114 - Generational Curses

Foreign.

You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal and relationship issues. What's up, guys? Just wanted to let you know about our upcoming Pure desire Men's Conference, September 14, Troutdale, Oregon at Harvest Christian Church. This is a one day event that's going to be a great time together. We're going to have food, we're going to have fellowship, and we're going to have some great sessions and teachings on sexual integrity. How to create, how to maintain it, how to live in community the best way we know how. Our featured speaker is Jay Stringer. We also have a sit down with Dr. Ted and other sessions that you guys are gonna love. Make sure to register and check out all the info on our website, PureDesire.org pdman we'll see you guys there. Good day to you, listener. This is your host, Trevor Windsor and you are listening to episode 114 of the Pure Desire podcast. Here with me as always, my co host, Nick Stumbo.

Good to the last drop.

Okay, I don't know, I like I'm on the spot right now. I don't know what that is.

That is, since 1907, a phrase that Maxwell House Coffee has used as their slogan. Did you know some people think that it was originally attributed to Theodore Roosevelt, but I was reading about this today in your research for your intro. Exactly. A newspaper reported that what Theodore Roosevelt actually said is, this is the kind of stuff I drink when I'm hunting bears. Which personally I think would be a way better slogan for Maxwell House. The kind of stuff you drink when hunting bears. I want that on a taste.

Or just the stuff that Roosevelt drank when like that's, that's pretty significant.

Well, this podcast though is going to be good to the last drop.

Good to the last drop. So we sat down with the founders, Dr. Ted and Diane Roberts. They're both clinicians, founders of the ministry and we talked about generational curses.

Yeah, we're really taking a look in this episode about the topic of like family of origin issues and what impact does our, our parents and the generations that came before us have on us? Because we're all, in a lot of ways, we're a byproduct of how we were raised, both DNA kind of factors and environmental things. And so it's one of those areas the more we lean into and just get an understanding of, I think the more God can translate it into health in our lives as we move forward.

Yeah.

And this is something that we all have in our life, generational curses are there. So this was a longer conversation with them, and we just appreciated their time and their vulnerability and expertise.

Yeah. Some real insights into Ted and Diane's lives, which is kind of a unique thing.

Yep. So enjoy the episode. The founders are in the house. Dr. Ted and Diane, you're back.

Welcome.

Good to be with you.

Yeah.

So excited.

Well, as we talked about in the intro, talking about generational curses today, and I know for me, growing up, this is not language that was used very often, seemed to be very Old Testament. And so if this is maybe language that you feel like is charismatic or you've never heard before, we're gonna really try to make it easy to understand today.

Yeah, well, I think it's significant because probably everyone listening can relate to. Boy, there's things about me that seem to have been in my parents. And this runs in our family. We even use that phrase, oh, it runs in the family. But let's really unpack what we're talking about here. So, Ted, how would you define a generational curse? And where do we see this coming up in Scripture?

Great question. You ask, where do we see this coming up in Scripture? The concept is biblical in its origin. The first place you find generational curses mentioned is in Exodus, chapter 34. And Donald read that.

Tidbunme read that. So Moses cut two stones like the former ones, and he rose early in the morning and went up to Sinai as the Lord had commanded him and took in his hand the two tablets of stone. The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there and proclaimed the name the Lord. The Lord passed before him and proclaimed the Lord, the Lord. O God. A God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgressions and sins, yet by no means clearing the guilt, but visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation.

That's where you get the concept of generational curses right there. This scripture is so powerful. I mean, it's seismic in its implications. It's such severe stress, theologically, leaves a stress fracture running all the way from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Notice it's about the second time Moses went up on top of the mountain. First time one happened, he's up there 40 days. 40 days. And all the guys, all the addicts in the valley went, hey, he's been gone for 40 days. God probably killed him. It shows you their view of what God was. So they said, we're bored. Let's party. And the world's greatest relapse took place. One million people fell into absolute idolatry. That's a great definition of addiction. Theologically, it's idolatry. It's taking something or someone else to meet your painful needs, try to medicate your pain, rather than taking directly to God and process it. And the. The level of denial. And what was going on was insane. I mean, it's just. It's incredible. Moses comes off the mountain. He comes up to Aaron, his good buddy, and he says, hey, what's going on here? How come everybody's worshiping the calf? Worshiping the calf like we did back in Egypt. And what did he say? He said, they gave me the gold, I threw it in the fire and out hopped this lamb.

Yeah. Jumped right out of there.

It's a great story.

Yeah, great.

The denial is great, too.

I've counseled addicts for 30 years. I've never heard denial to that depth. It's incredible what took place. Simply threw in the fire, and out came this. Out came this. Out came this calf. And what's interesting is what Moses does next. He draws a very clear boundary. He says, who's for us and who's for the Lord? Okay, who's against us and who's for the Lord? And they killed 3,000 people. The priest took swords and killed 3,000 people. He's drawing very strong boundaries. That's why it's so important if you're a sex addict, to really have your inner circle clearly defined. And you've got to connect it with some implications. Because I've noticed that when a guy has a wife who has a strong relapse safety plan, his relapse rate goes to zero. Because he has consequences with his behavior. And it's really important when Moses did and next, what he did. This is really strange. He took the calf, burned it, and ground it up and made all the people drink it, poured it in the water and drink it. What's that about?

No, thank you.

