115 - Love, Sex, and Dating

You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast, your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues.

Surprise. It's your favorite host, Ashley Jamison, and you're listening to episode 115 of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here with me is my other favorite host and probably your other favorite host, right? Heather Cole.

Yep. You're my favorite. Oh, it's so great to be here again. And really, it was really fun to do this episode with you. And I think that it's so needed that women just need to know that we're sexual beings, that we should get to talk about sex, that we don't have to have it all figured out. And especially when it comes to singleness and our dating relationships and what that's gonna look like, I think that it's really helpful to women.

Yeah. And this episode was one of my favorites because we love, love, love, love, love talking about sex, and especially to singles and divorced, because we've been there. We know how hard it is to be sexual people and to try to hold that integrity in our sex lives. This episode is not just for women, even though we use a lot of girl examples because we're girls, but it really is for men or women who are divorced or single that, you know, to have good boundaries and to be talking about it and to be having a plan and being intentional. These are tough questions, like, can I masturbate if I'm single? Those are all things that we get over and over and over. Or how do again after being divorced? Or how do I make sure I don't repeat, you know, the same. The same relationship that I just had or how far is too far sexually when we're dating. Those are all questions we get continually. And so we wanted to dedicate a whole episode just to cover those things.

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good when we can, you know, to have a safe space for women to talk about sex. And even when it comes to, you know, maybe questions that we didn't cover in this episode, let us know because we want to email Trevor. We want to help you. Well, we want to help you figure out what it's supposed to look like for you and your relationship and even just in your. In your sexual health. We're here to help.

Yeah, this. And this episode really came off the back of our women's conference, and I think that's why we ended up using a lot of women's examples. And in this, even though this episode is for men and women, because Heather and I We love to co teach. And so she does a session called Love, Sex and the Brain. And then I follow that up with. With Love, Sex and My Feelings. And so we were getting women at the conference that said, well, what about dating? And so here it is, Love, Sex and Dating. And so this is your episode for you women who wanted it.

Yep. Hope you enjoy it.

All right, let's hit the ground running here. My first question is the big one. Sexually, when you're dating, how far is too far? And this is a good one. Yeah, we were kind of talking about this in the car. That it's going to be very hard in this episode to give. We're not going to be able to give black and white answers again. Three people, parties in bed and pornography are on the no list. Right. But all the other stuff, it's going to be a lot of what your intentions are, how it makes you feel, where does it lead? And so with this one, we often get people who are dating and they're staying virgins till they're married, but they've crossed every other kind of line.

Right.

And so, you know, for one person, if you are, you know, having a makeout sesh you, that could cause you to go home and masturbate, and that's probably not good in your dating relationship. Others can have some kisses here and there and it. And it stays there and that's it. Some people wait till engagement to kiss. And so there's. There's all these lines. But some of the questions I would ask would be, what are your intentions? Like, are you doing things with the intention of. More, are you doing things with the intention of trying to push the other person? Are you doing things with the intention of trying to be what you think that person is wanting or fear of being rejected? Another one would be, where's your mind at? Are you keeping it to a kiss? And I just love this person. Are you going home and then fantasizing about it and obsessing about it? And then also, I think a good rule when dating is just to keep your hands off of private parts.

Yes.

Yeah. I just feel like that should be.

On the list of absolutes, because that.

Is the slippery slope.

It definitely is. And it is one of those things that, like, you're saying that. It's hard to say that, okay, this is absolutely the list. This is absolutely the no list. But it really is a lot easier to put a boundary in place and know where that boundary is and not cross it than to have crossed that boundary and try to move that Boundary line back super hard. And so if you kind of set the bar high, so to speak, and just decide that, okay, this is what I'm gonna. This is what my behavior is gonna be prior to marriage and kind of set that, then I think you're more likely to hold that line than you are to have set the bar low. You've crossed unhealthy boundaries, and then you're feeling like, okay, now I need to stop doing that. It's super hard.

