098 – 5 Reasons To Get Counseling

Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, where we partner with you to bring hope and freedom on your journey to purity. The Masters, PGA Championship, Ryder cup, and Pure Desire Golf. What do all those have in common? One of them is launching their first ever tournament this year, June 17, at the prestigious Persimmon Country Club in Gresham, Oregon. Pure Desire is hosting their first annual Pure Desire Golf tournament. All proceeds go to advancing the message of hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction and betrayal. Come support Pure Desire and play the best round of golf of your life. It's the perfect combo. To register and to sign up, visit PureDesire.org golf we'll see you guys there. Hey there. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and we're so thankful you're taking time out of your day to hang out with us. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Hey, boo Boo. I'm not your average. A bear.

All right, so tell us what that is.

That's Yogi Bear.

Okay.

Right.

Your friendly bear. I mean, that's outside my demographic, I think.

You know, recently, I went through a lot of our past podcast intros, and it was humbling how many of them were from cartoons? I think it says a lot about my life and maybe more my childhood. But, yeah, anyone who's an avid listener is probably like, you know, he has a lot of cartoon greetings in his repertoire. That's good.

Do our listeners. Our listeners use that word repertoire? That's fancy. We got fancy listeners. That's great. Well, you know, that listener that me and Nick could go on and on, however, we're not gonna do that. We're joined today by one of the more educated men on staff, Tyler Chinson. Tyler's our clinical director overseeing the clinical team counseling, and honestly, too, contributing some of our resources as well. So, Tyler, thanks for being here.

Great to be here. Thanks for the invite.

Yeah. So today's episode, we're gonna be talking about five big reasons to consider counseling, really, for sexual addiction and betrayal. And we know that in the Christian realm, counseling can be pretty taboo. Right. Can be one of those things that a lot of churches and a lot of people who grew up in the church can say, that seems a little scientific or psychological, but we kind of want to debunk that a little bit. But really just talk about, really, five big reasons why counseling can be so helpful.

Yeah.

And I'm excited about the topic because I think for a lot of people that grew up in a fundamental Christian home or traditional Christianity, counseling can be seen as a Statement of failure. They're like, I failed and Jesus wasn't enough. So now I need to go to a counselor. And that was really my mindset nine years ago, before I came through counseling. And having then experienced it, my viewpoint changes to see that counseling isn't about failure, but it's about the strength of acknowledging I need help, I need other people. And that isn't failure. That's, as one of our speakers says, that's a sign of your strength and your wisdom to be willing to say, I need some help. And so I'm glad to have Tyler talk us through. How do we find that help and why and when should we do it?

Absolutely. So, Tyler, the first one, and these are all stuff that you established. You wrote out kind of a document for us. This is all based on a clinical director's approach. We didn't just come up with these on our own. But the first one is really the problem won't stop the. That's reason number one. So talk us through that a little bit.

Indeed. Oftentimes, in terms of a couple, they'll come into a counseling environment carrying a lot of baggage from their childhood. And that baggage could be values, belief systems, traditions. And so they enter into a marriage, a committed relationship, carrying their past and that community in their mind of what is right, what is true, and how to move forward. But the spouse has a similar set of beliefs. And so oftentimes those couples can come together and experience difficulty trying to plot the course forward. And then when there are those challenges, as Nick had alluded to, they believe, gosh, we should be able to figure this out on our own. But it's not uncommon that we see couples who have had a less than optimum model of marriage, of relationship, so they bring that paradigm into the relationship as well. The analogy I like to draw is the life experiences as an individual grows up is based on relationships, experiences, interactions. And each of those relationships and interactions are like pixels. And over time, those pixels create a picture, and that's their paradigm and how they view life. And oftentimes their spouse, or in the case of an individual viewing reality, their picture is much, much different than that of others. And so sometimes it's hard to correlate those different pictures into one.

That's a great illustration.

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like they get stuck in a way of seeing things. And because their way of seeing things doesn't change, no matter what efforts they make, it doesn't work. You know, I found as a pastor, when people would come just for pastoral counseling, and I'M not a counselor, so take this with a grain of salt. But I'd hear their story, and it was regular for me to find myself thinking they're coming five years too late. Like, as I hear their story, I think five years ago is when you should have been coming. But we wait for the pain in our lives to get bad and until we finally seek out help. But just curious if you see that kind of thing as well as we're talking along the lines of the problem won't stop. Do you feel people wait too long to seek out help?

