097 - Promoting Pure Desire Groups At Your Church

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. The Masters, PGA Championship, Ryder cup, and Pure Desire Golf. What do all those have in common? One of them is launching their first ever tournament this year, June 17, at the prestigious Persimmon Country Club in Gresham, Oregon. Pure Desire is hosting their first annual Pure Desire Golf tournament. All proceeds go to advancing the message of hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction and betrayal. Come support Pure Desire and play the best round of golf of your life. It's the perfect combo. To register and to sign up, visit PureDesire.org golf we'll see you guys there. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo. Ricola, did you just kind of cough as we started?

I did. I was choking, and then I realized you had started, and so I had to try to withhold it.

Another reason to have Ricola.

It is. Yeah. And when you got four kids, like, we just have Ricola in the jar with candy. Like, you have a candy, have a Ricola. Just whatever you need.

Kind of like a cookie jar. Yeah, Ricola jar.

Yeah, absolutely. So, as you can hear, we have the big guy with us, Rich Moore. Rich is our international group coordinator for men's groups. I feel like it's a really long title, but basically you just help people get groups started and you answer lots of phones, right? Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. So he does all things groups. Rich, welcome, man. Thanks.

Glad to be here.

Cool.

We have Rich with us today to.

Talk about something, and this is actually something that I've been getting a lot of questions. We get a lot of questions, actually, about this, just in general, is how to promote your Pure Desire groups at your church. So this is something that a lot of churches want to do well and want to do effectively. And so we're going to give you, really, some tips on how to promote recovery groups for sexual health, sexual addiction. Sounds.

It sounds good.

All right.

Okay. We're jumping in thinking about my answer to the first question. So I kind of lost track there. You were talking, and I was getting ready for my part. Full disclosure on this Pure Desire podcast.

You got the first question.

That's why you're looking at me. Okay. Yeah, sorry. Just because my name's in bold doesn't mean I know what it means. So let's start with this one. Once a church decides to run Pure desire groups. What are the best ways that we have found or heard to announce these groups and this ministry to people in the congregation?

Great question. Probably the number one question when I'm talking to a church, the pastor, group's pastor, whoever that is, like, how in the heck do we get this started right? So I just walk them through really some basic steps. One, we talk about what it is, what the ministry is in the church, what it looks like. And I really talk them through about changing, setting the culture of the church. And then, you know, because if you change the culture of the church, then you change the culture of the people in the church and then it impacts the community. But to back up with that, really, they have to set the tone from the pulpit. And that's where changing that culture begins. You have to create that space where it's safe that this church is actually talking about this. And we're finding more and more churches are indeed starting the process of talking about this subject that so many times they haven't.

Well, and if you don't have that, maybe from the front or don't have that as a part of your culture and you're still trying to promote these in your church, one of the things I've seen is really putting the positive spin on it. So don't call them sexual addiction groups because that's the quickest way to get no one to come.

That's right.

But if you are talking about sexual integrity or sexual purity or sexual health or really what I would do is try to contextualize the language to how your church talks about it. And so if you use different terminology, then just use that. But really what you're doing in the marketing realm, it's called an aspirational identity. That's what you're doing. You're showing someone what they could have, what they do want to be.

And.

And so in the way that you just emphasize it or describe it, I always make sure that it's in the positive light.

Yeah, that's fancy aspirational identity. Talk about using big words.

I am the marketing guy, so I feel like it's my job to know these things.

He's got a dictionary under his.

Just to piggyback off that. That's what I was thinking as well. I think a mistake that churches make. And we're well intentioned. We don't mean to do this, but the language is all about you. You who struggle, you who have this problem, you who are battling something. And that language can be very isolating and shameful even because Keep in mind that the person you're referring to when you say you is an individual that's probably been battling these secret things for a while, is feeling some shame about it. And they don't want to be exposed and they don't want to feel like they're going to be put off in a corner for the special group for people who are really messed up.

Right.