Well, what they discovered is if you purify gold and you pound it really to the sulfur, a fine level, like Moses always did, because he was really angry. Then you get a colloid suspension, and the water turns bright red, and it tastes bitter. He's giving an ulimic memory, remembering the loss of the 3,000 people, how bitter it was, and they're connecting with sin. He's rearranging their thinking process. That's what's going on. But you got to ask yourself, well, is Moses saying, I get hammered for what my parents and grandparents did? I get hammered for stuff I didn't even do? Well, you got to put it in context. What does it say about God? It says, first of all that he's merciful, gracious, long suffering and abounding in kindness. Now, what's taking place here before God says, I'm not going with you to the promised land. And Moses goes, if you're not going, I don't want to go. He says, would you show me your glory? God says, no man will see me face to face, but I'll hide you in the cleft of the rock, and I'll pass by and you'll see my backside. His backside is so beautiful. It's just stunning. This picture of God's character is the most frequently quoted characteristic of God throughout the whole New Testament. It's really powerful, frequent coding about how good and gracious God is. Just powerful. And those two fit. And really tension, big tension, same place.

So help me understand a little bit. Like for someone who, you know, is thinking about a generational curse that being passed down from generation to generation, is that then a struggle that I have had that will be passed down genetically, biologically to my. Or is it spiritual? Is it physical? Is it both? What do you think about that?

It's a great question. The later prophets, Moses is the first one. Latter prophets, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, speak specifically of generational curses. And Ezekiel says in chapter 18, but Jeremiah says in chapter 31, here's what he has to say.

Jeremiah 31 says, when that time comes, you won't hear the old proverb anymore. Parents ate the green apples, their children got the stomach ache. I love the message. No. Each person will pay for his own sin. You eat green apples, you're the one that gets sick. That's right. The time is coming when I will make a brand new covenant with Israel and Judah. It won't be a repeat of the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, even though I did my part as their master.

Once again, tremendous grace. Jeremiah is looking down the corridors of time, and 600 years down the road, he sees the Messiah coming. There's only one question you need to answer when you're dealing with generational curse. It's the same question Pontius Pilate asked the crowd. What shall we do with this man called Jesus the Messiah? That's a critical Question. Well, Ted, do you want to help me understand this all fits together? How do I put together Exodus, chapter 34 and Jeremiah? How do I put those two together? Let me answer the question theologically and then I'll answer it practically theologically. When you look at the greatest delineation of the gospel, which is the book of Romans, Paul's delineation in chapter five, chapter six, chapter seven, helps you to understand what the two fit together. He understands and he makes it very clear that the problem of sin and death is corporate, not individual. That's huge. How do the two fit together? Well, he puts it understandably said, for one man's sin entered the world and through that sin, death entered. So your family is really the issue. It's not all the skeletons you got in your closet. Your family goes much deeper back than you ever thought. Just go all the way back to your great, great, great, great, great, great granddaddy, Adam. Yeah, all the way back there. That's how far it goes back. And, and then one man's obedience will bring freedom, which is Christ. So the issue is Jesus Christ. That's theologically. The two have to fit together, the corporate and the individual. Salvation is always an individual decision. But the implications of sin are corporate. And the practical implication is this. They did some long term longitudinal studies of alcoholics. And alcoholics always run in families, there's no question about that. And look at sex addicts. 90% of sex addicts they have, when you look at their family history, they have at least one addict in their family. Close range to them, and then there's close by. That doesn't mean there's all sex addicts. It may be food addicts, workaholics, alcoholics. Fill in the blank. And 90% of sex addicts have someone in their family that's an addict. And 78% of sex addicts come from rigid disengaged homes. So what's the generational curse? It's the way you think it's communicated to your kids. Yeah. And new discoveries in epigenetics, which is a big fancy term. EPI is a Greek term which means around or over. Genetics is the gene. And so what you're talking about is they discovered that there's actually the DNA doesn't determine what your future is going to be because there's a protein sheath sleeve that fits around the DNA. And that protein sleeve epi, which means around or over. Talking about that, a protein sleeve determines which genes are actually firing which are going to respond to the environment. You're involved in. And here's a fascinating thing. The gene determines which genes will actually trigger, and it goes to the third or fourth generation. Interesting.

Yeah.

Scripture is exactly right.

You know, one of the things that I remember very vividly from the Conquer series, and I believe it's Tim Jennings who says it, that that idea that if you don't want to pass on curses, don't have children. And that idea of, you know, and there is an argument that it's like, it's my body, I can do what I want. And I love. He's just like, not unless you want to have kids. Because if you have kids, then it's going to get passed down. And I just hear it every time. You've seen the Conquer series. You know what clip I'm talking about, like your kids, your great grand. Your grandkids, your great grandkids. So. Yeah, I appreciate that.

He also said, though, that you can turn it off.

Yeah.

And you can turn it on.

Right, Totally.

So that's the key, is turning it off.

Get some hopefulness of it.

Yeah.

And I like what you're saying, Ted, because I think it's a principle that we work really hard at pure desire to underscore that when we come to faith in Christ, there are things that immediately are ours, that in a theological sense, in an eternal sense, our salvation, our freedom, the price that's been paid for us, that we have those right now before we've ever done a single thing other than receiving what Christ has done. But at the same time, that doesn't mean there is an automatic changing of our thought processes or a renewing of those epigenetic processes in our DNA. And so I think we're talking about this generational curse idea that that might be a balance that can help someone think through this is when it comes to curses on a theological level, immediately through Christ, those are broken. That we are set free from the power of the curse and of sin. But there's still a physical dynamic to our fallenness and our brokenness that Christ is still in the process of redeeming. And really that's kind of how I process it and think through it, that I have the power to break that physical curse over me because of what Christ has done. But I still have some work to do to enter into that, renewing my mind or breaking off the curses or as you said, Diane, turning the proper genes on to now pass on blessing to the next generation.

Yeah.

The way to see it theologically is what Paul has to say. Romans, chapter six. He says, hey, I'm a new creature in Christ. All things have passed away. All things are new. But in Romans 7, he says, what?

I keep doing what I don't want to do. Yeah, right.

How do you fit those two together? People say the answer is Romans chapter eight. Yeah, but Romans chapter eight is the longest chapter in the whole book of Romans, and it's very intense. And if you listen closely, you'll understand what's going on. He delays what's going on. He says, all creation is looking for the revelation of the sons and daughters of God standing on tiptoes. That means it's a process. So salvation is instantaneous, but transformation is a process.

