082 - FAQ #7

Welcome to the Pure Desire podcast where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Before we jump into today's episode, we wanted to let you know about a brand new resource, Mended. One couple's journey from betrayal to imperfect beauty. Mended is the story of Rick and Tiffany Bowman. This story is how God healed a marriage that was destroyed by betrayal and and turned it into a powerful picture of his grace and healing. This testimony of relationship that went from broken beyond repair to rebuilt by God's mighty hand will give you practical tools on how to strengthen your marriage and find true intimacy. There is hope. When God works a miracle. Anything can be mended. To pick up your copy of Mended, visit PureDesire.org Mended enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host, as always, Nick Stumbo.

Cowabunga, dude.

So for some of you of our.

Older listeners, that is from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

That's right, baby.

All the way.

Bring it back.

My boys are getting to that age.

Bring it back.

It is coming back. Surprisingly, it wasn't that great the first time around, but it's still there.

Anyways, back with us today we have Heather Kolb. She's our content manager. She's our resident neuroscience genius speaking team member and a major contributor to our resources. Thanks for hanging out with us again, Heather.

Happy to be with you guys again.

So today's episode, lucky you, is frequently asked questions number seven, which technically is the number of perfection. So this episode will be perfect in every way.

What does that say about our last frequently asked questions?

They all were trash. I don't think you've ever probably heard someone on their podcast say their podcasts were trash. So forgive me. These episodes are where we're going to dive into all types of questions. We get lots and lots of great questions all the time, and these episodes are an attempt to really catch a chunk of them at all at once. So we hope that these episodes can answer your questions. If you have questions, make sure to send them in to us. We'll tell you how to do that at the end of the episode. So for times, I mean, we could sit here and chit chat because we like each other, you know, we hang out all the time. But we're gonna get to it.

Okay, that's good.

So the first question, the first two questions actually were sent in by Warren K. Thank you Warren. I know Warren. He's a nice guy. I like him. I talk to him pretty often. So I've heard it said. This is the question. I've heard it said throughout the podcast episodes that we can't be or aren't responsible for the healing, growth, et cetera, of others. So whether that's group members or spouses. So how do we bear one another's burdens according to scripture, in a healthy manner. And is that contrary to the traditional marriage advice of like, happy wife, happy life, or if she ain't happy, you ain't happy?

Well, the traditional marriage advice is true, but I would give some perspective on the, you know, bearing one another burdens. It really is important life to understand where do I end and where does another person begin and what do we share in common in the middle? And so as I recognize there's a place where I end and you begin, that I can't be responsible for your choices. I can't be responsible for your attitude or what you are happy about or angry about. But I can recognize there are things I may do to contribute, that I can either contribute to your happiness by the ways that I serve, the ways I express affirmation or encouragement, the ways that I choose to act in a loving way, that again, you may receive those and not be changed by them. You might choose to go in a different direction. And I can't control that. That's a lot of what I think it comes down to is control, to just recognize I don't control other people, I control me. And so I'm going to do what I can to contribute in a healthy way to this relationship. And so when it comes to recovery relationships, I think it's recognizing that to bear one another's burdens means I can't be responsible for what they choose to do, whether or not they follow guardrails or consequences in their life. But I can pray, I can be there to ask, how's it going? I can express acceptance when they're struggling. I can be a voice of encouragement or ask if, if I could share a story from my life or some advice, all those kinds of things that are part of me, offering what I have, but not trying to do it for you or to make your life perfect because I take over. So to express to someone, I'm here with you in this, We're a team. How can I help? Those are the kind of phrases you could use, whether with a group member or your spouse, to just express, there is a part of our life that we share that There's a part of me and a part of you that do meet. And so I can be a part of your life, but not take ownership or responsibility for things that really aren't mine to own or be responsible for.