Absolutely. You know, there's actually research that goes into what brings individuals and couples into a counseling environment. And oftentimes the pain has just gotten so great. And most people indicate that it's been six years of living in distress before they'll reach out for that help. So that five, six year window is absolutely accurate.

I wonder too, I would speculate that in America, especially because we're kind of the pull ourselves up from our bootstraps type, we know, I'm going to do this my way. I'm going to figure this out by myself. And I know even as a Christian, there are times where instead of depending on God's grace, I decide, no, I'm going to prove myself. I'm going to prove my worth to the kingdom or to other people or to him. And so it's just interesting how those two can be married and then it's really ourselves, we ourselves are keeping ourselves from moving forward and involving someone else. Because then for a lot of people, that means I'm admitting defeat.

It absolutely requires humility to step into that space of receiving outside help.

Yeah, it's not easy for a lot, man. I'm still thinking about six years, you know, and to think if someone is listening to this and they're looking back going, man, the last year has been really painful. But back to your illustration, Tyler. If they realize their paradigm or their picture hasn't changed, they're just trying harder to change some behavior and fix the marriage. They may be looking at either five more years of that pain and then reaching out, or maybe this will be an encouragement to say, you know, I don't want five more years of this. Let's reach out now. So that's, that's just really insightful. So the second reason that someone could pursue or reach out for counseling is to find a guide who knows the way. What does that mean?

What that means is stepping outside of probably someone's comfort zone.

Yeah, naturally.

Because the individuals that we meet with the couples we meet with, what is required of them is a tremendous level of courage to say, you know what? I'm going to enter this arena. It feels very unknown. They may ask me to do some things that are difficult for me to do, go to places that are really hard to explore, and it requires courage. If I could speak just briefly, self disclosure. My dad carried a tremendous father wound throughout his life. And I would contend today if he had reached out, sought help, a different perspective unlike his own, he may have received the help that he needed that would have allowed him to step into close personal relationships, something he really struggled with throughout his life.

Yeah.

So a guide that knows the way. This really isn't. Most clinicians first rodeo, and they've seen similar stories time and time and time again. And they're equipped, they're educated, they know how to guide an individual or a couple through distress.

Yeah. So I'm a movie guy. Most people know that. And for me, when I think of this, I just think of Obi Wan and Luke Skywalker. So Star Wars. If you don't watch Star wars, then shame on you. But I'm just kidding. There are probably some of you out there that don't like it, and that's okay. However, Obi Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight guy who's been down the road, down the path, and you think of Luke figuring some things out and realizes, I don't really know very much. His world expands and he doesn't have really any roadmap. And that's what Obi Wan is. He's the guide. He's the person that shows him how to use the Force. I know I'm nerding out on this stuff, but it could get so much worse. So just, you know, understand that. But understanding that, he helps him understand what he needs to know. And the counselor can do the same thing. The counselor can literally help you expand that worldview and make sense of it for you. And it's again, it's like, how are you going to go? If you want to climb a mountain and you know it's treacherous and dangerous and you don't know the way, then why would you try doing it by yourself? You know? So I just think that that guide, that person that can really be there and help you, is so instrumental in getting healthy.

Yeah. That idea of someone who's been there before and not just been through this before in terms of helping one other person, like this is what they, you know, so when my. When my car breaks down and I'm not a car Guy. I don't just approach my random friends and say, can you look at my car? Because you own a car, you can fix it, right? No. I think of a mechanic that's been trained, has studied, has been under the hood of countless cars, and they're gonna look at it when they open the hood of my car, unlike me, who I'll just stand there and poke at things and shake a few things. They're gonna look with insight and immediately, more often than not, go to the heart of the problem. They're gonna hear about a few symptoms. They're going to ask, what's it been doing? And they'll be like, oh, I bet it's your U joint. Or I just. I made that up. I don't know if cars have U joints. But I think in a similar way, that's what we're doing in counseling at Pure Desire is you guys have been under the hood of a lot of marriages and seen a lot of the symptoms. And, you know, not that every marriage is the same like a car, so there's differences there, but you know what to look for.

Indeed.