You really have to go to Romans 12:2, the renewing of the mind, and.

You see the scientific, practical implications of the generational curses. Emory University took a bunch of mice, and they took the mice and they put an odor in their cage, and then they get an electrical shock. So they connected the odor with the shock. Guess when they had children or puppies. Pups, what they're called. Yeah. They had the same response, even though they never. Never heard that. I never heard, never received the shock or had felt the shock art. And smelled the order. So once they get the order in bam, they started having the same emotional reaction that their parents had. And Holocaust survivors, their grandkids had the same cortisol level.

That's crazy. That's crazy.

And it's nuts Is they took 1700 women who experienced the 911 experience, and the ones that had PTSD, their children have the same cortisol level. What happens is that in the uterus, the child is.

Communicated to them.

So the choices you make and habits you develop are going to be passed on and expressed in your kids. So I lean over to clients every time I say, listen, if you don't deal with this, I guarantee you'll be passed on to your kids and your grandkids. It's a given. And they may not turn out to be a sex addict like you are. There'll be a workaholic. There'll be a religious addict. There'll be some kind of addict. The way you think will be passed on your kids. You can't avoid it.

For Ted and I, I think the. Well, for me personally, the first time I recognized generational curses, when my daughter was 8 years old and she was being really critical and negative. She had made a commitment to Christ when she was five or six. So she was really critical of people that hadn't, but didn't put the two together. And so, you know, I said, where is that coming from? And I thought, oh, you know, my grandmother was really critical and negative, and my mom was really judgmental and negative. It must have skipped a generation. Of course, denial is great.

Yeah, it's great.

Well, it.

Isn't that the truth? I think maybe particularly in something like a generational curse, it's a lot easier to see through the window in someone else's life. I think as a pastor, the number of guys that sat in my office and, you know, they. They swore and promised they would never be like their dad, especially if they had a negative example. And they're like. And I would just look into life. You've. You are turning out in your determination not to be like him. You're so blind to how you're becoming just like him.

Exactly.

And it's a humbling reminder for all of us. This is an area, again, that speaks to our need for community, speaks to our need to be willing to listen to our spouses and to really say what, you know, what's in my family.

Right.

What's been happening in my dad and my grandpa, that is reoccurring in my life. And I might be blind to see it because it's just become part of my fabric of how I do life, but if I'm willing to see it, there's some unhealth that God could redeem there.

So let me ask you a quick question. Clarifying question. Because you talk about your daughter and talk about, like, your. Your grandma and your mom, and then you just mentioned your dad and your grandfather. So if I'm a man, do I get things from my mom as well? Like, is it because. I'm just saying the examples you're giving are gender specific. But are there still things that. If my mom was critical and I'm critical that that's still there.

It's a family system.

Got it.

So you're gonna pick up different things. I mean, there's some men in our counseling office that say, I'll never be like my mom. She was. Blah, blah, blah. She'd get angry off the page while he's really angry.

Yeah, Frequently will happen. You'll have emotional seduction of the child by the mother. There'll be emotional incest is taking place because dad's not there. So the child becomes a substitute that really messes with guys.

He becomes angry because he's become that emotional substitute.

Okay. So obviously, if you've been listening thus far, we're explaining a little bit of what they are and giving some personal examples, which is always really helpful. So let's say that we have a listener out there who sees that there's brokenness in their life and aren't sure if that's a generational curse or what it is. So how do we, how do we know we have a generational curse that is playing out in me and then also if you have children, is playing out in your kids.

Well, I think just recognizing, first of all, generational curses are fear. They're fear that we carry. And if your parents, like we've had so many couples where the husband says, I've always feared being poor because my parents were poor. And so sometimes you can pick up on attitudes and ways of thinking and fear.

What that does, that's saying what's happening is your limbic system is being trained by your six years of age.

So it's just a knee jerk reaction. This is how it's wired.

Right. So it's picked up in the limbic system. And that's why human experiences are crucial.

But the hard part is, first of all, recognizing and as you see patterns. And that's why we encourage you to look at your family of origin. And one of the things we encourage is the faces evaluation.

Yeah. This is one of the three ways that you break generational curses is just.

Discovering what is, what's happened in my family of origin. And as you take the faces, that really helped me break a lot of denial. Ted, who was raised by seven stepdads, alcoholic mom, he took the faces evaluation, which is an evaluation of how rigid and disengaged your family of origin is.

70% of addicts come rigid, disengaged homes.

So he took it. And of course he scored the one two, the bottom of the barrel, one two club, baby. Out of eight, he scored a one two. And so he says, well, here you take it. Yeah. And so as I took it, I thought, oh, my parents were married for 50 years, no alcohol. They had good Christian ethics, even though they weren't Christians. And guess what? I scored a 1 2.

I knew she'd do that.

And it was because my mom was such a perfection perfectionist. And I became a real pleaser and there was no emotional connection. So it's, it's how you're, it may look totally different on the outside and yet you can be similar with how you were raised and the thinking. Yeah. That you're thinking that it is rigid and disengaged.

So you're describing like a motivation, a fear, a motivational like fear that's pushing you and it may not so if my dad was, let's say he was an alcoholic, my motivational fear from growing up with that may manifest into something completely different. But that doesn't mean a generational curse isn't there.

Right, Right.

That that could still be.

In other words, sometimes the reaction can be look different, but it's similar because probably the alcoholism was created by certain fears and it was passed down, but you figured out other ways to survive rather than alcohol.

What you're talking about as a generational curse is programming the limbic system that sets you up, because 80% of decisions you make on a daily basis, you do it subconsciously. It's limbic system. You're not even thinking about, bam, bam, bam. That's programming you're setting up.

