094 - FAQ #8

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Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor. And we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here with my co host as always, Nick Stumbo.

It all started with a mouse. Okay, can you guys I just identify the quote?

No. I am so confused right now.

Well, our Walt Disney fans out there will know that that is a famous Walt Disney quote about Disneyland and the whole Disney empire, which I love it because of the idea that very, very small things and ideas over time can become, you know, world changing things. And I think in some ways that's what we're all about here at Pure Desire. A small idea is influencing lives and that's exciting.

I actually over the weekend watched Saving Mr. Banks, which is.

There you go. It's probably in that movie.

It probably is. But I just. Man, I really did not like Pamela, the author of why am I Drawing a Blank right Now? It is Mary Poppins. So that's what the whole movie's about. And I'm dropping the ball there. I really didn't. She did such a great job. That actress did great movie. Okay. No one seems to care, so we're just gonna keep moving forward, moving along. One of our recurring guests, Ashley Jamison, is with us. Stop talking while I intro you. She is one of our international group coordinators, is a member of our speaking team. They're. Thanks for hanging with us, Ash.

Hi, I'm here again. I'm happy to be here.

Such a boring intro. You gotta do some work. Today's episode is Frequently Asked Questions or FAQ number eight. These episodes are where we will dive into all different types of questions. We get tons of great questions all the time and a lot of these today are actually sent in by you listeners. So this is great. These episodes are really an attempt to catch really a chunk of these questions at a time. So we hope that these episodes can answer your questions. And if you have questions, make sure to send them into us. We will tell you how to do that at the end of this episode. So we're gonna jump in right now. The first question was sent by Aaron T. And the question that he had was, I'm a member of a seven pillars group, and we've been talking in our group about sexual or wet dreams. These dreams seem to happen regardless of how I'm doing in recovery. If I'm actively pursuing my wife, if I'm making good choices on what I'm looking at. Is this something I should disclose to my wife when it happens, or if it is something I should talk about with the group first to figure out where it came from?

Well, no beating around the bush here. We're just diving right into the good stuff. But, no, I'm really glad we're talking about this, because I think dreams are a bigger part of people's journey than usually we talk about, and it's hard to know what to say about them. So the first things I want to say about our dreams in general when we're in recovery is I find that this tends to be a real significant spiritual battlefield. I think the enemy really wants to use dreams either to trigger us or to shame us, or to get us off track or focusing on the wrong things. And I believe we need to claim that. That when we wake up to not just think, oh, what's wrong with me? I'm a terrible person. How could I think about those? To recognize knowing where exactly your dreams came from is very, very hard to do. And so just give it to Christ and say, lord, you are lord of my life and my thinking, and I'm not defined by my dreams. So I would start there. When it comes to sharing with our spouse, I think it's unproductive to share the details. I mean, again, to suggest that you were in control of those details or you wanted to have happen what happened is just not realistic or fair. But I do think it would be helpful to share with our spouse, hey, I had a rough dream. And to share what emotion or feeling it's creating, because for them to be aware that it made me feel really, really shameful, or I'm feeling really triggered, or I'm feeling really unworthy, or I'm feeling really whatever that. Because that's something you can talk about. And that's where a spouse. And some of this, too, you need to be aware of where your marriage is at. If you're at the very beginning of recovery, and they're very raw and emotional. It may not be helpful to share anything with them. But you do need to share with someone. You need to reach out, even that morning, to at least a group member to say, here's kind of the overall nature of the dream, and here's what it left me feeling. And I just. I want, you know, prayer for that, or I want you to know, here's how I'm giving it to Christ. Because that's where you really want to focus, is not staying in that place of shame or being triggered. Because that's the real danger that dreams can have that lingering effect in the rest of our day. So to just get it out there and talk to a group member or spouse, I do believe it's helpful. But typically the details are. They're pretty chaotic and crazy. And so don't spend too much time dwelling on them. You know, just let them go. But the emotion is what you need to deal with.