And we might not ever, ever say it that way, but that's the way it gets interpreted. Oh, I don't want to be known as being a part of those people. So. So changing the conversation, changing the pronouns we use to we and to us to say we are sexual beings. All of us have encountered fallenness in our sexuality. Everyone here has encountered some kind of sexual brokenness, whether stuff done to them or things they've done. So we together want to work towards sexual integrity and wholeness. And here's how we are going to do that. We're going to start these groups. So now it's not you people who struggle, it's us. It's we together. And I think another thing that along with that then can be powerful is just to make sure to connect pure desire groups and these groups for integrity to the discipleship process. Because I think that's another thing churches can do. It's like, well, here's what a disciple is. They learn to pray and worship and read their Bible and attend church. Oh, a sexual issue. Well, that's over here. That's like a different thing. We're really. We are, as I just said, we're all sexual beings. And that's a part of what it means to be a human being. To be male and female is a sexual identity. And so we need maturity there just as much as we need maturity in our relationships, maturity in our thinking, maturity in our following of Christ. So if we can fold that in to just say, here's how we mature sexually, here's how we mature emotionally, and it's all part of becoming more like Christ. Well, now this does again feel like, well, this is something for everyone because we all want to mature. We all want to become more like Christ. And being transformed in my sexuality is a part of that. We now it doesn't feel like this weird plan B that I just got shipped off to, that this is part of my growth and my maturing.

Yeah. So we kind of touched on it though, at the beginning here that there are maybe some churches that don't really discuss sex from the front. I mean, I feel like recently I just heard a conversation I Was having with my wife about some friends who they always are when they are going to talk about sex from the pulpit. They always make sure kids are out of the room, that they're really. So there's like, almost like this cloak over it a little bit. So what if a church never does discuss sex or seems super resistant to really the idea of mentioning it from front or at all in a church context. How can a church promote these types of groups when that's the culture they're running up against?

Yeah, it's such a great question. I think it's a huge problem churches are facing because for so many of us, sex has been the taboo topic. I mean, you and I, Trevor, were just at a church where they were announcing the conquer series, but the men running it were told, you can't use the word sex or pornography from the pulpit. And it's like their comeback was like, but sex is in the bible. Porneia is in the bible, but we can't say those words. And I think that's just symptomatic of where a lot of churches are at. So I might first just push back on that a little to say if you're in leadership at your church or you're at a church where you feel that we're like, yeah, we shouldn't be talking about those things. I'd say, why? Why do we feel that way? Why are we ashamed or embarrassed? Because culture is certainly not embarrassed to talk about it. I mean, everywhere we go, sex sells and sex is what we see. The pornography industry is certainly not shy in making their $14 billion by not only talking about, but portraying sex and pornography. So in the church, I think we need to develop a language where we say, sex is not the world's territory. Sex is God's territory. And so maybe that's the starting place for your church is, let's look at a God who created us sexual, a God who endorses our sexuality and then gave us the gift of sex within marriage as a blessing and a good thing, Rather than treating it like as soon as we talk about sex or anything sexual, we've left God's territory. So I think that's a good starting point, and some too, of how I would answer this question honestly depends on your role at the church. So if you're listening and you are a leader or you're the pastor, your role is huge. And I would encourage you if you're uncomfortable talking about sex, read some books, take some classes, listen more to this podcast, do whatever it takes for you to Feel educated and at least comfortable to say, hey, this month we want to talk about the realities of sex and what the Bible has to say about it. Because if you're not there, speed of the leader, speed of the team, you're not going to help your church get there. But. But for probably the majority of people listening, they're not the pastor or the leader and they might feel like I don't get to control what they're willing to share from up front. And I think it's similar though, that for you just whatever sphere you're in, become comfortable with the conversation of sexual things and of what does healing and wholeness look like in our sexuality? Because that's a huge thing that we talk about a lot, that we want to normalize the conversation, whether it's in our homes, in our small groups, in how we develop friendships, to be able to learn to talk openly about what does it mean to be a sexual being. And if we can normalize the conversation in our sphere, that will over time impact a church culture. So believe that even if you're not in leadership, there is bottom up kind of influence that you can have. So as you become comfortable addressing it, it can make a difference in your church.