Yeah. One, as we've said on a lot of the podcasts, how that limbic system is in place by six years of age. So a lot of this is happening very early in life, before we're really having conscious memories of these things. But what it says to me is that willingness we all need to have to be an investigator of our own lives to have a thoughtful look at our past. And I think sometimes Christians are hesitant to do this because it feels like I'm dishonoring, you know, my father and mother, like I'm disobeying Scripture. But just to remind our listeners, we're not looking to cast blame. We're not looking to shift responsibility onto the generations before us, but we're looking to have understanding. We're looking to recognize patterns there. And so, you know, just asking questions of our parents, like, what was your relationship like with your dad? What do you remember about your grandparents when you were around them? What was their home like? How did they make you feel? And trying to listen with that discerning ear of what kind of messages did my parents learn and what did I likely learn? And I think as you have that approach of just. I'm just trying to understand the way my family impacted me, some of those things rise to the surface. And then that's where your spouse also can be very helpful to say, you know, in an argument, you never want to say, oh, you're just like your mom, or you're just like your dad.

Not a good idea, obviously.

Big.

No. Nosy. But in a meaningful conversation, to sit with your spouse and say, what do you recognize in my family that I'm just, you know, chip off the old block? Where do you see me repeating what I don't like about my parents? And. And they'll know it because it probably bugs them, but you need to give them that freedom to speak into it and know that you're not going to jump down their throat when they mention those things. But they can really help you see maybe what you're not seeing.

Right.

I think another powerful thing that we've found is when we have clients who need to confront their parents and say, I want a better relationship. I want an adult relationship. But I have to share what's happened to me because I felt emotionally disconnected from you. And we had one young pastor who took his dad out to coffee and he just read his letter. And as he read his letter, and you know, it's, thank you for all you've put into me. This was my struggle, but I really want a good relationship. So as he shared the letter, tears were coming down the dad's face and he said, I could have written that to my own dad.

And we're not blaming our parents, but what we're trying to do is reclaim what hell stole from us. Because there used to be perfect parents. They write books when they don't have kids. Once you have kids, you realize there are no perfect parents. Every one of you screwed up your kids.

I should have written a book before we had our kid. Got it too late.

Now. I love that he was willing to talk to his dad because what is he doing? Before, it was all secret. It was never talked about. He's beginning to break that generational curse by confronting it.

And that is so hard. And what's interesting to me is, even as you're describing it, that I feel like this is what's happened for me. Because as you get older, you get to see your parents are not as perfect as maybe thought they were. But I think that this is what I know to be true about Satan, is that he'll take scripture and twist it and make sure that you misunderstand the actual practical application of it. So, like, honor your parents, right? Children, obey your parents, for it'll be well for you. Right?

What does that mean?

Right?

Say they're always right or you're gonna die.

Well, but see, that's the thing is, like, you listened to that passage and you think I'm dishonoring my parents. If I'm like, hey, some things that you did really hurt me. I have responded this way because of that. And I wanna restore relationship. But I want you to see how things impacted me. That. And this is the thing. I've been deceived at times where I feel like Satan's, like, tweaking that to say no, you can't say something because that's dishonoring, that's disrespecting. You need to obey them, you need to honor them. And what I'm hearing you guys say is it's not that, that there are healthy ways to have conversations with your parents in a way that's not blaming them, but is identifying what happened. And when you identify it, then you can have conversations about it and move forward.

What the scripture basically is telling you is a significant impact your parents have on your life. You have to understand that's honor's honor. If you honor your parents, you realize they significantly trained you how to live life.

Right.

And you've got to identify those places where they're off and those places where you need to say, thank you, dad. But you've got to understand how significant your parents are to you. Yeah.

And seeing those patterns is honoring your parents. Because you're saying this had a huge impact, good or bad, right? It had a good. It had a huge impact.

Basically means.

Well, I think that's a principle that goes with this, that we should point out that if we're really looking to address generational curses in our life and in what we pass on to our kids, it's going to work best. If you are in a place of growth yourself, if you're trying to experience personal transformation, you're asking for help in, you know, dealing with other areas of your life versus if this is just kind of like a self help thing that you're going to do to make yourself feel better and you're not really humble to your own journey and what God's doing, you're probably not going to get very far. But if, if you're in a place, and that's why I think as we see here at Pure Desire, it's the couples that come in for counseling that are really leaning into those generational curses because they're seeing it in the story of their own addiction, their family of origin issues. And so I think I'd give that encouragement to anyone too. If you're really trying to understand where those generational curses at, you probably can't just go after this issue all by itself in isolation. It needs to be part of recognizing how you're wired, developing self awareness, facing reality in your life at all costs, being honest with the group, you know, so many of those things that happen.

So yeah, I think the greatest help for us was in that faces evaluation, which can be found at the end of Connected and also in the Betrayal and Beyond. I'm sure you'll make it available, too. But, you know, how do you measure if there's a change? In other words, we want to change, but how do you measure it? And so Ted and I realized we were first generation Christians. We didn't know how to parent. Both of us came from very dysfunctional families. And so what's your score?

What was your score?

A one two.

That's right.

Competitive sides coming out.

Yeah. So what we did is we looked at the 30 questions that led us to that one, too. And we said, okay, what are the things that we want to change? Like number two? Number two is I didn't feel like my opinions matter mattered. And so how do we go down those things that we experienced and changed it? So Ted and I for five years purposed to say, this is how we're going to do family.

We looked at where we scored low and we started changing.

Just do the opposite.

Yeah, well, and Lord, how do we do it? Because we never saw it done for us. And so we purposed to do that for five years. And our kids were in grade school and junior high when we started. So, you know, just to encourage parents, it's never too late wherever you start. And so then Nikki was headed for college and Brian was coming into high school. So we said, here, take this test on your family of origin.

That's scary.