Yeah. And to really know what your motivation is behind telling your spouse what you know, whatever it is that you want to share. Because I know that when John and I first started our recovery, I would tell him dreams when I would have dreams of, like, cheating on him to get him back, you know, for hurting me. And I would do it just to make him jealous or just to, you know, let him know that, hey, like, I thought about this even though it's in my sleep. And so that wasn't really a healthy reason to be sharing those things with him. So, yeah, that's. That's a tough one.

And I think it's important that you need to tell your group. If you're in group, you need to tell somebody. And Nick, you mentioned that. But I think that whenever it happens, don't ever just keep it to yourself. I don't think that that is ever helpful because there's so much shame, like, we're talking about wrapped up into this. So always make sure that someone else is included in that.

Well, I think I just heard the other day that we forget most of our dreams within the first few minutes of waking up. And so if it was a negative dream, there is something to be said for. Just try not to dwell on it because a lot of those details will just kind of disappear with the night's sleep you had. So don't focus on those details because then you actually remember them too much.

Well, and it's like, don't assume that it's your depravity that you, like, went to bed thinking, oh, I can't wait to fantasize about this when I go to sleep. When you're in recovery, that's like, the last thing that you want, right? And so just don't. Don't overthink it, and don't make it sound like, really I do this, I talk myself into thinking, man, I'm just so depraved and so sexually unhealthy, and that's why it happens. But that's not it. So really just release that shame.

Yeah. Good stuff, you guys. Okay, second question comes from Joshua O. And he says this. I woke up the other day planning on going to work, only to realize that I had come down with a stomach sickness. The plan for that day was to work until six, do my nightly routine of eating, housework, studying, and going to bed. But instead, I stayed in bed all day, isolated from everyone. So what are some tips that you guys would give to be battle ready for such abrupt circumstances?

So this is new. I mean, we don't have one at pure desire, but I would suggest putting together, like, a sick day plan. You know, you've got an escape plan, you've got a recovery action plan. When you have a sick day, it really is one of those things where even if you have some things, you know that you want to accomplish, being sick really tends to just damper all of that. But I think that just this is what comes to mind for me in a sick day plan is like, include who you call and when. Because if you are isolated, a great way to do it is to make phone calls to break out of that. Include times in that day in that plan where you can veg, you can watch Netflix, you can play video games, you can browse on your phone. But be specific about those things, like, what can I watch? Because if you know that you're sick, I mean, you know, I'm just thinking about those memes that you see going around about when a husband is sick. Like, the world is at an end, you know, But a mom gets sick, right? It's the man flu. Actually, Ashley, you're one of the first people that talked to me about it. But I know for me as a guy, that if I'm feeling that way, I need to really understand where my headspace is and what I'm gonna need. Because if I know that all my defenses are down when I'm sick, I probably shouldn't be watching anything that has a lot of, like, crude humor or has any sexual, you know, innuendos or anything like that in it because if I do, my defenses are down just naturally because I'm sick. Like, my body's literally working really hard to make myself healthy again. And so if you put together some sort of plan like that, I think it would be superit's gonna feel weird to do that. Like, I have a sick day plan to stay sober, but I think it's gonna be pretty helpful.

Yeah. John was sick this week, and he was totally battling that. Like, he's not at work, he's not being productive. And I know even for me with my autoimmune disease, when it flares up and I start to feel just really depressed, sometimes I recognize, okay, my autoimmune immune disease is flared up and I physically don't feel well. I think a lot of the stuff I'm struggling with mentally is really just because my body is so tired and worn out. And to give yourself that grace of like, what can I do right now? Can I plug in some worship music? Or can I just, you know, edit my plan a little bit to where I can actually do that even if I'm not feeling well?

Yeah.

I think what I would say is that while your sickness may have been unexpected, encountering something unexpected should be expected. That sooner or later we are all going to encounter unexpected alone time, unexpected sickness, unexpected access to the Internet that we didn't anticipate, unexpected triggering material. And to me, what comes to mind is that's why we have boundaries and guardrails, because they are there for those unexpected times that we know how to stay in health. So if you were at home all day unexpectedly feeling sick, hopefully your boundaries, like how you're going to use the computer or your phone or the Internet or the tv, they are in place and you follow them no matter what. And those commitments are what hold us through thick and thin. And so I would encourage anyone really look at your boundaries, take out your three circles tool and ask, do I have a plan in place that will work when the unexpected happens? Because the unexpected will happen. And when it does, it's those guardrails that keep us in a healthy place.

