entice, There is a baited hook. And the enemy baits a hook. And once you bite into the hook, once you act out, it starts changing your brain. You're set up to constant or bondage.

Yeah, but once you're in that bondage, those little easy techniques that are given really don't help. You need to go deeper and figure out, why am I stuck? Why do I keep returning to the same behaviors? So the arousal template will help us discover this.

Yeah, I think what you hit on with that, James, One passage, what entices us is we live in a world that is very sexually driven and there's imagery all around us. And there are experiences where because we're human beings, we see things or hear things or experience things that can. They just. They trigger temptation and they may not be associated with other behaviors, but in that we might miss a whole aspect of our behavior that has been connected to our experiences. And that's what the arousal template is all about, is learning that we do have the ability to begin to recognize where some of this stuff is coming from what starts the engine, so to speak. And if we can get a handle on what starts up the engine that moves us further down to deeper levels, then we can really gain, with the help of. Of God and others in our lives, we can really gain some control over where our desires take us or what we do with them.

Well, and something that I love about this is that it puts practically to, you know, what I. What I've heard in scripture, the idea of it's the heart of the issue. That really is the issue. So if you look at your brother with hatred, you've murdered him in your heart. If you look at a woman with lust in your eyes, you've committed adultery in your heart. And so the idea of we're getting to the actual heart of the issue, not just the physical manifestation of the problem.

Right.

So it's not just about watching porn and masturbating. This allows you to get underneath and really see what's at the heart and at the core of everything that's going on.

It's interesting. The word heart, scripture basically refers to the limbic system. Yeah.

And I've heard you say that it's the soul is really what it's referring most to.

Yeah, It's a combination of your prefrontal cortex and your limbic system as a soul, the integration of the two.

So, Ted, we're kind of talking around the arousal template a little bit and why it's important. But tell us specifically, what is the arousal template? Talk us through this tool a little bit.

The concept was developed by my good friend, Dr. Patrick Carnes, and he basically said the arousal template is a constellation of thoughts, images, behaviors, sounds, smells. It's interesting, the five senses. Your smell is the only one that goes directly to your limbic system. So you have certain smells that are like perfumes that will trigger you. Smells, sights, fantasies, and objects arouse us sexually. The arousal temple is basically an X ray of the early trauma that you have in your life. Frequently, there's two pathways that set you up. Didn't have to be a sexual addict. First one is trauma. As a child, your brain doesn't fully develop impulse control until you're in your mid-20s. That's when your prefrontal cortex finally develops at 26. That's why you can't rent a car until you're 26, because your accident rate is six times adult. The limbic system is fully programmed by the time you're six years of age. And primarily, it's programmed by your two years of age, by implicit memories that's what the scripture refers to. Your heart. Heart's not the organ that pumps blood. It's your limbic system in your head. And the foundational software is implicit memories. And what happens is your family of origin gives you a window through which you look out at your world. And I have guys stand in my office. I don't have any big trauma like you did, Ted. Wait a minute. Basically, if you define trauma biblically, it's any experience you have outside what God designed you to live in the Garden of Eden. So living in this world is constantly an experience of trauma. You don't have a lot of big tea, but you got a lot of little tea that's haunting you big time. And salvation is basically where your spirit and your prefrontal cortex are changed. Your prefrontal cortex gets new biblical information. But sanctification is where your limbic system has changed. And that's why you have this contrast in Romans. Romans 6 says, I'm a new creature in Christ. Behold, all things pass away. I'm a brand new. But right in chapter seven, he says, what? Everything I want to do, I can't do. And the very thing I don't want to do is exactly what I do. A lot of people try to say, well, he's talking about someone else and he's talking about himself. Because in verse 14, he changes the present tense. What's the solution? A lot of people say it's Romans chapter eight, but it's not Romans chapter eight. That's just a. Not a. It's basically an intro to understand. It's a process. Because Paul says all creation is standing on tiptoes waiting for the revelation of the sons and daughters of God. It's a process we're in. What's the process? Romans 12. 2 Be transformed by the renewing of your mind, and that's by having new experiences because you change your limbic system by new information. Sermon will never change your limbic system. You gotta have new experiences. 80% of your decisions on a daily basis are made at the limbic system on conscious basis. You're acting out of the programming already set up.