So in five years, they both scored one point away from 70, which is 70. 80 is the top score, which is. And so we went in one generation in five years from a one two to a six, almost a seven. So it was measurable. But it's so good to see something measurable.

Yeah, for sure.

Whether it's the father's tears or your kids seeing you differently.

And we're going to talk more about what does this healing look like or that change. But before we jump to completely into that, maybe for a few of our listeners there's a bit of this. Yeah, but what about me? If they grew up in an adoptive family or they grew up without one of their parents, maybe they're feeling. Is it hopeless for me to know any generational curses because I don't even know the generations before me? What would you recommend to someone who's maybe been adopted or without a parent? Are they more influenced by whoever raised them or is it in the DNA that someone that maybe they don't know but contributed DNA to their life? You hear what I'm saying?

I'm both in. And I was adopted from birth, so I have no background who my parents are. I've Never met them, never known who they are. So what we're doing and just talking about directly applies to that question.

Yeah. When our son. I don't know, he did something rebellious. I don't even remember what it was.

Brian did something rebellious?

Yes. Can you believe.

If you're listening to this, Brian, shame on you.

Yes. No, no shame. But I'll never forget. Forget. And, you know, it was. It was not part of his character. And so Ted went in and said, you know, let's talk about this. And then he said, son, is there something that I'm doing that's contributing to this behavior? And they had a great talk. And. But what I saw in Ted was a humility. And, you know, when we first got married, he was very prideful, and he had to be in order to survive the military.

100%.

Right. Survive Vietnam. Right.

So if we're planning to go against another guy, you got to believe.

Yeah, for sure.

But it was kind of the fulfillment of the opposite of what I saw in him. In other words, a lot of our. The curses are something that we kind of project to protect ourselves.

Yeah.

Called projected personalities.

Yeah. And so for Ted, you know, that being prideful. I'm gonna live through this. Which was good in the military, but you get to seminary where everybody's holy.

And you sound like a sore thumb.

Yes. And I remember being with a couple. We just went out with another seminary couple, and Ted was being so prideful. I was literally sliding. Sliding under the seat, thinking, oh, I can't believe he's saying this. And, you know, that never stood out in the military, but, boy, in seminary, it was horrible. It was so prideful. So I was going to talk to him immediately when we got home, and the Lord said, no, I want you to go pray. So I started praying, and I said, God, Ted was so embarrassing. You've got to. I feel so embarrassed. You've got to change him. And God said, I'm sorry. I don't change people. Because you're embarrassed.

Yeah.

I said, oh, shucks. Well, you know, we are in seminary, and you're calling him to be a humble servant of the Lord. And Lord said, I do change people because of the calling that I have on them.

Yeah.

And so what I saw. And of course, you know, God started changing him through that.

We'll talk about that in a second.

But. But that's what I saw, is that humility. In other words, there was something. Something from his past that caused that curse of pride. And yet, because of the calling that God had on Him. It was like as Ted began to be obedient. And what did God have you do to be obedient to that?

Any wife who's struggling with their husband, you want to pray in light of not your embarrassment over them, but in light of their calling. That's crucial.

Good.

And so I started praying. And within three days he came.

I'm walking across commons in the seminary. God says, what do you got that flight jacket on for? I said, well, I can't afford jackets, you know, that's all I got. No, it's. You're afraid jacket.

Yeah.

In the comments they're going to. Yeah, there's a patch right here, says I'm a combat veteran over here. I serve in Vietnam, carrier pilot. Look how bad I am.

Yeah.

I was afraid because I was in all the seminary guys. These guys had 500 pound Bibles. I had a little green living Bible.

Yeah.

Curials Bible.

Right. Which again is a self protection which you were talking about. It's protecting the identity I think I have or that brings value.

Yeah. So I came home and I said, honey, God talk to me.

And I was thrilled. Gee, three days. And God already answered my prayer.

And God said, you can go out and buy some clothes. So I said, I gotta go buy some new clothes. Drive them riding my horse.

I should try that. Like, hey, babe, God told me to.

Go buy some new clothes.

Yeah. Not only a jacket to ride the motorcycle, but he needed new boots. And guess what that triggered in me. My parents always scrimped and, you know, money was really tight. And I thought, no way is this the answer to my prayer. Guess what? When God starts messing with your spouse, he starts messing with you. And this was a generational curse for me.

Yeah.

And so as. And the Lord said, this is the answer to your prayer. And he said, you know, I would have liked God to just, you know, just stop. Make him stop talking that way. Of course, like cutting off the dandelion. And God says, no, I'm going to the root and the root is pride. And as Ted began to shed all those things that were that protection, that humility, that calling came forth.

Yeah.

Well, Ted, we're glad you're a work in progress.

Yeah.

Appreciate those stories from your past. What I hear you saying back to the original question about if someone is adopted or doesn't know their parents. The message I hear you saying is work with what you've got, work with what you can see. And the truth is we've all got plenty there that I can see. There is something Here I'm not entirely sure. Maybe if it came from, you know, where in my family. But to work on that and not worry about the. Like in your story, Ted, the parents you didn't know, the dads you didn't know, but look at what you can see and allow God to work with you there and create that change.

That's crucial because I was raised in a schismatic movement, you know, Pentecostal craziness. And part of our teachers were Derek Prince, who was, you know, high holy guy. And he taught that you had to understand all the family curses and renounce them specifically. Yeah, I'm like, what I do, I don't.

Good luck.

Yeah. But the problem is you can't answer. You have to God to show what's really going on in your heart. You see what the problem is.

And here's what's interesting too, I think. And I think you guys, you know, I've. I've tiptoed around this a little bit, that you cannot do that without other people in your life. Because I think that what exactly like, they in a lot of ways act as mirror that I see my brokenness being played out in this relationship and therefore can identify what it is. And you can't do that by yourself.

