116 - Myth Busters: Sexual Addiction Is About Sex

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You're listening to the Pure Desire podcast. Your safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. Battling sexual brokenness and the effects it brings is not something that can be done alone. Pure Desire groups exist to be your safe place to find freedom, recovery, and healing from sexual brokenness, betrayal, and relationship issues. Whether you or someone you love is struggling or you've experienced betrayal, there is a group for you. Pure Desire is here to give you the roadmap to healing. To find a group online or in your area, visit PureDesire.org groups. Yo, yo, yo. This is your host, Trevor Windsor, and you are listening to episode 116 of the Pure Desire Podcast. Here with me is my co host, as always, Nicholas J. Stumbo.

I am inevitable.

Okay, so there are gonna be listeners out there who don't know what that is.

Yes. If you're not in the Marvel universe, you won't pick up on that. Being from Avengers, Endgame, and oh, my gosh, Thanos is probably most famous line from that movie. If you are Iron man, saying, I am Iron man. That's like my favorite part of the movie.

Spoiler alert. So if you are not in the Marvel, like, universe, maybe you should rethink your life decisions and. And who you spend time with. No. So great, great movies. Love that great intro.

That's a great one. I really tried to think about how that could relate to the podcast, and I can't come up with anything.

It doesn't have to. This is the fun part of the episode for us where we don't have to be as serious, but we did talk about something that is serious. We talked about really. We started a new series called mythbusters. And the first one that we talked about was that sexual addiction is about sex.

Yeah. And I imagine there may be some listeners that even heard the title and may tweaked them a little bit. They're like, wait a minute. Or they feel like now we're making an excuse. And I really hope as you listen to the episode, you get what we're saying here, because it really is kind of one of those pivotal moments, I think, for a lot of people's journey when they see there's so much more going on here. And I think in this episode, it becomes clear what a lot of those factors are.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's a really insightful episode with information and some story and really just about our recovery too. So we sat down with Heather who is our content manager, but so much more than that. So we just hope that you enjoy the episode. Heather, thanks for being with us today.

Thanks. Glad to be back again.

We are glad to have you back.

Maybe we should say thanks for letting us join you, because that's probably true. You did a couple of episodes without us. Thanks for letting us back on the show.

That was super fun.

Almost too fun. Almost too fun.

I knew it. I knew it.

So today we're starting a new series called Mythbusters. Yes, we have stolen that title, but that's not what's important. What's important is what we're actually talking about today, which is the myth that sexual addiction is about sex. So let's just jump right in. It's natural to assume, especially just with the nature of sexual addiction, that it is all about sex, desiring sex, wanting sex, or orgasm. Why do we assume that sexual addiction is all about sex?

So, I mean, the no brainer part of me says that it's in the name, that it's because the title says sex addiction, which would make you think that, that the individual is addicted to sex. Because a lot of times that's the way we view everything when it comes to addictive behaviors, that it's either alcohol or it's cocaine or it's a drug or it's a behavior. And so we automatically think that instead of really recognizing that it's not about sex, that it is a form of medicating our pain and medicating our trauma and really trying to escape some negative feelings, and it's all wrapped up in that, instead of it just being that, ooh, somebody likes to have a lot of. A lot of sex and that makes them a sex addict.

Well, it may be helpful to think about other process addictions as a way to understand that, because if you were to say that someone has a really difficult time with food and even considers they have a food addiction, it's easy to recognize it's not because they're so hungry. And the problem is they just need so much food and it's a food problem. In that case, you'd easily see, well, obviously they're using the food to medicate something deeper or it's become part of how they feel good or just their negative patterns. And so if you could take that same mindset into sex addiction, it's not that someone just has such high testosterone levels or such a high sex drive. And I think in particular, this episode might be really helpful for spouses that do feel like, well, maybe they just Have a super high sex drive, and if only I could help satisfy that or meet all his needs or meet all her needs. And it's about the sex. And so if a couple's focused on that, it can really be destructive to their attempts at recovery because they're actually focusing on the thing that is contributing to the addiction. So it really is a way to see, okay, there's a lot more going on here, which can, I think, help both parties, if it's in a relationship, take a deep breath and say, okay, what do we need to address to really move towards health? Because it's also. It's not that it's not about sex. I mean, you still are going to need to deal with the desires and the pleasures, because sexual climax has an obvious payoff that makes it appealing. Just like food tastes good and gambling provides a rush. And all the things that we can get stuck on, they do have an element that we are drawn to, but it's not really what's driving the behavior. And that's what I hope, as we bust this myth, that it's really going to help people see the reality behind that.