And I think that it's important, too, that you remember that everyone's healing journey is going to have its own pace. And I think that sometimes for a spouse who is maybe a little bit more ahead of the other person, I think sometimes that can be a little bit challenging because they want to be at the same place at the same time, and that's kind of an unrealistic expectation. And it might be that you just have to be okay with where they are and let them process their journey at their own pace and know that at some point you will catch up.

Yeah.

Yeah. And just another comment on, you know, the happy wife, happy life, particularly in the case where maybe our spouse is unhappy because of our addictive behavior or the trauma we've caused. We have two choices there where if we try to focus on how do I make them happy, that will lead to one kind of behavior in our life, or if I focus on what were my behaviors that created this scenario, and I focus on altering those behaviors and living a changed life, I'd say which of those two is more profitable? Well, obviously it's looking at, again, what I can control, what were my behaviors, and how do I really live in a new and changed way so that I don't cause more of that pain versus, you know, what I did for 10 years in my marriage as an addict was just try to fix her anger by making what can I do to make you happy? How can I make it better? But that didn't fix the situation. So I think that might be a perspective to keep in mind. Is, am I looking at making them happy or. Or changing my behavior so that I create an environment where they may be able to choose happiness long term.

And, I mean, I've experienced this. This question for me plays out more in a group leader and the idea of, if a group member's not doing well, I can't care more about their recovery than they can. So really, my two cents for this is, what posture are you adopting when you come into these thoughts? Is it a posture of, I'm the teacher and I'm responsible for this person, or is it the posture of I'm someone walking alongside them and supporting them? Because I think that if you're coming in as the teach and thinking, I'm this leader, I need to make sure you're healthy, then you're putting on unrealistic responsibilities. But then if you're coming someone who's supportive, it's more asking questions than it is telling them what it looks like or what they should be doing. You really look at yourself as a wingman rather than as a flight leader.

Yeah, yeah. So true. So our second question from Warren K. Is this. He says it can be tough for guys to hear phrases like fall in love with Jesus or something about creating a more intimate relationship with him. Are there any tips or encouragement for guys who struggle when it's been pounded into their head that increasing love and. Or intimacy means sex? So I think, great question there. How do we understand the relationship we have with Christ even in some of the terminology that maybe society or in our past has only been associated with.

Sexual things, then that's a great question because it first then causes us to need to redefine what intimacy means. And really intimacy is, reflects a closeness or even a knowledge of another person. It really doesn't have anything to do fundamentally with sex. But having this, this knowledge of somebody else or another person, that is different than a knowledge that you have in almost any other relationship. And so I think that that is what needs to happen. When we look at this idea of falling in love with Jesus, it has to do with cultivating a relationship that comes from a knowledge of j. Of really, you know, looking at his Word, but also having that experience with Jesus. When you have times in your life where you feel his presence, that's what's going to help you to understand that intimacy and that closeness that you can have with Jesus. Even though he's not seen, but he can be intimately felt.

Yeah. You know, for me, when I think about this, what I'm hearing is like, it seems like almost like a sissy thing to be in love with Jesus if you're a guy. And I think, here's the thing. If you look in the Old Testament and you read about David, we're talking about the dude who literally killed a giant, was a great military leader. I would use a bad word, but I'm just gonna say he was a ba. He was a stud. He was a boss, like he, he was. But he was also the dude who wrote a bunch of soft feely songs to the Lord. He's the guy who danced around when worshiping the Lord. And I look at that and even as I'm saying it, I'm like, I don't know if I wanna do that. But if you look in Scripture, there's Only one guy in all of scripture that was said who had, like, he was a man after God's own heart, and that was David. And I'm not saying that that makes him better than anyone else, but I'm saying if you want to look at somebody who's a complete man who had his faults, but was faithful to the Lord, and the Lord blessed him, it's David who experienced both the like, I'm a man, I can do this, I got this, whatever. And then also the softer side, understanding what that intimacy with God really looks like. So I think that's a great example in Scripture that we can see and try to base or model our life off. Not all of it, some of life off of.