Yeah. And I wouldn't see it as juvenile to sit down and make a dating plan, like, to make a boundary list of. We're not gonna spend the night in each other's houses. We're not gonna have hands be navigating down anywhere. We're going to. I remember that my sister and her husband had a really good, good rule about kissing, that they set a time on it. Because once it, like, went past this time, it's like you're pretty much, you know, do. You're. You're going places there. So have a time and. And just really understand that it's not all about saving intercourse for marriage. You can do all these other things that are just the same.

Yes.

And when we refer to sex, we're talking all of it. Oral sex.

Masturbation.

Masturbation. Yes. Like, all of that. And so really, that it's really about your heart altogether, not just one act. Yeah.

Yep. Definitely. So here's another question that we get a lot is that from women who are divorced, and they say that I'm divorced and not sure how to get back into the dating scene. I fear ending up in another bad relationship. And you. You know what? That it makes sense. It makes sense that if you're a woman who has been divorced, you kind of feel like there's something wrong with you and. Or that, you know, my marriage didn't work the first time. And so what are the chances that I'm going to get into a second marriage or a second relationship? That's not going to work. And we would really recommend that you get into group or you get into counseling, because it really is going to benefit you to have a healthy mindset and a healthy perspective before you engage in relationship with other. With men. And it's one of those things, too, that I know that sometimes, especially our clinical staff, they will recommend that. Okay. That you have, you know, a time of not dating where you just even take dating off the table and you go through group or you do counseling for a year and then see if you're in a Healthy place to put dating back on the table.

Yeah. And I get that question a lot with groups. You know, is it okay if I do Betrayal and beyond because I'm divorced and. Absolutely, yes, some of the questions are not going to apply to you because working towards reconciliation, but you could also, if you are planning on getting married again or being in the dating relationship, you can also think that's a good plan for going forward. But you would just process those things from back when they were happening when you were married. And it's so important. I mean, Heather, you and I have both been divorced. We know the pain of having to go through that, but we also know how much trauma that causes, no matter how good. If there could be a divorce, there's trauma, and there's a lot of stuff that you carry into your next relationship and into your parenting style and all of that. And so even if you're planning on never being married again, and you're thinking, well, he's out of my life. I'm never getting married again, so why go back and rehash all that? Please do. Because your brain needs it. And if you have kids, they need it, too.

Well, and it's one of those things, too, that you never know when you've experienced something like divorce, even just that trauma, when it's going to sneak up and show itself in your life. And I, after my divorce, I went through counseling, and I had been divorced for over 12 years. And I remember when it hit me that I was still in kind of this grieving state and grieving this marriage that I was, you know, I mean, that hadn't ended well, even though life is great now and I was in a great marriage now. But it's one of those things that you just don't know how it's going to impact your life and really how much healthier you can be if you go back and deal with those things.

For sure. I was like crazy stalker lady when I married John.

I know this about you.

He knows. But I was so crazy because. Because of the trust issues I've had from all the previous relationships in my previous marriage that I. I started my new marriage off totally accusing John with my words and with my actions all the time, and that's not good. Nobody wants to be, you know, suffering the consequences of a previous bad relationship. So process that. And then as far as, like, getting into the field, if I could give encouragement, don't try to meet people at the bars. That's. That's not a good place. I mean, although sometimes that does work out. Hashtag, John, I love you, but you really have to go to the places where there are people that are in healthy mindsets. And so if you enjoy biking, join a bike club. If you enjoy doing games, join one of those game things in somebody's basement.

Okay, above ground would be better, but.

You know what I mean. Get involved in the activities where you're going to find people who like doing the things you do. One of a good way is friends having friends who know both of you, introduce you. There's lots of different areas that are not sketchy to meet people well.

And the really, the real issue is to get healthy. Get healthy first before you put yourself back out there because you will know yourself better and you'll be able to make wiser choices in future relationships.

Oh, you'll have superpowers for seeing red flags. The ones you didn't see the first time.

Yes.

You'll have x ray vision for those.

Yep.

If you go through group.

Yeah, I know.

Okay, next question. If masturbation is keeping me from sleeping with men, how is it wrong? This is a really good question.

This is a good question.

I mean, when you compare, you know, like if I, you know, if I'm not gonna rob the bank and I'm just gonna steal out of my mom's wallet, like, how is that bad? Right? You put sin on a hierarchy. But no, and we talked about this in the previous episode, that really, masturbation changes your brain.

