089 - The Female Addict

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. Hey, ladies. I wanted to let you know about an upcoming event, the Pure Desire Women's Conference. This two day conference is designed to help all women find grace and peace in their daily lives. Doesn't that sound nice? Regardless of where you've been in your life, through this event you'll get a break from the daily grind. You get a fresh dose of encouragement, and look, you'll also get practical tools to help you find emotional, spiritual, and sexual health. This conference is from April 5th through 6th at the Sheraton Portland Airport Hotel. I'm excited for you to hear from Heather Kolb, Ashley Jamison, and our featured speaker, Patty Moreno. Come gather with other women looking to find ways to be healthier people in today's world. To register and get more info on the speakers on the schedule and more, visit PureDesire.org PDWomen Again, that's PureDesire.org PDWomen that's all I got for now. Enjoy the podcast. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

I say, I say, what's the big idea? Pay attention to me, son.

All right, so fill people in.

Do you know?

I think I know, but I don't want to publicly say it out loud and be wrong.

Well, very courageous of you. For those who grew up watching the Looney Tunes, the that is Foghorn Leghorn. And some of his classic lines anytime an episode featured him. So, yeah, that's like a product of my childhood. Definitely.

I don't know that one.

You know what I call it? Foghorn Leghorn, the giant chicken who was always giving advice to his son, which was a little baby chicken with a baseball hat.

And is that the one who's like I say, I say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's why I just say, I say.

Okay, see, now it's coming back. I'm glad that I didn't publicly say it at first, but look, we're gonna move on, okay? All right, so joining us today is Heather Kolb. You've already heard from her. Heather's our content manager, one of our speakers, our resident neuroscience expert, and we're glad to have her back with us. Thanks for being here, Heather.

Thanks for having me.

So today's episode is going to be focused on the female addict, whether it's porn or sex. Addiction. This can and does affect a lot of women in our world. And not only does it affect them, but it really is a difficult topic for people to address, especially in the church. So we want to talk through what this addiction looks like from the female perspective. And it seemed wrong for me and Nick to talk about it as two men. It felt like it was very important to have a female perspective here.

Well, and we wanted to make sure to feature this from time to time because I think even though most people would say, yeah, I know it's a female problem too, if you look at just the amount of resources that are out there, most of it's geared towards men, written by men and for men. And so we want to make sure that we're addressing both sides. And I'm excited that today's episode will really be focusing in on what are some of the particulars that women face in this area.

Alright, well, let's jump into the first question. Heather, let's start with this. What are the statistics regarding porn or sex addiction with women?

So this is a great question because historically women have been underrepresented in this area, but we're getting better at this. And so today it seems that approximately one third of people who struggle with sex addiction are women and about one fifth of those who are seeking treatment are women. So again, it's on the rise.

Yeah, that is kind of crazy. I mean, I feel like it is such a male dominated type of thing. But then when you look at the stats, it's almost, I think on one end it's not as surprising to me because it's like it's a people thing. I mean, you know, we're human and we're broken, but at the same time it's like really like, you know, it is kind of a knee jerk kind of thing when you hear those statistics.

Yeah, definitely. Here's some other things that have to do with pornography, which is also again on the rise. Approximately 1% of American women use pornography daily. And it's estimated that about 7% of American women use pornography weekly. The younger generation, of course, is more likely to actively seek pornography rather than women who are 25 years and older. So you see a little discrepancy there. And then some of the reasons why women use pornography is different than what you see among men who struggle with pornography or sex addiction. So. So women tend to use it for personal arousal, curiosity and even tips for their own sex life. Kind of trying to see what men expect women to do when it comes to sex. And so trying to figure out what that looks like. Some of the reasons, Yeah, I was.

Looking lately on the Covenant Eyes stat pack. They do one every year, and they were looking at some surveys of high school seniors, and you'd expect over 90% of boys said, yeah, they viewed pornography, but the number for girls was 70%. So that. That wasn't asking anything about frequency, but just to know that 70% of high school senior girls are saying, yeah, I've viewed. Not just I've stumbled on it or someone showed, but I've viewed pornography. And that's a large number. And so I think we're trying to address why does this have a hook for women? So to jump into our next question, Heather, we often hear that men are visual, and we know that there's an obvious appeal there to pornography. It's assumed that because of that, though, women are less visual and thus would be less drawn to it. So share with us. Why does pornography appeal to women in particular?