Well, and I think, too, it's just super easy and natural to go right to the fruit of something rather than to the root. Right. At church, just not that long ago, we were reading a book called Gospel Fluency, and it's the idea of if you want to change the fruit, you have to go to the root. It can't just be like, you can't take off an apple from an apple tree and then tie a pear to it, and then all of a sudden it's a pear tree. Like, it doesn't work that way. It has to be all the way down to the root. And so I think this is a problem, I think with a lot of. I know for me as a believer growing up, you just focus on your actions and stopping the behavior rather than getting onto what's motivating those or what I believe that's motivating those. And so I think it's very easy and very natur to get into the place where you think sexual addiction must be about sex. And that doesn't make you wrong or foolish that you think that we just have to understand that the fruit is not dictated by what we put on the outside. Right. It's what's going on on the inside that motivates it.

Right.

And that it really is a symptom of something that's going on, not the problem. Yeah, absolutely. So then culturally, when it comes to other Cultural perspectives about sex addiction. What are those other beliefs that kind of help drive this idea? Sexual addiction is really about sex.

Yeah. When you look at what is happening, I think in our culture and in the world in general, there are a lot of ideals and thoughts about sex and our need for sex that I think contribute to this. A couple that came to mind for me as I was thinking about this question, just human nature right now believes that sex is a need. We've taken it kind of out of the want or something that's a pleasurable thing that we could have and it's now just become a basic human necessity. And you see that, I think portrayed in Hollywood, you see it on social media that that's just assumed to be something a person will need to have regularly in order to be a human being. And if that's our belief, then then the draw towards sex is just seen as something as natural as food and air and. But as a good friend of ours who travels and speaks at our events always likes to say, you know, if you don't have sex, you won't die. Right. You know, it's not a need. But there can be that unexpressed belief maybe in our thinking that says it, I just have to have it. Which then continues putting us in that place of acting out. I think another one tied to that is an ideal we see that says more sex equals more life. That the person who's having more sex has a better life, a more enjoyable life. And again, we're seeing this portrayed in movies and social media and places that make it seem like this, this standard we want to run after. But all the research and studies seems to suggest there's, there's not a correlation that, that having more sex doesn't equal necessary, more life. Now it can be in a healthy relationship, it can be a very good thing, obviously, but it also can be very empty. It can be a very self perpetuating system that leaves us wanting more, but satisfying us less. And so we have to be aware of that thought pattern. And then the last one that came to mind for me is the way that we have linked our sexuality to our identity so strongly that a person feels like if I have a lot of sex or if I have a lot of sex appeal, then I'm valuable and I have worth and I'm that, that becomes who I am. Which conversely in our culture someone can feel like, well, if I don't have sex or if I'm not very appealing to people sexually, then I don't have value. And so when you. When you have those thoughts, maybe in the back of our minds that are going unaddressed as kind of a false belief, well, those are obviously going to lead us into sex. And so there's. There's just a whole lot of thought patterns like that. We need to pause and say, where does this idea come from? Where do I really get this thought or this belief that it's a need or that it's who I am or that'll give me more life? And if we address some of those false beliefs, then I think we really can address what's really going on below the surface here.

I think, too, there's, you know, thinking culturally that even so recently, I'll just admit it, on the podcast, me and my wife watch the Bachelor and Bachelorette, and we were watching this last season, and one of the things, this Bachelorette, who is the contestant, the main contestant, professed to be a believer and talked about the importance of sexual compatibility. And I think that that's something culturally, even in the church, that's starting to become this thing where I have to make sure that, like, this person makes me feel good or sex is, like, good with this person before we get married or, you know, try it before you buy it. Right. It's like a trial run or a test drive. And in reality, that's not the way God set up sex, where that's. It's not about how good it is, it's about the connection that's taking place. And so I think that in that there's just a. Basically, the priorities or the. The paradigm, in the view of sex in a relationship is out of whack. And then another thing, too, and this is kind of stemming from my years as a youth pastor, understanding that kids are consistently hearing about the sex that their friends are having or the porn that they're watching. And there's this element of peer pressure that in order for me to fit in culturally, I have to watch porn, I have to have sex, I have to mess around with boyfriend or girlfriend. And I think that what ends up happening is there's that pressure to fit in. And then as I'm trying to fit in and try to basically make friends and be friends with these people and for them to accept me, I end up walking myself into an addiction and something that I'm much more dependent on than I thought I was. So I think compatibility and peer pressure are a couple things from my end.