Yeah.

And I can probably say that most of the women, women who enjoy sex that have hard time reaching orgasm with their spouse, it's because they've, they know how to do it. And same with men, that, yeah. If you're not being relational with people and you're just doing self pleasure, then it's very hard to retrain your brain to have a good sexual experience with somebody because you know that you can do it this way and reach it. And so you're already setting your brain up to be stimulated in one way. And if you do want to have a healthy sex life with your future spouse, then you've got to stop creating those really deep ruts in your brain right now with how you're sexually pleasing yourself.

Right. Well, and it really comes down to the fact too that when somebody has been masturbating and decides that they're not going to do that anymore, their brain still is going to want that dopamine hit. And so they need to be super intentional about creating other things that. Okay, when I feel like I want to masturbate or I start creating that ritual that, that ends in masturbation, that I'm going to do something different and make yourself a list of 10 things. And sometimes people think, well, I don't think I could make a list of 10 things. But I'll tell you, you have to have options if you're going to follow through and be successful. And they have to be things that are realistic. You know, that I'm going to call a friend or I'm going to go for a walk, or I'm going to, you know, something that's going to get you out of that, that environment. But maybe it's that I'm going to exercise and stimulate dopamine in my brain in a healthy way or just retraining your brain. But you have to be intentional and you have to give yourself options.

Yeah, I like the list idea because, you know, if it's 4 o' clock in the morning, that's probably not a good time to go on a walk.

Right.

But you could maybe get up and for me it'd be like, oh, I can paint my nails and, you know, whatever, or I can go get on the treadmill for 20 minutes. I don't have a treadmill and I don't like running. But if I had one, that could be on my list. But yeah, it's a good, good idea to have a list. And what you even said, where if they take away masturbation, then their brain's gonna want something else. That's so true. And there's so many women, and I'm speaking from experience, that when you stop a habit like masturbating, your brain can retrain and it's gonna be hard at first. It's gonna feel like I have to live the rest of my life just resisting this temptation. It's gonna be awful. I feel like I'm just constantly battling this. But your brain will adapt. And then one day you'll realize, I went all day without even thinking about masturbating. And that gives you a little bit of tract going forward that your brain can train. And then you'll be doing other things where you're getting good dopamine and that feels good. And that's what you decide to do in your downtime instead of something that's gonna probably hinder your future relationship.

Yeah, and this is one thing too, that you have to just take it one day at a time, one step at a time. Because it's really, I mean, masturbation does really powerful things in our brain. And so it's making sure that you don't set a goal that, okay, I'm gonna go all week. It's like, okay, I'm gonna go today without masturbating and then I will take on tomorrow. Tom. So you don't want to be, you want to just set yourself up to be successful in the goals that you create.

Yeah. And masturbation as a single, that's a really, that's like a big struggle. That's a very, very big struggle. And like, you know, like you were saying with the boundaries when you've already been married and you've already been used to having sex and you've already, you know, and then you go without or it's very hard as a single person, especially because our marriage age is like so much older now. Like Bible times it was, you know, you're 15 and you're married. That's like right when you're starting to want things, you know, so. And now we have like this 10 year period of like living in exile where, you know, our bodies are ready for sex but we're not married or, and our brains are not ready yet, you know, and so we have to figure out what to do in there and have good plans and probably some recovery action plan type thing too, you know, where you could print that and you know, if there's certain hours of the days that it's more of a temptation, that'd be a good idea to have that list and do something off of there and. Yeah, so maybe print a recovery action plan and put some steps in place.

Yeah. And then have a friend who can help you stay accountable with your plan.

That's just such good advice.

Okay, so here's another question that we hear a lot. When is the right time to discuss my sexual history with my boyfriend? And this one, I would love to say that there's an absolute, you know, date number three, but there isn't because it depends on, you know, your age and how much dating experience that you have and really what does your sexual history look like? Those are all going to be factors that are going to influence this question. And it really looks like, you know, where's the relationship headed? I think that that's an important thing. And Ashley, like you were saying, our marriage age is getting, you know, people are waiting to get married, they're older. And so, you know, if you're 27 or 30 years old, it might be a conversation that you have sooner than later, Whereas if you're 20, nothing, then, you know, you might not have that much sexual history. But it's. It's one of those things that. That it's going to depend on, you know, where you're at in the relationship, your age, but then also I think in your health. I think that that plays a. Plays a role, because I think that the healthier you are, the more organically the conversation is going to happen. Even if it means that, okay, I'm at this stage of recovery. Yeah, something like that.