Yeah. The only thing I would add to that is a great answer. I think it's just that initial conversation that the leader has with the pastor where you have somebody that is willing to lead, the pastor is willing to have the conversation, but just not sure. So again, those conversations that I have, and you said it, Nick, about. I really point them to the podcast, to the blogs, to our material, so they can just start to even figure out what the language is and then how they can walk through that process. Yeah, because they got to start somewhere. They know they have to start. They have no idea how to start. And the podcast and the tools we have are a great way to just begin to understand.

Yeah, I think, just briefly, I would say that starting at relationships makes sense because all this stuff is always played out in relationship or it always affects relationship. And so I think the church is pretty, pretty okay with. Like, relationships are a big deal. It's okay to talk about that from up front. The Bible talks about it a lot. But really start there. Like, what does it look like for a healthy relationship between a husband and a wife or between a boyfriend and girlfriend? And we know that sex is a problem culturally, inside of relationships, outside of marriage specifically. But I think that that could be a great end. Is just starting to really approach it from the relationship perspective or starting point. And then hoping that that then opens the door to conversations about sexual stuff.

Yeah. And I think it's okay, too, to be able to go to other churches and friends and leaders and say, what are you guys doing to help men and women who struggle in pornography or with sexual things? What has your church done to preach and teach about sexuality? What have you found is effective? What's helped open that door? Because if you're in a church context where that door has been shut for a long, long time, you might want to just go in here. If you know of a church that man, they're authentic. They address this regularly. Ask them, how did that become part of your culture? How did that become the norm there? And if you can learn from them, you should be able to integrate some of that in the context you're in.

Absolutely.

So in a lot of churches, though, around the country, sexual addiction or struggles of any kind are seen primarily as a man's issue. You. And statistically, more men do struggle, but not exclusively. So churches aren't always considering women who might struggle. So what are some ways that churches can help cast a wide net to help capture everyone who's struggling, both men and women?

Well, I think you kind of talked about it already, the idea of using us and we type of language, being inclusive. I think that if you do that, that will naturally cater to opening it up to any gender who struggles with this stuff. I don't think that if you say we as humans struggle with this, that that alienates any one demographic of people. But if all you're doing is basically using men's examples or examples of men who struggle or just using examples of women who are betrayed, then what you're doing is you're basically casting that net into only really small pools instead of really opening it up to the entire congregation. So I think that what you said, Nick, is right, that that inclusive language just naturally, if you're always there, is going to cater to a wider audience.

Yeah, I think a great. A great thing to add to that is, is during a. A series at the church where the pastor is talking about sexual purity or freedom. However they. They want to label their series is to incorporate a. A testimony, a husband, wife. So you have the husband and addict, or the wife is an addict. Either way, both are important. Both are important. So they can then now you can see that from the pulpit, you can see that. That, okay, this church is serious. We're gonna take this on. And what it does is it really creates that safe atmosphere where both parties feel like they're able to go get help. And then I think also too, it's important when in that series when they're talking about this is to let the women know that it or let everybody know that it's just not a men's issue. That. And you can back that up by the statistics we have and that is that the women's issues are growing rapidly. I mean, they're really catching up.

Yeah, you guys are great because I jotted down illustrations. Trevor, check testimonies. Rich, check. One other thing I would add is I think the way you portray the ministry or the group that is addressing sexual issues and integrity really matters. I see a lot of churches that the name itself says, this is for men. You know, mighty warriors through Christ and conquer, strong men of God. And that's great. But typically there isn't a female side to it. The female side is just the women's ministry. So one suggestion is if you have groups to roll them under a banner of something that is gender neutral, to be freedom groups or hope and change ministry or whatever works where the look and feel of it is, oh, this is for people, not for men or for women. And the other thing as that leads into is really to determine where do these groups fall? Because it can be a little complicated. Are the men's groups under the men, the women's groups under the women? Is it all under recovery? And that's right. I think a lot of formats can work, but you do need to decide how do we talk about these groups? And I actually think one of the most effective ways is just to talk about it like one of your small group ministries, because then it is for men and for women. There can be for singles and for teens. It's a small group ministry we have that deals with sexual integrity because if you just put it under the men and the women's groups under the women, it immediately gives it a context or maybe a lens that people will view it that may not be accurate. I think that small group ministry idea helps people see, oh, this is a discipleship tool and it is available to both genders.