Yeah. I think it's also important to just recognize what are the images or pictures that come to our mind when we hear a phrase. So if you think of falling in love and what you're picturing is, you know, romantic candle at dinners and, you know, those gooey feelings that you had as a teenager for someone, and then you're trying to apply that to Jesus, that's going to feel awkward. So you may need to develop or choose some new pictures or images that come to mind that have. Fall in love means enjoying being around someone, appreciating a laugh, friendship with someone. Well, I could see that with Jesus, I'm learning to enjoy his presence, to be comfortable around him, to find enjoyment in who he is and what he said in his Word. And now it's just, it's changing that phraseology by what comes to mind. And then I can lean into it as opposed to just feel like, well, that's not for me, maybe it's what's coming to mind and what we're picturing that could change.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, and this is also not just an issue for men, but it's an issue for women. Because when women have had some, you know, misinformation that love equals sex, they will come up with the same thing of a misrepresentation of what it means to love Jesus. And so this is. I mean, this isn't just a guy thing.

Yeah, good observation.

So on the road to recovery, we talk a lot about changing our old negative behaviors, but a lot of times that's not enough. We need to replace those behaviors with healthy behaviors.

So.

So what are some practical examples of healthy behaviors in recovery?

Yeah, for me, this question's talking about the taking off of the old man and putting on the new. And so for me, some of the things. And actually, I'll Go back to something, I think, Nick, that you said on one of our podcasts is the idea of asking the question, when I do this activity, what kind of man, what kind of person am I after? Am I a worse person? Do I come back and I'm more isolated and more distant and more upset, or do I come back in a healthier space where I'm ready to engage life? And so that idea of self care. So for me, a couple of them, fitness is always a good one. And I know when I say fitness, you think of like heavy lifting and running and look, you don't have to do that. For me, honestly, fitness sometimes looks like chasing my son around the house because he's super fast. But then other times it's like you're going to play basketball or go play tennis or go on a hike or doing something active, right? Yeah, like where you're able to get the blood flow going, which, you know. And Heather talks about it a lot. That really, that helps and caters to a holistic health in so many ways. But honestly, a couple things for me and listeners probably won't be surprised, but movies and reading are two of the things that I love. I'll go see a movie by myself, not because I'm isolating, not because I don't want to be around people, but just knowing that that's one of the things that I walk away with. And I'm kind of weird and nerd about movies, but I'll walk away with more inspiration. I'll walk away in a better mood just knowing that I've invested time in just me relaxing and getting to enjoy a story. And it's the same thing with reading. So you can, those things can absolutely be something that you do that are negative and, and withdrawn, but you just find those things that give life to you and fuel you. And again, ask that question, am I a better person when I come back from these things? And if the answer is yes, then those are the things you should pursue.

When I think about the amount of time that so many of us wasted in our addiction through lust, fantasy, acting out, you know, whatever, and it's trying to think through what are things I could use my time on, literally my energy and the free time I have towards something healthy or productive. I think for a lot of people, that's developing a hobby, getting into carpentry or woodworking, perhaps gardening, some kind of crafting or wood card making, and maybe even it even has a financial aspect to it where you might sell something and feel good about a way that you're earning money. I mean, it doesn't have to, but things that rather than occupying your free time with surfing the Internet and wasting time on tv, now I'm in the garage working on a project for my kids with wood, or I'm out in the garden. And as that fills our life, I think what also happens is those things begin to fill our mind. That when we're not thinking about anything, what we can drift towards is, well, what's the next project I want to build? Or what's the next thing I want to plant? Or what do I need to learn about my garden? And now our mind is directed to something engaging and healthy versus just drifting towards those old negative patterns. I think so many people get trapped just by I've got. I'm sitting around or laying in bed at night and have nothing else to think about and I go back to that old place versus, oh, that book I'm reading or that project I'm working on that can in a healthy way redirect our thoughts.