Yeah. And it is important to definitely, as your relationship progresses and it's looking really serious, that there's a full disclosure. I mean, that includes the same kind of full disclosure we do in group, that. When did your history start? You know, how old were you when you first started doing things? You don't need to give all the details, but your spouse needs to know. Because if you carry that shame into your marriage of like, oh, my goodness, if my spouse ever knew, and that's what happened with John and I, is that he told me parts of his history, but not all of it. And so then four months into our marriage, when I found out everything, I nearly had a panic attack. I thought I married the boogeyman. I mean, because he didn't tell me everything. And even though it didn't happen in our marriage, I was like, I didn't even know that about you. What else are you hiding? And it was like staggered disclosure. So STDs, pregnancies, all of that needs to come out before marriage. But not on date one.

Right.

Unless you're super cool like me and John. But again, right. Our life. We had both been divorced, already had kids. It's like, we're not wasting time. Here's a hundred questions. Answer them.

Yes. Not interrogation style.

Right. But maybe. And maybe it can even be a progression, you know, like after a couple months, you're starting to get serious. You can say, okay, you know, I really do need to share that I'm not a virgin anymore, but those are my intentions going forward. Or that I've struggled with some things in the past. And then, you know, maybe as the relationship progresses, you get a little bit more detailed, and it might just happen organically in a conversation. And if you're secure and you've already talked to other people, like healthy people or been through group, it's going to come out more organically.

Yep, definitely. Well, and especially because if you're in group and you've kind of dealt with some of these things, then you still don't have that shame holding you captive, basically, from being vulnerable with this new relationship.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Such a danger to go into a marriage and feel like you. You need to hold pieces back.

Yeah.

Because the longer you are in it, the harder it is to go back and be honest about it.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right, let's see. My next question says, it seems like all men struggle with sex or porn. How do I find a guy who won't hurt me?

I know, right? The million dollar question.

I remember when this came out with John because I felt like, okay, after all these guys that, like, it didn't work out with. Because I was a love addict. We all know that. And then I finally married this Christian guy, and then when I found out he struggled, too. I'm like, they're all bad. Every single one of them. They're all bad. And that actually was a good revelation for me because I did realize to some extent, we are all bad. We all have issues. If it's not porn, it could be something else. But we are sinners married to sinners. We all struggle. And that's really the mindset to have, is that you're going to go into a marriage and your person is going to hurt you and you are going to hurt them. But having the tools and being healthy, which means I know my issues. I'm working on them. These are my plans. This is what I've done. That's what health looks like. It's not. Here's my list of things I've never done, and here's my list of things I've done.

Right.

That it's really about what you're doing with it. And honestly, I would rather have somebody who knows their stuff and has a plan and has worked with it because there's no guarantee that you get married and stuff doesn't come up. But if you already have that, I guess that, like, recovery work ethic that you're going to always be honest with your spouse, you're going to tackle issues together, you're going to never just let your marriage stay stagnant. That's really what you want to look for in a marriage.

Yeah.

Well.

And especially when we have, like, some of the statistics, some of the research right now is showing that women are, you know, there's increase in women who are using porn and masturbation and they have other sexual history, which could also be something that they don't want to disclose to a new relationship because they don't want to be judged or lose the relationship. And so it really does go both ways. I mean, it's sad when pornography hurts people, you know, because it does it seems like it always hurts somebody, not just ourselves, but it hurts the people that we love or want to be in relationship with. And it just is a super hard topic to have, conversation to have. But again, if you've been in group and you know that, okay, I'm pursuing this area of health, and then you get into a relationship, you can even say, you know, I know that a lot of people struggle in this way, and I know that this is a trigger of mine and I'm working on it.

Right.

You know, because don't expect that you're not going to be triggered by it, because you will be.

Right.