So kind of going off that gender stuff. One of the ways that we start for men specifically is going through the Conquer series. So, Rich, lots of churches start that way. They start with that. What are the best ways when inviting men to go to this, when they're promoting it, when they're launching it out, saying, hey, we're going to do this. What are some good tips for getting guys to come to this?

A couple things again, you know, where they're doing a series from the pulpit where they're going to announce, make an announcement after, you know, they have a testimony and they say, hey, guys, this is what's available. But the other part of, the other part of this is once they're ready to launch is really have that church leader call us and register with us. We put them on the map. We sign a regional advisor, we're able to train the leaders, work with the leaders. So just to getting the word out, the church is now on the map. So men and women, if they're offering women's groups, can now find a group locally. We get over 2,500 people, men and women, calling every month looking for groups. So you will get groups, men and women from the community and then word of mouth. I mean, it's going to. Once it's on the map, your group will feel quick.

Yeah, I think about what we hear a lot of churches doing with the Conquer series because the stats are so high, the number of men that are looking at pornography, they'll start there. You know, 70% of men are viewing pornography. And so for all you men who fall in this category, we've got a group for you. Well, the big problem with that is even the men who are struggling, a majority of them don't realize or acknowledge they are because they think they're not in the 70%, because, oh, my struggle is not that bad, or it's not that often, or that they don't really mean me. They mean someone who's worse than me. So that happens. And then another percentage of those men that are struggling who know they are, have wives who don't know they are. So if they start to say, well, I'm going to go to this Tuesday night group, and the wife looks at them like, well, why do you need that group? It's much easier just to avoid that conversation and be like, nope, I don't need that group. So it can seem like just a small semantics question of saying this is for all the men. But it's such a vital difference to lift shame. Give anyone the opportunity to come, to say, we just want men to be equipped and trained. And so if you're a man, this is a series for you. It's a night for you. We want all our men to come. I think that gives you the greatest, the greatest possibility that men who do need it will actually come.

Yeah. And as a youth pastor, a former youth pastor, I've said this before on the podcast that, you know, inviting guys to say, hey, if you want to Help your sons be healthy in this area. That's a huge motivator. My kid's 2, my son is 2. And I could tell you right now, that would catch me right this second if I wasn't healthy and even if I didn't realize I needed help and you told me you can help your 2 year old stay free from this stuff, like, I'd be right there. Sign me up. So use that, because I think that could be pretty helpful too.

Yeah. So we talked about the importance of groups for men and for women. But in particular, one of the things we'll often see is that churches have been able to establish pure desire groups for men. They've. They've gotten those up and running. But the vision for women's betrayal groups, a wife, spouse who's feeling hurt and wounded by her husband's behavior can often lag behind starting. And in fact, I'd say in many churches, there's just not a vision for, well, why would the women need a group? They're not the ones struggling. So how does a church frame the women's betrayal group so that it communicates how necessary this is for women who are in that place?

Yeah, that's another great question. And to start off with that, when a church is interested in the ministry, when we have a direct contact with the pastoral oversight main pastor, whoever that is, lead pastor, we'll have a conversation, and a lot of times Ashlyn and I will actually get on a video call with their leadership, and then we'll talk about the importance of starting women's groups and why it's important to have them, you know, alongside the men's groups. So we'll walk them through that process. What it looks like a lot of times, you know, the guys are coming forward. They already have somebody in recovery ministry or whatever at the church that is going to volunteer to lead. The tough part for women's groups in the Betrayal is to find a wife, a pastor staff, who's going to lead the group. But that's why Ashley and I work hard with churches and their staff to kind of walk them through the process, let them understand what the betrayal beyond groups, the eight pillars groups, all that, what the whole package looks like. So they have an idea of, okay, how we can start, when do we start it? And we'll walk them through that process.