So what you're saying then is that this is an X ray into what's really going on down there?

Yes, very much so.

That's a great imagery.

So if you want to have a healthy marriage, you want to get healed again, you want to have to reprogram your limbic system through new experiences. I had a client who's violently reactive. He's horrible self esteem, that lovely wife who was constantly driving her away. Deep sexual addict. I could never come to an understanding of why he was so self depreciating, you know, why he's so violent. I took him through what's called brain spotting, which allows you to access the limbic system. It happened last week. I was sitting there. I was amazed. He went back to an incident when he was six months old. He couldn't remember it, but his body remembered it. Where his father took him through against the wall because he was crying. And that's what basically told him he was worthless. Wow. Another lady, her husband was a sex addict. She was reacting crazily. She was reacting to any woman within 100 miles. And so she was so hyperactive. She came in and I started taking her through the brain spotting to access her limbic system. I said, what are you hearing? So I hear my mom and dad talk. I said, what are they talking about? In fact, they don't want me. Then I asked her a question. It blew me underwater. I said, where are you? She says, my mother's womb. She was in her womb. She was hearing her parents reject her. That's why she was so reactive to her husband's sexual addiction. It just set her up. Once we processed it, she was able to get healthy. Second pathway to sexual bondage is a brain lock. That's why usually when you're young and you encounter something that really triggers curiosity or it triggers titillation or disturbs you. Typical situation. A guy runs at his father's stash, he finds his porn magazines, ours videos, ours, Internet websites. What happens, the brain will go back to that, to re experience that. And it'll start changing your brain, start setting you up. For example, they took a group of college students. They always use white rats or college students for experiments. And this is a really weird experiment. They can only do this in some of these crazy colleges. They showed the guys pictures of nude women with a set of boots beside the nude women. Eventually what happened they did is he just showed him pictures of the boots. Guys were being triggered. Their brain was being changed. It's changing them very deeply. He can develop a brain lock as an adult. Frequently I'll have a pastor who's struggling, and when he's done, he's trying to turn his wife into a porn star. And that's because he's been watching porn. So his view of what should be sexually happening is found by porn. It's changing his brain. I remember another one. Childhood trauma can also set up a brain lock for you, John. He was raised By a very religious dad who beat him for the slightest infraction. So he started being fascinated by masochistic porn and started changing. He started taking excitement. Masochistic porn, his abuse, combining his brain. So he started wanting his wife to be involved in that. Just as disgusting for her. So just turn her on. Turn her off big time. That arousal temple is set up and the reason it's so important is like I said before, it helps you understand why you do what you don't want to do.

Yeah. So let's dive in then. Let's talk about the steps because there are five steps that we see to the, to the tool, the arousal template tool. And the first step is to list specific triggers and behaviors for me. So talk to us about this first step. What does it look like?

Well, I'll use clients and I'll make it so it can be confidentiality, self preserved. First guy, his trigger frame was driving around a car alone and what he'd do is he'd masturbate and expose himself in public. Next guy was, he'd feel powerless or worthless and so he'd go and isolate and masturbate. Third guy, standing in a hotel lobby, he'd be triggered and he'd go get a prostitute. That was his sexual. So the lobby became a sexualized space for him. So he'd act out when he got triggered in that. So you have to identify what sounds, what smells, what situations are triggering for you and then you'll start understanding when you understand the background.

You know what's interesting about this is that there's so much shame even in. Even wrapped up in identifying those things. Like there are things that, man, I'm just thinking of experiences I've heard of or I've experienced myself that there are certain situations like this shouldn't be triggering. This shouldn't. Like this is a totally normal space. There's nothing sinful about this. But it is. And so there's like this level of shame you have to deal with and then this courage you kind of have to build up in order to really write it down and say no. This is actually something that triggers me and really moves me to an unhealthy behavior.

Once you understand your arousal template, then you can deal with it in a non judgmental attitude. It's very important you don't judge yourself. Alina, recline. I'll say time and again, you're not a pervert, you're wounded. There's a world of difference. And you start dealing with these issues in a non judgmental way.