Well, I love scripture because that's exactly what Peter was struggling with. Remember on the day of Pentecost? Well, first of all, that when Jesus, right before he was crucified, this little handmaiden caused Peter to cuss and deny Christ. And yet Christ says, you're a rock. This is your calling. But there must have been some kinds of insecurity in him because he was buckled by this handmaiden. And yet on the day of Pentecost, when he received the Holy Spirit, boom. All of a sudden, he stood in front of 3,000 people and he was able to declare. So it was like the Holy Spirit helps us to see who we really are. And yet with all of that. And let me just share with my daughter too, because this ties in. When I recognize that spirit of negative, critical spirit, I knew what to do first. You recognize that you repent. And so I went to my daughter, I said, honey, I'm sorry, I have passed this on to you, and we need to come against this because that's not who we are. And so we prayed, I repented. We held each other accountable. And you know what? It was broken for two weeks, at least two weeks.

It was wonderful. For two weeks right now.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden, that started coming back. That critical spirit And I said, God, I am trying really hard not to be critical. And he said, that's the problem. I don't give you grace to not be something. I give you grace to become who I've called you to be. And, like Ted was called to be a humble servant of the Lord. And so I said, well, God, who have you called me to be? And he took me to Galatians 5. 22. And that's a great place to look at the calling that God has. You know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. And it was like kindness just jumped out. And God says, I've called you to be a gracious woman of God.

That's very important. Fruit of the spirit is something the enemy can never counterfeit. Yeah. Gives the spirit he can.

Sure.

So he has no fruit.

That's great.

No peace, no patience. You can't drive him nuts just by being patient. You can drive him into counseling. That's good.

Yeah. So once I saw that, and I said, God, I don't know how to be gracious. I wasn't raised with that. And the Holy Spirit said, if you surrender this to me, when you come to those places, those forks in the road, you can go with the flesh, which is being critical and negative, or you can walk in the spirit, which is being gracious. That's what walking in the spirit is. It's a mindset of, am I going to do it according to God's spirit, or am I going to walk in the flesh? So think about Peter on the day of Pentecost. I mean, boom, he just had a miraculous anointing to speak to that many people. But what happened in Galatians, in Galatians, Paul talking about those people around us that can call us on it, Paul said to Peter, he said, what a hypocrite you are. When those Gentiles, those heavies. I mean, when the heavies came down from Jerusalem, James, the brother of Jesus and all those you moved away from the Gentiles you were eating with, and you pretended you weren't anywhere near them. And you even got Barnabas to do that with you. What happened to Peter all of a sudden from day of Pentecost and then now in Galatians, And I realized it in my own life when I saw it in Peter's life, what had happened to Peter right before that, he had a vision. And God says, you have a new calling, and your calling is to the Gentiles. And, you know, 10 years down the road after I started following the Lord with that kindness, all of A sudden boom, there it was again. I was being negative and critical and I said, God. And of course the enemy's saying, see, it only had a 10 year warranty.

Yeah, yeah.

Two weeks to 10 years.

Yeah. Expiration date on that.

But the Lord took me to Isaiah where it says that God stretches the borders of our tent. And God says, diane, you fortified this area as a teacher, as a mom, but I've just moved you into ministry. And guess what? Those insecurities, those generational curses are going to start to try to rise up because you don't know what to do in this new ministry path. Right. And Peter had a new ministry to the Gentiles. So all of a sudden he was faced with that insecurity and you know, where's that rock? So he had to reclaim it. And in Acts chapter 15, we see he did because he stands in front of the men in Jerusalem, the leaders in Jerusalem, and says, you know, we baptized the Gentiles and their hearts were cleansed like ours, therefore they need to be a part of the fold. So somewhere he refortified that area, came against whatever generational curse he was dealing with.

Yeah, well, it speaks to that. This is a process.

It is.

It's a journey. It's not just one time. We declare, which I think we want to do as Christians. Right. Like I just declare freedom over these curses. Like you said, Ted, in your background, name them and claim, and now I'm free. And, and there might be a sense of like relief from that, but. But there is a walking in this new way that we have to stay in. And that, that definitely is a process that occurs over time, which you were.

Starting to get to with Nikki and going and having that conversation. So let's, let's fl. Once you've identified it, whether that's through relationship or you're just starting to see patterns in your life, you've identified the curse. What does it look like to begin breaking them? What does that look like?

Okay, well, I had to ask for forgiveness even though it didn't start with me. And I didn't even know the source till years later I found out that my grandmother was a socialite in San Francisco and she married my grandfather and she had to move to San Bernardino, California. And she was really mad, she was really angry. All her life she disdained her in laws because she had to move away from. And that's where that critical spirit. Now maybe her parents have one. But in other words, I realized one. You know, I didn't even know the source until I started putting on.

But you have to own your part of it.

Exactly. So for me to go to Nikki and repent, and I said, we need to break the power of this curse. And so we renounce that spirit, that critical, negative, judgmental spirit.

We said, so talk me through that for a second. Because, like, again, I didn't grow up with that. Like, when you say renounce, what is that?

Like, tell me what that means, Jesus, I repent of the fact that I pass this on to my daughter.

Got it.

I didn't start it, but I passed it right on to her, not even realizing it. And so, God, I thank you that your blood covers that. And I renounce it in the name of Jesus. Now, the part that I missed and it kept coming back and I couldn't figure out why, was that I needed to reclaim what God had in mind when he created me, and it was to be a woman that was gracious. So the second part, once I realized that, I said, I rebuke this. I renounce it in the name of Jesus, and I receive that spirit of kindness and graciousness because that's who you called me to be. And God, I don't know how to walk in that, but I know your spirit does because that's a fruit of.

The spirit, which we talk about all the time in our ministry on the podcast. It's not just stopping a behavior, it's replacing it with a positive behavior, with walking in the spirit.

Right.

And really reclaiming. In other words, you know, I tell people, wait on the Lord. Ask him who he's called you to be.