And I think just that perspective is often what we're missing, because we're not experts in marriage. We've only had one marriage, or maybe two or three for some of us. But being an expert in sexual addiction and what it takes to get free of it, it's crucial to have a guy who knows the way.

Indeed. And the diagnosis piece is so important on the front end. And Pure Desire integrates diagnostic tools, we call them assessments, that are very helpful in identifying the issue, the scope of the problem, the relational dynamic, and some of the events from an individual's past that are influencing their current, their present.

Yeah, absolutely. So really, this conversation is just going right into reason number three, which is really the clinical foundation that counseling offers. So let's talk through that.

Well, Nick mentioned you probably wouldn't go to your neighbor to diagnose and address mechanical issues because he's a mechanic.

Unless your neighbor is a mechanic.

Yeah, well, I would agree with that. There is a spectrum of helpers within the community that desire to help people. And they could be family members, could be a barber, a counselor, a pastor. And some of those are very, very good resources. Excellent resources. One thing that's unique about Pure Desire is we recognize the importance of. Of that clinical understanding of what the research tells us about the brain, the body, trauma, addiction, healing. And so we have one foot in that camp and then one foot in the spiritual side. Healing, restoration, and recovery. So we See the value, we see the importance, and we integrate those components in helping an individual or a couple. Within this field, there is always ongoing, continuing ed. It's incredibly important that we stay out in front of the information, the research that's being conducted, and have a knowledge of that information.

Yeah, absolutely.

And how to integrate it in care.

I wonder for a lot of people when they hear the word clinical, what comes into our minds is a medical clinic and doctor's offices or perhaps even needing to go to inpatient clinical treatment for rehab for addiction, because we hear about movie stars that go to these ultra fancy clinical rehab places. But when we refer to clinical here, we're referring more to the training and expertise that our team has. Is that right? Is that how you would describe clinical?

That's one portion and it's an important portion of it. The other part, Nick, is the protocol that's integrated into the care and the treatment of an individual or couple. It's having that clinical guideline. This was what works. This is how it works and this is why it works. And we integrate that protocol in the care.

That's good. I just wanted to make sure no one heard the podcast and was imagining they'd have to go to some office and put on a white gown and get like, I'm need clinical care. What do they mean that it's really that expertise and that protocol that really has been so effective for many, many couples.

Well, and the clinical piece brings that educational side too, where you understand the way brain works, you understand the way the chemicals in the body are released, you understand a holistic, really the holistic benefits to having treatment, and then also the holistic really side of what happens in your body throughout, specifically this struggle. Right. So we're in the realm of sexual addiction. So that's what we're talking about. So it's really, you can speak to the addictive properties of this addiction, of this issue in so many different ways. So it's not just are you clinically trained to walk someone through, there's also that educational piece that you have that you understand holistically what it means for someone to be healthy.

Indeed.

So, Tyler, the fourth reason someone should consider clinical counseling is finding resources that specifically help. And in a day and age where you can walk into a Barnes and Noble and the self help section seems endless, or, you know, Amazon books can drop a bunch of self help books on your doorstep tomorrow. What do we mean by having resources that help? Can't anyone find resources that help? Or why would they consider counseling for.

That Again, the guide to help usher an individual or a couple through that healing process is incredibly beneficial. Yes, we can pick up books, worksheets, there are a number of different resources that are free and available to each one of us. But to have that established protocol and guides guideline for healing, it's hard to put a price on that. As far as the resources that peer Desire implement, we connected a number of years ago with the ITAP organization, which is the International Institute of Trauma and Addiction Professionals. That's an organization overseen by Dr. Patrick Carnes and, and he has done research for 30 years in this field. And so the research that he has conducted, we implement the findings into our treatment protocol. So with a pure Desire client, we integrate four different resources for an individual, six for a couple. And so we know the resources at work, they are effective and that's, that's why we use them.

Yeah, I think to go back to movies, to comic books, shocker. I just think that like if you, if you ever watched Batman, you understand that he has his tool belt and he has the kit there that he always has whenever he's out fighting crime. He has exactly what he needs already in that tool belt. And I think that resources are that for us, that we're equipping ourselves with these resources. And naturally these are things that we're encouraging people to get if they come into our counseling program. But you're equipping yourself with this stuff that's gonna help you to not only do well in the program, but once you're outside the program to live in health. So this is stuff that you can refer back to, like maybe you have a great relationship with your counselor and you can just call them up on a Tuesday afternoon and say, hey, Tyler, just wanted to touch base. I have a couple questions. That's one thing, but then knowing you have this resource that you've walked through, you can go back and look at that resource time after time after time, knowing that that's now in your toolkit. So I think having the right resources is more important than having a breadth or a large number of resources.