I think women really deal with a lot of shame too, because this is supposed to be a man's problem. And yet many women struggle with some of these same issues. I remember one of my first groups when we went through the arousal template. And so I said, okay, who wants to share first? Everyone looked at the floor, talk about shame. They weren't going to share anything. So. So then I said, okay, why don't we go around and each of you share something. You learned about this and processing it. And the first woman started sharing, and she shared everything. And then the second woman shared and she shared everything. And I said, whoa, whoa. Everybody said this, you didn't want to do this, and here you are sharing all this. And they said, well, we felt really safe. They've been meeting for five months, and these were women that they felt safe with.

Yeah.

And they realized they weren't going to be shamed. And that's part of moving, pressing through that shame. And many women struggle with some of the same things. Location, gyms, bars. I've had gals who. And it may not be even for drinking. They like going to the karaoke bars and stuff like that. Smells, cologne and sounds, music. So the sensory women are especially. Can especially be drawn to alcohol and drugs so that they can lower their inhibitions. And sometimes just the physical, whether it's height, tall, dark, handsome, blonde, the voice, perceived personalities. Some women want to be dominated because they never had that covering or that sense of security. Others want to dominate. They've been so controlled and so abused, so they'll look for somebody that they can dominate. And one gal said, I always look for unavailable men who, in other words, they're married, so they wouldn't be available for a close relationship. I just want sexual hit. Feelings a lot feel lonely. They become sensual because they want to attract. They feel less than. So if I can get a man, I'll feel really good about myself. And sometimes they'll go for older men or men of a certain culture. I remember one that was one of the most interesting in one of our groups. She was married. She was Caucasian. She was married to a Caucasian. And let me say preface. There's nothing wrong with inter marriage. Yeah, Interracial marriage or dating. But she couldn't understand why here she was, married and happily married, trying to process the pain of the past and where she wanted to keep going back to. And she says, diane, during my dating years, I was always drawn to people who were not Caucasian. I was. Even now when I go out with my girlfriends and we go to Karaoke bars. I'm drawn to non Caucasians. And so as we began to look through her arousal template, and we're going to talk about this in just a minute, but she realized that, you know, I took her back through her abuse and when she was in four and five year old kindergarten, the teacher, she was the only Caucasian and the teachers had them, the kids doing sexual things.

Wow.

And so all of a sudden when she put that together with her acting out, all of a sudden she realized, oh my gosh, this is what's been happening.

Classic example of brain lock and early trauma together.

Yeah, well, this is an area where when I'm leading group, I really encourage group members. As you're listing these triggers, don't hold back. Like you don't want a short list. The longer the better. So think through all the ways that you have acted out. Where were you, what was happening, what were you seeing, what were you looking at? And just the longer the list, you're going to start to see those connections. And so if someone's encountering this arousal template for the first time, and like you were saying, Trevor feels some shame over these things, you need that ability just to kind of freeform. Right. As much as you can. And that doesn't mean you have to share all of this if you're not quite ready. But you need to start processing and getting out. What are all of, like you were saying, Diane, the environments, the places, the smells, the sights that created these patterns in my life. Because then that's going to help you start to make these connections with the next steps. So step two is all about listing the early painful either sexual or relational experiences. So talk us through, what does that look like? And then also, how do these painful experiences so early in life relate to our current struggle or addiction?

Yeah, it's really important that you don't have your group start doing pillar five. You have a lot of guys rotating through the group. You've got to have a strong, safe place for these guys to share the stuff. Let me take the three guys. I use a guy who was a cruiser. His sexual experience early in life was he had a single mom who was always involved with dating and he was never able to get his mom's attention. And he was invisible and powerless. His mom walked around nude a lot, had a lot of boyfriends over, so it really traumatized him. So when he acted out sexually later on, he was primarily expressing his rage against his mom. A lot of sexual addictions, eroticized rage, and that's why he would act out and embarrass the women and attack him. Basically what he's doing. Guy, I watched porn a lot. He never had a dad affirming at all. Never had. His dad would sit there watching TV and he's trying to talk to him, totally ignore him. So he'd go in his room and isolate and eventually started masturbating. I'd set him up. The guy who picked up a prostitute, this is amazing. He was a love addict. And the love addict. When a guy's a love addict, he'll naturally move towards porn very strongly and sexual addiction. And his father was a military officer who never would affirm him ever, ever, ever affirm him. He went away from boarding school and he came back home. Guess what his father gave him as a gift? A prostitute. His father mentored him very, very well and that set him up to act out continually.