And I think that it's important too to know yourself when it comes to your behaviors. There's times when, for me especially, I love isolation. And not in an unhealthy way, but I love my quiet, peaceful life. But I also recognize that that doesn't help me to cultivate relationship with God and others. And so I have to intentionally make myself join a ladies Bible study or do something so that I'm around people, even if it's once a week, because I know that I love my time alone. That. Then again, that's not healthy for me at some point.

Yeah. Okay, so moving on to the next question. And maybe this is more of my generation, but the more I think about it, I actually think this is something that everybody, especially as a believer, asks. So lots of men and women in recovery will ask questions like, can I watch shows like Game of Thrones or Outlander? Can I watch these? Can I experience these? And how do we. So that's the first question. Can we watch shows like that? And then the second part is how do we decide what we can learn or can't watch? As far as media in recovery?

Yeah. I think what comes to mind for me in this area is that there are really two things to consider. First is just our convictions. Depending on our beliefs, our family of origin, how we interpret scripture, we may have convictions about what's right or wrong. And I think we need to be faithful to those convictions. So if it's our conviction to not watch something rated R or not See something with violence or nudity, and that's where we're at. We just need to be comfortable with that. Even if we have friends that we respect that don't feel that way and to realize, oh, that's not necessarily wrong, it's just my conviction. And we're all going to have different convictions. But the other second one I would say, I would describe as outcomes. When you watch something, what are the outcomes of it? And just like you were saying earlier, Trevor, am I moved towards goodness and godliness, or does it move me towards my old addictive behaviors? So if I watch Game of Thrones and realize that afterwards, I am more susceptible to lustful thinking. I'm picturing stuff that I saw. Even if we say, oh, well, I skip all the nude things or I skip sexual things, you still know where it's headed. And your mind might create the scene and you might be battling that. Or you watch something that's violent and you find, I just find myself more prone to punch angry. I'm a more angry person. Or the language, I tend to repeat the language I'm hearing. You need to be honest with yourself about the outcomes. And if those are the outcomes it's producing, honestly, you don't need that in your life. And I'm a big believer of garbage in, garbage out. And if you're getting garbage out, you need to be very honest with yourself and say, I need to guard the garbage I'm putting in. Now, it's not always direct. There are definitely things that come out of me that I can't blame on a movie or a TV show. And so it's not a perfect system. But if I do realize, man, there's a lot of anger in my life and I realize I'm watching a lot of violent, anger driven TV shows, well, I need to be honest, say, I don't think I can do that in my life because it doesn't produce good outcomes. So I'd encourage everyone just to look at what are your convictions and be okay with them and voice them when you need to, to tell friends, I'm, I'm sorry I can't go to that movie with you. It's just about my conviction. And then the second one about outcomes, what are the outcomes it's producing in your life?

If you watch a lot of Punisher and you realize you've bought all the guns and all the clothes and you walk out of your house, then you might have a problem.

Yeah, maybe a little.

So continuing this theme, we're on in a lot of these questions about our habits and hobbies. Many of us have habits or hobbies that on the surface don't seem unhealthy. But then in recovery, we start to see things a little differently. So how do we know if we've begun to use a healthy habit in an unhealthy way? What's the distinction between healthy exercise and compulsive excessive exercise as an example?

So we get this question in various forms a lot at the conferences, and a lot of times it comes down to really whether or not our behaviors, even if they appear healthy, are pushing us toward relationship or pulling us into isolation. I remember one woman asking, because she loves to read, and there's nothing wrong with reading, and that can be a really great thing to do. And her question was this exact thing. When does it become unhealthy? Well, if you're reading and you're neglecting your family and you're not feeding your kids, and you don't shower and get out of your jams in the morning because you're reading, then you might have a problem. But it really is looking at, you know, what direction is our behaviors pulling us, even when they are, you know, healthy to some extent, if. When do they become something that is overboard? And again, it's having those healthy boundaries even with our healthy habits is really.

