064 - Social Media Minefield

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host, as always, Nick Stumbo.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to have lots of childhood trauma that you have to process with a counselor for years. How was that?

They're just getting better and better. I'm just. I'm proud to be your co host. Every time I.

Well, thank you.

I don't.

I feel a little down about my Spanish accent. I think I could have nailed that better. But that's all right.

We're going to focus on the positives today. Today we have with us Ben Bennett. Ben leads an Initiative with Josh McDowell Ministries. He's the author of Living Free, our group resource for college aged men. He is the tattooed man himself and he is awesome. We love him. Welcome back, Ben.

Holler at your boy.

See, this is so good.

I love it.

Okay, so today's episode is focused on maneuvering through the minefield that can be social media. So when pursuing sexual integrity, social media can be a struggle for many. And figuring out what it looks like to be healthy while on social media can be and usually is a challenge. So today we're gonna push into Ben's perspective and really just talk about how to best manage the minefield that is social media. So you guys ready to jump in?

Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it.

Alright, so, Ben, let's start with this. For some of our listeners who maybe don't know what we mean when we say social media, what exactly are we talking about?

Yeah. So I define social media as any online platform used to communicate with others. Any type of online platform used to communicate with others. The reason being, it may be pretty obvious, but the word social, to nerd out a little bit, is an adjective referring to society as a whole. And the word media is the plural form of the word medium. And media is actually defined by any means of communication. So you put those two together and you get that definition. But with that definition, I think there's a lot more websites and apps besides the typical social media that we think about, be that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, there's many other things that may be social media, because put simply, if you can connect with people online and share information, it's social media. You could talk about apps like Yelp, even some Gaming apps. That would be social media. Yeah.

It's really incredible to see the way social media has grown. We used to think of Facebook and was it MySpace, the other one? People hardly even talk about that anymore. But that was the pioneer, and that was social media kind of those pages. But even now, it's expanded into just about every area of life you can have a social media presence in. So I used to have a running journal that, you know, on a piece of paper, with a pen, I would write down my miles and keep track of my running. Well, now I have an app that I log my miles and then friends see it and they comment and I comment on theirs. And it's like, it's just interesting to see that every aspect of our life can now be lived out in social media, whether it's diet, exercise, where we go for trips, where we eat. It's just become kind of a part of the way we interact with others.

Yeah, I am impressed by your nerd level, Ben. That was well done. I don't think I've heard that description yet, so good job.

Thanks. Well, I love getting to define things. I learned the importance of that from Josh McDowell.

Name drop.

Defining the terms. Yeah.

So we're already talking about just the explosive growth of social media and the way that so many live a significant portion of their life is through social media. So let's talk about what are the ways that social media can be a minefield, particularly when it comes to pursuing sexual integrity?

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that analogy of a minefield. I mean, personally, I've never walked through a minefield. Besides the lawn at my apartment complex. We got a lot of dogs. But a minefield is the perfect analogy, because you never know when you're going to come across something unintentionally on social media that will be triggering or be explosive, so to speak, to walking in integrity in all aspects of life. For example, you could be scrolling through your news feed or homepage on Venmo even, or Yelp or Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and there's a triggering photo of a guy or a girl. Or maybe there's a sexual comment that you. That you see or an analogy someone's using. It could be an ad that you come across on any number of platforms that you find arousing. Let me just say, those ads can be so annoying. A few months ago, I was on Instagram Story, and I was getting ads for KY Jelly for Lube, and I was like, what in the world did I search on Instagram that they thought I was Interested in that. And the only thing I could have could think of was all the porn addiction recovery that I searched for.

That's right.

So even things like that. But it could also be something you see on social media that triggers other things like your woundedness, your feelings of inadequacy or worthlessness or even comparison. Because many of us only show our highlight reel on social media, and others can see that and feel bad about themselves, which could lead to this downward spiral towards relapse. Or maybe someone is struggling with body image and they come across someone posting about all the weight they lost or the new perfect body they have, or. Or someone starts a Facebook argument with you. You know, we have to be mindful of all these unhealthy thoughts or behaviors or wounds we deal with when approaching social media. And I mean, the thing is, we never know what we're gonna come across. These pictures, posts, ads, fake accounts that follow you, that have super sketchy profile pictures. At first you're like, wait, is that my friend from high school? No, this is a fake account. It's probably some creepy guy in his basement who's trying to solicit nudes. That's really weird. So annoying. But the key is to do what we can to avoid these things and then to have a plan for when we come across them. Because any of these things can be the thing that starts the acting out cycle leading to a relapse. We can plan to reach out to someone immediately to go to our prophetic promises. When we start to feel ourselves comparing or feeling inadequate. We can tell ourselves the truth of who God sees us to be and just how much he loves us.