Yeah, yeah. I just, I think of all the stories that I've heard just, you know, since being in this ministry and understanding that from the front, a lot of women would question, why do I need a group this isn't my issue. But if you think about if one side of the coin is dirty and the other one's clean, the coin's still dirty. Like it's not a clean coin. It's got to be both sides. And forgive me if this is a terrible illustration. This just came to me. But just that idea of if you want to have a healthy marriage, both people have to be healthy. It can't just be one person fixing their problems and making the other one happy.

It's.

It's that holistic familial healing that really takes place. And so I think that that's what's so important about churches promoting betrayal groups for women and both and for men. I mean, again, going back to the previous question, we gotta make sure that we're casting a wide net. So betrayal groups in general are really, really important because we're communicating from the get. This is a holistic, like both people in the marriage getting healthy type of thing.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. You're not accusing the wife of being dirty, you're just acknowledging it's two halves of a whole. So nobody emailed Trevor? That's not what he meant. Please don't be offended. Try to help you out there, but thanks, man. Appreciate it. What I think of is when we talk about sexual addiction in our material, we frequently bring up how it's an intimacy and attachment disorder. Meaning because we don't understand what true intimacy is and how to be attached and bonded to people in a healthy way, we go to the unhealth of pornography or sexual addiction. Well, so that means if someone's battling with these issues and they have intimacy and attachment disorders, well, guess what? That's making a huge impact on your marriage, even if you haven't realized it up until now. And so for a wife to be able to go through a group and understand what part of these problems does she not own does she need to let go of and release and say, oh, this isn't about me. It's not about my beauty or my sexual performance or my availability. These are things, things that are deficient in him. And what do I do to help? How can I come alongside as a partner and be a part of his healing? And then at the same time, there are ways in which his issues with attachment and intimacy create problems in your marriage. And the betrayal group will help you work through that. But also the enemy will use those struggles to prod and poke at the places where you have self doubt and you have weaknesses in your life. And It'll amplify your own questions about your identity. And so in the Betrayal and Beyond group, you can really see all the ways in which God wants to use this to invite you to a healthier place. So that's what I hear from women so often who do feel like, well, why would I need a group? Once they've gone through it, it's like, wow, I did not know what I didn't know about myself and my marriage. And I. This was so much more than just, you know, his problem. This was about getting us healthy. And without the women's side, I think the likelihood of health in the marriage is reduced.

Yeah. So similar to one of the previous questions when talking about men, how should a church promote women's recovery groups? So women that are struggling, like, we've got eight pillars and then we now have unraveled. That's coming out shortly. So when promoting women's recovery groups with women who struggle with porn and sex addiction, what's the best way to promote those?

Yeah, that's tough because we have a lot of churches that offer groups, but they don't promote them. Yeah, because they should.

They promote them. In your opinion, should we promote groups in our church?

I think so, because it just shows a level of health in the church that, hey, we're just not working with men. We're working with everyone. But again, I'd go back to, you know, the most powerful thing we have is the word of our testimony. And when you can get a woman up there that is sharing her betrayal or sharing her addiction and that there's hope for them, that's pretty powerful. That's going to give those other ladies that are sitting and listening to that, you know, wow, it's a safe place. There is somewhere for me to go. But I do think churches that promote it and, you know, it's all framed under whatever language they have, Freedom groups, women's ministry, however they decide to. But the fact that they can offer it and get the word out there really creates that safe environment for them because so many women will call and they feel that they can't go to their pastor and talk about. Because it's never talked about. Yeah, well, we're dealing with the men only. And then a wife will say, well, I'm hurting and I have nowhere to go because my pastor doesn't want to do women's groups.

So, yeah, puts a tough spot.