Because you have woundedness attached to it. So. But it just is being healthy and having that awareness to recognize that, okay, this is definitely one of my triggers. And I'm going to try not to freak out and, you know, but having those conversations from a healthy place is going to be the best way.

Yeah. And it seems like it'd be almost a prison to go into a marriage pretending you have everything all together because then you have to just struggle secretly. You can't be honest with your boyfriend or girlfriend. And you remember all those cute young girls that we meet at conferences, like, my boyfriend's in a Seven Pillars group, and do you think I should get in a group and should I even be thinking about marrying him? And it's like, yes, he brought you to this conference. He's in Fruit. You got a good one. Porn or not? Yes. Yeah, it's so. It's good that they're honest.

Yeah, that one is so good. But again, it's one of those things that talk with people, talk with other women about it so that you have support so that you know how to handle this if it ends up being a situation in your relationship.

Yeah.

So here's another question that we hear is, all of my friends are having sex. I'm afraid that if I'm not sexual, no guy will want to date me. And I think that that is a really interesting question. I think that that's awesome for the woman who feels this way, really, when it comes down to it, it's a sad testament of our society today that. That there's so much truth behind it. But I think that if you have chosen to, you know, stay a virgin until you get married, and that's one of your core values, don't give it up. You know, despite what our society and culture is telling us, it's one of those things that you will love giving that to your spouse. And I know that it's Hard. The peer pressure of being a virgin today is to super hard. But I think stick with it. If that's one of your convictions, then you're gonna find a guy who's going to love that about you.

Yeah. And, and even like me, I had had sex at a young age. And you know, after being raped then I started having sex. I just found this power in it. But when I recommitted my life to Christ and decided I do want to save myself again for my spouse, I was so made fun of. And, and some of the guys I dated, one of them even said, well, we already know that you've had sex and you won't even kiss me. And it was like I was shamed because I wanted to. I was already kind of known as this slut. And then that was my expectation, you know. And so really it's, it's hard because most, like you're saying it's sad. Most teenagers and single 20s, 30s, 40s, they're having sex. And so you really are the weird one. You really are. You really are like the minority. And so it, it really does come down to you may lose that person. But if right from the get go, they can't value what you're convicted about, that's not a good start to a relationship anyways.

Right.

And that's so hard because when you have a super, super hot guy and you want to have sex with him, you're just like, can we just wait till we're married? I mean, you're like, well, why can't we just bend the rules? But that's not a good way to start.

No. And then you are totally giving in to what the world says that it should look like or your relationship would look like instead of you holding on to your personal values.

Yeah. And how many people know physical attraction, it fades with personality. You can marry the hottest person or be dating the hottest person, and as soon as the relationship starts to get rocky, all of a sudden they look so ugly.

Yes.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the right person, they'll value that, you value that. You know what I mean? They will appreciate that you have this core belief and this core value for yourself because it really is saying that you've decided that you're worth it, that you're worth waiting for the perfect guy.

That's so confident and attractive. I think that's attractive.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, I love this next question. If we don't have sex before we're married, how will you know we are compatible? This is so society's question, right? You gotta test drive the car before you buy it. And that is just a big old fat lie. Because we hear so much emphasis on the honeymoon night that it's like, the big night. And there's all this pressure to know what to do to, you know. I think that's why some people look at porn and they're. They're nervous that they're gonna, like, let their spouse down on this big night. And really, if you can think about marriage as this is the starting point to us being able to grow together, to figure it out, to explore. I mean, maybe even on the honeymoon night, you're tired and you don't have sex, but you're like, okay, this is the start to, like, our forever journey. We have all this time to have fun and explore. And when you can do that from the beginning in an honest way, instead of, like, trying to act like a rock star and act like you have it all together, then you're starting off on, like, a lie. And it's harder to get out of that. Like, actually. And we have had this happen so many times with women. I have not been having good sex for the last 10 years, and I've been faking orgasm the whole time. I mean, that's like, such a blow. But that really does happen all the time. Because women go into marriages thinking they have to have it all together, right? And so it's the same thing with this. Like, guess what? Your sex on the first night is probably not going to be that great, right? And that's okay because you have this whole lifetime to explore sexuality with your spouse. And that's the fun part, is that you get to play around and figure it out together, right?