I agree with that. I want to include community as a resource. After a year long program, recovery restoration program, there's still much work to be done and a lot of that's done in community.

Yeah, the value of groups. Quick story. My wife and I recently bought a new house and the house we bought has a front gate. I've never owned a front gate or thought of a need for one, but this gate recently quit working and the previous homeowners were kind enough to leave the owner's manual to that gate system. And I pulled it out, thinking, I'm going to figure out what's wrong with this. And I opened the pages, and it quickly became evident that the level of expertise I would need in order to understand how my gate works, which I thought was a basically simple system. There's. There's practically a computer built into this gate system. And I was reading sentences where it was like, I know every word in this sentence, but when you put them together, I have no idea what that means or what they're referring to.

That's good.

And so I could sit there all day and read that document, and it has all the right information, but with my background and understanding, I would not have the ability to apply it. And I could maybe take the time to take a few classes. I could get there eventually. But on the other hand, I'm like, I need to call a gate guy, because I'm gonna be here all day. And I think that's what we're talking about with resources like, yeah, you can. A lot of the books we use, you could probably order them from ITAP or on Amazon. But just reading the sentences doesn't mean the same thing as being able to apply them and work them into your life. And I feel like looking back on my own experience working with the group at Pure Desire, it was their insight in how those resources specifically worked in my life and in my marriage, and that made all the difference. So that may be an encouragement to someone that does love books. And they're like, I'm just going to read and study my way out of this problem. It's really not that simple. So reaching out to someone that can help you apply those resources is really vital.

Yeah.

So one thing we've discovered is real change occurs experientially. To read it in a book is one thing. To read the manual. Okay. But to really, you know, roll up your sleeves and do the work. That's where real change takes place.

Yeah. I could read an IKEA manual all I want, but until I try to put that table together, I really don't know how to put the table together.

And you won't have a table.

Exactly. That's exactly right. All right, so reason number five, the last one for our episode today, simply, it works. So let's talk through that.

I'd like to be able to share the number of times that we have heard, wow, we're going deeper in this content that Pure Desire is providing, this work that we're doing here than I have in the previous eight years. Wow. I've heard that a number of times heard guys in their 60s say, Wow, I wish I had known about this 40 years ago. I wouldn't have been struggling my entire life if I had known that there was a resource, a group, an organization, a protocol, if you will, that could help me out of this pit that I've been burdened by for so very long. It was interesting. I met with an individual via video conference, and he showed up on the screen and I thought, this dude is as rough and tumble as they get. And looked straight military. And he started telling a little of his story and pretty rough. And he flew combat missions and just a very fascinating story. And no one got close. No one got close to him. By the end of that evaluation session, those two hours with him and interpreting the data of his assessments and just sharing him sharing with me, and me sharing a little about what we can offer him. At the end of that time together, he had tears in his eyes, and I don't know if this dude's ever cried in his life. Yeah, sure, look the type.

Yeah.

But he said, tyler, I wish I could reach through this screen and hug you and say thank you. For the first time in my 46 years, I feel like someone understands and can help.

Wow.

And it was a powerful one.

Yeah.

That's so awesome.

This process works. And we hear that time and time again. Does that mean that everyone that steps in this arena will be successful? Nope.

Right.

About 15% don't complete the work with pure desire. When they do step in to that counseling environment for a number of reasons, it's difficult work, really challenging, and sometimes that takes people out.