Yeah, and you're just referencing the personal promises tool that we use. We'll have that in the show notes. You know, Ben, as you were saying, that too, what you're talking about. And this is the thing. The two biggest issues I see with social media is that it reinforces isolation. So it pushes you down into. When you're doing the infinite scroll, where all you're doing is just scrolling through post after post after post, or video, video, video. What you're doing is you're really just getting deeper and deeper and deeper into a pocket of isolation. And we do that every day. A lot of us who have smartphones and have social media, we do it and it's just mindless. It's just numbing out. And that in and of itself, I don't think is negative. But if that becomes something that is a habit, it just reinforces that this is my time I can go and can spend just by myself. And the more you're in isolation and the more that you get those ads or you get those posts or you get that content, that can be triggering. You're already deep into isolation, so at that point you're already ready to act out. You're almost primed up because you're isolating. So that's the first thing. And then the other thing is that in and of itself, social media offers a type of community, when in reality it's just a counterfeit community. And so it's not real face to face, heart to heart, relationship or intimacy that you're having with people. So it really is. It's exactly that. When you think of counterfeit cash, it looks like it, it seems like it, but it's not real. It's the same thing with community on social media. It creates this. This counterfeit or this basically like it's a placeholder community that we feel like we're actually getting, when in reality all we're getting is just an extended counterfeit form of community that ends up being isolation.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. And just to follow up on that, I liked what you were describing, Ben, that the triggers we can come across in this minefield of social media are not only sexual content, it may also be emotional. That there are many triggers that create feelings in us, unwanted feelings that we're not sure what to do with, in fact. And hope I'm not stealing any thunder of yours from later in the podcast or something you're hoping to talk about, but, you know, research shows that loneliness is actually increased by use of social media, not decreased. So going back to what you were saying too, Trevor, that we think it's about community and there is a sense of community, but actually it leaves the vast majority of users feeling more loneliness. And loneliness is really the birthplace and the seed of addiction in our lives because we're trying to figure out what to do about that emotion. And so we run to all kinds of false things to fill that void. And so I think you just have to be aware that in seeking out community, it may actually be creating a deeper sense of loneliness in my life. And that's a real problematic emotion that then we have to deal with.

Yeah, absolutely.

So now that we've kind of talked a little bit about what it is, why it can be such a minefield, let's talk about some things to be aware of or to avoid when using social media. What do you think about that?

Yeah, to answer that, or before I answer that, I think it's helpful to first remember the why. Why is it so important for us to walk in integrity on social media? And I love first Thessalonians 4. 3, which says, this is the will of God, your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality. So this is a pretty big deal because there's only a couple times in Scripture where God outright tells us his will for our lives. And at the top of that list of his will and is our sanctification and our sexual integrity. But why is that a big deal? Well, God wants to protect us from hurting ourselves and others, because that's what sin does. It hurts ourselves and others. And he wants to provide the satisfaction for us as we live life as he designed it. So as we're sanctified, as we're sanctified, which I define as our behavior lines up more and more with who God already has made us to be. Because we're not becoming more like Christ. I would say. I would say our behavior starting to line up more and more with what's already positionally true of us in Christ, that we're loved, we're righteous, we're cherished, we experience this greater fulfillment in life, and as a result, we give in the sin less, we experience less guilt, less hurt, less consequences. And as a result, we get this greater intimacy with God and others. So if something on social media gets in the way of me experiencing that fulfillment and that deep intimacy with, with God and others, it's got to go. Yeah. If I can't handle social media for a time or it's too triggering, it's got to go. Because I'm missing out on all that God has for me. But to answer the question, I'd like to give a principle, and that principle is just two words. Know yourself. Know yourself. Josh McDowell says something similar all the time to me. He says, know thyself. Know what you need to thrive, what's going to wear you down, what's going to trigger you, and what you need to avoid. There's been so many things in my journey the past seven years that I've done to protect myself on social media. For example, at times I've said, I'm only going to check social media once or twice a day, or I'm not going to go to the Explore page on Instagram and just aimlessly browse. Or I'm not going to look at the location tags or hashtags on Instagram because there can be random triggering images. Or I'm not going to be on Snapchat. I'm still not on Snapchat because it's just one other thing that I think would take up my time and prevent me from doing all the things that God is calling me to do. Actually, six years ago, I used to find so many loopholes on social media apps to access porn that I got rid of my smartphone until I had three years of sobriety from porn and masturbation. Not everyone has to do that, but I just didn't think I'd be able to handle the temptation. So I could only access social media on my laptop for years. So know yourself. Make a list of things that will trigger your desire to act out the images, videos, things people say, content, emotions you feel, and tell people close to you about that and invite them in to helping you follow through on those commitments.