Important when I think too, when people around you, like, pay attention to how they respond. Because there have been times where I'm like. And I feel like I reference this a lot, but there was a season where I was reading through Harry Potter and I just was engrossed in it. And I remember I would just tell my wife, you know, I'm gonna go back and read. And if she rolled her eyes at me, and don't get me wrong, I'm not calling my wife out. Like, she was right to do that. But if she rolls her eyes, then I'm probably should be like, hmm, okay, maybe this is something I shouldn't go do. So if it's something that is negatively affecting someone else, pay attention to that. Because if you're someone who goes out, you know, I think about in the church, you know, we've gotten to this point now in the church where drinking can be okay for some people. Like, it's, you know, it's an okay thing. But if you're saying, I'm gon out and have another drink tonight with some friends and another one of your friends looks at you and goes, really? Again, something like that, you need to pay attention to those things, because those could be warning signs that those habits are becoming unhealthy.

Dr. Yeah, that's wise. And I think it's the difference between is the activity about avoidance and escape or is it about enjoyment and growth and nurturing my soul? So for me, you know, the hobby of running is a big one. And if I get home at 4:30 and the house is a little chaotic and the kids are all over the place and there's dinner to be made and I'm like, well, I'm going for a run, that can be a convenient way to get out of a whole lot of stuff and just be like, good luck, honey, it's up to you. Versus if I do it at a time of day when it's not disturbing the family rhythm, and it's something my wife and I know, okay, I'm running at this time. It is very fulfilling. So I can do the exact same activity and find physical benefits from it, but I can be using it to avoid and escape my life or to try to add greater depth and enrichment to my life.

Yeah, absolutely.

So good. So another question that we have today is what are some of the things married couples can do together after they've already gone through their individual group and found some healing? What can they do together?

A couple ideas I would mention. I think one of the things for many couples that occurs during a season of being in pure desire groups is they're feeling pretty connected because they're talking a lot at a deep level, they're engaging pretty intense conversations, and some of them may have been hard, but it's leading to growth. And, and when you're kind of in a season, then where you're not in groups, that connection is what you really need to hold onto. And so maintaining a weekly connecting night, call it a date night, call it couple time, couch time, whatever phraseology use it doesn't mean you have to be out sitting at a restaurant paying money, but just say, here's a night, a week, it's about us. It's about our relationship. It's not about planning meals or figuring out who's running, which kid to which sport. It's just remembering this is my friend and the person I'm doing life with and let's enjoy tonight for us. I think that's key. And, and then the second thing I would mention is the workbook connected. If couples haven't used that is just a great way to deepen your relationship by getting to know one another through the lens of some questions and tools you've probably not used before. And it can be something to add to those connection nights or date nights, or just some couple time to answer questions together, say, well, how do you feel about this? How do you feel? And it continues your growth and really builds on what you've been learning and doing in your group. So we don't recommend that someone use Connected before they've been in group because it can be triggering, it can create a lot of anger because it'll get into your stuff. But if you're at a place where you're experiencing some growth and healing, a workbook like Connect could be a really valuable next step.

You know, too. And it's if you've gone through group, we always encourage people to go back and lead a group. And so if you and your spouse have gone through group, and I would suggest maybe going then forward and both leading a group and understand that when you come back together and talk about it, you're not sharing details, you're not sharing the stories that were shared, you're not talking about who's in group. But when you lead, you get this other layer, the second layer of understanding the issues, understanding your own, and really understanding more about the topic in general and intimacy and relationships. And so there can be a bonding over that. Where in group this week, I learned this about my story based on conversation that happened in group, and then vice versa. And you bring that together, and that's just gonna, like, help pad that foundation even more of your relationship. And so I think that leading in groups and doing that together as spouses and separ separate groups and then coming together and sharing that experience can be really powerful.