Totally.

Yeah. Yeah. Our next question is from David F. And he asks what are some ideas to bring the end of your peer desire group to an inspirational conclusion?

That's a great question. I have a couple of ideas on it. The first one might seem odd, but I would actually say this. I don't want to celebrate too much because there's actually a temptation to be like, we did it. We're finished.

I graduated.

It's Done, it's over. Kind of this idea that like purity and integrity is a once experience thing and now I move on and I'm good for life. So you want to be careful not to celebrate someone's completion so much that they feel like, oh, now I'm done, I don't have to worry about this anymore. But on the other hand, it is significant to say you've completed a journey, you've invested, you've made it to this stage. And even though we're looking at what's next, do you need to go through group again? Are you going to help lead? Are you going to be a co leader? How could you use your story to help others? I mean, that's part of concluding well is looking at what's next. So make sure you take time for that. But some things that we have done, we've taken one of our last meetings just to share stories, to go around and say, what's God done in your life these last nine months or year, however long it's been, what stands out to you as the best stuff you've learned? Other groups will take a night and just go out for pizza or for dinner and just, we don't even, you know, it's not a night to do a lesson, it's just a night to celebrate. We did this together and it's exciting. And then during that time doing some conversation about, hey, what's next if there's a new group starting, inviting guys to be a part of it or gals. And then another final thing I'd say is there are, you know, commemorative coins that Pure Desire has. There's other little, you know, knick knacks as a group leader you could go out and buy just to give someone a memento or a token of like, hey, this is from your first group that we did this together. And that can be meaningful for a lot of people to sit on their desk or keep in their car or somewhere. They see it often be like, I've got those people in my life that care about me, that know me and they're still there to support me. Even if we go on to different groups, some kind of momento or token can be a meaningful gesture. So those are just a couple of things that I've seen be useful, you.

Know, off of that idea though of sharing testimonies. The thing that I that came to mind for me was the idea of identifying those mile markers in our recovery because I think that the further we go, we tend to maybe not forget the brokenness, but forget the Progress that we've made. I can think back to how, at the depth of my addiction, what it was like, but really those steps. I think that last night in group, I had a group member tell me this was a cool lesson because it helped me look back and see where I've come from. And I think that in recovery, we're just so focused on moving forward, moving forward, moving forward, that I think that we forget to sometimes look back. And so the testimonies can really be. That can be something where you look back and, man, look at what God has done in my life. Look at the recovery I've had. So that's one way, and then the other way I would, and this is just a light suggestion is, you know, if you've got people who came in, definitely had a lot of brokenness, are experiencing healing to talk to them or inspire them to then give that healing on to other people, really encouraging them that now you are a change agent in this area, you have the tools necessary, and now you can help other people get healthy. And so kind of that, if you will, that handing off the baton or the torch to them and saying, look, now you can go start a group, and now you can help other people get healthy. I think that that can be pretty inspiring way to end a group. Okay, so moving on. Moving on to the next question. This one was sent in by Bobby C. How do we bring new members into our group? So for Bobby, some of the guys in his group are finally getting more comfortable in sharing and are reluctant to let new people in. So how do they bring in new members?

My first suggestion would be to close the group as soon as you can and to leave it closed for a lot of people who are finally opening up. And especially because Bobbi says that some of the guys are final starting to become comfortable, and they're reluctant to let new people in. You can see that there's some fear and some anxiety about adding new people. And anytime you add somebody new, even if it's a great experience, it disrupts the group. It disrupts what's already going on. And so if you can start a new Conquer series to kind of hold guys who need a group and there's not one available or do something else, that would be the better idea. It's not that it's never worked. There has been plenty of groups where they've added somebody in and it ended up working great. But what we've seen in the bigger picture is that if you can have a group of four to six people, it's A safe, stable, predictable environment week after week for people. It really allows them just the freedom and security to open up and process the way they need to.