Yeah, that's such a great principle, I think, because in knowing yourself, what is okay for one person may not be okay for me, and vice versa. And what it makes me think of is that in the real world, there are different kinds of minefields. So, Ben, you were joking about your apartment lawn there, where there's dog poop, but if you step in that, you go home, you wash off your shoes, it stinks, it's kind of a mess, but you can move on. I've traveled in Bosnia where there are actual active minefields. They're still cleaning up from the Balkan conflict. And if you wander aimlessly through there, you could lose your life. And there are places on social media that for. For us, are like an active minefield where our life could be at stake. And so if, you know, if we're on social media on a dating website and we're married, but we're saying, oh, you know, it's just for fun, and I'm just kind of getting whatever joy out of it. But I would never go too far. I mean, you're walking through an active minefield that could cost you everything. And so there are. There are definitely some places we just have to decide with social media, I don't think that's healthy for anyone in my season of life or my gender or the struggles I have. But then also personalize it to say, what are other areas that for me, it's like an active minefield. It's far more than just getting something a little messy. It's something that has consistently led me into trouble, and I'm choosing to avoid it. And that's exactly what you're saying, Ben. And so often in our world, it's very countercultural because everyone's on Facebook, or everyone has Twitter, or everyone does this, and it's like, well, if it's leading me to things that destroy my sexual integrity, it's not worth it. And just making that choice to say that for me, and at least for now, this isn't something I can do. And having that courage to evaluate and know yourself is so important. So I really appreciate that.

And on the practical end of what you guys are also saying is that, like, if there's any app, what I would say is just avoid any app that allows porn or any explicit sexual content on it. Because for us, the way our brains work, we usually already have a plan of how to get around the loopholes we've created. So for me, Twitter was one of those. And so I've just gotten rid of it and so kind of, you know, off what you guys are saying, the idea of knowing yourself, but in that plan for the apps that you know, or the websites, you know, that allow that kind of content, just get rid of it now. It's better to do that now when we're in the harbor than when we're out at sea dealing with the storm. Right. And then the other thing is, and this is something I'm just kind of diving into now as I'm starting a new group and getting into it, get rid of any apps or make sure that you have stuff set up for the apps that don't allow reporting. So if you've got accountability software on your stuff, make sure that you are able to report that to your group, because accountability is going to be a huge motivator, too. If I know dudes are able to see what I'm looking at on social media or the type of stuff that I'm looking at, then I'm less likely to dive in and get into places I didn't want to. So those are just two practical ends I would go with.

That's great.

I've appreciated the number of friends I've seen that have shared Facebook accounts. And sometimes it seems odd that I'm, you know, sending a message to Brian and Debbie when I just want to say hey to Brian. But what it's communicating is that we're one and we're in this together and what I see, she sees and vice versa. You know, if you're a married person listening to this and Facebook or other social media sites are a struggle, talk to your spouse about, should we have a shared account? So there's that immediate accountability that where I go, you go. And it'll just change how we use that app. So that's something to keep in mind. And you know, for single guys, Ben, I don't know what you would say. The idea of maybe who you friend or just making sure you have some. That your friends can see where you're going on social media, that's probably really valuable for someone who's single. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, it is. You know, I don't think there's any reason why people should. Why any of my online activities should be a secret. And I still don't have an app for Twitter or Facebook. Whenever I access either of those, I go into the. Because I use Covenant Eyes. I go into the Covenant Eyes browser. And I like that because then all of that is going to get. Get reported.