Yeah. And I think that there's also this idea that when you talk about sexual addiction and really trying to have, like, for us at Pure Desire, we're trying to encourage people to have healthy sex. But I think that as a Christian organization, it can come across as that we're anti sex or that, you know, it's a conservative Christian.

We are not.

We're not. But that it's a conservative Christian viewpoint. Instead of looking at, you know, even secularly, you know, Dr. Patrick Carnes, who's a leading expert, he's been studying this since the 1980s, you know, and he was the first one to recognize that. That this was an unhealthy behavior, you know, being addicted to sex or porn or any of those things that go along with this. And so I think that that is. Is another way that that culturally people think that, oh, well, you're just saying control my behavior, you know. And then also I think there's the social stigma of it. There's this labeling process, especially if someone has gone to jail or prison because of their behaviors. And, and I think that that, that tends to, I don't know, end up with judgment instead of empathy or instead of recognizing that that person too is. Is acting like they're just a pervert.

That's what it is. Like that's their problem. Yep.

And. And it's not even about that. It's just the way that their brokenness manifests itself. And so I think that that's another, you know, cultural idea that's out there that kind of confuses this idea.

Right. So let's get into what it's about. So what is sexual addiction about? What motivates it?

So it really is a process of medicating our pain. And we've talked about that. It's just that it is someone's, you know, they're using sex or pornography or some form of sexual gratification to. To really medicate an unpleasant feeling. And like you had said, Nick, you brought up the idea of food. You know, when people overeat, they don't have a tendency to say that I'm doing this because someone hurt my feelings or something in this moment is bringing back a painful emotion. And I'm trying to avoid that. They don't link those two things together. And instead we kind of deceive ourselves and we say, well, I just love food and I just lack self control. Instead of trying to really analyze the. Or understand that these two things go together because of something that happened in our world at some time where we took a painful event, whether that was trauma or even, you know, something that someone said or, or anything, and we Linked an emotion that was a painful emotion. And that really our addictive behavior is that we're trying to avoid that same or similar feeling that just is showing up when we least expect it most of the time.

Yeah, yeah. I remember saying in my early years of struggling with sexual addiction and not understanding that connection or the process that I would talk about to a close friend or mensch when I was able to be open to say, well, I feel like I just have an addictive personality and I just have to be more careful. And as you go through recovery and you meet a lot of people, you realize, I think we all have addictive personalities. Our brains are made to gravitate towards what makes us feel good. Because we're designed by God and we talk about this at our events, that it's God's brilliant design that we by nature avoid pain and gravitate to pleasure. I mean, it's what keeps us alive. But you can see how easily that system gets hijacked for evil in our lives and for unwanted outcomes. So the thing that I see is that acting out sexually or using pornography, that all of those become a convenient place to solve the negative core beliefs we have. So if we're struggling with a negative core belief that says, I feel unwanted. Well, in any kind of fantasy or pornography, we always feel wanted. If we struggle with feeling disrespected, we come up with a fantasy life or a way of acting out sexually that makes us feel like we're the king and we're respected and everyone wants us to be around. And so it's just this really easy, powerful delivery system that is the opposite of whatever we're struggling with or even the, you know, the person that says, why I'm just bored? Well, it's much more than that, because boredom is usually a place where we feel like there's nothing exciting in my life or no one wants to hang out with me. And so, boy, fill up that gap with pornography or sex and suddenly you take care of boredom. Well, at least for, you know, a little bit of time, it doesn't last. But that's the appeal of whatever my negative core beliefs are that I'm battling. It's the easy answer. And I just so agree with you, Heather, that until we connect, those do. Because what I found in my story, it wasn't always a moment to moment connection that it may occur over the course of a few hours or maybe even a few days where the unwanted emotion or the core beliefs would lead to that behavior. So it becomes easy to kind of Separate it and not see the connection. But when we start to recognize the connection, I really feel that's where healing begins.