And it's one of those things, too, that, I mean, and research, even secular research, shows that couples who, you know, cohabitate or they have this relationship where they're having sex before marriage, their relationship is more likely to fail than people who wait. And that's even from secular research. And so, I mean, if they even know that your relationship is going to be better and it's going to be more sustainable if you wait to have sex till you're married, then that's awesome, right? But it's hard.

Yeah. And you have less to compare it to. I mean, if you're saving yourselves for each other or recommitted, if you've already, you know, had sex, right, Then it's all gonna be fun. You're gonna figure it out, because it's all gonna be new and it's all gonna be exciting. And if something doesn't work, you can be like, that didn't work. Yeah, but you don't need to try it out first. Right.

And it is that idea, too, that the compatibility piece. No one is compatible the first time.

Okay, but can you explain a little bit about, like, the physical compatibility? Because I know that's a big thing for people, and it's really like a myth. Like, you know, that even that it's so much of your brain. Like, how you fit together is really. Because it's about feelings and what you're thinking and how much you love this person or how attracted. All of that can grow and change with your brain as well. It's not just piecing the pieces together, if you know what I mean. Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Well.

And it's one of the things that we say this a lot at pure desire, and I hear you say it a lot, that emotional health and emotional intimacy has to proceed. Physical intimacy. And so that's the greatest part of even the relationship, the dating relationship and even the engagement time is that you are emotionally growing together and that you're having these conversations and you're talking about different things that is contributing to your emotional health. But then when you get to the point where, you know you're married and now you want to explore for the first time your sexual relationship, things are gonna fit better than you think they fit. You know, it's one of those things that. Because you've kind of trained your brain a little bit to have a positive. A positive viewpoint toward what your physical relationship is gonna be like, and so then it's gonna help when it actually comes time to do it.

It's amazing, for sure.

Yeah.

Like when John does the dishes and he puts the kids to bed and he's doing the yard and he's cooking me dinner, it's like he could breathe on me, and I'm like, oh, I'm gone. Like that. I mean. Right. Because you're building up emotionally first, and then it doesn't take much after that. That's where foreplay comes in.

Yes.

So there's all kinds of things that, you know, call us and we'll help you through it if you're in that situation.

Absolutely. So here's another question. I watch porn in order to learn what to do when I'm married. What are some other ways to learn without using porn? You know, this is such a great question, because we have a lot of young women who think that they have to be basically porn read before they get married or before they get into a relationship because they think that. That men expect what they see in porn. And that is a myth. That is one of those things that. That especially when we see that so much porn today is. Is degrading to women and violence. Yep. And so this is a great question, because there are other ways that you can figure out what. What does sexuality look like prior to getting married? And even what does it look like in marriage? I think one of the best things that you can do is to be in group, really to be in group with other women where you can ask conversation or have conversations about these type of questions. What's a real expectation? What is something that porn has created that is an unrealistic expectation for women in marriage? And that's always. I think a really good place to start is talking with other women.