And I think that too, for couples that if they decide to use, like, Connected or something like that, that they want to, you know, go through a workbook together, then remember that you guys get to set the rules that you don't have to go through a whole chapter. Because when my husband and I started doing that, it would take us three hours to go through a chapter. So then we just decided that, okay, we're just going to do these two pages for next week. And because there was so much depth to some of the questions. And so that's another thing to keep in mind, too, that it's great to have those conversations, but don't put a bunch of rules around it. You know, that makes it not as enjoyable.

You know, something else I'd encourage is just for couples to look for opportunities to tell their story. I mean, if you're at that season where you've been through groups, you're experiencing healing and change. Just pray and ask God, who could we encourage? Because in all likelihood every single person listening has friends and other couples they're connected to that are trapped in some difficult stuff. They have no one to talk to, they don't know how to. And maybe it's on a couple's date just sharing your story and not to like pressure them, okay, what's yours? But just say, hey, we wanted, you're friends of ours. We just want to share something God's been doing in our life over the last couple years. Or maybe it's getting the opportunity in your church or with family. There's so many ways that when you do that together. What I've seen for my wife and I, every time we share our story together, somehow it encourages us, it strengthens our relationship and it really creates that sense of God using us together, which I think a lot of couples have never had much of that experience. It's like, well, she does that, he does this. This is really something you can do together is share your story and for people to see the realness behind it. So I'd say just look for those opportunities.

Yeah, so good. Alright, so the next one is this question and it's true, right around this time you kind of get into the end of January, February, March, and it's that time of year where people send a back off of their New Year's resolutions, right? All the gyms no longer have those new signees. But it's not just New Year resolutions, but also goals. So what are some tips for people who right now have set some goals? What are some tips for them? Re engaging in those and really starting to create more traction.

This is a great question because a lot of times people, we tend to set unrealistic goals for ourselves. And so that would be, probably my first recommendation would be that you look at your goal. Was it something that was realistic? Was it something that maybe you can reframe a little bit to make it more something that you want to do, something that is more attainable. And then the other thing too is that, and especially when it comes to addictive prone behaviors, we tend to, you know, not be satisfied with just one goal. But we have 37 goals. And so of course we're going to feel overwhelmed by that. And so again, go back, pick one thing, pick one thing that you can work on consistently for a month and just set that as your goal. That okay, every, you know that this month I'm gonna get at least seven hours of sleep every night. And that's my goal. And that's it. I'm not gonna focus on anything else. Because if we try and wait until we feel like doing it, we're never gonna do it because we don't feel like doing it. We have to decide. We have to think that we're gonna do it and put that in motion first. Until then, our feelings can catch up with this new habit or this new goal.

Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's why we're stuck in what we're stuck in, right? Because it's not easy to change. And what we're currently doing is convenient. It feels good. The thing I would remind us is, why did we set the goal to begin with? Did we set it because it was January 1st or because we needed to bring some healthy change into our lives and we'd all go, well, I need to make some healthy change. And if that's the case, then it doesn't matter what day it is, what time of year. If that's a goal you need to make, just keep after it and don't go, well, okay, now I'm going to wait till June 1st or whatever some magical time is, because just like you were saying, Heather, there will probably never be a good time or a convenient time. There's always going to be something in your life saying, oh, do this later. So just decide, okay, today I'm going to keep doing that one thing. I'm going to take the next step because I'm doing it because I need health in my life, not because it was January 1st. And just keep going. Don't grow discouraged. If you've lost track, jump right back in and take the next step.

Usually the goals that don't end up being consistent for me are things that I made on my own and didn't include other people. And so I think that that's another thing, too, is that if you've started this goal of I want to be more patient this year, let me just say, don't surround yourself with people who, like, tick you off all the time, because that's not going to help. But invite people in and say, hey, I want to work on patience this year. Can we meet once a month? Maybe read through this book, maybe go through this resource and really invite that person in? Because when accountability is there, or that type of relationship where you've got consistent points of contact with someone regarding this goal, that's going to help you and motivate you. And even if it's something as small as I'm meeting with my friend this week and I Haven't done what we said we were going to do. Just knowing that that meeting is coming will motivate me in the moment. Okay, I got to do this, I got to jump in. So I mean I know that that can almost seem like a life hack or a cheat. It's not. Include other people. It's always going to help.