Yeah, I think something too. I guess this is important to distinguish in my mind that it's not what happened necessarily that motivates. It's how I felt. You're talking about feelings, and that can look different. So just at a recent event, was in a Q and A and was talking about how growing up, I felt like my perspective didn't matter. And I felt like I. And this is. I'm not bashing my family. There were just moments in my childhood where I felt like my perspective didn't matter. How I felt wasn't important. And then I overthrew through my recovery. I've worked on that, and I've figured out some ways to find healing there. But then I have a kid who is consistently making sure I feel like my perspective is not important or how I feel not valid. And he's not doing anything. I mean, is he being sinful? Sure. Like, we all are. Me too. Right? Exactly. But what I'm getting at is, like, those two things made me feel the same way. And that feeling is what's motivating me. It's not my son that's motivating me to move into addiction, health, or unhealth. And it's not what happened as a child that is pushing me there. It's that feeling that I have that's motivating it. And we talk a lot about that, that it is going down to that core belief. And so I think for the listeners out there, just understand that what causes you to feel that way and that desire to numb out may look different and manifest in different ways in your life.

Right. And that's so good to remember that it is a behavior that is completely fueled by a feeling, and that's so important.

It just occurs to me as I hear you guys talking, it might be helpful to just interject for a spouse who's maybe listening to this and starting to feel maybe defensive or defeated, like, oh, they're just going to blame all their problems on these childhood memories or these unwanted emotions that. So the little interjection I just want to make is that we're not in any way saying then that it's okay that you struggle or to just be like, well, I can't help, but I had a rough childhood. Or what we're really trying to, I think, help process is when you see all the deeper things, when you see everything that connects to it, you understand why healing and change Is a process, why it's going to take an investment of time, why you'll need other people around you, and why you can't just make a decision to stop and stop because there's so much, so much contributing to it. So it's not in any way meant for the addict or the one struggling to just be able to say, hey, I don't have to be responsible, which is kind of an addiction as a disease kind of model of, well, I just have this disease, and it's not really my fault. So we're not saying that. We're trying to get into the factors that really drive addiction. And so if sexual addiction isn't about sex, what does it look like to find freedom from addiction?

Okay, so love that Sometimes it happens when you're reading something that is for a totally different reason, and you get stuff that's like, oh, wow, this fits exactly into. Yeah, so I'm reading a book now that's talking about the idea of really developing skill in something. And it's just this, what's going on in your brain when you learn. And we talk a lot about that, about the neurological, like roadmap or highways that we end up creating if we do something over and over again. And the idea I was reading about, it was talking about geniuses and savants. It was talking about all this different stuff. And one of the things that was mentioned in the book is the idea that you can't unlearn habits. That's not how you break habits. You break habits by creating new ones. And we talk about that a lot. And was just having a conversation this morning, too, about, really that idea of taking off the old man and putting on the new. It's not just stopping behavior. It's creating new ones in that place. And so I think, you know, the reason why our groups are so focused on meeting consistently and doing that recovery work is you're creating new habits on how to process the same information that's happening in life. So it's not that I am addressing how to handle it when my son disobeys me or does something that makes me feel like my perspective doesn't matter. It's putting the practice and work in and creating the guardrails and the tools that I'm equipped to know exactly what to do to move forward in health when that happens with my kids. So it's that idea of creating new behaviors and new habits and doing those over and over and over and over again so that I'm creating another highway toward health rather than toward unhealthy. And so that's just been something for me. Even practically, just even hearing that language has helped me even bring more clarity to what's been happening in my life, where when Brady does something like that, I'm not responding and wanting to move forward. In unhealth, I've learned to identify in the moment or shortly after that moment happens. I give myself a 30 minute window probably to be like, okay, this is why I feel this way. It's because it's triggering something, that it's a wound for me and the wound necessarily won't go away. But how I manage that wound and how I respond in health rather than unhealth is how you change.

Does your son Brady know that he's like a regular illustration on the podcast.

Or so in like, in like 10 years, right? In 10 years he's going to realize how much over the Internet he was.