For women, many times abuse either draws them to sex because they're trying to fulfill something that they were trained in, or it repels them from sex. But with women I've worked with, especially one violations often play into their attraction and what they're acting out now. One gal was always spanked naked so the pain would hit her more when she was little. Lack of privacy can lead to this parental exhibition where parents are not modest, but they're exhibiting things that a child shouldn't see. And premature images that women can see. Sometimes their boyfriends get them to watch these images. And I remember one gal especially dealing with a lot of pain in her life. She was four years old when her parents divorced. Her mom was an alcoholic. Her mom had men in all the time having one night stands. So that's giving her kind of a template, a picture that this might be okay. Her mom was not relational. The only way she could relate to her mom was if she went drinking with her at the age of 18. So she was always looking for that mom figure. And she started having oral sex at 15, 16. A boy from church raped her and bragged about it, so she didn't go back to church. At 19, her dad came back into her life and they went out drinking and he molested her when they came back to her apartment. And at 24, she married the man she thought was the man of her dreams. And probably a couple months into their marriage, she says, I think I married the wrong woman. So men in her life were really scary. They weren't safe. So she'd go for one night stands. She really wanted a relationship with women because her mom was not there for her. So she sexualized that relationship, and now she's hooking up with women. So her past abuse and wounds are really playing into what's happening right now.

So you guys are telling a lot of examples of people who've pretty clearly made the connection between triggers and some of those early childhood experiences. But for many people listening, this might be a very new area. So is it okay for them to just go back and begin kind of listing out early painful experiences without any idea what the connection might be? Because I can imagine some people may be being frustrated, like, well, I don't think I've got that clear connection. So is it okay to kind of take that approach?

Well, it's quite common for guys not to put the dots together because they never thought about what's going on inside them. They've just been living life as hard as they can. They never stop and look at themselves. It's quite common to go through this process and get. I don't get the connection. That's why it's really good to have a great leader or something referred to that's going through this and can help you catch the connections because it's not easy to get it really first time, but it's so powerful when you do.

You know, because for me, I don't. Looking back, I really don't have an overly sexualized, painful, you know, traumas in my life, but I do have ones that are relational that have taught me certain things or fed me lies. And so, you know, one of them I've talked about on the podcast before is making this great play in a baseball game. And then parents calling me a ball hog. And I heard, hey, it doesn't matter how well you perform, you're never going to be good enough. And so a trigger for me is any situation that I disappoint people if I don't meet expectations. And so it doesn't have to be just a sexual experience. It can be a relational one. That sets you up, too.

All three of those guys I referred to core beliefs where they were not good enough. At some point they felt worthless in their life. That's a central thing. 80% of the guys I work with have a deep father wound.

And this woman that I talked about felt like somehow she was responsible for the divorce and that her dad hated her since he didn't come back into a relationship till she was 19. And then there was abuse. But I agree with you, Trevor. Many times these can be more subtle. And that's why having a group that's helping you connect the dots, you can begin to see things that you haven't seen before.

You know, we see it in someone else's life a lot quicker than you.

That is the truth. And I'm thankful. That's why other people are around me, so they can point it out. So the third step then, is listing the feelings that were attached to those experiences. So give us some examples. What does that look like?

Well, like I said, all three of those guys had a deep sense of worthlessness. At some point, they felt they were not good enough in their life. That set them up to constantly be medicating their pain. Because every time you turn around, you're feeling the pain. You got to medicate it. And sex will give you a quick medication of the pain. Probably increases your shame, so the psycho goes crazy on you.

I think I already mentioned some of these feelings. You know, dad hates me. It's my fault about the divorce. I wish I'd never been born. I must be ugly and fat that I can't have. I can't attract this kind of person. Or I have to have a man in my life all the time in order to be okay. Yes. I remember a teen group of young gals that I was leading, and one gal said, if I'd get tired of one boyfriend, I'd still hold on to him until I got another one because I couldn't be alone. This was part of my identity. So these things start really early in our lives, the way we think. And much of this comes from our family of origin.