I think it's important to remember that every group will be different. I've led groups where we've added people right towards the end. But that's because the group was very comfortable and they heard about someone that was in need. You know, they'd just gotten caught in an affair and it was like they. There weren't really any other group options. And it's like, hey, if we can help him and he's okay, that we're all a lot more connected than he will be. Have him jump in. And then I've had other groups where it's like it just, it would feel too disruptive. And so I typically, as the leader, make it a group conversation. And if anyone feels a little uncomfortable with it or if I have a read that it's just not good timing, then we do look at some of those other options. But I think there is for many listeners probably just that reality that if there aren't any other options but someone needs help now, there's value striking while the iron's hot and getting them engaged in healing. But you definitely, as Ashley's saying, you don't want to do it at the expense of the rest of the group. You want the group to be okay with it and aware of the potential dangers that come with adding a member late in the game. And the other thing I would say to online groups, I think you do have to be more selective because if you're an in person group, there's a little more opportunity to get to know someone, to build trust, to develop that relationship where just the nature of online, it takes more time to really gel. And so I tend to be a little slower to have anyone join the group late at that point.

Yeah, that's good.

Okay, so question number five here. Why doesn't pure desire offer groups for unwanted same sex attraction? We don't have any groups around that theme. Why not?

Well, if it's unwanted same sex attraction, then really people can do the groups that we offer, if they're, if they're going in there for any reason about their sexuality that's unwanted and they want to change. And actually, you know, when we think same sex attraction, we think automatically it's a, you know, two guys or two women living this homosexual life where there's several people in our groups who, who are married, who have kids, who had same sex experience, maybe curiosity with other kids when they were younger, maybe it was a trauma, maybe they struggle with some attraction. So we see that more often than you know, than people know, that this is a real issue with our sexuality. And so if it's unwanted and you're wanting to address it the same as you would wanting to stop masturbation or wanting to stop fantasy, then be part of group and work through the process the same way.

Yeah. And I think it's important to know that just everybody, whether you struggle with addiction or not, everyone has some sexual brokenness in their story, in their life where they need to grow and they need to heal. And so not making it into these different categories, we're just the one category is sexual brokenness and how we get healthy from that.

I think what we try to recognize is that same sex attraction isn't somehow a different or unrelated issue. That when we look at the trauma that leads to addiction, when we look at family of origin issues, we look at how our sexuality can be shaped over a lifetime, we see same sex attraction as part of that. So we don't want to treat it like a different or worse or unique challenge. We have those people integrate into group to see that your roots, the lies you're listening to where this came from are similar. And for you, maybe it led to same sex for someone else, it led to other behaviors that they're maybe feeling shameful of. But when we hear those roots are common, it's that connectedness and belonging that I think really helps shape and change lives.

Yeah. And I would encourage too, just for people to be really honest about it, because I know that when I opened up about sexual experiences with other girls when I was younger, and it wasn't necessarily the shame at that age, at 5 or 6, it was the shame that I carried after those experiences as kids into my adulthood. And it took me several years to finally be open about that in group. And what I noticed was there were several women in every group I lead going forward, you know, going forward from that point that had similar experiences, but nobody wants to talk about it. And so if we're holding that shame or, you know, that secret, then it's still going to hinder us totally. Okay, Nick, Elizabeth sent this question in on our website chat. How do you go about setting up a 30, 60 or 90 day sexual sobriety plan in your marriage? And what is the best way to do that?