Yet it seems like in so many of these reasons that we're discussing today, there does come kind of a decision point for the individual who says, I'm willing to do whatever it takes and actually then put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. Because I know in my marriage I'd been pretty upfront with my wife when we got engaged, that I was struggling, and, hey, I'm going to do my best not to struggle anymore, but no promises kind of thing. And I continued to struggle. And when I would hurt my wife, when I would get up the courage to confess, I would find myself saying, what do you want me to do? I'll do anything. But I don't think I actually was ready to do whatever it took. A lot of those times I was just ready to do whatever would make her feel better. But when it came to our breaking point. And we found the opportunity to pure desire. My wife kind of flipped that around and in an appropriate way said, I thought you said you'd do whatever it takes. And it seems like this is what it takes. Are you willing? And I honestly had to work through that and come to a place of saying, it looks like it's going to cost me more time and energy and money than I thought. But maybe that's the problem. Maybe I've thought I could do it quicker, easier, on my own, and I'm at year 15 and I'm still struggling with some of the same stuff that I've hated from the beginning. But I'm back again. Maybe that's my issue, that I think I know how to do it and to surrender to the process. And I know for men the idea surrender doesn't sound good. We're not surrendering to an enemy though. We're not surrendering out of weakness. We're surrendering our ego and our pride and our self sufficiency. That I can figure this out to in humility, go, I can't figure this one out. And I'm going to do whatever it takes. And that decision point, believing it works, believing the resources are there, believing there's a guide that can help, believing there's a clinical foundation, all of that can help get us to the decision point. But just my encouragement, maybe to a listener out there, is if that's what you're wrestling with, maybe you need some time alone to just really think about what's keeping me from doing whatever it takes. Because if there's something that works, why not jump in, right?

And I think it's important to say with this reason number five, it works only if people put in the actual work. Like, we don't actually do the work for you. We show you the roadmap and give you the tools you need to actually walk that road. But then you have to walk, we can walk right alongside you, but we're not going to go behind you and push you up that path. You got to do it. And it's, I mean, we talk about this in our groups. We talk about this really in anything. Any good coach would tell you that I don't do the work for my players. I show them how, I teach them how and I mentor them how and then they have to do it. And it's the same thing with this we. You know that guy who you talk to to say that now he knows what he needs to do, he understands the path forward, but he wasn't healed in that moment. That was the front end of his journey. But he's got to walk through and he's got to go that path. But he doesn't have to do it alone. I think that that's what's really important to understand, that this isn't something that you have to do on your own. We're here to help, but you have to do the work. And as you said, Tyler, it's a lot of work.

It is a lot of work. Yeah. You know, I've told guys, if you give 30%, that's what you'll get on the backside. That's what you'll get out of it. And you won't be happy with 30%.

Yeah, yeah.

I would also ask people what's at stake? What's the stake? And then we begin to take an inventory of what's at stake.

That's right.

And usually it's a lot.

Yeah, yeah. It makes me think too. It's one of those things, and we've talked about this, that when couples come through the counseling process and look back, almost universally, their response is, it was worth it, we'd recommend it to others, we would do it again. And there are many things like that in life that on the front end, it's hard to explain or make sense of it because you just don't know what you don't know. And it's like trying to explain maybe to an 8 year old boy that one day you will love the idea of kissing a girl. And they're like, ooh, gross, that's terrible. That's awful. And it's like, but you know, as an adult man who was married, you're like, well, I know things you don't know. And I've experienced it. And until you get there, I don't expect you to necessarily agree with me. And so for some couples, for men and women to hear what we're talking about, counseling because of their paradigm, their family of origin, their background, just the thought of counseling might be like, ugh, I don't need that. But if you could take it from people that have walked that road and say, you know, if you could get to the other side, you'll see a lot of things you're not seeing right now. And we'd love to encourage you to take that step and just see what God does next.

Absolutely. There are thousands of men and women whose lives have been changed by getting counseling. Marriages have been restored, families have been given a second chance. And men and women have finally diminished that shame. And are now walking in freedom. All three of us in this room right now are a part of that number. If you're struggling with sexually compulsive behaviors or betrayal from sexual addiction, Pure Desire's counseling program is an option we'd hope you consider. If you want more info, you can check out PureDesire.org counseling counseling to learn more. You can see what the program entails how to receive a free consultation. So you probably talk to Tyler in that free consultation. Get to spend some time with him. So Tyler, thanks man for what you do and thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

It's a privilege. Thank you both.

Thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe, download and share. You can also rate and review our podcast. The more reviews we get, the more the easier it is for others to find the podcast. If you'd like to support the message of hope and healing and developing sexual integrity, go to PureDesire.org give for more information about the ministry, check out our website PureDesire.org and you can follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. Once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time.