Most important thing to do in your life is to see yourself the way God sees you.

Yeah.

That determines everything.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, Peter, you're a rock. Diane, you're a gracious woman of God. Ted, you're a humble servant of the Lord. Those are not natural ways to walk. They're supernatural. So we have to call upon the supernatural to help us to walk.

Sometimes the struggle is birthed out a real pain that's produced in your life, and you make a vow out of the pain, and that sets your course. And you've got to renounce that vow because it's a self curse. Classic one in my life. It showed up in a Conqueror series. They did a good job of it. It was the toughest scene they had to shoot. My mom was being beat by my stepfather, got tired of being here and decided he was going to drown her. Took her in the bathtub, threw her in, drowned her in the bathtub. I Was a young kid, about 120 pounds, wrinkling, wet. My stepfather's about 285, big guy. And he backhanded me when I went in to protect my mom. Knocked me down the hallway and he got on me real quick. I started to get up, and he was right on me and punched me in the face. Knocked me in my room. Blood's gushing out of my mouth. I started to get up. I still remember the floor. It was all yellow, linoleum floor. And he looked at me and pointed me and said, you get up, I'll kill you. I'm not stupid. I'm not getting up. But I made a vow in that moment. I never let another man treat me that way. That's why sports were not about sports. They were about beating on a man. And the military was not just about serving the country. It was about killing another man. That made me an angry man. For 40 years, I live with that curse I put on myself, and I announce it and get rid of it. Yeah. Sometimes you bring yourself into a curse dimension because of your pain. You get angry and you make a curse yourself. You got to break those suckers.

Yeah.

Yeah. We say, I will. I will never be hurt again. But we're closing ourselves off from relationship or I will never fail again. And we're closing ourselves off from trying or from putting ourselves in a risky kind of faith filled place. I, you know, I will never, I will never lose something again. And then we become controlling and protective. And I think we do that to ourselves more than we realize. And so just encouraging one another to listen to what, what are the messages we've said to ourselves? And then really surrendering those to God and allowing him to break that power over us also.

What are the messages that others have said over you? I'll never forget counseling a gal who said, my dad said I'd never make anything of myself. All I could do was sing. And I, you know, as we began to pray, God gave me a picture. And it was this, this curse that he had placed over her. She had a hard time keeping jobs, you know, I mean, it was literally like it was holding her back. And I saw out of heaven, it was like this hand coming down and this curse that had been placed over us over her. And I saw, like the Lord was just crumbling. It was, it was stone and now it was crumbling. And then I saw him put his banner of love over her rather than that curse. So having a new picture of who God sees us, that we're very capable just the Opposite of what maybe has been spoken over us or we have picked up and have been speaking to ourselves.

Summarize everything we said so far. How do you break the curse? We give you first step understanding. The enemy is coming at you in stealth mode. You can't see what he's doing. And you begin to take up the attitude your parents have, or be wounded and take a vow. You've got to see it, and then renounce it. There's two other steps we need to take, but we don't have time for this session to do it.

Yeah, we will do another episode. We will.

What's really powerful, too, is to realize that there's no God can work on the next generation, too. You know, when my granddaughter was about five, six years old, I asked my daughter, I said, honey, you know, what could we have done differently? You are parenting so well. I mean, they were miles ahead of us, you know, And I said, I am amazed at your parenting. And so what could I have done differently? And she pointed to. She didn't know it was number two on the faces evaluation, but she said, mom, at times I felt like my opinion didn't matter. And I went, oh, my gosh, that was one of the ones we were supposed to be working on. And I repented, but I. I didn't know what that looked like to her. Yeah. And so, you know, I said, God, show me. I, you know, I apologize because I know I must have done it, but I don't know what that looked like. And so we had a women's event shortly after that, and my daughter came in really disheveled, and I said, what's wrong? And she said, well, I was trying to put Ashley, my granddaughter, in child, and she just didn't want to go. So after the event, Ashley comes in waving this wonderful craft. And I thought, oh, a teachable moment. And so she comes running up and showing me this. I said, oh, Ashley, aren't you glad you went? You didn't want to go. And you went, and look how God blessed you. And I had this wonderful teachable moment. And I got home that night, and it was like God bringing out the hgtv. And, you know, big replay. And he started showing me. He said, ashley was trying to tell you something, and you were talking right over her. That's what you did with your daughter. You had all these wonderful teachable moments, and you weren't listening to her. And so I called my granddaughter and I said, ashley, let's get together. And I said, honey, you were trying to tell me Something the other night. What were you trying to tell me? And big tears came down her face. And she said, grammy, she said, I had never been in that room before. I'd never seen that teacher. And I didn't know any of the kids. And I was really scared. And I said, honey, I'm so sorry. I've been in places where I've been scared, too. And it was like I said, honey, if Grandma isn't listening to what you're saying, just stomp and say, grammy, listen. And she laughed, and we prayed, and I, you know, I apologized to her. And I saw God making up for what I lacked with my daughter. I got a second chance with that generational curse. Yeah.

I love the way you're speaking to that value of. It's. It's not just as you were talking about Trevor, like, only if we're going to have kids or you have little kids at home, like, even when our kids are grown or we have grandkids that we're still recognizing in us what God wants to work on and what we passed on. And I think the role that we have with our kids and grandkids, that as we recognize those things in us to come to them in humility. And just as we've discussed a lot around here, it's our vulnerability in those relationships where really, as a parent, a grandparent, the adult, we have a position of authority in their lives. But when we choose to come humbly and vulnerably to say, I see something in me where I've made a mistake or I've hurt you, I want your forgiveness. The way that empowers them, I think to walk out of those curses as well is really, really powerful. And so it's something that doesn't stop just because we're done having. Raising our kids. God can still use it in us and in them.