So it's interesting because most pornography is developed or created for a male audience. And so when it has images that are degrading to women or show any abuse to women, then that's not sexually arousing to women. But it's interesting that the type of pornography that is sexually arousing for women is the type that typically tells a story. I mean, we love the relational aspect of even pornography. Something that plays to our emotional heart, that plays into our fantasy, and that's what becomes sexually arousing to women compared to just a physical image on the screen, which is more sexually arousing to men. But women, we're all about the erotic story or the emotional mood that is really sexually arousing.

Which would explain why all of the steamy novels that you see out there are very, very rarely toward a man. It's all toward. I mean, there's always the shirtless dude on the front who makes us all feel terrible about our bodies. Right. Thanks so much for all that. But that makes sense.

Yeah, definitely. And fantasy is a huge part. I mean, because all of that relational aspect and that emotional aspect plays into the fantasy part that women, we like that.

Well, I wonder, too. We had Jay Stringer, the author of Unwanted, on the podcast a little while back, and he talked about how very often our struggles currently are ways of actually reliving trauma and reliving abuse. And we asked him about that because that seems counterintuitive. But he brought up how the brain is made for pleasure and is made for sexual touch to be arousing, even if it was done in a very negative or abusive way, and that for some people, they can find themselves repeating their trauma. And so we also know from research that one out of three women will say they were sexually abused sometime before the age of 18. So do you think that contributes that for some women there, there's an unaddressed area of trauma in their life that maybe without realizing it, they're reliving that trauma now as adults through pornography?

Yeah, that's definitely an issue, because research has found that a lot of women who struggle from sex or pornography addiction, that they did have some form of sexual abuse or sexual trauma, and in their past, that, again, is fueling their behavior.

And to me, too, it just addresses, I think, what all humans feel with pornography is that push, pull. And we've talked about it on the podcast, that there's a part of me that feels repulsed, that doesn't want it, that knows somehow this is not healthy or good for me, and that's the push. But there's a pull of, like, I'm intrigued. It's interesting, it's arousing, it's causing something to happen in my brain maybe that I haven't felt before. And I would think, especially for women, that feel of there's something here drawing me that I can't explain even at the very same time. Well, I feel like I don't want this. And so maybe just to encourage women who are hearing this, that's a pretty common thing for us as human beings, and not to beat ourselves up over that, but to pay attention to why. Why do I feel both? You know, in any area of life, if I'm feeling both a push and a pull, I want to figure out what's going on here, definitely.

So in the world that we're in, and especially in the church, porn and sex addiction, again, is assumed to be a man issue. That's just the primary, I think, default setting for a lot of people. So how does that assumption affect women, though, in the church, who struggle?

Yeah, that's a great question, because I think that that in and of itself creates confusion for women. I think that they might feel that, okay, maybe I am struggling with some form of sex addiction or pornography addiction, but yet I can't be because I'm not a guy. And so this wouldn't apply to me. And sometimes we'll put a label on them, like, well, maybe it's a love addiction or a relationship addiction, when really it is a sex addiction. And so, again, there's overlap in that diagnostics, but you have to Be careful with it. I think another thing that really hurts women or causes shame for women is the fact that it is considered a man's issue and so not just a human issue. And so I think that that drives down that core belief of women that. That there's something wrong with me, that I'm damaged, that I'm doing something that women aren't supposed to do, or really the core belief of that I'm the only one, that I'm the only woman who's struggling this way. So I think that that's huge. There's also some other natural consequences that come from this assumption for women and why they have a harder time with not only recognizing it, but even coming forward. And that is unwanted pregnancies, greater prevalence of STDs, some of these things that are the consequences of their behavior. But again, it is one of the things that for many of us who struggle, it's why we stay hidden and especially from other women.

Yeah. As you were sharing, Heather, I was thinking about how stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason. We'd say men in general like football, and that's a stereotype, and it became one because there's truth to it. But it doesn't mean that women can't be fans. There are many, many women that are football fans, but percentage wise, they're smaller and yet they still exist. And I think of that in pornography, the stereotype exists because there's some truth behind it. The percentages, the numbers of men struggling is greater. But just because it's a smaller percentage doesn't mean it's any less true or any less damaging or any less needed for them to have safe avenues of healing. So let's talk about that. What does healing look like? And in particular in the church, since that's really where we're aimed at as an organization, is how do we help the church? So what do you think, Heather, a church can do to diminish the shame for women who are struggling in this area?