Yeah, I agree. Talking with other women and just getting really comfortable with your own sexuality, because so much of it is that you're. It's uncomfortable. You're afraid to talk. You're afraid to say, I don't like that. You're afraid to say, that doesn't work. You're afraid to say, do more of this. And, and. And there are women who want to have a better sex life, but they're just. They feel silly. They feel embarrassed. They don't want to do those things. And so the more you talk about it, the more you're in healthy conversation. We have tons of podcasts that are helpful, and there's lots of books out there, too. There's lots of bad books, but there's also lots of good books. And so just educating yourself without setting up these false expectations, because more often than not, if you're watching something like porn or romantic movies to try to imitate that, you're gonna feel like a fraud, you're gonna feel silly, and then you're going to compare yourself to that person that. That's really who your spouse wants, and you're trying to emulate that, and it really isn't good. It just ends up causing a lot of shame and comparison. And you, more often than not, even you're looking at your own body going, that is not what I look like. And that's nice. That's not how you should be. You should be going, you should be doing a little, like, Rocky Balboa pep talk in the bathroom, being like, I'm so sexy. I'm so fly. I'm so confident. And then go out there and own it. Right. Totally start in your brain. Okay, next question. How can I talk with my fiance about sexual Sexual expectations without it triggering us. Is it okay to talk about sex before marriage? I think this is so good. Couples, boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance, they need to be doing this. And one of the things I would say is get a good resource. Yeah, we're gonna sound like broken records, but we totally believe that. Get comfortable talking about it. Know what? You may not know everything going in because you haven't, you know, you're not having sex. Maybe, you know, hopefully you're not having sex. And so you may not know everything, but you can talk about the basics. Like, you know, what are your expectations? Or, you know, on our honeymoon, you know, if it's, you know, are we gonna just explore or, you know, you can talk about things, but I would suggest that you be in separate buildings. Yes. Like, not together, maybe on the phone, you know, like, get some good resources to work through, like the seven pillars. Make sure that your own sex, sexual history and trauma is worked through. And then get some couples books and talk about some of the questions that maybe come up. And they're going to be different for each person. You're going to have different questions. But. But have other people that you can bounce those off of, probably married people that can give you good, solid advice that are healthy married people. And then when you're talking about it, I really suggest either being in a public area or separate houses because. Yes, because so you're not triggered. You're not triggered. And even if you are triggered, you can't act it out because you're not together. You know, so well.

And I think that this is one of those things where having conversations with other healthy women is so important, because I know that. I don't know, just stuff like, okay, do we need some kind of lubricant? I mean, is it going to. Those are legit questions. Is it. Is sex gonna hurt? Is it going to, you know, I mean, I think that those are questions that every woman wants to know the answer to, but they're afraid to ask. And so if you have somebody who's even a little bit older than you, a married woman that you can, you know, that will mentor you in this area, kind of in a premarital counseling, then when you get that legit information, then you tell your fiance and you say, this is what I've learned. And so I want to make sure that we have this and, you know, so you're having a healthy conversation about it before you get married.

Yes. And safe, healthy, same gender mentors.

Yes.

I've been with friends where we do talk about sex. Regularly. And, you know, and then there's been times where somebody said, I don't know how to have an orgasm during sex. And because we're women and we're comfortable about it and we're talking about it in a respectful way, it's not. I mean, this is part of life. We were able to say, well, try this. Try this. Talk to yourself this way. Try this lighting. Try this position. And bam. Happened, you know, and so you got to be able to have that group, because just like anything else, finances, schooling, parenting, all these areas that are really stressful and are a huge part of our life, you have to have people that you can talk about it with.

And I think that for women, too, the more that you can learn about your sexuality and. And really, what. Like, for women, more about their bodies and. And what is stimulating to women. I think that that is super helpful, because I know sometimes women will get into marriage and they just think, oh, my husband will show me what to do. And it's like, don't use that rule. That's not a good rule.

Yeah. What's stimulative might not stimulate you.

Right. And so it's one of those things that you need to do a little bit of research and know what to expect for a woman's body and how that's going to be different than, you know, a guy's body and work through those things, too.

Right? Yeah. Because not only physically are women different, but emotionally. Yeah, I know. What was it like? A couple weeks ago, I posted a picture on Facebook of my boys cleaning the kitchen. And I'm like, this is so sexy. And they're like, mom, how is cleaning sexy? And I'm like, you'll get it when you're older.

I know some woman's gonna really love this about you.

You'll understand when you're older what sexy is.

That's awesome. So what are some practical boundaries to keep me from going too far with my boyfriend? And we've talked a little bit about this. I think that one of the major things to remember is that it's a lot easier to enforce a boundary that's in place than to try and create a new boundary when you've done something that maybe you want to take back. And so I think that when it comes to boundaries, that it's really just important to remember why you have those boundaries and what you are protecting yourself from. I think that's super important. And be intentional with your boundaries, you know, and don't overwhelm yourself with boundaries, but maybe just Say that, okay, I'm gonna, if I'm in a dating relationship, that I'm gonna make sure that I'm home by 10 o', clock, that I'm gonna have a self imposed curfew, that we're not gonna be out parked in a car somewhere or that we're not gonna be anywhere after dark or that.

Well, people get murdered that way too.