Yeah, it's really important. Your kids need to give you input. Nikki came to me after she finished most of the healing classes we had in the church. She said, dad, we need to have breakfast. We need to talk. And I went, oh, I'm in trouble. And she sat down and she said, dad, always felt like that was. You had to do what you wanted to do. That was the furthest thing from my mind. I'd never been around a daughter. I didn't know what to do. I just said, well, it's fine. Let's go do it. So I got to repent right then. But I really realized how deeply it wounded my daughter.

Yeah, you know, I've heard you tell that story before. And I think about it too, because. And the listeners who've listened for more than one episode know I have a two year old. And I have gotten to the point now where I've realized I have to look at the motivation of, of what I'm doing. Like I could be protecting my kid from running out in the street, but is it really coming from a controlling spirit? Is it coming from a place where it's actually selfishness that I don't want him to get hurt? Because then I feel like I'm in pain and that's like my fault that I allowed him. So there's just so many different ways that it manifests. But learning that if I'm telling my kid no, am I telling him no just because I'm not in the mood or it's selfishness or I just don't feel like being, being a present dad. Like I have to evaluate the motivations of what I'm doing. And that can happen without self awareness and that can't happen without community. And so that's just a, just for me personally, a practical way. I'm trying to identify those and I mean, it's like a slow burn. Like it's taken a while, but at least trying to identify. Brady, where am I already? When you're two years old, where am I already? Where is that already manifesting? And what is he picking up on? And that's what I appreciate about you guys, sharing so much about, you know, Brian and Nikki and your relationships and understanding that even though, you know you're generations ahead of me, there's still growth to be had when you get to your age and your stage that it's okay to keep needing growth. And that doesn't mean that growth doesn't happen on the way, but it doesn't. We don't ever arrive. We always got to be on the lookout for that stuff. And I appreciate that.

You're gonna eventually end up like Jesus. I still got a long ways to go.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Yeah.

One of the primary motivations that sets parents up for destructive behavior is a child's behavior reflects on the parent. They get insecure about who they are.

Right.

And they become about control you.

So I've seen that before. I do that, right? Yeah.

That's the most deadly one. You got to fight with everything you got.

Yeah.

Well, you guys, so much good content here. As we've already noted, we need to come back and go further into healing steps and, and the transformation that occurs. But as we look to Wrap up today. What's some of the final encouragement or just thoughts you'd like to leave listeners with as it comes to generational curses?

Well, first of all, understand there are no perfect parents. You're going to screw up at some point. Your kids. Yeah, yeah. Be humble.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Get input from them.

Yeah.

Yes.

Listen to them. Yeah. They'll tell you the truth.

Yeah, that's right.

Provide a safe place for them to communicate their hurts because you're going to hurt them. Be honest and repent.

Yeah.

Most important thing. Gosh.

We like. We like it.

I hate it, though.

Yeah.

So much.

How about you, Diane?

I just, I think, recognizing every stage of your life, who has God called you to be? In other words, re. Emphasize that. And what does that look like? Otherwise, the enemy is going to. He knows that fracture in our soul where we were open to unhealthy. And so, you know, just to be aware that every time we move forward, especially in ministry or as grandparents or whatever, he's going to be helping us to see how do I be that person you've called me to be here. Rather than walking in the flesh, which is my normal way of walking under the curse, I want to walk in the spirit. And I would encourage the listeners, if they have more questions, maybe if we do another round on this, that's send them in questions, because I'm sure it's.

Not an easy one.

It creates a lot of questions.

She mentioned something I want to emphasize. You don't have one prophetic promise. There's prophetic promises in different seasons in your life. It's really important you stay fresh.

Yeah.

The old prophetic promises are back there.

Yeah.

I'm a New prophetic promises right now. Yeah. God told me about Parkinson's. I'm going to preserve you, he says. I'm not going to heal you. I'm going to preserve you. So that means I got to fight. I got to understand.

Yeah.

God's doing something unique in my life right now. That's what I have to understand. Dealing with where you're at personally. You got to hear from God. You don't hear from God, you're in trouble.

Which, you know, and I. That this would be my only encouragement to add on is just that being in community and being in real, raw, open, honest community. That for me, is where I found success. When I'm isolating and moving away from community, that's where all that old stuff flares up. And when that flares up and no one's around to help me see it, it's really difficult because it's easy for me to ignore the Lord when I don't have him speaking through the people around me. If I'm isolating, I can just be gone. But if God's at work in the people that are around me, then he's going to talk to me in multiple ways. And so just for me, I would just say include. Include people in your life that are on that journey with you. And look, identify people in your life that are people who have identified those curses and are working on themselves because those are the people that you want to be around.

Yeah. And I would just reemphasize, you know, what you guys said in the middle of this episode, that our God is a God of redemption. And you scored, you know, a one or a two on that scale. And in one generation saw significant change. And I think for those that maybe are listening and are feeling the discouragement of the ways I've passed on curses or I've not been a very good parent or, you know, if we're willing to face the reality of wherever we're at, God can meet us there and write a new story. And in a lot of ways, the lower we start, the better the story is. And so look, in that hopefulness of maybe where I'm at right now, I'm not happy about my choices or my parenting or my past, but say God can redeem even this, and that's what he's in the business of. And the story he's going to write in your life is going to be one worth telling.

Yeah, I can't think of a better way to wrap it up. That was perfect. Ted, Diane, you guys, your vulnerability, your knowledge, your experience. And really, it is the calling, as you guys talked about, it's the calling God's put on your life. It's just a blessing to be around. So we appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening to the Pure Desire podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe, download and share. You can also rate and review our podcast. The more reviews we get, the easier it is for others to find the podcast. If you'd like to support the message of hope and healing in developing sexual integrity, go to PureDesire.org give. And for more information about the ministry, check out our website, PureDesire.org and you can also follow us on social mediauredesirepdmi. Once again, that's earedesirepdmi. We'll see you next time.

Sam.