Yeah, I think we communicate a lot of value by what we do and don't talk about. So if you don't talk about Groups for recovery and healing on your website or ever in your bulletin and announcements or from the pulpit you're communicating. These aren't really that important. And I think sometimes it's a misunderstanding of confidentiality. A person might be listening. Why aren't the groups confidential? Well, yes, the person participating in the group is confidential, but the fact that you have groups should not be confidential. You need to incorporate it into your website groups listings. It needs to be put in your worship folder or bulletin when new groups are starting. It needs to be a part of your vision of how we help people find healing and recovery. I mean, it just needs to be woven into the fabric of your church everywhere. Because otherwise it does communicate. It's not really that valuable. It's not really that important. It's kind of a side issue. When you look at the data, the percentage of people struggling, it needs to be critical. It needs to be a part of what you do. And so I'm just trying to encourage someone who's listening that maybe does have a hand in what their church does and doesn't communicate. Please try to communicate the value of these groups, even though you're not going to talk about who's in them and where they meet. But that's okay. You can still value the groups by promoting them often.

Yeah. Going back to the language thing that we talked about earlier, too, that idea of, if you call it a people problem, that sets yourself up for success when you decide to promote them. So the type of language you use up front can really be that first step. And then when you want to promote it, then obviously testimonies and the same stuff that we're using for really all the answers of how to promote people telling their story. But that starts with the language that we use from up front. And I think that that's really. And this is just my own kind of thing. This is the stuff I think about. I notice that sort of stuff at church a lot. And specifically at the church I go to, I notice the language that we use. And I don't think we're as intentional with language when it comes to addiction or certain types of struggles. And I think we need to start being more intentional in that. So I think that that really can be a small adjustment that makes a huge impact.

Yeah. Well, and going back specifically to the question about women's addiction issues, I think it's just being mindful that if we promote the Conquer series or we talk about a group for men, we should say, and we know it's not a man's Problem. We want to have groups for women too. And maybe you're not ready to launch it, but even just to talk about it there and say, we're looking for women that might want to help start this group. We want to have a plan. Here's some steps we're taking. So just always communicating those two together can be a really helpful way to make sure the woman who is struggling hears, oh, my problem matters too. Yeah, so we're getting into it a little bit. But what are some other creative ways to promote pure desire groups and the hope of recovery to the church body?

So a couple, a couple things. And this is again, kind of from my role, I tend to look at communications, promotions, that sort of stuff quite a bit. And I think that video testimonies in the church are very powerful. And they don't have to be like high quality with music in the background and a green screen behind it can just be sitting down one on one with somebody and asking them to tell their story, or sitting down with a couple who's had some recovery experience and really sharing that. Because video testimony is something that you can not only do from the stage, like during church, but you also can put that on social media and on your website. So it becomes this really broad thing that you can get out. And I think also using men's and women's events in your church are another way. And I know that sometimes churches tend to like tack on the sexual stuff onto a relationship, you know, type of marriage event or something like that. That's totally fine, go for it. But if you want to be specific to this, sometimes having those events that are just specifically for this topic, both for men and for women, is really, really important. And then just, you know, thinking as a church wide, doing a series, you mentioned that rich, like doing a series on sexual integrity, you know, really studying sex in the Bible, understanding what God's design is for and understanding what health in scripture looks like. I think that that also can be a huge conversation starter.

Yeah, I think that's a great idea to approach it with other topics. Like to have Pure Desire present a marriage conference, which we do, or a parenting event, or an event on protecting your kids online or just a learning session on let's understand the impact of pornography on our society. So it's not even about the groups, but it's kind of, it's scratching where people are itching like they want parenting advice, they want marriage advice. And helping them see that good parenting means talking to your kids about sex. And a good marriage means being Able to talk about sex and intimacy and struggles. So those kind of gateways can be ways to actually alert people to, oh, I think a group would help us in this area.

Absolutely. All right, so what does it look like to promote Pure desire groups from the pulpit? Nick, you've been a senior pastor. You were a senior pastor for a long time, and you did this well. So what does it look like? What are some things to do and not do from the front when talking about groups?