Alright guys, great Q and A here. One more question and this is a unique one that hopefully a lot of people experience. But my guess is there's only a few so far. But let's ask it and answer it in faith that this will become a growing problem.

Speak it into existence. That's right.

Is there such a thing as having too many leaders for a pure desire group? What do you do if there are multiple people in the same group who feel led to lead?

So I to a degree have experienced this a little bit. But one of the things that I had in my first group when I was going there was a guy who was doing really good, he was co leading with me and it was one of those things where there was another group of guys that wanted to go through group and he basically asked our group for permission, can I leave our group and go join and lead these guys and talk to our group. And we're like yeah, go for it. As long as you're being consistent and you've established some sobriety and some health. But I think that sometimes the heart of this question can get to the point where there are guys in group who want that position more than they want the responsibility or honor of kind of leading in vulnerability. And so I think that asking the question up front, is this something you're just wanting to check off? Is this a box that you want to tick or is this something that you feel led to do to help other people? Because look, there's always going to be more people who need to get in groups. So if you do find yourself in this beautiful situation where all six guys in your group want to be leaders, I wouldn't say split the whole group up. But if there are guys who are ready right now and have the right motivation, I think it is okay in some circumstances to split and to have those people take a new group through as they're starting in their journey. And I think that you're going to see fruit from that.

And I'd say if you've got a situation where you have extra leaders, there's a reason I think God's using that and it might mean we're ready to open up to the whole church and Maybe run like the Conquer series where we have seven, eight tables going and we've got the leaders for it. Or another situation I've seen is to say we've got guys to lead two more groups but we don't know who wants to join them. Reaching out to other churches around you that don't have groups and being clear to say, hey, we're not looking to get people to come to our church. This is outside of the weekend service thing. There's a healing place for people struggling with these issues. And would you just let your, let your congregation know there's an opportunity and find a way to open the doors for others? Because like I said, I believe if you have too many leaders, God is doing something there and he wants you to use them. I would echo what you said, Trevor. You want someone to go ideally all the way through a round of group first, not a couple months in, be like, oh no, I've got it now I'm good to go. That they've experienced the whole cycle of a group and then they can jump out. So once they're at that point though, if you've got too many leaders, just say, God, how can we use this to bless others? Because I believe he's got a plan there.

Yeah, cool. Well, guys, that's it. We did it. Another faq and obviously this was a perfect episode.

It felt perfect.

No one coughed, no one sneezed, no one threw up. It was perfect.

Was that point you almost swore, which, I don't know. Would it still have been perfect? I don't know.

Yeah, it's okay. Moving on. So I love these episodes because I just like that we're able to do these fast hitting type of questions, cover so many topics and we desire to learn a lot from these episodes personally. So one of the things that we really want for you guys as listeners is if you want to submit questions and get them answered on these episodes, there's a couple ways you can do that. You can email your questions to infouredesire.org using the subject line PD Podcast. Again, that's infouredesire.org and then use the subject line PD Podcast. Or you can post your question on social media. I know that's really scary. It's going to be okay. Using the hashtag PDFAQ again, pdfaq. So if you have questions, send them in. We're always looking for more. And Nick, Heather, thanks guys.

Thanks.

Good day. Thanks, Trevor.

And thank you for listening to the Pure Desire podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe. You can also rate and review our podcast and let us know how we're doing. For more information, check out our website, PureDesire.org. you can follow us on social media. EaredesirePDMI. Once again, that's EaredesirePDMI. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. For more information, check out our website www.puredesire.org. check in each week for new content on the podcast and we pray that it will help you find hope and freedom on your journey to pursue.