Yeah, I wish there was a way.

To do that with Instagram because I love Instagram. But I want as much activity of my online activity to be transparent and to be recorded and visible at any time to those who know me.

And I feel like even in that, it's easy to. Because as I'm hearing you say that, I know that there are listeners out there who think, do I really have to be that extreme? Is it always going to be like that where I have to do those kind of things? But I don't think that it's just. As you're talking, Ben, it's not just you trying to avoid falling back into relapse or to temptation or to, you know, sexual impurity. It's also your desire to live a vulnerable and authentic life where people see you and you're not someone who's closed off. Am I right in that?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's not something I have to do. It's something I get to do. I've been free from porn and masturbation for five years now as a single guy. I was addicted for 12 years, so obviously I could fall back into it. But at this point in my sobriety, it's just the way that I've. That I live now. I want people to know my deepest, darkest things so that I can experience them knowing me and loving me and helping me and accepting me well.

And let's be honest, one of the greatest temptations men and women have been listening to from the very beginning is the idea that no one has to know. And that temptation, no one will know has led people astray for thousands of years. And that's what social media presents, is this opportunity to go and be who you want and do what you want and say what you want and look at what you want and Ask to look at someone else's, what they want, you know, and the idea of no one has to know, and if we could just eliminate that idea from our thinking, how much healthier we could be. So we're really kind of leaning into some of the negative aspects, the dangers of the social media minefield. But let's flip that around a little bit because we know it's not all bad. There's definite positive things that can come out of social media. So, Ben, what are the positive aspects of social media that you would identify?

Yeah, well, I think it depends on the person and where they're at in their journey because obviously social media isn't inherently bad, just like the Internet isn't inherently bad. It's what we do with it, what our motivation is and what we look at that determines the good or bad. But the question I'd like to propose is, are you using social media or is it using you? Are you using social media or is it using you? Do you use social media to love others, to connect with others, to build others up? Do you use it to be inspired, to follow people, artists, organizations, you you love, and to experience God's creativity and his good gifts and connection? Or is social media using you? Has it got you hooked as this way to escape, to numb out? Do you go to it to get that dopamine high or to feel good about the number of comments, followers or likes you have? And obviously this is tough because social media and apps are designed to rope you in, to get you addicted and stay on their platform from as long as possible to constantly send you these notifications and trigger dopamine and the reward pathway in your brain. But for me, social media has been more helpful than ever before before this past year. This past year has been incredible with social media now being a developing or a new speaker, a new Communicator, with Josh McDowell, Ministry, being an author, launching a ministry initiative. It's been so, so helpful to follow other speakers and other ministries to get to see what they do, to get creative ideas, to figure out how they're implementing technology, learning different strategies and tips, connecting with other people, keeping up with what God is doing around the world. But it's also been more detrimental, I would say, than ever this past year because what creeps in is that comparison. Oh, I only have this many followers, I don't have 600,000 like that person or oh my gosh, they're speaking to this many people, or as I'm speaking to this many people. So it's this constant evaluation of today, am I using social media or is it using me?

I think that's such a great point, Ben. And I would encourage listeners, if they answer that question, say, boy, I think social media is using me. One of the best steps you can take initially is turn off all those notifications because we do know that a notification can create a little hit of dopamine that your brain wants more. And so now you're kind of becoming a slave to that social media site because you want to know what they said or you want to go check it out. And if you want to gain control of your social media, then turn off the notifications and only go there when you choose to, rather than continually allowing temptation throughout your day to go that direction. And as I think of the positive aspects of social media, I know that in my life there are people I've been prompted to pray for that. Otherwise I wouldn't have even known what they were going through. There are friends I've been able to celebrate with because I hear about the birth or the job or the promotion and it's hard to keep track of all these friends from school and other places I've worked, but to hear their good news like, well, I got to celebrate with them. I've been challenged to think because of articles I've read or quotes people have posted that just really, otherwise I wouldn't have run across it. And I think I've been able to be an encouragement to others by things I've said or shared. And so when I look at those aspects, it's like, man, this can be a really fueling part of my life and I want to lean into those. But just like you said, that temptation to see, well, how come they didn't ask me to write that article? How come I didn't get to speak there? How come we're not experiencing that growth? That is a double edged sword that when I'm just kind of mindlessly checking out what's out there, it usually leaves me feeling more that sense of comparison than of gratitude. So I think that might be my advice. And where is social media healthy? Is what creates in us a sense of contentment and gratitude and do more of that. And if it creates a sense of comparison or competition, you know, avoid that.