Yeah, I think this goes back to that question of, do you see this as a part of the discipleship process? It doesn't have to be the whole process, but is it part of it? And if as a pastor or a leader, you see this as part of our discipleship process, that makes announcing it from the front, from the pulpit so much easier. Whereas if it's a side issue, we put it under recovery ministry, then it'll feel unnecessary. And what I would say is, quite frankly, the more engaged a lead pastor is in promoting groups, the more successful they'll be. The less engaged, the harder it is for that ministry to be sustained, because there's such value communicated. So as a lead pastor, does that mean you have to be in the groups? No. Does that mean this has to be your struggle? No. But you need to be more than supportive, because supportive usually means, well, I allow it to happen, but I don't really know much about it. I don't talk about it. I don't announce it. It'll never have the place in the church body it needs. Unless your support means. I'm an active proponent. I'm calling people to lives of integrity and from a healthy, good place of God's plan and love for them, Inviting people into a better way of life. And then talking about our groups and if we weave it into our messages that way, it really opens the door for people to say, oh, I heard my senior pastor talk about how life changing these groups are. Now I feel safe to go because I know all the way to the top there's permission. So that maybe be my challenge to you. If you're listening and you're a leader or you do announcements or preach. Is what you're saying giving people permission to address this in their life? Or do they have to go kind of under the COVID of darkness for fear they might be exposed? So just keep that in mind that you carry incredible power to give people that open door.

You talk to people all the time, Rich, about this stuff. How have you seen it done?

Well, really, just like Nick talked about it really is just. I love hearing when a pastor has a passion to help and at the same time isn't afraid to share his own struggles.

That.

That goes a long way when launching the ministry at the church. Because if, you know, if. If I'm sitting there and I'm listening to a sermon and the pastor saying, hey, this is what I used to struggle with, and this is what I've done, man, that's huge. That's telling me that this church is the safest place I could be at this point in time in my life. Because they've created this culture where it's okay not to be okay.

Yeah.

We just got a great example from a church in Texas that the church was going through. I think it was like a Stories of Healing series. And they'd done, you know, physical things and, you know, restored marriages. And then the pastor, when they wanted to address sexuality, brought up a man in the church who had gone through pure desire groups and counseling and was experiencing incredible freedom. And for like, 15 to 20 minutes of his message, he just interviewed this young man and let him tell his story. But because the pastor was interviewing him, he was able to craft it in a way that it fit their church context, it fit the sermon series. And it didn't just feel like this, you know, out of left field testimony. It felt like this is just part of what our church body does. And I thought, man, what a powerful way to say to your whole church, it's okay to address your sexuality here because we're integrating it in everything we do. And so something like that, an interview, making it part of a sermon could be a great way to do it.

Yeah. You know, something I want to tack on here is that I think that sometimes we assume, because I've been a pastor, I've been there before, where we assume that if I just give permission for someone to do something or pursue something, that that's enough. But I don't think that that's enough. I think that what we can do is also create that avenue for that person to get health. So instead of saying, like, go, attack this sexual issue and take it, reclaim it, get healthy. Like, go. It's like, it's a nice pep talk, but unless you show them the way or give them a lane that actually is going to take them there, then I think that the words usually end up falling flat. Like, I can get rah, rah and get super motivated. But unless I know what step one, two, and three are to really getting healthy, this is. Maybe this is just my personality, but I talk myself out of it super quick. Like, it's really vague. I don't know how to do it. So I think that being really specific up front as to, like, if your church is going to address sexual issues, then have a program that you're starting or have something of substance and a value that these people can go through a process, whether it's pure desire or not. Don't just say, hey, we're passionate about it, and then don't do anything. Make sure that that's always coupled with a structure that helps people give that avenue to health.

Yeah. That brings up a great kind of example that I've used where I've put myself in a position to say, if I was a guy that just stumbled with pornography again last night, and now I'm going to my church's website to look for help, would it show me where to go? And if in less than a minute I can't figure out the right person to contact or where that group meets or how to get involved, you're probably going to lose me. And I think the vast, even churches that we work with that have groups when I'll kind of take that process with their website, it's like I can't find it. And we keep it under the radar for some bizarre reason that we think that's the right approach. But realize that very situation is going to happen. A couple that's in the middle of an argument, the wife's going to be looking at the church website, like, who do we call? And if the only option is the church main line, I mean, some will call and ask for help, but a lot of people, like, I don't think our church does anything with this. I guess we better find a counselor. And I think there's such an opportunity for churches to minister to the men and women in their church by just saying, we have a plan. Here's what it is, here's who to call, here's where to start. And it doesn't even need to be a big part of the website. It might be one tab or one part under the marriage. Wherever you put it is your call. But is it clear? Just like you were saying. Because that's what people need. Because it says we can help and you're not alone.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Rich, what other kind of support do we have for churches who have questions or maybe they're listening to this and like, man, we want to get going, but we still feel like we need help. It feels like we're entering into brand new territory and it's a little scary. What kind of help is available through Pure Desire as they look to engage more with groups in a healing ministry.