There's all these people that know you from your childhood.

Well, I think that it's too one of those things that we have to be ready to dig in and dig deep. And a lot of people who are caught up in addictive behaviors, they recognize that, okay, it probably does come from somewhere in my past, but there's no way that I'm gonna go back there, you know, and they think that, why can't I just start now, today and just forward motion and get healthy? Because it's gonna show its ugly face anytime unless you deal with it. Unless you're willing to go back and discover, you know, what was it in that moment that caused you to feel a certain way and feel that and then be able to own that and then move forward, which I think then also includes that whole awareness piece. And like you were saying, Nick, that it's not just based on that exact acting out behavior, but it's what was it that in the last few hours or the last few days has led up to this behavior that's now causing me to feel something and then wanting to act out?

Yeah, I so totally agree. And I remember when I started the counseling process that I was resistant to this idea that it was about past stuff. And I remember asking the counselor, I said, couldn't it just be that I'm drawn to beautiful women? And I like the feeling and the pleasure and I just need to deal with that. And the explanation I was given was really helpful because he said, it may be that that's where it started. And there's certainly reality of pleasure and what we're drawn to. But the reason you can't stop or the reason it's become addictive is because somewhere that was fused with how you dealt with unwanted emotions or the pain in your life. So it's not just that. It's either or. It's. It's the both. And that those two things contribute together, that somewhere along the line, your pain got fused to this way of finding pleasure. And so it is true that maybe you're drawn to those images or you're drawn to what you've been watching. And, yeah, that's part of it. But the reason you keep going back in spite of the pain or your desire to change is because of how it's been fused to those early memories and experiences. And so I think about, if we want to change our story, we need to be fully aware of where the story begins. We need to be able to go back and look at childhood stuff, early teenage years, and start to see our life almost like being an investigator of our own life, to look at the clues and to be a sleuth, to say, well, this happened and this occurred, and how did those things in my life get fused together? I'd recommend a resource that we've talked about on this podcast before, and that's Jay Stringer's book Unwanted. Because I think it really just creates a clear pathway for someone to start to see, how does my unwanted behavior connect to all those unwanted emotions and the ways I've learned to deal with them? So if someone else is listening, feeling like I was, isn't it just about that I like how this feels and I like the rush to pick up that book and read it, because I think it'll start to connect those dots in a way that you say, oh, the roots and the fruits go together. And if I'm going to change, I need to address both.

Yeah, I think, too, like, the church just. I mean, I can tell you I don't remember a time where growing up in the church that feelings were identified as something that's okay. It's like, there's truth and then there's your feelings, and we separate the two. And, like, I mean, I'm just going to be blunt. Like, God created us to have a left side and a right side of our brains. One is logical and pays attention to truth and fact, and the other is emotion. And they are together, one brain. Like, that's the way it's set up. And so I think that we need to get to an understanding, whether it's personally in our community, in our churches, or in the culture, especially around the idea of Being a believer in Christ is that that's the way it was set up. And our emotions are not inherently evil or wrong or bad. I have a pastor friend of mine who's counseled us and has said that your body doesn't lie. The idea of when you have an emotional response, that's not a negative thing or a bad thing. Your body doesn't lie to you. You know, if you have trauma and something triggers that and you freak out, you need to pay attention to what your body's telling you. And if that means that you have to get out of that situation, then do it. And so I think that we need to make sure that we understand that feelings and em and truth and logic are all together, and that's the way God has set it up.

That is so good.

Okay, so really this question is going to be motivated more on how we help other people see this myth, how we communicate it, how we share it with other people. So with the myth that sexual addiction is about sex, how do we communicate that? It is a myth and it's not true.