Well, and another thing too is it gives you the opportunity to share your story, to share your life, to share your process. You know, Ben, as you're talking about starting up this initiative and it's such a great platform to really share what your life looks like and to share your own Sanctification. So I think that, you know, the people who, you know, I'm not telling you do it because you're gonna go viral, but I am gonna tell you that if you're an authentic and a vulnerable person who shares and uses this platform to really show what God's doing in your life, how he's moving you, how he's growing you, how he's reshaping the way that you think and see the world, I think that that can be very beneficial. And I've benefited from a lot of people doing that on social media that I don't have personal relationships with. And so the idea of inviting that person in and, you know, it doesn't matter if you use filters, it doesn't matter if you put, sometimes put your best foot forward. But just understand that if you're able to let people into what's really going on in your life, it can be really impactful for others.

That's great.

So, Ben, to follow up to the positive aspects of social media. You know, some of our listeners might be on the older side and they didn't grow up with the Internet and social media, and they maybe have a difficult time Understanding why 20, 30 somethings are so engaged with it. What kind of perspective might you share with someone that is just not comfortable social media and maybe even finds that they're a little critical or judgmental of anyone that does a lot on social media? What kind of. I guess, how would you explain social media in a way that maybe could help them be more aware and in tune with what's happening in younger generations, even if they don't personally choose to engage in social media to themselves? That level.

Yeah, great question. Well, as I've experienced it and watched kind of this communication shift happen in recent years with the accessibility of the Internet and social media. And in the research I've done, this next generation, young people even younger than me, I'm 29 now. But Generation Z, those that are 22 and younger today, they're growing up with, basically they come out of the womb and they get handed an iPhone or a smartphone and they're growing up surrounded by the Internet. You know, they use the Internet to communicate as one of their primary ways of connecting with other people. Trends are showing that premarital sex, that drinking, that, that drugs is going down with teenagers today. Why? Because they're in their room on a Friday night on social media. That's the preferred way of communication. They're not learning how to have these in person friendships. You know, if you go to a restaurant and you see a bunch of teenagers sitting together. It's not uncommon for them all to be on their phone and some of them are actually texting each other, gossiping about the other person. I was reading some research recently of a thousand teenagers who were asked what they wanted to be when they grew up. It wasn't a movie star, pizza maker, a food truck chef. Two thirds of them said that they wanted to be vloggers or bloggers. They wanted to be Internet celebrities. Yeah. And I was listening to this. He's probably late 20s, he's a YouTube celebrity. He's got about 4 million followers on YouTube and he does daily vlogs. And a psychologist was asking him why he thinks so many people watch his vlogs because they're really popular. And he said, well, I think young people today like to watch my, my vlogs because they feel like they have this personal relationship with me. They could follow me around all day. And the connection I made out of that was, wow. Vlogging is almost, depending on how you use it, is almost like the pornography of relationships. It's this cheap imitation. This is my friend, nothing against you if you're a vlogger. Like, I love watching vlogs, but it's this cheap imitation of people feeling like they have connection with and following someone around all day, but they don't have to give any effort to it. They can just sit and lie in their bed and feel like they have this deep friendship and be content. So I think this, this next generation is growing up surrounded by all of these ways the Internet is shaping them and how they communicate in relationships, and that's just the norm. So anything contrary to that, like a sit down conversation going to be weird or awkward or new. So they're using social media so much more than even my generation as millennials.