Well, I can tell you, after every podcast we've done talking about groups, my phone gets blown up. So they're listening as soon as these are posted.

Sorry, not sorry.

So that's once this is posted and you guys are listening to this. To have that conversation, call and Ashley Jameson, who is the international women's group coordinator. The best thing to really start that process is where the both of us can meet with the leaders staff and really walk them again through that kind of what the process looks like. And then so when we do that, they start off really well. Very little questions, because we've spent an hour with them basically outlining the whole ministry. You know, how to promote Walk them through, starting groups, the whole process, which.

Is what stops a lot of churches from getting into it. Because they don't know where to start.

Correct. And they feel like they're on an island all by themselves.

Right.

So, which is great, because not only is it Ashley and I, we have our regional advisors all over the country who offer support for the group leaders and the church, but we'll walk them through anytime. Like, I just had a conversation just a little bit ago. Hey, we're starting a conqueror series. What's the best way to promote it? Brand new church. I said, have you registered your group with us? So walked them through what we just talked about a little bit ago about, let's get you on the map and get your leaders trained. They're starting in June, I believe it was. So exactly what we're talking about. I just had the same conversation.

Yeah.

So it's all about getting. Asking for help, not being afraid to ask for help, and really setting up steps. So when you launch it, it goes really smooth.

Well, and something that we've been doing a little bit more often is, and we really have viewed it this way a lot from our perspective, is we can start the conversation for you. So if you want to have a Pure Desire conference, if you want to have a Pure Desire men's event or women's event or even, you know, Nick and I just went down to San Diego and spoke at a men's breakfast like that. That stuff that we are happy to do and would be more than willing to help you kickstart that, I think that's one of the things that makes our ministry a little unique is that idea that we are really all about equipping the church, not just making money, not just getting Partners. But really having churches equipped so they can do this on their own. And honestly, this is our goal. Our goal is that you never have to call Rich or Ashley again. You just have it all there and you got it all figured out and you're just rocking this thing. So I think using those resources and take advantage of it is definitely beneficial.

One other thing that churches could do, on the Pure Desire webpage, PureDesire.org, we have our groups finder map. And you could go and search the map just to see what churches in your neck of the woods might be running groups. And you see, oh, there's, there's one on the other side of town. I'm gonna call up a pastor there. I'm gonna call the phone number listed here as the ministry leader and just say, what are you guys doing? How's it working? Because then it's. It's not. You know, let's say if you're in North Carolina, you're not calling across the country. And I mean, we're in Oregon. We probably feel like we're in a different world than you in North Carolina. But there's likely a church within an hour of you that's already doing this. And you could say, how's this worked? What. What have you learned? And that kind of sense of, like you said, we're not on an island by ourself. We're doing it with other churches in our area that are also in this. That can be a huge boost to you and your leaders.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's key is that community aspect when you have multiple churches in an area that are running groups where, I mean, a perfect example is here and where we're at. You know, we have guys that are going to conquer series at our church, but maybe they don't have a group, so they'll go to Nick's church because they have a group on a Monday night or whatever. So when the churches in the community can work together, because maybe they have different nights, but we're doing a conquer series or this. That's great, because now it's. It's in a community ministry that is birthed out of the church. And it's helping, you know, bring churches together, building relationships, which is really mean, which is great to see.

Yeah. So obviously how and when you promote groups is super important in your church. There are good ways to do it and there are definitely bad ways to do it. We hope that our conversation today gives you some of the do's and don'ts. It gives you some good tips on how to do this in a healthy way that you're reaching more people for sexual health. So, Nick Rich thanks guys.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Where's the recolor?

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