Yeah. So at pure desire, it really is one of those things that we promote, that sex is part of who we are. Our sexuality is God designed. God designed sex. And really we want to figure out what that looks like. To live in health, to have a lifestyle of health. That really is from God's design, from that original template. I think that that is something that really can encourage people, especially if they grew up in an environment where they learned that sex is bad, sex is evil. We don't talk about it. We don't. You know what I mean? It has all these negative things about it. Instead of saying this, it's not bad, it's great. It's God's design. So I think that that's a great way.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think too, just what we've been talking about in helping people understand that they are more than just a byproduct of their behaviors. And I think everyone can kind of embrace that. That. Yeah, I'm far more than just my behaviors. So to encourage people to look below the waterline. Yeah. Behaviors are what you can see and might be what's driving you to want to change. But below the waterline are your thoughts and feelings, the things that motivate you to behave the way you do. And even below that are those core beliefs and the ways that you view yourself, the beliefs you hold about God. And we're not talking theological beliefs. We're not just talking knowledge based. Well, here's what I know It's. It's those core beliefs where we assign value and identity to things and recognizing that all of us, because we're broken people that have been born into a broken, sinful world, we have faults and cracks and flaws in those core beliefs that then drive thoughts and emotions that lead to behaviors. And I think when we can just explain. We use the iceberg illustration a lot. When someone just recognizes, oh, maybe all the work I've been doing to try to change is above the waterline. It's all about stopping a behavior. And they see that there's a whole lot more work that can be done below the water line. And again, that doesn't mean you stop worrying about the behavior. You're working on them together. But when you see, just like an iceberg, that there's even more below the water than above, I think it can actually give a person hope to say, maybe that's why I haven't changed. Maybe that's why I keep going back to that behavior, because there's all these things I haven't addressed. And so just kind of talking through that dynamic, I think could open someone up to a new level of change or a way of approaching their behaviors.

Yeah, I think, too, just sharing your story is so important, I think. You know, I think about conversations I had when I was early on in recovery, and then even ones I. I've had now with people who are further back in their recovery than I am is just that idea of when you actually say, here's what happened and here's what's motivating me, and here's how I used to act out and now how I'm trying to move forward in health. I mean, I remember how just mind blowing it was for me when someone could identify what was really at the root of what had just happened and what's actually motivating them. And it was like, oh, my gosh, am I ever gonna have that amount of self awareness? You know, and it's possible if you do the work and pay attention. But I think a way to invite people into this conversation in general is through your story. Then also, you know, the only way to debunk a myth or something or a legend like that is to honestly, I think, is from sharing from experience. And so I think that for me, that's a way that I would encourage anybody, if you want to help someone understand this is a myth, is to share your experience. And it's important that both. Both people in the experience share it. So I'm talking about a betrayed spouse or Someone who's hurt because of someone in their life that's addicted or struggling, and also someone who's struggling sharing that truth. Because I think that really, this myth, we've talked about it and alluded to it a little already in this episode, is that a betrayed spouse will look at this and feel differently about the topic than someone who's struggling. And so both sides, we have to get that full picture of what really is at the core of this issue.

And it really does have to happen in that group experience, you know, of just being able to. Absolutely, yeah. Being able to share your story in a safe environment, but also with other people who know what you're talking about and who can empathize, who can say, I've been there. I know what that feels like. And they're not just saying it. They. They really do know what it feels like. And that's so healing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's super important wherever you're at, that understanding how to properly address this issue is key for anyone. Getting freedom for anyone. Getting healing. And that has to come with educating yourself. It has to be something where you're doing really self care and self exploration to figure out what's going on under the surface, surrounding yourself with people who are a lot smarter than you, who've been down the road of recovery, and really just equipping yourself with that. So we hope that this episode of Mythbusters has helped you today, and we just pray that we continue to do these episodes and really get down to what's true and what's motivating all this behavior.

Yeah, it's good stuff. You know, I was just thinking to throw this in at the end. If sex addiction was about sex, then having more sex would fix it. And that's what we hear so often, is that having more sex didn't heal people. They might be grateful for it or thankful that it's in their relationship, but it wasn't their healing. That's where that fact alone should go. Oh, there's a lot more here. And I hope this episode takes people to those deeper places, because the other thing I'd say with it, it is when we go to those deeper places, not only does it help us address our sexual addiction, but we find it helps us address everything else. Our patterns of selfishness, the ways we isolate, the ways we hurt people. You see that it's all connected. And that, to me, is what's so exciting and life giving about this journey, is I'm not just trying to fix one part of my life. It's actually a way that the Holy Spirit can take us into all of the stuff that he wants to work on and we can really see some change start to take place.

Yeah, this has been good guys. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

Hope people get a lot out of it. Thanks Trevor.

Yeah, this is fun.

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