Well, one comment on that. I wonder if that 30, 60, 90 day plan comes from some other recovery models because we don't really have those timeframes like that. Partly because we feel like it's hard to put a timeframe on healing or the pace of recovery. But what I hear this person asking is like, what are some of the handholds, the expectations of what to do, what to focus on and how many days should we kind of focus on those things? So I would, I would definitely recommend, you know, getting input from a counselor, if you can, getting input from other couples that have walked this journey to kind of say, here's what you need to focus on early the first month, the second month and so forth. Also, if you're looking at should we be abstaining from sex for a time to just make those changes, I'd really recommend listening to our podcast on sex during recovery that we did with Bob and Rebecca Vandermeer because they offer some great thoughts about is it necessary to have a time of abstaining from sex even in the marriage so that health comes? And then I would just, I would look at, you know, leaning into the group experience and trusting the process because we might be in a hurry, like, okay, by day 60, this will happen, by day 90, this should happen. And instead just trust the process and what you're being led through and whatever lesson you're on, you know, make that your focus. And I think you'll see things really begin to change. Maybe not necessarily on the timeline you expect, but in a way that really is going to create lasting change.

Yeah. And also if you do go into something like that, that it's not just, okay, we're going to go 30 or 90 days without sex and then we'll be better, but that you have to be really intentional. What is your goal of abstaining? What is that going to look like? Working toward reestablishing healthy sex, sex during that non sex period? Where is it going to be? Okay, we're going to make sure we have emotional connection every day. We're going to maybe start with hand holding or snuggling or, you know, there has to be some kind of plan in process, not just simply we're going to go without and then it's going to be fixed when we come back together.

Right. You're retraining almost yourselves. You are re centering as a couple.

You're dating again.

Yeah.

I just want to reiterate though, again, to be careful not to create expectations of by such and such day, this will be better or this will be fixed. Because that I've seen it set people up for disappointment where they're like, oh, I thought by now we'd have this figured out or we'd be further along here. And a lot of this is similar to a process of grief where there's no timeline for grief. There's no timeline for emotional and relational recovery. That some parts for you might take longer and some parts for you as a couple might go much quicker and just be okay with whatever pace it's going at. If you're leaning in and you're doing the work, let the process take however long it takes. Which leads into the next question for couples. What are some resources that we have or suggest for married couples to go through?

I'll answer first because I'm the marriage expert in this room. Listener. Do you notice how they both laughed when I said that he's the baby, been married for almost four years. But to answer the actual question, resources that we have, there's connected, which is really building a bridge to intimacy with your spouse. You both go through that. You have your own workbook and then meet once a week and go through that. And that's really, really helpful. Me and my wife fight at the end of each chapter that we've done, but in a good way. It is very restorative in that there's mended. One of our newest books that was just out by Rick and Tiffany Bowman about how their relationship fractured and how they found their way back. Counseling is another resource for me. I think that whether it's counseling through pure desire with sexual issues or just counseling in general, I think that that's a great. Then we have safe the idea of creating a culture of grace around you. And then also digital natives, the idea of focusing on your kids, I think that can be a really uniting thing when you're focusing on the health of your family together. So we'll have all those in the show notes. But those are things that come to mind. Do you guys have any others that you would suggest?

Well, I would suggest. And these may be just really simple or like no brainer, but if you're not using your faster scale together as a couple just for weekly communication, that is a great one. And then like Nick mentioned about the podcast, we have several podcast episodes that would be great to listen to as couples.

Yeah, I think any ways you can find just to engage together because it is easy to kind of just hunker down. I got to focus on me and there's wisdom to that. But at the same time, when healing happens together, it's. It's going to be better. And so as a spouse, just look at what are things that my spouse would Be open to doing with me. And if it's reading a book, do that. If it's going to a conference, do that. If it's counseling, go for it. So you kind of take some cues from them, but just to focus on what could we do together, because the more you can communicate and come together around this topic, the better it'll be for your marriage.

All right, we're gonna move on to the next question. This one is, what do you do if you have a group member that has a weird work schedule and can't make every group meeting? What do we do there?

That's a tough one. And it depends what they mean by weird work schedule. So is the weird work schedule they're gonna miss every other group, or is it a weird work schedule like I have where I might be traveling one week and miss one every couple months? And so I think in that case, if it's just really far and few between, but they may have to miss one, then it's probably okay that they keep up on the work, keep up on the calls. But if it's like a consistent pattern where they're going to miss two groups out of each month, that I would suggest they wait to find a group that fits their schedule where they have a consistent time off, or they may be the person that ends up starting a group that works around their schedule.