I think that one of the places to start is awareness. You know, just recognizing that sex and pornography addictions are not just a man's problem, but all of us struggle in these areas. And then also, you know, educating the church on sex and pornography issues. And really, I think the more that we can understand about this behavior, understand that, you know, we're sexual beings and God designed us to be this way. But how is it that our trauma then kind of gets in the way of God's plan for our sexuality? And really how the enemy uses our trauma against Us. And. And I think that when we start to recognize that people who struggle with sex and pornography addiction, they really are wounded and that we need to be sensitive to that and compassionate and give them grace when we can.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's so great to say that God made us sexual beings because he made men and women sexual beings, not just men. Like men are sexual and women are not. That we're all sexual beings, and the expression may look different among the genders, but women are created in the same manner to be sexual as men. Men are by a God who loves them and cares for their bodies. That our sexuality wasn't God's great big whoops, you know, it was part of his design. And I think for a church to look at, how can we encourage people to go back and just see God's design in their life and be okay with that? And then what do I do with what God put there? And then how did. How did sin or mistakes I've made take this in a direction I didn't intend? And as the church can give that message to all people, men and women, I think it really gives us freedom to start from that place of this is God's design. And I want to get back to his intent and really look at how can I honor him with how I use my body and my sexuality.

Yeah. You know, a couple things that come to mind for me are practically, like, when you're talking about this issue, use specific female examples or illustrations. And don't just say, we struggle as a church. You know, we struggle sexually. Actually say, and use a female and use her name or use, you know, something like that, where you're making it really clear this story or illustration is about a woman. And then the other thing really that comes to mind too, is like having women share their story. Have women come forward who have gone through some sort of healing, who have struggled with this and can just finally diminish the shame in the room and say, look, I'm a woman and I struggled with this. And I found that I'm not the only one. Because a church, really what that does is that opens people up. And, you know, as I'm saying this, I'm thinking there's going to be people, specifically, maybe even older women or women who have grown up in the church who. Who will kind of balk at that, will be like, okay, like, that's really not what it's like. And maybe you will make them feel uncomfortable. But that's better than making someone feel like they don't belong at your church. That one, maybe that two. Maybe those 15 women that are in your congregation that Sunday who hear that or who hear that through communication, you're gonna reach those people so much better if you just start to be specific about the fact that women do also struggle with this.

Yeah. And that raising awareness is huge, because the minute that women start stepping out and saying, I struggle in this, then it gives other women that freedom to say, yeah, I struggle too. And I'm so glad that we can figure this out together.

Yeah. So, okay, let's talk about now what recovery might look like. And what I mean by recovery is someone who is progressing, is finding freedom from this addiction, from this struggle, is establishing sexual health in their life. What does that look like, that process of recovery for someone who is a woman who is struggling with this?

Okay. So when men and women really, there's a lot of things that. That overlap that seem very similar to men who struggle and women who struggle. But then there are those unique differences that. That really. That women have to address outside of, you know, the bigger issues. And so I think that one thing is to remember that sex addiction is not about sex. That it's about medicating some past pain and trauma and. And really being able to get to that root cause. And so, you know, we usually start with breaking denial, which, again, can be really difficult, because if women feel like, okay, well, I'm not a sex addict, because that has a negative connotation, but yet I struggle in relationship, and I struggle in all relationships, and I can never be without a boyfriend, and I always give them sex sooner than I probably should and feel guilty about that. You know, when you start looking at all of those behaviors, that really helps to break denial and then that processing that trauma. So looking at your past, your family of origin, how well you attach, how well you were taught to be in relationship, looking at all of those factors that contribute to really why we struggle with sexual addiction. Another one that's really big for women is that element of codependency. So codependency is that excessive reliance on somebody else. And so looking at, okay, do I over immerse myself into a relationship? Do I give more than the other person gives? Do I? You know, looking at all of those kind of things, that really is saying, okay, I'm codependent in this unhealthy way that I put too much into the relationship. And so really figuring out why I do that, and that's the big thing is really looking at, okay, why are we doing what we're doing, why am I here? What contributed? What trauma is in my past that I need to deal with? And then really it's deciding, okay, what does this look like going forward to me? What kind of goals and purpose can I now have after I'm done addressing these other issues that have kind of held me up over the years?

Well, one of those areas that we hold in common as men and women, and hopefully it comes as no surprise to listeners of the podcast that we'd say how essential that small group or community is in recovery, because the nature of this struggle, sexual things are private and they're isolating. And if we just try to recover alone by reading a good book, I mean, there's tons of great resources and really good information that can help us maybe look at our trauma, look at why I'm doing what I'm doing. But if I don't do that in the context of relationship with other people, the shame and isolation are probably going to continue taking me back to that behavior. And so for men or women, God not only made us sexual, God made all of us to need one another. So for women listening, you know, find others that are safe that you can go on this journey with, because as you share your stories together, the healing really can be multiplied. So on that note, let's talk a little bit about resources. Heather, what. What kind of resources are out there through Pure Desire or others that you would recommend to help women start into this journey?