So most of this episode really has been focused on how detrimental social media can be. And it's easy as you're listening and even if you just look at the trends of today, that it's impossible to be a healthy social media user. So I think that we would say, even all three of us say that it is possible to be healthy and to be a user of social media. So, Ben, what does that look like? What does that actually look like, practically day to day as someone who's trying to maintain their integrity.

Yeah. Where's the good news? Well, I think it's healthy social media users, somebody who's simply striving to use social media as it's originally intended, simply to communicate and share information with others, be it inspiring others, building others up, loving others, keeping up with old friends. I try and use it as much as possible to be inspired to like I shared earlier, to think about creativity and learn what other people are doing. Ask if this is helping me move towards intimacy with others, then away from it. Can I look at what somebody's doing today and then tomorrow, hey, how did that go last night I saw on social media you were doing this. I know when people do that with me. Like, hey, you just got back from speaking in Mexico. It looked awesome. How did that go? I think that's a healthy way that we can use it. Not, you know, not being dependent on social media as this escape or to get affirmation of others, but being secure in who we are in Christ, as someone loved, forgiven and cherished and using social media. So I think this means we go into social media using it, knowing our triggers, knowing what we need to avoid, knowing that we can become dependent on it and knowing what's going to trigger us and just asking for help. But there's a couple things, a couple thoughts on using social media in a healthy way that may be helpful as I was thinking through this. One is to simply check your heart when you're going on social media or when you're posting something. Are you trying to inspire others or share what God is doing? Or share something cool that you've been learning? Why am I posting this? As Nick mentioned earlier, consider disabling notifications for social media apps. And I would even say on all the apps on your phone, I've actually done that. And it's been over a year now that I've had all apps disabled on my phone. In addition to keeping my phone on do not disturb. So if I get a text message, I don't get an alert. If somebody calls me once, it doesn't ring twice.

That explains why you've been a terrible friend to me every time I text you.

But I've learned to try and treat my phone just like I would email. Like I'll check it a couple times a day or several times a day, but I don't want to be constantly interrupted and controlled by a phone that says check it now. You got to get this dopamine hit. I'd rather check it when I intentionally take a break from what what I'm doing. Be willing to take a break from social media or delete it altogether or indefinitely get off of it, depending where you're at in your journey. I think another thing is to I've noticed our temptation humans can be. Whenever I get a spare minute, I'm checking my phone, I'm checking social media. But what if we instead texted a friend to see how their day is going? What if we talk to a stranger? If we're in a doctor's office in the waiting room, we talk to the stranger next to us. That's a revolutionary thought in this day and age. What if we talk to God instead and allowed this margin and space throughout our day? I think this is really important because I recently came across one social media report that said 18 to 35 year olds spend an average of 6 hours and 19 minutes per week on social media. That's almost an hour a day that we're spending on social media. So is that the best use of your time? It could be, but it might not be depending on why you're using it and if you're using social media or if it's using you.

I think those are such great thoughts, Ben. And when I think about what it means to be a healthy social media user, I think it comes down to that question of do I know who I am apart from social media? They're actually saying there's a phenomenon going on with younger adults where if they don't post about it, it feels feels like it didn't even happen. Like what makes an event or a day or something legitimate is I posted.

About it, pictures or it didn't happen?

Yeah, that is such a messed up way of viewing reality that we need to really self analyze. Is that the place I'm getting to where I can only define myself through social media? And if so, we need to disengage. Because to be a healthy person means I know who I am and I can have accomplishments or sorrows that I don't need to post about. And yet maybe I choose to post about them for a reason that I think is helpful to myself or others. And so I would just encourage every person to look at do I have an identity that is secure, secure in Christ, secure in real relationships that isn't dependent on social media? And just what you suggested, Ben, I think one of the best ways to do that is just by weekly having a Sabbath time from social media where there's a day a week where you don't need to be on, you don't need to post, you don't need to interact because you're just making sure you live engaged with the people around you. And so I think that's a practice that can really just reinforce our identity that Our identity is not found online. That our identity is first in Christ and in real relationships. And then if we choose to bring some of that into the online interactions, well, so be it. But then it's coming from a place of health and not of an unhealthy dependence.