Exactly. And things like that. I am. And this is true of especially young adults who live in their own space, they don't live with their parents anymore. But it's like, okay, my boyfriend can't be here after this time or my boyfriend and can't be here. You know what I mean?

Just setting those, setting if it's too much for you.

Yep, yep, absolutely. And so it's just really knowing you and knowing what you're comfortable with and really valuing yourself enough to have healthy boundaries in place that is going to protect your relationship.

Yeah, I think that's good. And to not be afraid of changing the boundaries if you need to. If you find that maybe having your boyfriend over past 10 is too much, then you don't do that. But then maybe he's over at 7 and it goes too far. And so maybe the boundary is. Now we probably shouldn't be at my place.

Right.

If this, if holding this, you know, sexual boundary or you know, what your value is important to you, then, then you want to put that really high on a pedestal and like you said, have high fences that you can't jump over.

Right. Well, and it's one of those things too that we don't ever. Necessarily. Well, we don't know what we don't know. And so you might think that it's harmless that my boyfriend's gonna be here and we're gonna watch some chick movie or something. But then there's this make out scene and you start making out and pretty soon it's like, oh, this is, here's a boundary, here comes a boundary. What am I gonna do? And so then you might have to add it to your list that okay, we can't watch movies together or we can't watch this type of movie together and just because it's again, maybe creating a new boundary that you didn't think was gonna be an issue. But it's like, okay, this is starting to be an issue. We need to set up a boundary here.

Yeah, I think that's good. You might need to have other people, you might need to avoid certain areas. It's really figure out first what your values are. And then build the boundaries around that. And the three circles exercise would probably be really good for that. Even just like a temporary. Like, if this is our value, then these are the areas where we could either go either way. Sometimes we make a good choice, sometimes we don't. So let's avoid those areas altogether and just do the ones in the outer circle that keep us on the path of what we want for our relationship.

Yeah, that is so good.

All right, well, so some final encouragements close out the show, I think, for me would be sit down. If you're a single person, whether you're divorced, you're a teenager, whatever, wherever you are at in your singlehood, sit down and maybe write some goals. Like, what do you see for your future relationship? What boundaries would you like to hold to when you're dating? And then create a plan around that. Even if you're not dating yet. Create it now, while it's fresh, and then talk to somebody else about that. Have somebody that you can talk regularly with about where you're at emotionally, physically, spiritually, sexually, that you have somebody that's kind of checking in on you too, that you trust.

Yeah, that is so good. And, you know, we've talked about it a little bit, but if you've crossed a boundary or you have an unhealthy sexual history and. And that is really just gnawing at you and weighting you down and keeping you out of relationship with God and others, deal with that. Get into group, get into counseling, do something that is going to help you to be healthy, to help you be the best version of yourself. So that then when you get into a dating relationship or even if you are in a relationship, that it's going to help the relationship. I mean, it's one of the best things that. That we can do is to get healthy, to minimize the power that our past has over us because we're pursuing health, and then it's going to change your relationship. It's amazing. That would be my encouragement.

So good. Nothing is unredeemable.

That's right.

Start fresh from right now, from today. That's so good. Obviously you enjoyed this episode probably more because it was Heather and I instead of those other guys. Right, Girls takeover.

Yes.

So let Trevor know if you want the girls to take over again and you want us to come back and just keep sending in the lots of emails and spams and, you know, this creaky wheel gets the oil. Right? Okay, we'll come back.

He loves that.

Regardless, that stuff we covered today will really help you identify and create probably some really healthy habits if you're intentional about it. When it comes to love and sex and dating, we all have to have a plan. We all need to have boundaries, and we all need to know what we're doing, right? Heather, you're my favorite.

I know, I know, right?

Thanks for being here with me.

Oh, you're welcome. You're my favorite, too.

Thank you for listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and want to keep up with the podcast, please subscribe, download and share. You can also rate and review our podcast. The more reviews we get, the easier it is for others to find the podcast. If you'd like to support the message of hope and healing in developing sexual integrity, go to PureDesire.org give and for more information about the ministry, check out our website, PureDesire.org and you can also follow us on social media at Pure Desire PDMI. Once again, that's EaredesirePDMI. We'll see you next time.