I think you want to talk to a person and find out, is it a legitimate thing, because this is an area you want to say this needs to be a priority. So could you look into maybe taking time off at the end of a day so that you can make the group? Could you shift your schedule for this season? I do think there are people that, though they're just in a job that that's the reality of. I mean, we lived in a mill kind of city where people worked very strange rotating shift jobs. And I don't think you need to tell someone you either got to quit your job or do the group, because that's basically what they would have had to do. And so we would have conversations to say, hey, you need to keep up with the group by doing your homework every week and making your phone calls. And I'd be very honest to say if you do that, you'll stay connected. But if you kind of slough off on your homework, you stop making phone calls, you're not going to feel engaged with this group. So in a healthy way, try to put responsibility on them. To just underscore, this is a high commitment group, and we expect every week and if you can't make every week, you've really got to engage with the other tools. And I've had people take that challenge and say I need it, I'll do it and see them do well. And then I've had other people say they will, but then they just kind of flaked out and halfway through they weren't in the group anymore.

Yeah, I have a group member. I've had a group member that was in group that had a really weird work schedule and just would call, would always make sure that send out the commitment to change and the double bind of that week, you know, the group check in, the weekly check ins and then also doing really processing through, even through phone calls if they didn't make that group, processing through the actual material on the phone call as well and still reaching out. So I think it can be done. Obviously it's not ideal, but at the same time you don't want to hinder someone if they, they don't choose to have a weird work schedule. You don't want to over, over the top hinder that person.

Yeah, and there's always too like if somebody travels out of town and that's why they can't be there, but maybe they're able to Google like do a Google hangout into the group. That, that has worked too for groups.

It's a great idea.

Okay, number nine, we will all. Will we always have to be in group or will there be a time when we don't need to be in a recovery group?

Well, I think the better question might be will we always need community and authenticity and accountability? And the answer to that is yes. But what I would follow up to say then is if you get to a place where you have significant community in your life, you have people that you're very authentic with that are able to ask you hard questions, and if you have people that you're able to be accountable to and that you're continuing to grow, you won't need a group. And so there are many people that after a season of life, after a year or two or longer, determine my engagement in community and authenticity is happening in other ways. There's enough health in my life that I don't need to be in a recovery group. But for other people, if we're continuing to struggle with relapse, if there's patterns that they're just really hanging on and they're not breaking, or we look around our life and realize this right now is the only place I've got this kind of community and Openness, then you need to stick with it because to just go from this weekly community and authenticity to nothing would be very dangerous for you, even if you're in a healthy place. So that's what I would recommend is to really ask yourself the question of where am I at my sobriety and do I have authenticity and community built in, in other places? And as you answer those questions, I think that'll help. You know, if you need to be in group, ongoing, ask your spouse if.

You should still be in group.

Oh, that's a great, great point. Yes.

Yeah, for me, I. My pattern, I've noticed is that I am in group and then I'm tired by the time I'm done leading a group and I'm like, oh, I'm not leading any more groups. And then about six months later I'm like, you know, I feel like I should be in group again. And so I kind of have this six month window of I think I can just handle it on my own. But I really need that weekly accountability. And then I need big breaks in between it.

Yeah, I love these episodes because we're able to cover so many different things. We're able, we covered the topics, I.

Know this great dreams to marriage and everything in between.

And listen, like if you're, if you're a listener and you want to get your questions in, we would prefer to have more of these episodes. We prefer to be answering the questions you have and I think that we produce pretty good content. But we really want to answer the questions and meet you guys where you are at. So if you desire to send in those questions, there's a couple ways you can do that. You can email your questions to infopuredesire.org using the subject line PD Podcast. And then you can also post your question on social media if you are brave that way with the hashtag hashtag pdfaq so you can send those in. We get those on the next episode. That would be. That'd be awesome. So again, guys, great episode. Thanks, Nick. Thanks. Actually appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for the questions, everyone.

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Sam.