So what you're saying, if I'm understanding correctly, is that these early childhood feelings, because they were connected to some sort of sexual experience, whether good or bad. Now, later in life, when we're feeling that same emotion, it's still connected to a sexual experience. And then can be the trigger for wanting to act out sexually.

Exactly. Especially when there's trauma, subtle trauma. A little T sets you up to act out big time.

And really, a lot of these childhood feelings and beliefs that are really lies stay with us all our life until we address them.

Yeah, yeah, well. And I'll hear that from people regularly who say, you know, I thought I was having a good week or a good day. I wasn't even feeling sexual. I wasn't even feeling tempted. But then all of a sudden, I found myself masturbating. And you walk through their day, and it's like, oh, you felt rejection at work, or you felt worthlessness about a project you turned in, or you thought you were being judged. And all that connection we miss. And so when people start to connect some of these feelings to how that triggers sexual thought, it can really be, to use our word earlier, a game changer.

Yeah, big time game changer.

Well, another thing too, what you guys are talking about is a little bit of a paradigm shift where if you've experienced rape or a divorce or a death in the family, those are big traumas. And it makes sense naturally to have someone help you process through that. But when I'm 13 years old and parents say I'm not good enough, that doesn't seem big enough to me at that age that I need someone to help me walk through that. So really what this is doing is helping you really bring those things to the surface and finally start to work through those little things that maybe seemed insignificant years and years ago.

They're very insignificant as 13 year old who wants to go back and go through junior high again? No one.

In a rhyme.

Not us, sir. No.

It's all trauma. It's all trauma. It's whole thing.

So we've walked through listing triggers, thinking through early childhood experiences and the feelings associated with them. And that leads into step four, which is to now kind of take a step back and write down your overall themes and core beliefs. So talk us through how someone goes about identifying these.

Well, as you look at the emotions you had early on and you're acting out and when you have any questions, ask your wife what your core beliefs are. She'll tell you what they are so you can see them loud and clear. All these guys, all of them had this basic feeling they were worthless.

What if a guy's not married? What if someone isn't married? Who else in their life could help them with that?

They're good friends would really help them.

Okay.

And that's why the pure desire group is absolutely foundational for you. We won't clinically counsel anyone if they're not part of a pure desire group. Because clinical counseling and part of a relationship with other guys, you'll never get healed. Second thing, they all were terrified of intimacy. All these guys were. Intimacy is not being comfortable and close. It's being uncomfortably close. The guy was a cruiser. He developed exhibition in his arousal template because women were not to be trusted. That's a baby he believed he had and in anger towards him resulted in actneon expressing ironic rage or anger. Exhibition would frighten them and he'd get control over women by that. That's what was going on in his head now. He could never see it, but once you outline it for him and go Oh, I see why I do that. Things started changing. Guy was a porn addict. He didn't believe you can depend upon anybody else. If you're going to do anything, you had to do it right yourself. And so that set up his workaholism and set up really shallow relationships. He didn't know how to really relate with his wife in depth. There's an episode, an old HBO episode on Sex in the City. Brenna's having sex with this guy. She says, would you turn off the tv? He's got porn on, so I can't do that. He says, I just met you. I've been with these relationship, these women for years. Shallow relationships, straight men having sex with other men and they can't figure out why. Frequently what happens is I had one individual as pastor of a very large church, and he was having sex with guys. He was married, had three kids, loved his wife deeply, but he was sexually abused when my child and my farmhand had set him up, had another client, he was visiting prostitutes, and all of a sudden he went out with his prostitute. It was a female, but it was really a male dressed as a female. And for excitement, he engaged in it and started setting his brain up. He started having sex with men. And you can't understand when something doesn't make sense. It's always limbic. It's essentially what it is.

And overall themes, some would include, especially with this woman, I only feel safe if I'm in control. So if I.

That's not just a female thing either. That can be anybody, right?