So Pure Desire, we offer several resources for women. Eight Pillars to Freedom is. Is one of our resources that's a group resource, and it helps women who are struggling with love and sex addiction and helps them in that group, in a community to find healing together. Behind the Mask is also a resource that looks at younger women, how teenagers, adolescent women that they struggle, and what does, you know, sexual health look like for them? We have a couple other resources. Stories for Women is a book study. So, again, this is a great resource if there are women that you know who don't know how they struggle, but yet they all feel like, okay, we need something, but we're not sure what we need. Stories for Women is a great resource because it doesn't really just draw you out on the. On you know what you're going through, but it gives you these other women's stories and, and asks you, okay, what do you identify with her story? Or how do you see yourself in her story? Which can be really helpful for women when it comes to just identifying some of their past pain.

So if you're listening to this this may be the first time that many of you have heard this, but we are releasing a new resource next month. In April, we will be releasing a book, a group resource, called Managing Love, Sex and Relationships. And this is specifically for a female addict or a woman struggling with love, sex, porn addiction, codependency. So it is a brand new resource we're super excited about. We're not gonna talk about it right now. We're just gonna leave this as a very, very subtle and intriguing plug and tell you to continue tuning in. Cause we will be talking about it very soon.

Yeah, we're excited. And I just wanted to vouch for the stories for women because I think that's such a great starting point. Like you were saying, Heather, if someone's just like, I, I don't know if this is me, but they know inside something just feels off. The ability to read someone else's story and just start to relate and go, oh, it's a lot easier than maybe a book that feels teachy or preachy where you feeling like you're being talked to or told to do something or a testimony is like, here's my story. So for anyone listening that's just wondering, is there stuff going on here? For me, I'd start there because you can let 20 other women tell you their story. And by the end I think you'll have a real clear picture of how you can relate and what some next steps might look like.

So as we've talked to lots, tons and tons of women across the country, whether they're in groups or they've come to our events, or we've just been in personal contact with them, we see that sometimes a woman who's a betrayed spouse can view women really as that person, as the enemy, as that person who they view them as the person their husband acted out with or the type of person, woman that he was looking at with pornography. So if a woman is listening to this, who doesn't struggle, doesn't have a porn, sex, love addiction, codependency is intact and all that. How would you encourage them to view or treat a woman who does struggle and does come forward? And what about a woman who hasn't been betrayed? How do we relate? How do we be in relationship with women who struggle with this?

Yeah, that's a great question. It's so easy for us to, to judge another's behavior out of a place of woundedness, out of our own, out of our own brokenness, instead of really from a place of grace. And I think that that's the most important thing to remember among women is that we all struggle. We all struggle with something. Right. And that when we stand before the Lord, we stand on the same line. And so I think that it is so encouraging for women to just recognize that my brokenness might look different than your brokenness, but I can still extend grace to you and really be a place or a source of healing for you. And another thing to keep in mind is that we don't ever know what has happened to somebody that has brought them to the place they're at. We just don't know. We never have enough information. And so the more that we can just love on people and love on them where they are, exactly where they're at. And then I think that you find that it's a lot easier to build relationship and build community when we don't get kind of hung up on some of those other things.

Yeah, yeah. I think having compassion for someone is so important. And when we just look at their behavior, we tend to judge. But when we know their story, we tend to have connection and a sense of empathy. And, you know, the other thing I would just put out there is the woman who's coming forward able to admit her struggle and is looking for help and community is probably not the problem. I mean, that'd be a good thing. If all women were doing that, there would be much less danger. It's women that are in hiding that aren't addressing their problem. So if you're a woman who has been betrayed and your husband has been with other women and now women are coming forward asking for help, see them as part of the solution, not part of the problem.

That's good.

And champion that and celebrate that. Because if more women were doing that, we wouldn't have the amount of infidelity, we wouldn't have the amount of affairs and all that going on. So if you can see the positive side of it, maybe that would help you be supportive of women that are taking these steps, because that takes a lot of courage. And so any way you can support and encourage them is a great thing.