So the only thing a couple. I'd just add a couple things to that. I think that doing whatever it takes to have integrity is important, even when it comes to social media. It's been easy for me as I've gotten rid of some of the apps and some of the. Some of using some of these things that it's easy to feel shame because of the comparison game. Well, this guy can use that or this girl can use this. And I think that the reality is you got to do what you got to do to be healthy and to have integrity and then a couple other just practical things. And we'll put this in the show notes, but we have a tech action plan that if you go through and make a plan for your devices, which I think, Ben, is really what you're talking about is just being intentional. So having a plan before you walk in, you would like to have the map of where the mines are at if you're gonna walk through the minefield. So I think that's important. And then, you know, this is just for listeners, just a personal example. I've started leaving my phone in my room when I come home. So I come home to see my wife and kid, and I found that if I have my phone out with me in the living room, even as my son's playing or I'm having a conversation with my wife, it's easy to get lost on my phone. And so if I leave it in my room, I find I spend less time isolating, even in public, around my kid and my wife. So that's just another practical thing that I would add.

That's great.

So, Ben, we really appreciate your time on this podcast and all the insights that you've brought. We like to end kind of the way we always do by asking this question. What are some final encouragements or what is a final encouragement that you would like to give our listeners when it comes to their social media use.

Yeah. I just reiterate some of the key things we talked about today, and that was knowing yourself and making a plan. What triggers you on social media, what's healthy for you, what's unhealthy? Think through those things, make a plan, what you'll do when that comes up and who you'll invite into that. And Just try that out this week. I think you'll find a much more enjoyable social media experience. If you're. You're walking away each time from social media, not feeling bummed out or that you're comparing yourself to someone, but. But you're using it in a healthy way. And then second that same question. Are you using social media or is it using you? Think about this, that this week, as you go to it, every time you get on social media this week, think about that question. Yeah.

You know, I think for me, being bold and courageous in the guardrails and boundaries that you set up, because you're never going to regret that. You'll regret it if you, you know, set up ones that, you know you can get around. But if you're bold and courageous, which are two things it will take to be healthy, you're never going to regret those boundaries or guardrails that you set up. So do those two things be bold and courageous?

Yeah.

And I think my final encouragement would be to remind all of us that you don't need social media. Preach. None of us need it. Ten to 15 years ago, we all lived without social media and we were all fine. But we are going through a culture shift that says you need to be online, you need social media, and that's not true. If it's something that we want to do and we're approaching it from a healthy perspective, it can bring a ton of benefits to our life. But if we're slipping into a place of thinking, I need this, then we've really distorted it into something that it's never meant to be. I mean, maybe the creators of those pages want us to think that, but in terms of a healthy worldview and how we see relationships really functioning, we don't need it. And so if it is creating problems in your life, as we've suggested in this podcast for a season, you may need to just lay it down completely to say, I need to be healthy more than I need social media. And as Trevor just said, you will never regret a decision like that, because, surprise, surprise, the world will go on without you. Social media will not miss you near as much as you think it will, but you will find integrity if that's what's needed and that's worth anything to achieve that. So just make that a mantra of your life. I don't need social media, but if in appropriate ways, it can help me live the kind of life God's called me to, then that can be a good thing.

I got one last thought. I've thought about this. Yeah. If. If life is about being fully known and fully loved by God and other people. And I think it is. If. If social media is inhibiting that, then I'm missing out and it's got. Got to go, like I said earlier. And so it's in. So it's not something that I get to do or have to do, getting rid of social media or using it less, but it's something that I get to do. And in that process, I actually find that I actually experience what I've wanted all along. And because that's the way I was created to have greater intimacy with God and other people.

Boom. This has been awesome. I was really looking forward to this episode. I feel like so much great content was shared. Ben, you're awesome. Appreciate your time. And we really just hope that any listener understands that pursuing sexual health and integrity requires really honesty about what can trip us up and what we need to do in order to be healthy and to have integrity. And man, at times, this requires avoiding really popular and even useful things in life in order to maintain that integrity. So these steps definitely require courage and humility and inviting people in. And just know, like we've said this, you will never regret pursuing integrity. You will never regret that. So do whatever it takes. Ben, thanks so much for your time, man. Appreciate it.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, guys.

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