But especially women who have been abused or, you know, if I entice and pursue and I can get this guy, my self worth is I'm more valuable. This shows that I'm valued. And so those are some of the things that women struggle with, especially if they're struggling with body image, they're going to try to come against that by saying, okay, I have a man in my life, so now I'm okay.

Another tip that I give to people in groups as they're walking through this, if they're really struggling to see connections, I just say, work through these columns, vertically, up and down, and just write everything you can think of. Because most of us are aware of overall themes, core beliefs that we struggle with. But we're gonna start, object and say, but that doesn't relate to my past. And so I say just start writing it all down. And when you're through steps one through four, then you can kind of look back and see some themes that can really be eye Opening. So that's another approach, as you're looking at your overall themes and core beliefs, is just write down the things you know you already struggle with, and then see if it begins to make sense in light of the other columns.

But what's really helpful is when the guy's forced to abstain from sexually acting out, all of a sudden, he can't medicate. He's not in his fog anymore. He'll start looking in and see the broken landscape within. And that's really why we have pillar five where it is, because he can't really come to these insights. So you stopped acting out. Fog starts lifting off your brain. You look and see the broken places. It's really important.

So I think one of my favorite things about this tool is that it allows you to put everything, really, on one sheet of paper, right? So it enables you to take everything and filter it, this grid. And, you know, the fifth step is listing the patterns, the triggers, and then the recovery strategies. So how does. How does this final step. What does this look like for someone going through that arousal template?

Well, pillar five, lesson four is a critical piece. When you fill out that fifth column, what you need to do is pillar five, lesson four. That's the three circles. And it's really important you identify the inner circle, those places you don't want to go to, because once you go in there, you're dead. I ran a client call me, and he was in a parking lot in a strip joint. He says, what should I do, Dr. Roberts? I said, run for us.

Run.

Because if he stepped in there, he was dead. And I said, you got to get out of there now. And the middle circle is those areas that you find yourself involved in. It set you up to act out. It's really important you identify those things that lead towards it. But the one that's really mystifying for most guys is the outer circle. Sexual health. That's where you really want to get. And you see the growth pattern in a guy. He'll start off focusing on those things he doesn't want to do. And then all of a sudden, you'll see the middle circle sets him up. Middle circle should become your inner circle when you get healthier. But real health comes when you focus outward. You start pursuing your wife, and you have clear plan on what sexual health looks like. Then it starts really becoming powerful.

That's the practical application of taking off the old man, putting on the new. That's how I think of it, really, if you're applying it biblically, is I'M replacing these old. It's not just taking out the old and then just trying to live life. It's replacing. Replacing those things with healthy things.

Yeah, exactly.

And both women and men as, as Ted mentioned, the men. But women have a hard time thinking of that outer circle too. What are those healthy things like self care rather than self medicating relationships rather than isolating. Most women who struggle with this have no close women relationships. They've so focused on men attracting men or being with men that actually other women become the enemy because I'm competing with those other women. So once they recognize this, and that's why the groups are so good, because the women relationships help heal a lot of what should have been happening in their relationship early on. Where you have those close friends that are same sex friends that can launch you into male relationships. But so many women have never had that.

What's really powerful is when you take this and you use it for the wife or the addict. Diana could take you through that. Take them through the three circles. Relapse for this woman becomes being a seraph. In other words, you help her to get those three circles working for her.

Yes. And our women's material for being betrayed. It's good to have the wives look at their own three circles. And in fact, you did such a good job on Boundaries Padre Podcast 53. We have both the husband and wife listen to that and pull out their circles and talk about the differences. And, you know, what does that outer circle look like? What can we do together to increase health in our relationship?

That's cool.

What's interesting is we will tell a guy, we want you to pursue your wife. You're out of circle and we're going to have you write out what she wants you to do towards pursuit for her. And we're talking to this one guy and we said, where's your pursuit list? He goes, let's hear somewhere. Started looking through his papers on his desk. He stuffed it back in there. You gotta eventually focus to the outer circle. That's where you're gonna make it really well work well for you. Going through all this stuff really works. When you finally get to the outer circle, start focusing on your wife.