I think another thing too, and it's off that idea of we all struggle is being honest about what you do struggle with. Maybe it isn't porn or sex or love addiction, but maybe it's food or maybe it's numbing out on your phone, or maybe it's anger or it could be an array of things. Right? We all have issues, but being honest and open about that and creating that culture, and that's what you guys really are touching on is trying to create that culture of grace where people can come in and can be who they are, and it's okay to not be okay, but it's also the point of getting into this community is that you're moving forward and that you're growing. And so being open and honest, even if you don't struggle in this area, still being a safe person that says, hey, this is what I struggle with, and this is what's going on in my life too.

Well, I know in their book Mended Tiffany, one of the authors, writes about that when they came and shared their story at church, and in that story, she was the one who'd had an affair. She said it wasn't the people she talked to that were the issue. It was all the people she didn't hear from and that she felt maybe judged by or was concerned that their silence was because they didn't feel safe reaching out to her. And so that might be some encouragement. If you're listening and this isn't your area of struggle, you've not been betrayed, but you're wondering how to help and support others. If you hear a woman sharing her story or someone comes out asking for help to at least just reach out and say, I support you and I love you and we're friends. And your communication can be a huge encouragement because sometimes in silence, we read into that silence and think, oh, they don't like me anymore, or they don't think I'm a safe person. So one thing we can all do is just reach out and say, wow, thanks for your courage. I'm proud of you and I'm with you in this journey.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, this is really good stuff. I hope that for women listening, if this is an area for them, it's been a huge encouragement. I hope for men listening, it really helps them, you know, consider the other side of this. If, you know, if you're a man who's been addicted, you've maybe been just obsessed with your own problem and healing and journey. And it's. There's going to come a time where, as you're finding some stability and health, to begin to look around and say, well, how can my story encourage others? So even for the men listening, they might have a hand in encouraging women and supporting them, starting groups and championing that effort. So it's. It's really something all of us can get behind. And we want to wrap up today like we do so many of our episodes. Just asking Heather, what's final encouragement that you would like to Give to a woman who's battling any kind of porn, sex or love addiction.

So I would encourage you to be brave, to recognize that you're not the only one struggling, but that you might be kind of a front runner in either in your church or in your community or, you know, even in your home to bring this issue to light and find somebody like Nick had mentioned, find that one person, one trusted person, that you can tell your story, that you can tell how you're struggling. And if you don't think that you can find that person, or maybe you have that person, but you still want to reach out to us, call us at Pure Desire, because this is what we do. We love to talk to you. We love to, you know, help you to get into group if that's what you need, help you to find counseling if that's what you need. And we love that because again, it really is about finding healing and community that is going to make the difference.

And I mean, that was, that's mine. It's just, you're not alone. Like, don't let shame corner you. Don't let it corner you into not moving, into not pursuing health, into not trying to figure out what is going on underneath, because it's so sometimes shame seems huge, seems like this big bear that just puts you in the corner. And it's not you can combat it, but it's through community and it's through reaching out. And really that first step is always humility, admitting that I need help and then taking that courageous step, that second step, to saying, okay, I need to reach out and ask someone for help.

As we wrap up, I think of an old Catholic prayer that says, be grateful for your sins, for they are carriers of grace. And what that means to me is our sins really can be windows into legitimate needs God has put into our hearts and lives. As a good friend of ours, Ben Bennett says, we're trying to meet a legitimate need in an illegitimate way. And so if you're battling sex, porn, love addiction, to look underneath that and say, I have a legitimate need here. And if you can allow your sins to use that Catholic prayer to take you into what that legitimate need is for connection, for, for friendship, for belonging, for acceptance, whatever that ache is. And if you'll really begin to process that, how can I find connection in a legitimate way? How can I find belonging in a God given way? That's really what healing is all about. It's not just avoiding the sin, but really leaning into what is it that I'm lacking and how can I reach out to God and others to meet that need in my life.

That's so good.

So the more that we talk about addiction as a general topic and as a people problem and something that affects everybody, the better and more healthier culture in the church will be. The ability to communicate clearly, openly about these topics works directly against that shame that builds up. And just know that if you're not talking about this, you are part of what builds shame up. So just understand that even being passive can be working against you in this. So understanding this topic is super important for both men and women. If you're a woman struggling with sexual integrity and you want help, visit PureDesire.org women join a group. Find a community in your area that you can get plugged into. And if we can get you, if we can get into a group of people who are all working together to get sexually healthy, lots of great growth can happen. All of us in this room right now can attest to that. Heather, you're awesome. Thanks so much for just sharing your perspective and expertise.

Yeah, thanks for having me here.

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