Well, the arousal template is something that people are often gonna use as part of their group experience. As going through the homework, they're gonna be sharing it confidentially and they may be wondering what of this, if any, can I share with my spouse or should I share with my spouse? So let me ask that question to you guys. Is the arousal template Something that should be sp shared with a spouse. And if we are the spouse, how can our awareness of our, of our spouse's arousal template allow us to help them in the journey?

We've tried to caution, especially our clients, that that might not be a good thing to share because they've just. The spouse has just learned how to share it without shame with their group. I don't think it hurts for them to understand the belief system that's been driving their acting out. And I think we recommend that instead of focusing on the arousal template, they focus on the three circles.

Three circles.

Because the three circles kind of lays it out. The wife already knows usually what those acting out places are that he never wants to go and. But I think her understanding his middle circle, where these are the guardrails, these are, you know, when I start black and white thinking, when I cuss, when I whatever those things are, that kind of are warning lights that, gee, I'm ready to relapse and go into that inner circle. Those things are good to discuss with the spouse and vice versa. I think the husband needs to see that the wife has her issues too, and she's focused on creating boundaries within her life and working on self care so that she doesn't become the sheriff, the nag, the controller, the black and white thinker, whatever those things are that drive him. So we're trying to teach them a different dance. And sometimes I think if they can focus on the three circles, it's more for helpful for them to say, oh, we're doing that dance.

Yeah, it's really important that they have the betrayal and beyond. And the seven pillars are written so they have common language so they can share with each other. Like your arousal template is mostly built with fantasies. You don't want to share your wife, you don't want to share with your wife your fantasies. That's something you got to win on your own. Because the woman has the upgraded male, female brain, she didn't have a downgraded male brain. So focus on just acting out. And once she understands what his circles are, then they can really talk the same language. Now the guy needs to rewrite his three circles about every six months for the first two years of healing because he's going to be growing and developing. So eventually what will become three circles is be one circle, be the outer circle. His pursuit list for his wife is foundational for what he was going to. It's really important.

Gosh, I feel like I'm learning a ton and this is awesome. We just appreciate you Guys, we end every episode with really asking just for final encouragement. So in regards to the arousal template, what final encouragement would you give to anyone who's wanting to use this tool?

It's absolutely foundational if you want to get healthy. Because what drove you for so years, so many years, to do crazy stuff? Once you find out why you're doing what you're doing, you realize you're not some pervert, you're just wounded. And there's a world of difference.

I think looking at the arousal template, if you'd look at it as kind of you're going to be a detective and you're looking to figure and trying to figure out what does your subconscious brain know that your prefrontal cortex is not aware of. And what we're trying to do is bring forth those things that automatically. I mean, you just automatically start doing and you're not even aware. So being present is really what we're striving for. And by uncovering this, all of a sudden, there's going to be a new awareness, and it's going to take the power out of being stuck. Because once you know and understand, then you can do something about it.

Yeah, this is the most powerful tool we use, but it's challenging to use it correctly.

Yeah, I think that'd be my encouragement. Just to build on that is this can be intimidating. And so I'd encourage you just pray and really ask God to illuminate what needs to be illuminated, because every single feeling and trigger, you're not going to be able to link it to something current. And it's a little more art than science. But that's okay because you're not trying to figure out everything all at once, but really to have a couple of major connections made that really become foundational for change. So trust that God's going to bring to light what needs to come to light. And for the pieces you don't quite understand yet, just take a deep breath and trust those will have a role to play somewhere down the road.

Yeah, huge.

So this has been great. This has been such a fun time. Just talking about a really complicated tool. It can be very complicated. And I think that it's really important to understand that this is not going to be an easy exercise. Going through this tool is going to take a lot of awareness. It's going to take a lot of courage. It's got to take, man, you just. You have to be strong and power through it, because if you want to be healthy, you got to do what it takes. And this is part of that. So we would suggest anybody who's struggling with anything should use, especially in the realm of sexual addiction, you should use this tool. So we just appreciate you guys insight and help today. So thanks so much for being with us.

All right, thanks. Love you Trevor.

I love you too. And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe. You can also rate and review our podcast and let us know how we're doing. For more information check out our website PureDesire.org and you can follow us on social media. Social media earedesirepdmi Once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information check out our website www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to pur.